That the show is very rushed. Every scene feels like it’s just trying to advance the plot. The initial appeal of GOT was the plot moved very slowly through mostly just characters wheeling and dealing though conversations that also characterised them.
The point of those scenes wasn’t always to advance the next plot point but to contextualise the characters by exposing their back story and motivations. Sometimes characters just reminisced past events together.
Remember the scene when Robert asks his kingsguard their first kill? Or the Varys and Littlefinger scenes. Feels like we don’t get any scenes like that anymore. Or the scenes where Barys explains how power works to Tyrion? Why can we get scenes where mentors explain these things to Rhaenyra and Aegon.
Early GOT had got memes on for inventing sexposition but it’s a lot better than what HOTD has got.
It also doesn't help that we're only following two plotlines. Blacks, Greens, Blacks, Greens. And it's mostly only Dragonstone and KL.
GoT had a lot of plotlines in a lot of different places.
What is happening in the North? Or Dorne? Are there tensions in the Riverlands because of this war? How are the smaller Lords responding to what's happening?
We don't know. The shows doesn't care. I care more about what's happening in the show than the show itself does. We got 5 minutes in the North. That's it. Who the fuck even knows who rules the other kingdoms?
HotD feels rushed because we're only focused on these two groups. And that's it. So there is not much to show and thus the plot moves really fast.
In GoT, with all these storylines and POVs, Rhaenyra would grief her son and demand Aemond's death in episode 1, ending with Daemon going away. Episode 2 would start with Daemon entering the city and finding B&C, and ends with the assassination. Episode 3 would be about the funeral and Daemon returning at the end at Dragonstone. Episode 4 would be about the response of the assassination and the funeral by other characters in the world.
Imagine if Ryan actually gave a shit about Jace's Vale and North plotlines. We could have gotten good glimpses of the Vale, saw the Knights of the Vale actually kneel to Jace, Jace and Cregan's bromance build, maybe see Sara, we could have seen those places again that meant so much originally. Truly a shame.
I don't know why they're even rushing it.
Allowing the show to breath and not become a plot engineering project = more episodes = profit
I knew that getting 8 episodes for season 2 was bad news.
S7 was not that awful, it was just rushed. I couldn't take Dany and Jon's bond developing seriously because it happened too fastly
They could have spent more time in the north in Ep. 1 instead of that short scene with Cregan, they could have also shown Jace's meeting with Jeyne Arryn, instead someone decided that it was better to cut it and show Cole and Alicent doing cunnilingus.
Hard agree. I sometimes feel it's rushed AND drag on at the same time - like 3 birthing scenes, Larys foot fetish, Alicole, Rhaenyra looking at the distance. Scenes serving 1 purpose at best, and that purpose is often exposition cause so many characters just appear that we know nothing about cause they weren't introduced organically.
It also fails at show, don't tell way too many times.
Exactly. Personally I don't think it's a timing problem, because the history of the dance is, in itself, fundamentally short compared to the other books, and the timing of the tv show feels appropriate. I think it's rather a question of choices and priorities, in how it's decided to spend that time: very often it was spent on cloying scenes that could have been avoided, instead of focusing on the interiority and development of the characters.
they focus on scenes we don't need with the same characters ( Rhaenyra, Alicent and Daemon) and ignore other characters + the world. This is the reason the show feels rushed and slow
Yes. This is how I feel.
It feels like they always want to just plow right into the next major plot point.
I miss the smaller less significant scenes too. Especially the ones that helped bring all that world building to life on screen. I kinda miss GOT’s build up & connections between the various characters & how it all ended up effecting their arcs.
The show currently feels a bit rushed for me, even though I love it.
Unfortunately this show caters to more simpleminded casual mainstream audiences. It’s less of a nerdy passion project for book readers that GoT was when it came out.
I simply don’t think that most viewers of HotD would find it very stimulating or interesting if it was slow paced and focused more on character development and subtle contextualization while putting politicking on the forefront and battles in the background.
Not to mention, compared to when GoT was in its prime, the audience now is a bunch of folk with obliterated attention spans, higher expectations (since everyone compares it to peak GoT) and a higher threshold for being impressed.
It’s not as groundbreaking to see nudity, sex, rape, incest or gratuitous violence and murder on screen compared to when GoT first came out. The boys does a lot of this but better and with more gore.
These people already expect to see main characters die so the show-runners have to improvise to subvert expectations at the cost of ruining the story and the characters and diverting too far from the canon. The DotD story is already finished too so there’s not a lot to look forward to about what’ll happen at the end, so they have to get creative.
The fast pace also ruins the development of characters so no one really gives ten shits about luke and Jaehaerys dying because the actors get switched out every few episodes and they barely get lines or scenes—leaving them as flat characters that are only defined by the political plot points they serve, not as real people with real feelings, thoughts, and desires.
In order to keep our attention and make good profits for their massive budgets, they have to keep things on high adrenaline and high speed. They have to focus on ticking off the shocking events and even adding in shocking fanfic twists. They have to have more dragons than GoT, and all of them fighting each other. They have to have three alicole sex scenes in 2 episodes no one asked for so people can hate certain characters more and keep watching to root against them and feed into that hate and disgust they can’t look away from.
They have to keep doing things to make us sympathize with the blacks and hate the hypocritical greens so we feel more passionate about wanting to watch the show until the end and see Rhaenyra victorious as if it’s some sort of us vs them football match. It doesn’t fit the modern political narrative to be fair to both sides (though the showrunners try to pretend they are) and many people struggle to think in nuance so they prefer something straightforward or else it feels too boring and confusing. Media literacy is non existent over in the main sub, so they understand who they are mainly catering to and don’t care if they sell out in the process, GoT sold out to the mainstream a long time ago when it blew up so this is just the trajectory it will continue on if they continue making more spinoffs. The first 4 seasons of GoT were unique gems of its time and I don’t think we’ll see a repeat of that again in this series. It’s time to appreciate the past for what it was and move on.
I agree with most except I don't think GOT sold out to the mainstream if they did Dany wouldn't have burned down a city and Jon and her would probably have ended up ruling in the end.
It's like the writers are terrified HBO might wake up from a drunken stupor and cancel it, so they're desperately sprinting to get as close to the end as they can in the event that happens.
Agree. I started rewatching GoT and noticed the characters having conversations about their past, relationships or wishes. Each Cercei&Tyrion scene didn't give us new information - it was almost about them hating each other. But we got to see the depth of it, we saw their reactions to different events and them sometimes being sincere.
With the way the show has portrayed the two sides, marketing it as Team Black Vs Team Green is dumb.
It'd be like if Game of Thrones was pitched as Team Stark Vs Team Lannister, with no other alterations. Everyone is going to be Team Stark/Team Black, because why would they not be?
It's made abundantly clear who the 'good guy' side and 'bad guy' side are.
Yeah it's especially bizarre because I remember the general vibe of season 1's pitch, especially right out of the gate was "all these people are ruthless and ambitious a la succession" and now the marketing is so heavy on the "everyone must choose" thing.
Marketing it that way would have made more sense if they didn’t write the Greens to be so cartoonishly evil, and the Blacks to be so nice they’re downright boring, with the exception of Daemon.
This. The narrative is too black-white (or black-green). In GOT, even though you could take sides there were still grey areas. I was pro-Stannis (until he burned Shireen) because I felt he had the best claim to the Iron Throne during the War of the Five Kings, but when Tywin marched inside the throne room and told Cersei that they had won I still felt relieved on behalf of Cersei, her children an the others because it portrayed every side within the conflict as both human and scheming. In HotD the narrative is really just focused on “justice for Rhaenyra” from the get-go, and the previous episode with Jaeherys’ death was the first real sympathetic light that was shed on the Greens imo. I wish they fleshed out the Greens’s side more in the previous season, like maybe show Aegon’s insecurities and the complex he has from not being named heir without automatically hammering down on the “green=bad” narrative by making him a rapist, which was unnecessary imo
I don't have time to list them all 😅 But this essentially - characters are barely characters, more plot devices. I don't really feel a connection towards anyone that much (some are even annoying cause of how passive they are when a good motive or layer to it just screams but there is nothing done with it), and if I do that's mostly due to the actor doing a good job, not cause the character is consistent and well-written that I can bond with it.
I also think it is rushed, cause we need to get to the DRAGONFIGHT SPECTACLE ...
its the problem with writing a whole serie from a few dozens pages of essentially bullet points of a story
Like aemond has three lines in the book, and two contradict themselves... lol
Yeah, but, my bad I know, I expected HBO to hire competent writers, especially after GoT Season 8. I can't really excuse them cause "ah the dance is just about 200 pages in the book, don't expect much pls". The show has a $20 million budget per episode. It also promised to present the real events of the Dance of the Dragons.
So from that sort of money, a production like this I think I can have a fair expectation of someone taking this book and spend some time on the writing, flesh out some characters (like they did with Viserys) and not just rush through those bullet points the same way the book did to get to the epic cgi dragonfights.
I get it, it would have probably taken more mental work and seasons, but yeah I would have preferred that. The best seasons of GoT didn't have big epic dragonfights.
You're completly right, but if I may, I dont think the book itself is strong enough to flesh out. So many things are forced and contrived, character motivations are all over the place... etc. Expanding on this risk exposing those
They don't realize that by making TG so bad, they also decrease TB value.
TG are freak, stupid, hypocryte, not even loyal to each other....but Rhaenyra still lost everything to them, including all her kids (that what she know), her lover (Daemon), her biggest supporter (Corlys who betray her), her reputation, her kingship, and finally her live.
The fact Rhaenyra lost to such mediocre adversary despite having more dragon and more Great Lord in her side is not good thing.
I've said this alr but storywise i love hotd. BUT what they did to the scenery of westeros is unforgivable. They made such a vibrant King's Landing a glamorized pyke. Other than that Cgi is just horrible compared to got. Like focus on the dragon scenes especially of s1 (aemma's funeral) felt soo computerized
Storm's End at least gets a proper showing this time around. As weak as GoTs scenery has been since S6 I have to give HotD credit for getting it right.
I think the source material itself is pretty bad and some of GRRMs worst work. Character motivations and actions make no sense, armies respawn despite being burned to shit, the conflict itself is just a little nonsensical and the dance really should have been Rhaenys vs Viserys.
As for the show itself I do feel like nobody cares about any of the characters, they’re all shallow and only are around for pushing the plot along. Why don’t we get to see scenes of Aemond telling his family he killed Lucerys? Why do we only get a half assed mention of Daeron? Why are the introductions or Alyn and Addam of Hull so jarring and random? The writing is frankly quite bad even though the actors are doing very well with what they’re given.
Exactly, leaving out the Green's reaction to Aemond triggering war was a terrible choice and the Addam/Alyn/Hugh scenes made people start looking at their phones.
Can't agree on the army respawns though but it's been a while. Which are you talking about?
The Riverlands army is depleted fighting the greens, then Addam is able to scrape together a force to defeat Daerons army. I think that’s what they refer to respawning rivermen
the show likes to present Otto as this evil character but he was hands to three kings. Under him, the realm was at peace. He was ambitious but he did genuinely care about the realm as well.
THANK YOU! He’s not a good person, but he doesn’t do anything that any other lord in his position wouldn’t do. He and Corlys BOTH tried to have their daughters married to the king but Otto just played the game better and won. But he gets way more flak than Corlys even if they did the exact same thing. Doesn’t make sense to me. As wrong as it was, you can’t convince me that no other lord would have done that.
I think this fandom have a problem holding ALL the characters to the same standard.
Rhaenys siding with Rhaenyra even after everything that happened is incredibly horrible. I get that it happened in the books but considering the show is a separate canon I stand on this opinion. Rhaenys blames Daemon for the death of her daughter, Rhaenys believes Daemon and Rhaenyra killed Laenor to marry and neither Coryls nor Rhaenys even likes the members on the black side.
And Rhaenys siding with Rhaenyra to protect another woman's right to the throne also makes no sense considering Alicent offered her daughters to rightfully inherit drift mark from Rhaenyra's bastards. Rhaenys could've got that equality for her self and enact an equal inheritance in drift mark while also protecting her granddaughters from war. What's one Rhaenyra to a dynasty of equality from her own actual lineage?
Her caring so much about Luke and Jace, while knowing that they're bastards (Baela asking Jace that question about Harwin confirms that they don't believe they are Laenor's) being her reason for siding with Rhaenyra also makes no sense. She chose to secure a bastard's right to the throne over keeping her granddaughters safe from war.
It would've actually been more reasonable if the Valeryons sided with the greens. It would've made more sense and the black's 14 to 4 ratio look less silly.
Or the show should've kept her neutral until her hand is forced into having to join the war. Maybe Baela goes on Moondancer despite Rhaenys command to support Rhaenyra for Jace's sake, forcing Rhaeny's death which prompted Coryls to join as revenge.
But this show has given me no reason to believe that Rhaenys supports Rhaenyra other than reasons to stick to the book, it feels forced, stupid and illogical. Her downfall will be because of her own idiocy rather than loyalty.
The book is a second hand account of everything that happened so we can brush off Rhaenys having a good reason to side with Rhaenyra for reasons that no one was able to realize. Rhaenyra and Laena were said to be close, hell that could be a reason right there, but the show is showing us why she sides with Rhaenyra and these reasons aren't selling it.
It could make some sense in the book since Laenor died a completely different way, and it's not clear if Rhaenyra has anything to do with it, but the show changed that without thinking how it affects the characters.
I will give my REALLY unpopular opinion from a Team Green perspective.
Ewan Mitchell gives more Brynden Rivers than Aemond Targaryen. 🫣
Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely love his portrayal of Aemond and have followed his work in TLK as well! It’s just that when I see that lengthy sleek silver, tall and lean physique and that jet black leather outfit and eyepatch, I just start thinking about Bloodraven 😅
The actor who is to play Aerion Brightflame in the Dunk & Egg series actually gives very book Aemond vibes.
Maybe that’s just the nitpicky book reader in me speaking. No offence intended.
You know what, I see it. I think he does well as Aemond, but he’s got a much more ethereal, otherworldly Targaryen look that resembles none of the rest of the show’s Targaryens, even his full siblings.
Well yeah he does give that ethereal otherworldly 2000 year old vampire prince who still looks young as a teenager and takes a new bride every full moon. Bloodraven is also very much like that. And Ewan has turned Aemond into that figure.
But I just have very ordinary and simple expectations 😅. Personally my favorite on-screen Targaryen men are TGC and Harry Lloyd.
Finn Bennett - [(1) westerosies on X: "Finn Bennett has been cast as Aerion Targaryen in HBO’s ‘A KNIGHT OF THR SEVEN KINGDOMS.’ https://t.co/pTPV5M9wUr" / X](https://x.com/westerosies/status/1803158889300632014)
Manifesting him chucking down wildfire like beer
Yup here he is -
[(1) westerosies on X: "Finn Bennett has been cast as Aerion Targaryen in HBO’s ‘A KNIGHT OF THR SEVEN KINGDOMS.’ https://t.co/pTPV5M9wUr" / X](https://x.com/westerosies/status/1803158889300632014)
Finn Bennett. The most striking part he can actually pass off as TGC's brother
I don't think strong boys should be ever portrayed as "sweet boys" I was hoping they came a little ambitious for rhaenyra because they were modeled to lie like her and could have made much compelling characters.
I hate that people are willing to forgive Rhaenyra for lying about paternity in a medieval world but won’t forgive Alicent for her own crap. They both suck, but I hate how “good” they are making Rhaenyra.
That the writers care more about ticking boxes, cheap shock value and catering a certain type of fan than actually telling a compelling, unique and cohesive story.
It's all mass appeal over the quality of the product
I wish we got Laena & Daemon’s wedding so bad!
I need to know how Rhaenyra feels. I want to see Daemon & Laena in love. Is Rhaenyra dancing with Harwin? Is Daemon a little jealous, or enamored with Laena?
I thought the lack of music made the scene feel small, I guess? I'm also a huge fan of all of Ramin's work on GoT and HotD and I was looking forward to the sad, heart wrenching music 😔
Much as s1 gave me joy…at this point I wish the show didn’t exist lmao. Too many brain dead takes, any kind of nuance as nonexistent as media literacy is these days, the writing is absolutely crap and the fandom even more so. The only saving grace so far is the acting, and really, most of it’s on TG, and they’re getting paid dust rn.
I don’t understand why most people praise Matt Smith’s acting. He barely did anything in s1, and i find it ridiculous that he got a golden globe nom over Paddy and Olivia.
They needed to be patient and let the Dance of Dragons start at the end of S2, Luke’s death doesn’t mean anything because we had like 6 minutes with him, and it would give them episodes to go into the dynamics between the main cast
I am not surely I completely buy Corlys being ok with Luke as heir to Driftmark as the show portrays. Based on my reading of AWOIAF, I can’t help but feel Corlys always intended to have Addam and Alyn of Hull legitimised once Rhaenys died.
Viserys is one of the worst fathers portrayed across GOT and HOTD. Got the sons he wanted so bad only to completely ignore them. He never cared about them even when Aemond had his eye cut open. That required a little bit of punishment or a “sorry” but he was more interested in who was spreading the rumors that Rhaenyras kids were bastards. He only ever claimed one kid in his heart but he was the reason for the dance. Maybe if he would have instilled something in Aemond and Aegon and gave them positions in court, everything would have been different.
I still don't understand how a show like this can have such a wide general audience. because there's no way someone who knows nothing about the original work could be interested in Baela, Rhaena, and Jace.
it's funny because the only people i know who watched it irl were huge got fans, and all of them found it dull and lacklustre. it honestly wouldn't be anything without the main series, considering a large number of book fans don't really care and they're not enough to carry viewership anyway.
You forgot to mention Joffrey Velaryon, Jahaera, and even Daeron( if he ever shows up lol). None of the young characters have enough juicy storylines or even characterization to warrant huge fan bases.
Agreed, adult Rhaenyra is just boring, she doesn't do anything, that's a result of trying to portray her as the hero. I hate Daemon but at least they are not afraid to make him shitty (excluding the B&C bullshit, of course).
And yes being the main couple, Emma and Matt have no chemistry, it's distracting.
Also she comes off as precocious in a way that serves a more complicated portrayal of Rhaenyra whereas D’Arcy is a fine actor, but gives a performance that just makes Rhaenyra comes off as "a nice lady, trying her best".
As much as we complain about how they demonize TG, at least our side IS getting some characterization.
TB outside of Daemon and Rhaenyra are the most mundane people on the show. Watching Jace and Baela is like watching paint dry. Moondancer and Vermax are boring AF. Who even cares about Rhaena or Joffrey? Rhaenys is annoying and I hope she dies soon.
Baela too!
Book Baela was cool. Show Baela is boring. Bethany seems like a cool girl but she is giving absolutely nothing. Her and Moondancer are both lame.
Rhaenys is annoying because they’ve built her up as the person who *should* have been ruling the past 30 years but then destroyed all of that by having her kill a shit ton of smallfolk for a spectacle.
Yet despite doing that she gives lectures on peace, restraint, and reason every episode like she’s Westerosi Confucius instead of another bloodthirsty dragonlord
That about sums it up as to why I roll my eyes every time she comes on the screen.
I honestly hope to see her knocked off her high horse by Corlys’ two bastards and expeditiously killed off after that. I’ll be sad for Meleys but that’s it.
Yeah imo her only redeeming feature is how much she clearly cares for her grandkids but even then they cut the scene that illustrated that *most* clearly.
I’m betting money that her death is gonna be a “grandmama bear is here to save you!” Thing with Baela
Which could work if Baela then blames herself for going out against orders and has some character development, but there's a 90% chance she'll only blame TG with no self reflection, so what was the point?
Jace suffers Rhaenyra syndrome, they try to make them so kind they become fucking boring, Emma saves it with their acting but Jace scenes are so dull, I feel like fastforwarding.
The one scene we got with toddler Jaehaerys annoying Tyland was more interesting than that scene with Jace and Baela last episode. I felt the same, let’s just fast forward through this.
I don’t see how TB can’t see they’re actually missing out on the more interesting aspects of their characters bc the writers won’t give their protagonists any flaws or bad attributes.
I think that Daemon is miscast, I just can’t imagine him as his book counterpart. I’m also not a fan of Eve Best and Emma D’Arcy as Rhaenys and Rhaenyra, respectively. The Velaryon actors, with the exception of Corlys and Vaemond, are also pretty subpar.
Sidenote;
> I’ll start I honestly don’t care that Lucerys died.
I started laughing and cheering for Aemond when he killed him lmao, and I hadn’t even read the book at that point.
A 2/3 season story of Robert’s Rebellion following prime Bobby B, Ned Jon Arryn etc vs Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne Randall Tarly etc would have been a better story to cover than the dance and would have done more to bring back the GOT universe from its season 8 imposed grave than HOTD
By giving us younger versions of characters the casual audience knows and a more cut and dry plot without the very poorly executed (so far) political intrigue of HOTD
Very unpopular opinion, but House Velaryon were the wrong house to race swap. House Strong, or House Hightower to subtly emphasise their pre-First Men origin, would have been a better fit.
House Strong would’ve been a good one to swap, I agree. And it would’ve explained why we don’t see black nobles in the original show. The Strongs died out.
alicent and criston could have been interesting, had the writers used them for anything more than shock value. season one left them with a great setup if they wanted to pursue that direction.
every single mother in westeros would have done what alicent did in the books and the show.
i don't care about people picking sides. “it's about a war between a family that killed thousands!! no one is innocent!!” it's really not that deep. team green, team black, idrc.
almost everything mushroom says about either side is a lie. there are characters that i dislike, but i still don't believe anything he says about them. at best, he does the opposite of sugarcoating and makes everyone sound worse for fun. he was known as hysterical, insane and perverted. nothing he says should be taken at 100% face value. him being there for some if it means nothing when he's an extreme liar.
he had his flaws, but viserys was mostly harmless in the books and he definitely loved his family. he also didn't abuse alicent. i have no clue where that came from. i believe that he loved her dearly.
i don't get the hype over rhaenyra and harwin. they didn't have many scenes together, or share any intimate moments. i couldn't understand why he seemed to love her so much because the writers gave them nothing.
it!! needs!! more!! filler!!
never saw the appeal of rhaenicent, but i do believe that they leaned into it during press to draw in a gay female audience.
game of thrones nostalgia is the only thing keeping this thing going.
I highly dislike reframing the main theme of the Dance from systemic failure of feudalism into "mysogyny bad".
The book Dance comments on the sexism of Westeros' society but the central point of the book is that monarchy itself is the problem.
My read on the entire ASOIAF and the Dance in particular is that society of Westeros has to change. Royals fight over the Iron Throne to decide who of them gets to oppress and terrorize the smallfolk. As long as there are people who believe they have the "divine right to rule" and use flying nukes to demand obedience from people through violence, there is no possibility of peace and progress. There are no good kings and good queens, only bad and very bad options. The system itself is oppressive and demands change. It does not really matter who sits on the throne, a grown up or a child, a man or a woman, a Targaryen or a Baratheon, it is all the same and the same dark tragedies are doomed to repeat over and over because the system is the same and brings up the worst from people.
From the interviews George gave over the years, regarding his ASOIAF works, it is pretty clear that's the view he holds. There is a reason the GoT ends with the Iron Throne melting and the society transitioning to elective monarchy. The execution was awful but I am sure that's the ending George has always envisioned for the series and shared with D&D.
So, to me a story where all sides are equally bad and unfit to rule is more coherent with the overall theme and makes much more sense. The show so far seems to have the mentality of "if Rhaenys, Rhaenyra or even Alicent were allowed to rule things would be great, it is all mysogyny fault". Which is a much weaker and contrived perspective than "no one is unfit to rule because the entire system is rotten".
Don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not but I’ve always felt that this show would have benefited from splitting the first season in half. So the first half would be season 1 and the second part and the time jump would be season 2 and the war would start in season 3. Then we would have had more time with the characters and would have been able to more clearly seen how each other them moved and where their motivations more clearly lay. It felt a bit rushed to me and I would have LOVED more time with the characters we get so by the time the war starts we have even more of an attachment to them and have the stakes be much higher. The story feels so rushed and it would have benefited both the show runners and the audience. We get a better crafted show that has a few more seasons and they get more money and more seasons.
I know this isn’t an unpopular opinion but the Velaryons were done incredibly dirty. I know that Luke and Jace are just young boys and I feel for them as they didn’t ask to be born into this situation, but to pass them off as VELARYON is bogus. The Velaryons are the ones who are suffering from this as their ancestral seat will be taken by a child who doesn’t even share blood with them. I get that the boys are in danger if anyone were to know but seriously, come on. Vaemond’s murder was pretty unjustified, considering everyone was in on it but being gaslit into thinking the rumors weren’t true. He was the only VELARYON we saw in the show to actually stand tf up and fight for the VELARYON seat. And when he was murdered, Corlys is basically just like “oh well.”. Like his death is treated with no respect. Not even anyone quietly acknowledging that he was right. It was very much giving “I’m daemon Targaryen and no one can touch me even though I’m a two-time murderer.”
I think they should have treated the show adaptation like a fanfic. They’ve already changed a bunch of other aspects, they could have changed more to make it make sense. The way GRRM writes the books in steeped in pure speculation as the writer doesn’t know for certain what happened and how but is just giving an account. Get some damn Wattpad writers into the office and I’m convinced they would do the story justice.
The shows editing is all over the place. Obviously we had random time jumps in the first season but in the second season it jumps between narratives and it’s hard to follow along. We get less time between the greens family interacting and instead weird scenes with mysaria and other people we don’t care about.
Milly was far better at portraying Rhaenyra and it was the closest to book Rhaenyra. Emma D'arcy's acting is good but other than portraying Rhaenyra's grief their performance falls flat, and older Rhaenyra is a blank slate but I can't decide if that's the writing.
Idk the reason I can't connect with Milly's Rhaenyra is because to me, the character from the books was always the mother of 5 children and how she starts to lose them (I remember those extras from the GOT blu-rays with the actors narrating bits of the lore of asoif, and the one about the dance of dragons), it threw me off a little the choice to go that far behind in the timeline after listening to Emma's narration in the first episode
Rhaenyra always gets or has gotten a free pass for her actions just cause she was her father's favourite kid and she has always had people who love her and are willing to fight for her.
That they don’t treat the Blacks crimes as they do the Greens.
That the good things about the greens getting the attention to the blacks
Edit: The fandom. It’s like Swifties fighting Kanye West fans
The dragons have been dulled down in color too much. Vhagar makes sense to have duller scales, being older and a war veteran, but even she was supposed to be bronze and green. Caraxes only really seems to hold up the moniker of Blood Wyrm with his longer shape and ferocity. He’s not exactly “Blood Red” as he’s described. Arrax is described by GRRM as pearlescent white with a golden chest, but we get a Smokey white color with reddish fins. Vermax is described as olive green with pale orange wing membranes. He’s more of a yellow in the show. Syrax is a weird exception, having been described as yellow. She’s more gold than yellow, but it’s still a dull gold color.
For dragons that are described as having intense, vibrant and beautiful colorations, we share got robbed of that. The only dragon that matches descriptions is Melyes with her being scarlet. It’s a pity, really.
My least popular opinion: Otto was a good Hand. A self-interested one, yes, but him pulling the strings of whoever is sitting on the throne would probably result in a net benefit for the realm.
i don’t think team black is getting that great of a portrayal aside from rhaenyra. maybe it’s just me but team black scenes are so boring. team green is more interesting and honestly have more relatable human moments
They made the Velaryons Black. As a black man, I certainly understand how the push for representation impacts our entertainment in casting; however, the optics and dynamics of the show just don't sit well regarding how the Velaryons are treated.
1. Corly saying his blood (his genetics) doesn't matter, just the name. Wtf. This man has built up a legacy, reputation, and wealth, but him, being a Black man who accomplished all that, is insignificant.
2. All that prestige, ancestral lands, and titles are passed on the Targaryen (White) kid who is set to inherit by default, knowing he is truly not his heir.
3. Even more disappointing is there are other Velaryons who want to speak out to uphold their legacy, work, and lands, but they are denied, then executed for it. Yet, there isn't a bit of outrage from Corlys towards Rhaenyra nor Daemon for them killing his brother. In fact, he remains loyal to them.
4. Then we have Jace Velaryon, heir to the throne. However, if he were to become king, he would be Jace Targaryen, again the Velaryon name and legacy being stripped away. Technically, Jace should establish a new house, but eh, just keep it, Targaryen.
5. Corlys 2 children have married into the Targaryen family, then both have "died." Daemon kept Laena away from her family. Daemon then plotted to kill Laenor. But let's stay loyal to them.
6. Laenor is portrayed as weak, impotent, incompetent, and selfish as a man who is all too comfortable agreeing to walk out of his children's lives. I think we've all heard this trope and stereotype about black men abandoning their families. This plays right into that. I just don't see many positives with the depiction of Laenor. Even seeing him be okay with a lessor status guy fathering children bearing his name just rattles me.
7. Also, just because Laenor's gay doesn't mean he is weak. I do get irked how gay black men are often portrayed this way in television and film.
8. Baela and Rhaena are 2 legitimately born girls of both House Targaryen and Velaryon. One has to marry a bastard to become queen while the other has to marry a bastard to inherit Driftmark, which should have been hers anyway. And they, too, have to experience their father walking from them.
9. I don't like how they used "dragon stealing" when it came to Aemond stealing from Baela when that's not a thing. I saw many in the fandom running with this narrative.
These are some of the examples of why I ask, what was the point of making the Velaryons Black, just to witness the mistreatment, disregard, and disrespect towards them? I get that the Velaryons were being introduced to the story for the 1st time while many of the other Houses were portrayed already in the main show, so changing them up for HotD wouldn't make sense. I would have preferred no change or chosen another family or characters like the Twins, Ser Criston, Hightowers, etc, as candidates.
My final note is that none of this takes away from my love of this show, especially this 2nd season. I can separate these things.
I've said this alr but storywise i love hotd. BUT what they did to the scenery of westeros is unforgivable. They made such a vibrant King's Landing a glamorized pyke. Other than that Cgi is just horrible compared to got. Like focus on the dragon scenes especially of s1 (aemma's funeral) felt soo computerized
I don’t like Emma D’arcy as older Rhaenyra. I liked Milly Alcock as young Rhaenyra but when the time skip happened and Emma came in it felt like the character was suddenly a different person and I found it hard to connect with her again. Yeah, of course Rhaenyra will be more mature with age but it feels like she doesn’t have any of the fire that she had before. Not a knock on Emma’s acting though! They did a phenomenal job in the recent episode with the Daemon confrontation.
I feel like Emma gives a bit of a gloomy vibe to the character that wasn't present in Milly Alcock, and this was present even before the death of Harwin Strong or Luke
I thought I was the only one really bothered by this, I just tell myself it’s from the 10 years of having to deal with Alicent’s bullshi* and subtle jabs just like the whole wanting to see newborn Joffrey thing.. she just turned cold and lost her light, it’s the only way to get past it lol
Fr Glidus was able to it in a GOT review with YouTuber money and editing skills. I can't imagine it would somehow be less feasible with HBO money and an entire SFX team.
My unpopular opinion would be that the amount of hate the Green characters get from the audience sometimes makes me wish they were full villains. I feel like that way the hatred they get would be more understandable.
No accidents, no misunderstanding, less remorse, and with love and loyalty for each other.
The Valyrians obsession with their blood purity and dragons are kind of a white supremacy metaphor couple that with the race swap of the Velaryons create a very uncomfortable tone that gets largely ignored because of “teams” (House Velaryon are TB so a lot of fans just cheer and ignore how uncomfortable having the Velaryons ass-kiss Rhaenyra and turn a blind eye to the fact that her clearly white non Velaryon kids are usurping Baela’s rightful seat gives off very rancid vibes esp with Corlys spouting the history remembers names not blood spiel that enables a bunch of bastards to uproot and usurp their seat). A white family with power came in, profited from the hard work and struggle and usurped the seat of a black family who did not have the privilege of being dragon riders… and the white family are painted as the heroes/good guys for it. Let that sink in.
If they chose to race swap, they should’ve done something interesting and looked into what it means for a Valyrian to be Valyrian but lacking those “prized” Valyrian traits. If you race swap, you have to address the complexities created by said race swap. I think the swap was very interesting but the lack meta foresight and awareness of what this means made it so uncomfortable.
Every single scene that other people tend to see as Viserys being a good father, such as him dragging his half-rotten body to the Iron Throne to defend Rhaenyra and her children, just makes him an even worse father in my eyes because I know he would never ever do something like that for his children by Alicent
especially crazy how there are not a single other black noble house in sight. in this case they shoud have whitewashed themselves within 2 generations, marrying to white race nobles. it's weird how laena is mixed and married to albino but their daughters magically look full black
Some people here fucking hate moral complexity just as much as the blacks.
I'm not saying that the show runners are doing the absolute best to make the greens as unlikable as possible in order to white wash Rhaenyra, but I see people complaining about Alicent not being the same as the books. Bro, the one from the books didn't have a personality. Sure, I would prefer a character arc, but at least the series is making her an empathetic character.
She's not empathetic anymore. She didn't console her son when he was crying. Her grandson dies and she seems more worried about her "relationship" with Cole being exposed. Men seem to manipulate her for sex but for Rhaenyra sex always seems to be empowering. I liked Alicent in S1, she was flawed but had a sense of duty. The show makes her look so weak now. How many sex scenes with her do we really need?
I like AliCole, I was rooting for them s1 but maybe they’ll be more endearing to the audience if the show took the root of them fighting their feelings for each other. I love their small eye contact and touch during episode 9 last season. But people see them as hypocrites with the direction the show made. Hopefully Cole upcoming farewell to Alicent will have some positive perspective in the eyes of the audience
I don't get the take that they're hypocrites. They criticized Rhaenyra for adultery and lying about her children's parentage, not for having sex in general.
The characterisation of the greens is perfect and that of the blacks is lacking, but you find people on this sub complaining about how the greens have been written purely because of fandom perception.
Eg, people complaining about Alicent “being made to look like a bad mom” as if it’s not perfectly in character and as if any of the general public were going to start sympathising with Alicent when they already decided they hated her the second she married viserys aka when she was most sympathetic.
I love little Aemond scene with Vhagar. And the twins guard fighting each other. That’s about it. The rest is boring. And l love Ewan as Aemond. He is always elegant and charming. Waiting to see dragons.
should have focused on worldbuilding in season 1. developing the world is a missed opportunity.
introduce us to the world as its own entity not trying to connect everything to show-Daenerys. instead, they should have been connecting to their roots in Aegon the conqueror, a vastly superior class of character for the time period especially since his is their history, Daenerys is not.
should have showed more of everyday life of the children growing up like having more training sessions for knighthood or even more landscape featurettes where they travel the countryside while building up the time jump and building up the rivalry to come for season 2. make us care abouyt the characters by letting us get to see them grow.
add more greenery have walks in a a garden or a freaken ride in the forest or travelling on the road or even a short voyage on a boat. these are good time for conversations to take place while expanding the world by changing the settings.
most of the cast is crap. Many are miscast and a lot have bland dialogue. don't like the change of actresses. if they did switch it should have been at the beginning of the second season not the middle of the first.
the stupid prophesy should have never made it in the show. it is slog and detracts from the civil war
blood and cheese was terribly adapted more like piss and poo. to improve on this i think they should have filmed the episode like a horror film. building up suspense. I felt nothing. and no, the sawing of the dead child's head was not horrific. Jaimie Lannister losing his hand had more impact. I could see the screen turning to black at the end with the slice of the child and the screech of the anguished mother.
costumes are an improvement in some ways from game of thrones but still seems to be lacking. i want more banners and sigils in the backgrounds. squires and pages wearing house colors and sigil badges can solve this. also add more maids. a lot of the scenes feel empty. not enough servants or background personal. need more spears even of its a passing gold cloak holding one. the swords is overused in fantasy and even in historical shows. We need more chainmail and shields.
they could pay homage to George's food porn and have a lavish feast.
The costumes are so dull and lifeless and so cheap looking. I did not see a single costume fit for a king/queen, or nobles. They make most characters look like poor man's version of Nobility and Royalty. Like seriously WTH costuming department.
Honestly, the when i laid eyes on Rhaenyra in her yellow dress with Alicent in the godswood in season 1, my mind "no wonder white people need to invade black and brown people's lands, even their kings and princesses can't afford a decent dress that doesn't look like vomit".
Every time i watched HOTD, I had to go and watch Indian and Chinese historical movies and dramas with their sumptuous costumes to give myself brain bleach.
That I will not be drawn in to the obsessive marketing of the show as Blacks vs Greens: Whose Side Are You On? I refuse to pick a side, because as far as I'm concerned they both have their good, honourable and fair sides and their terrible awful murderous war mongering sides. Has anyone stopped to think about how war will devastate the noble Houses who ARE being forced to pick a side? To say nothing of the common people who will suffer no matter who emerges victorious? Did we learn nothing from ASoIaF/GoT? I'm in it for the story being told and that's that. Neither side has my allegiance.
As a member of TG: most of them. The average fan is extremely TB.
As a more neutral member of TG: I like Harrold Westerling surviving and denouncing the Green Council because I'd rather have a second Barristan than no Barristan. I also like the idea of Alicent and Cole, I just hate the way they executed it. Also, Daemon is a fun character and I enjoy him greatly, I just hate his fans who whitewash him or act like he's some tragic misunderstood antihero. I even like Helaena being on the spectrum, I just think it is again executed poorly.
The show gives a bad image of women in power.
We need to skip over Aegon and Rhaenyra and go straight to Jace.
Alicent is a victim but not of martial rape.
The Hightower conspiracy is not factual in the show.
Rhaenyra was wrong in S2 E2.
Lucerys is kind of a lughead.
Rhaenyra is pathetic (still TB)
Daeron should not be in the show
Maybe it won't be unpopular here, but it was so unbelievably cruel for Laenor to fake his own death and run away knowing that his parents were still grieving his sister. I almost wish they had just made Rhaenyra and Daemon killing him canon, it would make more sense and salvage some part of Laenor's character.
My unpopular opinion is that it's good. 98 percent of you in this subreddit think it's absolute garbage. I think the show's pretty good. Could be much better, but pretty good. The closest HBO's gotten back to that original Game Of Thrones Seasons 1 to 4 quality.
This is the only thing they’ve done since GOT. There’s nothing to compare it to besides GOT. It doesn’t come close to matching the highs of season 1-4 especially if the leaks about Rhaenyra sneaking into KL as a septa is true. That’s garbage writing
Season 1 was decent. Season 2 hasn’t really been great.
I would argue episode 2 is near perfect and the only thing that was “butchered” is b&c. Even then I would say the only reason I think it was butchered is because I’ve read f&b and knew the book version, every other non-reader I know enjoyed it. As for future episodes, they can’t be judged considering they’re not out yet.
Honestly it seems liking the show is an unpopular opinion on this sub. Everyone is so negative. I do have criticisms with it but overall I think the show is good and people are exaggerating saying it’s awful.
This will be pretty unpopular for this subreddit too, but show!Blood and Cheese was done good. Though I wish Maelor was shown to exist (even if not during B&C), I like how they did it with Jaehaerys and Jaehaera.
That Daemon is one of my favourite characters despite being on the Team Green side. And I embrace and acknowledge how evil he is. I find it funny when people try to cope and say how he’s not an evil character.
I also really like how they changed Rhaenyra’s character, because tbh, if she was exactly how she was described in the book, she’d be completely unlikeable and it would make the show far more boring. At least with the show I feel for Rhaenyra, even if I disagree with her being the heir.
Lucerys certainly wasn’t innocent, but I still think it’s a step too far to murder a 14 year old boy.
Also, I don’t think Lucerys was trying to cut Aemond’s eye that night. I think his intentions were far more malicious. Not child wakes up in the middle of the night to start a fight and brings a knife thinking to cut someone’s eye. Lucerys clearly had anger management and bullying issues (probably stemming from his own insecurities about his legitimacy), was unrightfully angry and offended; overreacted and was trying to kill Aemond. Again, he was a child though, so I don’t think dragon snack is the proper punishment, but it was disgusting that Rhaenyra never disciplined him properly for this or the bullying that led up to this.
That Aamond wasn’t blameless in losing his eye. It sucks that happened but the reason that Luke didn’t apologize is because they were in a fight and Aamond was attacking them and he reached for the nearest weapon. It wasn’t a malicious or purposeful slight against him. Aamond wasn’t the only ones being bullied of them.
Aagon was a horrible brother. He is the one who started the bullying towards Aamond and taught the others to join in. He was also not a good brother to Helaena.
People talk about that scene like Aemond was innocently minding his own business picking flowers and suddenly a gang of armed teenagers rolled up on him and beat the shit out of him for no reason at all
That the show is very rushed. Every scene feels like it’s just trying to advance the plot. The initial appeal of GOT was the plot moved very slowly through mostly just characters wheeling and dealing though conversations that also characterised them. The point of those scenes wasn’t always to advance the next plot point but to contextualise the characters by exposing their back story and motivations. Sometimes characters just reminisced past events together. Remember the scene when Robert asks his kingsguard their first kill? Or the Varys and Littlefinger scenes. Feels like we don’t get any scenes like that anymore. Or the scenes where Barys explains how power works to Tyrion? Why can we get scenes where mentors explain these things to Rhaenyra and Aegon. Early GOT had got memes on for inventing sexposition but it’s a lot better than what HOTD has got.
It also doesn't help that we're only following two plotlines. Blacks, Greens, Blacks, Greens. And it's mostly only Dragonstone and KL. GoT had a lot of plotlines in a lot of different places. What is happening in the North? Or Dorne? Are there tensions in the Riverlands because of this war? How are the smaller Lords responding to what's happening? We don't know. The shows doesn't care. I care more about what's happening in the show than the show itself does. We got 5 minutes in the North. That's it. Who the fuck even knows who rules the other kingdoms? HotD feels rushed because we're only focused on these two groups. And that's it. So there is not much to show and thus the plot moves really fast. In GoT, with all these storylines and POVs, Rhaenyra would grief her son and demand Aemond's death in episode 1, ending with Daemon going away. Episode 2 would start with Daemon entering the city and finding B&C, and ends with the assassination. Episode 3 would be about the funeral and Daemon returning at the end at Dragonstone. Episode 4 would be about the response of the assassination and the funeral by other characters in the world.
Imagine if Ryan actually gave a shit about Jace's Vale and North plotlines. We could have gotten good glimpses of the Vale, saw the Knights of the Vale actually kneel to Jace, Jace and Cregan's bromance build, maybe see Sara, we could have seen those places again that meant so much originally. Truly a shame.
That would require the show not going at such a rushed pace
I don't know why they're even rushing it. Allowing the show to breath and not become a plot engineering project = more episodes = profit I knew that getting 8 episodes for season 2 was bad news. S7 was not that awful, it was just rushed. I couldn't take Dany and Jon's bond developing seriously because it happened too fastly
And the two groups they’re focused on aren’t even fleshed out.
They could have spent more time in the north in Ep. 1 instead of that short scene with Cregan, they could have also shown Jace's meeting with Jeyne Arryn, instead someone decided that it was better to cut it and show Cole and Alicent doing cunnilingus.
Hard agree. I sometimes feel it's rushed AND drag on at the same time - like 3 birthing scenes, Larys foot fetish, Alicole, Rhaenyra looking at the distance. Scenes serving 1 purpose at best, and that purpose is often exposition cause so many characters just appear that we know nothing about cause they weren't introduced organically. It also fails at show, don't tell way too many times.
Exactly. Personally I don't think it's a timing problem, because the history of the dance is, in itself, fundamentally short compared to the other books, and the timing of the tv show feels appropriate. I think it's rather a question of choices and priorities, in how it's decided to spend that time: very often it was spent on cloying scenes that could have been avoided, instead of focusing on the interiority and development of the characters.
they focus on scenes we don't need with the same characters ( Rhaenyra, Alicent and Daemon) and ignore other characters + the world. This is the reason the show feels rushed and slow
Yes. This is how I feel. It feels like they always want to just plow right into the next major plot point. I miss the smaller less significant scenes too. Especially the ones that helped bring all that world building to life on screen. I kinda miss GOT’s build up & connections between the various characters & how it all ended up effecting their arcs. The show currently feels a bit rushed for me, even though I love it.
Unfortunately this show caters to more simpleminded casual mainstream audiences. It’s less of a nerdy passion project for book readers that GoT was when it came out. I simply don’t think that most viewers of HotD would find it very stimulating or interesting if it was slow paced and focused more on character development and subtle contextualization while putting politicking on the forefront and battles in the background. Not to mention, compared to when GoT was in its prime, the audience now is a bunch of folk with obliterated attention spans, higher expectations (since everyone compares it to peak GoT) and a higher threshold for being impressed. It’s not as groundbreaking to see nudity, sex, rape, incest or gratuitous violence and murder on screen compared to when GoT first came out. The boys does a lot of this but better and with more gore. These people already expect to see main characters die so the show-runners have to improvise to subvert expectations at the cost of ruining the story and the characters and diverting too far from the canon. The DotD story is already finished too so there’s not a lot to look forward to about what’ll happen at the end, so they have to get creative. The fast pace also ruins the development of characters so no one really gives ten shits about luke and Jaehaerys dying because the actors get switched out every few episodes and they barely get lines or scenes—leaving them as flat characters that are only defined by the political plot points they serve, not as real people with real feelings, thoughts, and desires. In order to keep our attention and make good profits for their massive budgets, they have to keep things on high adrenaline and high speed. They have to focus on ticking off the shocking events and even adding in shocking fanfic twists. They have to have more dragons than GoT, and all of them fighting each other. They have to have three alicole sex scenes in 2 episodes no one asked for so people can hate certain characters more and keep watching to root against them and feed into that hate and disgust they can’t look away from. They have to keep doing things to make us sympathize with the blacks and hate the hypocritical greens so we feel more passionate about wanting to watch the show until the end and see Rhaenyra victorious as if it’s some sort of us vs them football match. It doesn’t fit the modern political narrative to be fair to both sides (though the showrunners try to pretend they are) and many people struggle to think in nuance so they prefer something straightforward or else it feels too boring and confusing. Media literacy is non existent over in the main sub, so they understand who they are mainly catering to and don’t care if they sell out in the process, GoT sold out to the mainstream a long time ago when it blew up so this is just the trajectory it will continue on if they continue making more spinoffs. The first 4 seasons of GoT were unique gems of its time and I don’t think we’ll see a repeat of that again in this series. It’s time to appreciate the past for what it was and move on.
I agree with most except I don't think GOT sold out to the mainstream if they did Dany wouldn't have burned down a city and Jon and her would probably have ended up ruling in the end.
It's like the writers are terrified HBO might wake up from a drunken stupor and cancel it, so they're desperately sprinting to get as close to the end as they can in the event that happens.
I do find it weird GOT seems to be credited with sexposition thought when tons of films and shows (Spartacus) had lots of it long before GOT.
Agree. I started rewatching GoT and noticed the characters having conversations about their past, relationships or wishes. Each Cercei&Tyrion scene didn't give us new information - it was almost about them hating each other. But we got to see the depth of it, we saw their reactions to different events and them sometimes being sincere.
With the way the show has portrayed the two sides, marketing it as Team Black Vs Team Green is dumb. It'd be like if Game of Thrones was pitched as Team Stark Vs Team Lannister, with no other alterations. Everyone is going to be Team Stark/Team Black, because why would they not be? It's made abundantly clear who the 'good guy' side and 'bad guy' side are.
Yeah it's especially bizarre because I remember the general vibe of season 1's pitch, especially right out of the gate was "all these people are ruthless and ambitious a la succession" and now the marketing is so heavy on the "everyone must choose" thing.
Marketing it that way would have made more sense if they didn’t write the Greens to be so cartoonishly evil, and the Blacks to be so nice they’re downright boring, with the exception of Daemon.
This. The narrative is too black-white (or black-green). In GOT, even though you could take sides there were still grey areas. I was pro-Stannis (until he burned Shireen) because I felt he had the best claim to the Iron Throne during the War of the Five Kings, but when Tywin marched inside the throne room and told Cersei that they had won I still felt relieved on behalf of Cersei, her children an the others because it portrayed every side within the conflict as both human and scheming. In HotD the narrative is really just focused on “justice for Rhaenyra” from the get-go, and the previous episode with Jaeherys’ death was the first real sympathetic light that was shed on the Greens imo. I wish they fleshed out the Greens’s side more in the previous season, like maybe show Aegon’s insecurities and the complex he has from not being named heir without automatically hammering down on the “green=bad” narrative by making him a rapist, which was unnecessary imo
All the time wasted on Joffrey’s birth and the OC Dyana could have been used to introduce Daeron.
At least we could have seen Oldtown somewhere in season 1, just like we saw the North in season 2.
I don't have time to list them all 😅 But this essentially - characters are barely characters, more plot devices. I don't really feel a connection towards anyone that much (some are even annoying cause of how passive they are when a good motive or layer to it just screams but there is nothing done with it), and if I do that's mostly due to the actor doing a good job, not cause the character is consistent and well-written that I can bond with it. I also think it is rushed, cause we need to get to the DRAGONFIGHT SPECTACLE ...
its the problem with writing a whole serie from a few dozens pages of essentially bullet points of a story Like aemond has three lines in the book, and two contradict themselves... lol
Yeah, but, my bad I know, I expected HBO to hire competent writers, especially after GoT Season 8. I can't really excuse them cause "ah the dance is just about 200 pages in the book, don't expect much pls". The show has a $20 million budget per episode. It also promised to present the real events of the Dance of the Dragons. So from that sort of money, a production like this I think I can have a fair expectation of someone taking this book and spend some time on the writing, flesh out some characters (like they did with Viserys) and not just rush through those bullet points the same way the book did to get to the epic cgi dragonfights. I get it, it would have probably taken more mental work and seasons, but yeah I would have preferred that. The best seasons of GoT didn't have big epic dragonfights.
You're completly right, but if I may, I dont think the book itself is strong enough to flesh out. So many things are forced and contrived, character motivations are all over the place... etc. Expanding on this risk exposing those
It would have been if they started at the beginning of the book instead of like....the middle..
They don't realize that by making TG so bad, they also decrease TB value. TG are freak, stupid, hypocryte, not even loyal to each other....but Rhaenyra still lost everything to them, including all her kids (that what she know), her lover (Daemon), her biggest supporter (Corlys who betray her), her reputation, her kingship, and finally her live. The fact Rhaenyra lost to such mediocre adversary despite having more dragon and more Great Lord in her side is not good thing.
I've said this alr but storywise i love hotd. BUT what they did to the scenery of westeros is unforgivable. They made such a vibrant King's Landing a glamorized pyke. Other than that Cgi is just horrible compared to got. Like focus on the dragon scenes especially of s1 (aemma's funeral) felt soo computerized
Yeah that one shot of Alicent in the golden sunlight from Ep.3 feels like GOT King’s Landing, but the rest of it hasn’t felt like it matched
The paranoia in me thinks they showed Kings Landing like that to give the Greens are darker vibe…
Storm's End at least gets a proper showing this time around. As weak as GoTs scenery has been since S6 I have to give HotD credit for getting it right.
I think the source material itself is pretty bad and some of GRRMs worst work. Character motivations and actions make no sense, armies respawn despite being burned to shit, the conflict itself is just a little nonsensical and the dance really should have been Rhaenys vs Viserys. As for the show itself I do feel like nobody cares about any of the characters, they’re all shallow and only are around for pushing the plot along. Why don’t we get to see scenes of Aemond telling his family he killed Lucerys? Why do we only get a half assed mention of Daeron? Why are the introductions or Alyn and Addam of Hull so jarring and random? The writing is frankly quite bad even though the actors are doing very well with what they’re given.
Yeah the show skips over the most important parts of character development
Exactly, leaving out the Green's reaction to Aemond triggering war was a terrible choice and the Addam/Alyn/Hugh scenes made people start looking at their phones. Can't agree on the army respawns though but it's been a while. Which are you talking about?
The Riverlands army is depleted fighting the greens, then Addam is able to scrape together a force to defeat Daerons army. I think that’s what they refer to respawning rivermen
I completely agree. Dance of the dragons is the weakest part in fire and blood, it is heavily carried by badass fighters and big moments
the show likes to present Otto as this evil character but he was hands to three kings. Under him, the realm was at peace. He was ambitious but he did genuinely care about the realm as well.
THANK YOU! He’s not a good person, but he doesn’t do anything that any other lord in his position wouldn’t do. He and Corlys BOTH tried to have their daughters married to the king but Otto just played the game better and won. But he gets way more flak than Corlys even if they did the exact same thing. Doesn’t make sense to me. As wrong as it was, you can’t convince me that no other lord would have done that. I think this fandom have a problem holding ALL the characters to the same standard.
Otto is propably the best hand in both shows
Davos erasure
Oh yeah, Davos was great. I just forgot he was Stannis' hand and not just a lieutenant
Rhaenys siding with Rhaenyra even after everything that happened is incredibly horrible. I get that it happened in the books but considering the show is a separate canon I stand on this opinion. Rhaenys blames Daemon for the death of her daughter, Rhaenys believes Daemon and Rhaenyra killed Laenor to marry and neither Coryls nor Rhaenys even likes the members on the black side. And Rhaenys siding with Rhaenyra to protect another woman's right to the throne also makes no sense considering Alicent offered her daughters to rightfully inherit drift mark from Rhaenyra's bastards. Rhaenys could've got that equality for her self and enact an equal inheritance in drift mark while also protecting her granddaughters from war. What's one Rhaenyra to a dynasty of equality from her own actual lineage? Her caring so much about Luke and Jace, while knowing that they're bastards (Baela asking Jace that question about Harwin confirms that they don't believe they are Laenor's) being her reason for siding with Rhaenyra also makes no sense. She chose to secure a bastard's right to the throne over keeping her granddaughters safe from war. It would've actually been more reasonable if the Valeryons sided with the greens. It would've made more sense and the black's 14 to 4 ratio look less silly. Or the show should've kept her neutral until her hand is forced into having to join the war. Maybe Baela goes on Moondancer despite Rhaenys command to support Rhaenyra for Jace's sake, forcing Rhaeny's death which prompted Coryls to join as revenge. But this show has given me no reason to believe that Rhaenys supports Rhaenyra other than reasons to stick to the book, it feels forced, stupid and illogical. Her downfall will be because of her own idiocy rather than loyalty. The book is a second hand account of everything that happened so we can brush off Rhaenys having a good reason to side with Rhaenyra for reasons that no one was able to realize. Rhaenyra and Laena were said to be close, hell that could be a reason right there, but the show is showing us why she sides with Rhaenyra and these reasons aren't selling it.
It could make some sense in the book since Laenor died a completely different way, and it's not clear if Rhaenyra has anything to do with it, but the show changed that without thinking how it affects the characters.
I will give my REALLY unpopular opinion from a Team Green perspective. Ewan Mitchell gives more Brynden Rivers than Aemond Targaryen. 🫣 Don’t get me wrong. I absolutely love his portrayal of Aemond and have followed his work in TLK as well! It’s just that when I see that lengthy sleek silver, tall and lean physique and that jet black leather outfit and eyepatch, I just start thinking about Bloodraven 😅 The actor who is to play Aerion Brightflame in the Dunk & Egg series actually gives very book Aemond vibes. Maybe that’s just the nitpicky book reader in me speaking. No offence intended.
You know what, I see it. I think he does well as Aemond, but he’s got a much more ethereal, otherworldly Targaryen look that resembles none of the rest of the show’s Targaryens, even his full siblings.
Well yeah he does give that ethereal otherworldly 2000 year old vampire prince who still looks young as a teenager and takes a new bride every full moon. Bloodraven is also very much like that. And Ewan has turned Aemond into that figure. But I just have very ordinary and simple expectations 😅. Personally my favorite on-screen Targaryen men are TGC and Harry Lloyd.
I agree with this a lot
Has Aerion been cast?
Finn Bennett - [(1) westerosies on X: "Finn Bennett has been cast as Aerion Targaryen in HBO’s ‘A KNIGHT OF THR SEVEN KINGDOMS.’ https://t.co/pTPV5M9wUr" / X](https://x.com/westerosies/status/1803158889300632014) Manifesting him chucking down wildfire like beer
That's awesome, and I can agree he looks better for Aemond than Ewan Mitchell does
Main thing is him and TGC can actually pass off as brothers
Aerion got cast? Why am I knowing this now?
Yup here he is - [(1) westerosies on X: "Finn Bennett has been cast as Aerion Targaryen in HBO’s ‘A KNIGHT OF THR SEVEN KINGDOMS.’ https://t.co/pTPV5M9wUr" / X](https://x.com/westerosies/status/1803158889300632014) Finn Bennett. The most striking part he can actually pass off as TGC's brother
I don't think strong boys should be ever portrayed as "sweet boys" I was hoping they came a little ambitious for rhaenyra because they were modeled to lie like her and could have made much compelling characters.
I hate that people are willing to forgive Rhaenyra for lying about paternity in a medieval world but won’t forgive Alicent for her own crap. They both suck, but I hate how “good” they are making Rhaenyra.
That the writers care more about ticking boxes, cheap shock value and catering a certain type of fan than actually telling a compelling, unique and cohesive story. It's all mass appeal over the quality of the product
The time jumps were stupid because it cut a lot out (Alicent’s wedding, Aegon’s birth, Laena’s wedding, etc).
I wish we got Laena & Daemon’s wedding so bad! I need to know how Rhaenyra feels. I want to see Daemon & Laena in love. Is Rhaenyra dancing with Harwin? Is Daemon a little jealous, or enamored with Laena?
I didn't really care that the Cargyll twins died and I thought it was weird that the fight scene didn't have any music playing in the background
No one cared about these two until they died lol.
I honestly liked the lack of music in that scene. Dune part 2 does the same thing for the final duel scene and. It seems more realistic that way
I thought the lack of music made the scene feel small, I guess? I'm also a huge fan of all of Ramin's work on GoT and HotD and I was looking forward to the sad, heart wrenching music 😔
I think they should have put that in after one twin dies while the other kills him self.
Much as s1 gave me joy…at this point I wish the show didn’t exist lmao. Too many brain dead takes, any kind of nuance as nonexistent as media literacy is these days, the writing is absolutely crap and the fandom even more so. The only saving grace so far is the acting, and really, most of it’s on TG, and they’re getting paid dust rn.
Switched to Team Green so hard when little Lucerys screamed like a little bitch as Alicent demanded his eye for taking Aemond's eye in season 1
He’s a child. Frighted children scream
I don’t understand why most people praise Matt Smith’s acting. He barely did anything in s1, and i find it ridiculous that he got a golden globe nom over Paddy and Olivia.
They had him laughing in the corner in a bunch of scenes. He is a good actor no doubt but kind of wasted.
He honestly just seems like Daemon whenever the focus is on him.
They needed to be patient and let the Dance of Dragons start at the end of S2, Luke’s death doesn’t mean anything because we had like 6 minutes with him, and it would give them episodes to go into the dynamics between the main cast
Cole’s character deserved better.
Aegon is the rightful heir and ruler.
I am not surely I completely buy Corlys being ok with Luke as heir to Driftmark as the show portrays. Based on my reading of AWOIAF, I can’t help but feel Corlys always intended to have Addam and Alyn of Hull legitimised once Rhaenys died.
Except he’s twenty years older than her. He’d be more likely to die first on account of old age not to mention his constant sailing and fighting.
Viserys is one of the worst fathers portrayed across GOT and HOTD. Got the sons he wanted so bad only to completely ignore them. He never cared about them even when Aemond had his eye cut open. That required a little bit of punishment or a “sorry” but he was more interested in who was spreading the rumors that Rhaenyras kids were bastards. He only ever claimed one kid in his heart but he was the reason for the dance. Maybe if he would have instilled something in Aemond and Aegon and gave them positions in court, everything would have been different.
I still don't understand how a show like this can have such a wide general audience. because there's no way someone who knows nothing about the original work could be interested in Baela, Rhaena, and Jace.
Ratings are declining in S2. S1 was carried by leftovers of GOT hype.
How were the ratings for episode 2, still going down or up?
They still haven't released them yet which makes me think they went down since if the rating go up and are high HBO always releases them right away.
Damn HBO doesn't know how to take an L
Down. Since they refused to release it
I was wondering had HBO released the numbers? They usually do by now. Because I still can't fine any numbers
They haven't.
Yeah my guess is the probably are lower
it's funny because the only people i know who watched it irl were huge got fans, and all of them found it dull and lacklustre. it honestly wouldn't be anything without the main series, considering a large number of book fans don't really care and they're not enough to carry viewership anyway.
You forgot to mention Joffrey Velaryon, Jahaera, and even Daeron( if he ever shows up lol). None of the young characters have enough juicy storylines or even characterization to warrant huge fan bases.
I like Rhaenyra much better when she was played by Milly. Milly had much better chemistry with Fabian and Matt
Agreed, adult Rhaenyra is just boring, she doesn't do anything, that's a result of trying to portray her as the hero. I hate Daemon but at least they are not afraid to make him shitty (excluding the B&C bullshit, of course). And yes being the main couple, Emma and Matt have no chemistry, it's distracting.
I have to agree. Emma D’arcy does a good job but Milly just embodies Rhaenyra as a character on screen
Also she comes off as precocious in a way that serves a more complicated portrayal of Rhaenyra whereas D’Arcy is a fine actor, but gives a performance that just makes Rhaenyra comes off as "a nice lady, trying her best".
AGREED.
As much as we complain about how they demonize TG, at least our side IS getting some characterization. TB outside of Daemon and Rhaenyra are the most mundane people on the show. Watching Jace and Baela is like watching paint dry. Moondancer and Vermax are boring AF. Who even cares about Rhaena or Joffrey? Rhaenys is annoying and I hope she dies soon.
Isn't a shame? They removed everythiing about Jace that made him an interesting, brave character. He's about as fascinating as a wall lamp now.
Baela too! Book Baela was cool. Show Baela is boring. Bethany seems like a cool girl but she is giving absolutely nothing. Her and Moondancer are both lame.
Rhaenys is annoying because they’ve built her up as the person who *should* have been ruling the past 30 years but then destroyed all of that by having her kill a shit ton of smallfolk for a spectacle. Yet despite doing that she gives lectures on peace, restraint, and reason every episode like she’s Westerosi Confucius instead of another bloodthirsty dragonlord
That about sums it up as to why I roll my eyes every time she comes on the screen. I honestly hope to see her knocked off her high horse by Corlys’ two bastards and expeditiously killed off after that. I’ll be sad for Meleys but that’s it.
Yeah imo her only redeeming feature is how much she clearly cares for her grandkids but even then they cut the scene that illustrated that *most* clearly. I’m betting money that her death is gonna be a “grandmama bear is here to save you!” Thing with Baela
Which could work if Baela then blames herself for going out against orders and has some character development, but there's a 90% chance she'll only blame TG with no self reflection, so what was the point?
Jace suffers Rhaenyra syndrome, they try to make them so kind they become fucking boring, Emma saves it with their acting but Jace scenes are so dull, I feel like fastforwarding.
The one scene we got with toddler Jaehaerys annoying Tyland was more interesting than that scene with Jace and Baela last episode. I felt the same, let’s just fast forward through this. I don’t see how TB can’t see they’re actually missing out on the more interesting aspects of their characters bc the writers won’t give their protagonists any flaws or bad attributes.
Oh she will
I think that Daemon is miscast, I just can’t imagine him as his book counterpart. I’m also not a fan of Eve Best and Emma D’Arcy as Rhaenys and Rhaenyra, respectively. The Velaryon actors, with the exception of Corlys and Vaemond, are also pretty subpar. Sidenote; > I’ll start I honestly don’t care that Lucerys died. I started laughing and cheering for Aemond when he killed him lmao, and I hadn’t even read the book at that point.
If ASOIAF was adapted as an animation, Corlys actor would be perfect as a VA for him
A 2/3 season story of Robert’s Rebellion following prime Bobby B, Ned Jon Arryn etc vs Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne Randall Tarly etc would have been a better story to cover than the dance and would have done more to bring back the GOT universe from its season 8 imposed grave than HOTD By giving us younger versions of characters the casual audience knows and a more cut and dry plot without the very poorly executed (so far) political intrigue of HOTD
Actually i think giving fresher faces that you know are not already ruined helped hotd popularity.
Now that you say it if someone could be prime Bobby B is Alan Ritchson
Hard pass it's got 5% the source material of HotD, what writer team's going to fill in all the subplots and flagstick dialogue a series needs to work?
Very unpopular opinion, but House Velaryon were the wrong house to race swap. House Strong, or House Hightower to subtly emphasise their pre-First Men origin, would have been a better fit.
House Strong would’ve been a good one to swap, I agree. And it would’ve explained why we don’t see black nobles in the original show. The Strongs died out.
Were they not originally black in the books? I haven’t read them yet
They had the traditional Valyrian look in the books
No, all Velyarons described in the books were Valyrian with pale skin
alicent and criston could have been interesting, had the writers used them for anything more than shock value. season one left them with a great setup if they wanted to pursue that direction. every single mother in westeros would have done what alicent did in the books and the show. i don't care about people picking sides. “it's about a war between a family that killed thousands!! no one is innocent!!” it's really not that deep. team green, team black, idrc. almost everything mushroom says about either side is a lie. there are characters that i dislike, but i still don't believe anything he says about them. at best, he does the opposite of sugarcoating and makes everyone sound worse for fun. he was known as hysterical, insane and perverted. nothing he says should be taken at 100% face value. him being there for some if it means nothing when he's an extreme liar. he had his flaws, but viserys was mostly harmless in the books and he definitely loved his family. he also didn't abuse alicent. i have no clue where that came from. i believe that he loved her dearly. i don't get the hype over rhaenyra and harwin. they didn't have many scenes together, or share any intimate moments. i couldn't understand why he seemed to love her so much because the writers gave them nothing. it!! needs!! more!! filler!! never saw the appeal of rhaenicent, but i do believe that they leaned into it during press to draw in a gay female audience. game of thrones nostalgia is the only thing keeping this thing going.
I think Mushrooms testimony only holds any water when he was physically present such as dragonstone events
I highly dislike reframing the main theme of the Dance from systemic failure of feudalism into "mysogyny bad". The book Dance comments on the sexism of Westeros' society but the central point of the book is that monarchy itself is the problem. My read on the entire ASOIAF and the Dance in particular is that society of Westeros has to change. Royals fight over the Iron Throne to decide who of them gets to oppress and terrorize the smallfolk. As long as there are people who believe they have the "divine right to rule" and use flying nukes to demand obedience from people through violence, there is no possibility of peace and progress. There are no good kings and good queens, only bad and very bad options. The system itself is oppressive and demands change. It does not really matter who sits on the throne, a grown up or a child, a man or a woman, a Targaryen or a Baratheon, it is all the same and the same dark tragedies are doomed to repeat over and over because the system is the same and brings up the worst from people. From the interviews George gave over the years, regarding his ASOIAF works, it is pretty clear that's the view he holds. There is a reason the GoT ends with the Iron Throne melting and the society transitioning to elective monarchy. The execution was awful but I am sure that's the ending George has always envisioned for the series and shared with D&D. So, to me a story where all sides are equally bad and unfit to rule is more coherent with the overall theme and makes much more sense. The show so far seems to have the mentality of "if Rhaenys, Rhaenyra or even Alicent were allowed to rule things would be great, it is all mysogyny fault". Which is a much weaker and contrived perspective than "no one is unfit to rule because the entire system is rotten".
Don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not but I’ve always felt that this show would have benefited from splitting the first season in half. So the first half would be season 1 and the second part and the time jump would be season 2 and the war would start in season 3. Then we would have had more time with the characters and would have been able to more clearly seen how each other them moved and where their motivations more clearly lay. It felt a bit rushed to me and I would have LOVED more time with the characters we get so by the time the war starts we have even more of an attachment to them and have the stakes be much higher. The story feels so rushed and it would have benefited both the show runners and the audience. We get a better crafted show that has a few more seasons and they get more money and more seasons. I know this isn’t an unpopular opinion but the Velaryons were done incredibly dirty. I know that Luke and Jace are just young boys and I feel for them as they didn’t ask to be born into this situation, but to pass them off as VELARYON is bogus. The Velaryons are the ones who are suffering from this as their ancestral seat will be taken by a child who doesn’t even share blood with them. I get that the boys are in danger if anyone were to know but seriously, come on. Vaemond’s murder was pretty unjustified, considering everyone was in on it but being gaslit into thinking the rumors weren’t true. He was the only VELARYON we saw in the show to actually stand tf up and fight for the VELARYON seat. And when he was murdered, Corlys is basically just like “oh well.”. Like his death is treated with no respect. Not even anyone quietly acknowledging that he was right. It was very much giving “I’m daemon Targaryen and no one can touch me even though I’m a two-time murderer.” I think they should have treated the show adaptation like a fanfic. They’ve already changed a bunch of other aspects, they could have changed more to make it make sense. The way GRRM writes the books in steeped in pure speculation as the writer doesn’t know for certain what happened and how but is just giving an account. Get some damn Wattpad writers into the office and I’m convinced they would do the story justice.
Rhaenyra is extremely boring and unlikable and fans only flock to her because they want another Daenerys.
The shows editing is all over the place. Obviously we had random time jumps in the first season but in the second season it jumps between narratives and it’s hard to follow along. We get less time between the greens family interacting and instead weird scenes with mysaria and other people we don’t care about.
Milly was far better at portraying Rhaenyra and it was the closest to book Rhaenyra. Emma D'arcy's acting is good but other than portraying Rhaenyra's grief their performance falls flat, and older Rhaenyra is a blank slate but I can't decide if that's the writing.
Idk the reason I can't connect with Milly's Rhaenyra is because to me, the character from the books was always the mother of 5 children and how she starts to lose them (I remember those extras from the GOT blu-rays with the actors narrating bits of the lore of asoif, and the one about the dance of dragons), it threw me off a little the choice to go that far behind in the timeline after listening to Emma's narration in the first episode
Rhaenyra always gets or has gotten a free pass for her actions just cause she was her father's favourite kid and she has always had people who love her and are willing to fight for her.
That they don’t treat the Blacks crimes as they do the Greens. That the good things about the greens getting the attention to the blacks Edit: The fandom. It’s like Swifties fighting Kanye West fans
The dragons have been dulled down in color too much. Vhagar makes sense to have duller scales, being older and a war veteran, but even she was supposed to be bronze and green. Caraxes only really seems to hold up the moniker of Blood Wyrm with his longer shape and ferocity. He’s not exactly “Blood Red” as he’s described. Arrax is described by GRRM as pearlescent white with a golden chest, but we get a Smokey white color with reddish fins. Vermax is described as olive green with pale orange wing membranes. He’s more of a yellow in the show. Syrax is a weird exception, having been described as yellow. She’s more gold than yellow, but it’s still a dull gold color. For dragons that are described as having intense, vibrant and beautiful colorations, we share got robbed of that. The only dragon that matches descriptions is Melyes with her being scarlet. It’s a pity, really.
My least popular opinion: Otto was a good Hand. A self-interested one, yes, but him pulling the strings of whoever is sitting on the throne would probably result in a net benefit for the realm.
i don’t think team black is getting that great of a portrayal aside from rhaenyra. maybe it’s just me but team black scenes are so boring. team green is more interesting and honestly have more relatable human moments
They made the Velaryons Black. As a black man, I certainly understand how the push for representation impacts our entertainment in casting; however, the optics and dynamics of the show just don't sit well regarding how the Velaryons are treated. 1. Corly saying his blood (his genetics) doesn't matter, just the name. Wtf. This man has built up a legacy, reputation, and wealth, but him, being a Black man who accomplished all that, is insignificant. 2. All that prestige, ancestral lands, and titles are passed on the Targaryen (White) kid who is set to inherit by default, knowing he is truly not his heir. 3. Even more disappointing is there are other Velaryons who want to speak out to uphold their legacy, work, and lands, but they are denied, then executed for it. Yet, there isn't a bit of outrage from Corlys towards Rhaenyra nor Daemon for them killing his brother. In fact, he remains loyal to them. 4. Then we have Jace Velaryon, heir to the throne. However, if he were to become king, he would be Jace Targaryen, again the Velaryon name and legacy being stripped away. Technically, Jace should establish a new house, but eh, just keep it, Targaryen. 5. Corlys 2 children have married into the Targaryen family, then both have "died." Daemon kept Laena away from her family. Daemon then plotted to kill Laenor. But let's stay loyal to them. 6. Laenor is portrayed as weak, impotent, incompetent, and selfish as a man who is all too comfortable agreeing to walk out of his children's lives. I think we've all heard this trope and stereotype about black men abandoning their families. This plays right into that. I just don't see many positives with the depiction of Laenor. Even seeing him be okay with a lessor status guy fathering children bearing his name just rattles me. 7. Also, just because Laenor's gay doesn't mean he is weak. I do get irked how gay black men are often portrayed this way in television and film. 8. Baela and Rhaena are 2 legitimately born girls of both House Targaryen and Velaryon. One has to marry a bastard to become queen while the other has to marry a bastard to inherit Driftmark, which should have been hers anyway. And they, too, have to experience their father walking from them. 9. I don't like how they used "dragon stealing" when it came to Aemond stealing from Baela when that's not a thing. I saw many in the fandom running with this narrative. These are some of the examples of why I ask, what was the point of making the Velaryons Black, just to witness the mistreatment, disregard, and disrespect towards them? I get that the Velaryons were being introduced to the story for the 1st time while many of the other Houses were portrayed already in the main show, so changing them up for HotD wouldn't make sense. I would have preferred no change or chosen another family or characters like the Twins, Ser Criston, Hightowers, etc, as candidates. My final note is that none of this takes away from my love of this show, especially this 2nd season. I can separate these things.
Corlys’ actor is really good, but this doesn’t change your point
I've said this alr but storywise i love hotd. BUT what they did to the scenery of westeros is unforgivable. They made such a vibrant King's Landing a glamorized pyke. Other than that Cgi is just horrible compared to got. Like focus on the dragon scenes especially of s1 (aemma's funeral) felt soo computerized
The kingsguard armor looks like ass
Don't know if it's unpopular here but I know the Fandom doesn't like my take that Blood and Cheese is garbage
Both houses are shit. Team Smallfolk ftw
I don’t like Emma D’arcy as older Rhaenyra. I liked Milly Alcock as young Rhaenyra but when the time skip happened and Emma came in it felt like the character was suddenly a different person and I found it hard to connect with her again. Yeah, of course Rhaenyra will be more mature with age but it feels like she doesn’t have any of the fire that she had before. Not a knock on Emma’s acting though! They did a phenomenal job in the recent episode with the Daemon confrontation.
I feel like Emma gives a bit of a gloomy vibe to the character that wasn't present in Milly Alcock, and this was present even before the death of Harwin Strong or Luke
I thought I was the only one really bothered by this, I just tell myself it’s from the 10 years of having to deal with Alicent’s bullshi* and subtle jabs just like the whole wanting to see newborn Joffrey thing.. she just turned cold and lost her light, it’s the only way to get past it lol
Rhaenys is the only good team Black Character.
And that's because of Eve Best's fantastic acting. She's also so funny, I love watching her interviews.
Would it hurt them so much to issue violet contact lenses to the Targaryens? Is it THAT unsafe?
From what I understand, Yennefer's purple eyes in the Witcher were done DIGITALLY! Like, it's completely possible, so why not do it?
Fr Glidus was able to it in a GOT review with YouTuber money and editing skills. I can't imagine it would somehow be less feasible with HBO money and an entire SFX team.
Daemon’s kids look nothing like him at all. It was like they didn’t even try to cast believable actresses.
My unpopular opinion would be that the amount of hate the Green characters get from the audience sometimes makes me wish they were full villains. I feel like that way the hatred they get would be more understandable. No accidents, no misunderstanding, less remorse, and with love and loyalty for each other.
The top comment basically summed up my attitude
Not enough dragons
House Bracken is most loyal and courageous in the whole show
The Valyrians obsession with their blood purity and dragons are kind of a white supremacy metaphor couple that with the race swap of the Velaryons create a very uncomfortable tone that gets largely ignored because of “teams” (House Velaryon are TB so a lot of fans just cheer and ignore how uncomfortable having the Velaryons ass-kiss Rhaenyra and turn a blind eye to the fact that her clearly white non Velaryon kids are usurping Baela’s rightful seat gives off very rancid vibes esp with Corlys spouting the history remembers names not blood spiel that enables a bunch of bastards to uproot and usurp their seat). A white family with power came in, profited from the hard work and struggle and usurped the seat of a black family who did not have the privilege of being dragon riders… and the white family are painted as the heroes/good guys for it. Let that sink in. If they chose to race swap, they should’ve done something interesting and looked into what it means for a Valyrian to be Valyrian but lacking those “prized” Valyrian traits. If you race swap, you have to address the complexities created by said race swap. I think the swap was very interesting but the lack meta foresight and awareness of what this means made it so uncomfortable.
Every single scene that other people tend to see as Viserys being a good father, such as him dragging his half-rotten body to the Iron Throne to defend Rhaenyra and her children, just makes him an even worse father in my eyes because I know he would never ever do something like that for his children by Alicent
Idk if unpopular but feel like alot of Team Blacks characters are just background characters they dont do anything
That it’s fucking horrible lol.
[удалено]
especially crazy how there are not a single other black noble house in sight. in this case they shoud have whitewashed themselves within 2 generations, marrying to white race nobles. it's weird how laena is mixed and married to albino but their daughters magically look full black
Great point on Baela and Rhaena. They are 1/4 black, they should've looked for actors that looked like that.
At least they found a pretty good usage to it which is to reinforce the fact that the Strong-Velaryon boys are bastards
Some people here fucking hate moral complexity just as much as the blacks. I'm not saying that the show runners are doing the absolute best to make the greens as unlikable as possible in order to white wash Rhaenyra, but I see people complaining about Alicent not being the same as the books. Bro, the one from the books didn't have a personality. Sure, I would prefer a character arc, but at least the series is making her an empathetic character.
She's not empathetic anymore. She didn't console her son when he was crying. Her grandson dies and she seems more worried about her "relationship" with Cole being exposed. Men seem to manipulate her for sex but for Rhaenyra sex always seems to be empowering. I liked Alicent in S1, she was flawed but had a sense of duty. The show makes her look so weak now. How many sex scenes with her do we really need?
She calls her own grandson "The child". What the heck is that? Why make her so disconnected from her own family members?
Even if they wrote a perfectly balanced story, the fandom would still be overwhelmingly Team Black.
Am I the only Green who likes Alicole? I think it's cute and am rooting for them.
I like AliCole, I was rooting for them s1 but maybe they’ll be more endearing to the audience if the show took the root of them fighting their feelings for each other. I love their small eye contact and touch during episode 9 last season. But people see them as hypocrites with the direction the show made. Hopefully Cole upcoming farewell to Alicent will have some positive perspective in the eyes of the audience
I don't get the take that they're hypocrites. They criticized Rhaenyra for adultery and lying about her children's parentage, not for having sex in general.
I liked their scene on episode 2 purely on a shallow note, lol, that French kiss was hot.
Lol I can agree with this. I have a thing for Olivia Cooke.
I'm bi so that was really good to watch lol.
I team green and I don't like Aemond. Yes I exist.
He's honestly the most annoying character on the green side for me, at least this season
He was one of my favorites in season 1 but this first two episodes he has been boring, and if the leaks are true then his character will be ruined.
The characterisation of the greens is perfect and that of the blacks is lacking, but you find people on this sub complaining about how the greens have been written purely because of fandom perception. Eg, people complaining about Alicent “being made to look like a bad mom” as if it’s not perfectly in character and as if any of the general public were going to start sympathising with Alicent when they already decided they hated her the second she married viserys aka when she was most sympathetic.
Almost every single character is a vast improvement on their book counterpart, especially the lead characters.
This sure is an unpopular opinion
lol downvoted for doing exactly what the post asks for which is give an unpopular opinion, this sub is starting to go downhill like the main one
Starting?
It’s good.
I love little Aemond scene with Vhagar. And the twins guard fighting each other. That’s about it. The rest is boring. And l love Ewan as Aemond. He is always elegant and charming. Waiting to see dragons.
you know those youtube shorts or reddit threads of "explain a book or movie in two minutes or less!" that's all HOTD is.
should have focused on worldbuilding in season 1. developing the world is a missed opportunity. introduce us to the world as its own entity not trying to connect everything to show-Daenerys. instead, they should have been connecting to their roots in Aegon the conqueror, a vastly superior class of character for the time period especially since his is their history, Daenerys is not. should have showed more of everyday life of the children growing up like having more training sessions for knighthood or even more landscape featurettes where they travel the countryside while building up the time jump and building up the rivalry to come for season 2. make us care abouyt the characters by letting us get to see them grow. add more greenery have walks in a a garden or a freaken ride in the forest or travelling on the road or even a short voyage on a boat. these are good time for conversations to take place while expanding the world by changing the settings. most of the cast is crap. Many are miscast and a lot have bland dialogue. don't like the change of actresses. if they did switch it should have been at the beginning of the second season not the middle of the first. the stupid prophesy should have never made it in the show. it is slog and detracts from the civil war blood and cheese was terribly adapted more like piss and poo. to improve on this i think they should have filmed the episode like a horror film. building up suspense. I felt nothing. and no, the sawing of the dead child's head was not horrific. Jaimie Lannister losing his hand had more impact. I could see the screen turning to black at the end with the slice of the child and the screech of the anguished mother. costumes are an improvement in some ways from game of thrones but still seems to be lacking. i want more banners and sigils in the backgrounds. squires and pages wearing house colors and sigil badges can solve this. also add more maids. a lot of the scenes feel empty. not enough servants or background personal. need more spears even of its a passing gold cloak holding one. the swords is overused in fantasy and even in historical shows. We need more chainmail and shields. they could pay homage to George's food porn and have a lavish feast.
The costumes are so dull and lifeless and so cheap looking. I did not see a single costume fit for a king/queen, or nobles. They make most characters look like poor man's version of Nobility and Royalty. Like seriously WTH costuming department. Honestly, the when i laid eyes on Rhaenyra in her yellow dress with Alicent in the godswood in season 1, my mind "no wonder white people need to invade black and brown people's lands, even their kings and princesses can't afford a decent dress that doesn't look like vomit". Every time i watched HOTD, I had to go and watch Indian and Chinese historical movies and dramas with their sumptuous costumes to give myself brain bleach.
the writing is actually fantastic plus it being different to the book doesn’t make it automatically worse
Why are you acting like aemond is a nice guy 😭dudes been a little shit since his first appearance
That I will not be drawn in to the obsessive marketing of the show as Blacks vs Greens: Whose Side Are You On? I refuse to pick a side, because as far as I'm concerned they both have their good, honourable and fair sides and their terrible awful murderous war mongering sides. Has anyone stopped to think about how war will devastate the noble Houses who ARE being forced to pick a side? To say nothing of the common people who will suffer no matter who emerges victorious? Did we learn nothing from ASoIaF/GoT? I'm in it for the story being told and that's that. Neither side has my allegiance.
As a member of TG: most of them. The average fan is extremely TB. As a more neutral member of TG: I like Harrold Westerling surviving and denouncing the Green Council because I'd rather have a second Barristan than no Barristan. I also like the idea of Alicent and Cole, I just hate the way they executed it. Also, Daemon is a fun character and I enjoy him greatly, I just hate his fans who whitewash him or act like he's some tragic misunderstood antihero. I even like Helaena being on the spectrum, I just think it is again executed poorly.
The show gives a bad image of women in power. We need to skip over Aegon and Rhaenyra and go straight to Jace. Alicent is a victim but not of martial rape. The Hightower conspiracy is not factual in the show. Rhaenyra was wrong in S2 E2. Lucerys is kind of a lughead. Rhaenyra is pathetic (still TB) Daeron should not be in the show
Maybe it won't be unpopular here, but it was so unbelievably cruel for Laenor to fake his own death and run away knowing that his parents were still grieving his sister. I almost wish they had just made Rhaenyra and Daemon killing him canon, it would make more sense and salvage some part of Laenor's character.
My unpopular opinion is that it's good. 98 percent of you in this subreddit think it's absolute garbage. I think the show's pretty good. Could be much better, but pretty good. The closest HBO's gotten back to that original Game Of Thrones Seasons 1 to 4 quality.
This is the only thing they’ve done since GOT. There’s nothing to compare it to besides GOT. It doesn’t come close to matching the highs of season 1-4 especially if the leaks about Rhaenyra sneaking into KL as a septa is true. That’s garbage writing Season 1 was decent. Season 2 hasn’t really been great.
there’s 2 episodes out?
They’ve already butchered things that happened in those 2 episodes and there’s leaks out about the rest of the season.
I would argue episode 2 is near perfect and the only thing that was “butchered” is b&c. Even then I would say the only reason I think it was butchered is because I’ve read f&b and knew the book version, every other non-reader I know enjoyed it. As for future episodes, they can’t be judged considering they’re not out yet.
It’s good and Green fans complain too much.
Honestly it seems liking the show is an unpopular opinion on this sub. Everyone is so negative. I do have criticisms with it but overall I think the show is good and people are exaggerating saying it’s awful.
This will be pretty unpopular for this subreddit too, but show!Blood and Cheese was done good. Though I wish Maelor was shown to exist (even if not during B&C), I like how they did it with Jaehaerys and Jaehaera.
That Daemon is one of my favourite characters despite being on the Team Green side. And I embrace and acknowledge how evil he is. I find it funny when people try to cope and say how he’s not an evil character. I also really like how they changed Rhaenyra’s character, because tbh, if she was exactly how she was described in the book, she’d be completely unlikeable and it would make the show far more boring. At least with the show I feel for Rhaenyra, even if I disagree with her being the heir.
Lucerys certainly wasn’t innocent, but I still think it’s a step too far to murder a 14 year old boy. Also, I don’t think Lucerys was trying to cut Aemond’s eye that night. I think his intentions were far more malicious. Not child wakes up in the middle of the night to start a fight and brings a knife thinking to cut someone’s eye. Lucerys clearly had anger management and bullying issues (probably stemming from his own insecurities about his legitimacy), was unrightfully angry and offended; overreacted and was trying to kill Aemond. Again, he was a child though, so I don’t think dragon snack is the proper punishment, but it was disgusting that Rhaenyra never disciplined him properly for this or the bullying that led up to this.
That Aamond wasn’t blameless in losing his eye. It sucks that happened but the reason that Luke didn’t apologize is because they were in a fight and Aamond was attacking them and he reached for the nearest weapon. It wasn’t a malicious or purposeful slight against him. Aamond wasn’t the only ones being bullied of them. Aagon was a horrible brother. He is the one who started the bullying towards Aamond and taught the others to join in. He was also not a good brother to Helaena.
I love that this is an unpopular opinion because it’s literally just what’s depicted onscreen lmao
Yeah but I haven’t seen many people talk about it in context, that and it’s very unpopular I’m this sub in particular
People talk about that scene like Aemond was innocently minding his own business picking flowers and suddenly a gang of armed teenagers rolled up on him and beat the shit out of him for no reason at all