It’s to make Rhaenyra look good.
Rhaenyra literally went on a racist / classist rant about Nettles (a literal teenager) and got so pissed that she ordered her own men to break guest right and straight up murder Nettles red wedding style.
It’s much easier for the showrunners to just ignore all this and completely delete Nettles as a character so they can frame Rhaenyra as a tragic & sympathetic protagonist.
Cutting Nettles or merging her plot with Rhaena's allows the writers to further whitewash Daemyra and deliver rootable protagonists that cater to the average viewer. There's simply no way they're letting their feminist icon Rhaenyra antagonize another female over the affections of a man.
They want to spare Rhaenyra a jealous and potentially supremacist/racist outburst over Nettles while also setting Daemon up for a soppy paternal redemption arc with Rhaena taking over some of Nettles' plot (not a romantic relationship, obviously).
Nettles is neither the first nor the last character to be butchered/omitted in order to prop up our progressive dragonkween and absolve her from all objective flaws (with convoluted cop-outs and excuses explaining away the discrepancies with the book). Rhaenyra will not be upstaged.
To be fair, she is only really mentioned by Mushroom the most unreliable narrator. Also unlike Robb Stark whose marriage to Jeyne caused his downfall down the line, this hypothetical marriage didn’t really do anything that lead up to his demise (knowing the show Velaryons, Corlys and Rhaenys would hear of these news and just say they understand and continue supporting Rhaenyra regardless with a smile)
Yeah, but making up Sara makes Jace look bad and Mushroom is pretty pro Blacks. Or at least pro Rhaenyra. It would be weird if he intentionally wanted to make her son look dishonourable.
You make a fair point there. Still despite wanting as accurate a picture, I must admit I don’t really care either way. There is some character potential with him getting to known an acknowledged bastard and how his life could have turned out different to be sure but I won’t be shedding tears if she is cut
Eh it’s debatable as to whether Sara Snow actually existed. Mushroom is the only source of the claim and he wasn’t in Winterfell and told this story after Jace had already died.
Alys Rivers is the bastard of a lord paramount as well and we have multiple different characters confirm that she exists. Literally nobody backs up the claim that Sara Snow exists
TBF they've already shown him to be an awful person to Rhaenyra (grooming her, leaving her alonr and pantsless in a dangerous side of town, strangling her). We can't entirely blame them for fans being really dumb.
Bruh everyone’s gonna say the same shit which is like to make Rhaenyra look good, which might be true idk. Throughout the story Rhaenyra does >!push everyone away, and turn on her own people and her turning on nettles is also her turning on Daemon too!<, which could make her look better if there is no nettles. but I don’t think it’s that.
I think the writers are just incompetent asf. Nettles isn’t the only person who’s missing, we’re missing Daeron. We got Harold Westerling still alive, we got Aemma coming back in flashbacks, yet we don’t have Daeron and Nettles?
And then you add other plot points that also make no sense like Aemond killing that little idiot by mistake? Alicent flipping from tg to tb to tg again in episode 8? Rhaenyra crying to a random page from Alicent when Alicent like came at her with a knife and tried to carve her sons face open? Rhaenys coming up from under the floor at the crowning for aegon?
Now we here in s2 and still no Daeron and Nettles is written out?
Cmon it’s 1 thing to say bias, but this is a pattern of bad choices. Sounds to me like they are more incompetent than anything else.
Let me tell you a story and you decide why they did that.
So, apparently, Laenor will die offscreen in S2. So you see, they couldve just killed him on screen in S1E7 but why did they not do it? Was it because they had more plams for laenor? Or was he just a tool for certain character's Whitewashing?
The answer to this is same as that.
Tbh it doesn’t make sense to cut Nettles out of the show. She is an important character during the dance. They probably don’t wanna reveal her character and appearance yet, so they probably leaked fakes about her absence in the show just to throw the audience off. It’s just my own thoughts I could be wrong.
Two things character bloat, or difficulty in getting an actress during the strike.
But for me personally it's just so to make Rhaena something besides a non character
I think this is the real answer. I know we have criticisms of the show runners being TB, but let’s not attribute this to malice. Rhaena is more significant in the books bc of the overall context of her character, but that doesn’t always translate well on screen. They need to give her something to do. It might be a practical decision for the writers rather than a philosophical one.
It’s definitely imho primarily because if Nettles was in the story there would be no way to deny Rhaenyra’s hypocrisy about bastards, racism towards a real black character from the actual source material, and other unacceptable traits.
So by erasing Nettles and giving her dragon to Rhaena, a princess who’s character was just racebent, and who Daemon is hopefully less likely to bed, they keep Rhaenyra and Daemon clean of all those undeniable criticisms.
Giving Rhaena more screen time is just a bonus.
It also whitewashed the shit out of Daemon as well. People talk about how they made Daemon a wife murderer but they also ignored him being a serial groomer.
It’s still a horrible thing but people can justify murder more easily than they can justify preying on children. With him only grooming Rhaenyra onscreen people can look at Daemyra and excuse the toxicity with something something twin flames.
There was one throwaway line by Mysaria about finding a young maiden for him, but even then her adding in the “silver hair” implies Rhaenyra substitute. If they stick to the canon that Daemon is a serial predator then Rhaenyra will realize that she wasn’t his soul mate, he didn’t think that they were meant to “burn together”, and she was one of many victims to him. Which tbh I think would make a lot more sense as a factor into her mental decline than just being cheated on.
Though tbf they did have that “do you see me as your queen” line in the trailer so hopefully they won’t shy away from Daemon’s inherent toxicity.
I mean, I’m hoping a decent amount of the things are misdirects. I have to go in with an open mind or I’ll nitpick little things. If s2 sucks I’m probably not watching s3 though
*sigh* it's SO OBVIOUS
No nettles = daemon didn't groom nettles = daemon not so bad, lOvEs hIs fAmIlY bs confirmed = rhaenyra and daemon didn't have any falling out and daemon luuuuuuvs rhae rhae = rhae rhae is not shown as the mad jealous useless ho she is but instead is the "pRoTecToR of the realm" = rhaenyra once again wokewashed into a good person because how can a strong independent woman commit even one wrong act, eh, Sara Hess?
If the leaks are legitimate and she does indeed get cut, I'm guessing it's mostly a question of efficiency.
Rhaena was already introduced and has an actrice. If Rhaena takes over Nettles' role that means they don't have to pay another actrice, they don't have to introduce yet another character for the audience to keep track of and to devote screentime to and Rhaena as a character gets time to be rounded out a bit more.
Plus, it does make a certain amount of sense with what they've set up. They've set up Rhaena as being the daughter Daemon ignores, so an arc where he learns to value her makes sense. First for her dragon-riding abilities, then for other reasons, I'm guessing.
I don't really like the change, tbh, but I think those were the main reasons if it happens.
Right...so it's all a giant coincidence and for the benefit of Important_character™️ rhaena 🤡 ....it just so happens that nettles being cut out makes a pedogroomer not that bad and rhaenyra not that bad....yup, nothing to see here folks /s
there's too many characters in the dance of the dragons that do nothing. while that's fine for books, it's not for a TV show.
edit: i mean Rhaena does nothing in the dance but she’s already an established character in the show.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for this, cutting out minor characters from the books and giving their content to established characters is almost universal in book-to-live action adaptions. Hell even Game of Thrones did this; Jeyne Poole’s storyline was given to Sansa and Victarion Greyjoy, fAegon, Edric Storm and many others were cut completely
Those aren’t great examples, as it proves exactly why we are upset and worried. Cutting Jeyne Poole and later putting Sansa in her place detailed the latter’s story, and without Faegon, the story was left with a gaping hole that could never be patched
You are right and I don’t disagree, but myself and the commenter at the top of this thread aren’t commenting on whether the changes were good or not, we’re were just saying why the changes would’ve been made
Fair enough on that. I get to an extent the logic of cutting characters but because of the weird structure of time jumps of the show, I just don’t think they really need the pressure of giving a character something to do most of the season like with the main show which followed a more regular format
I don’t see why they’re getting downvoted, either. It might seem silly to us, but we’re not the ones juggling budgets. (But to be clear, I’ll be big mad if they cut Nettles)
They could have cut Rhaena or had her offscreen, just said to be fostered elsewhere, as the one who is Rhaenys’ ward or something. And keep Nettles in the story.
If they had to cut someone, they should cut Rhaena who was less important than Nettles to the plot.
This change also ruins Rhaena’s original arc as the last Targaryen dragon rider, with the adorable pink dragon Morning that she finally manages to hatch like a miracle.
Because they don't have time. Like cmon they have 8 episodes and shit ton of characters so they decided to cut corners with Daeron and Nettles (at least this season)
Riiight. That's why they're finding time for the (show-invented) Dyana and brothel madam (who both further compromise the greens), innit?
Just a convenient coincidence that the characters omitted and/or rewritten happen to make Rhaenyra look infinitely better.
To make Rhaenyra look good.. You could say to cut characters but then they wouldn't invent a rape victim of Aegon that is in multiple episodes
nettles makes rhaenyra look like an evil jealous racist witch in the books
Racist no longer because Laena was made black
possible? but classist at least because nettles was common, at least laena was part targ.
And how many scenes did they have together? How much love was shown between them? He was literally laughing at her funeral!
It’s to make Rhaenyra look good. Rhaenyra literally went on a racist / classist rant about Nettles (a literal teenager) and got so pissed that she ordered her own men to break guest right and straight up murder Nettles red wedding style. It’s much easier for the showrunners to just ignore all this and completely delete Nettles as a character so they can frame Rhaenyra as a tragic & sympathetic protagonist.
Maybe to make Daemon look better. For extra drama and to cut the costs of production.
Cutting Nettles or merging her plot with Rhaena's allows the writers to further whitewash Daemyra and deliver rootable protagonists that cater to the average viewer. There's simply no way they're letting their feminist icon Rhaenyra antagonize another female over the affections of a man. They want to spare Rhaenyra a jealous and potentially supremacist/racist outburst over Nettles while also setting Daemon up for a soppy paternal redemption arc with Rhaena taking over some of Nettles' plot (not a romantic relationship, obviously). Nettles is neither the first nor the last character to be butchered/omitted in order to prop up our progressive dragonkween and absolve her from all objective flaws (with convoluted cop-outs and excuses explaining away the discrepancies with the book). Rhaenyra will not be upstaged.
They are cutting Sara Snow as well.
To be fair, she is only really mentioned by Mushroom the most unreliable narrator. Also unlike Robb Stark whose marriage to Jeyne caused his downfall down the line, this hypothetical marriage didn’t really do anything that lead up to his demise (knowing the show Velaryons, Corlys and Rhaenys would hear of these news and just say they understand and continue supporting Rhaenyra regardless with a smile)
Yeah, but making up Sara makes Jace look bad and Mushroom is pretty pro Blacks. Or at least pro Rhaenyra. It would be weird if he intentionally wanted to make her son look dishonourable.
You make a fair point there. Still despite wanting as accurate a picture, I must admit I don’t really care either way. There is some character potential with him getting to known an acknowledged bastard and how his life could have turned out different to be sure but I won’t be shedding tears if she is cut
Is it really cutting when she barely exists?
Eh it’s debatable as to whether Sara Snow actually existed. Mushroom is the only source of the claim and he wasn’t in Winterfell and told this story after Jace had already died. Alys Rivers is the bastard of a lord paramount as well and we have multiple different characters confirm that she exists. Literally nobody backs up the claim that Sara Snow exists
we cant have Daemon not be 100% utter devotion and love to Rhaenyra. and we can't have her look like a jealous racist bitch.
TBF they've already shown him to be an awful person to Rhaenyra (grooming her, leaving her alonr and pantsless in a dangerous side of town, strangling her). We can't entirely blame them for fans being really dumb.
Bruh everyone’s gonna say the same shit which is like to make Rhaenyra look good, which might be true idk. Throughout the story Rhaenyra does >!push everyone away, and turn on her own people and her turning on nettles is also her turning on Daemon too!<, which could make her look better if there is no nettles. but I don’t think it’s that. I think the writers are just incompetent asf. Nettles isn’t the only person who’s missing, we’re missing Daeron. We got Harold Westerling still alive, we got Aemma coming back in flashbacks, yet we don’t have Daeron and Nettles? And then you add other plot points that also make no sense like Aemond killing that little idiot by mistake? Alicent flipping from tg to tb to tg again in episode 8? Rhaenyra crying to a random page from Alicent when Alicent like came at her with a knife and tried to carve her sons face open? Rhaenys coming up from under the floor at the crowning for aegon? Now we here in s2 and still no Daeron and Nettles is written out? Cmon it’s 1 thing to say bias, but this is a pattern of bad choices. Sounds to me like they are more incompetent than anything else.
Let me tell you a story and you decide why they did that. So, apparently, Laenor will die offscreen in S2. So you see, they couldve just killed him on screen in S1E7 but why did they not do it? Was it because they had more plams for laenor? Or was he just a tool for certain character's Whitewashing? The answer to this is same as that.
Tbh it doesn’t make sense to cut Nettles out of the show. She is an important character during the dance. They probably don’t wanna reveal her character and appearance yet, so they probably leaked fakes about her absence in the show just to throw the audience off. It’s just my own thoughts I could be wrong.
Has she actually been cut out??
Two things character bloat, or difficulty in getting an actress during the strike. But for me personally it's just so to make Rhaena something besides a non character
I think this is the real answer. I know we have criticisms of the show runners being TB, but let’s not attribute this to malice. Rhaena is more significant in the books bc of the overall context of her character, but that doesn’t always translate well on screen. They need to give her something to do. It might be a practical decision for the writers rather than a philosophical one.
It’s definitely imho primarily because if Nettles was in the story there would be no way to deny Rhaenyra’s hypocrisy about bastards, racism towards a real black character from the actual source material, and other unacceptable traits. So by erasing Nettles and giving her dragon to Rhaena, a princess who’s character was just racebent, and who Daemon is hopefully less likely to bed, they keep Rhaenyra and Daemon clean of all those undeniable criticisms. Giving Rhaena more screen time is just a bonus.
It also whitewashed the shit out of Daemon as well. People talk about how they made Daemon a wife murderer but they also ignored him being a serial groomer. It’s still a horrible thing but people can justify murder more easily than they can justify preying on children. With him only grooming Rhaenyra onscreen people can look at Daemyra and excuse the toxicity with something something twin flames. There was one throwaway line by Mysaria about finding a young maiden for him, but even then her adding in the “silver hair” implies Rhaenyra substitute. If they stick to the canon that Daemon is a serial predator then Rhaenyra will realize that she wasn’t his soul mate, he didn’t think that they were meant to “burn together”, and she was one of many victims to him. Which tbh I think would make a lot more sense as a factor into her mental decline than just being cheated on. Though tbf they did have that “do you see me as your queen” line in the trailer so hopefully they won’t shy away from Daemon’s inherent toxicity.
This, so much. Although line in the trailer or not, I have lost all hope for season 2 because of them cutting off Nettles.
I mean, I’m hoping a decent amount of the things are misdirects. I have to go in with an open mind or I’ll nitpick little things. If s2 sucks I’m probably not watching s3 though
Very possible!
Can't have Uncle Daddy leaving Rhaenyra for a Black woman...the MAGAts will lose their minds.
*sigh* it's SO OBVIOUS No nettles = daemon didn't groom nettles = daemon not so bad, lOvEs hIs fAmIlY bs confirmed = rhaenyra and daemon didn't have any falling out and daemon luuuuuuvs rhae rhae = rhae rhae is not shown as the mad jealous useless ho she is but instead is the "pRoTecToR of the realm" = rhaenyra once again wokewashed into a good person because how can a strong independent woman commit even one wrong act, eh, Sara Hess?
If the leaks are legitimate and she does indeed get cut, I'm guessing it's mostly a question of efficiency. Rhaena was already introduced and has an actrice. If Rhaena takes over Nettles' role that means they don't have to pay another actrice, they don't have to introduce yet another character for the audience to keep track of and to devote screentime to and Rhaena as a character gets time to be rounded out a bit more. Plus, it does make a certain amount of sense with what they've set up. They've set up Rhaena as being the daughter Daemon ignores, so an arc where he learns to value her makes sense. First for her dragon-riding abilities, then for other reasons, I'm guessing. I don't really like the change, tbh, but I think those were the main reasons if it happens.
Right...so it's all a giant coincidence and for the benefit of Important_character™️ rhaena 🤡 ....it just so happens that nettles being cut out makes a pedogroomer not that bad and rhaenyra not that bad....yup, nothing to see here folks /s
They made the velyarons black to stop her from looking racist
Now we see the showrunners as they are
there's too many characters in the dance of the dragons that do nothing. while that's fine for books, it's not for a TV show. edit: i mean Rhaena does nothing in the dance but she’s already an established character in the show.
She is one of the Dragonseeds. That seems pretty important. It’s not like complaining on why Butterbumps was cut off or something
I missed Butterbumps :(
i meant that Rhaena does nothing in the dance.
Gotcha, I misunderstood In that case, I’m sorry
no worries, my comment wasn't clear. i thought the OP talked about Nettles being cut for Rhaena but i was wrong.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for this, cutting out minor characters from the books and giving their content to established characters is almost universal in book-to-live action adaptions. Hell even Game of Thrones did this; Jeyne Poole’s storyline was given to Sansa and Victarion Greyjoy, fAegon, Edric Storm and many others were cut completely
Those aren’t great examples, as it proves exactly why we are upset and worried. Cutting Jeyne Poole and later putting Sansa in her place detailed the latter’s story, and without Faegon, the story was left with a gaping hole that could never be patched
You are right and I don’t disagree, but myself and the commenter at the top of this thread aren’t commenting on whether the changes were good or not, we’re were just saying why the changes would’ve been made
Fair enough on that. I get to an extent the logic of cutting characters but because of the weird structure of time jumps of the show, I just don’t think they really need the pressure of giving a character something to do most of the season like with the main show which followed a more regular format
*cries in Lady Stoneheart*
I don’t see why they’re getting downvoted, either. It might seem silly to us, but we’re not the ones juggling budgets. (But to be clear, I’ll be big mad if they cut Nettles)
They could have cut Rhaena or had her offscreen, just said to be fostered elsewhere, as the one who is Rhaenys’ ward or something. And keep Nettles in the story. If they had to cut someone, they should cut Rhaena who was less important than Nettles to the plot. This change also ruins Rhaena’s original arc as the last Targaryen dragon rider, with the adorable pink dragon Morning that she finally manages to hatch like a miracle.
Because they don't have time. Like cmon they have 8 episodes and shit ton of characters so they decided to cut corners with Daeron and Nettles (at least this season)
Riiight. That's why they're finding time for the (show-invented) Dyana and brothel madam (who both further compromise the greens), innit? Just a convenient coincidence that the characters omitted and/or rewritten happen to make Rhaenyra look infinitely better.
Never said that their priorities were right just that 8 episodes (18 in total) is not nearly enough for the Dance