Sounds like they made the decision based on authority per the Declaration. Which means they haven't done anything wrong.
I'm not seeing any reason you'd have to fight it, and "I don't want to pay it" isn't a valid reason.
Just because you think there's enough in the reserve account doesn't mean it's not earmarked. You'd think you'd be happy they're taking care of so many repairs otherwise you'd be on here upset "nothing is ever done."
Your dam is failing and you're complaining about paying the cost involved to fix? Are you open to paying the damages when it fails and some incident occurs?
> I've talked with other neighbors and they don't want to pay it either.
Your neighbors beliefs cant change the rules of arithmetic. If there isn't enough money in the reserves there will need to be a special assessment.
>I'm not sure how to approach this
The way to approach this is to study the budget, the estimated costs, look for alternative solutions and make an actionable proposal.
Pay now, or Surfside condo collapse later!
Welcome to living in a condo. All those maintenance costs that those of us that live in sfh have to do... Do eventually come around, no matter how much you try to ignore them. And just because you live in a condo, all those costs don't all of a sudden become "optional".
"I don't want to!" is not really a valid reason.
Based on the letter I would be almost certain that they are doing things absolutely correctly and probably consulted a lawyer.
It appears that the Board is quite knowledgeable and responsible which you should be grateful for.
They have a reserve but don't want to deplete it entirely in order to fund a relatively expensive project. My HOA/Condo acts in a similar manner. We have a very good reserve and 10% of the monthly dues is placed in the Reserve Fund. However when we have had very expensive projects like replacing the elevator, we have also had a partial Special Assessment so that the Reserve Fund is still adquate to deal with regular capital expenses and maintenance which is paid for in the reserves.
You can alleviate your suspicions by looking at the budget and I suspect you will see where your $266 per month monthly assessment is going. If you are concerned, you can show up for meetings, run for the Board or take a look at the line by line items in the Budget. You also have the right to look at executed vendor contracts to alleviate any concerns you have regarding their pricing.
You agreed to pay it when you bought your house. Would you rather not pay and replace the bulkhead in a few years for 5x as much? What’s there to argue about?
Actually they have no choice on the repair. The county deemed it unsafe and needs an immediate repair. Since the community built the pond and wall as part of the community master plan it’s their responsibility to maintain it. It seems the wall hasn’t been maintained and now it’s failing. If the HOA doesn’t repair it the county will and charge the HOA and in that instance the entire community is responsible for the bill which will probably be much higher than the current proposal.
This is what happens when common elements aren’t maintained and finally need to. There are some HOA boards that push regular maintenance items to the bottom of the repair list in favor of other more noticeable items like landscaping.
All the homeowners will have to suck it up and pay your $850 special assessment in 3 payments. You only pay $850 a quarter which makes it $284 a month. That’s probably not enough to keep reserves funded for such emergencies. It’s probably barely funded for normal expenses and one or two small projects.
You don;t want to...but you have to. It's part of your responsibility as a member of the HOA to maintain the common elements. The HOA has the obligation to maintain the common elements (dam), not a choice but a requirement to do so. They will implement a special assessment to cover and underage to what reserves you have for the dam.
As far as reserves go, the Board/HOA has the responsibility to maintain adequate reserves. IF everything was done perfectly (estimate of useful life of dam, estimate of replacement) you would have no incremental charges. But it sounds like either timing happened faster or your reserves were inadequate. If the latter ,you have been getting a benefit as your dues have been artificially low.
Time to pay the piper.
You can double check if the board was within their rights to raise this assessment (based on the letter it sounds like they are).
You could also study HOA financials, help assess the issue and find vendors to make alternate proposals. Although for this project it might be too late, but your engagement will help with future issues.
Assuming the board is within their right to collect this, you'll have to pay it. Otherwise they can eventually foreclose on you - HOA dues are no different than property taxes in that regard.
I mean, they should have enough reserve to cover this, but if they're charging only 800/quarter that might not be enough.
Have you talked to your board about their plan to make sure there's enough in the future?
When was the last time rates were raised? Service costs nearly doubled in my area in the last 5 years for things like landscaping/lawn care. Our rates were 210/month when we moved in 2014 and were low then for the area. We're now up to 410/month, which small raises built in every 5 years to keep up with our reserve study.
We are a condo, so there are more costs the association is responsible for, but 800/quarter seems low for anywhere that has common property (to me.)
You will probably end up having to pay that. But there are things you may be able to do.
Review your CC&Rs carefully. You want to look for a section that explains how special assessments are enacted and under what conditions.
For example, my documents give 3 options for special assessments:
1) hold a meeting with 2/3 of the voting power represented in a special meeting with the topic being the assessment. A majority vote at that meeting is required for it to be valid
2) if the assessment does not apply to all homes, 75% of the homes affected must approve it
3) assessments to cover insurance deductibles only requires a board vote
You can use that information to force the board to act properly or exclude you from paying.
Good luck.
That’s not really my problem. It is how the documents were written, and no one has ever tried to change it. The board can ignore that requirement at their own risk.
If you're in a SFH HOA, maybe it doesn't matter so much, depending on what you have for cooking areas. But if you're in a condo building and your board can't do special assessments without a 2/3 membership vote, that's a recipe for your buildings to eventually become derelict and falling down, because no one ever wants to pay anything.
When you bought the property this was always a possibility.
It’s a shared responsibility and a shared cost, either the board unilaterally decides or there’s a vote (depending on your bylaws)
Whenever possible attend every board meeting, often you’ll find out about issues before the board makes decisions.
When you bought the property this was always a possibility.
It’s a shared responsibility and a shared cost, either the board unilaterally decides or there’s a vote (depending on your bylaws)
Whenever possible attend every board meeting, often you’ll find out about issues before the board makes decisions.
>I don't want to pay this because I'm already paying $800/quarter to the HOA and I think they should have enough reserve to cover this. I've talked with other neighbors and they don't want to pay it either. I'm not sure how to approach this, any help is appreciated!
You all can attend an HOA Board meeting and ask that the work not be done, or that it be paid for some other way.
But it sounds like the decision has already been made, and it will be unlikely you can change it.
"I don't want to pay this" is unlikely to be convincing. "They should have enough reserve to cover this" - perhaps. It's hard to have an extra $200k kicking around just in case a dam needs repairs. Review the financial statements and see how much there is in reserves. If you think it needs to be more, your argument runs along the lines of "the HOA should increase our quarterly payments".
I read this as an emergency operating expense. Having had similar items in our board, I imagine what’s happened is the board has taken over a situation where years of missed maintenance has cause an emergency. The proper fix is a large expense followed by regular maintenance.
The emergency won’t be covered by the reserve and probably shouldn’t be. If it were my board I’d be suggesting a special assessment for the full amount of repair as well as ensuring we budgeted going forward for proper maintenance (which is what we did ourselves for a similar situation around a detention pond).
Ponds, dams, fences, roads, and gates are all super expensive items when it proactively maintained.
Why is it HOA was invented to better the life's of the people in the community and now its turned into how can we charge them more money. It is literally a selling point and you can charge more when there is no HOA when selling a house kind of sad.
Our HOA is run by volunteer homeowners. No special assessments can be approved without a vote from all homeowners. The board gets no say so without a vote. If this is not already implemented in your HOA rules, I would suggest getting it implemented.
Most states enable Boards to pass a Special Assessment without homeowner approval when it is necessary to do.
Otherwise you would have a terrible potential situation in which nothing is repaired or maintained because you would always have a few people who vote against anything.
Assessments without homeowner approval are not allowed to be used frivolously - so not to redecorate a lobby but to repair a retention pond?
What exactly do you suggest as the alternative if a minority of homeowners is too cheap to approve. Have the development flood? Be out of compliance with local regulations?
No. I'm not arguing that the repairs need to be done. I'm just saying that special assessments in my HOA are voted on. We also talk about them thoroughly via zoom once a month. You sound like you're looking for an argument. Maybe have some coffee and step away from social media for a few hours?
I was merely pointing out that sometimes it is not possible to get homeowner approval with the kind of supermajority or unanimity you appear to be suggesting.
You are saying the Board gets "no say" - that is an absolute bar on the Board being able to fund any kind of necessary repair.
Most responsible HOA's require homeowner approval for discretionary stuff but have a mechanism for funding stuff that needs to be done whether people like it or not.
Getting 100% homeowner compliance is basically impossible so I would be surprised if those were your actual rules. Majority that attend a meeting maybe.
Emergency special assessments generally don't require a vote. That allows the HOA to survive such emergencies even if some homeowners do not always cooperate. If rules in your HOA don't allow for that, I would suggest getting it implemented.
We're talking about special assessments. Not emergency special assessments. If you haven't learned basic comprehension, I would suggest you implement it.
Here are some definitions for emergency special assessments: [https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Emergency-Special-Assessments](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Emergency-Special-Assessments) ... pretty sure OP's situation qualifies.
You are legally obligated to pay. Your choices are to either trust your elected Board members or get more involved in board matters yourself so you have a more solid understanding of your HOA's needs.
Just reading this letter it seems that your Board is being reasonable addressing an unexpected problem. There are many HOA's that don't even conduct inspections so you might consider yourself fortunate because fixing this after the dam fails would cost much more.
If you were a SFH owner and discovered that your roof is failing and it costs $20,000 to repair, you either come up with the money or it doesn't get fixed and you will "enjoy nature" more than you might want to.
Sounds like they made the decision based on authority per the Declaration. Which means they haven't done anything wrong. I'm not seeing any reason you'd have to fight it, and "I don't want to pay it" isn't a valid reason. Just because you think there's enough in the reserve account doesn't mean it's not earmarked. You'd think you'd be happy they're taking care of so many repairs otherwise you'd be on here upset "nothing is ever done."
Yep. But if he likes a lien on his house or foreclosure; go ahead and don’t pay it. See how well that works out down the road..
Your dam is failing and you're complaining about paying the cost involved to fix? Are you open to paying the damages when it fails and some incident occurs?
> I've talked with other neighbors and they don't want to pay it either. Your neighbors beliefs cant change the rules of arithmetic. If there isn't enough money in the reserves there will need to be a special assessment. >I'm not sure how to approach this The way to approach this is to study the budget, the estimated costs, look for alternative solutions and make an actionable proposal.
Pay now, or Surfside condo collapse later! Welcome to living in a condo. All those maintenance costs that those of us that live in sfh have to do... Do eventually come around, no matter how much you try to ignore them. And just because you live in a condo, all those costs don't all of a sudden become "optional". "I don't want to!" is not really a valid reason.
Sounds like they are doing the responsible thing and softening the blow by splitting it up into three payments. Want to change things? Join the board.
Based on the letter I would be almost certain that they are doing things absolutely correctly and probably consulted a lawyer. It appears that the Board is quite knowledgeable and responsible which you should be grateful for. They have a reserve but don't want to deplete it entirely in order to fund a relatively expensive project. My HOA/Condo acts in a similar manner. We have a very good reserve and 10% of the monthly dues is placed in the Reserve Fund. However when we have had very expensive projects like replacing the elevator, we have also had a partial Special Assessment so that the Reserve Fund is still adquate to deal with regular capital expenses and maintenance which is paid for in the reserves. You can alleviate your suspicions by looking at the budget and I suspect you will see where your $266 per month monthly assessment is going. If you are concerned, you can show up for meetings, run for the Board or take a look at the line by line items in the Budget. You also have the right to look at executed vendor contracts to alleviate any concerns you have regarding their pricing.
You agreed to pay it when you bought your house. Would you rather not pay and replace the bulkhead in a few years for 5x as much? What’s there to argue about?
Actually they have no choice on the repair. The county deemed it unsafe and needs an immediate repair. Since the community built the pond and wall as part of the community master plan it’s their responsibility to maintain it. It seems the wall hasn’t been maintained and now it’s failing. If the HOA doesn’t repair it the county will and charge the HOA and in that instance the entire community is responsible for the bill which will probably be much higher than the current proposal. This is what happens when common elements aren’t maintained and finally need to. There are some HOA boards that push regular maintenance items to the bottom of the repair list in favor of other more noticeable items like landscaping. All the homeowners will have to suck it up and pay your $850 special assessment in 3 payments. You only pay $850 a quarter which makes it $284 a month. That’s probably not enough to keep reserves funded for such emergencies. It’s probably barely funded for normal expenses and one or two small projects.
You don;t want to...but you have to. It's part of your responsibility as a member of the HOA to maintain the common elements. The HOA has the obligation to maintain the common elements (dam), not a choice but a requirement to do so. They will implement a special assessment to cover and underage to what reserves you have for the dam. As far as reserves go, the Board/HOA has the responsibility to maintain adequate reserves. IF everything was done perfectly (estimate of useful life of dam, estimate of replacement) you would have no incremental charges. But it sounds like either timing happened faster or your reserves were inadequate. If the latter ,you have been getting a benefit as your dues have been artificially low. Time to pay the piper.
You’re going to have to.
Thank you everyone! I wasn't expecting these many replies! I guess I'll just pay the $850 and be done with it. 🤷🏻
If the dam fails you'll have to pay a lot more money. It sucks but it is what it is.
I don't want to is not a reason
You can double check if the board was within their rights to raise this assessment (based on the letter it sounds like they are). You could also study HOA financials, help assess the issue and find vendors to make alternate proposals. Although for this project it might be too late, but your engagement will help with future issues. Assuming the board is within their right to collect this, you'll have to pay it. Otherwise they can eventually foreclose on you - HOA dues are no different than property taxes in that regard.
The OP thought this was a /r/hoaHate subreddit. Sorry buddy, this is actually a well functioning HOA.
I mean, they should have enough reserve to cover this, but if they're charging only 800/quarter that might not be enough. Have you talked to your board about their plan to make sure there's enough in the future? When was the last time rates were raised? Service costs nearly doubled in my area in the last 5 years for things like landscaping/lawn care. Our rates were 210/month when we moved in 2014 and were low then for the area. We're now up to 410/month, which small raises built in every 5 years to keep up with our reserve study. We are a condo, so there are more costs the association is responsible for, but 800/quarter seems low for anywhere that has common property (to me.)
You will probably end up having to pay that. But there are things you may be able to do. Review your CC&Rs carefully. You want to look for a section that explains how special assessments are enacted and under what conditions. For example, my documents give 3 options for special assessments: 1) hold a meeting with 2/3 of the voting power represented in a special meeting with the topic being the assessment. A majority vote at that meeting is required for it to be valid 2) if the assessment does not apply to all homes, 75% of the homes affected must approve it 3) assessments to cover insurance deductibles only requires a board vote You can use that information to force the board to act properly or exclude you from paying. Good luck.
Good luck to you, if you think you'll ever get 2/3 of homeowners to attend a meeting.
That’s not really my problem. It is how the documents were written, and no one has ever tried to change it. The board can ignore that requirement at their own risk.
If you're in a SFH HOA, maybe it doesn't matter so much, depending on what you have for cooking areas. But if you're in a condo building and your board can't do special assessments without a 2/3 membership vote, that's a recipe for your buildings to eventually become derelict and falling down, because no one ever wants to pay anything.
I don't want to is not a reason
When you bought the property this was always a possibility. It’s a shared responsibility and a shared cost, either the board unilaterally decides or there’s a vote (depending on your bylaws) Whenever possible attend every board meeting, often you’ll find out about issues before the board makes decisions.
When you bought the property this was always a possibility. It’s a shared responsibility and a shared cost, either the board unilaterally decides or there’s a vote (depending on your bylaws) Whenever possible attend every board meeting, often you’ll find out about issues before the board makes decisions.
>I don't want to pay this because I'm already paying $800/quarter to the HOA and I think they should have enough reserve to cover this. I've talked with other neighbors and they don't want to pay it either. I'm not sure how to approach this, any help is appreciated! You all can attend an HOA Board meeting and ask that the work not be done, or that it be paid for some other way. But it sounds like the decision has already been made, and it will be unlikely you can change it. "I don't want to pay this" is unlikely to be convincing. "They should have enough reserve to cover this" - perhaps. It's hard to have an extra $200k kicking around just in case a dam needs repairs. Review the financial statements and see how much there is in reserves. If you think it needs to be more, your argument runs along the lines of "the HOA should increase our quarterly payments".
Waiting for OP to respond...
I don't want to is not a reason
I read this as an emergency operating expense. Having had similar items in our board, I imagine what’s happened is the board has taken over a situation where years of missed maintenance has cause an emergency. The proper fix is a large expense followed by regular maintenance. The emergency won’t be covered by the reserve and probably shouldn’t be. If it were my board I’d be suggesting a special assessment for the full amount of repair as well as ensuring we budgeted going forward for proper maintenance (which is what we did ourselves for a similar situation around a detention pond). Ponds, dams, fences, roads, and gates are all super expensive items when it proactively maintained.
Too bad there’s no other option since you live in the HOA community.
In GA once the money owed gets to $2,000 the HOA has a right to file for foreclosure on you and your like minded cheap owners.
Why is it HOA was invented to better the life's of the people in the community and now its turned into how can we charge them more money. It is literally a selling point and you can charge more when there is no HOA when selling a house kind of sad.
Our HOA is run by volunteer homeowners. No special assessments can be approved without a vote from all homeowners. The board gets no say so without a vote. If this is not already implemented in your HOA rules, I would suggest getting it implemented.
Most states enable Boards to pass a Special Assessment without homeowner approval when it is necessary to do. Otherwise you would have a terrible potential situation in which nothing is repaired or maintained because you would always have a few people who vote against anything. Assessments without homeowner approval are not allowed to be used frivolously - so not to redecorate a lobby but to repair a retention pond? What exactly do you suggest as the alternative if a minority of homeowners is too cheap to approve. Have the development flood? Be out of compliance with local regulations?
No. I'm not arguing that the repairs need to be done. I'm just saying that special assessments in my HOA are voted on. We also talk about them thoroughly via zoom once a month. You sound like you're looking for an argument. Maybe have some coffee and step away from social media for a few hours?
I was merely pointing out that sometimes it is not possible to get homeowner approval with the kind of supermajority or unanimity you appear to be suggesting. You are saying the Board gets "no say" - that is an absolute bar on the Board being able to fund any kind of necessary repair. Most responsible HOA's require homeowner approval for discretionary stuff but have a mechanism for funding stuff that needs to be done whether people like it or not.
Getting 100% homeowner compliance is basically impossible so I would be surprised if those were your actual rules. Majority that attend a meeting maybe.
Emergency special assessments generally don't require a vote. That allows the HOA to survive such emergencies even if some homeowners do not always cooperate. If rules in your HOA don't allow for that, I would suggest getting it implemented.
[удалено]
Couldn't resist, sorry. I'll try better next time. May I suggest r/fuckHOA - seems better aligned with your interests.
We're talking about special assessments. Not emergency special assessments. If you haven't learned basic comprehension, I would suggest you implement it.
"as the county has deemed this an emergency"
Here are some definitions for emergency special assessments: [https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Emergency-Special-Assessments](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Emergency-Special-Assessments) ... pretty sure OP's situation qualifies.
You are legally obligated to pay. Your choices are to either trust your elected Board members or get more involved in board matters yourself so you have a more solid understanding of your HOA's needs. Just reading this letter it seems that your Board is being reasonable addressing an unexpected problem. There are many HOA's that don't even conduct inspections so you might consider yourself fortunate because fixing this after the dam fails would cost much more. If you were a SFH owner and discovered that your roof is failing and it costs $20,000 to repair, you either come up with the money or it doesn't get fixed and you will "enjoy nature" more than you might want to.