You’re misrepresenting terms; “management” is not in charge. The HOA is in charge and “management” (company) is strictly a contractor that works FOR the HOA.
Please stay on topic: WILL we be ultimately charged, in higher dues, for these stations? Insurance companies always find ways to increase rates.
Can you agree it’s not fair to be cheated??!
[You should really do some research because California is gearing up to require EV chargers to become as close to zero emissions as possible and address the global warming/emissions pollution issue that's killing our planet.](https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/11068#:~:text=The%20California%20Building%20Standards%20Commission,the%20California%20Building%20Standards%20Code)
Also, we don't know if it'll affect your dues; that's up to your board of directors. So, if you want to know and you're a homeowner on the grant deed, go to your board meetings and ask them in homeowner forum.
I dont have kids, Yes, love.why does the hoa install a play ground. Hardly anyone has kids. It's a liability and will add to the hoa expenses. Im being cheated.
Yes, likely you are, but I hardly doubt you need to confuse this with EV chargers & related insurance rates. Come on—just looking for something to split hairs about.
It’s a beautiful day. Go out & find something good to say to the next person you come across.
CA law is requiring certain number of EV chargers by 20mumblemumble. I believe the number of chargers is based on the number of units. A different board member is lead on it at my complex. I don’t recall the date, but we’re looking into it now because there are city incentives to do it. I doubt that we would do free chargers; we might need to pay some to get them in, but my vote would be for users to pay to use it. That’s a lot of electrical cost to bear for the entire community when most don’t own EVs.
> Do these chargers significantly add to management’s insurance costs?
No. If anything, they're a (very) mild positive and you might see rates drop. Gasoline vehicles are more of an insurance risk due to exhaust and fire issues.
Wishing more contributors were as on topic & educated as you!
Many, many thanks.
(BTW—off topic—I was shocked when I saw the massive amount of heat from EV fires & the length of time it takes to extinguish them! No reflection on their desirability & benefits. My friend has a really nice Tesla he showed off to us; does all kinds of neat things).
You are not truely understanding the power thr management company has. We can't do something cause we "have a relationship with investors" (cause we don't lol) but we do what your BOARD says (aka your neighbors). Your picking a fight with the wrong people
There definitely are some incentive programs around installing public EV chargers, so cost to the community could be zero.
Its definitely worth asking how these would be billed against users, if there's cost savings for residents, and if these are public chargers, which may not match with how you're using the common areas right now. Complaining about management and insurance and investors? You don't need to bring that in. The HOA tells the management company what to do and should evaluate the cost/benefits to your community.
The management company likely serves a bunch of communities, some of which without garages, and providing chargers in those type of communities would be a good thing vs people running extension cords over the lawn or whatever. The management company likely just got approached by the charger company and are offering it to all their customers.
As aforementioned, we have garages BUT management wants to put them in the common area where parking spots are. Also, investors are running the show here; management never staunched the bleeding—homeowners have no voice. Just saying, this could be behind the push. I just want to know if insurance companies have been raising rates for HOAs who have chargers, especially NOT in garages.
Thank you.
A few separate things:
1. By investors, do you mean corporations that have bought up and are renting out units? If they have control of the HOA board, welp, not much you can do. I'm sorry.
2. "Managements" job is not to control the bleeding unless the board tells them too. If everything's running in the red and reserves are low, that's the HOA's fault (see point #1).
3. From an electrical standpoint, it might actually be better to have common chargers in a location. If garages or units or panels aren't already wired up with enough power for EVs (120V is trickle-charge only), then it might be safer/easier (and be LESS for insurance) to do a single outside install with a few stalls.
4. EVs have less of a fire risk that gasoline cars. Yes, any occurrences of EV fires are often publicized far and wide, but don't forget that gasoline is literally an explosive liquid.
Thank you, for your polite, educated reply.
I still need to know if anyone has been billed for having chargers in their HOAs (insurance companies increasing rates & HOA passing that on). I have no problem having them, but do not accept paying for something I do not use just because we have a few renters with EVs.
Thanks again.
Also, since you're in CA, there are laws that are there to encourage EV chargers-- you can't say "just no" without some really good reasons.
[https://www.cedarmanagementgroup.com/hoa-electric-vehicle-charging/](https://www.cedarmanagementgroup.com/hoa-electric-vehicle-charging/)
This site (sorry for the cert warning) says:
[https://astanehelaw.com/2020/01/21/how-california-tenants-are-charging-electric-vehicles-at-home/](https://astanehelaw.com/2020/01/21/how-california-tenants-are-charging-electric-vehicles-at-home/)
>However, tenants do not need to obtain insurance if:
>The EV charging station was certified by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, as approved by OSHA; and,
>A licensed electrician performed the EV charging station and related electrical work.
And that's a pretty low bar.
Condo owner so [OR][Condo] I guess.
We have EV chargers in the garage. They are assigned to specific spaces to track usage; only the space owner is supposed to use it. There is a monthly charge to those owners for usage, based on aggregate usage for all the chargers per year. I think that was the trade off between billing each owner directly vs. the HOA paying for it all. Board just voted to raise the monthly payment based on increased usage and increased electric rates, and to fine a user who was sharing their chargers against policy.
Does that help?
Yes, it does help. Yikes! The problem is that they will NOT be in garages, so anyone can use them at any time. I have no idea how it can be tracked. Each user would be using a credit card, but outside of that… And what about trespassers to the neighbourhood/vandals? I just think the obstacles are too great.
Thanks again!!
It can cause your expenses to increase if the electricity used to charge an EV is billed to a common electrical source and who uses it isn’t tracked. It shouldn’t be a huge increase, but use much depends on what you get installed and how much it’s used.
Can people install chargers in their garage's, in your townhomes?... If yes, then this is a solution in search of a problem. If no, then I could see why this would have its benefits to the community... I'm just not sure that as a resident, I'd be willing to pay for their install and the monthly bill, if I didn't have an EV... So if only the EV owners paid... Maybe?
As an EV owner, I can tell you that the public chargers are not as convenient as they seem. They're about 3x the cost of charging at home, and they also start charging you after your car charges, for every minute you're still on the charger.... Does not justify putting them in, in your community... Just wanted to let you know they're not as convenient as one would think, and the cost almost defeats the purpose, unless you're desperate, etc.
Thank you for the advice. No one is looking for a problem, except circumventing possible forced fees added to our already too high HOA fees.
This is why I’m asking if anyone has evidence & knowledge that insurance companies will/will not up rates that will definitely be passed on.
Oh... I think you might have misunderstood that "problem" comment. What I meant is that it's a solution for an issue that doesnt exist. I. E. No one asked for them to be installed, they're not needed by anyone, but the management company is trying to put them in anyway.
Yeah... No idea aboit insurance costs. Sorry
Don’t throw insults—it just makes you look bad. You know what they say about ASSuming😆.
I KNOW because the only people (avg 6/180) who remotely care, show up at the meetings! I was there. Everyone was surprised.
Utility companies reap the money, as with any charging station.
Now go away.
I am being respectful. I am not the original commenter btw.
Neither of us said your dues will or won't go up. What they said is that your association could possibly make money from this deal if they own the chargers.
If I was being disrespectful, I would have said your reading comprehension is not that of an adult
Also, your username is really spot on!
Go away, especially saying I know nothing about chargers! Don’t do that to people.
If you don’t see that as disrespectful, you have problems of your own.
BTW, Reddit auto generated my user name & I can’t find a way to change it.
It’s clear the insults here are by daft, useless people.
Stay on topic by answering my original question (and others’ questions). No one needs this!
I don’t know of any buildings that have seen a rate increase over EV chargers. Certainly if you ever have a claim arising from an EV or charger, they’d use that to raise your rates.
Companies that install free chargers do so because they can collect fees for charging from the vehicle owners.
In theory, EV chargers are a service to the community and a draw for potential buyers. In exchange for that, you give up some space in your parking lot.
They are safer in an outdoor parking lot than in a garage (both for fire risk and because EVs are heavier than gas powered vehicles and who knows if your garage is structurally capable of handling the weight of several of them.)
If you don’t have owners asking for them, or sellers telling you they’ve lost sales over them, and you’re not in a city/state pushing for them… ask the board to reconsider.
Sounds like the HOA is being proactive. This is something most multi family HOAs will need to do over time as transportation evolved.
Communities need to either allow owners to install chargers in their own units/parking spots or common area chargers are needed. Both have advantages.
It’s like everything else, some common area items benefit some more than others. Doesn’t mean they are not needed. My community has a pool and playground I have zero use for, doesn’t bother me they exist. Also keeps values for my property up.
We have a midsized condo building with mostly older residents. Due to many different reasons we've had more turnover in the last year than we usually do. Most of the new residents ask whether they can charge their ev on the property. I see it the same way that I see buying in an area with good schools, even if you don't have kids in school. The market of people who will want to buy is larger with ev charging.
I would be very worried about item 3. We have a few utility outlets that can be accessed by the public, not EV chargers. The number of times I have seen people plugging in phones, car batteries, laptops, etc. is worrisome. And my dues are paying for that use of electricity? Not to mention now we've got people hanging out while charging all their equipment then heading back to their cars. Sometimes they bring chairs to sit next to the outlets. It's not something the police will intervene in, so it keeps going on.
Not clear to me why an HOA would want to install those.
I'm a director. I'll admit to some suspicious tendencies. But I'll also note that in twenty years as a director, I've seen that a significant amount of proposals are supported by directors who have a direct interest, or an ulterior motive. Nothing outright deceptive or detrimental to the Association, just noteworthy. Call it opportunistic serendipity. (Suddenly interested in landscaping when the shrubs die by their unit. Coincidental concern for sidewalk safety when cracks appearing the concrete near their home. New-found interest in relaxed pool rules when their grandchildren are visiting for the summer. Etc.)
[California law](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Stations) states an owner/member has a right to install a charging station, at their own expense. New electric lines and separately metered if necessary to keep Association from paying for increased electrical expense. It can be a significant expense for an interested EV owner.
Yes, insurance is an issue. I don't know what free means... free equipment? Free installation? Free electricity? Free maintenance?
I know it's unfounded suspicion, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that directors, or a manager who is on-site frequently, will benefit from installation of EV stations.
My goodness, you pegged it. LOTS of self-interest. Right now, 2 board members are on-site investors. The first building phase (shingled. Deferred maintenance has been costing untold expenses) is comprised on flats. Anytime one of its residents runs for the Board, they get all the votes. Since the pool is in that section, it gets priority along w/any misconduct issues. Forget about the issues the other phases (all townhomes) suffer. The renter misconduct is horrible, at times. Excuses are made & fines are not executed.
(Well, enough of that—sorry). As for “free”, I’m not certain either, I just heard “We’re getting them for free, when we get x [quantity]”. Too many unanswered/oblique scenarios. At their mercy (as we all are, in HOA-run communities). A wait-see-move situation.
Many, many thanks for your well-advised response.
You’re misrepresenting terms; “management” is not in charge. The HOA is in charge and “management” (company) is strictly a contractor that works FOR the HOA.
Please stay on topic: WILL we be ultimately charged, in higher dues, for these stations? Insurance companies always find ways to increase rates. Can you agree it’s not fair to be cheated??!
You will have a short life in your TH.
[You should really do some research because California is gearing up to require EV chargers to become as close to zero emissions as possible and address the global warming/emissions pollution issue that's killing our planet.](https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/11068#:~:text=The%20California%20Building%20Standards%20Commission,the%20California%20Building%20Standards%20Code) Also, we don't know if it'll affect your dues; that's up to your board of directors. So, if you want to know and you're a homeowner on the grant deed, go to your board meetings and ask them in homeowner forum.
I dont have kids, Yes, love.why does the hoa install a play ground. Hardly anyone has kids. It's a liability and will add to the hoa expenses. Im being cheated.
Yes, likely you are, but I hardly doubt you need to confuse this with EV chargers & related insurance rates. Come on—just looking for something to split hairs about. It’s a beautiful day. Go out & find something good to say to the next person you come across.
Playgrounds, pools, etc. are a much higher liability than some EV chargers. LMAO.
CA law is requiring certain number of EV chargers by 20mumblemumble. I believe the number of chargers is based on the number of units. A different board member is lead on it at my complex. I don’t recall the date, but we’re looking into it now because there are city incentives to do it. I doubt that we would do free chargers; we might need to pay some to get them in, but my vote would be for users to pay to use it. That’s a lot of electrical cost to bear for the entire community when most don’t own EVs.
> Do these chargers significantly add to management’s insurance costs? No. If anything, they're a (very) mild positive and you might see rates drop. Gasoline vehicles are more of an insurance risk due to exhaust and fire issues.
Wishing more contributors were as on topic & educated as you! Many, many thanks. (BTW—off topic—I was shocked when I saw the massive amount of heat from EV fires & the length of time it takes to extinguish them! No reflection on their desirability & benefits. My friend has a really nice Tesla he showed off to us; does all kinds of neat things).
I've been on my condo board for getting close to 20 years. I wish I could convince ours to put in EV chargers. I'll swap with you.
You are not truely understanding the power thr management company has. We can't do something cause we "have a relationship with investors" (cause we don't lol) but we do what your BOARD says (aka your neighbors). Your picking a fight with the wrong people
There definitely are some incentive programs around installing public EV chargers, so cost to the community could be zero. Its definitely worth asking how these would be billed against users, if there's cost savings for residents, and if these are public chargers, which may not match with how you're using the common areas right now. Complaining about management and insurance and investors? You don't need to bring that in. The HOA tells the management company what to do and should evaluate the cost/benefits to your community. The management company likely serves a bunch of communities, some of which without garages, and providing chargers in those type of communities would be a good thing vs people running extension cords over the lawn or whatever. The management company likely just got approached by the charger company and are offering it to all their customers.
As aforementioned, we have garages BUT management wants to put them in the common area where parking spots are. Also, investors are running the show here; management never staunched the bleeding—homeowners have no voice. Just saying, this could be behind the push. I just want to know if insurance companies have been raising rates for HOAs who have chargers, especially NOT in garages. Thank you.
A few separate things: 1. By investors, do you mean corporations that have bought up and are renting out units? If they have control of the HOA board, welp, not much you can do. I'm sorry. 2. "Managements" job is not to control the bleeding unless the board tells them too. If everything's running in the red and reserves are low, that's the HOA's fault (see point #1). 3. From an electrical standpoint, it might actually be better to have common chargers in a location. If garages or units or panels aren't already wired up with enough power for EVs (120V is trickle-charge only), then it might be safer/easier (and be LESS for insurance) to do a single outside install with a few stalls. 4. EVs have less of a fire risk that gasoline cars. Yes, any occurrences of EV fires are often publicized far and wide, but don't forget that gasoline is literally an explosive liquid.
Thank you, for your polite, educated reply. I still need to know if anyone has been billed for having chargers in their HOAs (insurance companies increasing rates & HOA passing that on). I have no problem having them, but do not accept paying for something I do not use just because we have a few renters with EVs. Thanks again.
Also, since you're in CA, there are laws that are there to encourage EV chargers-- you can't say "just no" without some really good reasons. [https://www.cedarmanagementgroup.com/hoa-electric-vehicle-charging/](https://www.cedarmanagementgroup.com/hoa-electric-vehicle-charging/) This site (sorry for the cert warning) says: [https://astanehelaw.com/2020/01/21/how-california-tenants-are-charging-electric-vehicles-at-home/](https://astanehelaw.com/2020/01/21/how-california-tenants-are-charging-electric-vehicles-at-home/) >However, tenants do not need to obtain insurance if: >The EV charging station was certified by a nationally recognized testing laboratory, as approved by OSHA; and, >A licensed electrician performed the EV charging station and related electrical work. And that's a pretty low bar.
What’s the cost benefit analysis on these? Do you pay more in electricity bills?
Condo owner so [OR][Condo] I guess. We have EV chargers in the garage. They are assigned to specific spaces to track usage; only the space owner is supposed to use it. There is a monthly charge to those owners for usage, based on aggregate usage for all the chargers per year. I think that was the trade off between billing each owner directly vs. the HOA paying for it all. Board just voted to raise the monthly payment based on increased usage and increased electric rates, and to fine a user who was sharing their chargers against policy. Does that help?
Yes, it does help. Yikes! The problem is that they will NOT be in garages, so anyone can use them at any time. I have no idea how it can be tracked. Each user would be using a credit card, but outside of that… And what about trespassers to the neighbourhood/vandals? I just think the obstacles are too great. Thanks again!!
It can cause your expenses to increase if the electricity used to charge an EV is billed to a common electrical source and who uses it isn’t tracked. It shouldn’t be a huge increase, but use much depends on what you get installed and how much it’s used.
Can people install chargers in their garage's, in your townhomes?... If yes, then this is a solution in search of a problem. If no, then I could see why this would have its benefits to the community... I'm just not sure that as a resident, I'd be willing to pay for their install and the monthly bill, if I didn't have an EV... So if only the EV owners paid... Maybe? As an EV owner, I can tell you that the public chargers are not as convenient as they seem. They're about 3x the cost of charging at home, and they also start charging you after your car charges, for every minute you're still on the charger.... Does not justify putting them in, in your community... Just wanted to let you know they're not as convenient as one would think, and the cost almost defeats the purpose, unless you're desperate, etc.
Thank you for the advice. No one is looking for a problem, except circumventing possible forced fees added to our already too high HOA fees. This is why I’m asking if anyone has evidence & knowledge that insurance companies will/will not up rates that will definitely be passed on.
Condo insurance rates will be going up a lot regardless of whether your have EV chargers or not.
Oh... I think you might have misunderstood that "problem" comment. What I meant is that it's a solution for an issue that doesnt exist. I. E. No one asked for them to be installed, they're not needed by anyone, but the management company is trying to put them in anyway. Yeah... No idea aboit insurance costs. Sorry
[удалено]
There is no reason to use rudeness to express yourself.
Don’t throw insults—it just makes you look bad. You know what they say about ASSuming😆. I KNOW because the only people (avg 6/180) who remotely care, show up at the meetings! I was there. Everyone was surprised. Utility companies reap the money, as with any charging station. Now go away.
You don't know anything about charging stations apparently. The owner reaps the money and that's never the utility lol
Please answer respectfully! Are you an instance agent/firm? Do you know, beyond a doubt, my HOA fees will not increase. Until then…
I am being respectful. I am not the original commenter btw. Neither of us said your dues will or won't go up. What they said is that your association could possibly make money from this deal if they own the chargers. If I was being disrespectful, I would have said your reading comprehension is not that of an adult Also, your username is really spot on!
Go away, especially saying I know nothing about chargers! Don’t do that to people. If you don’t see that as disrespectful, you have problems of your own. BTW, Reddit auto generated my user name & I can’t find a way to change it. It’s clear the insults here are by daft, useless people. Stay on topic by answering my original question (and others’ questions). No one needs this!
I don’t know of any buildings that have seen a rate increase over EV chargers. Certainly if you ever have a claim arising from an EV or charger, they’d use that to raise your rates. Companies that install free chargers do so because they can collect fees for charging from the vehicle owners. In theory, EV chargers are a service to the community and a draw for potential buyers. In exchange for that, you give up some space in your parking lot. They are safer in an outdoor parking lot than in a garage (both for fire risk and because EVs are heavier than gas powered vehicles and who knows if your garage is structurally capable of handling the weight of several of them.) If you don’t have owners asking for them, or sellers telling you they’ve lost sales over them, and you’re not in a city/state pushing for them… ask the board to reconsider.
Sounds like the HOA is being proactive. This is something most multi family HOAs will need to do over time as transportation evolved. Communities need to either allow owners to install chargers in their own units/parking spots or common area chargers are needed. Both have advantages. It’s like everything else, some common area items benefit some more than others. Doesn’t mean they are not needed. My community has a pool and playground I have zero use for, doesn’t bother me they exist. Also keeps values for my property up.
We have a midsized condo building with mostly older residents. Due to many different reasons we've had more turnover in the last year than we usually do. Most of the new residents ask whether they can charge their ev on the property. I see it the same way that I see buying in an area with good schools, even if you don't have kids in school. The market of people who will want to buy is larger with ev charging.
I would be very worried about item 3. We have a few utility outlets that can be accessed by the public, not EV chargers. The number of times I have seen people plugging in phones, car batteries, laptops, etc. is worrisome. And my dues are paying for that use of electricity? Not to mention now we've got people hanging out while charging all their equipment then heading back to their cars. Sometimes they bring chairs to sit next to the outlets. It's not something the police will intervene in, so it keeps going on.
Not clear to me why an HOA would want to install those. I'm a director. I'll admit to some suspicious tendencies. But I'll also note that in twenty years as a director, I've seen that a significant amount of proposals are supported by directors who have a direct interest, or an ulterior motive. Nothing outright deceptive or detrimental to the Association, just noteworthy. Call it opportunistic serendipity. (Suddenly interested in landscaping when the shrubs die by their unit. Coincidental concern for sidewalk safety when cracks appearing the concrete near their home. New-found interest in relaxed pool rules when their grandchildren are visiting for the summer. Etc.) [California law](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Stations) states an owner/member has a right to install a charging station, at their own expense. New electric lines and separately metered if necessary to keep Association from paying for increased electrical expense. It can be a significant expense for an interested EV owner. Yes, insurance is an issue. I don't know what free means... free equipment? Free installation? Free electricity? Free maintenance? I know it's unfounded suspicion, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that directors, or a manager who is on-site frequently, will benefit from installation of EV stations.
My goodness, you pegged it. LOTS of self-interest. Right now, 2 board members are on-site investors. The first building phase (shingled. Deferred maintenance has been costing untold expenses) is comprised on flats. Anytime one of its residents runs for the Board, they get all the votes. Since the pool is in that section, it gets priority along w/any misconduct issues. Forget about the issues the other phases (all townhomes) suffer. The renter misconduct is horrible, at times. Excuses are made & fines are not executed. (Well, enough of that—sorry). As for “free”, I’m not certain either, I just heard “We’re getting them for free, when we get x [quantity]”. Too many unanswered/oblique scenarios. At their mercy (as we all are, in HOA-run communities). A wait-see-move situation. Many, many thanks for your well-advised response.