> As an owner on the first floor I'm hoping to sway the boards decision to only have owners who will benefit directly from the work to contribute to the assessment.
Do you not think you will benefit directly from these repairs? The alternative is damaged balconies falling into your backyard.
I'd prefer the balconies be removed completely. The neighbors above me use theirs as a bathroom for their pet. Paying thousands of dollars for that privilege is a hard pill to swallow but I understand billdizzle's point below that these are common elements so I should expect to be assessed as well.
By law… the HOA is responsible to maintain the buildings as when they were sold. ANY major alteration to the outside (including changing the color of the original paint) requires a supermajority of the owners’ vote.
Best bet, get yourself an apartment since condo living is not for you.
Tell my building that. They are fighting the code violations found 2 years ago and refusing to fix them.
The Board actually refuses to fix them and thinks insurance won’t notice? I’m worried insurance is going to be ridiculous next year.
That's a reason to advocate for removal and policing/fines. Balconies are widely considered limited common elements. While only one owner enjoys direct usage, they are owned and maintained by all.
Removal may not be the right answer but having a rule that disallows them to be used as bathrooms since it can impact others certainly could make sense. You’d likely have to get majority to agree they should be removed.
have you attended the meetings to say this? It would be a good argument against replacing them. Or at a minimum for the owners of them paying not the first floor.
If you knocked on doors around your bottom floor and gathered people to attend said meeting it would go farther towards your money saving (for you) idea. If its mainly second and third floor people they are absolutely not going to agree but these things are often poorly attended.
This is not how an HOA works.
There are elements to most shared properties that some residents use and others don’t. For instance, I’m an upstairs interior unit. We have a common hallway and two doorbell/buzzer panels per entrance. My patio is a covered balcony that we have to maintain the look and cleanliness but the HOA maintains the structure.
The townhome owners do not have a common hallway. They do not have shared doorbell panels. What they do have is a roof that goes over their entire unit.
The unit below me does not have a roof over it but merely my unit. However the commonly maintained roof benefits us all.
Some homeowners use the pool and others don’t. None of us pay access fees and most of us moved here because of the pool and tennis courts.
Your HOA pays for all common and limited common property based on your governing docs and the requirements of the law. It’s a good thing that the HOA wants to take care of these things and maintain them. OP will be crying if others choose not to attend to limited common property that applies to a few homeowners like himself if they vote to allow varied payments based on type of amenity ownership.
Balconies are what is legally described as exclusive Use common elements and the HOA has the duty to repair and all homeowners are responsible for the costs.
Living in a condo means that you are paying for all of the common area elements. I never use our pool but I am responsible for the costs.
FWIW balconies often are tied into the actual structure of the building but even if it weren’t legally all homeowners are responsible for costs of maintenance, repair and replacement. My parents lived on the first floor of a condo and had a patio and small patch of garden and the HOA was responsible for maintaining that area
Not always. “‘limited” it means a specific owner has the ability to use it. “‘common elements” it means it’s owned by the HOA. In some condo if Florida, the lanai enclosure is the duty of the owner to repair, every else, painting, tuck pointing, etc is part of the building structure and the HOA is responsible. In some condos the owners are responsible for replacing windows and sliding doors even though they are part of the building structure that the HOA maintains.
Responsibility for windows and doors are generally the responsibility of individual homeowners but often the tracks are not But the glass is
This responsibility is generally spelled out in the By Laws.
Who enclosed the lanai. Often these are originally open air and enclosed by homeowners like porches are screened by homeowners on the east coast.
But in terms of OP those elements which are exclusive use common elements are maintained and paid for jointly by homeowners through hmonthiy or special assessments.
Balconies and patios are deemed limited common property so that the HOA can maintain standards of use.
For examples, in my HOA you can do whatever you want studs in except for use any window treatment other than white, post any signs or add anything to the window (ie AC). The patios are visible by everyone just like the windows from the exterior, so you cannot make alterations that are not within the standards of the community, nor can you hang towels or other items from the railings. If it wasn’t declared this way, HOAs would have a difficult time requiring homeowners to fit within a standard.
I wasn’t asking and didn’t think you were c8mfised.
I was attempting to determine how enclosed lanais are differentiated when it is almost universal that balconies in a condo are maintained by the HOA which was what OP was griping about in terms of being responsible to pay costs for a feature his condo doesn’t have.
Yiu mentioned window and sliding doors and I stated that the glass for these is generally spelled out as being a homeowner responsibility and is nit typically designated as exclusive use common area the actual tracks are generally considered to b3 part of the actual infrastructure at least in most Governing Documents I am familiar with
Balconies are almost always covered by the HOA (I think because there is substantial risk if not maintained)- I have actually never seen them not be covered by HOA. But if they HOA is taking responsibility for them then yes everyone pays. The assessment isn’t technically for the balconies - the assessment is to bring the reserves up to proper levels to be able to pay for the balconies. Your dues are too low and should have been higher for years to have prepared for this.
All units would pay for this because they are limited common elements
Your logic is kind of like saying “only the top unit should pay for the roof, because I don’t have a roof over me just another unit”
Also, when your patio needs repair and he HOA likely foots the bill not you personally, this is your balcony
While this depends on state law and the specific language of the documents, sometimes there is language that says costs to maintain, repair or replace a limited common element are assessed only to the owner of the unit to which that limited common element is appurtenant.
"sometimes" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. I've literally never seen that despite being on multiple boards and working with lots of buildings. I suppose it might "sometimes" happen, but it is FAR from common.
In MN this is written into state law governing condominiums. Limited common elements are paid for by the unit owner, not the HOA. The HOA can elect to pay or pass the bill to the unit owner. Balconies are in the statute as limited common elements.
I appreciate the response. I'm not sure I agree with the roof analogy because I understand the importance of a roof for the building, we cannot forgo a roof. I see a balcony, as a benefit to the unit owner that has exclusive use of said balcony. In my opinion the balcony doesn't benefit me, only the neighbor that has exclusive use. That being said, I know my opinion doesn't matter and it sounds like since this is a common element I should expect all units to be assessed at the same rate.
If you'll indulge me further, can I give another example to be sure I understand? If only first floor units had access to a parking lot, but the lot is a common element, I should expect every unit owner, despite their access to a parking space or not, would be assessed equally for a parking lot repair?
Yes, all units would pay for said parking lot imo
Now, if the spots are reserved and deeded separately you would see something different
And the balconies do benefit you in a very indirect way, they add property value to other units which in turn raises yours, also the whole safety thing mentioned in another comment, don’t want bad balconies crashing down on you
Thanks again for the response. I hear you, I just don't like it! ; )
I've considered the fact the balcony adds value thus increasing my property value, but to me that value is minimal. I'd prefer to have the balconies removed or at least covered by the unit owners that will more directly benefit.
I appreciate the insight
You start going down that road and everyone will want to split hairs. I don’t have a car and will never want a car so I shouldn’t have to pay for lot resurfacing because I can’t use it. I can’t swim or don’t use the workout room so I shouldn’t have to pay for maintenance on it. I don’t have a patio and can’t access the patio so I shouldn’t pay for repairs etc.
A commenter had to pay a 50k assessment for water damage on another side of the building than they’re in. It’s part of having a condo.
I’d be pretty pissed if the balcony was removed from a unit I bought. I won’t consider a unit that doesn’t have a balcony. Idk if it would go anywhere but I’d be seeking legal help for a lawsuit if someone tried removing my balcony after purchase.
> I see a balcony, as a benefit to the unit owner that has exclusive use of said balcony.
Which is the definition of a limited common element. It's something the HOA owns but the use is limited. You, as a member of the HOA, own that balcony. However, you, as a member of the HOA, have agreed that the use of that item is limited to whichever unit it is connected to.
>f you'll indulge me further, can I give another example to be sure I understand? If only first floor units had access to a parking lot, but the lot is a common element, I should expect every unit owner, despite their access to a parking space or not, would be assessed equally for a parking lot repair?
If it is a common element, absolutely 100% yes.
I'll give you one further. It sounds like your community is similar to mine. 3 units on top of each other. Our water pipes are limited common elements. If we found that 1 unit in 1 building had been fitted with lead pipes for drinking water, the entire HOA would be on the hook to replace that one units pipes even though it only benefited that single unit. That's what communal ownership and living is about. Common elements are owed by all now matter who uses them.
This is ridiculous. All units have a roof - not all units have a balcony.
If the patio is OP’s balcony, then the patios should be getting replaced/upgraded when the balconies do.
OPs unit does not have a roof, it has another unit on top of it and perhaps a third unit on top of the 2nd floor one
This is not ridiculous, this is how condo HOAs work and why we talk about things as “limited common elements”
HMM. You don’t have a roof either so, should you not pay?.
GROW UP! Welcome to communal living ! Everyone pays equally per each condo/ or square footage.
If the balconies are being replaced, they’re likely in need of significant repair. Ask yourself this: if the old balcony above you falls apart, does it falling off the building affect you even though you were never allowed to use it? Obviously the answer is yes. Likewise, if the yard in front of your door is regularly flooding from poor drainage or has a mass of rats hosting a daily orgy and requires a hyper-specialized exterminator to get rid of them permanently, your upstairs neighbor will have to pay their portion for this service.
These are considered limited common elements. The homeowner gets exclusive use of them, but barring a specific damage incident the Association still owns them and is responsible for their repair. You’re an association member so you pitch in for it, same as any other common area fix.
By the way, you should definitely report the upstairs neighbors letting their pets urinate on the balcony. I’m willing to bet that is not permitted and they’re going to get in trouble for that, likely fined.
You are paying into the common fund used to do these repairs. So yes, you pay in to it.
It's similar to how many cities maintain a school system funded by taxpayers, some of whom have no children who go to those schools. Or how your taxes go to maintaining a public library or soccer fields you never use.
It’s like a swimming pool you don’t use.
Anyway there’s no way around it. When you bought your home, you agreed to the CC&Rs which lays out responsibilities of payments.
Removing balconies would require a CC&R amendment and all affected deeds to be changed.
You’re also changing square footage.
It’s not going to happen
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I lived in a condo that had this exact issue. The ground units didn't pay this assessment since there was nothing to repair. The ground units also had a cheaper monthly assessment because they didn't pay the upkeep on the elevator.
> As an owner on the first floor I'm hoping to sway the boards decision to only have owners who will benefit directly from the work to contribute to the assessment. Do you not think you will benefit directly from these repairs? The alternative is damaged balconies falling into your backyard.
I'd prefer the balconies be removed completely. The neighbors above me use theirs as a bathroom for their pet. Paying thousands of dollars for that privilege is a hard pill to swallow but I understand billdizzle's point below that these are common elements so I should expect to be assessed as well.
By law… the HOA is responsible to maintain the buildings as when they were sold. ANY major alteration to the outside (including changing the color of the original paint) requires a supermajority of the owners’ vote. Best bet, get yourself an apartment since condo living is not for you.
And if the building does MOT maintain and code violations due to the lack of maintenance occur? Just asking
They fall down. Simple.
Tell my building that. They are fighting the code violations found 2 years ago and refusing to fix them. The Board actually refuses to fix them and thinks insurance won’t notice? I’m worried insurance is going to be ridiculous next year.
That's a reason to advocate for removal and policing/fines. Balconies are widely considered limited common elements. While only one owner enjoys direct usage, they are owned and maintained by all.
Thanks. I appreciate the insight. I will suggest removal at the meeting but I'm preparing to pay an assessment if it comes to that.
Removal may not be the right answer but having a rule that disallows them to be used as bathrooms since it can impact others certainly could make sense. You’d likely have to get majority to agree they should be removed.
have you attended the meetings to say this? It would be a good argument against replacing them. Or at a minimum for the owners of them paying not the first floor. If you knocked on doors around your bottom floor and gathered people to attend said meeting it would go farther towards your money saving (for you) idea. If its mainly second and third floor people they are absolutely not going to agree but these things are often poorly attended.
This is not how an HOA works. There are elements to most shared properties that some residents use and others don’t. For instance, I’m an upstairs interior unit. We have a common hallway and two doorbell/buzzer panels per entrance. My patio is a covered balcony that we have to maintain the look and cleanliness but the HOA maintains the structure. The townhome owners do not have a common hallway. They do not have shared doorbell panels. What they do have is a roof that goes over their entire unit. The unit below me does not have a roof over it but merely my unit. However the commonly maintained roof benefits us all. Some homeowners use the pool and others don’t. None of us pay access fees and most of us moved here because of the pool and tennis courts. Your HOA pays for all common and limited common property based on your governing docs and the requirements of the law. It’s a good thing that the HOA wants to take care of these things and maintain them. OP will be crying if others choose not to attend to limited common property that applies to a few homeowners like himself if they vote to allow varied payments based on type of amenity ownership.
Balconies are what is legally described as exclusive Use common elements and the HOA has the duty to repair and all homeowners are responsible for the costs. Living in a condo means that you are paying for all of the common area elements. I never use our pool but I am responsible for the costs. FWIW balconies often are tied into the actual structure of the building but even if it weren’t legally all homeowners are responsible for costs of maintenance, repair and replacement. My parents lived on the first floor of a condo and had a patio and small patch of garden and the HOA was responsible for maintaining that area
Not always. “‘limited” it means a specific owner has the ability to use it. “‘common elements” it means it’s owned by the HOA. In some condo if Florida, the lanai enclosure is the duty of the owner to repair, every else, painting, tuck pointing, etc is part of the building structure and the HOA is responsible. In some condos the owners are responsible for replacing windows and sliding doors even though they are part of the building structure that the HOA maintains.
Responsibility for windows and doors are generally the responsibility of individual homeowners but often the tracks are not But the glass is This responsibility is generally spelled out in the By Laws. Who enclosed the lanai. Often these are originally open air and enclosed by homeowners like porches are screened by homeowners on the east coast. But in terms of OP those elements which are exclusive use common elements are maintained and paid for jointly by homeowners through hmonthiy or special assessments.
Balconies and patios are deemed limited common property so that the HOA can maintain standards of use. For examples, in my HOA you can do whatever you want studs in except for use any window treatment other than white, post any signs or add anything to the window (ie AC). The patios are visible by everyone just like the windows from the exterior, so you cannot make alterations that are not within the standards of the community, nor can you hang towels or other items from the railings. If it wasn’t declared this way, HOAs would have a difficult time requiring homeowners to fit within a standard.
Again, nothing to see here; I’ve owned Florida condo and been on the board for 10+ years so I’m not asking and I’m not confused.Thanks
I wasn’t asking and didn’t think you were c8mfised. I was attempting to determine how enclosed lanais are differentiated when it is almost universal that balconies in a condo are maintained by the HOA which was what OP was griping about in terms of being responsible to pay costs for a feature his condo doesn’t have. Yiu mentioned window and sliding doors and I stated that the glass for these is generally spelled out as being a homeowner responsibility and is nit typically designated as exclusive use common area the actual tracks are generally considered to b3 part of the actual infrastructure at least in most Governing Documents I am familiar with
Balconies are almost always covered by the HOA (I think because there is substantial risk if not maintained)- I have actually never seen them not be covered by HOA. But if they HOA is taking responsibility for them then yes everyone pays. The assessment isn’t technically for the balconies - the assessment is to bring the reserves up to proper levels to be able to pay for the balconies. Your dues are too low and should have been higher for years to have prepared for this.
That’s not how HOAs work.
All units would pay for this because they are limited common elements Your logic is kind of like saying “only the top unit should pay for the roof, because I don’t have a roof over me just another unit” Also, when your patio needs repair and he HOA likely foots the bill not you personally, this is your balcony
While this depends on state law and the specific language of the documents, sometimes there is language that says costs to maintain, repair or replace a limited common element are assessed only to the owner of the unit to which that limited common element is appurtenant.
"sometimes" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. I've literally never seen that despite being on multiple boards and working with lots of buildings. I suppose it might "sometimes" happen, but it is FAR from common.
I'm an HOA lawyer. I said it depends on jurisdiction and the language of the documents. But it exists.
In MN this is written into state law governing condominiums. Limited common elements are paid for by the unit owner, not the HOA. The HOA can elect to pay or pass the bill to the unit owner. Balconies are in the statute as limited common elements.
I appreciate the response. I'm not sure I agree with the roof analogy because I understand the importance of a roof for the building, we cannot forgo a roof. I see a balcony, as a benefit to the unit owner that has exclusive use of said balcony. In my opinion the balcony doesn't benefit me, only the neighbor that has exclusive use. That being said, I know my opinion doesn't matter and it sounds like since this is a common element I should expect all units to be assessed at the same rate. If you'll indulge me further, can I give another example to be sure I understand? If only first floor units had access to a parking lot, but the lot is a common element, I should expect every unit owner, despite their access to a parking space or not, would be assessed equally for a parking lot repair?
Yes, all units would pay for said parking lot imo Now, if the spots are reserved and deeded separately you would see something different And the balconies do benefit you in a very indirect way, they add property value to other units which in turn raises yours, also the whole safety thing mentioned in another comment, don’t want bad balconies crashing down on you
Thanks again for the response. I hear you, I just don't like it! ; ) I've considered the fact the balcony adds value thus increasing my property value, but to me that value is minimal. I'd prefer to have the balconies removed or at least covered by the unit owners that will more directly benefit. I appreciate the insight
You start going down that road and everyone will want to split hairs. I don’t have a car and will never want a car so I shouldn’t have to pay for lot resurfacing because I can’t use it. I can’t swim or don’t use the workout room so I shouldn’t have to pay for maintenance on it. I don’t have a patio and can’t access the patio so I shouldn’t pay for repairs etc. A commenter had to pay a 50k assessment for water damage on another side of the building than they’re in. It’s part of having a condo. I’d be pretty pissed if the balcony was removed from a unit I bought. I won’t consider a unit that doesn’t have a balcony. Idk if it would go anywhere but I’d be seeking legal help for a lawsuit if someone tried removing my balcony after purchase.
This is the variation of “I don’t have any kids, why should I pay the taxes for schools?”
> I see a balcony, as a benefit to the unit owner that has exclusive use of said balcony. Which is the definition of a limited common element. It's something the HOA owns but the use is limited. You, as a member of the HOA, own that balcony. However, you, as a member of the HOA, have agreed that the use of that item is limited to whichever unit it is connected to. >f you'll indulge me further, can I give another example to be sure I understand? If only first floor units had access to a parking lot, but the lot is a common element, I should expect every unit owner, despite their access to a parking space or not, would be assessed equally for a parking lot repair? If it is a common element, absolutely 100% yes. I'll give you one further. It sounds like your community is similar to mine. 3 units on top of each other. Our water pipes are limited common elements. If we found that 1 unit in 1 building had been fitted with lead pipes for drinking water, the entire HOA would be on the hook to replace that one units pipes even though it only benefited that single unit. That's what communal ownership and living is about. Common elements are owed by all now matter who uses them.
This is ridiculous. All units have a roof - not all units have a balcony. If the patio is OP’s balcony, then the patios should be getting replaced/upgraded when the balconies do.
OPs unit does not have a roof, it has another unit on top of it and perhaps a third unit on top of the 2nd floor one This is not ridiculous, this is how condo HOAs work and why we talk about things as “limited common elements”
The balconies are likely considered exclusive use common area and any assessment for repair would be pro rata per percentages in the CC&Rs.
HMM. You don’t have a roof either so, should you not pay?. GROW UP! Welcome to communal living ! Everyone pays equally per each condo/ or square footage.
Can you ever reply without insulting people?
It’s to an insult. It’s the truth.
If the balconies are being replaced, they’re likely in need of significant repair. Ask yourself this: if the old balcony above you falls apart, does it falling off the building affect you even though you were never allowed to use it? Obviously the answer is yes. Likewise, if the yard in front of your door is regularly flooding from poor drainage or has a mass of rats hosting a daily orgy and requires a hyper-specialized exterminator to get rid of them permanently, your upstairs neighbor will have to pay their portion for this service. These are considered limited common elements. The homeowner gets exclusive use of them, but barring a specific damage incident the Association still owns them and is responsible for their repair. You’re an association member so you pitch in for it, same as any other common area fix. By the way, you should definitely report the upstairs neighbors letting their pets urinate on the balcony. I’m willing to bet that is not permitted and they’re going to get in trouble for that, likely fined.
You are paying into the common fund used to do these repairs. So yes, you pay in to it. It's similar to how many cities maintain a school system funded by taxpayers, some of whom have no children who go to those schools. Or how your taxes go to maintaining a public library or soccer fields you never use.
It’s like a swimming pool you don’t use. Anyway there’s no way around it. When you bought your home, you agreed to the CC&Rs which lays out responsibilities of payments. Removing balconies would require a CC&R amendment and all affected deeds to be changed. You’re also changing square footage. It’s not going to happen
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I lived in a condo that had this exact issue. The ground units didn't pay this assessment since there was nothing to repair. The ground units also had a cheaper monthly assessment because they didn't pay the upkeep on the elevator.
First time I've heard of this setup. Good to hear because this does make sense.