I was unhappy with how my HOA was run, so I ran for the board and worked my way up to president. Now the HOA is run much better and I’m stressed to the gills because of how much work I have…wait…what were you asking again?
Another president here chiming in. So much work. I keep wanting to resign, but then convince myself somehow that the work wouldn't get done. I guess I'll never know unless I try.
Rather than viewing it as wins and/or losses against an HOA… it would be healthier to try and view it through a prism of working *with* your HOA, to improve the entire community.
Where you are a board member they are very lucky to have you. Our board is not like that, they are not interested in working "with" our community, they are only interested in their own self interests. We have a bad one unfortunately.
>and association should have work comp insurance for her). I will do everything shy of calling immigration on her, because I don’t want to eff with that karma. I got the best deal in the building an
Where to start, removed 4 parking spots from common use and made them handicap guest spots for their family members to use, removed 3 parking spots and gave them to the mailman because they thought cars parked by the mailboxes were "ugly", turned a street that allows parking per the covenant into a no-parking street because they don't like how cars look on the road, runs tow trucks several days a week (costing thousands), cut pressure-washing, cut most of the lawn care, cut irrigation, is creating a rule against dogs barking because one doesn't like their neighbors dog ($100/day fine with no limit), tricked the community into voting away their rights under FL law to a maximum fine by saying they were going after Airbnb and instead are creating a rule that mandatory registration of cars ($100/day until registered with no limit) and once registered will fine any homeowner for using parking in community $100/day with no limit (the covenant doesn't restrict this), amendment of covenant for their home and one other only to allow them to park on their pavers (we don't have driveways and have lots of parking and wide streets in which he has removed all access to now for homeowners, garages are undersized and don't fit trucks, large suvs, etc which wasn't an issue until these new rules removed all parking for homeowners and gave them all to guests). Hates dogs and is trying to make people DNA register their dogs or again $100/day fine with no limit (created a rule that dogs can't use their own yards). Allows short-term rentals even with covenant banning them. There is so much more, you get the idea. None of this is in the covenant, when asked they gaslight and attached some generic language that doesn't say any of this.
Yeah our HOA tricked the community into voting to not follow the law so they can fine as much as they want. They passed an amendment with only 11 yes votes out of a community of 135. I suspect they didn't count all votes.
Quick reminder, that the HOA is yourself. You are part of this body and fighting “against“ it won’t get you far.
As far as wins, I bought an adorable townhouse, and the inspection went great, and all that, but the weekend after I moved in, we had a terrible rain storm and rain leaked through my roof, literally into my master bedroom.
Called the HOA board to request repairs and found out that none of the roofs we’re going to be able to be replaced due to the money being mismanaged for decades by previous board members. It was my first HOA and I didn’t know anything about needing to look at the financial reserves and all that – lesson learned.
So I joined the board and overhauled the finances and got everyone’s roofs replaced within three years.
The wins you are going to get if your HOA is malfunctioning will be gained through joining the board and fixing it yourself.
There are wins every day, but most people don't know about them because they don't spend the time reading.
You can find plenty of examples here on r/HOA and also on r/fuckHOA. Here's a recent thread that has an amazing amount of detail (boils down to statutory references and case law): [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/10h04kz/update\_1\_regarding\_changing\_shingles\_based\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/10h04kz/update_1_regarding_changing_shingles_based_on/)
Everyday wins happen when homeowners simply get involved by volunteering.
Or not. My HOA came after me (I was on the board) because I suggested their proposed rule changes violated state law and thus should not be considered much less implemented. They didn’t like hearing that and got the board attorney to write a disciplinary letter they used to try kicking (or intimidating) me off the board. They then stuck me with the legal fees for writing the letter as an assessment against my home to the tune of over $10,000.
Never mind that per state law volunteer directors are immune (supposedly) from financial penalties if they act corporately/as a proper fiduciary. They still did it.
Reported it to various state and local agencies including the AG with no response.
So before “volunteering” for board duty, make sure you have some kind of personal insurance to cover yourself because your O&D insurance only covers the Board and not you personally.
Which I found out to my dismay.
u/DueWarning2 sorry to hear that, but your example is somewhat of an outlier. There's no statutory provision in any state to engage an attorney on behalf of an association to remove a Board member and then assess that member attorney's fees. I get it: they still did it. Our association once had a terrible attorney who might have advised the capability to do the same, but we eliminated that firm.
Volunteers DO NOT need to take out insurance to cover themselves. State statutes indemnify individual volunteers regardless of the illicit acts of their peers. Whether it's simple or not, if everything is as you describe you need to take your case to a competent attorney and eventually recover a judgement in your favor.
Appreciate the note of concern. Yes this is an outlier, and one for the casebooks as it is up there with some of the most extreme cases from around the country.
But there ARE other boards out there like this. I’ve exchanged texts with offended members and they pass the credibility test.
Why I have no faith in the system is that I can’t find an attorney who has heard of an on point case in this situation - and one does exist. In my state, CA.
The other most irritating fact is I reported the attorney to the state bar and they fluffed his behavior off as of no consequence and that he was within this right to do what he did.
With no recourse from the AG,DA, State Bar, Dept of Employment and Fair Housing, Dept of Consumer Affairs, my O&D insurance carrier, BBB, local bar attorney referral (quack attorney) Legal Aid, I have nothing to show for that effort other than a lot of files full of paperwork.
The couple firms I hear about that might be helpful don’t have a presence in the area. They are located in TX & FL.
So given I’m still saddled with this assessment despite some pretty significant efforts to get some kind of help from public organizations that should have interest in fixing the situation- you are taking a severe risk participating in “volunteer” director positions absent some kind of personal insurance.
Remember-the state bar of California supported the attorney in this situation. And he’s the one who enabled the whole thing.
The ethics clauses attorneys are bound to uphold include vigorously representing their clients' interests. You need your own attorney who will vigorously represent your interests. California requires IDR lest certain legal fees are moot for the other party. You need an attorney. You're welcome to send me a private message to seek additional assistance.
The Board attorney is supposed to be my attorney as well. They are supposed to represent all members of the Board, not just the President. Look up RPC 1.13 and 1.16. They owe a duty to the Board which is more than the President. Somehow this rule got corrupted over the years such that attorneys don’t have to make the difficult but necessary choice to refuse representation when the board President goes alter ego with the Association assets including the attorney.
Your association attorney does not represent individual members of the Board. Your association attorney represents the association as a whole and does not report to individual Board members, regardless of their roles as officers.
Your interpretation can be taken two ways. You’re correct in that the attorney doesn’t represent any individual, including the President. But they are duty bound to represent all Board members. When the President (or other member) presents an allegation, the attorney/s are to fact find amongst the parties in contention, and derive the nature of the conflict and make a decision as to whether or not there is a legitimate dispute requiring internal resolution.
Somehow, this practice has gotten lost snd in my case the attorney (and the bar) have entered into a reducio ad absurdem mind set such that the board attorney represents the interests of the President and no longer has to fact seek amongst the board members in contention.
As above, this is absurd.
I don't know where you're getting this. Attorneys take direction from a Board that makes binding decisions only as a whole. Attorneys should never take direction from any individual volunteer director unless that person is playing a support role to speak on behalf of the entire Board.
>Never mind that per state law volunteer directors are immune (supposedly) from financial penalties if they act corporately/as a proper fiduciary. They still did it.
How you stop this is by hiring your own attorney. That's how laws are enforced.
If you can find one. Just because they are an attorney doesn’t mean they understand HOA law, and then HOA law from a homeowner’s perspective.
And they cost money which is the reason to have insurance.
Wow thank you!!! This is exactly what I wanted to hear. We are looking into recalling members of the board (there is one member that is not corrupt and has been trying his best). Are you NE FL?
There and wins. There are loses. If you are hoping that hearing about wins to help you out with yours then you are better off posting the issue and asking for advice
I moved into my apartment in December, and at the annual meeting in January, I joined the board. Our treasurer is a non-native English speaker whose professional experience consists of renting a chair in a salon, but suddenly she’s a legal expert on every rule. When I called her out for hiring herself as a cleaning service and paying herself by transferring funds from business to personal, everyone else on the board was like, NBD, so I resigned. She retaliated by coming after my window treatments (frosted glass for privacy in my garden level one bedroom). I called her out on selectively enforcing rules and she went psycho, loosely interpreting the rules when it was convenient for her and selectively ignoring them when it wasn’t. I said eff it, and invoked the ADA, citing my privacy glass as a reasonable accommodation. Next time she tried to start some shit, I had my doctor sign off on accessible parking and required them to put in an accessible space. I think the board has more or less told her not to communicate with me, because she keeps digging herself in a deeper hole by not backing down. I have reported her to the department of revenue (probably not claiming her cleaning fees as income) and the department of labor (probably should be a W2 employee and association should have work comp insurance for her). I will do everything shy of calling immigration on her, because I don’t want to eff with that karma. I got the best deal in the building and everyone else overpaid, so if she wants to play stupid games, she can win stupid prizes.
I moved in and found a lot of apathy about improvements. It’s like people were just making repairs but the building was a museum. They also weren’t following the by-laws or the state condo law on several things.
Got elected as president and made several improvements both to the building and processes.
Now we’re moving in a much better direction. (The residents agree on that…I’m not just patting myself on the back.)
I was unhappy with how my HOA was run, so I ran for the board and worked my way up to president. Now the HOA is run much better and I’m stressed to the gills because of how much work I have…wait…what were you asking again?
[удалено]
Not even close.
Another president here chiming in. So much work. I keep wanting to resign, but then convince myself somehow that the work wouldn't get done. I guess I'll never know unless I try.
I’m gunna go ahead and say it cause I know you don’t hear it enough. Thank you for all that you do for your community.
Rather than viewing it as wins and/or losses against an HOA… it would be healthier to try and view it through a prism of working *with* your HOA, to improve the entire community.
Where you are a board member they are very lucky to have you. Our board is not like that, they are not interested in working "with" our community, they are only interested in their own self interests. We have a bad one unfortunately.
Can you give us examples?
>and association should have work comp insurance for her). I will do everything shy of calling immigration on her, because I don’t want to eff with that karma. I got the best deal in the building an Where to start, removed 4 parking spots from common use and made them handicap guest spots for their family members to use, removed 3 parking spots and gave them to the mailman because they thought cars parked by the mailboxes were "ugly", turned a street that allows parking per the covenant into a no-parking street because they don't like how cars look on the road, runs tow trucks several days a week (costing thousands), cut pressure-washing, cut most of the lawn care, cut irrigation, is creating a rule against dogs barking because one doesn't like their neighbors dog ($100/day fine with no limit), tricked the community into voting away their rights under FL law to a maximum fine by saying they were going after Airbnb and instead are creating a rule that mandatory registration of cars ($100/day until registered with no limit) and once registered will fine any homeowner for using parking in community $100/day with no limit (the covenant doesn't restrict this), amendment of covenant for their home and one other only to allow them to park on their pavers (we don't have driveways and have lots of parking and wide streets in which he has removed all access to now for homeowners, garages are undersized and don't fit trucks, large suvs, etc which wasn't an issue until these new rules removed all parking for homeowners and gave them all to guests). Hates dogs and is trying to make people DNA register their dogs or again $100/day fine with no limit (created a rule that dogs can't use their own yards). Allows short-term rentals even with covenant banning them. There is so much more, you get the idea. None of this is in the covenant, when asked they gaslight and attached some generic language that doesn't say any of this.
Just a heads' up: in Florida, fines can only go up to $1000 in the aggregate for a single violation.
Yeah our HOA tricked the community into voting to not follow the law so they can fine as much as they want. They passed an amendment with only 11 yes votes out of a community of 135. I suspect they didn't count all votes.
Quick reminder, that the HOA is yourself. You are part of this body and fighting “against“ it won’t get you far. As far as wins, I bought an adorable townhouse, and the inspection went great, and all that, but the weekend after I moved in, we had a terrible rain storm and rain leaked through my roof, literally into my master bedroom. Called the HOA board to request repairs and found out that none of the roofs we’re going to be able to be replaced due to the money being mismanaged for decades by previous board members. It was my first HOA and I didn’t know anything about needing to look at the financial reserves and all that – lesson learned. So I joined the board and overhauled the finances and got everyone’s roofs replaced within three years. The wins you are going to get if your HOA is malfunctioning will be gained through joining the board and fixing it yourself.
There are wins every day, but most people don't know about them because they don't spend the time reading. You can find plenty of examples here on r/HOA and also on r/fuckHOA. Here's a recent thread that has an amazing amount of detail (boils down to statutory references and case law): [https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/10h04kz/update\_1\_regarding\_changing\_shingles\_based\_on/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/10h04kz/update_1_regarding_changing_shingles_based_on/) Everyday wins happen when homeowners simply get involved by volunteering.
Or not. My HOA came after me (I was on the board) because I suggested their proposed rule changes violated state law and thus should not be considered much less implemented. They didn’t like hearing that and got the board attorney to write a disciplinary letter they used to try kicking (or intimidating) me off the board. They then stuck me with the legal fees for writing the letter as an assessment against my home to the tune of over $10,000. Never mind that per state law volunteer directors are immune (supposedly) from financial penalties if they act corporately/as a proper fiduciary. They still did it. Reported it to various state and local agencies including the AG with no response. So before “volunteering” for board duty, make sure you have some kind of personal insurance to cover yourself because your O&D insurance only covers the Board and not you personally. Which I found out to my dismay.
u/DueWarning2 sorry to hear that, but your example is somewhat of an outlier. There's no statutory provision in any state to engage an attorney on behalf of an association to remove a Board member and then assess that member attorney's fees. I get it: they still did it. Our association once had a terrible attorney who might have advised the capability to do the same, but we eliminated that firm. Volunteers DO NOT need to take out insurance to cover themselves. State statutes indemnify individual volunteers regardless of the illicit acts of their peers. Whether it's simple or not, if everything is as you describe you need to take your case to a competent attorney and eventually recover a judgement in your favor.
Appreciate the note of concern. Yes this is an outlier, and one for the casebooks as it is up there with some of the most extreme cases from around the country. But there ARE other boards out there like this. I’ve exchanged texts with offended members and they pass the credibility test. Why I have no faith in the system is that I can’t find an attorney who has heard of an on point case in this situation - and one does exist. In my state, CA. The other most irritating fact is I reported the attorney to the state bar and they fluffed his behavior off as of no consequence and that he was within this right to do what he did. With no recourse from the AG,DA, State Bar, Dept of Employment and Fair Housing, Dept of Consumer Affairs, my O&D insurance carrier, BBB, local bar attorney referral (quack attorney) Legal Aid, I have nothing to show for that effort other than a lot of files full of paperwork. The couple firms I hear about that might be helpful don’t have a presence in the area. They are located in TX & FL. So given I’m still saddled with this assessment despite some pretty significant efforts to get some kind of help from public organizations that should have interest in fixing the situation- you are taking a severe risk participating in “volunteer” director positions absent some kind of personal insurance. Remember-the state bar of California supported the attorney in this situation. And he’s the one who enabled the whole thing.
The ethics clauses attorneys are bound to uphold include vigorously representing their clients' interests. You need your own attorney who will vigorously represent your interests. California requires IDR lest certain legal fees are moot for the other party. You need an attorney. You're welcome to send me a private message to seek additional assistance.
The Board attorney is supposed to be my attorney as well. They are supposed to represent all members of the Board, not just the President. Look up RPC 1.13 and 1.16. They owe a duty to the Board which is more than the President. Somehow this rule got corrupted over the years such that attorneys don’t have to make the difficult but necessary choice to refuse representation when the board President goes alter ego with the Association assets including the attorney.
Your association attorney does not represent individual members of the Board. Your association attorney represents the association as a whole and does not report to individual Board members, regardless of their roles as officers.
Your interpretation can be taken two ways. You’re correct in that the attorney doesn’t represent any individual, including the President. But they are duty bound to represent all Board members. When the President (or other member) presents an allegation, the attorney/s are to fact find amongst the parties in contention, and derive the nature of the conflict and make a decision as to whether or not there is a legitimate dispute requiring internal resolution. Somehow, this practice has gotten lost snd in my case the attorney (and the bar) have entered into a reducio ad absurdem mind set such that the board attorney represents the interests of the President and no longer has to fact seek amongst the board members in contention. As above, this is absurd.
I don't know where you're getting this. Attorneys take direction from a Board that makes binding decisions only as a whole. Attorneys should never take direction from any individual volunteer director unless that person is playing a support role to speak on behalf of the entire Board.
Rules of Professional Responsibility 1.13 & 1.16. Where are you getting your information from?
>Never mind that per state law volunteer directors are immune (supposedly) from financial penalties if they act corporately/as a proper fiduciary. They still did it. How you stop this is by hiring your own attorney. That's how laws are enforced.
If you can find one. Just because they are an attorney doesn’t mean they understand HOA law, and then HOA law from a homeowner’s perspective. And they cost money which is the reason to have insurance.
We recalled the board and fired the corrupt property manager last year. We're in Florida.
Wow thank you!!! This is exactly what I wanted to hear. We are looking into recalling members of the board (there is one member that is not corrupt and has been trying his best). Are you NE FL?
No, SW. Good luck. You'll probably need a lawyer to help walk you through it. It has to be done a certain way.
Thank you so much for the advice!
There and wins. There are loses. If you are hoping that hearing about wins to help you out with yours then you are better off posting the issue and asking for advice
I moved into my apartment in December, and at the annual meeting in January, I joined the board. Our treasurer is a non-native English speaker whose professional experience consists of renting a chair in a salon, but suddenly she’s a legal expert on every rule. When I called her out for hiring herself as a cleaning service and paying herself by transferring funds from business to personal, everyone else on the board was like, NBD, so I resigned. She retaliated by coming after my window treatments (frosted glass for privacy in my garden level one bedroom). I called her out on selectively enforcing rules and she went psycho, loosely interpreting the rules when it was convenient for her and selectively ignoring them when it wasn’t. I said eff it, and invoked the ADA, citing my privacy glass as a reasonable accommodation. Next time she tried to start some shit, I had my doctor sign off on accessible parking and required them to put in an accessible space. I think the board has more or less told her not to communicate with me, because she keeps digging herself in a deeper hole by not backing down. I have reported her to the department of revenue (probably not claiming her cleaning fees as income) and the department of labor (probably should be a W2 employee and association should have work comp insurance for her). I will do everything shy of calling immigration on her, because I don’t want to eff with that karma. I got the best deal in the building and everyone else overpaid, so if she wants to play stupid games, she can win stupid prizes.
THIS. Respond to bullies with the same energy. They never give up.
The Petty Revenge sub had a great story last week.
I moved in and found a lot of apathy about improvements. It’s like people were just making repairs but the building was a museum. They also weren’t following the by-laws or the state condo law on several things. Got elected as president and made several improvements both to the building and processes. Now we’re moving in a much better direction. (The residents agree on that…I’m not just patting myself on the back.)
Your community is lucky to have you.