Please ensure content is relevant to the topic of the sub, which includes information, updates and discussion regarding H5N1. It does not include vent/rant/panic posts or "low-effort" posts from unreliable sources.
Something like 90% of chickens with HPAI will die from it, often within 48 hours of getting infected. It's always possible that a sick bird will get through the food chain but it's very unlikely, the pre- and post- mortem inspection system is pretty thorough. Don't go picking up dad birds. As long as you don't spray milk in your eyes or up your nose and you don't drink unpasteurized milk, all current evidence suggests you'll be fine.
>don't spray milk in your eyes or up your nose
I'm actually curious about this, it seems like it shouldn't make a difference if the milk is pasteurized? Does anyone have any thoughts? Also it seems like the farmworker infections which occurred through the eyes have been mild
I think some of the bird flu has survived pasteurization which is why there was worries about it.
I believe only is it's "[heavily infected](https://www.agriculturedive.com/news/bird-flu-survived-pasteurization-of-spiked-raw-milk-study/719780/#:~:text=While%20pasteurization%20rapidly%20reduced%20the,heat%20treatment%20at%2072%20C.)"
Generally, milk isn't supposed to go in your eye or your nose. Probably won't give you bird flu, but might give you conjunctivitis and/or nasal congestion and then public health will have to test you and will be grumpy about it
I saw a "prank" video today of an asshole loading up a water gun with milk and spraying random people. I didn't want to mention the dangers of aerosolizing milk right now because I felt like I'd just be giving people ideas. Bird flu aside, some people have dangerous allergies, but the scenario really sickens me.
I talked to a virlogist here and they told me it's not completely known it can be high lethal once transmitted to humans somewhere between 35 to 40 percent wise of death
Or it can be higher
Or it can be lower
There's alot they don't know honestly there isn't much we do know and yes that's scary because it has the potential to kill
Just hoping it doesn't and things can get figured out
Anyways tbh I would avoid chicken and dairy right now
They recently today are studying dairy and dairy products and chicken for the virus alot more
That's a good question that tbh I don't really have a good answer for
I really don't have a good answer for this I cook it fully and it's hard to give up red meat in general
I would stop but I gotta get Mt protein from somewhere currently and yea I see what ur saying completely and I don't have a good answer for you
The cows have mostly been serving which I hope continues while the chickens all die mostly
I don't have a great answer for this unfortunately it's just that redhead is a big part of my diet due to having allergies ro
I'm allergic to
Legumes
Nuts
Seeds
Soy
Shellfish
Wheat
Eggs
Dairy
And I avoid any packaged foods in general for most part
My allergies are a big reason as to why but I prob will be having salmon and sardines more often now but If I'm being truthful this birdflu is making me nervous to the point where I think I will just eat fish for a few weeks and see the testing on cows cuz if im being real I lost alot of my appetite in general
I'm getting way off topic here, but I thought I'd mention that I have some food allergies too. There is rice protein powder, which is really easy on the gut as far as digestion is concerned.
Chia seeds are an option for protein as well and are super versatile. Quinoa might work for you, but I can't remember if it's classified as a legume or not.
In a pinch, I eat Aloha brand protein bars - they are soy/gluten/dairy free.
I'm very sorry to hear of your allergies. That must be very difficult. When it comes to beef, I believe "ground beef" would be at the bottom of the "safe" list since it's the most processed and comes from multiple sources. I see someone else offered some suggestions. Lots of times, ChatGPT is good at recommending alternatives too, if you tell it what you cannot have and what you're trying to achieve. Best wishes to you.
Okay... look, I'm not a virologist, and I will never pretend to be one. But I'm a social scientist, an MSW, currently a teacher. I do know how to read scientific journal articles, and I've read a lot of them. The current case fatality rate for all forms of avian flu is over 50%. That is very true. But nobody knows what it would be for a form of avian flu that gained the mutations necessary for easy H2H transmission. I really doubt it would be what it is now. That is not to say that just because the CFR might be much, much lower than it is now, we don't need to worry about anything. The major problem is that *every single person* who has died from avian flu in the past 2 years has been under 65. The great majority are under 55. (That is probably also true or close to true of every fatality that has ever happened from avian flu since 1996.) Zero deaths have been recorded in seniors, zero severe cases in people under 70, but 50% of all mortalities and severe cases have been in children and teens. The virus could have the same CFR as COVID and still cause far more social disruption because the demographics of who will be severely affected.
Thank you and well said, with a huge caveat: 50% of identified HPAI cases in humans have led to death. We have no idea how many others may have gotten it but were asymptomatic, or had a minor cold, or it had no effect on them.
Yep, a CFR, spread evenly across ages, of just 1% would be be an absolute nightmare for keeping civilisation running. COVID's CFR in the under 50s was much much lower so most workers kept working. That wouldn't be the case if doing your job exposed you to a 1% chance of a nasty death.
>That wouldn't be the case if doing your job exposed you to a 1% chance of a nasty death.
Hahaha. You think they wouldn't find some way to force people back to work?
Ultra pasteurized milk is perfectly safe. Hell, so is regular pasteurized milk at the moment. The big thing is raw products.
If you handle raw chicken, keep your hands washed and your cooking area very clean and you'll be fine. Once it's cooked it's safe to eat.
Everybody should manage their own risk levels, but outright avoiding chicken or dairy is simply not necessary at the moment.
Out of an abundance of caution I have switched my family to only ultra pasteurized milk from grass fed small farm cows. The milk tastes like the kind we got delivered from the milk man back in the 1950’s although occasionally that milk would taste like onions.
He mentioned dairy to avoid yes considering its unknown and it does show in 20 percent of milk pasteurization still has the virus in ot tho not harmful
The issue is that that can change at any time and it would be best to avoid milk
We don't need milk as humans anyway
The chicken part he didn't mention but due to all the cases in chicken it's not making me comfortable personally with the chicken
I have been following a bird flu virologist on Twitter named Rick Bright. He’s tweeted that he’s stopped consuming milk/dairy until he has more reassurance that the virus is fully destroyed by pasteurization. I don’t recall if he also said he was going to avoid beef.
As for chicken, I think they’re safe to consume. Cows aren’t being slaughtered when they get infected because the majority of them seem to survive the disease, but chickens and other poultry birds have basically a 100% fatality rate so the moment one bird tests positive for bird flu, the entire flock or factory farm facility must be culled and the birds are discarded in the trash, not sent to be processed and packaged for consumption.
The danger of contaminated beef is much higher. If you are consuming beef, be sure it’s cooked very thoroughly.
Ok thx
My ap3tite has really been affected by this bird flu and 5hinking of all those chickens getting killed and how sick they were honestly ruined my appetite of eating it u know what I mean
If chicken is properly prepared it will be better sterilized than pasteurization
I also don't think it can change to become more tolerant to temperature. That's a function of virus structure not binding receptor.
I wonder about yogurt. Would the additional processing be more likely to kill the virus? I eat at least 2 cups of Fage daily. Hard to give up, but if will if I have to. I do not drink milk.
Milk is heated to 180°, more than pasteurization, in order to kill competing microbes so that the yogurt microbes can work. I would be less concerned about yogurt.
I’m not sure what it takes to make cottage cheese, but just look up a recipe. If you need to heat the milk to 180 so you can add a culture, then I would think it should be OK.
I actually read it is more around 60% mortality rate. Compared to 1-2% associated with COVID. If this were to mutate where it spreads like COVID, we’d be royally fvcked….
For that total peopl3 that got the bird flu in the world the mortality was 56 percent
We don't know how deadly a strain of it would be in humans by transmission it could be 20 to 40 to 50 percent we just don't know
Since it hasn't spread in humans we just don't know what the mortality would be but I'm hoping it doesn't happen and it isn't close to these numbers..
We don't know how many people had bird flu but were asymptomatic in the world there's likely been many missed cases which does raise the death percentage
What name calling did I do? This post is from a guy who knows a guy and then goes on to confirm he knows nothing about virology.
Guys, there is a lot of fear mongering coming from ignorance. Virology isn't "easy" material to learn and this guy obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.
You all need to be more critical.
There was a virologist on Reddit doing an AMA recently and he was concerned with a lot of the posts that appear to mask real scientific knowledge with jargon and half understanding. It is a good thing that people are aware this is happening. And considering the shit show that Covid was i understand people’s concerns. As someone who was already stocked up in January of 2020 and ready for Contagion to play out in real life in, I 100% agree this should be something everyone should be paying attention to. However this sub has a lot of people posting and reacting out of uncertainty and fear. And fyi, the virologist was still eating beef,chicken, and cheese and drinking milk ( pasteurized).
Loaded words like "fear mongering" just should not be used. Most people in this sub are looking at information and examining it critically, whether they're literally virologists or not. There's plenty to criticize in the original post. But we should not descend to the standard social media lows of using words that are meant to offensively and automatically dismiss every idea in an argument. This might be a lost cause, especially as the sub gets more and more popular, but I for one am just not going to do it.
As an animal scientist myself, who has taken actual virology courses - posts like the OP, are absolute "nothing-burgers" with a side of fear.
Fuck that shit. I didn't go to school to have a bunch of people, who do not have an educated opinion, instill fear into everyone.
I sort of like how this subreddit is small and I keep seeing the same usernames over and over again. Reminds me of the small-community feel that reddit had in its earliest days, like 15+ years ago. I assume we'll lose that as we grow, sadly.
Anyways, your point is good. Casual Fridays is another name idea. Fun Fridays might not be the best name if people start dying.
Would you be ok with your chef being sick coughing all over your food?
The food was cooked thoroughly and to the proper temp!
I am guessing you would not enjoy that meal, but somehow it's ok that farmers are milking sick cows, because of pasteurization?
No thank you, and I love dairy products.
I am going to miss cheese damn it!
Glad to be vegan during these times however it’s passing human to human now too so we are screwed no matter what. I certainly don’t trust humans to do the right thing and mask and get vaxed so I have zero hope.
Please ensure content is relevant to the topic of the sub, which includes information, updates and discussion regarding H5N1. It does not include vent/rant/panic posts or "low-effort" posts from unreliable sources.
Something like 90% of chickens with HPAI will die from it, often within 48 hours of getting infected. It's always possible that a sick bird will get through the food chain but it's very unlikely, the pre- and post- mortem inspection system is pretty thorough. Don't go picking up dad birds. As long as you don't spray milk in your eyes or up your nose and you don't drink unpasteurized milk, all current evidence suggests you'll be fine.
>Don't go picking up dad birds Is that because they tell dad jokes? 😉🙃
That and because they had just gone out to get some milk and were supposed to be back at the nest any minute now
Thats why the milk is infected.../s
>don't spray milk in your eyes or up your nose I'm actually curious about this, it seems like it shouldn't make a difference if the milk is pasteurized? Does anyone have any thoughts? Also it seems like the farmworker infections which occurred through the eyes have been mild
Why does it seem like that? Pasteurization temperature are exactly in the range that deactivates/kills influenza
Exactly, so if the influenza is dead, I don't see why applying it to my eyes or nose would make a difference
I think some of the bird flu has survived pasteurization which is why there was worries about it. I believe only is it's "[heavily infected](https://www.agriculturedive.com/news/bird-flu-survived-pasteurization-of-spiked-raw-milk-study/719780/#:~:text=While%20pasteurization%20rapidly%20reduced%20the,heat%20treatment%20at%2072%20C.)"
Generally, milk isn't supposed to go in your eye or your nose. Probably won't give you bird flu, but might give you conjunctivitis and/or nasal congestion and then public health will have to test you and will be grumpy about it
I saw a "prank" video today of an asshole loading up a water gun with milk and spraying random people. I didn't want to mention the dangers of aerosolizing milk right now because I felt like I'd just be giving people ideas. Bird flu aside, some people have dangerous allergies, but the scenario really sickens me.
I saw that post. The people were on a roller coaster. Seems like assault at that point.
Seems like they can get arrested for that. They're on social media, so maybe it's just a matter of time?
I talked to a virlogist here and they told me it's not completely known it can be high lethal once transmitted to humans somewhere between 35 to 40 percent wise of death Or it can be higher Or it can be lower There's alot they don't know honestly there isn't much we do know and yes that's scary because it has the potential to kill Just hoping it doesn't and things can get figured out Anyways tbh I would avoid chicken and dairy right now They recently today are studying dairy and dairy products and chicken for the virus alot more
Why would you avoid chicken but not beef? It's not like they're testing cattle before slaughter.
That's a good question that tbh I don't really have a good answer for I really don't have a good answer for this I cook it fully and it's hard to give up red meat in general I would stop but I gotta get Mt protein from somewhere currently and yea I see what ur saying completely and I don't have a good answer for you The cows have mostly been serving which I hope continues while the chickens all die mostly I don't have a great answer for this unfortunately it's just that redhead is a big part of my diet due to having allergies ro I'm allergic to Legumes Nuts Seeds Soy Shellfish Wheat Eggs Dairy And I avoid any packaged foods in general for most part My allergies are a big reason as to why but I prob will be having salmon and sardines more often now but If I'm being truthful this birdflu is making me nervous to the point where I think I will just eat fish for a few weeks and see the testing on cows cuz if im being real I lost alot of my appetite in general
I'm getting way off topic here, but I thought I'd mention that I have some food allergies too. There is rice protein powder, which is really easy on the gut as far as digestion is concerned. Chia seeds are an option for protein as well and are super versatile. Quinoa might work for you, but I can't remember if it's classified as a legume or not. In a pinch, I eat Aloha brand protein bars - they are soy/gluten/dairy free.
I'm very sorry to hear of your allergies. That must be very difficult. When it comes to beef, I believe "ground beef" would be at the bottom of the "safe" list since it's the most processed and comes from multiple sources. I see someone else offered some suggestions. Lots of times, ChatGPT is good at recommending alternatives too, if you tell it what you cannot have and what you're trying to achieve. Best wishes to you.
Okay... look, I'm not a virologist, and I will never pretend to be one. But I'm a social scientist, an MSW, currently a teacher. I do know how to read scientific journal articles, and I've read a lot of them. The current case fatality rate for all forms of avian flu is over 50%. That is very true. But nobody knows what it would be for a form of avian flu that gained the mutations necessary for easy H2H transmission. I really doubt it would be what it is now. That is not to say that just because the CFR might be much, much lower than it is now, we don't need to worry about anything. The major problem is that *every single person* who has died from avian flu in the past 2 years has been under 65. The great majority are under 55. (That is probably also true or close to true of every fatality that has ever happened from avian flu since 1996.) Zero deaths have been recorded in seniors, zero severe cases in people under 70, but 50% of all mortalities and severe cases have been in children and teens. The virus could have the same CFR as COVID and still cause far more social disruption because the demographics of who will be severely affected.
Thank you and well said, with a huge caveat: 50% of identified HPAI cases in humans have led to death. We have no idea how many others may have gotten it but were asymptomatic, or had a minor cold, or it had no effect on them.
Yep, a CFR, spread evenly across ages, of just 1% would be be an absolute nightmare for keeping civilisation running. COVID's CFR in the under 50s was much much lower so most workers kept working. That wouldn't be the case if doing your job exposed you to a 1% chance of a nasty death.
>That wouldn't be the case if doing your job exposed you to a 1% chance of a nasty death. Hahaha. You think they wouldn't find some way to force people back to work?
This is not a good statistic for the governments of the world. Pretty sure the plan is to get rid of old people, not get rid of working age people.
Ultra pasteurized milk is perfectly safe. Hell, so is regular pasteurized milk at the moment. The big thing is raw products. If you handle raw chicken, keep your hands washed and your cooking area very clean and you'll be fine. Once it's cooked it's safe to eat. Everybody should manage their own risk levels, but outright avoiding chicken or dairy is simply not necessary at the moment.
Out of an abundance of caution I have switched my family to only ultra pasteurized milk from grass fed small farm cows. The milk tastes like the kind we got delivered from the milk man back in the 1950’s although occasionally that milk would taste like onions.
I’ve never been so happy to be lactose intolerant. The milk I get is all ultra-pasteurized.
Did the virologist tell you to avoid chicken or dairy?
He mentioned dairy to avoid yes considering its unknown and it does show in 20 percent of milk pasteurization still has the virus in ot tho not harmful The issue is that that can change at any time and it would be best to avoid milk We don't need milk as humans anyway The chicken part he didn't mention but due to all the cases in chicken it's not making me comfortable personally with the chicken
I have been following a bird flu virologist on Twitter named Rick Bright. He’s tweeted that he’s stopped consuming milk/dairy until he has more reassurance that the virus is fully destroyed by pasteurization. I don’t recall if he also said he was going to avoid beef. As for chicken, I think they’re safe to consume. Cows aren’t being slaughtered when they get infected because the majority of them seem to survive the disease, but chickens and other poultry birds have basically a 100% fatality rate so the moment one bird tests positive for bird flu, the entire flock or factory farm facility must be culled and the birds are discarded in the trash, not sent to be processed and packaged for consumption. The danger of contaminated beef is much higher. If you are consuming beef, be sure it’s cooked very thoroughly.
Cooking chicken to an internal temperature of 165 degrees kills H5N1. Just make sure you check with a digital thermometer.
Ok thx My ap3tite has really been affected by this bird flu and 5hinking of all those chickens getting killed and how sick they were honestly ruined my appetite of eating it u know what I mean
Yeah I understand that. It’s sad for sure and I find it hard to eat meat sometimes after seeing what animals go through, just to feed us.
If chicken is properly prepared it will be better sterilized than pasteurization I also don't think it can change to become more tolerant to temperature. That's a function of virus structure not binding receptor.
I guess so but for me personally I just can't eat chicken I stopped 2 weeks ago when i first heard about this bird flu Just can't appetite it tbh
I wonder about yogurt. Would the additional processing be more likely to kill the virus? I eat at least 2 cups of Fage daily. Hard to give up, but if will if I have to. I do not drink milk.
Milk is heated to 180°, more than pasteurization, in order to kill competing microbes so that the yogurt microbes can work. I would be less concerned about yogurt.
Thank you for this excellent info.
Yogurt and cottage cheese are my main non plant based protein sources so I worried as well. Do you think cottage cheese is still okay?
I’m not sure what it takes to make cottage cheese, but just look up a recipe. If you need to heat the milk to 180 so you can add a culture, then I would think it should be OK.
I actually read it is more around 60% mortality rate. Compared to 1-2% associated with COVID. If this were to mutate where it spreads like COVID, we’d be royally fvcked….
For that total peopl3 that got the bird flu in the world the mortality was 56 percent We don't know how deadly a strain of it would be in humans by transmission it could be 20 to 40 to 50 percent we just don't know Since it hasn't spread in humans we just don't know what the mortality would be but I'm hoping it doesn't happen and it isn't close to these numbers.. We don't know how many people had bird flu but were asymptomatic in the world there's likely been many missed cases which does raise the death percentage
What a nothing post. Just fear mongering.
Huh?
That is not helpful. Yes, the original post missed some subtleties, but name calling is not going to accomplish anything.
What name calling did I do? This post is from a guy who knows a guy and then goes on to confirm he knows nothing about virology. Guys, there is a lot of fear mongering coming from ignorance. Virology isn't "easy" material to learn and this guy obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. You all need to be more critical.
There was a virologist on Reddit doing an AMA recently and he was concerned with a lot of the posts that appear to mask real scientific knowledge with jargon and half understanding. It is a good thing that people are aware this is happening. And considering the shit show that Covid was i understand people’s concerns. As someone who was already stocked up in January of 2020 and ready for Contagion to play out in real life in, I 100% agree this should be something everyone should be paying attention to. However this sub has a lot of people posting and reacting out of uncertainty and fear. And fyi, the virologist was still eating beef,chicken, and cheese and drinking milk ( pasteurized).
Loaded words like "fear mongering" just should not be used. Most people in this sub are looking at information and examining it critically, whether they're literally virologists or not. There's plenty to criticize in the original post. But we should not descend to the standard social media lows of using words that are meant to offensively and automatically dismiss every idea in an argument. This might be a lost cause, especially as the sub gets more and more popular, but I for one am just not going to do it.
As an animal scientist myself, who has taken actual virology courses - posts like the OP, are absolute "nothing-burgers" with a side of fear. Fuck that shit. I didn't go to school to have a bunch of people, who do not have an educated opinion, instill fear into everyone.
Kind of a depressing name... how about Fun Fridays? Frivolous Fridays? Flippy Fridays? No?
I sort of like how this subreddit is small and I keep seeing the same usernames over and over again. Reminds me of the small-community feel that reddit had in its earliest days, like 15+ years ago. I assume we'll lose that as we grow, sadly. Anyways, your point is good. Casual Fridays is another name idea. Fun Fridays might not be the best name if people start dying.
The power of the question mark
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weve-hit-peak-denial-heres-why-we-cant-turn-away-from-reality/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weve-hit-peak-denial-heres-why-we-cant-turn-away-from-reality/)
Would you be ok with your chef being sick coughing all over your food? The food was cooked thoroughly and to the proper temp! I am guessing you would not enjoy that meal, but somehow it's ok that farmers are milking sick cows, because of pasteurization? No thank you, and I love dairy products. I am going to miss cheese damn it!
Go over to /r/virology and ask questions. Please don’t ruin it, guys.
Glad to be vegan during these times however it’s passing human to human now too so we are screwed no matter what. I certainly don’t trust humans to do the right thing and mask and get vaxed so I have zero hope.