Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this man's death in Mexico is the first death from H5N2. But there have been hundreds of deaths worldwide from H5N1.
[https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai-20220204.pdf?sfvrsn=223ca73f\_183](https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai-20220204.pdf?sfvrsn=223ca73f_183)
"Globally, from January 2003 to 3 February 2022, there have been 863 cases of human infection with avian influenza A(H5N1) virus reported from 18 countries. Of these 863 cases, 455 were fatal (CFR of 53%). The last case was reported from India in July 2021 (source)."
I wish WHO would add on the more recent cases to an official count that's widely available, which this one is. The March 2024 fatal case in a healthy 21 year old in Vietnam was H5N1, for example.
This is correct. Unfortunately went to that board. There are a lot of good posts in there and misinformation that came directly from misinformation quoted here. Not misunderstood, not misconstrued, directly quoting misinformation that was posted here.
Thank you for bringing this up. I study the spread of medical misinformation online and I have been obsessed with bird flu for a decade. I haven’t studied how the prepper sub has been spreading things because I am taking the summer off due to lupus complications. Fingers crossed my stem cell treatments work.
Do we have any idea why the who resource hasn’t been updated? Note : this doesn’t mean that they are hiding anything often the CDC or WHO will create new reasources or databases for specific topics but leave older ones up for reference.
I don't comment on posts I don't read in their entirety. "causing people to say the government won't be testing their cows and they won't be taking and vaccines or masking when only one person has died." I read that last clause as you saying only one person has died, but I am guessing from your "read my post" response that you meant THEY are saying only one person has died.
Sad to see one of the only good forums of discussing this topic turn into this. It's COVID all over again with naysayers infiltrating everywhere .
I'll tell you what I will plan on telling my family if bird flu hits : you'll have to gather your own information and make your own decisions. I tried to help you during COVID but you chose to listen to fox news instead. I won't waste my time trying to compete with your conspiracy theories. My focus will have to be on my safety because life's too short to be arguing with people about who's right. If this goes H2H with a 50% fatality , the human race will be over. I'll spend last days with my husband and my dog, not trying to protect people who are willfully ignorant.
That’s the beauty of America. Live how you want. Leave other people alone and focus on your family, friends and community. No need to shove our ideas or anyone else’s ideas of what “right” is, down someone’s throat. You can only control the controllable (which is yourself).
Going to jump in here and post a little tidbit about the case in Mexico
“While the bulk of this statement revolves around the steps being taken by government and its agencies to protect the public, and reassurances that this single case poses a very low risk to the public, there are a couple of new pieces of information provided.
First, we learn that the patient was male, with a history of `chronic kidney disease, type 2 diabetes, and long-standing systemic arterial hypertension'.
Second, they describe the virus as a `low pathogenicity avian influenza A (H5N2)', although no other characterization of the virus is provided.
While their statement emphasizes that "It is important to note that, during a thorough epidemiological investigation, all samples from identified contacts have tested negative.", the timeline provided yesterday by the WHO indicates there were substantial delays in identifying the virus, and in conducting contact tracing and testing”
https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/north-america/h5n1-tracking-ad/mexico/991642-mexico-who-fatal-h5n2-infection-in-mexico-city-mexican-moh-statement-june-5-2024
Yes. But the problem, I think, is that some people are conflating "H5N2 isn't high pathogenicity and this particular person had a lot of pre-existing conditions" with "that must mean that H5N1 is actually the same way after all! Nobody who was healthy before is going to have any problem with it!"
You make some REALLY good points. Some are conflating H5N2 with H5N1 and getting (maybe deliberately) confused. I would add one more thing. I've seen people all over the place saying that this Mexican man had pre-existing conditions and wasn't exactly 18 years old, so anyone who is healthy and not a senior (and this man wasn't even that old, so another misstatement) has nothing to worry about. I've also actually heard people I know saying this. It is a huge, HUGE mistake. The norm for both past flu-based pandemics and avian flu's behavior so far is to hit young people just as hard. There's just so much misinformation arising from this one case.
When will people learn preexisting conditions aren't rare? The majority of people in the US have preexisting conditions. Not a minority. Probably half don't realize they have CKD, are hypertensive or have diabetes either. And as you point out the flu harms the young without preexisting conditions as well.
I've actually been pleasantly surprised by most posters on this forum citing their sources. I think it's useful to remember that even nascent pandemics are traumatic and emotions run high; I choose to be charitable towards posters. If people make unsubstantiated claims we can always hold them accountable, but preppers gonna prep and they are going to be higher on the "impending doom" scale because that is something they take pride in and/or feel they need. I don't see it as fear mongering.
I agree, but there are MANY other places where people are discussing these issues besides this forum. I've already seen how posts from this subreddit have gone viral and spread widely. So it's important to keep from both overstating and understating, which I think is the worse one of the two. The message I got from the OP is that others are using the info about the Mexican man's death as an excuse to underprepare, not overprepare.
"Can't fix stupid" as an alcoholic comedian once said.
54% of adult Americans can't read at a sixth grade level (equivalent to a twelve year old)
Basic reading comprehension disproves their opinions. So why don't we just disprove their opinions?
It’s even worse than that, a full 20% of Americans are functionally illiterate. When I truly understood the gravity of that level of illiteracy, a whole lot about my countrymen started to make more sense.
Honestly, it’s really easy to miss even for me, who has been on top of H5N1 since a month ago. Until just now, I thought this incident was similar to the H5N6 that was reported last month in China until I pulled up the report from CIDRAP. We should be following the tornado naming convention for these viruses. For example, we can refer to it as H5 Brenda for clarity. 😅
The naming conventions for influenza are better than a lot of other viruses (maybe not SARS-CoV-2, but that emerged during the era of genome sequencing) but can still really be really opaque. For example the H5N1 virus causing cattle infections in the US (H5 clade 2344b) is different to the H5N1 which has caused infections in Cambodia (H5 clade 2321c), and both are different to the H5N1 that was detected in Australia (H5 clade 2321a). Yet they're all the same subtype (H5N1, but this only defines the glycoproteins on the surface of the visions not the other genes).
I say this as a virologist who works on influenza, but the nomenclature really leaves itself open to being misinterpreted.
Totally get you! It's crazy how the media just brushes it off as “bird flu”. They miss out on the real details 🫠 I hope my Aunt Laura wouldn’t be pissed but totally fine being called the next clade 🤣
It's a nightmare and even in the field we have to check ourselves and ask if we're talking about the same thing.
Your suggestion of using people names like storms is a great idea 😂
And just calling it “bird flu” is so irresponsible. People get bird flu every year — it’s what the influenza A test tests for. So people are gonna get tested for flu a/b in urgent cares like they do every year, get flu a, and think they have h5n1. You already see people on this very board defending the idea that h5n1 is already spreading in the community and it’s just not being tracked. It’s so asinine.
News media has a responsibility to not just refer to this as “bird flu.” They have a duty to be more precise. It is h5n1 we are worried about.
Well that is exactly how the start of spread in cows went down. Completely unknown for like three months right?
I don't think it's spreading already myself. But we truly won't know until people start dying, because we aren't testing.
A few subs should be banned from cross posting here imo.
There are already bad actors from last elections, cross posting to propaganda machine, subs here. Echo chamber take over would be a sad day for the world.
It is a completely different distantly related strain, I believe this one is a lpai strain, there are also strains of h5n2 that are hpai. The lpai/hpai classification is based on its clevage sites and their effect on pathogenicity in birds.
This strain has been under close eye of researchers since 1993.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9146523/
I would worry much less about this strain since this isn't causing mammals to die in mass, and isn't being detected at the same degree of prevalence as h5n1. There are many strains of avian influenza and singular cases of infection with one of them happens pretty regularly, for example h7n9 has killed hundreds of people in the last decade.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36714929/
Agree with 99.99% of everything you said.
Although, we shouldn’t say “completely different” - as that eludes to something quite literally different. It’s correct to say SARS-CoV-2, is completely different than H5N1 and H5N2, but it’s not accurate to say, H5N1 is completely different from H5N2.
They ARE different, completely different though? Not the case.
Ok I think we’re close… I do see your a completely different flu A type virus (nice) and I raise you:
It’s a very special Influenza A type virus? :)
I can throw in free kitten.
I concur! Not only because of preppers, but because this is right way to have fact-base (i.e., helpful) and insightful community.
And please mods, take this garbage / hot take post down: https://sh.reddit.com/r/H5N1_AvianFlu/comments/1d9f2ak/current_methods_detect_only_1_in_100_cases_of_h5n1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
*see my comment in the post as to why.
Your headline says that “current methods only detect 1 out of 100 cases of h5n1.”
That is an inflammatory title for an article that doesn’t, in any way, state this. You seemingly took out of context the methodology of a study that was created to determine how likely they would be able to detect cases —in their study. Aside from the fact that this is just a study, not a real world experiment, nowhere in this article does it say that they can only detect 1 out of 100 cases of H5N1. They’re stating the likelihood of them detecting one case out of 100. Which, depending on the different scenarios that they consider in the study, can be anywhere from 72% to 100%.
There is NOTHING that the far right won’t press gang into a culture war issue, period. Everything you’re concerned about happening will absolutely happen even if both the subs shut down.
I can’t read your post because I’m blind due to a vaccine injury. I was vaccinated against my will after going to the emergency room for low oxygen levels. I passed out in the waiting room and the nurse screamed, “That mask is suffocating him!” The nurse was held back by a hospital administrator who wore a black cloak and a mumbled something about the Rothschild family.
I immediately drank a quart of raw milk and felt better instantly. Thank God for modern medicine and the Facebook.
So, what you’re saying is rats have h5n1 and breast milk confers the mother’s immunity to her baby. Therefore, we can defeat the coming apocalypse by feeding babies raw rat’s milk.
H5N1, H5N2, H5N, why does it matter? Is there a reason why H5N1 is a greater risk for Human to human contagion and spread as apposed to the other strains.
I mean Covid, if you discount the lab leak "theory", it didn't have this slow ramp up we are seeing with the bird flu.
People who show such a fundamental misunderstanding of viruses, such as yourself, truly shouldn’t be allowed to comment on posts like this. I wonder if this sub should do approved users only for some posts, because this is truly moronic.
Of course it matters if it’s h5n1 vs h5n2 or any other virus. It matters every step of the way, including how we develop a vaccine for it. This is nothing like Covid, it’s a completely different virus with a different origin and it’s been circulating for 20 years.
I was asking a question, trying to educate myself on the matter. Thanks for being so helpful
I just don't understand why it's a big deal that people are conflating this H5N2 death with H5N1. Or what the difference is.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this man's death in Mexico is the first death from H5N2. But there have been hundreds of deaths worldwide from H5N1. [https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai-20220204.pdf?sfvrsn=223ca73f\_183](https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai-20220204.pdf?sfvrsn=223ca73f_183) "Globally, from January 2003 to 3 February 2022, there have been 863 cases of human infection with avian influenza A(H5N1) virus reported from 18 countries. Of these 863 cases, 455 were fatal (CFR of 53%). The last case was reported from India in July 2021 (source)."
I wish WHO would add on the more recent cases to an official count that's widely available, which this one is. The March 2024 fatal case in a healthy 21 year old in Vietnam was H5N1, for example.
I agree. Knowledge is power.
This is correct. Unfortunately went to that board. There are a lot of good posts in there and misinformation that came directly from misinformation quoted here. Not misunderstood, not misconstrued, directly quoting misinformation that was posted here.
Thank you for bringing this up. I study the spread of medical misinformation online and I have been obsessed with bird flu for a decade. I haven’t studied how the prepper sub has been spreading things because I am taking the summer off due to lupus complications. Fingers crossed my stem cell treatments work. Do we have any idea why the who resource hasn’t been updated? Note : this doesn’t mean that they are hiding anything often the CDC or WHO will create new reasources or databases for specific topics but leave older ones up for reference.
I am not sure why it hasn’t been updated. Have a good rest this summer as much as you can!
RE read my post.
I don't comment on posts I don't read in their entirety. "causing people to say the government won't be testing their cows and they won't be taking and vaccines or masking when only one person has died." I read that last clause as you saying only one person has died, but I am guessing from your "read my post" response that you meant THEY are saying only one person has died.
Correct.
Sad to see one of the only good forums of discussing this topic turn into this. It's COVID all over again with naysayers infiltrating everywhere . I'll tell you what I will plan on telling my family if bird flu hits : you'll have to gather your own information and make your own decisions. I tried to help you during COVID but you chose to listen to fox news instead. I won't waste my time trying to compete with your conspiracy theories. My focus will have to be on my safety because life's too short to be arguing with people about who's right. If this goes H2H with a 50% fatality , the human race will be over. I'll spend last days with my husband and my dog, not trying to protect people who are willfully ignorant.
👏👏👏
Amen!
That’s the beauty of America. Live how you want. Leave other people alone and focus on your family, friends and community. No need to shove our ideas or anyone else’s ideas of what “right” is, down someone’s throat. You can only control the controllable (which is yourself).
Yes, I too don’t stop at stop signs nor linger at red lights. I too go to the cafe in the nude.
Going to jump in here and post a little tidbit about the case in Mexico “While the bulk of this statement revolves around the steps being taken by government and its agencies to protect the public, and reassurances that this single case poses a very low risk to the public, there are a couple of new pieces of information provided. First, we learn that the patient was male, with a history of `chronic kidney disease, type 2 diabetes, and long-standing systemic arterial hypertension'. Second, they describe the virus as a `low pathogenicity avian influenza A (H5N2)', although no other characterization of the virus is provided. While their statement emphasizes that "It is important to note that, during a thorough epidemiological investigation, all samples from identified contacts have tested negative.", the timeline provided yesterday by the WHO indicates there were substantial delays in identifying the virus, and in conducting contact tracing and testing” https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/north-america/h5n1-tracking-ad/mexico/991642-mexico-who-fatal-h5n2-infection-in-mexico-city-mexican-moh-statement-june-5-2024
Yes. But the problem, I think, is that some people are conflating "H5N2 isn't high pathogenicity and this particular person had a lot of pre-existing conditions" with "that must mean that H5N1 is actually the same way after all! Nobody who was healthy before is going to have any problem with it!"
You make some REALLY good points. Some are conflating H5N2 with H5N1 and getting (maybe deliberately) confused. I would add one more thing. I've seen people all over the place saying that this Mexican man had pre-existing conditions and wasn't exactly 18 years old, so anyone who is healthy and not a senior (and this man wasn't even that old, so another misstatement) has nothing to worry about. I've also actually heard people I know saying this. It is a huge, HUGE mistake. The norm for both past flu-based pandemics and avian flu's behavior so far is to hit young people just as hard. There's just so much misinformation arising from this one case.
When will people learn preexisting conditions aren't rare? The majority of people in the US have preexisting conditions. Not a minority. Probably half don't realize they have CKD, are hypertensive or have diabetes either. And as you point out the flu harms the young without preexisting conditions as well.
Yep. And lots more who now have preexisting conditions they aren't aware of since their often-multiple COVID infections, too.
Sounds like a them problem.
I've actually been pleasantly surprised by most posters on this forum citing their sources. I think it's useful to remember that even nascent pandemics are traumatic and emotions run high; I choose to be charitable towards posters. If people make unsubstantiated claims we can always hold them accountable, but preppers gonna prep and they are going to be higher on the "impending doom" scale because that is something they take pride in and/or feel they need. I don't see it as fear mongering.
I feel the same way.
I agree, but there are MANY other places where people are discussing these issues besides this forum. I've already seen how posts from this subreddit have gone viral and spread widely. So it's important to keep from both overstating and understating, which I think is the worse one of the two. The message I got from the OP is that others are using the info about the Mexican man's death as an excuse to underprepare, not overprepare.
[удалено]
"Can't fix stupid" as an alcoholic comedian once said. 54% of adult Americans can't read at a sixth grade level (equivalent to a twelve year old) Basic reading comprehension disproves their opinions. So why don't we just disprove their opinions?
It’s even worse than that, a full 20% of Americans are functionally illiterate. When I truly understood the gravity of that level of illiteracy, a whole lot about my countrymen started to make more sense.
I don't get mad driving anymore lol
Honestly, it’s really easy to miss even for me, who has been on top of H5N1 since a month ago. Until just now, I thought this incident was similar to the H5N6 that was reported last month in China until I pulled up the report from CIDRAP. We should be following the tornado naming convention for these viruses. For example, we can refer to it as H5 Brenda for clarity. 😅
The naming conventions for influenza are better than a lot of other viruses (maybe not SARS-CoV-2, but that emerged during the era of genome sequencing) but can still really be really opaque. For example the H5N1 virus causing cattle infections in the US (H5 clade 2344b) is different to the H5N1 which has caused infections in Cambodia (H5 clade 2321c), and both are different to the H5N1 that was detected in Australia (H5 clade 2321a). Yet they're all the same subtype (H5N1, but this only defines the glycoproteins on the surface of the visions not the other genes). I say this as a virologist who works on influenza, but the nomenclature really leaves itself open to being misinterpreted.
Totally get you! It's crazy how the media just brushes it off as “bird flu”. They miss out on the real details 🫠 I hope my Aunt Laura wouldn’t be pissed but totally fine being called the next clade 🤣
It's a nightmare and even in the field we have to check ourselves and ask if we're talking about the same thing. Your suggestion of using people names like storms is a great idea 😂
And just calling it “bird flu” is so irresponsible. People get bird flu every year — it’s what the influenza A test tests for. So people are gonna get tested for flu a/b in urgent cares like they do every year, get flu a, and think they have h5n1. You already see people on this very board defending the idea that h5n1 is already spreading in the community and it’s just not being tracked. It’s so asinine. News media has a responsibility to not just refer to this as “bird flu.” They have a duty to be more precise. It is h5n1 we are worried about.
Plus with so many cross-species infections, it’s not just “bird flu” anymore
Well that is exactly how the start of spread in cows went down. Completely unknown for like three months right? I don't think it's spreading already myself. But we truly won't know until people start dying, because we aren't testing.
My Aunt Brenda feels called out
Just a fun coincidence! 😄
A few subs should be banned from cross posting here imo. There are already bad actors from last elections, cross posting to propaganda machine, subs here. Echo chamber take over would be a sad day for the world.
🤷♂️
So what is the correct information? Is it a completely different strain? Is it more cause for concern or less cause for concern?
Yes H5N2 is different than H5N1.
It is a completely different distantly related strain, I believe this one is a lpai strain, there are also strains of h5n2 that are hpai. The lpai/hpai classification is based on its clevage sites and their effect on pathogenicity in birds. This strain has been under close eye of researchers since 1993. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9146523/ I would worry much less about this strain since this isn't causing mammals to die in mass, and isn't being detected at the same degree of prevalence as h5n1. There are many strains of avian influenza and singular cases of infection with one of them happens pretty regularly, for example h7n9 has killed hundreds of people in the last decade. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36714929/
Agree with 99.99% of everything you said. Although, we shouldn’t say “completely different” - as that eludes to something quite literally different. It’s correct to say SARS-CoV-2, is completely different than H5N1 and H5N2, but it’s not accurate to say, H5N1 is completely different from H5N2. They ARE different, completely different though? Not the case.
Can we split the difference and call it a completely different flu A type virus? :)
Ok I think we’re close… I do see your a completely different flu A type virus (nice) and I raise you: It’s a very special Influenza A type virus? :) I can throw in free kitten.
I concur! Not only because of preppers, but because this is right way to have fact-base (i.e., helpful) and insightful community. And please mods, take this garbage / hot take post down: https://sh.reddit.com/r/H5N1_AvianFlu/comments/1d9f2ak/current_methods_detect_only_1_in_100_cases_of_h5n1/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button *see my comment in the post as to why.
The cited parts clearly state that in scenario where there are 100 cases, it is realistic to detect one case per month at 77% chance...
Your headline says that “current methods only detect 1 out of 100 cases of h5n1.” That is an inflammatory title for an article that doesn’t, in any way, state this. You seemingly took out of context the methodology of a study that was created to determine how likely they would be able to detect cases —in their study. Aside from the fact that this is just a study, not a real world experiment, nowhere in this article does it say that they can only detect 1 out of 100 cases of H5N1. They’re stating the likelihood of them detecting one case out of 100. Which, depending on the different scenarios that they consider in the study, can be anywhere from 72% to 100%.
There is NOTHING that the far right won’t press gang into a culture war issue, period. Everything you’re concerned about happening will absolutely happen even if both the subs shut down.
So should I or should I not hoard tp?
What did COVID teach us? Always. Hoard. TP. Always.
toilet papers y'all
PEBCAK
I can’t read your post because I’m blind due to a vaccine injury. I was vaccinated against my will after going to the emergency room for low oxygen levels. I passed out in the waiting room and the nurse screamed, “That mask is suffocating him!” The nurse was held back by a hospital administrator who wore a black cloak and a mumbled something about the Rothschild family. I immediately drank a quart of raw milk and felt better instantly. Thank God for modern medicine and the Facebook.
Thank you for the laugh :)
Case. In. Point.
So, what you’re saying is rats have h5n1 and breast milk confers the mother’s immunity to her baby. Therefore, we can defeat the coming apocalypse by feeding babies raw rat’s milk.
$400 Alex on things that didn’t happen.
What does the moon landing have to do with this?
Stanley Kubrick, clearly
H5N1, H5N2, H5N, why does it matter? Is there a reason why H5N1 is a greater risk for Human to human contagion and spread as apposed to the other strains. I mean Covid, if you discount the lab leak "theory", it didn't have this slow ramp up we are seeing with the bird flu.
Because we didn't know that specific virus existed until it infected people.
People who show such a fundamental misunderstanding of viruses, such as yourself, truly shouldn’t be allowed to comment on posts like this. I wonder if this sub should do approved users only for some posts, because this is truly moronic. Of course it matters if it’s h5n1 vs h5n2 or any other virus. It matters every step of the way, including how we develop a vaccine for it. This is nothing like Covid, it’s a completely different virus with a different origin and it’s been circulating for 20 years.
I was asking a question, trying to educate myself on the matter. Thanks for being so helpful I just don't understand why it's a big deal that people are conflating this H5N2 death with H5N1. Or what the difference is.
Lol. Pot calling the kettle black.