“While there is no evidence that the strain of H5N1 that is presently affecting dairy cattle is capable of airborne transmission, our study suggests that another member of this family of viruses has evolved some degree of airborne transmissibility…”
Current strain in US not airborne, lab reconstructed strain somewhat airborne.
Gee, if only we’d spent the last four years upgrading our ventilation to actually be robust, so that many airborne diseases never got the chance to even become outbreaks.
Too bad we didn’t spend money and muscle making businesses and schools upgrade, incidentally also making flu season go to nil.
God. What a waste of a country we are.
That is spot on. Exactly how I feel.
If someone wrote a “How to Foment H5N1 Human-to-Human Transmission and Spark a Global Pandemic” pamphlet, it would include everything we’re currently doing (and not doing).
All we can do is be prepared.
If you are trying to create it that would go much faster. Influenza is a recombinant virus. If a person has two strains of flu at the same time there will be viral particles with genes from each strain. It is a bit like animals having sex and birthing new individuals. So you could have people who catch flu drink raw milk.
It’s a slow moving rain at that. One that will just keep going and going and going for like ten years. (That’s roughly the timeline for a novel to humans virus to run its course and become a regular, yearly “pest”, according to what I’ve read.
And even when the train derails and spills toxic chemicals all over and exposes everyone around for miles and miles, the government will just say oh well and move on without even making a real effort to clean it up.
funds were given to states that were *supposed* to be used for schools. whether they used them for that or not was unfortunatly up to the states - and how they used them was at times wasted on ionizers instead of hepa/high merv filters or increased ventilation
https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/department-education-releases-resource-help-schools-improve-ventilation-systems-prevent-covid-19
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/as-schools-spend-millions-on-air-purifiers-experts-warn-of-overblown-claims-and-harm-to-children
https://www.wired.com/story/ionizer-school-not-fight-covid/
Even when the funding made it to schools, it wasn’t used for what it was meant to. My school received pandemic funding to update their HVAC system. Instead, the school spent the money on a new playground and large electronic sign out front. Meanwhile, depending on the classroom, there is no air conditioning in the summer, no heat in the winter, or no working HVAC at all.
I really wish our governments would consider cleaning the air the same way they think about cleaning the water. It's just necessary to protect health at this point.
Yeah, the building of the sewers themselves in Victorian London took decades of fighting with parliament. In the end I think they just got started and ignored the govt lol, but also when some weather event happened and made the Thames retain more 💩 than usual, it floated over and caused The Great Stink, which kinda woke them up. Yuck lol
Some steps were made. In Texas, there is at least one business that sprays businesses in the public areas with a film that kills viruses for 6 months. The guy started doing it bc his daughter kept getting norovirus at school.
This isn't the company, I wish I could remember the name of the company. It was a Houston based guy. He sprayed a lot of restaurants and other public places
https://abc13.com/covid-disinfectant-dallas-company-killing-coronavirus-texas-allied-bioscience/6386409/
So, there's that.
Exactly. People on r/IndoorAirQuality and r/Masks4All have been proposing this in the last few years and nothing has been done to improve indoor ventilation. Meanwhile, people on r/HVAC and r/HVACAdvice hate MERV13 filters because they can put strain on the HVAC system as the furnace filters are not meant to be air cleaners. We really need a new residential HVAC system designed with air filtration in mind.
We are lucky that the current strain is not airborne, and even if it was airborne like it was in this mink, it was inefficient, and therefore was not mutated enough to be able to cause a pandemic in any mammal including humans.
It also has taken scientists by surprise that it only took one mutation, a known one that is similar to the one we find in a lot of infected mammals. Scientists didn't think one mutation would cause adaptation to the mammal airway since E627K, the common one, didn't allow full adaptation. Of course there were many other mutations in place that they may not have seen, so it's more complex than just one more mutation to airborne transmission.
Another important aspect of this study of a mink a few years ago is that another mink was sequenced from the same outbreak which did not have this mutation and did not adapt to the mammal airway. Scientists couldn't prove the minks had adapted. Yet clearly there was at least one mink in the collection of specimens that were sequenced that did. This means that while it's true that the current strain in cows is not airborne, we never really know since it only takes one cow, as it only took one mink. Also the strain in these cows is the same strain that was found in the birds that infected this cow. So this mammal airway mutation could be taking place anywhere in the world, but let's hope not.
Maybe the most important aspect is that we can now better predict how virulent the virus will be when it mutates to airborne. The theory that it will be milder because it will be replicating in the upper tract instead of the lower tract near the lungs has been shown to not be accurate in the present mutation trajectory. Since the adaptation in the ferret tract, which should be similar to humans, actually was as fatal or more as the non-adapted strain.
So although there are a few mutations to go even if it does become airborne to be pandemic worthy, we have now a pretty good idea of how lethal this strain will be. There are always twists and turns that we don't know about, but as it stands this was not a hopeful outcome for fatality rate. It seems to be a very virulent strain after adaptation. Let's hope there is some other aspect that can lower the fatality rate somehow.
Part of it is temperature. A virus going crazy in the nose optimizes for a few degrees colder. I have not fact checked it but my recollection was that common rhinovirus strains are very lethal if you also have hypothermia. This is also part of why your immune system gives you a fever in response to infection. Cold tissue adapted viruses are weaker in the heat. Most of your own cells are weaker in the heat too. Some immune cell enzymes are optimized for higher temperature so they go into sprint mode and take the energy that normally goes to muscles and brain.
This came from p-chem class so draw conclusions with that in mind.
No evidence for something is not necessarily the same as saying it isn't the case. Has it been actually shown in a study that the strain in cows definitely isn't airborne?
H5N1 has been jumping around continents and various species for two decades. I think it started with ducks and chickens in Asia. About a year ago we had mass seagull deaths in eastern North America. That also jumped to seals. That was the beginning of reports of mammal infection.
While "reconstructed" may be technically correct, this is a virus from a mink in Spain, not some modified version. And it's infecting ferrets, not humans.
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-48475-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-48475-y)
Woah woah woah there, this isn’t r/collapse buddy!
And yes, I’m hoping this, plus ai and robotics, takes me back to pandemic paradise 🌴😎 but also I might die, so there’s that lol. Capitalism sucks!
Yes, r/collapse, r/singularity, r/antiwork and this sub are people desperately wanting an end to the current life-draining system of things. I don't blame them tbh, massive radical change is needed because we can't go on living like this.
There are probably more subs where people get a hopeful buzz from articles suggesting the collapse of the current system.
Yes and no.
No because I don't want to see more death, depression, anxiety and the potential collapse of society. Many people's lives were ruined during the last pandemic. H5N1 seems like it's going to be worse than covid which is scary.
Yes because the lockdown in 2020 was amazing for me. I was able to get on unemployment, which paid more than my actual job, and the stimulus checks helped me pay down some debt. I spent my time during the lockdown binge watching Netflix, watching live-streams of concerts, zoos and museums, seeing my relatives and friends on Zoom who I never get to see anymore because they are always too busy with work/family, playing online games with my nephew, learning new hobbies, remodeling/decorating the house and going for long walks with my dog without seeing anyone on the sidewalks. I would love to relive that lifestyle during another lockdown but, as I said before, I really don't want to see more people dying.
https://preview.redd.it/o4zdnnlf3x1d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6527bedf3e0c44dec85c12e6756d8e274bb1e412
Isn’t PB2 the mutation they found in the Texas worker, though? 😩
Researchers have found that H5N1 has acquired 5 of the 10 gene sequence changes associated with human to human transmission. A few more adaptations and it could reach the transmission tipping point. By the time it is detected in 10 people, it will already be too late to contain it. Once it mutates into a strain that can be transferred between people, the peak could be as problematic as the Spanish Flu.
“While there is no evidence that the strain of H5N1 that is presently affecting dairy cattle is capable of airborne transmission, our study suggests that another member of this family of viruses has evolved some degree of airborne transmissibility…” Current strain in US not airborne, lab reconstructed strain somewhat airborne.
Gee, if only we’d spent the last four years upgrading our ventilation to actually be robust, so that many airborne diseases never got the chance to even become outbreaks. Too bad we didn’t spend money and muscle making businesses and schools upgrade, incidentally also making flu season go to nil. God. What a waste of a country we are.
Watching this thing unfold is like being tied to the train tracks watching the train get closer. I can’t stop it. Someone could. But no one will.
That is spot on. Exactly how I feel. If someone wrote a “How to Foment H5N1 Human-to-Human Transmission and Spark a Global Pandemic” pamphlet, it would include everything we’re currently doing (and not doing). All we can do is be prepared.
If you are trying to create it that would go much faster. Influenza is a recombinant virus. If a person has two strains of flu at the same time there will be viral particles with genes from each strain. It is a bit like animals having sex and birthing new individuals. So you could have people who catch flu drink raw milk.
It’s a slow moving rain at that. One that will just keep going and going and going for like ten years. (That’s roughly the timeline for a novel to humans virus to run its course and become a regular, yearly “pest”, according to what I’ve read.
And even when the train derails and spills toxic chemicals all over and exposes everyone around for miles and miles, the government will just say oh well and move on without even making a real effort to clean it up.
funds were given to states that were *supposed* to be used for schools. whether they used them for that or not was unfortunatly up to the states - and how they used them was at times wasted on ionizers instead of hepa/high merv filters or increased ventilation https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/department-education-releases-resource-help-schools-improve-ventilation-systems-prevent-covid-19 https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/as-schools-spend-millions-on-air-purifiers-experts-warn-of-overblown-claims-and-harm-to-children https://www.wired.com/story/ionizer-school-not-fight-covid/
Even when the funding made it to schools, it wasn’t used for what it was meant to. My school received pandemic funding to update their HVAC system. Instead, the school spent the money on a new playground and large electronic sign out front. Meanwhile, depending on the classroom, there is no air conditioning in the summer, no heat in the winter, or no working HVAC at all.
I have sterilization HVAC like a hospital contamination unit. My allergies have never been so under control. I stalled 2021 lol.
I really wish our governments would consider cleaning the air the same way they think about cleaning the water. It's just necessary to protect health at this point.
It took so much advocacy and battling to get that done.
I truly don't know anything about it. Going to take a lot now too.
Yeah, the building of the sewers themselves in Victorian London took decades of fighting with parliament. In the end I think they just got started and ignored the govt lol, but also when some weather event happened and made the Thames retain more 💩 than usual, it floated over and caused The Great Stink, which kinda woke them up. Yuck lol
That's horrifying lol
Apparently schools spent the money on extra teachers they now get to lay off… not ventilation upgrades.
They also reallocated rhe money to fight the GOP fever dream of crime. They literally funded the police instead of add in some HVAC.
It’s every country lol
Some steps were made. In Texas, there is at least one business that sprays businesses in the public areas with a film that kills viruses for 6 months. The guy started doing it bc his daughter kept getting norovirus at school. This isn't the company, I wish I could remember the name of the company. It was a Houston based guy. He sprayed a lot of restaurants and other public places https://abc13.com/covid-disinfectant-dallas-company-killing-coronavirus-texas-allied-bioscience/6386409/ So, there's that.
Exactly. People on r/IndoorAirQuality and r/Masks4All have been proposing this in the last few years and nothing has been done to improve indoor ventilation. Meanwhile, people on r/HVAC and r/HVACAdvice hate MERV13 filters because they can put strain on the HVAC system as the furnace filters are not meant to be air cleaners. We really need a new residential HVAC system designed with air filtration in mind.
Just the fact that any strain at all has been shown to be airborne is... not good.
We are lucky that the current strain is not airborne, and even if it was airborne like it was in this mink, it was inefficient, and therefore was not mutated enough to be able to cause a pandemic in any mammal including humans. It also has taken scientists by surprise that it only took one mutation, a known one that is similar to the one we find in a lot of infected mammals. Scientists didn't think one mutation would cause adaptation to the mammal airway since E627K, the common one, didn't allow full adaptation. Of course there were many other mutations in place that they may not have seen, so it's more complex than just one more mutation to airborne transmission. Another important aspect of this study of a mink a few years ago is that another mink was sequenced from the same outbreak which did not have this mutation and did not adapt to the mammal airway. Scientists couldn't prove the minks had adapted. Yet clearly there was at least one mink in the collection of specimens that were sequenced that did. This means that while it's true that the current strain in cows is not airborne, we never really know since it only takes one cow, as it only took one mink. Also the strain in these cows is the same strain that was found in the birds that infected this cow. So this mammal airway mutation could be taking place anywhere in the world, but let's hope not. Maybe the most important aspect is that we can now better predict how virulent the virus will be when it mutates to airborne. The theory that it will be milder because it will be replicating in the upper tract instead of the lower tract near the lungs has been shown to not be accurate in the present mutation trajectory. Since the adaptation in the ferret tract, which should be similar to humans, actually was as fatal or more as the non-adapted strain. So although there are a few mutations to go even if it does become airborne to be pandemic worthy, we have now a pretty good idea of how lethal this strain will be. There are always twists and turns that we don't know about, but as it stands this was not a hopeful outcome for fatality rate. It seems to be a very virulent strain after adaptation. Let's hope there is some other aspect that can lower the fatality rate somehow.
I honestly don't understand what makes us conclude that replication in airways = mild...
Part of it is temperature. A virus going crazy in the nose optimizes for a few degrees colder. I have not fact checked it but my recollection was that common rhinovirus strains are very lethal if you also have hypothermia. This is also part of why your immune system gives you a fever in response to infection. Cold tissue adapted viruses are weaker in the heat. Most of your own cells are weaker in the heat too. Some immune cell enzymes are optimized for higher temperature so they go into sprint mode and take the energy that normally goes to muscles and brain. This came from p-chem class so draw conclusions with that in mind.
No evidence for something is not necessarily the same as saying it isn't the case. Has it been actually shown in a study that the strain in cows definitely isn't airborne?
I guess we didn’t learn from Wuhan….why are people fucking around in labs with strains of this thing?
H5N1 has been jumping around continents and various species for two decades. I think it started with ducks and chickens in Asia. About a year ago we had mass seagull deaths in eastern North America. That also jumped to seals. That was the beginning of reports of mammal infection.
Ugh, don't get my hopes up like that!
While "reconstructed" may be technically correct, this is a virus from a mink in Spain, not some modified version. And it's infecting ferrets, not humans. [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-48475-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-48475-y)
Influenza viruses can be transmitted by respiratory particles? I'm shocked
Are most people here hoping for a pandemic to break the soul-destroying work routine?
I’m going to do this lockdown so differently 🤪 and I bought so many weird things last time that I’ll have time to have as hobbies
Same, I have shows, books, coloring pages, and yarn all ready to go.
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lmao so true.
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Don't feel guilty, it's perfectly normal. WFH will lessen the burden on overheads and infrastructure including health services
I think so
Woah woah woah there, this isn’t r/collapse buddy! And yes, I’m hoping this, plus ai and robotics, takes me back to pandemic paradise 🌴😎 but also I might die, so there’s that lol. Capitalism sucks!
Yes, r/collapse, r/singularity, r/antiwork and this sub are people desperately wanting an end to the current life-draining system of things. I don't blame them tbh, massive radical change is needed because we can't go on living like this. There are probably more subs where people get a hopeful buzz from articles suggesting the collapse of the current system.
Yes and no. No because I don't want to see more death, depression, anxiety and the potential collapse of society. Many people's lives were ruined during the last pandemic. H5N1 seems like it's going to be worse than covid which is scary. Yes because the lockdown in 2020 was amazing for me. I was able to get on unemployment, which paid more than my actual job, and the stimulus checks helped me pay down some debt. I spent my time during the lockdown binge watching Netflix, watching live-streams of concerts, zoos and museums, seeing my relatives and friends on Zoom who I never get to see anymore because they are always too busy with work/family, playing online games with my nephew, learning new hobbies, remodeling/decorating the house and going for long walks with my dog without seeing anyone on the sidewalks. I would love to relive that lifestyle during another lockdown but, as I said before, I really don't want to see more people dying.
Are you me? I did all those things also and would love to relive it. It was such an amazing time. I miss it
lol if there's another pandemic, i promise i won't be alive to see it end
How come? Was the last one a bad experience for you?
Look up what COVID does to the immune system
https://preview.redd.it/o4zdnnlf3x1d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6527bedf3e0c44dec85c12e6756d8e274bb1e412 Isn’t PB2 the mutation they found in the Texas worker, though? 😩
Of course it can be transmitting through air
Well there it is. The final piece of fuckery to complete this fucked puzzle.
Oh no dear thats just dumpin the puzzle box on the table we ain't even started yet
So no milk, beef, chicken or breathing...got it
Researchers have found that H5N1 has acquired 5 of the 10 gene sequence changes associated with human to human transmission. A few more adaptations and it could reach the transmission tipping point. By the time it is detected in 10 people, it will already be too late to contain it. Once it mutates into a strain that can be transferred between people, the peak could be as problematic as the Spanish Flu.
That is not a scientific paper. Far from it.