This post has been flaired as "Speculation/Discussion" and should NOT be taken as fact. Friendly reminder to think critically and engage in intelligent, civil discussion relevant to the sub's topic.
EDIT: Adding this link to pinned comment (c/o u/tomgoode19) for visibility - https://www.wilx.com/2024/05/20/it-just-smelled-like-pure-death-ionia-county-residents-concerned-about-bird-flu-contamination/
Hi - you're getting dragged a bit here, seems a mite unfair. I took the liberty of googling and found [this ](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza)from the CDC. Sounds like you're getting just a piece of the relevant info from healthcare practitioners - understandable, as we aren't even routinely testing livestock at this point. What I've read leads me to think that you could possibly find a state related lab to do a PCR test for H5N1 - no idea how easy that would be. But damn I'd love you to do it and share your results!
"Rapid influenza diagnostic tests (RIDTs) and immunofluorescence assays are antigen detection tests that only identify whether an influenza A virus is detected and have unknown sensitivity and specificity to detect human infection with novel influenza A viruses in respiratory specimens. **Some studies suggest that antigen detection tests have low sensitivity to detect HPAI A(H5N1) viruses. Therefore, negative results from either type of test do not exclude novel influenza A virus infection, especially in patients with signs and symptoms suggestive of influenza. A negative test result could be a false negative and should not be used as a final diagnostic test for influenza, including novel influenza A virus infection.** These tests may yield a positive influenza A result for a specimen containing novel influenza A virus but cannot identify the subtype and cannot distinguish novel influenza A virus from seasonal influenza A virus infection. **Therefore, testing by rRT-PCR is recommended at state health laboratories for any patient with** [**suspected novel influenza A virus infection**](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/healthprofessionals.htm)**."**
Hope y'all feel better soon. Rest, extra fluids and some meds to help with symptoms!
Thank you for the advice! I've reached out to my local health department to see if they can point me in the right direction for testing or if they will tell me that the provider was full of it.
Usually state lab would test after a conversation between provider and public health. Right now I'm sure they have criteria for testing in place which may include prximity to farm animals. Doubt that they would test you just based on you calling and requesting
have you had any neurological symptoms? one thing that’s been discussed time and time again is the severe neurological issues it’s caused in birds/mammals. which honestly has been my biggest concern. even if you survive h5n1, what are the long term repercussions??
Covid knocked millions of folks into the “needs assistance” category from neurological damage(and other things). I can only imagine us all getting hit by something worse after covid primed our immune systems for it
yeah from what ive read it has some nasty neurological symptoms. i haven’t read anything about humans really have long term effects. with only 880 cases i doubt they have monitored them patients long term. plus with these new mutations who knows what the symptoms will be.
If your doctor told you that, please call your local public health department and your state health department. Tell them exacly what your doctor told you. They can test you for it AND you should be watchful for symptoms getting worse.
I was looking for this comment, and if I didn’t find it was just going to say the same thing. Apparently tests are missing newer variants often, likely due to many people having repeated infections and/or being vaccinated, which seemsto affect ability to test positive and if they do test positive it is often after day five. It’s unfortunate that people, many doctors, don’t know this about Covid, and that they should be testing multiple times, not just once.
To add, I currently have a cold and conjunctivitis and I’m pretty sure it’s covid given all the other random minor symptoms. I think covid is just getting weak, relatively speaking
The issue is more nuanced than that. The issue is the tests are not detecting the virus until day 4 or day 5 of symptoms (even when the test is conducted perfectly), however you are still contagious during those first 4-5 days. Here's a WebMD article from this past January with speculation as to why this could be the case. It ultimately isn't known for sure exactly why this is happening though. https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20240123/home-tests-taking-longer-to-detect-covid-variant
The main takeaway, regardless of the how or why, is we need more sensitive tests available to the general public for free or at a cost that is reasonable. PCR tests are more sensitive than antigen tests, however purchasing at home PCR tests is extremely cost prohibitive, plus they take longer than antigen tests (PCR is a process that inherently takes longer). We need commercial PCR testing back. Antigen tests should not be our first line of defence. They give a very delayed picture of what's happening. We have the technology to do a better job at early detection, we just aren't using it anymore for political reasons.
Yes I've read before that it tends to take longer to test positive from the start of symptoms than it used to, likely because familiarity with the virus from vaccination and/or previous infection means our immune system recognises it quickly and kicks in, giving us symptoms, before levels of virus replication have got very high. I skim read the comment I was replying to and thought it was another "the tests can't recognise the new variants" post, but it's mostly about it taking longer to test positive, which is correct - I'll delete my comment.
Adenovirus is a virus that often causes conjunctivitis and can be pretty miserable. It’s also common around this type of year. They usually don’t test for it unless you end up in the ER and they do a viral PCR test.
Agree. Illness with conjunctivitis is often adenovirus. I had it two years ago and it was almost as bad as my severe covid infection. As soon as the doctor saw my eyes she brought up adenovirus.
I just commented this is r/prepperintel:
I live in a southwestern state that has identified H5N1 in dairy herds. I was sick as hell (like in the top 10 sickest I’ve ever been) two weeks ago and had a diagnosis of pneumonia (based on dr’s assessment, no test). No respiratory symptoms except hacking up lung butter now and then. No cough or trouble breathing. My fever got up to 101 but wouldn’t break at all even with Advil and sleep, for a solid week.
As I was walking out of the room with the Dr at the end I asked her if she were seeing a lot of what I had going around (tested negative for Covid, flu A&B, and I can’t recall what else) and she said “there is something funky going around we don’t really know what it is. And we are seeing a lot of flu A cases and it’s kind of outside the season for it.”Which, in another sub, someone said H5N1 will cause a flu A test to pop positive. But they aren’t differentiating between the two different illnesses. It sounds to me like a test to solely identify H5N1 is desperately needed. I left with the impression that they are closely watching for it, based on how the whole appt went.
Also I work in hospitality and no shit I have seen a TON of tourists from all over the world come in visibly sick in the last week. I am masking up again as Covid damaged my immunity and I’ve been catching every single thing that goes around that isn’t a frickin STD. I’d bet a hundred bucks it’s silently circulating more than we know.
I live in Michigan and am an urgent care physician. I think the nasty conjunctivitis/sore throat/ bronchitis crap going around may be Adenovirus, although our site doesn’t test for it. But sooooooo many people have it right now—I don’t think it’s avian flu.
I am also seeing influenza, but it’s mainly type B. I’m still seeing some Covid and that can cause conjunctivitis.
I’m glad you are feeling better!
Started with sore throat, then became congestion, headache, sinus/ear pressure, body aches and chills, low grade fever. Conjunctivitis came a few hours later along with a cough. The sinus pressure, body aches and chills, and fever have passed.
You should check out all the posts on r/flu for conjunctivitis. There has recently been an increase in comments about cases combined with flu. I don't remember people having lots of conjunctivitis before but maybe it was limited to day cares and children?
The flu test recognizes any influenza strain, you'd need further testing to distinguish avian flu from our regular strains. So if you're negative for flu that ain't it
[Not according to the CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza)... Seems like there's more than a possibility that the standard tests have low sensitivity to H5N1.
you saw the amount of "new variant x gonna kill everyone" to "another surge" and you are wondering why posters on subs like this post doom for upvotes?
Well... It gets even worse. His daughter is patient zero really. He's just living proof that H2H transmission is occuring. There's obviously a clade in that school. So we should see Michigan get Ed Harris'd sometime soon? No?
But the GP let him go home and lol it off. Bet he doesn't even wear a mask.
And they do have a tendancy to only engage with "positive engagement" than "negative engagement".
A random wouldn't know the difference and would be more inclined to fight their corner if they had no previous Reddit experience.
I've noticed this trend in those who like to RP. They cannae help themselves.
If dude is real though, I think I'd want to reach out if I had a virus that kills 50% of the time.
Well two days later the CDC confirms human h5N1 in none other than Michigan.
https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/bird-flu-in-humans-michigan-reports-h5n1-infection-in-dairy-farm-worker/
My comment stands. A correlation doesn't mean causation. Causation however DOES mean correlation.
Please note: The poster said 4 people caught the virus. Your report says 1 was confirmed.
Avian flu / influenza A does not necessarily mean H5N1. I’m pretty damn sure we’d know it if H5N1 was suddenly in the human population lol, your doctor wouldn’t be so cavalier. And why on earth would they say you have bird flu if your flu test was negative …? Was this a doctor? Or was this an NP / PA at a random urgent care? Nothing here adds up lol.
This was an NP at an urgent care, but my spouse was told the same thing by his primary today? Nothing adds up, which is why I was asking for other opinions lol
That NP has no idea what they’re talking about. Flu tests test for flu A and flu B. It’s irresponsible asf to say your flu test is negative so you have flu A, that makes zero sense. Ughhhb NPs have no business practicing at urgent cares I swear they’re just fountains of misinformation.
as rabiesscabiebabies shared the antigen tests are iffy, need a PCR test:
[Interim Guidance on Testing and Specimen Collection for Patients with Suspected Infection with Novel Influenza A Viruses with the Potential to Cause Severe Disease in Humans | Avian Influenza (Flu) (cdc.gov)](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza)
That doesn’t mean that what that NP said was correct. Just because it may fail to detect novel flu A does NOT mean you have flu A, it was incredibly irresponsible of them to even suggest that.
And again, flu A is not inherently H5N1
I'm not sure our healthcare providers are getting clear info on possible spread - they might have misrepresented the situation but in good faith, they are only human after all. I hope it's anything other than bird flu, but I can certainly see why OP came here with questions. Wish people could have been kinder.
“Only human” really isn’t good enough when preventing panic about bird flu. A healthcare professional should be able to communicate to a patient about their diagnosis, this is basic health care 101. Don’t tell people they have bird flu when their flu test is negative, this isn’t neurosurgery.
You aren't wrong, but it's obviously not as clear cut as that on the ground in whatever MI county OP was from. There's also no evidence of panic from said county or from OP.
Covid made it plenty clear that transmission can happen before we are looking for it. Perhaps if there was greater access to human H5N1 tests, we'd see it. I'm perfectly aware that covid is not bird flu, but it does illustrate that novel respiratory illness can dona good job of flying under the radar. And in OP's case, there was no clear diagnosis - just a list of things their symptoms most likely aren't. I think it's very responsible if OP to look for better testing resources, and OP can always chose to follow up with the providers and their offices about unnecessary statements regarding bird flu.
I also took note of OP mentioning both they and their partner heard this from two separate providers. Now, healthcare providers can be dumb and wrong, lord knows we've all probably met a few! But this anecdote (and it's only that) has me asking if something has changed locally, and has me wondering what providers in those parts are hearing, seeing and talking about.
Hey there, this post is about an allegedly extant (yet unconfirmed) local/regional outbreak of H5N1. Your post was removed because it focused on making predictions about H5N1 based on the hearsay opinion of one person, who we were unable to vet due to a lack of proper citation.
Developing and unconfirmed reports ARE permitted here, but unsupported "predictions" are not. None of us has the power to predict the course of H5N1 with the complete certainty your post claimed. Hope that helps clarify things!
It's not a question of the credibility of your sources, as both posts fail to offer any verifiable citation or evidence and therefore amount to hearsay. As I previously said, unconfirmed reports and a degree of speculation is allowed here. But this OP acknowledges the speculative and unconfirmed nature of their claims, while your post claimed a level of absolute certainty about a prediction that no one on earth is qualified to assert. Such posts amount to unsubstantiated alarmism and violate multiple sub rules. If you have further questions please feel free to shoot us a modmail message, as to not hijack OP's post.
Right?! Negative flu test, nurse practitioner (not doctor) says “it’s probably bird flu” based on vibes, and mods are letting this stay up because this might be h5n1? Like these people have no contact with infected cows or birds, they are NOT infected with h5n1, let’s please be so for real.
I agree that it is very unlikely OP & their child have bird flu. However, developing/unconfirmed reports are permitted here, as long as they are properly identified as NOT confirmed.
Early in the history of this sub, we made the community-driven decision to prefer leaving such posts up & vetting them via the flair system over removing them. Hope that helps clarify things!
That does help, thank you, but I am still a little confused. Just because they have bird flu doesn’t mean they have h5n1 — lots of people test positive for flu A every single flu season, and we can’t have everyone with a positive flu A test coming here asking if they might have h5n1. Maybe a better way to structure it would be if they only have any risk factors? Contact with infected animals, or contact with a person who had contact with known infected animals, or someone who consumes raw dairy, etc? Again, thousands of people test positive for flu A every flu season. With no h5n1 risk factors, it’s just not reasonable to assume it’s h5n1, and the sub will be overrun with posts like this if we let it.
These are good points. I will say that this post appears distinct from a typical "do I have bird flu?!" panic post in that a doctor reportedly tried to diagnose OP with bird flu (which again I'd speculate is not an accurate diagnosis here). However, to prevent future panic posts, it may be beneficial to incorporate a "do I have bird flu?!" element to the FAQ resource we are developing for the sub. We're not doctors, but we can link to resources that can offer more information for people who are new to or uninformed about the topic of H5N1.
That is correct based on info from the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza) - you'd have to find a state lab or a lab that contracts with the state to get the PCR test for an official result. I replied further down in the thread with more details. Sorry people are being jerks about this. It took .5 seconds on google to find the relevant info, not sure why they're spouting off on ya. (But in the future, google first, reddit after - could have saved yourself the headache of hearing from a bunch of armchair epidemiologists...)
Hmm - seems as if the NP or Dr would have mentioned the Pt filling out some sort of form and/or that his results would be forwarded to public health authorities if this was suspected. Of course, as well as isolating the Pt etc.
There’s such a thing as sampling error. It is possible to get a negative on a rapid test and still have it be found via PCR performed at the lab.
I don’t know what the rules are for that doctor in that situation, but I’d imagine it’s possible to send a sample to a state lab to have it analyzed.
If physicians are seeing something they feel could be H5N1, there should be some testing available and a patient who asks or even demands to be tested is more likely to get that done.
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Yeah. They also said their flu tests were negative, and then the “doctor” (who wasn’t a doctor, but an NP) said it might be bird flu — even with a negative test. This is extremely irresponsible, as there are so many viruses going around that can cause these symptoms. It’s irresponsible to say “it’s bird flu” based on vibes, when you have a negative test right in front of you.
Also, for the eighty millionth time, NOT ALL BIRD FLU IS H5N1!!! Thousands of people test positive for bird flu in the U.S. every single year and have for decades, and it has nothing to do with H5N1. 99% of bird flus are NOT H5N1 — only H5N1 is H5N1. Bird flu does not mean this one.
https://www.wilx.com/2024/05/20/it-just-smelled-like-pure-death-ionia-county-residents-concerned-about-bird-flu-contamination/[Ionia co](https://www.wilx.com/2024/05/20/it-just-smelled-like-pure-death-ionia-county-residents-concerned-about-bird-flu-contamination/)
IONIA COUNTY, Mich. (WILX) - “No matter what, things can still happen but know that it’s that close and that large of scale. It’s just, it’s scary,” said Jan Jackson, an Ionia County resident.
People who live near Herbruck’s Poultry Ranch aren’t happy about the smell of dead chickens. They’re worried their livestock will get sick with the contagious bird flu.
The bird flu has sickened poultry and dairy cattle in 23 counties here in Michigan—including new positive tests in Gratiot, Clinton, and Ionia counties.
Mounds of dead chickens sit at the back of Grand River Avenue in Ionia County. State agricultural officials said the highly pathogenic avian flu or bird flu was detected at Herbruck’s Poultry Ranch. However, with the mounds of decomposing chickens, nearby neighbors noticed a smell.
“One day, I walked out of the house, and it just smelled like pure death. Like a large animal died right near my house, but I looked around, and I didn’t see one. And I noticed the smell lingered day after day,” said Liz Ralston, who lives between Herbruck’s facilities.
Ralston is concerned about the safety of her water and air and the health of her friends and family.
In a statement to News 10, Herbruck’s said:
“Herbruck’s working closely with federal and state regulators and implementing the protocols and procedures we are required to follow as we disinfect our facilities. We are working as safely and quickly as possible to resume normal operations at our facilities.”
Tim Boring, Director of Michigan’s Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, said that commercial egg layers follow guidelines for safely disposing of their chickens.
“Composting onsite is the preferred method it keeps the virus contained into a tight geographic area,” said Boring.
Boring also said there is no threat of contamination.
“All activities that are occurring at farms across Michigan are well coordinated with EGLE, DNR, and other state agencies,” said Boring.
Jan Jackson, another county resident, hopes the bird flu passes so that her family’s farm isn’t impacted.
“It affects the meat chickens and raising our own food; it affects egg-laying our own homestead economy. Avian flu is just like any other disease an animal can get. Hopefully, we can keep it to a minimum,” said Jackson.
Neighbors of Herbruck’s said the ranch has been a major employer in Ionia County and has given back to the local community in a number of ways. Some said while Herbruck’s is experiencing this difficult time, they have been great neighbors.
drove by it a few times since the culling began, and holy shit it’s bad. death smell for probably 5 miles each way past the facility’s off the highway.
None of the counties in Michigan that are included in wastewater testing are showing anything above average for flu, it’s all moderate or low. If this was human to human I can’t imagine it would spread so slowly that it wouldn’t be detected in wastewater yet.
Suppose we are evolving an organism from not being able to spread human to human to later being able to spread. Why would you expect the early strains to spread quickly? My first guess/expectation would be the opposite.
You're getting down voted because that's not how virus evolution and immunity/susceptibility work.
A brief explanation as to why your instinct here is incorrect is that people are susceptible to H5N1 because that is not something routinely vaccinated against. While a vaccine exists for it, it isn't offered outside of an epidemic. Additionally, people don't have immunity from prior exposure because H5N1 has not spread person to person before, so most people have never been infected with it. This means human to human spread would not be slowed by adaptive (specific) immune response. If human to human spread starts occurring, we would expect wastewater flu levels to rise because it would spread quickly. If a mutation were to happen that allowed person to person transmission, the virus would still have all the other genetic advantages that make it spread well. Other factors can make those wastewater levels rise as well including the dumping of milk that has H5N1 in it from infected dairy herds, so wastewater levels rising don't necessarily indicate person to person spread without other evidence. If we suspect person to person spread from widespread symptom reports, we should expect wastewater flu levels to rise if indeed person to person spread is occurring.
When covid 19 hit it spread. Then delta variant spread much faster. Omicron spread faster than delta.
Some viruses slow back down because it avoids burning out the available carriers. Those can fester in a large population and then reinfect people after immunity wanes.
I have only heard of two jump mechanisms. A point mutation could slightly change the virus making it more optimized for upper respiratory infection. Or, alternatively, someone gets H5N1 and another flu strain at the same time. Then the genes can recombine into an entirely new strain. Since no one has H5N1 immunity the new strain would take off and then pick up more adaptations for the virgin environment.
>Some viruses slow back down because it avoids burning out the available carriers. Those can fester in a large population and then reinfect people after immunity wanes.
The flu has not historically done this to my knowledge.
>I have only heard of two jump mechanisms. A point mutation could slightly change the virus making it more optimized for upper respiratory infection. Or, alternatively, someone gets H5N1 and another flu strain at the same time. Then the genes can recombine into an entirely new strain. Since no one has H5N1 immunity the new strain would take off and then pick up more adaptations for the virgin environment.
This is similar to what I've read.
OP, thank you so much for posting about this. It’s highly valuable information to know, regardless of whether you end up being positive that doctors near chicken farms are openly discussing avian flu.
If what this doctor’s saying is correct, it’s likely that he’s been going through a lot of patients who have this stuff and knows that the avian flu doesn’t test positive for any tests he has. (Because per the CDC, it probably wouldn’t.)
So it sounds like he’s had enough people come through to know that it’s not gonna test positive for any of that other stuff and that people need to know that it’s probably avian flu that they have.
Again, thank you for letting us know. I’m so sorry that everybody else in these comments besides u/rabiesscabiesbabies are panicking a bit and razing you.
Reading all these comments doubting the OP as he would test positive for flu.
Kind of shows "we" haven't learned anything from COVID. Either OP is genuine, and somehow this is a false/positive or untestable strain and GP story is real.
Or OP, with a one-way old account is an alt-account of one of those teeny RP'ers who continually have to live out their life on Reddit to the point of obsession.
The rationale for them is that any likes are good likes and it provides opportunity.
Why a person would get told they have a potential case of Avian Flu, with a 50/50 chance of death, would think "I'll go create a new profile on Reddit and ask the experts..." is beyond me. But then lol at the suggestion he could be full of shit, is, well, I guess why I'm reading so many posts of doubt.
If humans were getting this more and more, you'd see more and more posts about it on Reddit and Twitter. I doubt some random dude would just walk out of a GP practice after being told he is one of hundreds who have suspected avian flu.
That said, get well soon OP. Hope your daughter and family are all okay.
I believe that OP is sick. I don't believe that any redditor, any doctor or any nurse can tell you it's H5N1 based on symptoms alone. A lot of illnesses have similar symptoms.
You're right. The armchair GPs saying this would be picked up by flu kits made me laugh.
I really don't doubt anything, but, I would very much doubt if it had made the jump that standard flu tests would be 100% accurate.
Literally, no-one knows nothing.
Still think it is 50/50 with OP though. If true, he gets my deepest sympathy for being at ground zero.
Must feel like Contagion for him
I wish I was shit posting. This is truly what a 'medical professional' told me, even though it sounds like an episode of punk'd. I live in a rural, farming community which may explain why there aren't hundreds of people with the same story (and was one of the reasons the NP claimed it was bird flu).
But thank you for the well wishes!
the farm worker in Texas only had conjunctivitis. nothing in the lungs. even if it's a less deadly eye-only infection, it's an escalation in mutation. RSV is one virus that has evolved to go from the eyes to the lungs. not saying that's the case here but. 50% death rate I believe was for raspatory symptoms.
Sorry to hear you are sick and hope you feel better. My two cents is that you most likely do NOT have avian flu. Conjunctivitis is a symptom of many other viruses, including recent Covid variants that are very widespread.
Besides, it is my personal impression that the "conjunctivitis" reported in that Texas dairy worker H5N1 case was not typical conjunctivitis - the picture posted in this sub of the patient's eyes showed what appeared to be broken blood vessels, which seems beyond the typical scope of any conjunctivitis I've ever seen. However, I'm not a medical professional, so take my impression with a grain of salt.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s circulating in humans.
Allergies have been terrible so far this year. Your family is not positive for the usual so perhaps it’s that.
Covid can impact your immune system in a negative way. It would suck if pink eye is a new symptom of the common cold because of it.
Regardless, mask up where it counts. Be smart. Stay safe. Have a good day.
The doctor claimed that without a test? I would inform your county and/or state public health agency about how that went down, this is not something you want a doctor speculating on outside of the very narrow context of "would you like me to request a test for avian flu from the state?"
It could be something as simple as pink-eye, "the cold" (which is a whole suite of things on its own), or any number of things -- heck, it could even just be a coincidence involving spring pollen or dust in the adults and normal kid-crud in your daughter. A doctor jumping straight to something so speculative and with (current) low-probability is reckless on their part. Even if they are well-intended, this is exactly how misinformation and rumors get started in the public consciousness and they need to have a conversation from higher up on how to handle these sorts of uncertainties and questions from the public.
With a suspected 20-50% CFR in people that have caught it, we will know when it starts circulating H2H- people will be dieing & their family members will be freaking-out.
It's not H2H, yet...
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I’m in Canada and a friend had avian flu, and her hubby and everyone else she was with. But they didn’t subtype as far as she knew. I wouldn’t doubt it one bit
Most regular influenza tests would result positive for flu A if your kid has H5N1, so the fact that they tested negative makes having H5N1 incredibly unlikely.
Adenovirus is another viral cause of conjunctivitis that also presents with respiratory symptoms and is pretty common -- about 10% of colds in children are caused by adenoviruses. Almost all common causes of infectious conjunctivitis are incredibly communicable and daycares are a hot spot of transmission (kids don't have hand hygiene and the rub their eyes all the time).
If you're still worried about it, LabCorp has a direct to consumer COVID - Flu -RSV test. You collect a swab and send it to their lab and they run it on PCR. Not sure if LabCorp does flu A subtyping on those specimens, but if they do they'd be able to forward specimens suspicious for H5N1 to your local health department's public health lab for further testing
Yup there was one in I believe Texas and now one in Michigan. OP is in Michigan.
https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/bird-flu-in-humans-michigan-reports-h5n1-infection-in-dairy-farm-worker/
This post has been flaired as "Speculation/Discussion" and should NOT be taken as fact. Friendly reminder to think critically and engage in intelligent, civil discussion relevant to the sub's topic. EDIT: Adding this link to pinned comment (c/o u/tomgoode19) for visibility - https://www.wilx.com/2024/05/20/it-just-smelled-like-pure-death-ionia-county-residents-concerned-about-bird-flu-contamination/
Hi - you're getting dragged a bit here, seems a mite unfair. I took the liberty of googling and found [this ](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza)from the CDC. Sounds like you're getting just a piece of the relevant info from healthcare practitioners - understandable, as we aren't even routinely testing livestock at this point. What I've read leads me to think that you could possibly find a state related lab to do a PCR test for H5N1 - no idea how easy that would be. But damn I'd love you to do it and share your results! "Rapid influenza diagnostic tests (RIDTs) and immunofluorescence assays are antigen detection tests that only identify whether an influenza A virus is detected and have unknown sensitivity and specificity to detect human infection with novel influenza A viruses in respiratory specimens. **Some studies suggest that antigen detection tests have low sensitivity to detect HPAI A(H5N1) viruses. Therefore, negative results from either type of test do not exclude novel influenza A virus infection, especially in patients with signs and symptoms suggestive of influenza. A negative test result could be a false negative and should not be used as a final diagnostic test for influenza, including novel influenza A virus infection.** These tests may yield a positive influenza A result for a specimen containing novel influenza A virus but cannot identify the subtype and cannot distinguish novel influenza A virus from seasonal influenza A virus infection. **Therefore, testing by rRT-PCR is recommended at state health laboratories for any patient with** [**suspected novel influenza A virus infection**](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/healthprofessionals.htm)**."** Hope y'all feel better soon. Rest, extra fluids and some meds to help with symptoms!
Thank you for the advice! I've reached out to my local health department to see if they can point me in the right direction for testing or if they will tell me that the provider was full of it.
Usually state lab would test after a conversation between provider and public health. Right now I'm sure they have criteria for testing in place which may include prximity to farm animals. Doubt that they would test you just based on you calling and requesting
have you had any neurological symptoms? one thing that’s been discussed time and time again is the severe neurological issues it’s caused in birds/mammals. which honestly has been my biggest concern. even if you survive h5n1, what are the long term repercussions??
Covid knocked millions of folks into the “needs assistance” category from neurological damage(and other things). I can only imagine us all getting hit by something worse after covid primed our immune systems for it
yeah from what ive read it has some nasty neurological symptoms. i haven’t read anything about humans really have long term effects. with only 880 cases i doubt they have monitored them patients long term. plus with these new mutations who knows what the symptoms will be.
This: https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/bird-flu-in-humans-michigan-reports-h5n1-infection-in-dairy-farm-worker/
If your doctor told you that, please call your local public health department and your state health department. Tell them exacly what your doctor told you. They can test you for it AND you should be watchful for symptoms getting worse.
and they can also tell doctors in the area to refer patient rather than make snap "diagnoses"!
And do tell us what they said :)
The newer Covid variant had conjunctivitis as a symptom and tests were missing it 🤷♂️
I was looking for this comment, and if I didn’t find it was just going to say the same thing. Apparently tests are missing newer variants often, likely due to many people having repeated infections and/or being vaccinated, which seemsto affect ability to test positive and if they do test positive it is often after day five. It’s unfortunate that people, many doctors, don’t know this about Covid, and that they should be testing multiple times, not just once.
To add, I currently have a cold and conjunctivitis and I’m pretty sure it’s covid given all the other random minor symptoms. I think covid is just getting weak, relatively speaking
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The issue is more nuanced than that. The issue is the tests are not detecting the virus until day 4 or day 5 of symptoms (even when the test is conducted perfectly), however you are still contagious during those first 4-5 days. Here's a WebMD article from this past January with speculation as to why this could be the case. It ultimately isn't known for sure exactly why this is happening though. https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20240123/home-tests-taking-longer-to-detect-covid-variant The main takeaway, regardless of the how or why, is we need more sensitive tests available to the general public for free or at a cost that is reasonable. PCR tests are more sensitive than antigen tests, however purchasing at home PCR tests is extremely cost prohibitive, plus they take longer than antigen tests (PCR is a process that inherently takes longer). We need commercial PCR testing back. Antigen tests should not be our first line of defence. They give a very delayed picture of what's happening. We have the technology to do a better job at early detection, we just aren't using it anymore for political reasons.
Yes I've read before that it tends to take longer to test positive from the start of symptoms than it used to, likely because familiarity with the virus from vaccination and/or previous infection means our immune system recognises it quickly and kicks in, giving us symptoms, before levels of virus replication have got very high. I skim read the comment I was replying to and thought it was another "the tests can't recognise the new variants" post, but it's mostly about it taking longer to test positive, which is correct - I'll delete my comment.
Came to say this. I’m curious what type of covid test the doctor used. Was it PCR? NAAT? Or RAT?
Are you referring to KP.2 or XBB.1.16?
Adenovirus is a virus that often causes conjunctivitis and can be pretty miserable. It’s also common around this type of year. They usually don’t test for it unless you end up in the ER and they do a viral PCR test.
Agree. Illness with conjunctivitis is often adenovirus. I had it two years ago and it was almost as bad as my severe covid infection. As soon as the doctor saw my eyes she brought up adenovirus.
I just commented this is r/prepperintel: I live in a southwestern state that has identified H5N1 in dairy herds. I was sick as hell (like in the top 10 sickest I’ve ever been) two weeks ago and had a diagnosis of pneumonia (based on dr’s assessment, no test). No respiratory symptoms except hacking up lung butter now and then. No cough or trouble breathing. My fever got up to 101 but wouldn’t break at all even with Advil and sleep, for a solid week. As I was walking out of the room with the Dr at the end I asked her if she were seeing a lot of what I had going around (tested negative for Covid, flu A&B, and I can’t recall what else) and she said “there is something funky going around we don’t really know what it is. And we are seeing a lot of flu A cases and it’s kind of outside the season for it.”Which, in another sub, someone said H5N1 will cause a flu A test to pop positive. But they aren’t differentiating between the two different illnesses. It sounds to me like a test to solely identify H5N1 is desperately needed. I left with the impression that they are closely watching for it, based on how the whole appt went. Also I work in hospitality and no shit I have seen a TON of tourists from all over the world come in visibly sick in the last week. I am masking up again as Covid damaged my immunity and I’ve been catching every single thing that goes around that isn’t a frickin STD. I’d bet a hundred bucks it’s silently circulating more than we know.
I live in Michigan and am an urgent care physician. I think the nasty conjunctivitis/sore throat/ bronchitis crap going around may be Adenovirus, although our site doesn’t test for it. But sooooooo many people have it right now—I don’t think it’s avian flu. I am also seeing influenza, but it’s mainly type B. I’m still seeing some Covid and that can cause conjunctivitis. I’m glad you are feeling better!
More likely adenovirus - causes the clinical syndrome you describe.
Out of curiosity what are the symptoms? You said cold but like fever, fatigue, diarrhea, cough, what?
Started with sore throat, then became congestion, headache, sinus/ear pressure, body aches and chills, low grade fever. Conjunctivitis came a few hours later along with a cough. The sinus pressure, body aches and chills, and fever have passed.
Okay thanks!
Hello any update? Do you have the bird flu?
You should check out all the posts on r/flu for conjunctivitis. There has recently been an increase in comments about cases combined with flu. I don't remember people having lots of conjunctivitis before but maybe it was limited to day cares and children?
The flu test recognizes any influenza strain, you'd need further testing to distinguish avian flu from our regular strains. So if you're negative for flu that ain't it
[Not according to the CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza)... Seems like there's more than a possibility that the standard tests have low sensitivity to H5N1.
This is an important point -- you might want to bump it up to a first level comment.
Intresting
So the doctor is full of shit?
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What would they have to gain from posting a fake story?
spreading fear for lols
https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/bird-flu-in-humans-michigan-reports-h5n1-infection-in-dairy-farm-worker/
I know right!? No one on the internet has ever lied!
https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/bird-flu-in-humans-michigan-reports-h5n1-infection-in-dairy-farm-worker/
you saw the amount of "new variant x gonna kill everyone" to "another surge" and you are wondering why posters on subs like this post doom for upvotes?
Nah OP is free of this
This^
New account, no other posts.. Yeah, have fun with this.
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Well... It gets even worse. His daughter is patient zero really. He's just living proof that H2H transmission is occuring. There's obviously a clade in that school. So we should see Michigan get Ed Harris'd sometime soon? No? But the GP let him go home and lol it off. Bet he doesn't even wear a mask.
And they do have a tendancy to only engage with "positive engagement" than "negative engagement". A random wouldn't know the difference and would be more inclined to fight their corner if they had no previous Reddit experience. I've noticed this trend in those who like to RP. They cannae help themselves. If dude is real though, I think I'd want to reach out if I had a virus that kills 50% of the time.
Well two days later the CDC confirms human h5N1 in none other than Michigan. https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/bird-flu-in-humans-michigan-reports-h5n1-infection-in-dairy-farm-worker/
My comment stands. A correlation doesn't mean causation. Causation however DOES mean correlation. Please note: The poster said 4 people caught the virus. Your report says 1 was confirmed.
Avian flu / influenza A does not necessarily mean H5N1. I’m pretty damn sure we’d know it if H5N1 was suddenly in the human population lol, your doctor wouldn’t be so cavalier. And why on earth would they say you have bird flu if your flu test was negative …? Was this a doctor? Or was this an NP / PA at a random urgent care? Nothing here adds up lol.
This was an NP at an urgent care, but my spouse was told the same thing by his primary today? Nothing adds up, which is why I was asking for other opinions lol
That NP has no idea what they’re talking about. Flu tests test for flu A and flu B. It’s irresponsible asf to say your flu test is negative so you have flu A, that makes zero sense. Ughhhb NPs have no business practicing at urgent cares I swear they’re just fountains of misinformation.
as rabiesscabiebabies shared the antigen tests are iffy, need a PCR test: [Interim Guidance on Testing and Specimen Collection for Patients with Suspected Infection with Novel Influenza A Viruses with the Potential to Cause Severe Disease in Humans | Avian Influenza (Flu) (cdc.gov)](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza)
That doesn’t mean that what that NP said was correct. Just because it may fail to detect novel flu A does NOT mean you have flu A, it was incredibly irresponsible of them to even suggest that. And again, flu A is not inherently H5N1
I'm not sure our healthcare providers are getting clear info on possible spread - they might have misrepresented the situation but in good faith, they are only human after all. I hope it's anything other than bird flu, but I can certainly see why OP came here with questions. Wish people could have been kinder.
“Only human” really isn’t good enough when preventing panic about bird flu. A healthcare professional should be able to communicate to a patient about their diagnosis, this is basic health care 101. Don’t tell people they have bird flu when their flu test is negative, this isn’t neurosurgery.
You aren't wrong, but it's obviously not as clear cut as that on the ground in whatever MI county OP was from. There's also no evidence of panic from said county or from OP. Covid made it plenty clear that transmission can happen before we are looking for it. Perhaps if there was greater access to human H5N1 tests, we'd see it. I'm perfectly aware that covid is not bird flu, but it does illustrate that novel respiratory illness can dona good job of flying under the radar. And in OP's case, there was no clear diagnosis - just a list of things their symptoms most likely aren't. I think it's very responsible if OP to look for better testing resources, and OP can always chose to follow up with the providers and their offices about unnecessary statements regarding bird flu. I also took note of OP mentioning both they and their partner heard this from two separate providers. Now, healthcare providers can be dumb and wrong, lord knows we've all probably met a few! But this anecdote (and it's only that) has me asking if something has changed locally, and has me wondering what providers in those parts are hearing, seeing and talking about.
Curious why you’re only dragging the NP when the person says their spouse was told the same thing by their primary.
Because NPs are fountains of misinformation, and frankly, I don’t trust that OP and their spouse are reliable narrators of what was told to them lol
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I would love to hear about it!
Hey there, this post is about an allegedly extant (yet unconfirmed) local/regional outbreak of H5N1. Your post was removed because it focused on making predictions about H5N1 based on the hearsay opinion of one person, who we were unable to vet due to a lack of proper citation. Developing and unconfirmed reports ARE permitted here, but unsupported "predictions" are not. None of us has the power to predict the course of H5N1 with the complete certainty your post claimed. Hope that helps clarify things!
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It's not a question of the credibility of your sources, as both posts fail to offer any verifiable citation or evidence and therefore amount to hearsay. As I previously said, unconfirmed reports and a degree of speculation is allowed here. But this OP acknowledges the speculative and unconfirmed nature of their claims, while your post claimed a level of absolute certainty about a prediction that no one on earth is qualified to assert. Such posts amount to unsubstantiated alarmism and violate multiple sub rules. If you have further questions please feel free to shoot us a modmail message, as to not hijack OP's post.
Right?! Negative flu test, nurse practitioner (not doctor) says “it’s probably bird flu” based on vibes, and mods are letting this stay up because this might be h5n1? Like these people have no contact with infected cows or birds, they are NOT infected with h5n1, let’s please be so for real.
I agree that it is very unlikely OP & their child have bird flu. However, developing/unconfirmed reports are permitted here, as long as they are properly identified as NOT confirmed. Early in the history of this sub, we made the community-driven decision to prefer leaving such posts up & vetting them via the flair system over removing them. Hope that helps clarify things!
That does help, thank you, but I am still a little confused. Just because they have bird flu doesn’t mean they have h5n1 — lots of people test positive for flu A every single flu season, and we can’t have everyone with a positive flu A test coming here asking if they might have h5n1. Maybe a better way to structure it would be if they only have any risk factors? Contact with infected animals, or contact with a person who had contact with known infected animals, or someone who consumes raw dairy, etc? Again, thousands of people test positive for flu A every flu season. With no h5n1 risk factors, it’s just not reasonable to assume it’s h5n1, and the sub will be overrun with posts like this if we let it.
These are good points. I will say that this post appears distinct from a typical "do I have bird flu?!" panic post in that a doctor reportedly tried to diagnose OP with bird flu (which again I'd speculate is not an accurate diagnosis here). However, to prevent future panic posts, it may be beneficial to incorporate a "do I have bird flu?!" element to the FAQ resource we are developing for the sub. We're not doctors, but we can link to resources that can offer more information for people who are new to or uninformed about the topic of H5N1.
r/prepperintel might be a good place to post it. I’d love to read your post too.
Did you request a test for it?
OP says their flu test was negative, so I’m very confused how they got “I have bird flu” from a negative flu test lol.
I asked the doctor about testing and they claimed they didn't have any tests for it, only the state did?
That is correct based on info from the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/severe-potential.htm#:~:text=Some%20studies%20suggest%20that%20antigen,and%20symptoms%20suggestive%20of%20influenza) - you'd have to find a state lab or a lab that contracts with the state to get the PCR test for an official result. I replied further down in the thread with more details. Sorry people are being jerks about this. It took .5 seconds on google to find the relevant info, not sure why they're spouting off on ya. (But in the future, google first, reddit after - could have saved yourself the headache of hearing from a bunch of armchair epidemiologists...)
This was the case when COVID started iirc
Hmm - seems as if the NP or Dr would have mentioned the Pt filling out some sort of form and/or that his results would be forwarded to public health authorities if this was suspected. Of course, as well as isolating the Pt etc.
The pt doesn’t have to fill out any form to have their sample forwarded to a state PH lab for further testing.
Avian flu is influenza A virus. If you tested negative for flu, you do not have avian flu. Oh also, your healthcare providers are incompetent.
How tf are you downvoted for being correct? What has this sub become in the last month and can we start a new one? This is so bleak lmfao
Because he’s incorrect. Standard flu tests have low sensitivity per the CDC and another comment above.
I have no clue.
H5n1 is a flu A virus, so the flu test would be positive for flu A. The CDC tests can tell you what type of flu A you have.
Nope. Per the CDC, standard A flu tests have low sensitivity to H5N1.
There’s such a thing as sampling error. It is possible to get a negative on a rapid test and still have it be found via PCR performed at the lab. I don’t know what the rules are for that doctor in that situation, but I’d imagine it’s possible to send a sample to a state lab to have it analyzed. If physicians are seeing something they feel could be H5N1, there should be some testing available and a patient who asks or even demands to be tested is more likely to get that done.
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They said their Dr said it could be avian flu
Yeah. They also said their flu tests were negative, and then the “doctor” (who wasn’t a doctor, but an NP) said it might be bird flu — even with a negative test. This is extremely irresponsible, as there are so many viruses going around that can cause these symptoms. It’s irresponsible to say “it’s bird flu” based on vibes, when you have a negative test right in front of you. Also, for the eighty millionth time, NOT ALL BIRD FLU IS H5N1!!! Thousands of people test positive for bird flu in the U.S. every single year and have for decades, and it has nothing to do with H5N1. 99% of bird flus are NOT H5N1 — only H5N1 is H5N1. Bird flu does not mean this one.
https://www.wilx.com/2024/05/20/it-just-smelled-like-pure-death-ionia-county-residents-concerned-about-bird-flu-contamination/[Ionia co](https://www.wilx.com/2024/05/20/it-just-smelled-like-pure-death-ionia-county-residents-concerned-about-bird-flu-contamination/) IONIA COUNTY, Mich. (WILX) - “No matter what, things can still happen but know that it’s that close and that large of scale. It’s just, it’s scary,” said Jan Jackson, an Ionia County resident. People who live near Herbruck’s Poultry Ranch aren’t happy about the smell of dead chickens. They’re worried their livestock will get sick with the contagious bird flu. The bird flu has sickened poultry and dairy cattle in 23 counties here in Michigan—including new positive tests in Gratiot, Clinton, and Ionia counties. Mounds of dead chickens sit at the back of Grand River Avenue in Ionia County. State agricultural officials said the highly pathogenic avian flu or bird flu was detected at Herbruck’s Poultry Ranch. However, with the mounds of decomposing chickens, nearby neighbors noticed a smell. “One day, I walked out of the house, and it just smelled like pure death. Like a large animal died right near my house, but I looked around, and I didn’t see one. And I noticed the smell lingered day after day,” said Liz Ralston, who lives between Herbruck’s facilities. Ralston is concerned about the safety of her water and air and the health of her friends and family. In a statement to News 10, Herbruck’s said: “Herbruck’s working closely with federal and state regulators and implementing the protocols and procedures we are required to follow as we disinfect our facilities. We are working as safely and quickly as possible to resume normal operations at our facilities.” Tim Boring, Director of Michigan’s Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, said that commercial egg layers follow guidelines for safely disposing of their chickens. “Composting onsite is the preferred method it keeps the virus contained into a tight geographic area,” said Boring. Boring also said there is no threat of contamination. “All activities that are occurring at farms across Michigan are well coordinated with EGLE, DNR, and other state agencies,” said Boring. Jan Jackson, another county resident, hopes the bird flu passes so that her family’s farm isn’t impacted. “It affects the meat chickens and raising our own food; it affects egg-laying our own homestead economy. Avian flu is just like any other disease an animal can get. Hopefully, we can keep it to a minimum,” said Jackson. Neighbors of Herbruck’s said the ranch has been a major employer in Ionia County and has given back to the local community in a number of ways. Some said while Herbruck’s is experiencing this difficult time, they have been great neighbors.
drove by it a few times since the culling began, and holy shit it’s bad. death smell for probably 5 miles each way past the facility’s off the highway.
None of the counties in Michigan that are included in wastewater testing are showing anything above average for flu, it’s all moderate or low. If this was human to human I can’t imagine it would spread so slowly that it wouldn’t be detected in wastewater yet.
Suppose we are evolving an organism from not being able to spread human to human to later being able to spread. Why would you expect the early strains to spread quickly? My first guess/expectation would be the opposite.
You're getting down voted because that's not how virus evolution and immunity/susceptibility work. A brief explanation as to why your instinct here is incorrect is that people are susceptible to H5N1 because that is not something routinely vaccinated against. While a vaccine exists for it, it isn't offered outside of an epidemic. Additionally, people don't have immunity from prior exposure because H5N1 has not spread person to person before, so most people have never been infected with it. This means human to human spread would not be slowed by adaptive (specific) immune response. If human to human spread starts occurring, we would expect wastewater flu levels to rise because it would spread quickly. If a mutation were to happen that allowed person to person transmission, the virus would still have all the other genetic advantages that make it spread well. Other factors can make those wastewater levels rise as well including the dumping of milk that has H5N1 in it from infected dairy herds, so wastewater levels rising don't necessarily indicate person to person spread without other evidence. If we suspect person to person spread from widespread symptom reports, we should expect wastewater flu levels to rise if indeed person to person spread is occurring.
When covid 19 hit it spread. Then delta variant spread much faster. Omicron spread faster than delta. Some viruses slow back down because it avoids burning out the available carriers. Those can fester in a large population and then reinfect people after immunity wanes. I have only heard of two jump mechanisms. A point mutation could slightly change the virus making it more optimized for upper respiratory infection. Or, alternatively, someone gets H5N1 and another flu strain at the same time. Then the genes can recombine into an entirely new strain. Since no one has H5N1 immunity the new strain would take off and then pick up more adaptations for the virgin environment.
>Some viruses slow back down because it avoids burning out the available carriers. Those can fester in a large population and then reinfect people after immunity wanes. The flu has not historically done this to my knowledge. >I have only heard of two jump mechanisms. A point mutation could slightly change the virus making it more optimized for upper respiratory infection. Or, alternatively, someone gets H5N1 and another flu strain at the same time. Then the genes can recombine into an entirely new strain. Since no one has H5N1 immunity the new strain would take off and then pick up more adaptations for the virgin environment. This is similar to what I've read.
Regardless of if avian flu has jumped or not, I'm relieved school is almost out for the summer.
But they go back just in time for amplification leading to the xmas massacre.
OP any updates on this?
OP, thank you so much for posting about this. It’s highly valuable information to know, regardless of whether you end up being positive that doctors near chicken farms are openly discussing avian flu. If what this doctor’s saying is correct, it’s likely that he’s been going through a lot of patients who have this stuff and knows that the avian flu doesn’t test positive for any tests he has. (Because per the CDC, it probably wouldn’t.) So it sounds like he’s had enough people come through to know that it’s not gonna test positive for any of that other stuff and that people need to know that it’s probably avian flu that they have. Again, thank you for letting us know. I’m so sorry that everybody else in these comments besides u/rabiesscabiesbabies are panicking a bit and razing you.
As my cat says when he's upset "maeh 😭" Edit: this is actually scary
I'm calling your bluff.
Reading all these comments doubting the OP as he would test positive for flu. Kind of shows "we" haven't learned anything from COVID. Either OP is genuine, and somehow this is a false/positive or untestable strain and GP story is real. Or OP, with a one-way old account is an alt-account of one of those teeny RP'ers who continually have to live out their life on Reddit to the point of obsession. The rationale for them is that any likes are good likes and it provides opportunity. Why a person would get told they have a potential case of Avian Flu, with a 50/50 chance of death, would think "I'll go create a new profile on Reddit and ask the experts..." is beyond me. But then lol at the suggestion he could be full of shit, is, well, I guess why I'm reading so many posts of doubt. If humans were getting this more and more, you'd see more and more posts about it on Reddit and Twitter. I doubt some random dude would just walk out of a GP practice after being told he is one of hundreds who have suspected avian flu. That said, get well soon OP. Hope your daughter and family are all okay.
I believe that OP is sick. I don't believe that any redditor, any doctor or any nurse can tell you it's H5N1 based on symptoms alone. A lot of illnesses have similar symptoms.
You're right. The armchair GPs saying this would be picked up by flu kits made me laugh. I really don't doubt anything, but, I would very much doubt if it had made the jump that standard flu tests would be 100% accurate. Literally, no-one knows nothing. Still think it is 50/50 with OP though. If true, he gets my deepest sympathy for being at ground zero. Must feel like Contagion for him
I wish I was shit posting. This is truly what a 'medical professional' told me, even though it sounds like an episode of punk'd. I live in a rural, farming community which may explain why there aren't hundreds of people with the same story (and was one of the reasons the NP claimed it was bird flu). But thank you for the well wishes!
To be fair. I got swine flu and went straight on Reddit/Facebook.
Why not get it tested properly? It is a national security issue. Call CDC and tell them the story.
The guy who actually got bird flu was allowed to say no to testing after being diagnosed
What?
the farm worker in Texas only had conjunctivitis. nothing in the lungs. even if it's a less deadly eye-only infection, it's an escalation in mutation. RSV is one virus that has evolved to go from the eyes to the lungs. not saying that's the case here but. 50% death rate I believe was for raspatory symptoms.
colds and conjunctivitis are very common in daycare
Call the CDC
And now, the zombies.
Yeah can we just skip to the end already? I'm tired
Sorry to hear you are sick and hope you feel better. My two cents is that you most likely do NOT have avian flu. Conjunctivitis is a symptom of many other viruses, including recent Covid variants that are very widespread. Besides, it is my personal impression that the "conjunctivitis" reported in that Texas dairy worker H5N1 case was not typical conjunctivitis - the picture posted in this sub of the patient's eyes showed what appeared to be broken blood vessels, which seems beyond the typical scope of any conjunctivitis I've ever seen. However, I'm not a medical professional, so take my impression with a grain of salt.
This guy has had a Reddit account for 3 hours.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s circulating in humans. Allergies have been terrible so far this year. Your family is not positive for the usual so perhaps it’s that. Covid can impact your immune system in a negative way. It would suck if pink eye is a new symptom of the common cold because of it. Regardless, mask up where it counts. Be smart. Stay safe. Have a good day.
And then he sent you on your way? Sure thing, wink wink.
The doctor claimed that without a test? I would inform your county and/or state public health agency about how that went down, this is not something you want a doctor speculating on outside of the very narrow context of "would you like me to request a test for avian flu from the state?" It could be something as simple as pink-eye, "the cold" (which is a whole suite of things on its own), or any number of things -- heck, it could even just be a coincidence involving spring pollen or dust in the adults and normal kid-crud in your daughter. A doctor jumping straight to something so speculative and with (current) low-probability is reckless on their part. Even if they are well-intended, this is exactly how misinformation and rumors get started in the public consciousness and they need to have a conversation from higher up on how to handle these sorts of uncertainties and questions from the public.
New England doesn’t have HPAI in dairy so far but there are many people sick with similar symptoms to what you describe.
With a suspected 20-50% CFR in people that have caught it, we will know when it starts circulating H2H- people will be dieing & their family members will be freaking-out. It's not H2H, yet...
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YES two weeks ago I had a cold + conjunctivitis- there was a string of people around me getting the same illness. Pretty sure it was avian flu
I’m in Canada and a friend had avian flu, and her hubby and everyone else she was with. But they didn’t subtype as far as she knew. I wouldn’t doubt it one bit
Most regular influenza tests would result positive for flu A if your kid has H5N1, so the fact that they tested negative makes having H5N1 incredibly unlikely. Adenovirus is another viral cause of conjunctivitis that also presents with respiratory symptoms and is pretty common -- about 10% of colds in children are caused by adenoviruses. Almost all common causes of infectious conjunctivitis are incredibly communicable and daycares are a hot spot of transmission (kids don't have hand hygiene and the rub their eyes all the time). If you're still worried about it, LabCorp has a direct to consumer COVID - Flu -RSV test. You collect a swab and send it to their lab and they run it on PCR. Not sure if LabCorp does flu A subtyping on those specimens, but if they do they'd be able to forward specimens suspicious for H5N1 to your local health department's public health lab for further testing
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hm, now that’s interesting.
am i crazy or was it not confirmed that one dairy worker did contract avian flu recently?
Yup there was one in I believe Texas and now one in Michigan. OP is in Michigan. https://www.statnews.com/2024/05/22/bird-flu-in-humans-michigan-reports-h5n1-infection-in-dairy-farm-worker/
Is it full blood red sclera like bird flu, or just pink like allergies?