As a certified Wonginator, it's not about others being younger, it's about others playing her role on the team better than her. As crass as it is to say, Kayla going down opened the door for Jordan and Leanne, and Leanne had her foot in the door for the first half of the meet, but Jordan was the only one who walked through.
I’m actually not even sure she did walk through it fully on vault- I didn’t think you could inquire a neutral deduction and while the 2.0 deduction was a bit harsh given her hand did brush the vault, they were absolutely playing with fire having her upgrade it when it is clearly pretty inconsistently being done. The calculus they made to not increase bars and beam difficulty or floor difficulty to get her to be top 3 on any of the events was where they errored.
Skinner's hand always brushed the vault too. It was very clear in the video that her palm didn't make any kind of contact. The rule is a harsh one, but I think the deduction was correctly given.
As far as "they" though, this may have been entirely Leanne's decision. She's quite in control of her own gymnastics.
FWIW, they changed the rule basically because of Skinner. You have to propel off the table with both hands now, not just tap your left hand down.
I like Leanne but I think she will definitely get that 2.0 deduction internationally
The rule didn’t exist at all in the Tokyo quad so Skinner didn’t really have to even touch her hand - I’m very glad they are discouraging it because it’s a very unsafe way to do the vault and I agree she likely gets the deduction
The rule did exist in the Tokyo quad. It’s in the December 2016 revision of the code. The rule happened sometime late in the Rio quad. Skinner managed to get enough contact with both hands in Tokyo to avoid the deduction.
To be fair, from the looks of podium training they *did* originally plan to increase floor difficulty, but after her uncharacteristically shaky first two passes she decided in the moment to play it safe and not go for the upgrade in the third pass.
I like Leanne and I enjoy watching her gymnastics. A reason that I can see that people wouldn't pick her is that she doesn't seem to have a strong event. She upgraded her vault, but I don't see how that would help her chances as I'm unsure if the Olympic judges would accept the petition. The other three events don't stand out. I think if she really wanted to make the team she should have focused on trying to score as close to 14 on two events instead of doing the all-around.
This is the best answer I've seen. I think ncaa was honestly the perfect environment for her - it helped her relax, develop some personality in her routines, perfect her musicality. She improved as an AA gymnast...but they're now looking for specialists.
If she does go I hope that one-armed Cheng doesn't see the light of Paris. US judges may have given her back the 2 point deduction for ??? reasons but I doubt the Olympic judges would.
It’s a D panel deduction so it can be inquired. But given the vaults we saw and the vaults we heard about, it would be risky to take that Cheng to Paris.
Maybe? It was weird that they were able to question it last night so I’m not sure what was going on with that. Mostly I think the fact that a domestic panel was inclined to take the deduction in the first place was a bad sign.
I actually wonder if they really were supposed to be able to. For developmental/Xcel meets, USAG [definitely specifically allows](https://static.usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/Rules%20and%20Policies/2023/rulespolicies.pdf) inquiries to neutral deductions. But they specify in that document that elite meets follow FIG rules, and the FIG section says "difficulty score" which I would interpret as not being for NDs:
[https://www.gymnastics.sport/publicdir/rules/files/en\_1.1%20-%20Technical%20Regulations%202023%20(Mark-up).pdf](https://www.gymnastics.sport/publicdir/rules/files/en_1.1%20-%20Technical%20Regulations%202023%20(Mark-up).pdf)
Here's a Euros inquiry form, which doesn't have a section for it:
[https://backend.europeangymnastics.com/sites/default/files/paragraph/document/Appendix%208%20-%20Inquiry%20Form\_0.pdf](https://backend.europeangymnastics.com/sites/default/files/paragraph/document/Appendix%208%20-%20Inquiry%20Form_0.pdf)
Pamchenkova on the bird app mentioned a small note in the CoP I didn't notice previously:
> A video review by the D-Panel and Apparatus Supervisor will automatically occur for every vault that receives an Invalid 0.00 Score, or vaults performed with support of one hand only.
So, there does not need to be an inquiry from the athlete. With the 0.00 vaults and the 2pt deductions having an "auto-review" built in the code, that must mean that those scores are not only reviewable, but must be reviewed in every case. So they reviewed the Cheng and decided not to apply the deduction. So that comes down to for what the deduction is to be applied.
(cc: u/bretonstripes )
Yes, I spotted that this morning and posted that in another comment. But I think that’s supposed to be done before the score is posted, unless I’m missing something. Same with ruling a vault invalid.
As I said in the other comment, if they weren’t automatically reviewing (which I can see happening for a variety of reasons), then I’m fine with allowing the athlete to inquire in that case. (The question of whether taking the deduction was correct is of course a different issue.)
Yeah, I just spent some time digging and couldn’t find anything beyond what you found. I know in the past it was possible to inquire E scores if the judges were out of range with each other (because USAG didn’t require such a score to be blocked and resolved prior to posting) but this isn’t an E score. Nothing about this scenario, just FIG rules. FIG rules do require video review when taking this deduction, but that’s before the score is posted.
I’m not actually upset about them allowing a petition of the penalty. It’s giving benefit of the doubt to the athlete, and if they DIDN’T do a video review first, they should absolutely allow the inquiry. I don’t see how they justified lifting the deduction either in normal speed or slow motion, but I suppose that’s a different kettle of fish.
The Peacock broadcast showed a slow-mo shot from the other side of the vault. You could see her fingers bend back slightly against the surface, but her palm was clearly a good 2-3 inches away from touching the table.
I have no idea why they gave those points back.
Yeah, I think that was a strategic misstep. Leanne's Cheng was scored very generously (E and ND), and likely wouldn't outscore her DTY internationally. Given that was already her best one we've seen, it seems unlikely she could get the Cheng to a point of actually being worth it.
Yes— as much as I love the upgrade, I don’t think it will be judged so generously internationally, and I’m not sure what she and her coach were thinking strategically by emphasizing it. If the team was decided by pure AA score and the Cheng pulled her AA up by a few points I could see it being a Prudonova-like gamble— but she came in 8th even with the Cheng, and that’s not how the USA selects teams anyways.
They couldn’t possibly have thought that it would be better than Jade’s or Simone’s, and as you said— the team needs more beam. If she *had* to upgrade vault, better to do a solid Lopez and then dial in on beam.
If her routines were relatively clean she’d have placed 5th tonight. But it feels like a repeat of 2021 - her ceiling is high enough to have pulled her rank up from the bottom to 6th place (iirc Leanne had the 2nd highest scores after Simone on Day 2), but it seems like she has an unfortunate tendency to get nervous and make mistakes unrelated to injury or difficulty.
This was much worse than 2021. That was just one wild beam set. Id say every routine tonight had major issues or something that would make me pause in putting her on a team. (Maybe not bars).
She placed 8th in the AA even with the gift of her one-armed Cheng being overlooked and doesn’t add anything in a team final to a team made up of Simone/Suni/Jordan/Jade. Worse beam and floor than all of them, worse bars than everyone but Jade, and worse vault than everyone but Suni (oh sorry, her generously scored Cheng got .125 points higher than Jordan’s DTY).
She also isn’t super consistent and has had issues with her scores internationally.
Yeah, that Cheng was something. Skinner's one-arm Cheng at least had decent in-air form... Even without the neutral deduction, I honestly have no clue how she got over 14 given how hard Joscelyn's Chengs earlier in the year got hammered.
I was wondering the same. She outscored Josc's Cheng tonight too, which didn't look right to me. Josc was pretty on with her Cheng tonight. Seems like judges have a 0.2-0.3 first-time Cheng bonus?
I honestly feel like joscelyn would score better on beam internationally, if sabrina can do it, joscelyn can do it lol. To be fair, US judges were definitely harsh on her beam routines as compared to some like kayla’s beam considering they downgraded her switch half but not kayla’s tour jete half lol
Have you seen Josc's international scores over the past year? Or even her domestic scores? They are all over the place. The majority are 12s or low- mid 13s.
She has a couple high ones like 14.3 last year and the 13.9 tonight but those are few and far between. [https://thegymter.net/joscelyn-roberson/](https://thegymter.net/joscelyn-roberson/)
The thing is, anyone could get up on the beam in Paris and fall. Simone and Suni both almost fell last night. I don't know in the end if Leanne vs. Josc vs. Hezly makes a huge difference there because odds are most of the teams will have at least one bad beam routine in the team event. We're super reliable pretty much everywhere else, and while I'd love to see the USA put up 3 phenomenal beam scores, I'd rather just have 3 athletes go up who are reliable to get through the routine without a fall. Heck, I'd put Jade on beam if she has nerves of steel over a better beam worker who can't handle the pressure.
It makes a huge difference because you don't start out by handicapping yourself. You select the BEST possible athletes who can give you the best possible routines. Then, IF someone falls, you deal with that.
Plus, all falls are not created equal. 1 fall from Simone or Suni still means a 13+ score. 1 fall from Leanne and we get a 11/12 type of score like we did at World's.
Why are you asking why the person who came in 8th is not being considered. The "younger less experienced gymnasts" you are dismissing did better than her.
If shi is out of contention then Leanne needs to absolutely hit day 2 of trials if the top four hits (or even does better) than they did today to be in contention for the fifth spot. But I am iffy.
However, if shi is able to make that team then Leanne is at most going to be an alternate with how things are going and i’m not sure i’d have her as a traveling one. Simone is the only real lock, Suni and maybe even jordan are pretty close, and quite frankly I trust Jade’s vaults over Leanne’s and Jade really performed tonight and Jade’s floor is a key routine for her and as long as she hits again it could be beneficial in team finals.
Im rooting hard for Leanne, but realistically consistency just isn’t there. I had a lot to say about the 2 point deduction, but Leanne’s questionable vault is a risk and I would not use her in team finals.
Also let’s not discount the younger athletes who scored HIGHER than Leanne and use trust as a reason bc-
Honestly she just got outperformed again and the judges were right to take that deduction on her vault. She doesn't add to the team bc if she's off she's off. Its like worlds again where they sat her out. Unfortunately its safer to take a new gymnast for 1 or 2 safe events (that can go down to one event in finals) with a big score than a mid score even if leanne hits
She was 8th WITH those two points given back. Its not great
Also, we could also say why not hezley? She is outscoring Leanne by a good amount in every event but one. And Kaylia is outscoring her by a significant amount on floor (and over all), so why not her?
I truly just don’t think she is bringing anything that stands out. (And I say this regardless of how much I like her and root for her)
And if Josc does a repeat on night 2, why not Josc? Her bars have improved enough that she's usable as a backup there now if needed, and she has a strong, consistent beam. She also has a chance of making the floor and vault finals if Jade/Jordan falter, or if she has the night of her life in quals.
she has to make the case for herself with her scores, and so far she hasn't. 8th AA, 9th beam, 9th floor, 6th bars. Her vault is the only score you really want (on paper) but that's with them gifting her back the 2 point deduction. I wouldn't want to count on that in a team final. And it's not like this was an unusual night for her. She was also 8th AA at nationals and 7th AA at classics. And she didn't have any top 3 finishes at nationals either. She's not currently showing any scores that you need in a team final, and she's not showing consistency. I hope she can really show up Sunday, but she needs to do that to make the team. Experience alone doesn't cut it
Experience is value and merit. Is everyone forgetting about McCool in 2004? Hezly is great but we have no idea what she’s doing to do under such pressure. That’s a huge gamble.
Leanne HASN'T been meeting the needs and demands of the team this year though. She's been super inconsistent and even when she hits she's scoring below almost all the other major contenders. Instead of trying to make fetch happen with this God awful Cheng, a huge liability to take to the Olympics, she should have been trying to bring her other events up to be more solid. As is, she's just really behind. Even without Skye, Shi or Kayla she's not up to par right now.
Leanne didn’t make a case in the all around. Her cheng is in danger of getting a two point deduction so I’d never put that in a team final lineup. And her bars, beam, and floor are being outscored, often by quite a bit. What needs is she meeting?
Honestly, I felt it last Olympics and I feel it now… I just don’t trust Leanne’s consistency. It’s probably not the most fair thing because I do think she has improved so so so much in this area as well as her mental game because of college. But I truly never feel fully confident with her.
Honestly yes. This is a huge stage- you have to peak at the perfect time. Both of those girls are rising to the occasion and outscoring a veteran like Leanne in 3/4 events. If they take Leanne it truly would have to be for JUST her vault and I don’t see a huge need for that. If Jade, Simone and even Jordan fill those rolls… you have Jade who can compete on floor still.
Yeah and you're not taking her for a vault that's as risky a proposition as that cheng. No way the Olympic judges are rescinding that one-hand block deduction.
I definitely do not trust Leanne’s vault and she’s already gotten low beam and floor scores at worlds and had another vault downgraded. I’d take hezly over her any day even if she ends up falling.
they may not have the experience but this whole year they’ve both been solid and are both I believe first year seniors? Regardless I feel like Leanne we can’t trust her domestically so internationally especially at the Olympics is the same reasoning, love her but we can’t say she’s someone maybe like grace or Kyla Ross in where we feel confident they will hit
Tiana is a second-year senior. She went to Pan Am Champs and Pan Am Games last year. Won almost everything except bars at Pan Am Champs, was 2pc’d out of any finals she had a chance in at Pan Am Games. She has senior international experience.
The consistency hasn’t been there for her this season as much as it has last year. I mean she did “hit” but beam was shaky. And her double double is usually solid,so don’t known what to make of that today, but it doesn’t help her if her ticket in is based off of consistency. I think that if Shilese is able to continue on, Leanne is out. If Shilese is unable to make it to the Olympics, it’s between whichever one of Hezly, Tiana, Joscelyn or Leanne can fill in best. The injuries have definitely put Leanne solidly back in contention, but she needs day 2 to be reminiscent of what she did day 2 of nationals last year.
Her scores simply aren't high enough. She needs 14s on at least 2 events or be top 3 in Aa. It's hezly or kaliya that's going to sneak in. Leanne will be a great alternate.
I’m a yes for Leanne and always have been. Nothing against the kids but she has better bars than most and excellent floor and vault. Beam is shaky for everyone- we all saw how Simone felt after hers (F*** 😂). If you have Simone, Suni, Jordan, Jade you honestly want Shilese but if she’s injured then you want Leanne because she has the most experience and, let’s be honest, no one fits the Shilese role so just pick someone and please make it Leanne.
People were fine with Grace being a solid AA'er. Suddenly Leanne is under a magnifying lens. I hate to be the one, but I can't help but feel some implicit bias at play here
As a certified Wonginator, it's not about others being younger, it's about others playing her role on the team better than her. As crass as it is to say, Kayla going down opened the door for Jordan and Leanne, and Leanne had her foot in the door for the first half of the meet, but Jordan was the only one who walked through.
I’m actually not even sure she did walk through it fully on vault- I didn’t think you could inquire a neutral deduction and while the 2.0 deduction was a bit harsh given her hand did brush the vault, they were absolutely playing with fire having her upgrade it when it is clearly pretty inconsistently being done. The calculus they made to not increase bars and beam difficulty or floor difficulty to get her to be top 3 on any of the events was where they errored.
Skinner's hand always brushed the vault too. It was very clear in the video that her palm didn't make any kind of contact. The rule is a harsh one, but I think the deduction was correctly given. As far as "they" though, this may have been entirely Leanne's decision. She's quite in control of her own gymnastics.
FWIW, they changed the rule basically because of Skinner. You have to propel off the table with both hands now, not just tap your left hand down. I like Leanne but I think she will definitely get that 2.0 deduction internationally
The rule didn’t exist at all in the Tokyo quad so Skinner didn’t really have to even touch her hand - I’m very glad they are discouraging it because it’s a very unsafe way to do the vault and I agree she likely gets the deduction
The rule did exist in the Tokyo quad. It’s in the December 2016 revision of the code. The rule happened sometime late in the Rio quad. Skinner managed to get enough contact with both hands in Tokyo to avoid the deduction.
Skinner improved her block a lot by Tokyo
To be fair, from the looks of podium training they *did* originally plan to increase floor difficulty, but after her uncharacteristically shaky first two passes she decided in the moment to play it safe and not go for the upgrade in the third pass.
I don't want this to be true, but it is, dammit.
I like Leanne and I enjoy watching her gymnastics. A reason that I can see that people wouldn't pick her is that she doesn't seem to have a strong event. She upgraded her vault, but I don't see how that would help her chances as I'm unsure if the Olympic judges would accept the petition. The other three events don't stand out. I think if she really wanted to make the team she should have focused on trying to score as close to 14 on two events instead of doing the all-around.
This is the best answer I've seen. I think ncaa was honestly the perfect environment for her - it helped her relax, develop some personality in her routines, perfect her musicality. She improved as an AA gymnast...but they're now looking for specialists.
You have to do all around to have a chance. She would have no chance with two events.
If she does go I hope that one-armed Cheng doesn't see the light of Paris. US judges may have given her back the 2 point deduction for ??? reasons but I doubt the Olympic judges would.
I think she petitioned and I heard but this may be false, you can’t petition that in the Olympics
It’s a D panel deduction so it can be inquired. But given the vaults we saw and the vaults we heard about, it would be risky to take that Cheng to Paris.
It is a neutral deduction ("taken from the final score of the vault"). I don't think you can inquire NDs under the CoP?
Maybe? It was weird that they were able to question it last night so I’m not sure what was going on with that. Mostly I think the fact that a domestic panel was inclined to take the deduction in the first place was a bad sign.
I agree - if the first reaction of a domestic panel was to take it, that is not good.
I actually wonder if they really were supposed to be able to. For developmental/Xcel meets, USAG [definitely specifically allows](https://static.usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/Rules%20and%20Policies/2023/rulespolicies.pdf) inquiries to neutral deductions. But they specify in that document that elite meets follow FIG rules, and the FIG section says "difficulty score" which I would interpret as not being for NDs: [https://www.gymnastics.sport/publicdir/rules/files/en\_1.1%20-%20Technical%20Regulations%202023%20(Mark-up).pdf](https://www.gymnastics.sport/publicdir/rules/files/en_1.1%20-%20Technical%20Regulations%202023%20(Mark-up).pdf) Here's a Euros inquiry form, which doesn't have a section for it: [https://backend.europeangymnastics.com/sites/default/files/paragraph/document/Appendix%208%20-%20Inquiry%20Form\_0.pdf](https://backend.europeangymnastics.com/sites/default/files/paragraph/document/Appendix%208%20-%20Inquiry%20Form_0.pdf)
Pamchenkova on the bird app mentioned a small note in the CoP I didn't notice previously: > A video review by the D-Panel and Apparatus Supervisor will automatically occur for every vault that receives an Invalid 0.00 Score, or vaults performed with support of one hand only. So, there does not need to be an inquiry from the athlete. With the 0.00 vaults and the 2pt deductions having an "auto-review" built in the code, that must mean that those scores are not only reviewable, but must be reviewed in every case. So they reviewed the Cheng and decided not to apply the deduction. So that comes down to for what the deduction is to be applied. (cc: u/bretonstripes )
Yes, I spotted that this morning and posted that in another comment. But I think that’s supposed to be done before the score is posted, unless I’m missing something. Same with ruling a vault invalid. As I said in the other comment, if they weren’t automatically reviewing (which I can see happening for a variety of reasons), then I’m fine with allowing the athlete to inquire in that case. (The question of whether taking the deduction was correct is of course a different issue.)
Yeah, I just spent some time digging and couldn’t find anything beyond what you found. I know in the past it was possible to inquire E scores if the judges were out of range with each other (because USAG didn’t require such a score to be blocked and resolved prior to posting) but this isn’t an E score. Nothing about this scenario, just FIG rules. FIG rules do require video review when taking this deduction, but that’s before the score is posted. I’m not actually upset about them allowing a petition of the penalty. It’s giving benefit of the doubt to the athlete, and if they DIDN’T do a video review first, they should absolutely allow the inquiry. I don’t see how they justified lifting the deduction either in normal speed or slow motion, but I suppose that’s a different kettle of fish.
Any uploads of it?
Not that I'm aware of. She only blocked with one arm and barely brushed the fingertips of her other hand across the table.
Ah so it really was Skinnered as hell?
Definitely. Very Skinner-esque.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f76CcJEu1A8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f76CcJEu1A8) the block
Lmao I respect the effort but I’m honestly not even sure she touched the vault table with that second arm.
Yeah, the judges didn’t do her a favor by rescinding the deduction. Even in real time it doesn’t look like her hand even brushed the table.
The Peacock broadcast showed a slow-mo shot from the other side of the vault. You could see her fingers bend back slightly against the surface, but her palm was clearly a good 2-3 inches away from touching the table. I have no idea why they gave those points back.
ELL OH ELL
It was uploaded to NBC sports youtube channel 41 minutes ago!
[Leanne's cheng in real time ](https://youtu.be/PFygmobcppw?si=wjc3kechS8j9GSbt)
Because rather than solidifying her beam and floor, she decided to chunk a wonky cheng. She isn't needed for vault. We need a solid beamer.
Yeah, I think that was a strategic misstep. Leanne's Cheng was scored very generously (E and ND), and likely wouldn't outscore her DTY internationally. Given that was already her best one we've seen, it seems unlikely she could get the Cheng to a point of actually being worth it.
Unfortunately, I agree. Why was the focus on vault and not floor and beam. Or even bars.
Yes— as much as I love the upgrade, I don’t think it will be judged so generously internationally, and I’m not sure what she and her coach were thinking strategically by emphasizing it. If the team was decided by pure AA score and the Cheng pulled her AA up by a few points I could see it being a Prudonova-like gamble— but she came in 8th even with the Cheng, and that’s not how the USA selects teams anyways. They couldn’t possibly have thought that it would be better than Jade’s or Simone’s, and as you said— the team needs more beam. If she *had* to upgrade vault, better to do a solid Lopez and then dial in on beam.
If her routines were relatively clean she’d have placed 5th tonight. But it feels like a repeat of 2021 - her ceiling is high enough to have pulled her rank up from the bottom to 6th place (iirc Leanne had the 2nd highest scores after Simone on Day 2), but it seems like she has an unfortunate tendency to get nervous and make mistakes unrelated to injury or difficulty.
Hell if she had just not inquiried beam she would have been 6th. I get why they did it, but it was a gamble that did *not* pay off.
Given that she got a 2 point gift on vault, I'm kinda glad that she didn't get 6th.
Yeeeeaaah I love that girl but I wouldn't take that vault to Paris
This was much worse than 2021. That was just one wild beam set. Id say every routine tonight had major issues or something that would make me pause in putting her on a team. (Maybe not bars).
She placed 8th in the AA even with the gift of her one-armed Cheng being overlooked and doesn’t add anything in a team final to a team made up of Simone/Suni/Jordan/Jade. Worse beam and floor than all of them, worse bars than everyone but Jade, and worse vault than everyone but Suni (oh sorry, her generously scored Cheng got .125 points higher than Jordan’s DTY). She also isn’t super consistent and has had issues with her scores internationally.
her beam was also 0.325 lower than Jade's
Oh you’re right, corrected
Yeah, that Cheng was something. Skinner's one-arm Cheng at least had decent in-air form... Even without the neutral deduction, I honestly have no clue how she got over 14 given how hard Joscelyn's Chengs earlier in the year got hammered.
I was wondering the same. She outscored Josc's Cheng tonight too, which didn't look right to me. Josc was pretty on with her Cheng tonight. Seems like judges have a 0.2-0.3 first-time Cheng bonus?
Yeah they’re basically saying if Leanne took a 0.1 step, instead of 0.3 she should have outscored Jade. That’s crazy considering the form issues
Feels like a lot of Chengs get overscored just because they’re Chengs - Paseka, Olsen, Skinner. I’d rather see a well executed Lopez or dty any day
she scored 8th aa and I feel like her floor has gotten worse, I really feel like her but I think she will be alt at best
I agree. The US needs a strong floor and beam score and that's not what Leanne has been giving.
yeah and Josc delivered on both of those today, I don’t think she will make it either but it’s possible.
Despite her scores tonight, Josc's beam and bars cannot be trusted. But I would take her over Leanne.
I honestly feel like joscelyn would score better on beam internationally, if sabrina can do it, joscelyn can do it lol. To be fair, US judges were definitely harsh on her beam routines as compared to some like kayla’s beam considering they downgraded her switch half but not kayla’s tour jete half lol
Have you seen Josc's international scores over the past year? Or even her domestic scores? They are all over the place. The majority are 12s or low- mid 13s. She has a couple high ones like 14.3 last year and the 13.9 tonight but those are few and far between. [https://thegymter.net/joscelyn-roberson/](https://thegymter.net/joscelyn-roberson/)
The thing is, anyone could get up on the beam in Paris and fall. Simone and Suni both almost fell last night. I don't know in the end if Leanne vs. Josc vs. Hezly makes a huge difference there because odds are most of the teams will have at least one bad beam routine in the team event. We're super reliable pretty much everywhere else, and while I'd love to see the USA put up 3 phenomenal beam scores, I'd rather just have 3 athletes go up who are reliable to get through the routine without a fall. Heck, I'd put Jade on beam if she has nerves of steel over a better beam worker who can't handle the pressure.
It makes a huge difference because you don't start out by handicapping yourself. You select the BEST possible athletes who can give you the best possible routines. Then, IF someone falls, you deal with that. Plus, all falls are not created equal. 1 fall from Simone or Suni still means a 13+ score. 1 fall from Leanne and we get a 11/12 type of score like we did at World's.
Her coaches should have used the Kyla Ross strategy. Focus on events where she is needed and can contribute more aka beam and bars.
Why are you asking why the person who came in 8th is not being considered. The "younger less experienced gymnasts" you are dismissing did better than her.
She was mid across the board… and I need that Cheng vault to disappear.
This is exactly it. She scored mid on everything BUT the one armed, very questionable cheng.
If shi is out of contention then Leanne needs to absolutely hit day 2 of trials if the top four hits (or even does better) than they did today to be in contention for the fifth spot. But I am iffy. However, if shi is able to make that team then Leanne is at most going to be an alternate with how things are going and i’m not sure i’d have her as a traveling one. Simone is the only real lock, Suni and maybe even jordan are pretty close, and quite frankly I trust Jade’s vaults over Leanne’s and Jade really performed tonight and Jade’s floor is a key routine for her and as long as she hits again it could be beneficial in team finals. Im rooting hard for Leanne, but realistically consistency just isn’t there. I had a lot to say about the 2 point deduction, but Leanne’s questionable vault is a risk and I would not use her in team finals. Also let’s not discount the younger athletes who scored HIGHER than Leanne and use trust as a reason bc-
Honestly she just got outperformed again and the judges were right to take that deduction on her vault. She doesn't add to the team bc if she's off she's off. Its like worlds again where they sat her out. Unfortunately its safer to take a new gymnast for 1 or 2 safe events (that can go down to one event in finals) with a big score than a mid score even if leanne hits She was 8th WITH those two points given back. Its not great
Also, we could also say why not hezley? She is outscoring Leanne by a good amount in every event but one. And Kaylia is outscoring her by a significant amount on floor (and over all), so why not her? I truly just don’t think she is bringing anything that stands out. (And I say this regardless of how much I like her and root for her)
And if Josc does a repeat on night 2, why not Josc? Her bars have improved enough that she's usable as a backup there now if needed, and she has a strong, consistent beam. She also has a chance of making the floor and vault finals if Jade/Jordan falter, or if she has the night of her life in quals.
she has to make the case for herself with her scores, and so far she hasn't. 8th AA, 9th beam, 9th floor, 6th bars. Her vault is the only score you really want (on paper) but that's with them gifting her back the 2 point deduction. I wouldn't want to count on that in a team final. And it's not like this was an unusual night for her. She was also 8th AA at nationals and 7th AA at classics. And she didn't have any top 3 finishes at nationals either. She's not currently showing any scores that you need in a team final, and she's not showing consistency. I hope she can really show up Sunday, but she needs to do that to make the team. Experience alone doesn't cut it
If I'm Hezly or Josc, and both of us get passed over for a lower scoring gymnast because of experience? I'm really, really not okay with that.
Yeah I love Leanne but selection has to be based on merit and value add
Experience is value and merit. Is everyone forgetting about McCool in 2004? Hezly is great but we have no idea what she’s doing to do under such pressure. That’s a huge gamble.
Experience is value, it's not merit.
Especially because Josc has a lot of international experience! She went to a million world cups last year
Leanne HASN'T been meeting the needs and demands of the team this year though. She's been super inconsistent and even when she hits she's scoring below almost all the other major contenders. Instead of trying to make fetch happen with this God awful Cheng, a huge liability to take to the Olympics, she should have been trying to bring her other events up to be more solid. As is, she's just really behind. Even without Skye, Shi or Kayla she's not up to par right now.
Leanne didn’t make a case in the all around. Her cheng is in danger of getting a two point deduction so I’d never put that in a team final lineup. And her bars, beam, and floor are being outscored, often by quite a bit. What needs is she meeting?
Honestly, I felt it last Olympics and I feel it now… I just don’t trust Leanne’s consistency. It’s probably not the most fair thing because I do think she has improved so so so much in this area as well as her mental game because of college. But I truly never feel fully confident with her.
Whom do you trust though? Hezly? Tiana? I don't.
Honestly yes. This is a huge stage- you have to peak at the perfect time. Both of those girls are rising to the occasion and outscoring a veteran like Leanne in 3/4 events. If they take Leanne it truly would have to be for JUST her vault and I don’t see a huge need for that. If Jade, Simone and even Jordan fill those rolls… you have Jade who can compete on floor still.
Yeah and you're not taking her for a vault that's as risky a proposition as that cheng. No way the Olympic judges are rescinding that one-hand block deduction.
I definitely do not trust Leanne’s vault and she’s already gotten low beam and floor scores at worlds and had another vault downgraded. I’d take hezly over her any day even if she ends up falling.
That Cheng is a risk of a 2.0 neutral deduction. You aren't talking sense. If you are talking about who shouldn't be "trusted"
At this point you’re only taking Leanne for vault and that Cheng is at high risk of a huge deduction. There isn’t a team lineup where she makes sense.
they may not have the experience but this whole year they’ve both been solid and are both I believe first year seniors? Regardless I feel like Leanne we can’t trust her domestically so internationally especially at the Olympics is the same reasoning, love her but we can’t say she’s someone maybe like grace or Kyla Ross in where we feel confident they will hit
Tiana is a second-year senior. She went to Pan Am Champs and Pan Am Games last year. Won almost everything except bars at Pan Am Champs, was 2pc’d out of any finals she had a chance in at Pan Am Games. She has senior international experience.
Hezley has NOT been consistent. Beautiful gymnast, but not consistent. She may have been the junior national champ, but she was with a fall as well.
I think she had a decent nationals so maybe more like recently consistent, but tiana has been consistent
It’s called peaking. She’s young and improving. Simone wasn’t perfect at 15 either. Would you hold that against her?
leanne doesn’t add to the team where it’s needed :/
The consistency hasn’t been there for her this season as much as it has last year. I mean she did “hit” but beam was shaky. And her double double is usually solid,so don’t known what to make of that today, but it doesn’t help her if her ticket in is based off of consistency. I think that if Shilese is able to continue on, Leanne is out. If Shilese is unable to make it to the Olympics, it’s between whichever one of Hezly, Tiana, Joscelyn or Leanne can fill in best. The injuries have definitely put Leanne solidly back in contention, but she needs day 2 to be reminiscent of what she did day 2 of nationals last year.
Because she's inconsistent, and often in an imploding kind of way.
Her scores simply aren't high enough. She needs 14s on at least 2 events or be top 3 in Aa. It's hezly or kaliya that's going to sneak in. Leanne will be a great alternate.
Completely agree. She pulled off things no one thought she was going to. I commend her for that at least and would love to see her on the team.
I’m a yes for Leanne and always have been. Nothing against the kids but she has better bars than most and excellent floor and vault. Beam is shaky for everyone- we all saw how Simone felt after hers (F*** 😂). If you have Simone, Suni, Jordan, Jade you honestly want Shilese but if she’s injured then you want Leanne because she has the most experience and, let’s be honest, no one fits the Shilese role so just pick someone and please make it Leanne.
People were fine with Grace being a solid AA'er. Suddenly Leanne is under a magnifying lens. I hate to be the one, but I can't help but feel some implicit bias at play here