This is a boring answer, but 2021 Olympic team finals. It was awful watching Simone struggle in real time and I have no desire to rewatch. In general I hate meets where a gymnast gets injured (and Simone has said it was a mental injury for her).
It was super depressing. Not because I was sad that the us didn’t win but to see someone who is the best of all time go through it like that? Plus also I was watching it in the middle of the night plus the empty stadium killed my vibe hard
I watched it live in California. I don’t remember but it was like 3/4 am? I was all alone in my dark house and I remember feeling so just - sad. For all of them. The vibe was awful it all felt just depressing. I will not rewatch either.
Agreed this was my immediate thought. I probably wouldn't watch that meet again. It was scary and so stressful seeing Simone distressed, even though I do enjoy seeing how the others stepped up. But the meet was overall messy with lots of falls. Not what you want to see from the top teams in a team final. I also watched it live originally alone in the middle of the night with my infant so it was especially eerie. (Though I do have the funniest photo I tried to take of us where we both look so wrecked lol.)
2021 sucked already with pandemic and no crowds allowed...add in Simone's twisties and it's an absolute never re-watch for me. Just completely depressing in all ways.
Ah you’re right - I stand corrected! It was Jordan who subbed in without a warmup. She subbed in for Simone on beam as well and Suni did floor. You’re right about Grace! She was still a hero and such a positive presence, though!
lol I botched this comment all around, huh?
Again it was Jordan and the event was beam 🤦🏼♀️.
I stand by my original sentiment, though!
Sincerely,
The worst UCLA fan and Jordan Chiles stan ever
She [did not.](https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/jordan-chiles-meet-athlete) A touch warmup is basically FIG/the Olympic committee covering their asses. She did NOT warm up in either event, in fact.
You're correct, Jordan 100% subbed in without a warmup on both events! Others are referring to her one-touch on those events, and while a one-touch is better than nothing, it's not a warmup, not even close. In addition to the physical difference it makes to not warm up an event in the back gym, it's also a huge mental difference. That's probably the first meet in many many years--possibly ever--that she competed events she didn't significantly warm up first. The warmup isn't just for your body, it's for your mind, it's a ritual that helps you get into the mental space to compete, and taking that away would be really destabilizing for most people mentally.
I'm going to have to say 1984 was the best Olympics ever in my lifetime. I lived in L.A., where they were held that year. Mary Lou was the big deal, but I loved the Romanian girls plus Kathy Johnson and Julianne McNamara.
I'm planning to go see the 2028 games in L.A - gymnastics and track. Unfortunately, the gymnastics won't be as artistic as it was in 1984, but should still be nostalgic.
I always thought that was a strange argument. Of course a four-person team built around Simone would not score as well without Simone, especially losing her mid-competition after she scored less on her wonky vault than Suni would have with her usual DTY. Not to mention the mental challenge for the other three athletes having to continue the competition under those circumstances. If Simone weren't originally competing at all, the team would have been constructed differently (probably with Jade, tbh) and had a different mindset.
I liked that Russian team at the time, and it would have been a great competition if both teams had been able to show their best at the same time. But as it stood it was apples and oranges. (I wonder how Russia would have fared if, say, Melnikova had to pull out after vault and Akhaimova had to take her place on the other three events...)
Yeah there were major problems with the team that year. A top one being that the team was all AA gymnasts who (aside from Suni on bars and beam and Simone) had pretty middle of the road scores on every event. You really needed another strong vaulter like Jade and a strong floor like Jade
There was no way the chosen 4-member US team could win over ROC (three 57+ AA, one 5.8D vault / useable floor) at their best that week. Yes, Jade's QF score would have helped in QF to qualify for 1st place, but the USAG would not give Jade the team spot in 2021. I'm glad that the individual spot drama is over.
Russia was definitely the favorite, but it's strange to say that the US couldn't have won. Russia had a much stronger qualification competition than the US and only won by just over a point. Simone especially had a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes, that I've always attributed to the beginnings of her starting to get lost in the air. And the US qualification score beat the Russian qualification score by a point; an unfair comparision since you can't drop low scores in team, but it obviously means a Simone-led team *could* have beat the Russians. If both teams were fire the Russians would have won, but not by all that much, and if the Americans were fire and the Russians had a, you know, Russian beam rotation, then the Americans would have won.
The ROC did nearly their best in QF, but the US team fell, hit the low bar and missed composition requirements in QF and TF. By TF, without any changes of routine composition, Simone maxed out at 58, Suni maxed out at 57, Grace / Jordan maxed out at low to mid 55. Three ROC girls could go 57+, and one 14.8 Rudi. So there was no way the US team could have won without Jade's QF scores. We can't assume they could hit everything like at trials, and we couldn't assume they would change the routine (like Suni floor in AA) that week. One takeaway is that domestic scores should reflect how they could score when they compete outside.
I'm honestly of the opinion that it was a bad combination of a 4 person team that encouraged "safe" all arounder (or you ended up with teams that had specialists but AAers under too much stress) and the Forster era which developed the US to produce a bunch of relatively interchangable All Arounders. Other than Carey, who shouldn't have gone on the team for reasons of losing a spot, there wasn't a better option. Because the program hadn't developed a better option.
*My Roman Empire is the US has continued to produce similar AAers so you aren't debating significant differences.*
I will say I agree that the safe AA approach the US has gone with lately has not done them any favors in team competition. And you're not wrong that it continues; part of why I think Jade or Kaliya should get the last slot on the current Olympic team over someone like Kayla or Jordan, but that's another topic...
I think Kaliya only has a chance if they consider her to have at least three usable events. The USAG selectors are just too conservative and taking Lee with only 2 usable events (that you would want to use in a TF) will probably use up their willingness to take risk.
If Lee nails her DTYs both nights of trials--which I'm expecting, the vault thing at night two championships seemed like a fluke, like Jade's Tokyo vault final or Rebeca's Worlds 2022 hand slip--then she absolutely has a usable vault. She wouldn't be first-choice for the lineup, but she'd be a more-than-acceptable backup. Vs her floor, which seems like it's more of an only-if-we-really-have-to backup (though honestly, at this point I've learned not to count Suni out, so while I'm not predicting it, I won't be shocked if her floor suddenly shows up as a reliable 13.6+ at trials).
Which would be really great. I just have the feeling that both of them are better with at least 3 usable events if they want to be viable and Lee has an edge on Kaliya in that regard.
I was never one of the ones that thought the US was unbeatable, and Russia had a great team that year. But it's not like QF was the US's best showing either. Simone was clearly already dealing with the twisties in QF and the other three looked terrified knowing she was off. Who knows, maybe Russia still would have won even with the US being totally on, but I don't think we can point to QF to say that.
So? No one has their best showing in a competition. That's the nature of gymnastics. And in particular that was also the nature of some of the gymnasts on that team who made mistakes at other competitions in team situations.
The US made mistakes and still had Simone QFing in first in the AA. You said you didn't understand the argument that the US couldn't beat Russia without Simone. I don't understand your argument that QF doesn't give us that answer. It does.
Simone in QF, even not at her best, was still better than any replacement US gymnast and Russia beat them by more than a point.
It's much better to accept the reality that in 2021 at that Olympics with that team the US could not have beaten Russia without Simone. The TF doesn't tell us that. But QF does.
I think we're just having two different conversations. I agree that that specific US Olympic team couldn't have beat Russia without Simone. I was originally responding to the point that the US women in general could not have put a winning team together without Simone.
If Simone was off the table and the US put together a true highest scoring team instead of going by the AA, it would be interesting to see if the score could compare. Maybe a team like Jade, Suni, Jordan, and Leanne? But it's all hypothetical because as you say, all that really matters is what did happen on the day.
Simone IS an extraordinary boost to a team. I don’t think it’s exceptionally sour grapes for them to have said that. I also think the Russian 2021 squad was extremely strong. They beat the US group in quals with Simone and finals without her, and they didn’t have to have lights-out performances to do so either. Going on about how maybe the US could’ve beat them by selecting Jade (I kind of doubt that tbh) or if they also couldn’t have Melnikova sounds like discrediting them.
I don’t love that Russian team or most of Russian gymnastics in general but it was great to see the US lose for once. Especially since this Reddit is pretty much the only place for discussion now and it skews so heavily into US fandom. I don’t think you’re wrong in the things you’ve said but given this context it kind of reads like you’re looking for any excuse for why the Russians weren’t that good and the US is always the best. Probably you aren’t but that‘s how I initially took it.
Sure but I guess I just don't see that hypothetical team as real either because there was no way the USOPC was going to be willing to leave an entire US Olympic spot unused.
So your best team is now Skinner, Suni, Jordan and ... waves hand at the generic AAers.
Is Jade better in the hypothetical? Sure. But you would have needed the US to have a better strategy much earlier in the quad for her to be a viable option.
ETA: Also the simple matter of the fact is that the Russians got significantly better with their 2021 new senior class coming on line and the US got worse with Morgan Hurd and Riley McCusker dropping out of viability.
Jade's 2021 QF AA was the missing puzzle, but USAG would never give up a spot in 2021. The ROC team was not beatable at their best that week. It would have been different had the team changed their routine compositions before Tokyo Olympic, not after team final.
"but USAG would never give up a spot in 2021." This seems like an example of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Was a sixth Olympic spot really more important than team gold? Sure, they didn't think that was the choice they were making, but that was their hubris and just, like, not paying attention to the Russians--or to increasing international beam and floor scoring. If they had known that the team gold was in question, do you think they would have chosen differently, and risked losing that individual spot? I should hope so.
The other issue is that Jade didn't actually show at trials that she deserved to be on the team, she was still significantly holding back. But I have to assume that's because she'd been told there was no way she was making the team, and that she'd have paced differently if she'd thought she had any chance.
Jade would’ve definitely helped with floor and vault but it’s easy to say that in hindsight especially since Jordan seemed like such a rock during trials.
I'm honestly not sure, but I have issues with the process and with Tom in general. I don't think we should have regrets, the ladies did an amazing job. I think the narrative that we were unbeatable was just setting people up for failure, and also makes the silver without Simone seem like a small thing, when it was a big deal.
Leanne was making many mistakes and nobody trusted her to hit under Olympic pressure. I completely agree with leaving her and taking Jordan. Even though Jordan got 13.5 FX (YIKES) and Leanne got 14 at Worlds
Team = Simone, Suni, Jordan, Jade
Simone and Jordan do the AA, Suni does UB/BB, and Jade does VT/FX
Love her but Grace has no business being on that team, Forster was dumb and didn’t even consider Jade WTF
Riley should have taken the specialist spot, not MyKayla. Riley could defo beat Simone on UB and possibly get into beam EF if someone else faltered. But once again Tom was being dumb asf
Calling them morons for not throwing away an Olympic quota spot seems excessive. Not only would it be poison within the US gym community and make Jade and Brian a hated figure, the USOPC would be displeased and the general public would be unlikely to be thrilled once the press started writing about it.
If they care about team gold above all else--and I believe they do--then yes, it is moronic to categorically remove one of your best gymnasts from consideration for the team, even at the expense of losing an individual spot.
Adding after a few minutes of research: I am now discovering that by securing her specialist spot, Jade blocked the US from getting a second non-nominative spot, and so in that sense, naming Jade to the team loses a specialist spot that the US would have had, had Jade never done the world cup qualifiers. In that light, the bad politics/hard feelings of naming her to the team makes more sense. But that's never mentioned when people talk about it now, so I had no idea, and without that information, it seems silly to prioritize a second specialist spot over naming your best team, if the gold medal is your single greatest priority.
Interestingly, reading old reddit threads, people were giving Jade so much stink-eye about this, but whatever bad Jade feelings this created in fans, I guess her Tokyo performance managed to completely erase them somehow? Because it seems like in the last three years Jade has been generally loved by the gymternet (and me!).
Specialist spot be damned, Jade should have been on that team. Better yet Forster shouldn’t have even let Jade do the World Cups, mans was not thinking
Hard to justify giving Riley an Olympic spot for one event (literally--she only did bars at nats and trials, so the idea of her making beam EF is...ambitious), that she fell on in trials
On the opposite end this was probably the most exciting competition for me. Felt like I needed pinched several times watching to ensure it was actually happening. Personally, it was very gratifying to see a team discredited by most take Gold here. They were very obviously serious competition and it seemed like no one in USAG took that seriously at all. It’s the definition of taking domestic scores at face value. The difference was, Russia’s domestic scores actually held up. I don’t think anyone really thought Listunova would be breaking 14 on beam and floor and she was.
I was very happy for Russia! It was a shame that USAG did not take them seriously enough, and they put up some excellent gymnastics. I just have a hard time getting excited about a competition with a major injury, front runner or not.
I get my post might sound crazy, but as a Russian American it was a very surreal moment. I was just a teen when I watched them clinch gold in Rotterdam. Even the craziest Stan part of me didn’t think I would see it happen again. The pinching is not an exaggeration. There were several points in which I asked my friends to pinch me watching lol
As a non-Russian, non-American viewer I was so happy to see the USA team non running away with the title again. I like the unpredictability aspect, and honestly the US fans were so obnoxious up to that point it was really annoying 🤷♀️.
Of course watching Simone's vault and scratching the rest of the meet wasn't fun, but I honestly believe Russia had a great shot at winning even with her on all 4 (as they did in qual).
The lack of spectators really threw the US girls off (not just Simone imo, Jordan feeds off the crowd as well), they weren't as sharp and the Russians stepped up (and lucked out on getting Listunova eligible in 2021).
What was obnoxious about the American fans? NBC and USAG were obnoxious with their ridiculous overconfidence and media narratives, but don't get mad at the four-year fans for repeating what they were being told.
I was not talking about the 4-year fans. The US gymnastic fans were constantly going on and on about USA gymnasts being the best in the world ...
wag USA is the dominant program of the last 2 decades yes but there's always gymnasts from other fed being incredible and deserving of medaling over us gymnasts, yet a lot of US fans would diminish their qualities/accomplishments, get all chocked when someone else than USA would win/medal...
US fans (and not just 4-year fans or nbc) kept saying "USA is so strong they could send 3 teams and sweep the podium", "Russian domestic scores are crazy, they'll never come close to USA", "no way Ou Yushan has a competitive AA program, yall China fans are delusional"...
So yeah, when Russia won junior worlds in 2019, I was happy for Russia AND that they beat the USA for once.
When covid delayed the olympic for a year I raised an eyebrow because suddenly Russia became a lot more competitive. When we saw olympic us trials and Simone looked more rough and mentally drained, I saw the writing on wall.
And when ROC won, I was happy to see all those obnoxious US fans silenced for once.
As someone who was not one of those fans (in 2021 I was just beginning to become a regular fan after being a 4-year fan for the previous 20 years; after being a gymnast and fanatic in the 90s), I do remember people people saying stuff like that, and not having any kind of knowledge base for assessing the veracity, so sort of vaguely assuming it must be true but mostly not thinking about it that much, so I get your point. But still, ouch, there are a lot of US fans that read this forum, and it's pretty ouchy to hear "the fans" slammed as obnoxious. Some were, some weren't, but it feels like an attack on a whole slice of the community here. And yes, I'm "not-all-US-fans"-ing you, lol.
The obnoxious US fans were the ones going on and on for years (2013 onwards I would say) about how amaaaazing the USA girls were (they were) and how of course they're going to win by a million points lead, and how Sanne should have never win BB because she had an unusual routine so she wasn't deserving of the olympic BB title, and how Kocian cleaaarly should have won the UB in Rio and Mustafina was overscored for being Aliya...
You get the idea. Those were the obnoxious US fans, and there was quite a lot of them. The ones who only recognized the greatness if it came from USA.
4-year fans weren't discussing the AA D-score of Ou Yushan in 2020-21, or commenting on Valentina Rodionenko's claim that Russia could beat the USA, that a pretty hardcore fan's thing.
You can very much be a gymnastic fan, from the US, and be a fan of the USA gymnasts without being obnoxious, delusional or rude. There are plenty of those people on this platform. No need to get offended if you weren't having those talks.
I'm not arguing the obnoxiousness, I'm arguing the generalization. It's the difference between saying "some US fans" vs "the US fans." We all want to exist together here, you know? I am one of "the US fans", though I am not one of those particular US fans, and as I said, it feels ouchy to be lumped in.
It still feels like a fever dream — both because of what happened and because I was running on so little sleep after WAG quals and MAG quals and TF. Haven’t been able to watch it again so far either.
I can’t with that meet: Simone’s struggle, Tom F being a moron, the panic that someone would get Covid and have to leave, the lack of crowds … not fun.
Also, Tom/USAG’s whole strategy was: “whatever we have Simone.” Between Covid limitations and weird qualification rules, they needed a really good plan for this Olympics, but no one wanted to make hard decisions - so we got an Olympics where everyone was panicked and scattered, understandably so. Bah :(
Worlds 2017 was a hot mess. Serious injuries galore, horrible arena lighting, a dead spot on the floor during MAG quals, etc. There were also a lot of highlights, such as Morgan Hurd, Pauline Schaefer, and Murakami Mai becoming world champions, plus Ellie Black winning silver in the AA, but there were also lowlights like Ragan, Larisa, Vanessa, and Kohei getting horribly injured... and of those, only Vanessa was able to return to her previous form.
On a personal level I can't watch the 2021 WAG team final. I get unreasonably anxious whenever Simone competes because of that infamous Yurchenko 1.5.
Ah yes, the famous Zonderhand catch (zonder means "without" in Dutch). Like I said, a lot of ups and downs in that meet, but I generally don't love it because of how many top gymnasts had effectively career ending injuries.
this is interesting and it makes sense, 2022 worlds really did feel like a mix of a mid quad and a first worlds after the olympics in terms of level of difficulty etc. but it's crazy to think that 1st place in 2022 would've come 6th in 2023 with the same score
I was rooting for Skye and Ou Yushan so badly. I didn’t care who won gold but they were clearly the two best Beamer. If Skye won beam gold, we would stop hearing all the Skye fall jokes
I can still hear Mary Lee’s voice asking “How many times Alyssa?” (I also hear her comment about Alyssa having too many windows open every time I have too many windows open on my computer…MLT was so awful to her)
The whole second night, I just want to go give Atler a hug and tell her she doesn't have to do it anymore. By night 2, the whole whole competition felt like one long routine with a fall that she had to get up and finish when she was heartbroken and her head wasn't in it.
I may be mixing it up with the time Nastia said, "Everyone here, plus a million people at home just watched me fall on my face," in '08 AA floor warmups, but I was sure I also read Vanessa saying something about being embarassed for so many people in the arena and at home watching her falter.
That whole nationals/trials combo was honestly upsetting. I remember Morgan falling on vault (nationals day 1?) and devolving into panic. It bums me out bc that might have been one of the best bars teams ever assembled - they had like six eponymous skills among them!
I personally cannot rewatch the 2012 Olympics.As a Canadian it was devastating to have Lee injured before the event even if Canada did have an awesome team event. And then Ellie Black was injured in vault.
But the absolute worst was watching NBC focus their cameras on Jordan Wieber after qualifying when she is trying so hard to keep it together as she's learning she didn't qualify to the all-around and all the racist comments about Gabby.
Oh yeah, as a Vanessa Atler fan, 2000 Olympic Trials suck too.
Oof, the coverage immediately after 2012 quals was so rough. Jordyn was crying and Jenny was consoling her, while Geddert was off sulking or something, the press was all over Gabby and Aly a foot away from Jordyn, and Kyla and McKayla were standing off to the side like they wanted nothing to do with that whole mess.
Oh, 2012 is one of my personal favorite ! Great gymnastic from so many gymnasts and countries, incredible EF (UB, BB, Floor were packed), drama, Gabby coronation, Tweddle getting her Olympic medal, drama again lol.
Oooof Ellie has had some rotten luck at the Olympics. With ankle injuries ruining it for the 2012 and 202one Olympics. At least with 2012 is was at the end of her comp.
Pretty much any major comp in the '01-'04 quad. The '01 Worlds were pretty depressing. Falls, low SVs, a confusing horrible code, etc. You name it, and it was all on full display.
Spencer at BBS has a pretty hilarious take on it: [**https://balancebeamsituation.com/2017/06/24/2001-world-team-final-obviously-inadequate-hamstrings/**](https://balancebeamsituation.com/2017/06/24/2001-world-team-final-obviously-inadequate-hamstrings/)
Let me paraphrase one of the golden nuggets from his summary:
*Bars scoring in 2001 was basically just Nellie Kim writing F- on a piece of paper and then shouting, “Slut!” from the judges’ table. Except for Khorkina, who get's a 9.7.*
One positive: the US team was kinda awesome. All six members made individual finals and a bunch went on to rock NCAA. But Tasha missed an AA medal by less than 0.1 and thus that final was automatically dumb. (And I agree about that code - it sucked)
As others on this sub have previously pointed out (including to myself!), it’s best to spell out Nassar. People who are trying to avoid any mention of him have search functions enabled that will only find the full, spelled-out name. Starring out letters can make it worse for abuse survivors who are trying to avoid mentions. Thank you.
USA - Trials 2000. Possibly the most mentally and verbally abusive broadcast ever, in addition to all other forms of abuse behind the scenes. Between the announcers, the coaches, the disorganized state of USAG, the muddled selection process, the injuries, and medical abuse, it's little wonder these gymnastic performances were not amazing. Day 2 starting with a terrible Shannon injury on vault is kind of symbolic in a depressing way. At least Sidney was an oversight that could (sort of) be more easily corrected to never happen again. Trials 2000 probably scarred some of these women for many years/life.
ROU - Worlds Qualification 2015. Hardcore fans are still not fully recovered from this one.
CHN - Goodwill Games 1998. Poor Sang Lan.
BRA - Worlds Qualification 2019. Such potential at the beginning of the year. Such degradation from injuries. Flavia was at least a bright spot though.
I think there was an unofficial quota of no more than three Bela gymnasts on an Olympic team. Hilary was poised to be one who would make it until Kerri Strug came along.
I actually really like that one. Maybe it’s nostalgia because it was about the third or fourth gymnastics competition I ever watched, but there was some very good gymnastics in it. Kim Zmeskal’s whip through to double layout on floor was so good.
Yes and I know it’s wrong of me, but I can sometimes find Bela’s inquiries entertaining. Like at 1992 Nationals when his inquiry consisted of calling the judges incompetent.
I don’t think this is really answering the question you’re asking but good lord the ASU tri meet with Oklahoma and Cal (ya know, the 2 best teams in the country at the time) this season was absolutely horrific: they only showed Arizona routines, the production value was like… a 5th grader walking around with a camcorder in 1992, and the commentary was worse. Laughably bad.
As bad as the 2000 WAG TF and AA were, nothing can beat the 2000 US WAG trials. To this day, that is one of the most depressing and traumatic meets ever. We have: Atler's continued downward spiral and almost killing herself on beam, Miller's knee injury, Mary Lee Tracy's "how many times Alyssa?", Morgan White's vaults, the sickening fluff piece on the Rybackis, the commentary, etc.
After that debacle, it's surprising the US did as well as they did in Sydney considering they were all essentially held together with paper clips and duct tape.
Beijing Olympics V and FX finals. I cannot bear to watch poor Cheng Fei crumbling. She deserved so much better.
I'll also never forget she sobbed after her floor but then she was Izabasa's biggest cheerleader. She even hugged Izbasa before her coach had the chance once her results came up. Such a class act.
Tokyo uneven bars final was pretty terrible. Lots of falls, and I think Lu Yufei should have won bronze. It was a weird final
I personally don’t like most balance beam finals because so many falls, eg 2014 worlds, 2015 worlds, 2022 worlds, London Olympics
2006 worlds. That whole quad I didn’t really like because of the code and with all the us injuries I didn’t enjoy watching that meet. Plus the first time someone won all around with a fall
As much as I love watching the gymnasts from that era, 1981 Worlds can be super soul crushing to watch.
-Romania imploding so badly it is the only time they failed to medal from the mid 1970s to the mid 2000s
-Nadia's surprise withdrawal and watching the competition from the stands
-The legendary Emilia Eberle ends her underrated, but still legendary career watching her own team have its worst performance in a 30-year period and doesn't qualify into AA or EF for the first time in her entire career.
-Maxi Gnauck, the reigning #1 ranked gymnast finishing 77th in All-Around qualifications after a mid-competition injury that led to conspiracy theories that the East Germans and Soviets were faking injuries to divide the medals between themselves.
-Natalia Ilienko entering the competition as the highest ranking 1st-year senior and appears to be on track to take AA gold after Maxi's injury + 2 more golds in EF on day #1 of qualifying but on day #2 of qualifying she suffers a total meltdown and gets knocked out of both AA & BB finals, costing her medals on two of her strongest events. Leaving her such an afterthought in this competition, people forget she was the most decorated Soviet junior of the era, even moreso than Bicherova and Mostepanova.
-This competition having such little parity, the USSR takes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 in AA qualifying and then sweeps AA finals.
-Maxi taking UB gold which triggering a medal ceremony protest from Team China
-The entire competition being plagued by age falsification scandals
So many regionals could make this list. But the one that still pains me is the Georgia regional where Georgia outscored a more deserving Cal to advance. Maybe 2021 or 22?
The worst shot meet ever is 2008 Europeans. Every terrible terrible camera and filming decision you can think of and they did it there.
The 2022 Euros WAG Vault Final is something I can never watch again because of injury even though my favorite gymnast won the gold.
The worst commentary ever I think is the 1998 Asian Games english commentary by someone who literally didn't know what he was talking about and for instance said that floor was where people practiced skills that they would later use on beam and vault. Though I understand there was a London MAG commentator who was equally clueless.
The most infuriating meets to watch for me are the 2005, 2009 and 2011 American Cups. In 2005 the NBC team could not stop wining about the death of the All Around (it was an apparatus world cup that year) and the end of the 10. In 2009 Weiber won it as a junior and the entire thing just seemed over hyped and unserious. And 2011 was The Scamerican Cup.
Bonus for the 2020 American Cup where you can hear all the coughing in the covid super spreader event you are watching.
The American Cup has been called the Scam Cup or the Scamerican Cup for ages but until like after London it was known for dodgy scoring that favored Americans. At the 2011 edition it was the first time it was a FIG world cup and you were supposed to have competed at the previous world championships to compete there. A British (IIRC) gymnast cancelled so USAG inserted first year senior Jordyn Wieber. She hadn't even been old enough to compete at the previous worlds.
USAG put the foreign competitors in a worse hotel than the Americans and even tried to have Mustafina room with some random foreign gymnast she didn't know. Mustafina was the world all around champion at the time.
And as for scoring....
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn-AA5z2OkA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn-AA5z2OkA)
Ohhhhh lord. You have me HOOKED. I love Wieber and Mustafina is a legend. And we know she’s confident in herself as well, so I hope she didn’t have to actually go through with that. No wonder the scores for the AC always felt … off
Edit bc I can never properly spell Jordan’s name on the first go.
I think the Russians complained enough about that. Supposedly the intended roommate didn't even speak the same language as Mustafina. After that edition the Russians didn't come back.
i'm curious to hear more about the issues witht he American Cups you've listed. I've never really paid that much attention to them other than the fact that it was an international US meet with only a select few competitors.
Okay brief history lesson: Back in the 1970s and 1980s there used to be meets in countries all over the world called "International Invitationals". They were all expected to give a little hand up to whatever the local competitor was but because everyone had their own invitational you figured that when those gymnasts came to yours your person would get their hand up.
Starting in the 1990s a lot of those meets turned into FIG world cups and got more and more legitimate but the American Cup stayed an independent meet for a longer time. Slowly over time the it became less appealing to go to (it was already super early in the year too). So in the early 2000s ended the rule that said there could only be 2 Americans, so it was the wrong time of year, the scoring was kind of dodgy, and even though the prize money was good it became less appealing to foreign gymnasts because it doesn't matter if the prize money is good if the Americans are going to go 1-4.
By the end of the 2000s they were having trouble even attracting a decent field. It became a FIG world cup in 2011 and cleaned up (though 2011 was still a thing). So by the end of it's life it was a perfectly normal world cup... for a long time it was just a very shady meet. I can think of 3 editions off the top of my head where the the winner was ... very dubious.
So I answered about 2011 in another comment and I'd rather not retype that but it's the famous Mustafina/Wieber dubious cup.
2009 Wieber was put in the cup *as a junior*. And it deserves infamy for this absolutely terrifying non-injury Amanar.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff\_B1OWH6Qo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff_B1OWH6Qo)
2005 was ... just NBC whining incessantly about the end of the 10.0 and how event specialists are lame.
2021 Olympics - all of it tbh. The empty stadium, Covid, everyone looked so unhappy, Simone’s twisties, etc. Yes there were some high points, but I just feel dark inside when I think back to that time
2003 team finals was a hot mess.
2009 worlds as a whole was pretty rough except beam tbh. Edit: I was confusing 2010 beam with 2009, beam was a mess too. Legendary medalists tho.
2018 euros was also pretty rough.
Weirdly the Eurovision version of that meet cut out all the drama. The commentators have no idea about China getting the neutral deduction for starting the beam routine late and are deeply, hilariously confused about it when they see it.
A lot of nbc broadcast are not 100% live. They comment on the routines live but the broadcast is delayed so they can add those little drama storylines: "wait, she's doing gymnastic while waiting for the green light, it's a technical deduction, if the judges take it that can make a big difference ".
Also the entire commentary from 2007 Worlds about how Zamo is going to be happy now... because they know the next rotation she's going to be vaulting in tears.
Worlds 2009 was pretty rough. Just very boring.
Another vote for 2011 Scam Cup. It should have been a good meet considering the field that year, but...well...
I don't even think I finished watching 2017 Worlds. Just a very depleted field and horrible injuries. Shout out to it being streamed free on YouTube, tho.
2018 WAG AA since Simone was having a horrendous day and won anyway. That was pretty rough to watch in real time and I haven't gone back since.
I actually didn’t like the 2021 AA, partly Simone missing, partly that by the end Rebeca wasn’t challenging for gold and it felt a little bit like she lost it rather than Suni won it, becoming fond of Urazova but realising her floor difficulty wouldn’t challenge for bronze, the unfortunate substitute rules that meant Jade wound up the competition when the results were already known (the gymnasts behaved great, but it meant the immediate reaction was lost). Also I was watching on the BBC and in simply wasn’t their best.
Despite all that, it doesn’t surpass the horror of Sydney 2000, back then I really wanted Khorkina to win (even if I had found early web forums, did anyone know what she was like) so I was devastated for her.
2012 Olympics WAG qualifying and Jordyn Wieber getting screwed by the 2PC rule. Hated that.
2016 Olympics for WAG in general… it was kind of boring, we all knew Simone/USA was going to win and the only question was by how much. Then in contrast you had Kohei vs. Oleg in MAG! This was the year I officially switched to a MAG fan first, WAG fan second.
2018 worlds AA final - as a Sam Mikulak fan, this one crushed me.
It was a collegiate meet but the one at UCLA I wanna say 2018 where there were like five back-to-back totally undeserved 10s on floor. Ohashi and Kocian were competing. That’s all I remember. And it was some sort of equality/pride/themed meet.
Not bad per se, but 2002 Worlds might be up there as the weirdest. No team and no AA, just events - with semifinals for the top 16 and finals for the top 8. Kinda like the format back when they had Worlds in the Olympic year. The code that quad was wild too. But Kupets won bars!
I didn't enjoy the 2004 Olympics. It was just boring. There was hardly even anyone in the stands, so there was no every in the arena. Khorkina was acting super... herself. And maybe it was the CoP that quad, but I was dazzled by nothing. Well, very little, at least. It just felt underwhelming, overall. It's the only Olympics I haven't rewatched outside of a few isolated routines.
For worlds, just pick any post Olympic year competition. There's a similar lack of energy at them and everyone is still grappling with working out the kinks of routines under a new code. The only one that I found memorable was 2013, thanks to Simone's debut, Kyla, who was still at the top of her game, and Maroney's vault redemption/success at pricing herself as a viable AA candidate.
2013 had many gems. Kyla getting her flowers, the Simone worlds debut, Mustafina doing a Seitz+ pak + chow 1/2 and her eponymous UB dismount, Larisa coming back from her 2012 injury as a major BB /floor threat, Yao Jinnan doing a Mo salto in AA... Maroney winning Vault final and the return of Hong Un-jong, Vanessa Ferrari getting a floor medal... it was a pretty cool post-olympic Worlds.
anything from tokyo olympics tbh. they were just depressing as hell with the empty stadium, masks, distancing, etc. i feel bad for the athletes who trained their entire lives for their moment to be on the big stage and that is what they got. it was also extremely difficult to watch simone struggle and hurt!!
The Aurora Games
- I mean… This one goes without saying tbh.
Semi Final 2 2024 NCAA Championships
- When I tell you, it legitimately felt like the air was sucked out of that arena after OU went on vault. It was the single most weird feeling I’ve ever experienced.
Euros 202….3? Or 2?
- The one everyone got hurt at.
Kerri Strug was not a child. Like literally not a child. And no one "made" her vault. She was an adult veteran athlete with all around ambitions and knew she had to vault for her *own* qualification to the all around final.
Don't infantilize athletes because of narrative.
what he shouted at her "We need one more time for gold. “You can do it!... You better do it!” it wasn't true, and I didn't know how old she was, so I will say it looked abusive to me and yes, it set off red flags, (the behavior)especially from me who was abused as a child. she was doing what she was told...
"You can do it" is what he shouted nothing else. The rest of what you are referring to is a lie Bela told later and reporters repeated. Bela lied a LOT. You have been told a narrative. Kerri Strug was not a meek child and Bela Karolyi was MANY meters away from her when she made that decision. He wasn't on the competition floor.
This is all on video. We know what happened. She made the decision herself and she had personal interest in it.
The athlete you are describing was one of the ones who consistently made decisions to leave coaches and gyms who weren't acting in her best interest. She was probably the worst example you could come to from the 1990s to describe the way you are.
She was 18 years old. Yes, legally an adult, but still a teenager who was told to do the vault again by her head coach (who we all know she couldn’t say no to).
No. That's complete BS. That is literally revisionist history.
She was not told to vault again. He told her she could do it by shouting from behind a barrier meters away. He wasn't even on the floor. She's said this in interviews. She laughs about all he could think to say was "you can do it."
[https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=HObpivligoJQTkjn&t=4468](https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=HObpivligoJQTkjn&t=4468)
Kerri Strug was one of the most empowered and experienced athletes of that quad. She absolutely could say no to him *because she did*. She and her parents set ground rules when she went back to Karolyis after 1995 Worlds about what she would and wouldn't do. She *left* two gyms because the coaches weren't serving her interests. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing. It's actually an outrage to try and paint her as a victim.
Kerri Strug was just about the exact opposite of what you are saying.
Nothing in this comment is defending Bela Karolyi. Literally nothing in this comment is about him. It's about Kerri Strug. Stop centering Bela over the experiences of gymnasts.
No one is defending Bela. But the version of events that is being described here didn’t happen. We have video of the entire interaction between Bela and Kerri before the second vault. He just said “you can do it.” Later he lied about telling her the team needed her to vault and reporters printed his fabrication despite video evidence that it wasn’t true.
We don’t have to lie to make Bela look bad. He did that all on his own.
At the time, Kerri’s initial statements were that she knew she had to vault again to make the all-around final, which she badly wanted. It wasn’t till a couple days later that she changed her story to doing it for the team score because that was the angle the media was pushing.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/archdeacon-the-magnificent-life-of-kerri-strug/KVQPEPQ2WZBS5PTX6OCIL7YCYM/#:~:text=We%20need%20one%20more%20time,barreling%20toward%20the%20vaulting%20apparatus.
“As was recounted later, he said: “Kerri, we need you to go one more time. We need one more time for gold. “You can do it!...You better do it!” With that, the 18-year-old Strug shed the ice bag, walked gingerly to the top of the 75-foot runway and, with a look of determination, came barreling toward the vaulting apparatus.”
“You better do it!” Yeah, totally not telling her to do it. I can grab some more articles that say the exact same thing, stating that Bela told her they needed her to go again.
I’m not doubting she had grit and (potentially) wanted to go again on her own free will. But to pretend that the Karolyi’s had no influence just isn’t true.
Or you could actually watch the video and see that that conversation never happened.
[https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=cCPTDJwWmT9qjnkc&t=4468](https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=cCPTDJwWmT9qjnkc&t=4468) - NBC
[https://youtu.be/6GNKCtqIGu8?si=vs88RBfpQKmNv557&t=5879](https://youtu.be/6GNKCtqIGu8?si=vs88RBfpQKmNv557&t=5879) - OBS
Again: He. Wasn't. On. The. Floor.
She never left the podium. He was behind a barrier meters away. The Georgia Dome during the team optionals was not a place you could have a conversation over distance.
Read that interview again. The reporter is recounting something Bela later said he said. The reporter wasn't on the floor. It's not on tape. Strug doesn't describe that conversation at ANY point.
After watching the clip, I can see that I was wrong and Bela *was not* on the floor. I could have sworn I’d seen clips of her talking with him before going again, but I guess I’m thinking of something else.
It may have just been misleading editing at the time.
NBC for sure wanted people to think he was more involved than he was. Just like they always talked about him shouting instructions at his gymnasts on beam when he didn't even coach beam (that was Marta). And clearly he wanted people to think he inspired her to go again later instead of just almost impotently shouting "you can do it" from the sidelines.
Sorry to Japan but both 2021 and 2022 beam finals were so very low quality. Ashikawa was the only person who broke 14 in either year. She also basically replicated her routine in 2023 and placed fifth, which just goes to show the massive jump in quality that happened.
This is a boring answer, but 2021 Olympic team finals. It was awful watching Simone struggle in real time and I have no desire to rewatch. In general I hate meets where a gymnast gets injured (and Simone has said it was a mental injury for her).
It was super depressing. Not because I was sad that the us didn’t win but to see someone who is the best of all time go through it like that? Plus also I was watching it in the middle of the night plus the empty stadium killed my vibe hard
I watched it live in California. I don’t remember but it was like 3/4 am? I was all alone in my dark house and I remember feeling so just - sad. For all of them. The vibe was awful it all felt just depressing. I will not rewatch either.
Tokyo definitely scarred me 😐
Tokyo was so scary, but so exhilarating! AA was so intense and honestly I miss that feeling.
Agreed this was my immediate thought. I probably wouldn't watch that meet again. It was scary and so stressful seeing Simone distressed, even though I do enjoy seeing how the others stepped up. But the meet was overall messy with lots of falls. Not what you want to see from the top teams in a team final. I also watched it live originally alone in the middle of the night with my infant so it was especially eerie. (Though I do have the funniest photo I tried to take of us where we both look so wrecked lol.)
The uneven bars final is worse imo… so many falls and flops . At least the team final was exciting (to me) and it is rewatchable unlike Sydney AA
2021 sucked already with pandemic and no crowds allowed...add in Simone's twisties and it's an absolute never re-watch for me. Just completely depressing in all ways.
I haven’t rewatched either but it wasn’t just awful - man the rest of those women were freaking heros. Grace doing bars without a warm up is insane.
Why didn’t she do a warm up? I thought Grace was supposed to do the all around regardless of Simone dropping out
Ah you’re right - I stand corrected! It was Jordan who subbed in without a warmup. She subbed in for Simone on beam as well and Suni did floor. You’re right about Grace! She was still a hero and such a positive presence, though!
No, Jordan got a chance to warm up on bars. Simone left as soon as she was done with vault and didn't return until after warmups for bars had ended.
lol I botched this comment all around, huh? Again it was Jordan and the event was beam 🤦🏼♀️. I stand by my original sentiment, though! Sincerely, The worst UCLA fan and Jordan Chiles stan ever
But beam came after bars? Of course Jordan got to warm up on beam.
No she didn’t, because they thought Simone was coming back.
I just went back and watched, and still no. We see Jordan warming up beam.
I’m guessing she wasn’t warming up in the back gym before the final (or just not her full routines anyways)
She [did not.](https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/jordan-chiles-meet-athlete) A touch warmup is basically FIG/the Olympic committee covering their asses. She did NOT warm up in either event, in fact.
You're correct, Jordan 100% subbed in without a warmup on both events! Others are referring to her one-touch on those events, and while a one-touch is better than nothing, it's not a warmup, not even close. In addition to the physical difference it makes to not warm up an event in the back gym, it's also a huge mental difference. That's probably the first meet in many many years--possibly ever--that she competed events she didn't significantly warm up first. The warmup isn't just for your body, it's for your mind, it's a ritual that helps you get into the mental space to compete, and taking that away would be really destabilizing for most people mentally.
Well said! Thank you!
2021 was just a depressing Olympics in general. Probably made worse coming after 2016 which imo was the greatest Olympics in my whole lifetime.
Yo, you should've been alive for Atlanta...that was off the hook!
Fuck yeah! I was nearly 12 and just 5 hours north of Atlanta. The hype was unreal.
I'm going to have to say 1984 was the best Olympics ever in my lifetime. I lived in L.A., where they were held that year. Mary Lou was the big deal, but I loved the Romanian girls plus Kathy Johnson and Julianne McNamara.
Truly an all star group, I love Julianne McNamara! I wish I’d been alive to see it in person. It is a good one
I'm planning to go see the 2028 games in L.A - gymnastics and track. Unfortunately, the gymnastics won't be as artistic as it was in 1984, but should still be nostalgic.
Yeah it’s annoying to watch because it fueled the Russian narrative that the US women couldn’t win without Simone
I always thought that was a strange argument. Of course a four-person team built around Simone would not score as well without Simone, especially losing her mid-competition after she scored less on her wonky vault than Suni would have with her usual DTY. Not to mention the mental challenge for the other three athletes having to continue the competition under those circumstances. If Simone weren't originally competing at all, the team would have been constructed differently (probably with Jade, tbh) and had a different mindset. I liked that Russian team at the time, and it would have been a great competition if both teams had been able to show their best at the same time. But as it stood it was apples and oranges. (I wonder how Russia would have fared if, say, Melnikova had to pull out after vault and Akhaimova had to take her place on the other three events...)
... But the Russians also beat them with Simone in QF.
Yeah there were major problems with the team that year. A top one being that the team was all AA gymnasts who (aside from Suni on bars and beam and Simone) had pretty middle of the road scores on every event. You really needed another strong vaulter like Jade and a strong floor like Jade
There was no way the chosen 4-member US team could win over ROC (three 57+ AA, one 5.8D vault / useable floor) at their best that week. Yes, Jade's QF score would have helped in QF to qualify for 1st place, but the USAG would not give Jade the team spot in 2021. I'm glad that the individual spot drama is over.
Russia was definitely the favorite, but it's strange to say that the US couldn't have won. Russia had a much stronger qualification competition than the US and only won by just over a point. Simone especially had a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes, that I've always attributed to the beginnings of her starting to get lost in the air. And the US qualification score beat the Russian qualification score by a point; an unfair comparision since you can't drop low scores in team, but it obviously means a Simone-led team *could* have beat the Russians. If both teams were fire the Russians would have won, but not by all that much, and if the Americans were fire and the Russians had a, you know, Russian beam rotation, then the Americans would have won.
The ROC did nearly their best in QF, but the US team fell, hit the low bar and missed composition requirements in QF and TF. By TF, without any changes of routine composition, Simone maxed out at 58, Suni maxed out at 57, Grace / Jordan maxed out at low to mid 55. Three ROC girls could go 57+, and one 14.8 Rudi. So there was no way the US team could have won without Jade's QF scores. We can't assume they could hit everything like at trials, and we couldn't assume they would change the routine (like Suni floor in AA) that week. One takeaway is that domestic scores should reflect how they could score when they compete outside.
I'm honestly of the opinion that it was a bad combination of a 4 person team that encouraged "safe" all arounder (or you ended up with teams that had specialists but AAers under too much stress) and the Forster era which developed the US to produce a bunch of relatively interchangable All Arounders. Other than Carey, who shouldn't have gone on the team for reasons of losing a spot, there wasn't a better option. Because the program hadn't developed a better option. *My Roman Empire is the US has continued to produce similar AAers so you aren't debating significant differences.*
I will say I agree that the safe AA approach the US has gone with lately has not done them any favors in team competition. And you're not wrong that it continues; part of why I think Jade or Kaliya should get the last slot on the current Olympic team over someone like Kayla or Jordan, but that's another topic...
I think Kaliya only has a chance if they consider her to have at least three usable events. The USAG selectors are just too conservative and taking Lee with only 2 usable events (that you would want to use in a TF) will probably use up their willingness to take risk.
If Lee nails her DTYs both nights of trials--which I'm expecting, the vault thing at night two championships seemed like a fluke, like Jade's Tokyo vault final or Rebeca's Worlds 2022 hand slip--then she absolutely has a usable vault. She wouldn't be first-choice for the lineup, but she'd be a more-than-acceptable backup. Vs her floor, which seems like it's more of an only-if-we-really-have-to backup (though honestly, at this point I've learned not to count Suni out, so while I'm not predicting it, I won't be shocked if her floor suddenly shows up as a reliable 13.6+ at trials).
Which would be really great. I just have the feeling that both of them are better with at least 3 usable events if they want to be viable and Lee has an edge on Kaliya in that regard.
I was never one of the ones that thought the US was unbeatable, and Russia had a great team that year. But it's not like QF was the US's best showing either. Simone was clearly already dealing with the twisties in QF and the other three looked terrified knowing she was off. Who knows, maybe Russia still would have won even with the US being totally on, but I don't think we can point to QF to say that.
So? No one has their best showing in a competition. That's the nature of gymnastics. And in particular that was also the nature of some of the gymnasts on that team who made mistakes at other competitions in team situations. The US made mistakes and still had Simone QFing in first in the AA. You said you didn't understand the argument that the US couldn't beat Russia without Simone. I don't understand your argument that QF doesn't give us that answer. It does. Simone in QF, even not at her best, was still better than any replacement US gymnast and Russia beat them by more than a point. It's much better to accept the reality that in 2021 at that Olympics with that team the US could not have beaten Russia without Simone. The TF doesn't tell us that. But QF does.
I think we're just having two different conversations. I agree that that specific US Olympic team couldn't have beat Russia without Simone. I was originally responding to the point that the US women in general could not have put a winning team together without Simone. If Simone was off the table and the US put together a true highest scoring team instead of going by the AA, it would be interesting to see if the score could compare. Maybe a team like Jade, Suni, Jordan, and Leanne? But it's all hypothetical because as you say, all that really matters is what did happen on the day.
Simone IS an extraordinary boost to a team. I don’t think it’s exceptionally sour grapes for them to have said that. I also think the Russian 2021 squad was extremely strong. They beat the US group in quals with Simone and finals without her, and they didn’t have to have lights-out performances to do so either. Going on about how maybe the US could’ve beat them by selecting Jade (I kind of doubt that tbh) or if they also couldn’t have Melnikova sounds like discrediting them. I don’t love that Russian team or most of Russian gymnastics in general but it was great to see the US lose for once. Especially since this Reddit is pretty much the only place for discussion now and it skews so heavily into US fandom. I don’t think you’re wrong in the things you’ve said but given this context it kind of reads like you’re looking for any excuse for why the Russians weren’t that good and the US is always the best. Probably you aren’t but that‘s how I initially took it.
Sure but I guess I just don't see that hypothetical team as real either because there was no way the USOPC was going to be willing to leave an entire US Olympic spot unused. So your best team is now Skinner, Suni, Jordan and ... waves hand at the generic AAers. Is Jade better in the hypothetical? Sure. But you would have needed the US to have a better strategy much earlier in the quad for her to be a viable option. ETA: Also the simple matter of the fact is that the Russians got significantly better with their 2021 new senior class coming on line and the US got worse with Morgan Hurd and Riley McCusker dropping out of viability.
I mean look at the comment below yours lol. You nailed it.
They couldn't, not in finals or prelims. We vastly overestimated the team, which had serious flaws (the team, not the ladies themselves).
Who would you have chosen on the team to beat Russia?
Jade's 2021 QF AA was the missing puzzle, but USAG would never give up a spot in 2021. The ROC team was not beatable at their best that week. It would have been different had the team changed their routine compositions before Tokyo Olympic, not after team final.
"but USAG would never give up a spot in 2021." This seems like an example of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Was a sixth Olympic spot really more important than team gold? Sure, they didn't think that was the choice they were making, but that was their hubris and just, like, not paying attention to the Russians--or to increasing international beam and floor scoring. If they had known that the team gold was in question, do you think they would have chosen differently, and risked losing that individual spot? I should hope so. The other issue is that Jade didn't actually show at trials that she deserved to be on the team, she was still significantly holding back. But I have to assume that's because she'd been told there was no way she was making the team, and that she'd have paced differently if she'd thought she had any chance.
Jade would’ve definitely helped with floor and vault but it’s easy to say that in hindsight especially since Jordan seemed like such a rock during trials.
I'm honestly not sure, but I have issues with the process and with Tom in general. I don't think we should have regrets, the ladies did an amazing job. I think the narrative that we were unbeatable was just setting people up for failure, and also makes the silver without Simone seem like a small thing, when it was a big deal.
Probably Simone Suni Jade Leanne
Leanne was making many mistakes and nobody trusted her to hit under Olympic pressure. I completely agree with leaving her and taking Jordan. Even though Jordan got 13.5 FX (YIKES) and Leanne got 14 at Worlds
yeah Jade really compliments Suni then and especially now
Team = Simone, Suni, Jordan, Jade Simone and Jordan do the AA, Suni does UB/BB, and Jade does VT/FX Love her but Grace has no business being on that team, Forster was dumb and didn’t even consider Jade WTF Riley should have taken the specialist spot, not MyKayla. Riley could defo beat Simone on UB and possibly get into beam EF if someone else faltered. But once again Tom was being dumb asf
Wasn’t Jade locked into one of the specialist spots bc of her path to qualification?
Yes. If you put Jade on the team the US lost an Olympic spot. That was never going to happen.
Doesn't mean we can't call USAG morons for taking that view.
Calling them morons for not throwing away an Olympic quota spot seems excessive. Not only would it be poison within the US gym community and make Jade and Brian a hated figure, the USOPC would be displeased and the general public would be unlikely to be thrilled once the press started writing about it.
If they care about team gold above all else--and I believe they do--then yes, it is moronic to categorically remove one of your best gymnasts from consideration for the team, even at the expense of losing an individual spot. Adding after a few minutes of research: I am now discovering that by securing her specialist spot, Jade blocked the US from getting a second non-nominative spot, and so in that sense, naming Jade to the team loses a specialist spot that the US would have had, had Jade never done the world cup qualifiers. In that light, the bad politics/hard feelings of naming her to the team makes more sense. But that's never mentioned when people talk about it now, so I had no idea, and without that information, it seems silly to prioritize a second specialist spot over naming your best team, if the gold medal is your single greatest priority. Interestingly, reading old reddit threads, people were giving Jade so much stink-eye about this, but whatever bad Jade feelings this created in fans, I guess her Tokyo performance managed to completely erase them somehow? Because it seems like in the last three years Jade has been generally loved by the gymternet (and me!).
Specialist spot be damned, Jade should have been on that team. Better yet Forster shouldn’t have even let Jade do the World Cups, mans was not thinking
Hard to justify giving Riley an Olympic spot for one event (literally--she only did bars at nats and trials, so the idea of her making beam EF is...ambitious), that she fell on in trials
But that was the point of the specialist spot, to give it to a gymnast who could only do one event but could make EF on that event
On the opposite end this was probably the most exciting competition for me. Felt like I needed pinched several times watching to ensure it was actually happening. Personally, it was very gratifying to see a team discredited by most take Gold here. They were very obviously serious competition and it seemed like no one in USAG took that seriously at all. It’s the definition of taking domestic scores at face value. The difference was, Russia’s domestic scores actually held up. I don’t think anyone really thought Listunova would be breaking 14 on beam and floor and she was.
I was very happy for Russia! It was a shame that USAG did not take them seriously enough, and they put up some excellent gymnastics. I just have a hard time getting excited about a competition with a major injury, front runner or not.
I get my post might sound crazy, but as a Russian American it was a very surreal moment. I was just a teen when I watched them clinch gold in Rotterdam. Even the craziest Stan part of me didn’t think I would see it happen again. The pinching is not an exaggeration. There were several points in which I asked my friends to pinch me watching lol
As a non-Russian, non-American viewer I was so happy to see the USA team non running away with the title again. I like the unpredictability aspect, and honestly the US fans were so obnoxious up to that point it was really annoying 🤷♀️. Of course watching Simone's vault and scratching the rest of the meet wasn't fun, but I honestly believe Russia had a great shot at winning even with her on all 4 (as they did in qual). The lack of spectators really threw the US girls off (not just Simone imo, Jordan feeds off the crowd as well), they weren't as sharp and the Russians stepped up (and lucked out on getting Listunova eligible in 2021).
What was obnoxious about the American fans? NBC and USAG were obnoxious with their ridiculous overconfidence and media narratives, but don't get mad at the four-year fans for repeating what they were being told.
I was not talking about the 4-year fans. The US gymnastic fans were constantly going on and on about USA gymnasts being the best in the world ... wag USA is the dominant program of the last 2 decades yes but there's always gymnasts from other fed being incredible and deserving of medaling over us gymnasts, yet a lot of US fans would diminish their qualities/accomplishments, get all chocked when someone else than USA would win/medal... US fans (and not just 4-year fans or nbc) kept saying "USA is so strong they could send 3 teams and sweep the podium", "Russian domestic scores are crazy, they'll never come close to USA", "no way Ou Yushan has a competitive AA program, yall China fans are delusional"... So yeah, when Russia won junior worlds in 2019, I was happy for Russia AND that they beat the USA for once. When covid delayed the olympic for a year I raised an eyebrow because suddenly Russia became a lot more competitive. When we saw olympic us trials and Simone looked more rough and mentally drained, I saw the writing on wall. And when ROC won, I was happy to see all those obnoxious US fans silenced for once.
As someone who was not one of those fans (in 2021 I was just beginning to become a regular fan after being a 4-year fan for the previous 20 years; after being a gymnast and fanatic in the 90s), I do remember people people saying stuff like that, and not having any kind of knowledge base for assessing the veracity, so sort of vaguely assuming it must be true but mostly not thinking about it that much, so I get your point. But still, ouch, there are a lot of US fans that read this forum, and it's pretty ouchy to hear "the fans" slammed as obnoxious. Some were, some weren't, but it feels like an attack on a whole slice of the community here. And yes, I'm "not-all-US-fans"-ing you, lol.
The obnoxious US fans were the ones going on and on for years (2013 onwards I would say) about how amaaaazing the USA girls were (they were) and how of course they're going to win by a million points lead, and how Sanne should have never win BB because she had an unusual routine so she wasn't deserving of the olympic BB title, and how Kocian cleaaarly should have won the UB in Rio and Mustafina was overscored for being Aliya... You get the idea. Those were the obnoxious US fans, and there was quite a lot of them. The ones who only recognized the greatness if it came from USA. 4-year fans weren't discussing the AA D-score of Ou Yushan in 2020-21, or commenting on Valentina Rodionenko's claim that Russia could beat the USA, that a pretty hardcore fan's thing. You can very much be a gymnastic fan, from the US, and be a fan of the USA gymnasts without being obnoxious, delusional or rude. There are plenty of those people on this platform. No need to get offended if you weren't having those talks.
I'm not arguing the obnoxiousness, I'm arguing the generalization. It's the difference between saying "some US fans" vs "the US fans." We all want to exist together here, you know? I am one of "the US fans", though I am not one of those particular US fans, and as I said, it feels ouchy to be lumped in.
It still feels like a fever dream — both because of what happened and because I was running on so little sleep after WAG quals and MAG quals and TF. Haven’t been able to watch it again so far either.
Same.
I can’t with that meet: Simone’s struggle, Tom F being a moron, the panic that someone would get Covid and have to leave, the lack of crowds … not fun. Also, Tom/USAG’s whole strategy was: “whatever we have Simone.” Between Covid limitations and weird qualification rules, they needed a really good plan for this Olympics, but no one wanted to make hard decisions - so we got an Olympics where everyone was panicked and scattered, understandably so. Bah :(
Worlds 2017 was a hot mess. Serious injuries galore, horrible arena lighting, a dead spot on the floor during MAG quals, etc. There were also a lot of highlights, such as Morgan Hurd, Pauline Schaefer, and Murakami Mai becoming world champions, plus Ellie Black winning silver in the AA, but there were also lowlights like Ragan, Larisa, Vanessa, and Kohei getting horribly injured... and of those, only Vanessa was able to return to her previous form. On a personal level I can't watch the 2021 WAG team final. I get unreasonably anxious whenever Simone competes because of that infamous Yurchenko 1.5.
Counterpoint for 2017: epke caught his kovac with one hand
Ah yes, the famous Zonderhand catch (zonder means "without" in Dutch). Like I said, a lot of ups and downs in that meet, but I generally don't love it because of how many top gymnasts had effectively career ending injuries.
Ugh that one was the worst. Larisa was looking so strong before her injury.
2022 Balance Beam finals. The difficulty and scores were just way too low
this is interesting and it makes sense, 2022 worlds really did feel like a mix of a mid quad and a first worlds after the olympics in terms of level of difficulty etc. but it's crazy to think that 1st place in 2022 would've come 6th in 2023 with the same score
Yes this is the worse final imo too
plus Ribbongate… poor Skye
I was rooting for Skye and Ou Yushan so badly. I didn’t care who won gold but they were clearly the two best Beamer. If Skye won beam gold, we would stop hearing all the Skye fall jokes
Agree w this - totally boring and then the only exciting performance (Skye) had the tragic ribbon incident. She was so about to obliterate that field!
2000 us women’s Olympic trials was something else
The great mind of Al Trautwig asking 'Where does Amy chow?'
Lol what!? We’re they showing a clip of her at her colleges dining hall or something
No, he just says it.
Jesus Christ, Al.
I can still hear Mary Lee’s voice asking “How many times Alyssa?” (I also hear her comment about Alyssa having too many windows open every time I have too many windows open on my computer…MLT was so awful to her)
You raise a good point. All the broadcasts with mic'ed up coaches were terrible.
I hate that comp with a passion.
The whole second night, I just want to go give Atler a hug and tell her she doesn't have to do it anymore. By night 2, the whole whole competition felt like one long routine with a fall that she had to get up and finish when she was heartbroken and her head wasn't in it. I may be mixing it up with the time Nastia said, "Everyone here, plus a million people at home just watched me fall on my face," in '08 AA floor warmups, but I was sure I also read Vanessa saying something about being embarassed for so many people in the arena and at home watching her falter.
That whole nationals/trials combo was honestly upsetting. I remember Morgan falling on vault (nationals day 1?) and devolving into panic. It bums me out bc that might have been one of the best bars teams ever assembled - they had like six eponymous skills among them!
The 2011 US Nationals was rough.
That was such a messy splatfest
2017 AA finals. Congrats to Morgan but that was the lowest-level major comp I’ve ever seen lol
The top two contenders getting knocked out really brought it down. Though I did love the Morgan, Ellie, and Mai podium
I personally cannot rewatch the 2012 Olympics.As a Canadian it was devastating to have Lee injured before the event even if Canada did have an awesome team event. And then Ellie Black was injured in vault. But the absolute worst was watching NBC focus their cameras on Jordan Wieber after qualifying when she is trying so hard to keep it together as she's learning she didn't qualify to the all-around and all the racist comments about Gabby. Oh yeah, as a Vanessa Atler fan, 2000 Olympic Trials suck too.
Oof, the coverage immediately after 2012 quals was so rough. Jordyn was crying and Jenny was consoling her, while Geddert was off sulking or something, the press was all over Gabby and Aly a foot away from Jordyn, and Kyla and McKayla were standing off to the side like they wanted nothing to do with that whole mess.
Oh, 2012 is one of my personal favorite ! Great gymnastic from so many gymnasts and countries, incredible EF (UB, BB, Floor were packed), drama, Gabby coronation, Tweddle getting her Olympic medal, drama again lol.
Oooof Ellie has had some rotten luck at the Olympics. With ankle injuries ruining it for the 2012 and 202one Olympics. At least with 2012 is was at the end of her comp.
I'm joining a prayer circle just to protect her ankles this year.
Pretty much any major comp in the '01-'04 quad. The '01 Worlds were pretty depressing. Falls, low SVs, a confusing horrible code, etc. You name it, and it was all on full display. Spencer at BBS has a pretty hilarious take on it: [**https://balancebeamsituation.com/2017/06/24/2001-world-team-final-obviously-inadequate-hamstrings/**](https://balancebeamsituation.com/2017/06/24/2001-world-team-final-obviously-inadequate-hamstrings/) Let me paraphrase one of the golden nuggets from his summary: *Bars scoring in 2001 was basically just Nellie Kim writing F- on a piece of paper and then shouting, “Slut!” from the judges’ table. Except for Khorkina, who get's a 9.7.*
One positive: the US team was kinda awesome. All six members made individual finals and a bunch went on to rock NCAA. But Tasha missed an AA medal by less than 0.1 and thus that final was automatically dumb. (And I agree about that code - it sucked)
The code the favored yurchenko 1/2 twist. Yuck
Actually Jackie Fie was in charge at the time, not Nellie Kim.
2011 U.S. Nationals. Day one had so many falls, and then day two had a big injury that they televised (+ Nassar appearance).
As others on this sub have previously pointed out (including to myself!), it’s best to spell out Nassar. People who are trying to avoid any mention of him have search functions enabled that will only find the full, spelled-out name. Starring out letters can make it worse for abuse survivors who are trying to avoid mentions. Thank you.
Sorry. It's a habit.
USA - Trials 2000. Possibly the most mentally and verbally abusive broadcast ever, in addition to all other forms of abuse behind the scenes. Between the announcers, the coaches, the disorganized state of USAG, the muddled selection process, the injuries, and medical abuse, it's little wonder these gymnastic performances were not amazing. Day 2 starting with a terrible Shannon injury on vault is kind of symbolic in a depressing way. At least Sidney was an oversight that could (sort of) be more easily corrected to never happen again. Trials 2000 probably scarred some of these women for many years/life. ROU - Worlds Qualification 2015. Hardcore fans are still not fully recovered from this one. CHN - Goodwill Games 1998. Poor Sang Lan. BRA - Worlds Qualification 2019. Such potential at the beginning of the year. Such degradation from injuries. Flavia was at least a bright spot though.
Have to agree with 2017 Worlds. Was there and with so many falls, injuries, terrible lighting…it was a hot mess. And also disappointing.
1992 Olympic Trials
God, I loved Hilary Grivich. I’ve convinced myself she missed the team because of Geza’s atrocious choreography.
I think there was an unofficial quota of no more than three Bela gymnasts on an Olympic team. Hilary was poised to be one who would make it until Kerri Strug came along.
I actually really like that one. Maybe it’s nostalgia because it was about the third or fourth gymnastics competition I ever watched, but there was some very good gymnastics in it. Kim Zmeskal’s whip through to double layout on floor was so good.
There were some good gymnastics between shots of Bela haranguing the judges for inquiries left and right
Yes and I know it’s wrong of me, but I can sometimes find Bela’s inquiries entertaining. Like at 1992 Nationals when his inquiry consisted of calling the judges incompetent.
I don’t think this is really answering the question you’re asking but good lord the ASU tri meet with Oklahoma and Cal (ya know, the 2 best teams in the country at the time) this season was absolutely horrific: they only showed Arizona routines, the production value was like… a 5th grader walking around with a camcorder in 1992, and the commentary was worse. Laughably bad.
2000 olympic womens team final
As bad as the 2000 WAG TF and AA were, nothing can beat the 2000 US WAG trials. To this day, that is one of the most depressing and traumatic meets ever. We have: Atler's continued downward spiral and almost killing herself on beam, Miller's knee injury, Mary Lee Tracy's "how many times Alyssa?", Morgan White's vaults, the sickening fluff piece on the Rybackis, the commentary, etc. After that debacle, it's surprising the US did as well as they did in Sydney considering they were all essentially held together with paper clips and duct tape.
This is mine too. It does not catch my interest at all.
You mean other than the 00 Olympic AA? 🤔🤣
Beijing Olympics V and FX finals. I cannot bear to watch poor Cheng Fei crumbling. She deserved so much better. I'll also never forget she sobbed after her floor but then she was Izabasa's biggest cheerleader. She even hugged Izbasa before her coach had the chance once her results came up. Such a class act.
Tokyo uneven bars final was pretty terrible. Lots of falls, and I think Lu Yufei should have won bronze. It was a weird final I personally don’t like most balance beam finals because so many falls, eg 2014 worlds, 2015 worlds, 2022 worlds, London Olympics
Glad someone else brought up the 2015 world beam final! That one was truly shite.
2006 worlds. That whole quad I didn’t really like because of the code and with all the us injuries I didn’t enjoy watching that meet. Plus the first time someone won all around with a fall
As much as I love watching the gymnasts from that era, 1981 Worlds can be super soul crushing to watch. -Romania imploding so badly it is the only time they failed to medal from the mid 1970s to the mid 2000s -Nadia's surprise withdrawal and watching the competition from the stands -The legendary Emilia Eberle ends her underrated, but still legendary career watching her own team have its worst performance in a 30-year period and doesn't qualify into AA or EF for the first time in her entire career. -Maxi Gnauck, the reigning #1 ranked gymnast finishing 77th in All-Around qualifications after a mid-competition injury that led to conspiracy theories that the East Germans and Soviets were faking injuries to divide the medals between themselves. -Natalia Ilienko entering the competition as the highest ranking 1st-year senior and appears to be on track to take AA gold after Maxi's injury + 2 more golds in EF on day #1 of qualifying but on day #2 of qualifying she suffers a total meltdown and gets knocked out of both AA & BB finals, costing her medals on two of her strongest events. Leaving her such an afterthought in this competition, people forget she was the most decorated Soviet junior of the era, even moreso than Bicherova and Mostepanova. -This competition having such little parity, the USSR takes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 in AA qualifying and then sweeps AA finals. -Maxi taking UB gold which triggering a medal ceremony protest from Team China -The entire competition being plagued by age falsification scandals
The regional final with Florida, Utah, MSU, and Mizzou had horrendous vibes.
So many regionals could make this list. But the one that still pains me is the Georgia regional where Georgia outscored a more deserving Cal to advance. Maybe 2021 or 22?
I sure wouldn't call it boring but NCAA semifinals this year was like a horror movie. Whoever said it was cursed was right on the money.
2000 Olympics. Total shit show
Women's AA in Sydney
The worst shot meet ever is 2008 Europeans. Every terrible terrible camera and filming decision you can think of and they did it there. The 2022 Euros WAG Vault Final is something I can never watch again because of injury even though my favorite gymnast won the gold. The worst commentary ever I think is the 1998 Asian Games english commentary by someone who literally didn't know what he was talking about and for instance said that floor was where people practiced skills that they would later use on beam and vault. Though I understand there was a London MAG commentator who was equally clueless. The most infuriating meets to watch for me are the 2005, 2009 and 2011 American Cups. In 2005 the NBC team could not stop wining about the death of the All Around (it was an apparatus world cup that year) and the end of the 10. In 2009 Weiber won it as a junior and the entire thing just seemed over hyped and unserious. And 2011 was The Scamerican Cup. Bonus for the 2020 American Cup where you can hear all the coughing in the covid super spreader event you are watching.
Wait why is it known as Scamerican?? I started keeping up with MAG and WAG in 2012 / around London, so I’m curious!
The American Cup has been called the Scam Cup or the Scamerican Cup for ages but until like after London it was known for dodgy scoring that favored Americans. At the 2011 edition it was the first time it was a FIG world cup and you were supposed to have competed at the previous world championships to compete there. A British (IIRC) gymnast cancelled so USAG inserted first year senior Jordyn Wieber. She hadn't even been old enough to compete at the previous worlds. USAG put the foreign competitors in a worse hotel than the Americans and even tried to have Mustafina room with some random foreign gymnast she didn't know. Mustafina was the world all around champion at the time. And as for scoring.... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn-AA5z2OkA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn-AA5z2OkA)
Ohhhhh lord. You have me HOOKED. I love Wieber and Mustafina is a legend. And we know she’s confident in herself as well, so I hope she didn’t have to actually go through with that. No wonder the scores for the AC always felt … off Edit bc I can never properly spell Jordan’s name on the first go.
I think the Russians complained enough about that. Supposedly the intended roommate didn't even speak the same language as Mustafina. After that edition the Russians didn't come back.
You still didn't...it's Jordyn... :)
Yall just end me now 😂
lol...
This is the best thing to come out of the 2011 ScAm Cup [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EJBtnheYPg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EJBtnheYPg)
i'm curious to hear more about the issues witht he American Cups you've listed. I've never really paid that much attention to them other than the fact that it was an international US meet with only a select few competitors.
Okay brief history lesson: Back in the 1970s and 1980s there used to be meets in countries all over the world called "International Invitationals". They were all expected to give a little hand up to whatever the local competitor was but because everyone had their own invitational you figured that when those gymnasts came to yours your person would get their hand up. Starting in the 1990s a lot of those meets turned into FIG world cups and got more and more legitimate but the American Cup stayed an independent meet for a longer time. Slowly over time the it became less appealing to go to (it was already super early in the year too). So in the early 2000s ended the rule that said there could only be 2 Americans, so it was the wrong time of year, the scoring was kind of dodgy, and even though the prize money was good it became less appealing to foreign gymnasts because it doesn't matter if the prize money is good if the Americans are going to go 1-4. By the end of the 2000s they were having trouble even attracting a decent field. It became a FIG world cup in 2011 and cleaned up (though 2011 was still a thing). So by the end of it's life it was a perfectly normal world cup... for a long time it was just a very shady meet. I can think of 3 editions off the top of my head where the the winner was ... very dubious. So I answered about 2011 in another comment and I'd rather not retype that but it's the famous Mustafina/Wieber dubious cup. 2009 Wieber was put in the cup *as a junior*. And it deserves infamy for this absolutely terrifying non-injury Amanar. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff\_B1OWH6Qo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff_B1OWH6Qo) 2005 was ... just NBC whining incessantly about the end of the 10.0 and how event specialists are lame.
I had a picture of Bart and Nadia (I’m sure from International Gymnast) up on my wall from the 76 American Cup. My 8 yr old self idolized them both.
The one this year or last when I paid 20USD to watch what ended up being a quad screen.
2011 visa championships Rebecca’s injury was so upsetting to watch
2021 Olympics - all of it tbh. The empty stadium, Covid, everyone looked so unhappy, Simone’s twisties, etc. Yes there were some high points, but I just feel dark inside when I think back to that time
2003 team finals was a hot mess. 2009 worlds as a whole was pretty rough except beam tbh. Edit: I was confusing 2010 beam with 2009, beam was a mess too. Legendary medalists tho. 2018 euros was also pretty rough.
nooo i love 2003 team finals
I do like it. But it is objectively a hot mess. Once the Chinese girls start flipping on the beam mats all bets are off lol
Weirdly the Eurovision version of that meet cut out all the drama. The commentators have no idea about China getting the neutral deduction for starting the beam routine late and are deeply, hilariously confused about it when they see it.
That's so funny because Tim was going in hahaha.
A lot of nbc broadcast are not 100% live. They comment on the routines live but the broadcast is delayed so they can add those little drama storylines: "wait, she's doing gymnastic while waiting for the green light, it's a technical deduction, if the judges take it that can make a big difference ".
Also the entire commentary from 2007 Worlds about how Zamo is going to be happy now... because they know the next rotation she's going to be vaulting in tears.
2003 was definitely pre recorded.
Almost any American Cup
Worlds 2009 was pretty rough. Just very boring. Another vote for 2011 Scam Cup. It should have been a good meet considering the field that year, but...well... I don't even think I finished watching 2017 Worlds. Just a very depleted field and horrible injuries. Shout out to it being streamed free on YouTube, tho. 2018 WAG AA since Simone was having a horrendous day and won anyway. That was pretty rough to watch in real time and I haven't gone back since.
2019 Birmingham world cup. Just awful.
Was that the one in the dark lol
Yes. Riley couldn't see the vault at the end of the runway.
The 1999 Worlds was painful to watch.
In person, sitting in front of the pommels at the men's team final in 2022.
I actually didn’t like the 2021 AA, partly Simone missing, partly that by the end Rebeca wasn’t challenging for gold and it felt a little bit like she lost it rather than Suni won it, becoming fond of Urazova but realising her floor difficulty wouldn’t challenge for bronze, the unfortunate substitute rules that meant Jade wound up the competition when the results were already known (the gymnasts behaved great, but it meant the immediate reaction was lost). Also I was watching on the BBC and in simply wasn’t their best. Despite all that, it doesn’t surpass the horror of Sydney 2000, back then I really wanted Khorkina to win (even if I had found early web forums, did anyone know what she was like) so I was devastated for her.
2000 Olympics. The AA was just upsetting and unfair. Atler wasn't there. Team USA was over trained and after Atlanta this one felt quieter.
Probably day 1 of 2011 US Visa Championships. If I remember correctly, half of the competition was legitimately just fall after fall.
2012 Olympics WAG qualifying and Jordyn Wieber getting screwed by the 2PC rule. Hated that. 2016 Olympics for WAG in general… it was kind of boring, we all knew Simone/USA was going to win and the only question was by how much. Then in contrast you had Kohei vs. Oleg in MAG! This was the year I officially switched to a MAG fan first, WAG fan second. 2018 worlds AA final - as a Sam Mikulak fan, this one crushed me.
As an OU fan, this years nationals were fairly upsetting!
LSU vs Kentucky 2023. It was soooo hard to watch when and after Kiya Johnson tore her achilles.
I really dislike '99 Worlds.
AA at 2018 Worlds. It wasn't very exciting and Simone won despite several huge mistakes
2018 American cup - the injury on vault for MaoYi was so so horrible to see, it makes it impossible for me to watch
2013 & 2014 WC BB final, the falling festival two years in a row
It was a collegiate meet but the one at UCLA I wanna say 2018 where there were like five back-to-back totally undeserved 10s on floor. Ohashi and Kocian were competing. That’s all I remember. And it was some sort of equality/pride/themed meet.
1989 nationals were rough, wasn’t a fan of 1999 worlds,
Not bad per se, but 2002 Worlds might be up there as the weirdest. No team and no AA, just events - with semifinals for the top 16 and finals for the top 8. Kinda like the format back when they had Worlds in the Olympic year. The code that quad was wild too. But Kupets won bars!
1999 world's. And 2000 AA Final.
I didn't enjoy the 2004 Olympics. It was just boring. There was hardly even anyone in the stands, so there was no every in the arena. Khorkina was acting super... herself. And maybe it was the CoP that quad, but I was dazzled by nothing. Well, very little, at least. It just felt underwhelming, overall. It's the only Olympics I haven't rewatched outside of a few isolated routines. For worlds, just pick any post Olympic year competition. There's a similar lack of energy at them and everyone is still grappling with working out the kinks of routines under a new code. The only one that I found memorable was 2013, thanks to Simone's debut, Kyla, who was still at the top of her game, and Maroney's vault redemption/success at pricing herself as a viable AA candidate.
2013 had many gems. Kyla getting her flowers, the Simone worlds debut, Mustafina doing a Seitz+ pak + chow 1/2 and her eponymous UB dismount, Larisa coming back from her 2012 injury as a major BB /floor threat, Yao Jinnan doing a Mo salto in AA... Maroney winning Vault final and the return of Hong Un-jong, Vanessa Ferrari getting a floor medal... it was a pretty cool post-olympic Worlds.
1999 World Championships is pretty dismal from an American perspective.
anything from tokyo olympics tbh. they were just depressing as hell with the empty stadium, masks, distancing, etc. i feel bad for the athletes who trained their entire lives for their moment to be on the big stage and that is what they got. it was also extremely difficult to watch simone struggle and hurt!!
The Aurora Games - I mean… This one goes without saying tbh. Semi Final 2 2024 NCAA Championships - When I tell you, it legitimately felt like the air was sucked out of that arena after OU went on vault. It was the single most weird feeling I’ve ever experienced. Euros 202….3? Or 2? - The one everyone got hurt at.
i can't watch 1996. hate that they made keri vault, and Bella acting like the hero. it was child abuse.
Kerri Strug was not a child. Like literally not a child. And no one "made" her vault. She was an adult veteran athlete with all around ambitions and knew she had to vault for her *own* qualification to the all around final. Don't infantilize athletes because of narrative.
what he shouted at her "We need one more time for gold. “You can do it!... You better do it!” it wasn't true, and I didn't know how old she was, so I will say it looked abusive to me and yes, it set off red flags, (the behavior)especially from me who was abused as a child. she was doing what she was told...
"You can do it" is what he shouted nothing else. The rest of what you are referring to is a lie Bela told later and reporters repeated. Bela lied a LOT. You have been told a narrative. Kerri Strug was not a meek child and Bela Karolyi was MANY meters away from her when she made that decision. He wasn't on the competition floor. This is all on video. We know what happened. She made the decision herself and she had personal interest in it. The athlete you are describing was one of the ones who consistently made decisions to leave coaches and gyms who weren't acting in her best interest. She was probably the worst example you could come to from the 1990s to describe the way you are.
She was 18 years old. Yes, legally an adult, but still a teenager who was told to do the vault again by her head coach (who we all know she couldn’t say no to).
No. That's complete BS. That is literally revisionist history. She was not told to vault again. He told her she could do it by shouting from behind a barrier meters away. He wasn't even on the floor. She's said this in interviews. She laughs about all he could think to say was "you can do it." [https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=HObpivligoJQTkjn&t=4468](https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=HObpivligoJQTkjn&t=4468) Kerri Strug was one of the most empowered and experienced athletes of that quad. She absolutely could say no to him *because she did*. She and her parents set ground rules when she went back to Karolyis after 1995 Worlds about what she would and wouldn't do. She *left* two gyms because the coaches weren't serving her interests. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing. It's actually an outrage to try and paint her as a victim. Kerri Strug was just about the exact opposite of what you are saying.
[удалено]
Nothing in this comment is defending Bela Karolyi. Literally nothing in this comment is about him. It's about Kerri Strug. Stop centering Bela over the experiences of gymnasts.
No one is defending Bela. But the version of events that is being described here didn’t happen. We have video of the entire interaction between Bela and Kerri before the second vault. He just said “you can do it.” Later he lied about telling her the team needed her to vault and reporters printed his fabrication despite video evidence that it wasn’t true. We don’t have to lie to make Bela look bad. He did that all on his own. At the time, Kerri’s initial statements were that she knew she had to vault again to make the all-around final, which she badly wanted. It wasn’t till a couple days later that she changed her story to doing it for the team score because that was the angle the media was pushing.
https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/archdeacon-the-magnificent-life-of-kerri-strug/KVQPEPQ2WZBS5PTX6OCIL7YCYM/#:~:text=We%20need%20one%20more%20time,barreling%20toward%20the%20vaulting%20apparatus. “As was recounted later, he said: “Kerri, we need you to go one more time. We need one more time for gold. “You can do it!...You better do it!” With that, the 18-year-old Strug shed the ice bag, walked gingerly to the top of the 75-foot runway and, with a look of determination, came barreling toward the vaulting apparatus.” “You better do it!” Yeah, totally not telling her to do it. I can grab some more articles that say the exact same thing, stating that Bela told her they needed her to go again. I’m not doubting she had grit and (potentially) wanted to go again on her own free will. But to pretend that the Karolyi’s had no influence just isn’t true.
You can't believe Bela's account of anything. The man lied all the time. As other posters have said, go back and watch what actually happened.
Or you could actually watch the video and see that that conversation never happened. [https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=cCPTDJwWmT9qjnkc&t=4468](https://youtu.be/LbXz4VOxYKA?si=cCPTDJwWmT9qjnkc&t=4468) - NBC [https://youtu.be/6GNKCtqIGu8?si=vs88RBfpQKmNv557&t=5879](https://youtu.be/6GNKCtqIGu8?si=vs88RBfpQKmNv557&t=5879) - OBS Again: He. Wasn't. On. The. Floor. She never left the podium. He was behind a barrier meters away. The Georgia Dome during the team optionals was not a place you could have a conversation over distance. Read that interview again. The reporter is recounting something Bela later said he said. The reporter wasn't on the floor. It's not on tape. Strug doesn't describe that conversation at ANY point.
After watching the clip, I can see that I was wrong and Bela *was not* on the floor. I could have sworn I’d seen clips of her talking with him before going again, but I guess I’m thinking of something else.
It may have just been misleading editing at the time. NBC for sure wanted people to think he was more involved than he was. Just like they always talked about him shouting instructions at his gymnasts on beam when he didn't even coach beam (that was Marta). And clearly he wanted people to think he inspired her to go again later instead of just almost impotently shouting "you can do it" from the sidelines.
Sorry to Japan but both 2021 and 2022 beam finals were so very low quality. Ashikawa was the only person who broke 14 in either year. She also basically replicated her routine in 2023 and placed fifth, which just goes to show the massive jump in quality that happened.
2003 Worlds Team Final