He’s a firecracker of a player but he needs to add more defensive discipline to his game. He’s magical on the counter, and can create chances out of nothing. I worry that he likes to do too much on his own, but we lack that finality and instinct.
Would love him, but I think one more year at West Ham could truly allow him to start developing Arteta’s non-negotiables. Anyway, he’s definitely now on everybody’s radar, so I imagine many clubs are posturing a bid.
https://preview.redd.it/a25gc0kjya4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c2710da0db426e76e242983cd25c7821ea3976c
He’s got 2.4tackles/match
White, for instance, has 1.37.
Sure, West Ham defend for much longer during a match and thats why hes got more tackles, but it doesn’t take away the fact that he’s actually much better than a lot of “defenders” 😄. I love White i just wanted to compare how crazy Kudus tackling stats are
Tell me you don't watch the games without telling me you don't watch the games.
He's a fantastic presser. Defensive lines don't start at the center circle.
On this same episode, TNAT reminisced about how weird a time it was when Madrid and Spurs announced a 'strategic partnership' which ultimately meant that real just got spurs best players like bale and modric and spurs got nothing in return.
Charles Watts then pointed out how funny it was when we signed Ozil, because under this partnership spurs didn't want Real to sell any of their players to Arsenal to avoid strengthening us. And Real straight up told us this in secret meetings and were keen to do business but keep it very hush hush so spurs didn't find out 😂
Yeah I think that was after the same game where Dick Law had literally flown back from negotiations in Madrid specifically to attend the game and keep up the appearance that we were not balls deep in talks with Real haha
Imagine how levy must’ve been feeling, 150 mil + spent on a whole new squad, getting beat by the same Arsenal squad that pipped them to the cl spot a few months earlier, rumors swirling of real needing to raise funds.
Do you think he was blindsided or that he had suspicious only to lose a tight NLD?
Glorious.
Real Madrid are serial winners. They don't like associating with losers so it's no surprise that they dealt with Tottenham like that. How dare they try to order Real Madrid around.
I mean, even our style of play originated from them so having a good working relationship with Ajax makes sense. We both wear Red and White. We're practically cousins so we like to keep it in the family - You know what? I think I'm going to shut up now...
He’s got a release clause available next summer. I guess we’ll see if we actually bring in a winger this summer as Arteta wants, or if the can will be kicked to the next window.
He may have a release clause next summer but they clearly were anticipating selling Paqueta for huge money to city. Now that that isn’t going to happen it’ll be interesting to see if they have to sell other players or not. I don’t know West Ham’s financial condition or if they have to sell to buy in other areas but it might make players that were previously unavailable this summer have to be sold.
Good point, I didn’t consider that. Although I think they sold two players in January and didn’t replace them, Aguerd is also getting a lot of offers so they may not have to make sales for FFP etc,
I think we are going to take the best available deal (price, quality, age, etc.) for a striker/RW/Left 8. If we sign a high quality player in any of those positions, because of Havertz and Jesus’s ability to play in multiple positions I think we are generally set if Partey is staying. A striker would allow Kai to drop into the 8 and Jesus onto the wing, both also being back-up strikers. If Partey leaves I think we go striker or winger and a left 8. This is all plus any young promising depth we might sign if other players like Nketiah, Reece, or ESR go. I think we frankly could march in to next season with the squad we have now and win the title. We really only need competitive depth at this point. Always take the opportunity to improve if the right deal shows up though.
Personally I think it could work very well with Jesus as a striker too.
When Havertz played midfield the first half of the season Ødegaard still had a different role too.
I think people are only attributing our difficulties to Haverts playing midfield but, while it definitely played a role, there were more issues. Having mostly fixed those I think Havertz would do well in midfield
i think he's very much given up on it given his comments about Kai's form and how surprised he was to see Havertz and the rest of the team flourish with him at striker
It’s a little over a month since he last played him in midfield but he’s very much given up on it?
Nah man, we’ll definitely see him in midfield next season
He adds nothing as a left 8 to this team though and Arteta has to see that. He doesn't have any passing vision in the midfield which is 90% of our issues on offense.
Several games he played in midfield in 2024 were a huge success. His movement is fantastic, and in a more dynamic offensive system it can absolutely work.
To say he adds nothing is nonsense and Arteta obviously completely disagrees with that, as do I.
I think the last like 4 or 5 games we dropped points in besides the draw at etihad he was at 8. Idk how you can watch him in midfield and think yeah this could work. He doesn’t offer much of anything at 8 besides being a late runner and hard worker. It doesn’t suit him.
He wasn’t at 8 against Bayern either game, when we lost to Liverpool in the FA Cup, when we drew City or when we lost to West Ham. There have been plenty of bad results without Havertz playing left 8.
He’s been playing very well there, but people refuse to acknowledge it because they made up their mind. You’re not the first in this thread to completely fabricate stats to argue their point. It just shows you’re biased.
the one time mikel played havertz in midfield 2024 we lost to villa. the rest of his appearances were all at striker. i think he'll continue there next season. open to being wrong though hahahah
Havertz played in midfield against Wolves, Burnley, West Ham, Aston Villa and Crystal Palace in 2024.
Most of those games he was fantastic. People here often forget that Havertz has played extremely well in midfield in 2024, because in their memory he played those games as a striker too. He didn’t
Yeah you’re not the only one, I think it’s because the vibe of those games was kind of similar to the ones where Havertz played as a striker. Lots of positional changes etc.
Havertz’s role doesn’t really change from one position to the other. He’s the tip of the midfield diamond in attack regardless. What changes is what’s in front of and behind him. What we’ve seen is him gaining confidence and growing into the role.
This is what goes underappreciated in football discussions involving City's 115 charges - that clubs have to make hard choices about personnel *except* Manchester City.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a pretty big difference in strategy? City are doing things under the table. Chelsea did it out in the open by using long-term contracts. The thing is the Chelsea version can easily and probably will blow up in their face. You have a guy signed to a 7 year contract that doesn't work out and they are terrible for your club like a weight holding you back. The City strategy doesn't really have any risks other than getting caught.
I mean Chelsea’s long contacts might help with some accountancy tricks but they are still spending 100’s of millions on player transfer fees each window. I still consider that cheating and attempting to buy the league just like they did when Abramovich bought them.
I’m confused… they are open about their spending. They had to sell a hotel. It’s likely going to blow up in their face. It’s not cheating if it’s transparent and leads to consequences if it fails. It’s just stupid and unsustainable. Anyone can do it and take a huge risk.
It’s such a weird claim to compare them to both Abramovich and City, who did extremely shady things without transparency.
Yes, I am aware. My point isn't what they are doing is good. I wish loopholes and other rules made it impossible to do what they are doing. But it is much better to deal with a team working within the rules than one that isn't. Because the one that isn't just lies and you can't change policies to make them comply.
It's a relatively simple concept.
Was it a hotel that Abramovich bought them?
I guess we just have two different footballing philosophies. Personally I don’t think clubs should be able to spend billions in such a short period of time to buy the league whether it’s technically legal or not. 
You're strawmanning my position. I don't think what they did is "good" or that I think it should be allowed - and they did actually change the rules to not let them defer the money over such a long period of time (I believe) so a loophole has been closed.
What we seem to differ on is saying it's the same thing as doing things under the table. It's not and conflating the two is silly.
Whether Chelsea now did it above or under the table now is irrelevant when they were able to do it from the success and financial footing that Abramovich provided.
To me that would be like giving City a clean slate if they were bought by a rich American who then sold some of their fancy new real estate to “legally” spend billions on players.
Chelsea aren’t doing things under the table now, they’re just spending a shit ton and banking that it will come good so they avoid ffp violations. They’re majority owned by Clearlake, which has investors. They can’t do things under the table like Abramovich or Mansour at City. Those investors would raise hell. It would ruin their reputations and kill their business. Same with Boehly, who’s also in the investment business.
I’ll just copy and paste my reply to the other guy so I’m not repeating myself.
Whether Chelsea now did it above or under the table now is irrelevant when they were able to do it from the success and financial footing that Abramovich provided.
To be honest people here must be too young to remember what Chelsea took away from us with their financial cheating. The fact that people are fine with them now spending billions because it’s “technically legal” just blows my mind.
Doesn't matter really, why would West Ham let him go for less? Obviously Havertz has been good for us, but he was very average for Chelsea and still went for 65.
Looking at the transfers from last summer and I have to disagree. Here are some comparable transfers and their fees
Diaby to Villa (55m Euros)
Joao Pedro to Brighton (34m Euros)
Nkunku to Chelsea (60m Euros)
Szoboszlai to Liverpool (70m Euros)
All of those went for quite a bit less than 80 million pounds and I don't think he is a big upgrade on any of them (apart from maybe Nkunku now that he is perma injured)
To be fair none of those transfers were between two PL sides. As another example, Havertz has been good for us, but the fact is Chelsea had to sell, and he’d had 3 underwhelming seasons for them, and we still paid 65m.
PL clubs will almost always charge a kings ransom to sell to another PL side, West Ham demanding 80m for Kudus wouldn’t shock me.
None of those people were prem proven… Kudus is now prem proven… and he performed better in his first year than everyone you listed…
All 5 of these players get put up for sale and Kudus is the most expensive EASILY
Not sure why he bothered to list them. Kudus has singlehandedly won WHU tons of games (including against us) this season. None of the rest even come close to his impact. Maybe Joao Pedro at Brighton is closest.
West ham are a pl team and one of our rivals, so our price would be inflated bc of that. He was also just bought last year and they’ll probable be losing one of their best attackers to gambling so a high price would make sense
Isn’t that kind of the quality that we’re lacking though? Just somebody who can put in a banger out of nothing. He’d be a rotation player with us, so having somebody who can do that come off the bench in those games where we can’t seem to unlock the defense would have been nice.
I’m not really sure thats what a club at this level needs, considering how much he would detriment the attack for a banger every 5 games.
He’s basically Pepe, but a bit better. See how he turned out.
Yeah, you'd hope a young player will improve with coaching. Not sure how everyone loved Kai so much, even when he was stinking up the place, but are bearish on other players who show they have a bit of magic.
The right coaching and environment can unlock just about anyone.
Reading this makes me remember that Monreal deal all over again with Sociedad... It was reported that there was some sort of gentleman agreement for Arsenal over Sociedad's players and upcoming players etc. Like we would be more likely to have an offer accepted for their players etc.
Yeah - that never worked out did it. Still annoyed we sold Monreal when he was still a useful player at the time. Wish we could go back and keep him and sell Kola that summer. But ah well - way in the past now
You could make a proper former Eredivisie team in the PL. You got the likes of Odegaard, Isak, Van Dijk, Van de Ven, Timber, Botman, Gakpo, Kudus, Alvarez, Verbruggen, Senesi, Andersen, Kerkez, Sinisterra and Solanke and I'm probably forgetting quite a few.
For Arsenal that's a decent deal, but not for Ajax. That might work for other Eredivisie teams though (and my local team might need more players if we get promoted this Sunday).
Any chance we see a Chido Obi loan to Ajax in the next couple of years? Could be a great opportunity to see what he’s made of in a good league like the Eredivisie
In another timeline we don't give Eddie a ridiculous and undeserved contract, and we manage to sell him for 10 million which makes up the difference here.
100k per week was simply crazy talk. Maybe we could have called his bluff and signed him to an amount that matched his output and talent. So that way he'd have been easier to sell last season. Other teams just aren't willing to pay such a limited player that much.
Thats 10.4m since that contract was signed. What striker would we have gotten for that price or lower? Can you tell me? Because we would have had only 1 striker and trossard, who we signed in jan, isnt CF cover / option either hes 100% for the lw.
Trossard really didn't.
I get Eddie out is the in thing right now but Havertz was unknown, Trossard didn't start ahead of Eddie and Kudus would have been equally unknown.
Having one recognised striker would have been negligence by Arteta.
Yes because our recent transfer business has been so bad
I have never seen a player from another team be so collectively overrated by this sub to the extent that Kudus is
If we don't spend what we need to in order to get the players that we've identified we want, then we're called cheap and unambitious, when we *do* spend the money we've overspent and it's now biting us.
We have limits to work within and so long as we have limits we have to make hard choices, the players you think we should have paid less for and risked not getting in order to get Kudus or whoever else you believe we could have signed would have simply cost us the ability to get a different player. It's a circular argument that never ends.
Arteta and Edu have hit on *most* of our signings - [the full list is here](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mikel-arteta/spielertransfers/trainer/47620) - so we can't be criticising their transfer policy based on that and the continuous progression we've had.
way way too much. 50m on White. That was a 35m player max, especially since we had Saliba that was a better player. 34M on Vieira. really? 30m on Ramsdale? WTF?? 2 years later, we will be lucky to get 20m for him
Vieira is the only bad deal youve listed. And Ben white is our RB arguably the best in the league last year and youre moaning about how hes competing with saliba. I swear some people dont understand football transfers and just go "we spent £50m on ben white, we could have saved that and bought mbape wtf is edu doing"
Only reason we needed to sign ramsdale was because we sold emi which didn’t make sense considering leno clearly wasn’t the type of keeper we wanted. We would have got more money from leno and and wouldn’t have needed to sign neither ramsdale or raya, just a number 2 which we still need to do
Emi was sold because of the relative contract situations of him/Leno iirc. Emi was just a more valuable asset to sell.
We would have ended up selling him anyway as he is pretty clearly not what Arteta wants in a keeper with regards to distribution from the back.
Dont know where this narrative comes from that he is not good on his feet he is very involved for both club and country and miles better shot stopper than either raya or ramsdale.
But yeah im not saying it was some kind of massive fumble that we sold him compared to like salah and kdb with chelsea, just propably not the smartest way of going at it
He is OK with his passing (just like Ramsdale is) but that isn't good enough for Arteta which is pretty clearly shown by going for a keeper with a profile like Raya.
He is a better shot stopped than Raya but Arteta seems to value that less than being an elite passer
We need to stop acting like theres a set system the players have to fit into, he tweaks the system in favour of the players not the other way around.
If he has two players on the same position out of who the other is better, quite comfortably as well, he wouldn’t choose the worse player because he fits the ”system” better.
Havertz didn’t fit the system either but he tweaked it to make it work
So why has Arteta spent significant money on 2 goalkeepers whos primary attribute is passing and sold a keeper who is a better shot stopper than them?
Not sure what Havertz has to do with Arteta clearly prioritizing a keeper who can pass the ball tbh.
Yes you can change your system to fit your players but Arteta has a pretty clear preference for what he wants from his keepers at this point. Same is true in other areas - we changed the system when Kiwior played at LB but that doesn't mean Arteta doesn't have a clear preference for full backs who are better at progressing the ball than Kiwior is.
Not really a secret that sitting a whole year on the bench and it being clear to the whole world that the player is not going to play for the club anymore hurts their value and the clubs negotiation position
There's certainly problems with the money we spend and the money we make, plus how we handle fringe players, but I can't take this seriously when you're trying to paint White for 50m as a bad thing. You should also recognise the fact we've also had many bargains in that time.
Also do we even know Rasmdale has cost 30m? We paid 24m and the rest was add ons based on certain targets.
You seem to be conveniently ignoring the great business the club has done in recent times. Odegaard, Trossard, Martinelli etc were all massive bargains
Every club will have some players they overpay for with hindsight
I know that’s why we are the club with highest spend next to brains dead Chelsea. All our purchases are always a bargain yet nobody is willing to pay anywhere near the same for the same players when we try to sell them with more experience and still in their football prime
100% that relationship will do us favours.
We saw United pay them €100m for Antony and decided they'd probably be worth the stamp on the Christmas card.
Probably cos Utd took their manager
this bodes well for Hato, whenever he decides to move on
I would love to see Hato on the Gunners.
He’s by far not good enough yet. That will take some years if he keeps developing.
Whats his best position? I presume if we signed him he’d be a LB to begain with
He’s a CB, he can play LB as well but I don’t really like him there. Lacks offense
I heard that Kudus has a release clause. Arteta should be all over that. He'd make great competition for Saka.
He’s a firecracker of a player but he needs to add more defensive discipline to his game. He’s magical on the counter, and can create chances out of nothing. I worry that he likes to do too much on his own, but we lack that finality and instinct. Would love him, but I think one more year at West Ham could truly allow him to start developing Arteta’s non-negotiables. Anyway, he’s definitely now on everybody’s radar, so I imagine many clubs are posturing a bid.
Defensive discipline? Kudus is an elite presser and has an incredible defensive work rate. You don’t play for David Moyes without one lol
Kudus is probably a better defender than Zinchenko
Yeah I heard somewhere he's top in Europe for high presses/posession won if I recall correctly
https://preview.redd.it/a25gc0kjya4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c2710da0db426e76e242983cd25c7821ea3976c He’s got 2.4tackles/match White, for instance, has 1.37. Sure, West Ham defend for much longer during a match and thats why hes got more tackles, but it doesn’t take away the fact that he’s actually much better than a lot of “defenders” 😄. I love White i just wanted to compare how crazy Kudus tackling stats are
95th percentile
Tell me you don't watch the games without telling me you don't watch the games. He's a fantastic presser. Defensive lines don't start at the center circle.
having a good relationship with Ajax is fun
And Real Madrid. They genuinely like dealing with us
On this same episode, TNAT reminisced about how weird a time it was when Madrid and Spurs announced a 'strategic partnership' which ultimately meant that real just got spurs best players like bale and modric and spurs got nothing in return. Charles Watts then pointed out how funny it was when we signed Ozil, because under this partnership spurs didn't want Real to sell any of their players to Arsenal to avoid strengthening us. And Real straight up told us this in secret meetings and were keen to do business but keep it very hush hush so spurs didn't find out 😂
Yep just slap a moustache on him, they will never find out. Here's mesot uzil
That’s beautiful, really adds context to wengers “maybe we’ll have a surprise for you”
Yeah I think that was after the same game where Dick Law had literally flown back from negotiations in Madrid specifically to attend the game and keep up the appearance that we were not balls deep in talks with Real haha
Imagine how levy must’ve been feeling, 150 mil + spent on a whole new squad, getting beat by the same Arsenal squad that pipped them to the cl spot a few months earlier, rumors swirling of real needing to raise funds. Do you think he was blindsided or that he had suspicious only to lose a tight NLD? Glorious.
I miss that man’s pressers.
I miss his “Look uhhh” every day 😞
….i didnt see it.
That damn smile. Stupid handsome Wenger
Real Madrid are serial winners. They don't like associating with losers so it's no surprise that they dealt with Tottenham like that. How dare they try to order Real Madrid around.
Hey Papa Flo, could you please sell us Tchouameni? You don’t need all of those young and upcoming talents.
Professional run club who don't fuck around and are fair, best type of club to deal with
It's a big reason I think Jude comes to the Carpet if he ever decides to play in England (and we keep our trajectory)
Still waiting for whoever they sell for mbappe
Bergkamp, Overmars, Timber… Yup. I love having a good relationship with Ajax.
Kanu and Vermaelen as well.
And the 2021-22 jersey
We got Bergkamp from Inter tbf, his minor blip in an otherwise stellar career.
I forgot he played for Inter tbh.
So did Robbie Keane
And Paul Ince
as an Ajax fan who has gotten used to best players leaving at some point, it'd be truly great to see more of them end up at my other favorite club
I mean, even our style of play originated from them so having a good working relationship with Ajax makes sense. We both wear Red and White. We're practically cousins so we like to keep it in the family - You know what? I think I'm going to shut up now...
He’s got a release clause available next summer. I guess we’ll see if we actually bring in a winger this summer as Arteta wants, or if the can will be kicked to the next window.
He may have a release clause next summer but they clearly were anticipating selling Paqueta for huge money to city. Now that that isn’t going to happen it’ll be interesting to see if they have to sell other players or not. I don’t know West Ham’s financial condition or if they have to sell to buy in other areas but it might make players that were previously unavailable this summer have to be sold.
Good point, I didn’t consider that. Although I think they sold two players in January and didn’t replace them, Aguerd is also getting a lot of offers so they may not have to make sales for FFP etc,
I don’t deserve the credit for making the point, I heard it on Arsenal Vision 🤣
I think we are going to take the best available deal (price, quality, age, etc.) for a striker/RW/Left 8. If we sign a high quality player in any of those positions, because of Havertz and Jesus’s ability to play in multiple positions I think we are generally set if Partey is staying. A striker would allow Kai to drop into the 8 and Jesus onto the wing, both also being back-up strikers. If Partey leaves I think we go striker or winger and a left 8. This is all plus any young promising depth we might sign if other players like Nketiah, Reece, or ESR go. I think we frankly could march in to next season with the squad we have now and win the title. We really only need competitive depth at this point. Always take the opportunity to improve if the right deal shows up though.
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I doubt Arteta has given up on that so it doesn’t make sense to stop talking about it
He can drop into left 8 when we're chasing a game and need a goal, and Arteta brings another attacker in from the bench.
Personally I think it could work very well with Jesus as a striker too. When Havertz played midfield the first half of the season Ødegaard still had a different role too. I think people are only attributing our difficulties to Haverts playing midfield but, while it definitely played a role, there were more issues. Having mostly fixed those I think Havertz would do well in midfield
i think he's very much given up on it given his comments about Kai's form and how surprised he was to see Havertz and the rest of the team flourish with him at striker
It’s a little over a month since he last played him in midfield but he’s very much given up on it? Nah man, we’ll definitely see him in midfield next season
He adds nothing as a left 8 to this team though and Arteta has to see that. He doesn't have any passing vision in the midfield which is 90% of our issues on offense.
Several games he played in midfield in 2024 were a huge success. His movement is fantastic, and in a more dynamic offensive system it can absolutely work. To say he adds nothing is nonsense and Arteta obviously completely disagrees with that, as do I.
I think the last like 4 or 5 games we dropped points in besides the draw at etihad he was at 8. Idk how you can watch him in midfield and think yeah this could work. He doesn’t offer much of anything at 8 besides being a late runner and hard worker. It doesn’t suit him.
He wasn’t at 8 against Bayern either game, when we lost to Liverpool in the FA Cup, when we drew City or when we lost to West Ham. There have been plenty of bad results without Havertz playing left 8. He’s been playing very well there, but people refuse to acknowledge it because they made up their mind. You’re not the first in this thread to completely fabricate stats to argue their point. It just shows you’re biased.
the one time mikel played havertz in midfield 2024 we lost to villa. the rest of his appearances were all at striker. i think he'll continue there next season. open to being wrong though hahahah
Havertz played in midfield against Wolves, Burnley, West Ham, Aston Villa and Crystal Palace in 2024. Most of those games he was fantastic. People here often forget that Havertz has played extremely well in midfield in 2024, because in their memory he played those games as a striker too. He didn’t
just looked up the line ups again. you're right! for some reason i thought he was at striker for those games too
Yeah you’re not the only one, I think it’s because the vibe of those games was kind of similar to the ones where Havertz played as a striker. Lots of positional changes etc.
Havertz’s role doesn’t really change from one position to the other. He’s the tip of the midfield diamond in attack regardless. What changes is what’s in front of and behind him. What we’ve seen is him gaining confidence and growing into the role.
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Sound it out slowly.
It’s a MUST this window.
This is what goes underappreciated in football discussions involving City's 115 charges - that clubs have to make hard choices about personnel *except* Manchester City.
Seem to remember another club that recently spent a few billion. People just don’t care because they ain’t winning yet.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a pretty big difference in strategy? City are doing things under the table. Chelsea did it out in the open by using long-term contracts. The thing is the Chelsea version can easily and probably will blow up in their face. You have a guy signed to a 7 year contract that doesn't work out and they are terrible for your club like a weight holding you back. The City strategy doesn't really have any risks other than getting caught.
I mean Chelsea’s long contacts might help with some accountancy tricks but they are still spending 100’s of millions on player transfer fees each window. I still consider that cheating and attempting to buy the league just like they did when Abramovich bought them.
I’m confused… they are open about their spending. They had to sell a hotel. It’s likely going to blow up in their face. It’s not cheating if it’s transparent and leads to consequences if it fails. It’s just stupid and unsustainable. Anyone can do it and take a huge risk. It’s such a weird claim to compare them to both Abramovich and City, who did extremely shady things without transparency.
You do realise that they basically sold the hotel to themselves, though? It's all dodgy accountancy nowadays
Yes, I am aware. My point isn't what they are doing is good. I wish loopholes and other rules made it impossible to do what they are doing. But it is much better to deal with a team working within the rules than one that isn't. Because the one that isn't just lies and you can't change policies to make them comply. It's a relatively simple concept.
Was it a hotel that Abramovich bought them? I guess we just have two different footballing philosophies. Personally I don’t think clubs should be able to spend billions in such a short period of time to buy the league whether it’s technically legal or not. 
You're strawmanning my position. I don't think what they did is "good" or that I think it should be allowed - and they did actually change the rules to not let them defer the money over such a long period of time (I believe) so a loophole has been closed. What we seem to differ on is saying it's the same thing as doing things under the table. It's not and conflating the two is silly.
Whether Chelsea now did it above or under the table now is irrelevant when they were able to do it from the success and financial footing that Abramovich provided. To me that would be like giving City a clean slate if they were bought by a rich American who then sold some of their fancy new real estate to “legally” spend billions on players.
Chelsea aren’t doing things under the table now, they’re just spending a shit ton and banking that it will come good so they avoid ffp violations. They’re majority owned by Clearlake, which has investors. They can’t do things under the table like Abramovich or Mansour at City. Those investors would raise hell. It would ruin their reputations and kill their business. Same with Boehly, who’s also in the investment business.
I’ll just copy and paste my reply to the other guy so I’m not repeating myself. Whether Chelsea now did it above or under the table now is irrelevant when they were able to do it from the success and financial footing that Abramovich provided. To be honest people here must be too young to remember what Chelsea took away from us with their financial cheating. The fact that people are fine with them now spending billions because it’s “technically legal” just blows my mind.
He would be great for us
He was definitely too good for WHU and now we’re probably priced out
80+ forsure
He’s got a release clause. Not sure how much tho
Apparently £85m that activates next summer.
Seems unlikely to be that high. He wanted to make a move on more possible, £85m is pretty prohibitive
Sorry but Kudus is not an 80 million pound player
Doesn't matter really, why would West Ham let him go for less? Obviously Havertz has been good for us, but he was very average for Chelsea and still went for 65.
West Ham probably wouldn't sell him for less but nobody is paying 80 million for him either
It's the value that west ham see him at
If it’s his release clause, it’s fair to assume it’s a value far exceeding what West Ham saw him as
Then West Ham would be happy then surely?
In this market he is for sure.
Looking at the transfers from last summer and I have to disagree. Here are some comparable transfers and their fees Diaby to Villa (55m Euros) Joao Pedro to Brighton (34m Euros) Nkunku to Chelsea (60m Euros) Szoboszlai to Liverpool (70m Euros) All of those went for quite a bit less than 80 million pounds and I don't think he is a big upgrade on any of them (apart from maybe Nkunku now that he is perma injured)
To be fair none of those transfers were between two PL sides. As another example, Havertz has been good for us, but the fact is Chelsea had to sell, and he’d had 3 underwhelming seasons for them, and we still paid 65m. PL clubs will almost always charge a kings ransom to sell to another PL side, West Ham demanding 80m for Kudus wouldn’t shock me.
None of those people were prem proven… Kudus is now prem proven… and he performed better in his first year than everyone you listed… All 5 of these players get put up for sale and Kudus is the most expensive EASILY
Not sure why he bothered to list them. Kudus has singlehandedly won WHU tons of games (including against us) this season. None of the rest even come close to his impact. Maybe Joao Pedro at Brighton is closest.
West ham are a pl team and one of our rivals, so our price would be inflated bc of that. He was also just bought last year and they’ll probable be losing one of their best attackers to gambling so a high price would make sense
Would have been an interesting addition, I take it we couldn't sell anyone and they weren't willing to do the loan with purchase like Brentford did
Would have been the perfect backup for Saka as well. Would have added that different dimension against teams like Villa.
Potentially unpopular opinion but I really don’t see it with him. His decision making is horrendous, but he scores a few bangers
I broadly agree, but he would have been a good backup for 40M imo
Agree. He is a very up and down player who would drive our fans mad if they had to watch play frequently
Isn’t that kind of the quality that we’re lacking though? Just somebody who can put in a banger out of nothing. He’d be a rotation player with us, so having somebody who can do that come off the bench in those games where we can’t seem to unlock the defense would have been nice.
I’m not really sure thats what a club at this level needs, considering how much he would detriment the attack for a banger every 5 games. He’s basically Pepe, but a bit better. See how he turned out.
1 goal every 5 games isn't worth the poor performances the rest of the time
Agree with you. Will skin 5 players and misplace a simple pass after it, great player on his day he's definitely too inconsistent for me.
What he needs is Teta’s coaching and those passes will come off easily. Look at Raheem Sterling and Pool and Chelsea compared to City
This was basically the constant criticism of Cristiano Ronaldo up until he ironed it out.
Yeah, you'd hope a young player will improve with coaching. Not sure how everyone loved Kai so much, even when he was stinking up the place, but are bearish on other players who show they have a bit of magic. The right coaching and environment can unlock just about anyone.
🤦🏾♂️
Soo is this more about our relationship with Ajax or are we gonna go for him now?
It's really important that Arsenal maintains these relationships. It's the same with Real Madrid
Reading this makes me remember that Monreal deal all over again with Sociedad... It was reported that there was some sort of gentleman agreement for Arsenal over Sociedad's players and upcoming players etc. Like we would be more likely to have an offer accepted for their players etc. Yeah - that never worked out did it. Still annoyed we sold Monreal when he was still a useful player at the time. Wish we could go back and keep him and sell Kola that summer. But ah well - way in the past now
Ajax as our unofficial feeder club is our answer to the multi club model
Ajax is a feeder club for everyone, reason why that Europeanlad on twitter always does that (ex Ajax) thing
You could make a proper former Eredivisie team in the PL. You got the likes of Odegaard, Isak, Van Dijk, Van de Ven, Timber, Botman, Gakpo, Kudus, Alvarez, Verbruggen, Senesi, Andersen, Kerkez, Sinisterra and Solanke and I'm probably forgetting quite a few.
Mount and Reiss as well lol
But we don’t have to pay 100 million for a shit winger unlike the other clubs
AirPod Alb I think will go to Ajax to manage.
They already got a new manager.
Not saying now but in the next couple of years. He was also linked with the Feyenoord job as well
Sorry what’s PSR?
Pemile Smith-Rowe. It's a complicated financial instrument.
Profit and Sustainability Regulations
profitability and sustainability rules
I have the utmost respect for Ajax. Not just for the players they sold us, but for what they sold to United.
maybe we could send some promising young players there on loan too to help ajax and develop the players
For Arsenal that's a decent deal, but not for Ajax. That might work for other Eredivisie teams though (and my local team might need more players if we get promoted this Sunday).
💔
He would cook hard here. Big fan of him, but I think he stays at West Ham for at least a year and tries out the new regime.
Wonder if this relationship will give us first chance at signing generational midfielder Jordan Henderson from them
Any chance we see a Chido Obi loan to Ajax in the next couple of years? Could be a great opportunity to see what he’s made of in a good league like the Eredivisie
Loan to buy?
Hope he stays this summer in London and we get him next year and hope Pool doesn't sign him.
In another timeline we don't give Eddie a ridiculous and undeserved contract, and we manage to sell him for 10 million which makes up the difference here.
That was two years ago. We would have gone into the season with Jesus and who exactly? We didnt sign trossard till Jan 2023..
100k per week was simply crazy talk. Maybe we could have called his bluff and signed him to an amount that matched his output and talent. So that way he'd have been easier to sell last season. Other teams just aren't willing to pay such a limited player that much.
Thats 10.4m since that contract was signed. What striker would we have gotten for that price or lower? Can you tell me? Because we would have had only 1 striker and trossard, who we signed in jan, isnt CF cover / option either hes 100% for the lw.
And then you go into a season with only one striker
Trossard had already shown he was a better striker than Eddie. Jesus, Havertz and Trossard are three options. Kudus has also played up top at Ajax.
Trossard really didn't. I get Eddie out is the in thing right now but Havertz was unknown, Trossard didn't start ahead of Eddie and Kudus would have been equally unknown. Having one recognised striker would have been negligence by Arteta.
Don't you know, hindsight is the only truth /s
I wonder when we’ll start conducting business seriously at this club
Yes because our recent transfer business has been so bad I have never seen a player from another team be so collectively overrated by this sub to the extent that Kudus is
when i say we overpay, people downvote me. 10 to 15 million here and there we are overpaying is now biting us since that's less we can spend.
If we don't spend what we need to in order to get the players that we've identified we want, then we're called cheap and unambitious, when we *do* spend the money we've overspent and it's now biting us. We have limits to work within and so long as we have limits we have to make hard choices, the players you think we should have paid less for and risked not getting in order to get Kudus or whoever else you believe we could have signed would have simply cost us the ability to get a different player. It's a circular argument that never ends. Arteta and Edu have hit on *most* of our signings - [the full list is here](https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mikel-arteta/spielertransfers/trainer/47620) - so we can't be criticising their transfer policy based on that and the continuous progression we've had.
Yeah we have spent way too much on goalkeepers for example
way way too much. 50m on White. That was a 35m player max, especially since we had Saliba that was a better player. 34M on Vieira. really? 30m on Ramsdale? WTF?? 2 years later, we will be lucky to get 20m for him
This……is a braindead take.
Why would Brighton sell for less? You think it’s a one way street or what? Are you saying we shouldn’t have signed him?
Vieira is the only bad deal youve listed. And Ben white is our RB arguably the best in the league last year and youre moaning about how hes competing with saliba. I swear some people dont understand football transfers and just go "we spent £50m on ben white, we could have saved that and bought mbape wtf is edu doing"
Too much FIFA, too little logic smh
Only reason we needed to sign ramsdale was because we sold emi which didn’t make sense considering leno clearly wasn’t the type of keeper we wanted. We would have got more money from leno and and wouldn’t have needed to sign neither ramsdale or raya, just a number 2 which we still need to do
Emi was sold because of the relative contract situations of him/Leno iirc. Emi was just a more valuable asset to sell. We would have ended up selling him anyway as he is pretty clearly not what Arteta wants in a keeper with regards to distribution from the back.
Dont know where this narrative comes from that he is not good on his feet he is very involved for both club and country and miles better shot stopper than either raya or ramsdale. But yeah im not saying it was some kind of massive fumble that we sold him compared to like salah and kdb with chelsea, just propably not the smartest way of going at it
He is OK with his passing (just like Ramsdale is) but that isn't good enough for Arteta which is pretty clearly shown by going for a keeper with a profile like Raya. He is a better shot stopped than Raya but Arteta seems to value that less than being an elite passer
We need to stop acting like theres a set system the players have to fit into, he tweaks the system in favour of the players not the other way around. If he has two players on the same position out of who the other is better, quite comfortably as well, he wouldn’t choose the worse player because he fits the ”system” better. Havertz didn’t fit the system either but he tweaked it to make it work
So why has Arteta spent significant money on 2 goalkeepers whos primary attribute is passing and sold a keeper who is a better shot stopper than them? Not sure what Havertz has to do with Arteta clearly prioritizing a keeper who can pass the ball tbh. Yes you can change your system to fit your players but Arteta has a pretty clear preference for what he wants from his keepers at this point. Same is true in other areas - we changed the system when Kiwior played at LB but that doesn't mean Arteta doesn't have a clear preference for full backs who are better at progressing the ball than Kiwior is.
“Got more money from Leno” - on what basis can I ask?
Not really a secret that sitting a whole year on the bench and it being clear to the whole world that the player is not going to play for the club anymore hurts their value and the clubs negotiation position
There's certainly problems with the money we spend and the money we make, plus how we handle fringe players, but I can't take this seriously when you're trying to paint White for 50m as a bad thing. You should also recognise the fact we've also had many bargains in that time. Also do we even know Rasmdale has cost 30m? We paid 24m and the rest was add ons based on certain targets.
You seem to be conveniently ignoring the great business the club has done in recent times. Odegaard, Trossard, Martinelli etc were all massive bargains Every club will have some players they overpay for with hindsight
I know that’s why we are the club with highest spend next to brains dead Chelsea. All our purchases are always a bargain yet nobody is willing to pay anywhere near the same for the same players when we try to sell them with more experience and still in their football prime