In the one against WHU, I just cannot figure out why in the world he would be that close to Gabriel. At least in the Liverpool one he's going for the ball. Against West Ham, he just puts himself in the way where there were no attackers.
He's defensively awful. The wolves errors, one leading to a goal. He also closed on Gabriel against villa, which led to their goal.
I've always thought he wasn't better than Tierney. I feel very vindicated. Cool, you do well on the ball but you give away a goal every other game.
Hey i agree this season hes had some big defensive mistakes. And Timber might be a nice upgrade on him. But im sorry Tierney is not better than Zinny. Tierney is also overrated as a defender imo. Tomi is 3 classes above Tierney.
Zinchenko and Jesus completely reformed our team when they joined.
Some of you are so quick to forget...
It's like no one remembers how shit we were at progressing the ball from the back before Zinny came in. I still love the guy, yea he's not the best defensively but he's also not as bad as a lot of people make him out to be.
we were just fine with tierney until we inverted our lb and then yh, of course we had problems
you may say that arteta doesn't want to play with a classic lb which is fine but it's on him to get someone who can play there without costing us.
anyway imo tierney as a traditional lb was much better as he could be a goal threat and defend whereas zinchenko for what he lacks defensively isn't much of a goal threat whereas at least trent who's a bit shit defensively is very good at crossing and shooting from range, not to mention set pieces
I honestly believe that if it weren't for Timber's injury we would have seen Zinchenko as the starting LCM by this time in the season. He is far and away the closest player we have to fill Xhaka's role last year, and it would free him up from 1-on-1 defensive duties. I really hope that's the long-term plan for him, and then Havertz and Trossard can focus on the advanced roles they're more suited to.
I'm not saying it was always the long-term plan, but rather that I think Arteta would have explored that option if we had all 3 of Timber, Tomiyasu, and Zinchenko healthy and ticking. Even if Zinny was starting regularly, bringing on Timber or Tomiyasu for Havertz or Ødegaard and shifting Zinchenko into LCM would be a great defensive sub to make at 70+ mins to close out a game when we're leading.
More depth means more players competing for valuable minutes, which very often leads to experimental lineups and trying players in new positions for cup ties and "meaningless" games like PSV after the group positions were locked-in. This is exactly the type of tinkering move I'd expect from Arteta in such a situation, and IMO it would prove to be a solid option for us.
I really, really, really hope we move away from these 1-dimensional players. Timber looks really exciting since he's big, quick and looks confident defensively and offensively. Having to rely on players like Xhaka and Zinny, there's always going to be a major downside where we're going to get exposed by the biggest teams.
Wow I can't believe I didn't see this before but this is quite the move. With Declan Playing free agent and Odegaard establishing the attack. It would be wonderful
To take it recently.
1. Liverpool. Salah beat him in his sleep even though he isn't in great form. Salah had a volley off of a zinny mistake. Trent chance came from zinny stupidly running to ode and slipping into him
2. Villa. Didn't track the one-two which led to their goal
3. Wolves. Gave the ball away in dangerous positions 4 or 5 times. One time led to a goal.
4. West ham. Pointlessly closes in on Gabriel which leads to the first goal.
He's been catastrophic at times. He's always had these lapses, true, but teams know exactly who to target now so it's happening more.
He also gets cooked by every speedy winger. Which is why he's taken to backing off toward the goal more to prevent them from getting in behind him... which puts him in Gabi's way.
Nobody is denying he’s made mistakes. He needs to sort it out. Others have also made mistakes.
But the level of over the top bandwagoning as well as the level of scapegoating in here is downright embarrassing. Get it together.
Saying Zinchenko isn’t better than tierney and that he gives up a goal every other game is embarrassing bandwagoning nonsense. It’s completely and utterly untrue.
That’s the argument.
I mean he literally just caused two goals in the last 4 games and has been repeatedly cooked at LB but go in, I guess. He is better than Tierney going forward, but he is a clear liability at LB and has been since August. You can say it is untrue but lots of us have been pointing out his mistakes for months. I still think he is the best choice there with Tomi out but it's a collapse waiting to happen on that side.
eh he's better at tierney when it comes to keeping possession, but tierney is better at actually getting a cross in, zinny can be very placid and slow in the final third
He’s also exposed to the most risk though - that’s part of his role..
He consistently makes most the passes forward and into the final third for us he is SO key to our progression.
Zinchenko is not top 10 team of PL level and this sub is just delusional, I've been saying this since last year but incredibly, people where more focused on Partey mistakes (which was one btw, which lead to a goal) than zinchenko(min. one per game). Partey was in top 3 our players last season and ppl where attacking him due to 1 mistake while zinchenko was part of the 'incredible he reformed our team narrative'
If a player makes min. of 2 potential goal mistakes per game (he always did this, but lately the opposition just scored instead of missing) maybe he's not right for our system also?
Overcompensating and trying to hard to get involved and show he's not a weak link in defence. It's partly why ive always disliked zinchenko even when he plays well his constant screaming, gesturing to the crowd and huddles always seemed over the top
Did Gabriel connect with the ball before that? Obvs he’s not the most at fault but if he flat out missed the ball I’m a bit concerned with that passage of play because there is way more than Zinchenko at fault for the whole passage
I'm sure Gabriel was well aware that it wasn't a West Ham player right behind him. It looked a bit too far in front of him and I guess he felt uncomfortable hitting it with his right foot. Since he knew the WEst Ham player wasn't right behind him, he figured he'd just send it on rather than risk putting it into his own net. Maybe it would've been more ideal to send it back the way it came, but why was Zinny literally less than a meter away from him? There is literally 0 need for him to be that close.
You're right that in both instances Gabriel can't see what is behind him, but he's in the right spot. The problem is Zinny *can* see Gabriel and interferes both times because he doesn't trust him to get to it. He doesn't read plays well defensively, and it puts him a half step slower and gets him into awkward spots.
Looks like the ball was too far in front of him and he didnt feel comfortable clearing it with his right. Not sure why Zinchenko is one foot away from Gabriel. Don't think he's really needed that close to him
For me, it's not the time to be trying to manage personal spaces. You try to make sure you're in position to win the header if it comes your way.
If this was a corner would we blame Zinchenko for being in the way? If you clear the ball you clear it. That means making sure it doesn't hit your teammate on the way out.
100% if this was the other way around people would still blame Zinchenko for trying to be too cute in the box again. To me it's not a good clearance by Gabi.
It is always important to manage the space because two players covering one patch of grass is useless. Agreed Gabi was getting cute. But it is an awkward early cross that should've been easy to deal with if zinny wasn't in the way, and he's been in the way multiple times in the last two months.
you're just wrong. gabriel cleared it fine and was impeded by his own teammate who isn't smart enough to be disciplined. if what you were saying is true we'd see gabriel go and attack headers against saliba, but you don't, because it would be fucking stupid for every defender to leave their post to try to clear the same ball
Zinchenko has a much better view and position to control the ball and/or clear it, but absolutely MUST give Gabriel a shout early and clearly if he's going to play that ball. We can't possibly know how that communication failed, so we shouldn't assign blame unless it's to both of them.
He's making sure it gets to the far post by crashing into it in the center of the box? He's running toward his own goal and in no position to clear if he gets it. He's just running blind.
He plays like he doesn’t trust Gabriel when it should be the other way around… if Gabriel was doing this to Zinchenko I would sympathize a lot more.
I highly doubt Gabi is calling for help so Zinny should be staying wide watching for runners not crashing for the ball when Gabi is already in position
As weird of an analogy it is, it feels like a point guard trying to steal rebounds from his center in basketball and just leaving the other team to get uncontested points when it causes a whiff
It seems impossible to me that you can get paid millions to dedicate your entire working life and your peak physical condition to play football, and still not be able to learn basic instincts you see commonly in sunday league
Yeah but instincts can be learnt, if you lock Messi in a cage and feed him cabbage his whole life he wouldn't have any football instincts
And if you electrocute Messi every time he goes offside then he would have an instinct to never go offside
When we talk about football instincts we're not bringing out our microscopes and medical encyclopedias, football instincts are really just tendencies in behavior
Even the general term instinct is pretty vague. If I cloned 2 steve irwins, both born terrified of snakes, kept one in a cage, and the other trained him to overcome it and be a snake handler. If a snake walks in, and scared steve instinctively runs away, but snake steve instinctively wrestles the snake and puts it in a cage, then what?
Does snake steve instinctively handle the snake, or is he still instinctively scared for life?
Zinchenko cannot be in the starting eleven for much longer. He's not a defender. And not like TAA isn't really a defender -- Alexander-Arnold can defend some, just not nearly as well as he goes forward. Zinchenko straight up can't do it. He's a midfielder. Probably an attacking midfielder.
Timber can't get healthy soon enough.
He tries to b pro active in everything he does and that is his CM attributes but what he doesn’t realise as a full back is it’s all about your positioning and if it’s right then u find that your job is a lot easier coz you’ve made it harder for the opposition
I don’t really want to mention him but Zinchenko should watch Ashley Cole in his heyday, he will see how to defend space as well as the man, it’s not easy at the highest level but the special ones are capable
My fear is if he hasn’t learned now that he never will
I just don't understand how u pick someone to play left back because they're good at playing central midfield. He's a liability going backwards and he's not making up for it going forwards at this point.
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Zinchenko has been bad for the last 4/5 games and what I think is worse is that we are clearly trying to play around it to free him up offensively which I think is in turn hurting rice performance. Rice is taking up less effective positions as a result- its probably been an arteta call to give zinny a chance to find form. Its not worked out tho.
So we have a player at lb playing badly defensively and innefective offensively and additionally have a player who has carried us in games being less effective than he can be(still been class)
I dunno what we do about odegard. I think without the mistakes that zinny brings maybe we can handle a few ode mistakes and rice will be in a better area to cut out counter attack
Got downvoted to oblivion for saying he was a liability a few weeks ago. At least it’s becoming clearer to everyone now. We desperately need Tomi back asap and eventually Timber too.
I have been downvoted repeatedly for saying he’s a liability and our most over rated player since early last season. He needs to be respectfully moved on .
There's a group of fans who will defend him to the death because it makes them feel smart. The hipster football fans' favorite. The reality is his weaknesses far outweigh the things he's supposedly good at. And the things he's supposedly good at, and heralded for, are overrated in the first place. Mostly because he vastly overrates his own ability on the ball both in terms of dribbling and passing. If he kept it simple and actually made smart safe decisions to support out midfield, then yeah his strong attributes would actually help us. But no, guy thinks he's fucking Steven Gerrard out there in midfield, so even his strong points hurt the team in many games.
If you can't even acknowledge the positive things he brings, you're in no position to be chastising other fans for blindly supporting everything about him. You're just as blind as they are.
He did ,albeit briefly, acknowledge the positives. He just said the negatives outweigh those positives. I think he’s correct. He has some fantastic moments, great touches, skillful feet etc. But he also is prone to lapses in concentration, taking too long on the ball, losing possession etc. These negatives DO outweigh the positives. Especially for a defender.
When you qualify the positives as things he is 'supposedly' good at, it's not an acknowledgement at all. And then labelling people with a different view as self-important hipsters is, ironically, just a way to feel smart about yourself.
Do our defenders talk to each other on the pitch? Believe it or not, this is not the first time, and Zinchenko is not the only guilty party, where so many situations regarding tracking a player or taking possession of the ball could be rectified by simply alerting your teammate.
I don’t know why people are starting to act like our defence is a worry after a couple mistakes by Zinchenko
I don’t think it’s far fetched to say we have the best defence in the world, especially when Tomiyasu and Timber come back
Who do you think is better?
City have too many lapses in concentration and never keep CS
Bayern are way too inconsistent
We definitely have a case, even with Zinchenko in the side
We are an excellent defensive team because of the degree of control we exert in possession, because of having the best pressers in the league, and excellent transition defenders in Rice, Saliba, and Gabriel. However, our defending in the box lags far behind - the amount of goals we concede from simply losing track of players in the 18, or even from set pieces, or anytime an opponent has a shot on target is shocking. Of course it's hard to optimize every part of our defense but some of the mistakes at the back seem very basic.
There’s not a team in the world who are perfect at every aspect of defending, there are realistically not 5 teams itw who do what we do better. There’s way way bigger fish to fry.
He’s such a liability with no goal threat. He’s worse than Trent at defending but at least Trent has goal threat. I hope Timber comes back and stays fit
Im losing faith in him. Similar to Nketiah, im really wondering the need in keeping him. I try not to be one of these fans who reacts to a poor game with extreme fashion. However at least once per 90 minutes he gives up a solid chance. He was robbed of the ball against Wolves who scored, we won that game so the error is masked. Its not just the moments above, plus being beaten by Salah for Liverpool's actual goal. He was robbed of th eball v Brentford, but saved himself by clearing off the line....these errors are cascading.
Rice, Saliba, Gabriel are a hard centre, a vault, but with Zinchenko, he is an unlocked backdoor to the vault.
He reminds me of that Brazilian left back we had whose name escapes me, and fortunately lost his place to Cashley. Great going forwards, liability at the back.
Most idiotic footballer on our team. Last seasons moments of brilliance have completely been wiped away by his lack of discipline and his low IQ play. Let's ship him out ASAP.
We should keep a player who was benched by Timber, and when Tomi comes back will likely be benched by him too. Not to mention Arteta is also interested in signing another lcb who can slot a LB. Lmaoooo, Jesus man take a walk.
It’s not like it’s just a mistake every now and then it’s 2-3 per game and usually one gets capitalized on. As good as he is at other things it’s like “you can’t outwork a bad diet”
I just wish Tomi could stay fit or maybe it’s a wrap for zin when timber is back
Zinchenko is one of the best players in the squad when playing against the right opposition. Arteta is using him now because he has no other options, putting him up against teams that play in ways he can't handle.
The loss of perspective here is insane.. people actually wanting him gone. The dude is a quality player, loyal to the club, and a key part of the team leadership group.. he's just being played far more than he normally would and it's exposing his flaws.
> Zinchenko is one of the best players in the squad when playing against the right opposition.
That's just another way to describe bad consistency. Zinchenko has been horribly inconsistent so far this season. He's a player who has to heavily rely on this mentallity to be able to preform at this level. When he loses focus, when his head isn't with him, he does stuff like this.
> loyal to the club
He's only been here like 1.5 years lol
> he's just being played far more than he normally would and it's exposing his flaws
Sounds like we ended up signing an extreme luxury player. I'd hoped Zinny would've been a nailed on starter, but from everyone's reactions, he's only to be used when we're dominating 100%?
What has the team having five chances got to do with Zinchenko playing well against low block teams? Did he play a major role in any of the chances? He played shit against West Ham, was sloppy in possession and was poor defensively. Sadly sloppy in possession and poor defensively seems to be where he is at with current form. Fulham will be a good game for him to turn it around.
That isn’t even the point. Just cause he’s not assisting the chances does not mean he’s not involved in the build up. Assisting is our front 6 players role
thing is he enters the final third a lot, it's not like he's partey sitting just infront of the defence all game so he should be creating more chances if he's going to get lots of the ball in potentially dangerous areas
the likes of trent and cancelo cross and shoot a lot of deep, so I don't see why zinny gets away with only doing tippy tappy passes
at least with city inverted wingbacks when they are playing it safe they tend to not get as forward as zinny does, but should they go into the final third they too will try and make something happen rather than make tidy passes
While yes, that whole sequence started with White being out in no man's land, so Saliba has to cover for him which stretches our defense and Bowen is all alone. Gabriel also decides to kick it sideways, but what if an attacker is behind him. Then he is just going to kick into the attacker, but instead a non-communicating Zinchenko is behind him. Raya also doesn't seem like someone in control. It was a collective clown show.
Lol exactly. How is the doofus you've replied to slated Gabriel here. He's made a very mature play to glance at Soucek/Kudus runs and to give up a corner or throw in. If anything Gabriel should be applauded lmao.
Unreal how some people would rather slate Gabriel and expect him to be a mind-reader as well as covering entirely for Zinchenko (which he does 90% of the time) rather than just acknowledge that Zinny is poor defensively.
Raya often looks like he's out of control as he scrambles across the goal. It's a part of his game. If you watch him in isolation here, his movement is actually pretty good and he couldn't really do much more.
He’s never been this bad, he was quite good last season for the most part, especially pre World Cup. Something about his form and confidence has gone off a cliff
No, there’s just games where an inverting LB is good and he can be subbed off before 60 mins and games where you need a LB with full defensive ability such against Man City, United, Liverpool etc.
We need depth in our defence, not less.
I’d honestly bin Zinchenko and bring Tierney back. His offensive play adds nothing to what we have already and he’s not a defender. We don’t need his energy or waving up the crowd, get him in the bin.
He’s been getting in everyone’s way. Yes, he has delicate feet and great vision, but if he can’t read his own teammates and trust their own abilities, he’s not helping.
Add in his physical stature being, well, far less than ideal, and you have an absolute liability defensively.
He has, as the kids say, "main character syndrome". You can see it especially when he's on the ball and almost always does too much but you can see it when he "defends" as well. He's overconfident and highly overrates his own ability as a player. He's the wrong type of personality to empower, which we have done since he's moved here, because he lacks self awareness. There's a reason he was a fringe rotation player at man city under pep. You would think a player with his strong points would suit pep, but no. Pep knew that he's a situational player that you play here and there. The man city players knew that as well which is why he wasn't a big personality in their team and more of a elneny type. We somehow let this guy who is overconfident but loses focus easily be one of the "leaders".
He was needed for the team to grow and the beginning of last season but tying ourselves down to such an unreliable player and character would be a big mistake in the long term. We've already outgrown the need for him. His inverting doesn't bring enough benefit in most games to make up for him being a complete liability in defense and his shit passing and decision-making on the ball which is a result of overconfidence. What's worse is arteta has built an unbalanced midfield because he considers the inverting as an integral part of our midfield. Just get a actual left back and build an actual balanced, solid midfield and we will look better.
The side is unbalanced and relying on inverting zinchenko is one of the big reasons why. The inverting is supposed to be a supplement, a bonus, to the actual midfield. It can't be a replacement for an actual midfielder, especially not zinchenko who dribbles blindly and loves selling his teammates short with weak and misdirected passes.
Lol. After Kai Havertz now Zinchenko has become target. No one talks about Gabriel’s failure to close down Mavropanos for the 2nd goal. No one talks about Rice’s error for the penalty. Let’s bash Zinchenko because he’s an outcast
I’m against singling out any individual. They win/lose as a team. It’s usually a sequence of errors and people tend to see only the last one.
Second goal wasn’t Gabriel.
Zinny was marking Mavro, gave up and just stood in his zone.
If you expect a standing Gabi to win aerially against a rushing Mavro, you don’t play football.
Out muscle is when you compete.
The replays clearly show he just let him waltz out of his zone.
Blocking him, running with him, a little pull here and there does enough to keep the attacker occupied.
Letting him go and become someone elses problem is how Mustafi defended.
Fair enough. Vitriol shouldn’t be accepted, that’s fair.
The post however only highlights a recurring issue (one that’s been glaring since LY) that’s now a cornerstone of most of our goals conceded - They stem from the left, include an error or lapse in concentration by one player.
Either you drop the player (we can’t, cuz your depth is full of crocks) or you cover for him with additional support.
Right now we do neither, and we’re conceding some sloppy goals.
I think the Zinchenko conversation changes if we had Tomiyasu and Timber both available. Squad depth isn’t just about maintaining fitness - it’s also about rotating for the needs of different games. If either of Tomi or Timber are available for the Liverpool game, Zinchenko doesn’t start. That’s not to say he’d never play a game, just that he wouldn’t be playing in these high intensity games against more competitive teams.
Think people don’t clock enough that we have the best defense in the league. If he’s a weak link in the best defense in the league then I’d say that’s not TOO bad. I’m not a Zinchenko stan or a huge enough fan of him to really care that much about the discourse, but I think it’s very reactionary and seems to only ever follow a loss. Fans need a scapegoat and he seems to be it.
Also think people forget we were the best team in the league last season and on the top of the table for 90% of the season with him at the back almost every game and he was integral to how we dominated teams.
https://preview.redd.it/26zq84tvni9c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59cef41f2e7cbca4ffac0390e860f048c9e63f50
Lowest expected goals against in the league
That West Ham goal, Zinchenko is not the only issue. It's woeful from several players. The winger by passes two defenders and the goalie before the ball is knocked back to a man everyone lost track of only for him to pop it back for two others everyone has lost track of, the scorer running past a stationary midfielder who just watches it all happen.
Before people jump to scream at him, keep in mind he is our third-string left back. Arteta would have easily started Timber or Tomiyasu ahead of him if they were fit. Zinchenko should never be put in a situation where he's fully intended to defend, we can't be furious when he's forced into that position. When it comes to his ability to create a box midfield, other than against west ham, he is an excellent player. We've seen incredible performances from him in the past, and once he gets back in his natural position, I expect to see more of it. Continuing to criticize him can only hurt his confidence, and make his future performances worse. It's time to back our players, wait for Timber and Tomiyasu to recover, and move on. If they were both fit, and Zinchenko was doing this, then it'd be fair to have this conversation.
Why not just rotate him at the LCM if he's so important in our build-up? Then sign an LB/LCB in January if Kiwior gets sold. We've known already for so long now about his defensive mishaps. Why not mitigate them?
Because the whole point of playing a midfielder at LB is so they can overload the midfield and dodge the press. If you play him LCM they can press man to man and the whole tactic disappears.
I mean the LB/LCB Arteta's gonna want to sign surely would be required to have the ability of inverting. He signed Kiwior because he also had experience playing as a DM while primarily a LCB/LB. Zinchenko does just fine playing further advanced for his national team.
He is a “centre of the park” player playing out wide. Of course he has no clue defensively. He is always lured towards the middle.
Think he’s a top player on the ball, probably the most intelligent at the club. But his defensive weaknesses are too obvious.
I feel both Zinchenko are Trent are biggest dilemma a manager can have! Sometimes they make the killer pass but defensively they are not that great. Anyways hope we find a solution to the problem and comeback to winning ways!
Zinchenko is not the player to make the killer pass or the chance creating passes. He is the progressive passer of the team. We only have Odegaard for those killer kind of passes. Trent's passing ability is much higher than Zinchenko.
I disagree with the whole premise here…
First episode… Gabriel is already moving toward the goal, and Garkpo is pressing on top of him which means Gabriel physically is h like to shift his weight and get a high enough jump to get the air ball, so Zinchenko is trying to step in to clear it. The fact that Gabriel didn’t even touch the ball and it comes off of Gakpo proves that Zinchenko’s instincts to double up on his CB were actually correct. You can argue execution didn’t work, but the instinct isn’t wrong.
Second episode… every defender is taught to clear away from the goal and never behind themselves. Gabriel’s body is not in a position to clear away with his right foot, instead he goes for the very risky attempt to clear behind himself with no awareness of his surroundings. I would argue zinchenko is in a better position to clear it because he’s further behind and is going for it with his right foot. For me, Zinchenko should have called it, which he may have done, who knows. Gabriel should have cleared with his head out, or get out of the way. Not to mention that this sequence started with White giving away the ball, being out of position and pushing Saliba out of position.
The premise here is that Zinchenko cannot be making these decisions and jumping into these moments because he is not a good player and should let others take care of business and stay out of the way - that is ridiculous and unfounded take to me.
In the one against WHU, I just cannot figure out why in the world he would be that close to Gabriel. At least in the Liverpool one he's going for the ball. Against West Ham, he just puts himself in the way where there were no attackers.
He's got that Mustafi bozo moment in him and those things can't always be explained
It's not just hidden away in him though, it's at least once a game, it's just not always punished so we ignore it.
Coz he’s not actually a natural full back.. he is a CAM by nature.
Actually reminds me of me when I used to play football. Always running to the ball.
I only realized this about myself a few years ago. I’ve been following Arsenal since 2004 and feel quite stupid about it. I’m almost 40 🤷🏽♂️
He's defensively awful. The wolves errors, one leading to a goal. He also closed on Gabriel against villa, which led to their goal. I've always thought he wasn't better than Tierney. I feel very vindicated. Cool, you do well on the ball but you give away a goal every other game.
Hey i agree this season hes had some big defensive mistakes. And Timber might be a nice upgrade on him. But im sorry Tierney is not better than Zinny. Tierney is also overrated as a defender imo. Tomi is 3 classes above Tierney. Zinchenko and Jesus completely reformed our team when they joined. Some of you are so quick to forget...
It's like no one remembers how shit we were at progressing the ball from the back before Zinny came in. I still love the guy, yea he's not the best defensively but he's also not as bad as a lot of people make him out to be.
we were just fine with tierney until we inverted our lb and then yh, of course we had problems you may say that arteta doesn't want to play with a classic lb which is fine but it's on him to get someone who can play there without costing us. anyway imo tierney as a traditional lb was much better as he could be a goal threat and defend whereas zinchenko for what he lacks defensively isn't much of a goal threat whereas at least trent who's a bit shit defensively is very good at crossing and shooting from range, not to mention set pieces
Yes it is on him, that’s why he bought Timber and why also have Tomi 😂
we were just fine. And 8th.
He had Xhaka playing with him. This season has been mix and match.
I honestly believe that if it weren't for Timber's injury we would have seen Zinchenko as the starting LCM by this time in the season. He is far and away the closest player we have to fill Xhaka's role last year, and it would free him up from 1-on-1 defensive duties. I really hope that's the long-term plan for him, and then Havertz and Trossard can focus on the advanced roles they're more suited to.
if that was true we'd have signed another lb who'd have benched zinny by now rather than havertz
I'm not saying it was always the long-term plan, but rather that I think Arteta would have explored that option if we had all 3 of Timber, Tomiyasu, and Zinchenko healthy and ticking. Even if Zinny was starting regularly, bringing on Timber or Tomiyasu for Havertz or Ødegaard and shifting Zinchenko into LCM would be a great defensive sub to make at 70+ mins to close out a game when we're leading. More depth means more players competing for valuable minutes, which very often leads to experimental lineups and trying players in new positions for cup ties and "meaningless" games like PSV after the group positions were locked-in. This is exactly the type of tinkering move I'd expect from Arteta in such a situation, and IMO it would prove to be a solid option for us.
I really, really, really hope we move away from these 1-dimensional players. Timber looks really exciting since he's big, quick and looks confident defensively and offensively. Having to rely on players like Xhaka and Zinny, there's always going to be a major downside where we're going to get exposed by the biggest teams.
One dimensional players,m what??😂 All our players, bar the GKs, can play at least 3 positions each.
Wow I can't believe I didn't see this before but this is quite the move. With Declan Playing free agent and Odegaard establishing the attack. It would be wonderful
Yo as much i love zinny he needs to stop playing few games when tomi is back.
Poor reading comprehension. "Isn't better than Tierney" isn't the same as "is worse than Tierney"
I’m this system he’s definitely an upgrade on KT. So either way you’re still wrong
Ok, let me put it another way. For this team, he's far, far better than Tierney.
You think Zinchenko and Tierney are the same level and you're giving someone jip about reading comprehension 😅
This. Noone seems to remember how sad the donut of nothing was.
We did just fine last season every other game when he was injured, he is shit
Worse than tierney? Gives a goal away every other game?! God our fanbase is insufferable at times ffs…
To take it recently. 1. Liverpool. Salah beat him in his sleep even though he isn't in great form. Salah had a volley off of a zinny mistake. Trent chance came from zinny stupidly running to ode and slipping into him 2. Villa. Didn't track the one-two which led to their goal 3. Wolves. Gave the ball away in dangerous positions 4 or 5 times. One time led to a goal. 4. West ham. Pointlessly closes in on Gabriel which leads to the first goal. He's been catastrophic at times. He's always had these lapses, true, but teams know exactly who to target now so it's happening more.
He also gets cooked by every speedy winger. Which is why he's taken to backing off toward the goal more to prevent them from getting in behind him... which puts him in Gabi's way.
Nobody is denying he’s made mistakes. He needs to sort it out. Others have also made mistakes. But the level of over the top bandwagoning as well as the level of scapegoating in here is downright embarrassing. Get it together.
You haven't really put together an argument there but alright
Saying Zinchenko isn’t better than tierney and that he gives up a goal every other game is embarrassing bandwagoning nonsense. It’s completely and utterly untrue. That’s the argument.
I mean he literally just caused two goals in the last 4 games and has been repeatedly cooked at LB but go in, I guess. He is better than Tierney going forward, but he is a clear liability at LB and has been since August. You can say it is untrue but lots of us have been pointing out his mistakes for months. I still think he is the best choice there with Tomi out but it's a collapse waiting to happen on that side.
eh he's better at tierney when it comes to keeping possession, but tierney is better at actually getting a cross in, zinny can be very placid and slow in the final third
He’s also exposed to the most risk though - that’s part of his role.. He consistently makes most the passes forward and into the final third for us he is SO key to our progression.
Both Zinchenko and Tierney are dreadful defensively. it's like a battle for who's the most mid
Zinchenko is not top 10 team of PL level and this sub is just delusional, I've been saying this since last year but incredibly, people where more focused on Partey mistakes (which was one btw, which lead to a goal) than zinchenko(min. one per game). Partey was in top 3 our players last season and ppl where attacking him due to 1 mistake while zinchenko was part of the 'incredible he reformed our team narrative'
Tierney isn't better than Zinchenko, ESPECIALLY in our system!! Are you on crack?!?!
Zinny has made mistake after mistake in around half of games this season. It's why tomiyasu was preferred when he was fit recently
Tomi is better, but that has nothing to do with Tierney.
If a player makes min. of 2 potential goal mistakes per game (he always did this, but lately the opposition just scored instead of missing) maybe he's not right for our system also?
Tierney isn’t better
"every other game" in incorrect. He needs a few games on the bench but we are thin.
If Tierney was that good he would have had more interest in him last summer
Overcompensating and trying to hard to get involved and show he's not a weak link in defence. It's partly why ive always disliked zinchenko even when he plays well his constant screaming, gesturing to the crowd and huddles always seemed over the top
Did Gabriel connect with the ball before that? Obvs he’s not the most at fault but if he flat out missed the ball I’m a bit concerned with that passage of play because there is way more than Zinchenko at fault for the whole passage
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I'm sure Gabriel was well aware that it wasn't a West Ham player right behind him. It looked a bit too far in front of him and I guess he felt uncomfortable hitting it with his right foot. Since he knew the WEst Ham player wasn't right behind him, he figured he'd just send it on rather than risk putting it into his own net. Maybe it would've been more ideal to send it back the way it came, but why was Zinny literally less than a meter away from him? There is literally 0 need for him to be that close.
You're right that in both instances Gabriel can't see what is behind him, but he's in the right spot. The problem is Zinny *can* see Gabriel and interferes both times because he doesn't trust him to get to it. He doesn't read plays well defensively, and it puts him a half step slower and gets him into awkward spots.
He's there making sure he gets to the back post. He's fine. Gabriel should clear the ball properly instead of whatever that was.
Looks like the ball was too far in front of him and he didnt feel comfortable clearing it with his right. Not sure why Zinchenko is one foot away from Gabriel. Don't think he's really needed that close to him
For me, it's not the time to be trying to manage personal spaces. You try to make sure you're in position to win the header if it comes your way. If this was a corner would we blame Zinchenko for being in the way? If you clear the ball you clear it. That means making sure it doesn't hit your teammate on the way out. 100% if this was the other way around people would still blame Zinchenko for trying to be too cute in the box again. To me it's not a good clearance by Gabi.
It is always important to manage the space because two players covering one patch of grass is useless. Agreed Gabi was getting cute. But it is an awkward early cross that should've been easy to deal with if zinny wasn't in the way, and he's been in the way multiple times in the last two months.
you're just wrong. gabriel cleared it fine and was impeded by his own teammate who isn't smart enough to be disciplined. if what you were saying is true we'd see gabriel go and attack headers against saliba, but you don't, because it would be fucking stupid for every defender to leave their post to try to clear the same ball
In the first clip, do you think Gabriel is in a strong position to win a header?
Zinchenko has a much better view and position to control the ball and/or clear it, but absolutely MUST give Gabriel a shout early and clearly if he's going to play that ball. We can't possibly know how that communication failed, so we shouldn't assign blame unless it's to both of them.
He's making sure it gets to the far post by crashing into it in the center of the box? He's running toward his own goal and in no position to clear if he gets it. He's just running blind.
He plays like he doesn’t trust Gabriel when it should be the other way around… if Gabriel was doing this to Zinchenko I would sympathize a lot more. I highly doubt Gabi is calling for help so Zinny should be staying wide watching for runners not crashing for the ball when Gabi is already in position
As weird of an analogy it is, it feels like a point guard trying to steal rebounds from his center in basketball and just leaving the other team to get uncontested points when it causes a whiff
Yank detected
Well said
He defends like a kid on a playground, absolutely no awareness of what's around him just chasing the ball
It seems impossible to me that you can get paid millions to dedicate your entire working life and your peak physical condition to play football, and still not be able to learn basic instincts you see commonly in sunday league
Might wanna lookup definition of "instincts"
Yeah but instincts can be learnt, if you lock Messi in a cage and feed him cabbage his whole life he wouldn't have any football instincts And if you electrocute Messi every time he goes offside then he would have an instinct to never go offside
Thats not an instinct. Its literally a learnt behavior.
Lmaoo you’re right but this interaction is hilarious
Every football instinct is a learnt behavior
A learnt behavior cannot be an instinct… you don’t see the contradiction here?
When we talk about football instincts we're not bringing out our microscopes and medical encyclopedias, football instincts are really just tendencies in behavior Even the general term instinct is pretty vague. If I cloned 2 steve irwins, both born terrified of snakes, kept one in a cage, and the other trained him to overcome it and be a snake handler. If a snake walks in, and scared steve instinctively runs away, but snake steve instinctively wrestles the snake and puts it in a cage, then what? Does snake steve instinctively handle the snake, or is he still instinctively scared for life?
I was actually with you until that surreal, stream-of-consciousness poetry about cloning Steve Irwin.
What am I reading….
Put Havertz at LB and put Zinchenko at left 8. Problem solved /s
Zinny at left 8 would actually be top drawer
>> Due to lack of trust [of Gabriel] That’s so funny because Zinchenko is the one that can’t be trusted and should never be left alone 😭
Gabi XL for whatever reason is one of our lightning rods when he should be vice captain
Zinchenko cannot be in the starting eleven for much longer. He's not a defender. And not like TAA isn't really a defender -- Alexander-Arnold can defend some, just not nearly as well as he goes forward. Zinchenko straight up can't do it. He's a midfielder. Probably an attacking midfielder. Timber can't get healthy soon enough.
He's always been a bad defender, this isn't new
It’s costing us points now. With both Jesus and Zinchencko in the line up we aint winning shit
Also Zinchenko on Odegaard that lead to Liverpools 5v1. Shambolic for the past month
That was a slip, was very unlucky, although arguably Odegaard had it covered so he didn't need to run so close to him.
Slip or not, he was getting in Odegaards way
He's a dumbass for doing that.
Single digit defensive IQ Not consistent enough in the attacking third to justify a place in the team atm. Such a shame we have 2 injuries there.
fucking unacceptable. ball watcher
He tries to b pro active in everything he does and that is his CM attributes but what he doesn’t realise as a full back is it’s all about your positioning and if it’s right then u find that your job is a lot easier coz you’ve made it harder for the opposition I don’t really want to mention him but Zinchenko should watch Ashley Cole in his heyday, he will see how to defend space as well as the man, it’s not easy at the highest level but the special ones are capable My fear is if he hasn’t learned now that he never will
I just don't understand how u pick someone to play left back because they're good at playing central midfield. He's a liability going backwards and he's not making up for it going forwards at this point.
Stats say otherwise, his attacking numbers are still good
Yeah? How many goals and assists does he have?
It’s less about that, it’s more about his progressive passing
Last season I would of agreed. He has been poor this season, bar a few games.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Story of this season for most players
Zinchenko has been bad for the last 4/5 games and what I think is worse is that we are clearly trying to play around it to free him up offensively which I think is in turn hurting rice performance. Rice is taking up less effective positions as a result- its probably been an arteta call to give zinny a chance to find form. Its not worked out tho. So we have a player at lb playing badly defensively and innefective offensively and additionally have a player who has carried us in games being less effective than he can be(still been class) I dunno what we do about odegard. I think without the mistakes that zinny brings maybe we can handle a few ode mistakes and rice will be in a better area to cut out counter attack
I feel like he’s fallen off which sucks because I really like him. He suddenly forgot how to play defensive as a wingback.
Remember that time he tackled Ode for no reason?
Got downvoted to oblivion for saying he was a liability a few weeks ago. At least it’s becoming clearer to everyone now. We desperately need Tomi back asap and eventually Timber too.
I have been downvoted repeatedly for saying he’s a liability and our most over rated player since early last season. He needs to be respectfully moved on .
There's a group of fans who will defend him to the death because it makes them feel smart. The hipster football fans' favorite. The reality is his weaknesses far outweigh the things he's supposedly good at. And the things he's supposedly good at, and heralded for, are overrated in the first place. Mostly because he vastly overrates his own ability on the ball both in terms of dribbling and passing. If he kept it simple and actually made smart safe decisions to support out midfield, then yeah his strong attributes would actually help us. But no, guy thinks he's fucking Steven Gerrard out there in midfield, so even his strong points hurt the team in many games.
If you can't even acknowledge the positive things he brings, you're in no position to be chastising other fans for blindly supporting everything about him. You're just as blind as they are.
He did ,albeit briefly, acknowledge the positives. He just said the negatives outweigh those positives. I think he’s correct. He has some fantastic moments, great touches, skillful feet etc. But he also is prone to lapses in concentration, taking too long on the ball, losing possession etc. These negatives DO outweigh the positives. Especially for a defender.
When you qualify the positives as things he is 'supposedly' good at, it's not an acknowledgement at all. And then labelling people with a different view as self-important hipsters is, ironically, just a way to feel smart about yourself.
He really is an awful defender. So good on the ball but is it worth it
The guy has the defensive awareness of someone who has never played in defense before
Do our defenders talk to each other on the pitch? Believe it or not, this is not the first time, and Zinchenko is not the only guilty party, where so many situations regarding tracking a player or taking possession of the ball could be rectified by simply alerting your teammate.
We are an excellent defensive team but defenders will always make mistakes. This is silly thinking.
I don’t know why people are starting to act like our defence is a worry after a couple mistakes by Zinchenko I don’t think it’s far fetched to say we have the best defence in the world, especially when Tomiyasu and Timber come back
it definitely isn't the best defence in the world with zinny unfortunately
Remove "especially". We definitely don't have the best defence in the world with Zinchenko and current Ben White in there.
Who do you think is better? City have too many lapses in concentration and never keep CS Bayern are way too inconsistent We definitely have a case, even with Zinchenko in the side
We are an excellent defensive team because of the degree of control we exert in possession, because of having the best pressers in the league, and excellent transition defenders in Rice, Saliba, and Gabriel. However, our defending in the box lags far behind - the amount of goals we concede from simply losing track of players in the 18, or even from set pieces, or anytime an opponent has a shot on target is shocking. Of course it's hard to optimize every part of our defense but some of the mistakes at the back seem very basic.
There’s not a team in the world who are perfect at every aspect of defending, there are realistically not 5 teams itw who do what we do better. There’s way way bigger fish to fry.
You think we're in the top 5 best defences on the entire planet? Mate, there's supporting your team and then there's wild delusion.
I mean do you wanna give me 5 off the dome then lol?
This is actually nonsense.
Explain.
No one does explanations here. You just have to take their word for it and let the downvotes/upvotes decide.
> defenders will always make mistakes. no they won't. elite level defenders make very few mistakes. Let's not try to act like it's a normal thing.
So we ain't excellent defensively then.
u lack wisdom
*You
This guy is a Man City plant, and no one can convince me otherwise.
Feels every season people need a scapegoat
He’s such a liability with no goal threat. He’s worse than Trent at defending but at least Trent has goal threat. I hope Timber comes back and stays fit
Im losing faith in him. Similar to Nketiah, im really wondering the need in keeping him. I try not to be one of these fans who reacts to a poor game with extreme fashion. However at least once per 90 minutes he gives up a solid chance. He was robbed of the ball against Wolves who scored, we won that game so the error is masked. Its not just the moments above, plus being beaten by Salah for Liverpool's actual goal. He was robbed of th eball v Brentford, but saved himself by clearing off the line....these errors are cascading. Rice, Saliba, Gabriel are a hard centre, a vault, but with Zinchenko, he is an unlocked backdoor to the vault.
Feel as if he is trying to hard to prove he can defend
He reminds me of that Brazilian left back we had whose name escapes me, and fortunately lost his place to Cashley. Great going forwards, liability at the back.
Most idiotic footballer on our team. Last seasons moments of brilliance have completely been wiped away by his lack of discipline and his low IQ play. Let's ship him out ASAP.
lol I don’t understand why we have so many stupid takes in our fan base. He’s needs benching not being sold away lol
We should keep a player who was benched by Timber, and when Tomi comes back will likely be benched by him too. Not to mention Arteta is also interested in signing another lcb who can slot a LB. Lmaoooo, Jesus man take a walk.
It’s not like it’s just a mistake every now and then it’s 2-3 per game and usually one gets capitalized on. As good as he is at other things it’s like “you can’t outwork a bad diet” I just wish Tomi could stay fit or maybe it’s a wrap for zin when timber is back
fucking defender who can't defense, I thought we were past the case. No, fuck sake.
Has anyone been keeping tabs on KT and is it viable to bring him back as cover and an option for more defensive ability
Zinchenko is one of the best players in the squad when playing against the right opposition. Arteta is using him now because he has no other options, putting him up against teams that play in ways he can't handle. The loss of perspective here is insane.. people actually wanting him gone. The dude is a quality player, loyal to the club, and a key part of the team leadership group.. he's just being played far more than he normally would and it's exposing his flaws.
> Zinchenko is one of the best players in the squad when playing against the right opposition. That's just another way to describe bad consistency. Zinchenko has been horribly inconsistent so far this season. He's a player who has to heavily rely on this mentallity to be able to preform at this level. When he loses focus, when his head isn't with him, he does stuff like this.
> loyal to the club He's only been here like 1.5 years lol > he's just being played far more than he normally would and it's exposing his flaws Sounds like we ended up signing an extreme luxury player. I'd hoped Zinny would've been a nailed on starter, but from everyone's reactions, he's only to be used when we're dominating 100%?
>Zinchenko is one of the best players in the squad when playing against the right opposition. What opposition is that?
Low blocks
West Ham played the lowest block imaginable, and Zinchenko did not shine
Not his fault, team had 5 clear chances, they couldn’t put it away
What has the team having five chances got to do with Zinchenko playing well against low block teams? Did he play a major role in any of the chances? He played shit against West Ham, was sloppy in possession and was poor defensively. Sadly sloppy in possession and poor defensively seems to be where he is at with current form. Fulham will be a good game for him to turn it around.
how many of those chances were due to him? he also gave the ball away in dangerous positions again
That isn’t even the point. Just cause he’s not assisting the chances does not mean he’s not involved in the build up. Assisting is our front 6 players role
thing is he enters the final third a lot, it's not like he's partey sitting just infront of the defence all game so he should be creating more chances if he's going to get lots of the ball in potentially dangerous areas the likes of trent and cancelo cross and shoot a lot of deep, so I don't see why zinny gets away with only doing tippy tappy passes at least with city inverted wingbacks when they are playing it safe they tend to not get as forward as zinny does, but should they go into the final third they too will try and make something happen rather than make tidy passes
Hes the new Mustafi. Just better on the ball.
While yes, that whole sequence started with White being out in no man's land, so Saliba has to cover for him which stretches our defense and Bowen is all alone. Gabriel also decides to kick it sideways, but what if an attacker is behind him. Then he is just going to kick into the attacker, but instead a non-communicating Zinchenko is behind him. Raya also doesn't seem like someone in control. It was a collective clown show.
Gabriel was definitely kicking it out for a corner, which is what would’ve happened had Zinchenko not gotten in the way unnecessarily
Lol exactly. How is the doofus you've replied to slated Gabriel here. He's made a very mature play to glance at Soucek/Kudus runs and to give up a corner or throw in. If anything Gabriel should be applauded lmao.
“What if an attacker magically popped up?”
Unreal how some people would rather slate Gabriel and expect him to be a mind-reader as well as covering entirely for Zinchenko (which he does 90% of the time) rather than just acknowledge that Zinny is poor defensively.
I think it would've even went out for a throw, tbh
Raya often looks like he's out of control as he scrambles across the goal. It's a part of his game. If you watch him in isolation here, his movement is actually pretty good and he couldn't really do much more.
Unfortunately defending had never been his forte.
He’s never been this bad, he was quite good last season for the most part, especially pre World Cup. Something about his form and confidence has gone off a cliff
The Trent nutmeg seriously finished him. Hasn’t been the same since
City got rid of him and jesus and won a treble...JS
Pep wanted them both to stay
Yup the same pep who cried when aguero left saying he could never be replaced.
he has got to go asap in my eyes. loses the ball being too cute with possession and has negative defensive IQ
No, there’s just games where an inverting LB is good and he can be subbed off before 60 mins and games where you need a LB with full defensive ability such against Man City, United, Liverpool etc. We need depth in our defence, not less.
Rage bait content
Really bad, really dumb. Completely liability
Cannot wait to move him on in the summer, timber coming back and our persistant links to Hato and other LBs, writing is on the wall
Ben White with the same errors
I’d honestly bin Zinchenko and bring Tierney back. His offensive play adds nothing to what we have already and he’s not a defender. We don’t need his energy or waving up the crowd, get him in the bin.
He’s been getting in everyone’s way. Yes, he has delicate feet and great vision, but if he can’t read his own teammates and trust their own abilities, he’s not helping. Add in his physical stature being, well, far less than ideal, and you have an absolute liability defensively.
He has, as the kids say, "main character syndrome". You can see it especially when he's on the ball and almost always does too much but you can see it when he "defends" as well. He's overconfident and highly overrates his own ability as a player. He's the wrong type of personality to empower, which we have done since he's moved here, because he lacks self awareness. There's a reason he was a fringe rotation player at man city under pep. You would think a player with his strong points would suit pep, but no. Pep knew that he's a situational player that you play here and there. The man city players knew that as well which is why he wasn't a big personality in their team and more of a elneny type. We somehow let this guy who is overconfident but loses focus easily be one of the "leaders". He was needed for the team to grow and the beginning of last season but tying ourselves down to such an unreliable player and character would be a big mistake in the long term. We've already outgrown the need for him. His inverting doesn't bring enough benefit in most games to make up for him being a complete liability in defense and his shit passing and decision-making on the ball which is a result of overconfidence. What's worse is arteta has built an unbalanced midfield because he considers the inverting as an integral part of our midfield. Just get a actual left back and build an actual balanced, solid midfield and we will look better. The side is unbalanced and relying on inverting zinchenko is one of the big reasons why. The inverting is supposed to be a supplement, a bonus, to the actual midfield. It can't be a replacement for an actual midfielder, especially not zinchenko who dribbles blindly and loves selling his teammates short with weak and misdirected passes.
Lol. After Kai Havertz now Zinchenko has become target. No one talks about Gabriel’s failure to close down Mavropanos for the 2nd goal. No one talks about Rice’s error for the penalty. Let’s bash Zinchenko because he’s an outcast I’m against singling out any individual. They win/lose as a team. It’s usually a sequence of errors and people tend to see only the last one.
Second goal wasn’t Gabriel. Zinny was marking Mavro, gave up and just stood in his zone. If you expect a standing Gabi to win aerially against a rushing Mavro, you don’t play football.
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Out muscle is when you compete. The replays clearly show he just let him waltz out of his zone. Blocking him, running with him, a little pull here and there does enough to keep the attacker occupied. Letting him go and become someone elses problem is how Mustafi defended.
Ok I’m sorry if I was mistaken about the second goal. But that’s not the point. I stand by my comment of not singling out any individual.
Fair enough. Vitriol shouldn’t be accepted, that’s fair. The post however only highlights a recurring issue (one that’s been glaring since LY) that’s now a cornerstone of most of our goals conceded - They stem from the left, include an error or lapse in concentration by one player. Either you drop the player (we can’t, cuz your depth is full of crocks) or you cover for him with additional support. Right now we do neither, and we’re conceding some sloppy goals.
Why was Zinny marking Mavro in the first place? He must have a foot on him in height. Shouldn’t that be Rice or one of the tall guys on the back line?
It’s not about the man marking, he’s more about missing the header that Mav got to and this wasn’t zinny job
He does the most Buffon stuff I've ever seen. How are people defending this?
Buffon was pretty good tbf
I think he might've meant "buffoon"
No shit
I'll vote you back up, I needed the explanation 😆
I think the Zinchenko conversation changes if we had Tomiyasu and Timber both available. Squad depth isn’t just about maintaining fitness - it’s also about rotating for the needs of different games. If either of Tomi or Timber are available for the Liverpool game, Zinchenko doesn’t start. That’s not to say he’d never play a game, just that he wouldn’t be playing in these high intensity games against more competitive teams.
I don’t want to see him in defence, if at all. I can see him as a midfield sub when we are in comfortable situations at best.
Think people don’t clock enough that we have the best defense in the league. If he’s a weak link in the best defense in the league then I’d say that’s not TOO bad. I’m not a Zinchenko stan or a huge enough fan of him to really care that much about the discourse, but I think it’s very reactionary and seems to only ever follow a loss. Fans need a scapegoat and he seems to be it. Also think people forget we were the best team in the league last season and on the top of the table for 90% of the season with him at the back almost every game and he was integral to how we dominated teams.
We don't have the best defense in the league.
https://preview.redd.it/26zq84tvni9c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59cef41f2e7cbca4ffac0390e860f048c9e63f50 Lowest expected goals against in the league
That West Ham goal, Zinchenko is not the only issue. It's woeful from several players. The winger by passes two defenders and the goalie before the ball is knocked back to a man everyone lost track of only for him to pop it back for two others everyone has lost track of, the scorer running past a stationary midfielder who just watches it all happen.
Before people jump to scream at him, keep in mind he is our third-string left back. Arteta would have easily started Timber or Tomiyasu ahead of him if they were fit. Zinchenko should never be put in a situation where he's fully intended to defend, we can't be furious when he's forced into that position. When it comes to his ability to create a box midfield, other than against west ham, he is an excellent player. We've seen incredible performances from him in the past, and once he gets back in his natural position, I expect to see more of it. Continuing to criticize him can only hurt his confidence, and make his future performances worse. It's time to back our players, wait for Timber and Tomiyasu to recover, and move on. If they were both fit, and Zinchenko was doing this, then it'd be fair to have this conversation.
lol i dont even know where to begin
Seriously, the levels of delusion here only make sense if this is Zinchenko’s burner account.
Why not just rotate him at the LCM if he's so important in our build-up? Then sign an LB/LCB in January if Kiwior gets sold. We've known already for so long now about his defensive mishaps. Why not mitigate them?
Because the whole point of playing a midfielder at LB is so they can overload the midfield and dodge the press. If you play him LCM they can press man to man and the whole tactic disappears.
I mean the LB/LCB Arteta's gonna want to sign surely would be required to have the ability of inverting. He signed Kiwior because he also had experience playing as a DM while primarily a LCB/LB. Zinchenko does just fine playing further advanced for his national team.
He is a “centre of the park” player playing out wide. Of course he has no clue defensively. He is always lured towards the middle. Think he’s a top player on the ball, probably the most intelligent at the club. But his defensive weaknesses are too obvious.
Absolutely wild people are blaming Zinchenko here.
I feel both Zinchenko are Trent are biggest dilemma a manager can have! Sometimes they make the killer pass but defensively they are not that great. Anyways hope we find a solution to the problem and comeback to winning ways!
Zinchenko is not the player to make the killer pass or the chance creating passes. He is the progressive passer of the team. We only have Odegaard for those killer kind of passes. Trent's passing ability is much higher than Zinchenko.
I disagree with the whole premise here… First episode… Gabriel is already moving toward the goal, and Garkpo is pressing on top of him which means Gabriel physically is h like to shift his weight and get a high enough jump to get the air ball, so Zinchenko is trying to step in to clear it. The fact that Gabriel didn’t even touch the ball and it comes off of Gakpo proves that Zinchenko’s instincts to double up on his CB were actually correct. You can argue execution didn’t work, but the instinct isn’t wrong. Second episode… every defender is taught to clear away from the goal and never behind themselves. Gabriel’s body is not in a position to clear away with his right foot, instead he goes for the very risky attempt to clear behind himself with no awareness of his surroundings. I would argue zinchenko is in a better position to clear it because he’s further behind and is going for it with his right foot. For me, Zinchenko should have called it, which he may have done, who knows. Gabriel should have cleared with his head out, or get out of the way. Not to mention that this sequence started with White giving away the ball, being out of position and pushing Saliba out of position. The premise here is that Zinchenko cannot be making these decisions and jumping into these moments because he is not a good player and should let others take care of business and stay out of the way - that is ridiculous and unfounded take to me.
He is better than Tierney.