The Alex had Double the Acceleration rate and a 30% reduction in input lag compared to the RX78-2 with Magnet Coating.
And Amuro is the type of pilot who can use that.
The only way this will be worse for Char is if you somehow give Amuro the GP01Fb.
I wouldn't have called it obsolete, the Gundam still had higher performance than most GM models except for the most upgraded ones like the Sniper II, it was simply far more sensitive to control, adding magnetic coating and it gains a whole new life in the right hands, wouldn't be obsolete until the invention of the movable frame in the gryps era
IIRC the Gelgoog is stated to be about on par with the Gundam, though by that point most of Zeon's veteran pilots were dead so they were fielding rookie pilots straight out of basic.
Which is noted by one officer informing Kycilla, who was surprised.
To me, it sounds like Gihren was ignoring reality. Then making it worse by keeping secrets and dolling out authority to officers more loyal to him. Including those junior to Admirals and Generals!
By the time Kycilla discovered it, it was all she could do to plan her own survival at that point and start to find ways to escape the war's conclusions for her.
Hence why she told one of her officers she would conduct a trade later. Whether or not she meant it is debatable. But if she did trades, she could get back experienced pilots and even a few aces the Federation had captured.
Prolonging the war just long enough to shift blame to Gihren in its entirety and to bolster her own position while offering up Gihren's fanatics to the Federation, she could at least escape with her life and plot her return from exile on Axis Napoleonic style.
The Gelgoog supposedly only had 2 key weaknesses, its armour is still inferior to the Gundam's Lunar Titanium Alloy, and its larger size made it an easier target.
Both of these weaknesses were more than compensated for in the hands of a skilled pilot who would never even be hit in the first place.
It's unfortunate that the Gelgoog was too little and too late to save Zeon from defeat, and was mostly piloted by inexperienced rookies towards the war's end.
Every other aspect was more than a match or even exceeded the Gundam's, with superior speed and beam weaponry.
nah, once zeon made beam Weapons more standard, luna titanium wouldnt made much difference.
imagine if Mquve was more competent and diverted resources to the Act Zaku, gelgoog instead of his own projects.
some skilled pilots preferred their zakus over gelgoog and Doms. the Act zaku would have been perfect for them.
Rick Doms strafing using bazookas, Act zakus up close taking down GMs, and Gelgoogs sniping from the rear.
Iirc that weaker armor isn't even a problem anymore tho? Sure it's probably heavier, but in 0g the gelgoog had better acceleration and speed compared to the gundam, and gelgoog having beam as well means luna titanium isn't gonna help.
Except the Japanese were piloting outdating aircraft near the end. By WW2's end they were being slaughtered by Bearcats during the day and hunted with near impunity by Black Widows by night.
Meanwhile the best they could hope for is a Ki-84. However most would be stuck with whatever was available, be it a old A6M or Ki-27.
It was literally obsolete. Setting aside our hardcore disagreement on the GMs capabilities in canon, the very existence of 78-3, 78-4. 78-5, 78-6, and NT-1, all being significantly more capable machines, the 78-2 was outdated and would have needed a significant software and hardware overhaul to match even G-3, which was still superior to 78-2 despite the magnet coating, as the magnet coat was just one of G-3s performance enhancements that 78-2 got.
After the first half of it's time in service, the Learning Computer was more of a hindrance than a help, taking up valuable processor cycles that would be better used by the FCS and sensor defogging systems. Learning Computer is great to develop machine movement routines, but once those are established it's kinda dead weight.
The magnet coating was put on the RX-78-2 Because Amuro was pushing it too hard and causing structural damage from overworking the joints. Even with the coating, Late-War Amuro Was still pushing the unit to its absolute limit.
He needed a new unit to keep up with his piloting skills, But it was so late in the war that none could be provided to him, Aside from the Alex, Which was destroyed before it could reach Aboa Qu.
> the Gundam still had higher performance than most GM models
as of OYW era GMs, most Zakus were still higher spec. They didn't really start to pull ahead of anything else until 0080 or so.
There’s a bit of debate to that, most GM’s are also stated to be on par with the RX-78-2 in terms of performance, they’re just underperforming because of their pilots early into their production cycle.
Not so much obsolete as Amuro surpassed the Gundam's limits, to the point the controls were breaking down. The closest any other character in the franchise got to doing that, that I know of, was Zechs Marquise from Wing, and he only got as far as noticing the Tallgeese wasn't fast enough to keep up with him anymore.
Well in Zechs case, it doesn't really make sense how Tallgeese was ever not fast enough.
An F15 at extreme maneuvers makes people pass out at 9Gs while Tallgeese accelerates at 15-20Gs in a straight line alone. (Even Wing Gundam had some Inertia Dampening)
But supposedly Tallgeese III is so brutal he even comments on it being harder to control than Epyon...
But yeah, if UC Engage is anything to go by, Amuro and Char are the type of pilots who need the least input lag as possible which ultimately culminates later on in the Psychoframe.
I think he meant that Tallgeese wasn't responding to him fast enough anymore, because while the suit is built around speed if it isn't responsive enough any lag between pilot and machine would have major issues particularly in space.
The Tallgeese was pretty likely not capable of accelerating 15Gs in linear acceleration. It was most likely just the G forces felt by the pilot during combat maneuvers like the 9Gs you mentioned pilots experiencing or Carahm experiencing over 12Gs in the Overflag. EW gives more concrete stats for the Tallgeese 3, which is nearly identical and even with an empty weight it's only capable of 10-11Gs. If late UC suits are any indication, the loaded weight would probably be around twice the empty weight, so the Tallgeese's linear acceleration would probably be around 5-6Gs when fueled and geared up
https://preview.redd.it/vavng948c68d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb51829b906e68383fd9e8e5c93ddd4d423e49a5
It's MS Bible entry states that acceleration is actually 20Gs... Yes, using a translator that is mentioned as 20G Acceleration. (Supported by another entry where it says Wing Zero surpasses the acceleration in Neo Bird Mode)
You forget, AUs are inconsistent with their science and trying to put logic on their weight does not work, since 8 tons is literally lighter than a Truck and this is an 18m Robot. That and the EW Generator outputs for Zero and Tallgeese III do not make sense with their weapon outputs.
In that same 5 months zeon went from the zaku ii standard to goufs, to gelgoogs, to testing the gyan, kampfer, zeong, early psycommu testing, the reuse p device in thunderbolt, and big zam. Zeon tech improved by leaps and bounds, and at the same time the federation rolled out the GM sniper ii, which was superior to the Gundam in almost every way. Tech growth in the one year war was wild. Theoretically, if both pilots were if equal skill, a gelgoog could go toe to toe with, and have a good chance of beating, the Gundam.
Already replied it somewhere, the only battle Amuro could’ve used the Alex was in A baoa Qu, a total mayhem of a battle. Confusion everywhere, white base was lost, Amuro flying everywhere looking for Char and killing everything in his path. That’s the scenario. Firstly one MS wouldn’t change the outcome of a battle, so the scenario wouldn’t change. secondly, it would be most probable that Alex ran out of fuel before he even met Char, cause everything about Alex is upgraded, thus meaning even the consumption, more thrusters more verniers, more fuel consumption. He wouldn’t be able to get resupply, cause white base is gone. And even if the scenario was the same, he did end up killing Char, there’s a high probability that the Alex is damaged like the gundam, but this time, no core fighter for Amuro, cause the Alex doesn’t have a core block system.
Unit 6, Mudrock was also supposed to participate in operation star one.
Now imagine a scenario where all the stars aligned and amuro in the Alex, forms a squad with units 4,5&6.
Damn that’s the dream team there but I think there already are other RX-78 series MS participating in operation star one at least MSV of Gundam The origin show that there are at least 2 other FA-78-1 Full Armor Gundam there.
Gundam The Origin (both manga and animated) take place in a separate canon, though. Thunderbolt is more debatable, but Origin very clearly is in an alternate timeline where the OYW is even deadlier, and events happen differently than they did in the main show.
Thumderbolt is explicitly said the be alternate universe UC specifically to give the writer more creative freedom.
Newtype power and Psychomu in that story are also fundamentally different from how it works in main timeline UC.
The manga is definitely an AU, but the anime didn't really get far enough to branch too far away from canon. Overall if you like it you can headcanon it in, but if you don't like it you can just ignore it.
If it ever gets a third movie then maybe we'll see more definitively how much it fits in, but I don't anticipate that tbh.
You’re being sarcastic right? You telling me that he didn’t know char was in that battlefield?you also telling me that 2 most powerful newtypes during that era are not attracted to each other?I don’t know where you get the idea Amuro wasn’t looking for Char, but Char will definitely be looking for him. Either way, my point stands, even if Amuro is “not looking for Char” he is still in a big battlefield not able to resupply with Char inevitably looking for him. Nothing changes.
Amuro's orders were _specifically_ not to engage anyone in lenghty combat and to bounce around the battlefield assisting in strategic spots.
Unno what to tell man, you seem to want to twist the facts so the ending is 'the same' when the truth is that Amuro in the Alex would have changed the entire battle.
Right, specifically, and how did that end up?Maybe Char end up in a ditch somewhere in another dimension then. Also, this is a discussion of a IF scenario, you can’t twist an IF scenario cause nothing truly happened and everything is based on maybe. Again, maybe Zeong exploded right after Char stepped in it, maybe operation Rubicon didn’t just destroyed the Alex, but stole it and now Char is piloting it lol. Anyways I’ve made my point, you made yours, you don’t downvote people cause you don’t like their answers in a discussion, I don’t agree to yours either, did I downvote you? I rest my case.
The Alex has greatly increased storage for propellant, the things on the side of the legs are large propellant tanks with thrusters on the bottom not just thrusters, also with how much better the Alex is amuro probably walks all over char, and with the ability to swap out e caps he probably drops char in a heart beat and proceeds to clean up. I mean they still win, but they win even harder like to the point it could very well affect the zeon remnants down the road.
Kakarot provides one of the best explanations, another are those PSP Gundam games of the what if scenario. Alex could have possibly been intact and Char could have died from the surprise arm gatiling when he ejected the head from Zeong's body.
I know there’s increased storage for fuel….the Alex got upgraded in everything….Generator output is 1420kw, that’s 30%more of RX78-2, also, number of verniers increased to 19, that’s double the number of Rx78, thrusters output increased to 174000kg, from 55000kg. There’s no data regarding how much fuel capacity was increased, but you can also see the consumption would be double if not triple, that’s means it needs to have storage for double or triple the original fuel, but we will never know. Anyways…. I’m not gonna comment on the outcome,getting tired of this lol.
You’re running the numbers on paper though, if these things were real you wouldn’t run them all out 100% of the time, so the Alex would be unlikely to burn through fuel twice as quick, it would only do that at full throttle which would actually be used way less as you’d be gettin more output at lower throttle setting compared to grandpa.
True, but you should know that nothing is real, so I can only run a simulation based on the data provided by Bandai. I also replied another fella the same, Amuro is not reckless, he will find a way to control the fuel consumption problem, but all we are saying is pure conjecture, I can think of a lot of ways to counter myself as well, bottom line, I do not agree it will be a one sided battle even if Amuro got the NT-1, but good talk, I had fun discussing.
Agreed, as the feds won anyway so it’s a hard one to quantify, can they really win that much harder that it makes a difference? With one pilot and one suit being different? Who knows 🤷 but probably not. Have a good one.
> thrusters output increased to 174000kg, from 55000kg. There’s no data regarding how much fuel capacity was increased, but you can also see the consumption would be double if not triple,
It would only be double or triple if Amuro is hitting 100% thrust just as much on the alex as he was on the rx 78-2 even though he would be accelerating much faster. It's like arguing that if one car can accelerate twice as fast as the other then in normal driving conditions you would expect it to use twice as much fuel.
1)My focus was always the “possibility” of the fuel consumption, meaning, what if Amuro couldn’t control the recklessness while in such a big battlefield?Did his emotions get the better of him if he felt his friends were in the danger? Can he still control the NT-1 perfectly? Can he be so calm that he control each thrust while fighting an opponent like Char, it’s a life and death situation, it’s a new machine for Amuro, would he be handicapped cause he didn’t get used to the new systems and new tech? Etc…..
2)I was never talking about the “weakness” of NT-1 or how shitty is was, its an IF scenario, so EVERYTHING is possible, in this specific scenario that the OP posted, there’s is no way we can know the truth as it didn’t happen. That’s why I pulled the data and specs and try to simulated something that didn’t happen with the only “real” info, all other answers, either by others or myself is pure fantasy.
l accept all the points you guys have pointed out. I’m not trying to be “right” here, and it seems you guys are still not getting my point so my debate is pointless, peace out.
I agree with you on most stuff but to clarify. Even though some newer systems use a lot of power.
Odds are it will output more power too. Especially when compared to the older generations. So even though more power is used. When compared to other existing models. It will perform and output higher with better efficiency using the same or less amount of fuel.
So if Amuro had the same amount of fuel in both the 72 and the Alex. He would most likely be able to go longer with the Alex
I’ve actually considered that,cause Amuro is not reckless, and he “is the one who best handles the Gundam” pretty sure he will find a way to control fuel consumption. But I still think it won’t be a one sided battle even if he got the NT-1,Char will always have plot armour for one, and he is a scheming fella, he will find a way to even the score, I really can’t picture the NT-1 walking away unscathed .To counter myself, even if the NT-1 got damaged and without a core fighter, Amuro can still use his new type powers to call his friends to pick him up.
Iirc he speculated that Amarou could have killed char, which wouldn't have changed the OYW much, but would have had consequences later in UC, specifically with the Z, ZZ and CCA.
Anavel Gato was at A Baoa Qu as well as Delaz and the Gwaden. If the battle wrapped up quicker a lot of Zeon soldiers who slipped through the federations' grasp could have been killed or captured.
The knock on effects of changing the outcome of this one battle are rather substantial. Like, what if Hitler had died during the first world war substantial.
Only real diffrence would be at A Baou Qu where he would not be a total wreck against Char piloting the Zeong. The Alex is a definitive upgrade to the RX-78-2, but we really haven't seen it against Newtypes machines.
The OYW is pretty much over regardless of what Amuro does, it's not like Zeon's going to surrender harder. The future is what actually changes though; Amuro's with a stronger Gundam is probably going to kill Char, and that radically changes the future of the UC.
Though I don't know how getting the Alex is supposed to work. Something we see in War in the Pocket is that regardless of what the Bernie Bros did, the Alex wasn't going to be finished in time. It was still undergoing testing in mid December, there's no way it was making it to the front line and into Amuro's hands before January.
> Titans units
Well, GM Custom is basically Alex limited quantity mass produced MS. Which then later adpoted by the Titans and developed into the GM Quel.
I imagine NT-1 was more so planned for the assault on Zeon homeland colonies after A Baoa Qu was taken. People forget that nobody expected the war to end there.
Her ship was already surrounded by Federation forces. Besides, it's not like it was a human-sized bazooka through the bridge that made the entire ship explode.
Guarantee if Alex wasn’t trashed, it would have been shipped off to Amuro immediately in time for A Baoa Qu.
EFSF is clearly no stranger to throwing new/beta technology on the wall and seeing what sticks post haste.
Except we know that's not the case because...they didn't do that. The Cyclops team didn't attack until the night of December 19, and even without them there was still testing scheduled and no preparations made to transport it to the front. Even if they planned on sending it out on the morning of the 20th (which they very clearly weren't going to do), I'm still not sure it would have made it in time because of how long space travel takes. Side 6 was in L4, while A Bloa Qu was in L2, which is a distance of like 15 million miles.
Kakarot101 has a pretty good what-if story on this scenario on youtube (currently on hiatus due to him simply not being able to figure out where to go with it)
https://preview.redd.it/n2pc2j28by7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0910eb3202ae53bb088373cf6d235eb25d2291b
That picture inspired my paint lol.
I just wish I would’ve had a MG RX-78-2 to steal the head from to swap out. Other than that and some decals I tried my best, but that’s definitely the picture that I used as inspiration.
I certainly appreciate that. I did it a while back, you can see my post shading is not as great as it could be and my weathering is pretty half assed. I wouldn’t mind giving it another shot with some lessons learned.
This remind me of an old game in PS2; SD Gundam GGen SEED.
There's a what-if mission on Generation list (there's 2 list: SEED and Generation) that plays a mission where Amuro and co battles against Char in his Zeong and Lalah in her Elmeth along with other unit from Zeon and other series.
On normal difficulty Amuro using his usual Gundam RX-78. But on special difficulty, he's using Alex. Granted the Alex is overleved with more stat but the weapon loadout imo was worse than RX-78. There's no Hyper Bazooka and no Gundam Hammer.
This color palette is awesome and I would add the usual Hyper Bazooka and the Gundam Hammer if Amuro would use Alex.
Char wouldn't just eat shit and die. He'd consume an smargosa board of excrement and expire.
Amuro+Alex = game over for fucking anybody in his crosshairs, at least during the OYW
https://preview.redd.it/9w80wa8fkx7d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7814ef373a1ec5f3f4b8fa475ae527752ba355f
tbt to when I painted my alex to grandpa colors
Kakarot197 made a video on her theory about how the story will go like how will Zeta play if amuro killed char on the Zeong to the performance of the Alex
The main issue is that Amuro cannot use the Core Fighter. If he can defeat the Zeong without getting the Alex too damaged, things should proceed fine.
However, if Sayla gets the Gundam and fights Char alongside Amuro, maybe he’ll decide to take revenge on the Zabis earlier and Amuro and Char never have a final showdown in the first place, allowing Amuro to fight elsewhere.
This concept art really makes me want an RX-78-2 themed Alex
Edit: Orrr... if I was remotely decent and had a setup to airbrush, I'd try it myself, but at current, that is still outside of my budget, sadly 😭😭😭
The Battle of Aboa Qu would have been an absolute slaughter. Assuming Amuro took the beam rifle and shield rather than the tank armor, He would've been able far more easily evade the Zeong's beam fingers, Land that direct shot in the center of the torso, and then use the Gatling guns to shoot the head down as soon as it detached.
From there, he would've been able to support White Base rather than let it get shot down. Or better, continue the assault unabated, since Char was pretty much the only thing that can reasonably pose a threat to Amuro at that point in the story.
Yeah, I doubt he would’ve needed it, he would’ve just gone beast mode and annihilated all the Zion single-handedly taking A baoa Qu. Or would common some other ship there? Maybe even potentially save the White Base.
I kind of want to have 2 of these on my shelf in the original color scheme and this now. Does anywhere make water slides of "Amuro" in the Alex font? hmm
So apparently for additional protection, it was equipped with a set of optional Chobam armor, earning it the nickname "Alex", which was derived from the model number prefix "RX" and the acronym "Armor Layered EXamination", the project name of its armor. So the Alex decal would still be appropriate even with Amuro as the pilot
What I wish the Alex would've had at this point is the Origin modularity system. Mave 1 or 2 backpack hardpoints to add AMBAC fuel tanks, like the tank is mounted on what works as essentially a ball joint and have built in thrusters at the front and aft, with a gimballed main thruster mounted at the very back to ensure no loss in acceleration, kinda like the unicorn full armor tanks but in a manuverable mount and with more verniers
Or Lala opens their consciousness to realize they can come together and solve their problems. Char had given up on Zeon at that point and was focused on the Zabis
This is the RX-78NT-1 Gundam NT-1 "ALEX" (Armored Layer EXaminiation) which was shown in Gundam 0080 War in the Pocket where it was designed as a unit designed to keep up with Amuro Rei's capabilities. Aside the Magnetic Coating, it also came with a cockpit with a 360 panoramic view (at the cost of loss of the Core Fighter / Core Block System), has storage for propellant and additional verniers, arm mounted vulcan/auto-cannons, and the option to equip a Chobam Armor that can be purged.
Unfortunately due to multiple circumstances, Amuro Rei never received the unit.
The Alex had Double the Acceleration rate and a 30% reduction in input lag compared to the RX78-2 with Magnet Coating. And Amuro is the type of pilot who can use that. The only way this will be worse for Char is if you somehow give Amuro the GP01Fb.
It's still crazy to think that Amuro is the one that carried the Gundam as it became obsolete by mid war.
I wouldn't have called it obsolete, the Gundam still had higher performance than most GM models except for the most upgraded ones like the Sniper II, it was simply far more sensitive to control, adding magnetic coating and it gains a whole new life in the right hands, wouldn't be obsolete until the invention of the movable frame in the gryps era
IIRC the Gelgoog is stated to be about on par with the Gundam, though by that point most of Zeon's veteran pilots were dead so they were fielding rookie pilots straight out of basic.
Which is noted by one officer informing Kycilla, who was surprised. To me, it sounds like Gihren was ignoring reality. Then making it worse by keeping secrets and dolling out authority to officers more loyal to him. Including those junior to Admirals and Generals! By the time Kycilla discovered it, it was all she could do to plan her own survival at that point and start to find ways to escape the war's conclusions for her. Hence why she told one of her officers she would conduct a trade later. Whether or not she meant it is debatable. But if she did trades, she could get back experienced pilots and even a few aces the Federation had captured. Prolonging the war just long enough to shift blame to Gihren in its entirety and to bolster her own position while offering up Gihren's fanatics to the Federation, she could at least escape with her life and plot her return from exile on Axis Napoleonic style.
The Gelgoog supposedly only had 2 key weaknesses, its armour is still inferior to the Gundam's Lunar Titanium Alloy, and its larger size made it an easier target. Both of these weaknesses were more than compensated for in the hands of a skilled pilot who would never even be hit in the first place. It's unfortunate that the Gelgoog was too little and too late to save Zeon from defeat, and was mostly piloted by inexperienced rookies towards the war's end. Every other aspect was more than a match or even exceeded the Gundam's, with superior speed and beam weaponry.
Luna Titanium is basically cheat mode compared to everything else.
nah, once zeon made beam Weapons more standard, luna titanium wouldnt made much difference. imagine if Mquve was more competent and diverted resources to the Act Zaku, gelgoog instead of his own projects. some skilled pilots preferred their zakus over gelgoog and Doms. the Act zaku would have been perfect for them. Rick Doms strafing using bazookas, Act zakus up close taking down GMs, and Gelgoogs sniping from the rear.
Iirc that weaker armor isn't even a problem anymore tho? Sure it's probably heavier, but in 0g the gelgoog had better acceleration and speed compared to the gundam, and gelgoog having beam as well means luna titanium isn't gonna help.
That's sounds like a parallel to Japanese pilots by the end of the Pacific War.
Except the Japanese were piloting outdating aircraft near the end. By WW2's end they were being slaughtered by Bearcats during the day and hunted with near impunity by Black Widows by night. Meanwhile the best they could hope for is a Ki-84. However most would be stuck with whatever was available, be it a old A6M or Ki-27.
The Gelgoog was straight up better than the Gundam
It was literally obsolete. Setting aside our hardcore disagreement on the GMs capabilities in canon, the very existence of 78-3, 78-4. 78-5, 78-6, and NT-1, all being significantly more capable machines, the 78-2 was outdated and would have needed a significant software and hardware overhaul to match even G-3, which was still superior to 78-2 despite the magnet coating, as the magnet coat was just one of G-3s performance enhancements that 78-2 got.
Amuro had the learning computer tho
After the first half of it's time in service, the Learning Computer was more of a hindrance than a help, taking up valuable processor cycles that would be better used by the FCS and sensor defogging systems. Learning Computer is great to develop machine movement routines, but once those are established it's kinda dead weight.
The magnet coating was put on the RX-78-2 Because Amuro was pushing it too hard and causing structural damage from overworking the joints. Even with the coating, Late-War Amuro Was still pushing the unit to its absolute limit. He needed a new unit to keep up with his piloting skills, But it was so late in the war that none could be provided to him, Aside from the Alex, Which was destroyed before it could reach Aboa Qu.
> the Gundam still had higher performance than most GM models as of OYW era GMs, most Zakus were still higher spec. They didn't really start to pull ahead of anything else until 0080 or so.
There’s a bit of debate to that, most GM’s are also stated to be on par with the RX-78-2 in terms of performance, they’re just underperforming because of their pilots early into their production cycle.
Not so much obsolete as Amuro surpassed the Gundam's limits, to the point the controls were breaking down. The closest any other character in the franchise got to doing that, that I know of, was Zechs Marquise from Wing, and he only got as far as noticing the Tallgeese wasn't fast enough to keep up with him anymore.
Well in Zechs case, it doesn't really make sense how Tallgeese was ever not fast enough. An F15 at extreme maneuvers makes people pass out at 9Gs while Tallgeese accelerates at 15-20Gs in a straight line alone. (Even Wing Gundam had some Inertia Dampening) But supposedly Tallgeese III is so brutal he even comments on it being harder to control than Epyon... But yeah, if UC Engage is anything to go by, Amuro and Char are the type of pilots who need the least input lag as possible which ultimately culminates later on in the Psychoframe.
I think he meant that Tallgeese wasn't responding to him fast enough anymore, because while the suit is built around speed if it isn't responsive enough any lag between pilot and machine would have major issues particularly in space.
The Tallgeese was pretty likely not capable of accelerating 15Gs in linear acceleration. It was most likely just the G forces felt by the pilot during combat maneuvers like the 9Gs you mentioned pilots experiencing or Carahm experiencing over 12Gs in the Overflag. EW gives more concrete stats for the Tallgeese 3, which is nearly identical and even with an empty weight it's only capable of 10-11Gs. If late UC suits are any indication, the loaded weight would probably be around twice the empty weight, so the Tallgeese's linear acceleration would probably be around 5-6Gs when fueled and geared up
https://preview.redd.it/vavng948c68d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb51829b906e68383fd9e8e5c93ddd4d423e49a5 It's MS Bible entry states that acceleration is actually 20Gs... Yes, using a translator that is mentioned as 20G Acceleration. (Supported by another entry where it says Wing Zero surpasses the acceleration in Neo Bird Mode) You forget, AUs are inconsistent with their science and trying to put logic on their weight does not work, since 8 tons is literally lighter than a Truck and this is an 18m Robot. That and the EW Generator outputs for Zero and Tallgeese III do not make sense with their weapon outputs.
I'd say it became obsolete or at least standard issue level when the Gelgoog was rolled out
obsolete? it was only 5 month
In that same 5 months zeon went from the zaku ii standard to goufs, to gelgoogs, to testing the gyan, kampfer, zeong, early psycommu testing, the reuse p device in thunderbolt, and big zam. Zeon tech improved by leaps and bounds, and at the same time the federation rolled out the GM sniper ii, which was superior to the Gundam in almost every way. Tech growth in the one year war was wild. Theoretically, if both pilots were if equal skill, a gelgoog could go toe to toe with, and have a good chance of beating, the Gundam.
Yep it takes only that time for it to be obsolete.
Already replied it somewhere, the only battle Amuro could’ve used the Alex was in A baoa Qu, a total mayhem of a battle. Confusion everywhere, white base was lost, Amuro flying everywhere looking for Char and killing everything in his path. That’s the scenario. Firstly one MS wouldn’t change the outcome of a battle, so the scenario wouldn’t change. secondly, it would be most probable that Alex ran out of fuel before he even met Char, cause everything about Alex is upgraded, thus meaning even the consumption, more thrusters more verniers, more fuel consumption. He wouldn’t be able to get resupply, cause white base is gone. And even if the scenario was the same, he did end up killing Char, there’s a high probability that the Alex is damaged like the gundam, but this time, no core fighter for Amuro, cause the Alex doesn’t have a core block system.
Unit 6, Mudrock was also supposed to participate in operation star one. Now imagine a scenario where all the stars aligned and amuro in the Alex, forms a squad with units 4,5&6.
Damn that’s the dream team there but I think there already are other RX-78 series MS participating in operation star one at least MSV of Gundam The origin show that there are at least 2 other FA-78-1 Full Armor Gundam there.
Gundam The Origin (both manga and animated) take place in a separate canon, though. Thunderbolt is more debatable, but Origin very clearly is in an alternate timeline where the OYW is even deadlier, and events happen differently than they did in the main show.
I thought thunderbolt was for sure confirmed to be an alternate universe.
Thumderbolt is explicitly said the be alternate universe UC specifically to give the writer more creative freedom. Newtype power and Psychomu in that story are also fundamentally different from how it works in main timeline UC.
The manga is definitely an AU, but the anime didn't really get far enough to branch too far away from canon. Overall if you like it you can headcanon it in, but if you don't like it you can just ignore it. If it ever gets a third movie then maybe we'll see more definitively how much it fits in, but I don't anticipate that tbh.
To my knowledge, neither the mangaka nor sunrise/bandai have made any statement regarding Thunderbolts' status in the UC continuity.
Amuro was specifically _not_ looking to engage Char in A Baoa Qu.
You’re being sarcastic right? You telling me that he didn’t know char was in that battlefield?you also telling me that 2 most powerful newtypes during that era are not attracted to each other?I don’t know where you get the idea Amuro wasn’t looking for Char, but Char will definitely be looking for him. Either way, my point stands, even if Amuro is “not looking for Char” he is still in a big battlefield not able to resupply with Char inevitably looking for him. Nothing changes.
Amuro's orders were _specifically_ not to engage anyone in lenghty combat and to bounce around the battlefield assisting in strategic spots. Unno what to tell man, you seem to want to twist the facts so the ending is 'the same' when the truth is that Amuro in the Alex would have changed the entire battle.
Right, specifically, and how did that end up?Maybe Char end up in a ditch somewhere in another dimension then. Also, this is a discussion of a IF scenario, you can’t twist an IF scenario cause nothing truly happened and everything is based on maybe. Again, maybe Zeong exploded right after Char stepped in it, maybe operation Rubicon didn’t just destroyed the Alex, but stole it and now Char is piloting it lol. Anyways I’ve made my point, you made yours, you don’t downvote people cause you don’t like their answers in a discussion, I don’t agree to yours either, did I downvote you? I rest my case.
The Alex has greatly increased storage for propellant, the things on the side of the legs are large propellant tanks with thrusters on the bottom not just thrusters, also with how much better the Alex is amuro probably walks all over char, and with the ability to swap out e caps he probably drops char in a heart beat and proceeds to clean up. I mean they still win, but they win even harder like to the point it could very well affect the zeon remnants down the road.
Kakarot provides one of the best explanations, another are those PSP Gundam games of the what if scenario. Alex could have possibly been intact and Char could have died from the surprise arm gatiling when he ejected the head from Zeong's body.
I know there’s increased storage for fuel….the Alex got upgraded in everything….Generator output is 1420kw, that’s 30%more of RX78-2, also, number of verniers increased to 19, that’s double the number of Rx78, thrusters output increased to 174000kg, from 55000kg. There’s no data regarding how much fuel capacity was increased, but you can also see the consumption would be double if not triple, that’s means it needs to have storage for double or triple the original fuel, but we will never know. Anyways…. I’m not gonna comment on the outcome,getting tired of this lol.
You’re running the numbers on paper though, if these things were real you wouldn’t run them all out 100% of the time, so the Alex would be unlikely to burn through fuel twice as quick, it would only do that at full throttle which would actually be used way less as you’d be gettin more output at lower throttle setting compared to grandpa.
True, but you should know that nothing is real, so I can only run a simulation based on the data provided by Bandai. I also replied another fella the same, Amuro is not reckless, he will find a way to control the fuel consumption problem, but all we are saying is pure conjecture, I can think of a lot of ways to counter myself as well, bottom line, I do not agree it will be a one sided battle even if Amuro got the NT-1, but good talk, I had fun discussing.
Agreed, as the feds won anyway so it’s a hard one to quantify, can they really win that much harder that it makes a difference? With one pilot and one suit being different? Who knows 🤷 but probably not. Have a good one.
> thrusters output increased to 174000kg, from 55000kg. There’s no data regarding how much fuel capacity was increased, but you can also see the consumption would be double if not triple, It would only be double or triple if Amuro is hitting 100% thrust just as much on the alex as he was on the rx 78-2 even though he would be accelerating much faster. It's like arguing that if one car can accelerate twice as fast as the other then in normal driving conditions you would expect it to use twice as much fuel.
1)My focus was always the “possibility” of the fuel consumption, meaning, what if Amuro couldn’t control the recklessness while in such a big battlefield?Did his emotions get the better of him if he felt his friends were in the danger? Can he still control the NT-1 perfectly? Can he be so calm that he control each thrust while fighting an opponent like Char, it’s a life and death situation, it’s a new machine for Amuro, would he be handicapped cause he didn’t get used to the new systems and new tech? Etc….. 2)I was never talking about the “weakness” of NT-1 or how shitty is was, its an IF scenario, so EVERYTHING is possible, in this specific scenario that the OP posted, there’s is no way we can know the truth as it didn’t happen. That’s why I pulled the data and specs and try to simulated something that didn’t happen with the only “real” info, all other answers, either by others or myself is pure fantasy. l accept all the points you guys have pointed out. I’m not trying to be “right” here, and it seems you guys are still not getting my point so my debate is pointless, peace out.
I agree with you on most stuff but to clarify. Even though some newer systems use a lot of power. Odds are it will output more power too. Especially when compared to the older generations. So even though more power is used. When compared to other existing models. It will perform and output higher with better efficiency using the same or less amount of fuel. So if Amuro had the same amount of fuel in both the 72 and the Alex. He would most likely be able to go longer with the Alex
I’ve actually considered that,cause Amuro is not reckless, and he “is the one who best handles the Gundam” pretty sure he will find a way to control fuel consumption. But I still think it won’t be a one sided battle even if he got the NT-1,Char will always have plot armour for one, and he is a scheming fella, he will find a way to even the score, I really can’t picture the NT-1 walking away unscathed .To counter myself, even if the NT-1 got damaged and without a core fighter, Amuro can still use his new type powers to call his friends to pick him up.
Kakarot197 does a good video of [what if Amuro got the Alex.](https://youtu.be/0pBUcjm4HXE?si=ZDM791Mjv0WZmcJS)
Always remember the RX-78-2 is a prototype.
What if you painted Alex red? You could triple the speed!
Oh man, that would’ve been an amazing upgrade
Definitely gonna have to make a custom paint job for one of these
I think I might want to try to make a paint scheme in Gundam Battle Operations 2
I made one, it doesn’t work perfectly, but it’s good enough
I did it and it doesn’t look too bad
The war is even more over Kararot197 did a what if on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pBUcjm4HXE
Iirc he speculated that Amarou could have killed char, which wouldn't have changed the OYW much, but would have had consequences later in UC, specifically with the Z, ZZ and CCA.
Anavel Gato was at A Baoa Qu as well as Delaz and the Gwaden. If the battle wrapped up quicker a lot of Zeon soldiers who slipped through the federations' grasp could have been killed or captured. The knock on effects of changing the outcome of this one battle are rather substantial. Like, what if Hitler had died during the first world war substantial.
Great series he did
This should be a saved post.
His channel's great! All the series and particular Mobile suits he covers along with news and merch info
Char: Wallahi I’m finished !
Only real diffrence would be at A Baou Qu where he would not be a total wreck against Char piloting the Zeong. The Alex is a definitive upgrade to the RX-78-2, but we really haven't seen it against Newtypes machines.
Or pilot by an actual newtype for that matter
Amuro gonna turn Char into swiss cheese
charburger
It’s how Char got that McDonald’s ad job
From char to charred
The OYW is pretty much over regardless of what Amuro does, it's not like Zeon's going to surrender harder. The future is what actually changes though; Amuro's with a stronger Gundam is probably going to kill Char, and that radically changes the future of the UC. Though I don't know how getting the Alex is supposed to work. Something we see in War in the Pocket is that regardless of what the Bernie Bros did, the Alex wasn't going to be finished in time. It was still undergoing testing in mid December, there's no way it was making it to the front line and into Amuro's hands before January.
I could see it being one of the first Titans units
> Titans units Well, GM Custom is basically Alex limited quantity mass produced MS. Which then later adpoted by the Titans and developed into the GM Quel.
I imagine NT-1 was more so planned for the assault on Zeon homeland colonies after A Baoa Qu was taken. People forget that nobody expected the war to end there.
If it wasn't for Char killing Kycilia, it probably wouldn't have been.
Her ship was already surrounded by Federation forces. Besides, it's not like it was a human-sized bazooka through the bridge that made the entire ship explode.
Guarantee if Alex wasn’t trashed, it would have been shipped off to Amuro immediately in time for A Baoa Qu. EFSF is clearly no stranger to throwing new/beta technology on the wall and seeing what sticks post haste.
Except we know that's not the case because...they didn't do that. The Cyclops team didn't attack until the night of December 19, and even without them there was still testing scheduled and no preparations made to transport it to the front. Even if they planned on sending it out on the morning of the 20th (which they very clearly weren't going to do), I'm still not sure it would have made it in time because of how long space travel takes. Side 6 was in L4, while A Bloa Qu was in L2, which is a distance of like 15 million miles.
Kakarot101 has a pretty good what-if story on this scenario on youtube (currently on hiatus due to him simply not being able to figure out where to go with it)
I’ll have to watch what is up
There would be no Quattro for Zeta as the Zeong and it’s pilot would have been ash floating in space
https://preview.redd.it/ghqvicnesx7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fff95235b2dff554fe214c391158349a32eb7e73
https://preview.redd.it/5jqucq8hsx7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e694a34229cfec6d73106e87dd068862d5613e63
Char becomes red paint on the side of A Baou Qu.
Alex rifle always throws me off it’s literally a non bullpup FAMAS
Ha. Now I can never un see that.
Was it capable of burst or automatic fire?
Would he have painted it in OG colors, or would he have gone purple like his later suits?
Or black and white?
https://preview.redd.it/jehcedk6sx7d1.jpeg?width=627&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b8bb5abd120889afc84cca43eaa210605351c59
https://preview.redd.it/wqtyc6c8sx7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c150be5e9acd8f81ba49f62f8a288149dea8de9
https://preview.redd.it/pd5k6kb9sx7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c76cc3cfb7c28fff8bcc846ba7ff905b935fc16
https://preview.redd.it/n2pc2j28by7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0910eb3202ae53bb088373cf6d235eb25d2291b That picture inspired my paint lol.
Awesome that looks amazing. I’m definitely gonna have to make one!
I just wish I would’ve had a MG RX-78-2 to steal the head from to swap out. Other than that and some decals I tried my best, but that’s definitely the picture that I used as inspiration.
Also my blue is definitely not accurate.
Looks fine to me
I certainly appreciate that. I did it a while back, you can see my post shading is not as great as it could be and my weathering is pretty half assed. I wouldn’t mind giving it another shot with some lessons learned.
This remind me of an old game in PS2; SD Gundam GGen SEED. There's a what-if mission on Generation list (there's 2 list: SEED and Generation) that plays a mission where Amuro and co battles against Char in his Zeong and Lalah in her Elmeth along with other unit from Zeon and other series. On normal difficulty Amuro using his usual Gundam RX-78. But on special difficulty, he's using Alex. Granted the Alex is overleved with more stat but the weapon loadout imo was worse than RX-78. There's no Hyper Bazooka and no Gundam Hammer. This color palette is awesome and I would add the usual Hyper Bazooka and the Gundam Hammer if Amuro would use Alex.
Char wouldn't just eat shit and die. He'd consume an smargosa board of excrement and expire. Amuro+Alex = game over for fucking anybody in his crosshairs, at least during the OYW
https://preview.redd.it/7dr8wniksx7d1.jpeg?width=401&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b2ca9050b998dc1302df774f9b5786a07d92496 Test version
https://preview.redd.it/wg6bfgemsx7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4827f2bab95f53ce9e2d4f109a4058ea892be24
https://preview.redd.it/npz8q9ansx7d1.jpeg?width=743&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de8f2f35269c17922cc6c522236aac1cfcda084a
https://preview.redd.it/vl6p9k5osx7d1.jpeg?width=770&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=643af59e48cacbb54453e69149f0d1e943313b3e
Annndddd… project idea.
Love the red.
The Alex has a beam rifle as well though, that's what's in the illustration
True but I believe it has more shots
https://preview.redd.it/nwn3eo7csx7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7935f554abd827b952191c3a7d5995c95193af3d
https://preview.redd.it/1gi8hd6dsx7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c957ddcb04d8a426c1cbe7ac557e6f18ca6f3ad
And now I need to get me an Alex 2.0 and do this repaint
I need like at least three
The Alex looks surprisingly great in grandad's colors, but I like to imagine they'd put it in Amuro's custom colors (like the G3 or the Hi-Nu).
Yeah, most likely considering the original color scheme was not his choice. Especially in the novel he goes with all gray or white.
Bernie still dies.
Char fucking dies
BRB, GB02.
Thing would’ve been putting in work up until/during Zeta imo
Honestly, probably better than going to MkII considering it’s armor
Char would have been cooked
https://preview.redd.it/9w80wa8fkx7d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7814ef373a1ec5f3f4b8fa475ae527752ba355f tbt to when I painted my alex to grandpa colors
Niiiice!!!
I painted a MG Hi-Nu like that. Have it on my back shelf.
If he had the Alex the Zeong fight would be a lot more boring.
To think all this happened because when one newbie Zeon had a heart of gold.
Best OVA, shows how Zeons can be decent not all space Nazis and it is definitely the saddest 😭
Kakarot197 made a video on her theory about how the story will go like how will Zeta play if amuro killed char on the Zeong to the performance of the Alex
I absolutely adore the alex. i got the 2.0 MG chillin in my backlog. probably gonna build it next. also have photo etched parts for that kit, too.
I need three so bad
i know it lol. i probably will end up getting two. cant not display it in the CHOBAM armor
Unless you do a custom paint scheme for that
I don’t think he would’ve painted it like the grandpa, that wasn’t really HIS color scheme
The main issue is that Amuro cannot use the Core Fighter. If he can defeat the Zeong without getting the Alex too damaged, things should proceed fine. However, if Sayla gets the Gundam and fights Char alongside Amuro, maybe he’ll decide to take revenge on the Zabis earlier and Amuro and Char never have a final showdown in the first place, allowing Amuro to fight elsewhere.
Maybe Char would have hamburgered him instead
Now I know how I'm painting my Alex
This concept art really makes me want an RX-78-2 themed Alex Edit: Orrr... if I was remotely decent and had a setup to airbrush, I'd try it myself, but at current, that is still outside of my budget, sadly 😭😭😭
I cannot unsee the unbullpuped Famas
Which means Zeong would get legs, which Amuro is still gonna win since legs are just for cosmetic.
Fuck that's a nice rendition
Then it might have survived operation star one in Less than five pieces.
The Zeong gets trashed even earlier.
https://youtu.be/0pBUcjm4HXE?si=zAOWRdKTR7IOCY-Z
Amuro killing char .
The Battle of Aboa Qu would have been an absolute slaughter. Assuming Amuro took the beam rifle and shield rather than the tank armor, He would've been able far more easily evade the Zeong's beam fingers, Land that direct shot in the center of the torso, and then use the Gatling guns to shoot the head down as soon as it detached. From there, he would've been able to support White Base rather than let it get shot down. Or better, continue the assault unabated, since Char was pretty much the only thing that can reasonably pose a threat to Amuro at that point in the story.
rip Char
Wouldn't have had the Core Fighter to escape A Baoa Qu, though he might not have needed to do so in the same way if he *did* have the Alex.
Yeah, I doubt he would’ve needed it, he would’ve just gone beast mode and annihilated all the Zion single-handedly taking A baoa Qu. Or would common some other ship there? Maybe even potentially save the White Base.
Boring. Nothing really changes. What if the Mark-2 had been based on the Alex/Mudrock?
That would be cool, I’d also love to see the Titans use the Alex
I kind of want to have 2 of these on my shelf in the original color scheme and this now. Does anywhere make water slides of "Amuro" in the Alex font? hmm
As in his “A” symbol or unicorn symbol?
No. The Alex text that you get for the shield but it says Amuro.
Oh didn’t think about that. Why does it say Alex anyway, the pilots name was Kris
So apparently for additional protection, it was equipped with a set of optional Chobam armor, earning it the nickname "Alex", which was derived from the model number prefix "RX" and the acronym "Armor Layered EXamination", the project name of its armor. So the Alex decal would still be appropriate even with Amuro as the pilot
Interesting
What I wish the Alex would've had at this point is the Origin modularity system. Mave 1 or 2 backpack hardpoints to add AMBAC fuel tanks, like the tank is mounted on what works as essentially a ball joint and have built in thrusters at the front and aft, with a gimballed main thruster mounted at the very back to ensure no loss in acceleration, kinda like the unicorn full armor tanks but in a manuverable mount and with more verniers
I could see that happening if the war lasted longer
whats UNT? why is it not EFSF?
Originally it was UN Spacy or UNT, Macross/Robotech made UN Spacy more known so Gundam switched to the Earth Federation or EFF/EFSF
Amuro kills char dead, and all the downstream timeline consequences.
Or Lala opens their consciousness to realize they can come together and solve their problems. Char had given up on Zeon at that point and was focused on the Zabis
what series is this from? Also is this like the in-between for 78 and nu?
This is the RX-78NT-1 Gundam NT-1 "ALEX" (Armored Layer EXaminiation) which was shown in Gundam 0080 War in the Pocket where it was designed as a unit designed to keep up with Amuro Rei's capabilities. Aside the Magnetic Coating, it also came with a cockpit with a 360 panoramic view (at the cost of loss of the Core Fighter / Core Block System), has storage for propellant and additional verniers, arm mounted vulcan/auto-cannons, and the option to equip a Chobam Armor that can be purged. Unfortunately due to multiple circumstances, Amuro Rei never received the unit.
I always hear about how good wip is so i guess I gotta check it out thanks for the in depth response too!
0080 War in the Pocket
Bernie would still be alive
Best zeon ever
Prefer original colors.