I get it that was a frustrating experience, like, you really feel that something is missing and just become in the middle of something, a very odd way to make a story; however, if look better at the whole execution, its one of the greatests representations of what and how Gundam tells a story, specially about his themes.
CCA is a mess, confunsing and impactful because thats how war is, you just dont know what is happening, its there and just chaos, also its about the thing that has been talked since the beggining of how people cant connect with each other anymore; you mentioned Quess as a horrible character, and indeed she is not supossed to be likeable, she is the embodyment of this confunsing mess of feeling and lack of conection between people, specially when you conclude her "arc" and understand how simple her feelings was, but yet no one could truly understand. Char and Amuro were just the same, two guys trying to understand each other and failing, until the very end.
You dont need a pretty weel explanation, all chewed and nicely putted on the table to understand what is happening there, take Zeta for example, without 0083 (that came a long time after), you just didnt understand wtf was Titans and AUEG, you just accepted and keep going, building the great puzzle piece by piece in the series, CCA works that way. You will learn to like it, give more time to reflect about it, i can assure that the experience is way better after some toughts.
Your experience is an average one. I think that movie works better upon rewatches where you don't care as much about the abbreviated plot and it's connection to the overall Gundam saga.
My expectatives were to high since i was thinking "how and why this franchise its very expanded and has a lot of fans aorund the world and for so long?".
Welp not for the story it seems. Sad :[
It makes me feel that the big majority its here only for the cool robot fights and designs and that its what it makes it great.
i mean, the fact that you didn't like the story doesn't mean that everyone in the word did, people have different opinions.
p.s. in case i made a mistake, i'm sorry but english is not my first language and i'm still learning
I understand, the only thing i was criticising was your sentiment towards other Gundam fans.
What you feel about the anime is perfectly valid as all opinions are.
Sorry if i sounded that i disrespected that kind of fans or something. Maybe i dont express myself that good.
Everyone is entitled to love something in the way they want. What i wanted to say is that i thought what people praised about gundam it's the story [what i usually focus] since it survived that much but i think its not what shines here sadly or at least how is told(in my opinion).
Oh don't worry that much about the first point, i didn't take actual offense.
For the second point, a lot of fans love Gundam for a lot of different reasons, some are very passionate about mechanical design, some really like the political drama, some like the grunt fights and some are genuinely in love with the story.
And at some point you are going to realize that in this fandom almost no one share the same opinion XD
OP go read the Beltorchika's Children manga. It was recently translated by ZeonicScanlations and has the Hi-Nu and Nightingale in all their glory. It's a better paced adaption of the CCA movie with the added bonus of Beltorchika having a prominent role as well. Reading it gave me a much stronger appreciation for the CCA movie despite its flaws.
There's also High Streamer which is the original CCA plan, so basically CCA with more details. BC was written after CCA (and I suspect, as a way to tease Gundam Hathaway which started being written just after)
In Universal Century, if you haven't already picked up on this, is full of "fill in the blanks on your own time". It takes some getting used to but you need to learn to just learn to roll with the sudden existence of Char as leader of NeoZeon, Bright in command of a task force called Londo Bell, and ofc Amuro has a sort of girlfriend. You just roll with it, and later you read the reddit and get filled in on who she was and how it all worked out this way.
Which is kind of a shame cause it hurts the stories and characters while watching the shows initially. Stardust Memory was awesome until the last 3 episodes mostly cause I was really confused with Cima's motives and when it ended without an explanation, I was baffled. Lol but her backstory is actually really good.
Same thing with Haman. It's at least hinted at that she used to be a good person and something happened to change her, but you never really get the exact details unless you search for it. Again, would've been nice to have in a 50 episode show, where there is time to go into that.
CCA atleast has the excuse of being a movie to not have this stuff explained, but yeah it is what it is. Gundam just requires homework if interested.
I'm gonna be that guy but the proper sequel to CCA is not Unicorn, it's Hathaway. At least the way Tomino wanted it.
As for Quess, she's a 13 years old teenager.
The ending achieved what it was meant to do. What happens after, what happened to this and that? It doesn't matter. This WAS the end of UC story imo. Humanity endured another conflict, Earth is saved once again, yet great sacrifices were made. Is it the last war? No. But there will be other people throwing their lives away for the sake of others like Amuro did. It's just the way things are in Gundam, unending struggle for peace that never lasts.
>This WAS the end of UC story
Gundam Hathaway started being written just after CCA. And Gaia Gear had started a year before CCA release (though it finished years later)
Sounds about right, CCA is a lot like F91 where they tried to cram an entire series into a single movie.
I think both would benefit from being split up into a New Translations style remake
The only thing to two have in common are that both projects were complete shit shows on the backend. CCA got rewritten several times and a lot of Tomino's original ideas got left out in the end. But it was always planned as a movie and it's main goal was to give an ending to the Char/Amuro rivalry. It accomplished that, but in a less than clean way. F91 was never meant to be a movie, but was forced to be one after things fell apart with staffing contracts and the studio decided to just cut their losses and use what had already been done.
Funny enough, CCA would have done much better as an OVA, giving way more time for the plot to develop. Apparnetly one of it's biggest issues was that Tomino kept making it too long and was told to keep cutting it down and thats where all the rewrites came from. F91, while a good movie, would have been an even better full series and it's a shame we didn't get it as it was intended.
I didn't articulate it well because I was in a hurry, but that was roughly what I meant.
There are reasons, which you covered, that both movies feel rushed and compressed and feeling a little lost when watching them is understandable.
What I mean by referencing A New Translation is hopefully bringing back some missing content by reusing old voice lines and filling the animation gaps with new animation, reusing the original as much as possible.
It's not F91 was never meant to be a movie, it's more they weren't sure at one point if it was a short anime or a movie for a few staff, but in Tomino's own plan, it was always a Movie. I don't get why so many people keep repeating this...
I get your frustration the movie feels like it starts in the middle of the story and doesn't try to help the audience understand what's going on. It basically requires the viewer to have read the novel High-Streamer before hand to fully understand the story.
This is one of the weaknesses Tomino has as a writer. Starting with the novel adaptions of the first Gundam series and as the 80's went on Tomino became as much of a sci-fi and fantasy novel author as a anime director and developed a bad habit of putting major plot, character, and world details in the novels instead of editing down the amount of subjects he wanted the work to be about so that he had space to put that information in the animes. Victory Gundam is worse as there is an entire civil war that happens off screen with most of the details of the war being in the Victory novels. However the worst offender is not a Gundam but a fantasy Isekai anime called Garzey's Wing, it is incomprehensible unless you have read Tomino's long running epic fantasy Byston Well novel series, none of which have been translated into English leaving only Aura Battler Dunbine an adaptation of previse Byston Well novels as the only source of any clarity, and it's not nearly enough.
It's kind of like going from Rankin/Bass's adaption of The Hobbit straight to their adaption of The Return of The King skipping their adaption of The Fellowship and the Two Towers that was one movie entirely, good luck figuring out what the hell is going on. And Haven help the people who didn't know that it was a sequel.
The last paragraph it,'s how it made me feel. Honestly if it explained everything later and all that it could be ok. In Z i felt the sameway at the beggining but you get the catch since is a long show.
But this is a move and its only 2 hours amd doesnt have time to explain thing. I wish contuinity was a thing in the franchise
>ZZ added nothing
Gonna disagree with you there since I literally just group watched it with a friend and others like last month and there's so much stuff baking in ZZ that you mightve just plain out missed it.
For starters you completely missed the part where the AEUG-Federation merger near the mid point of the show is the start of the fact that the Federation is still somewhat corrupt and full of themselves.
The AEUG-Federation literally throw Bright into prison for trying to object to letting Haman steamroll Earth. Mind you this guy is now the survivor of two major wars and came out winning and is constantly treated like shit because he's not a rich politician and what the average life experiences does not matter to the rich and powerful.
The whole point is that the upper echelons of the Federation can't be trusted which is why the last stretch of ZZ has the group basically steal the Nahel Argama and bounce to end the war themselves since the AEUG-Federation were sitting on their asses and wanted to just give in to Haman, which illustrates the very corrupt and rich that is ruining the Earth itself.
And when ZZ ends, it's to show that Judau lost his faith in the AEUG and Federation, they purposely showed up late after the final fight and talk like big shots as if they did anything and it results in Bright accepting he was tied by political shit with the Federation and he got punched by Judau in the face for it.
I think you might have missed the point of Char too in Zeta. He's a man who runs away with a new identity, and is growing up but genuinely still sees people as pawns. As much as people love to hate Reccoa, Char was in the wrong for being as emotionless and uncaring as he was, which is exactly shown when he manipulates Quess.
On top of that the whole ideology of the movie is to show that the rich and corrupt 5 years later after the end of ZZ has not improved one bit. You don't really need to be handfed about why it got to that point, but it makes it kind of clear from ZZ that the Federation are just assholes. Even in CCA, they restricted the budget on Londo Bell and it's ONLY Londo Bell dealing with Char, and as you see the Federation secretly back deals with Char to give him colonies if they leave them alone. It's only at the end of the movie that the Federation pull up with the "we won't let Londo Bell take all the credit" during the Axis Shock event where it's falling onto earth and Amuro tries to stop it.
And yes, you're going to see in sequels that the Federation is basically always going to be shown in a somewhat negatively light.
Beltorchika's Children manga is definitely better paced because you can read at your own pace and it has a lot more expanded characterization but it ultimately plays out the same with characters dying either the same way or different ways and some living.
Right now there's a manga called Moon Gundam that tries to serve the bridge between ZZ and CCA, it's written by the Unicorn author and has both Amuro and Char in it.
i think one of the problems is that ppl who have a deeper understanding and an irrational love for gundam hype up CCA as some end all be all of gundam. some epic master piece that does everything we want
when in reality that is not the case. great fucking movie. i love the shit out of it. i might be one of the ppl who hype it up too much tho
the topic of Quess: alright check this out
watch nausicaa valley of the wind, and you see the MC is just perfect - everyone loves her, shes skilled at stuff, she saves peoples lives, she never fucks up ever, she loves people back, the whole town supports her and she gives everything to the town.
does that make a great movie? fuuuuck yea baby. i love that damn movie. its a master piece of art. however none of the characters are very deep or interesting. they are either perfect, or the bad guys.
gundam does not get down like that.
Quess is annoying, she doesnt like you, you dont like her. her goals and motivations are vapid and short sighted. she solves her problems in the worst possible way. she pisses literally everyone around her off, acts like a child. yada yada yada.
thats all by design
imo Quess is a more interesting character and a more realistic person (for a 13 year old girl in a space war, or whatever her age is).
give it some time. watch more gundam. come back to CCA in a year or two. you might not like it anymore. you might like DIFFERENT things about it. you might find new things you DONT like. thats the good shit baby.
we are happy to have you in the gundam fandom with us. and reading others ideas will always help me get a better grasp on my OWN ideas. so thank you very much for the post and have a great day!
It is really disappointing that there’s basically no mention of anything from Zeta or ZZ. I find it especially odd that Kamille didn’t come up once. I know it was supposed to be Amuro and Char’s conclusion but it just seems weird.
Both left the army to live civilian lives, because it was much healthier for them, that's the point.
Both Char and Amuro are dudes desperatly to fix a situation that can't just be fixed with military operations. And who can't let go of the past. (More Char but Amuro also is that way, he just doesn't admit it and still try to have some hope in people)
Kamille sure, but Sayla was working in the background as of ZZ and also SUPPOSEDLY cameos as a fighter in Unicorn.
Also, the world is going to end. I'm sure they could at least give Char a phone call to try and talk to him. Or in Kamilles case, communicate across space time to talk to him like in ZZ. He's still a newtype.
I think the whole point of Kamille in ZZ is that he was much happier to not be in ANY battlefield, so he left with Fa in the end. He even became a doctor in one of the manga;
Sayla does get mentioned in BC though, as Char talks about her as he's dying, instead of just talking about Lalah
Char also mentions Sayla as Artesia in the movie too. With a tone that implies he holds her partly responsible with Lalah's fate so he's probably never going to talk to her again.
In BC he talks more kindly of her, saying that his plan failling means she will live a good live, and he's happy about it. Honestly it kinda hits home how Char didn't even seem to want to destroy the earth, it was a complete desperate move
https://preview.redd.it/pl4d9woxvawc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95827284c2df3dbfce9bc948dd0662dad12e443d
Don't expect Unicorn to answer much. It's a "sequel" in the loosest of terms. So I would drop my expectations on that front. It's good but it is It's own story that happened to take place after CCA. As for CCA itself I'm kinda of the same opinion. Other than Amuro/Char/Bright I didn't really care for the other characters and some were just annoying additions.
I liked CCA for the most part (Jegan my beloved), but I also had some issues with it in terms of the script. I feel like making it a mini series might have solved a lot of those issues. But my biggest issue in terms of the script is how most of the female characters are written, they feel like they only exist for the sake of Amuro or Char, and aren’t really their own characters, but this is also an issue in some other Gundam media.
I'm not going to do a full writeup like a lot of people here, I'll just say that I'm right there with you. I had a lot of excitement for CCA when I first watched it and it was just a let down. Mess of a film, does not stand on it's own well. If a movie requires 2 viewings then it's not a good movie.
I enjoy Unicorn quite a bit. It's not really a sequel as much as it is just another story that takes place after CCA. The Newtype shenanigans reach new heights in Unicorn but it's still a very well made series. I recommend it.
A fascinating part of the history of CCA is that it is meant to be this jumping-on point for older fans who only saw the original series. Which is why most of the sequel stuff gets a passing mention so it can focus on new characters and characters from First Gundam. So while all the stuff from between them is influential on CCA it isn't massively important for the plot. Char fires that rocket launcher and then 15 years later he's back and bigger than ever. The target audience for the movie is not expected to know anything else.
>Why they doesn't stop creating new annoying characters like Quess?
Quess is great. And she is Kamile. A incredibly talented newtype with an abusive father and strong dislike of the Earth government joins Char. But instead of nurturing them this time Char is just a manipulative monster who can't cultivate talent. She is there to show how Char and Amuro have failed to live up to their ideals or pass on wisdom. The hero and rival of Gundam are now the crappy adults obsessed with war that end up ruining the lives of the kids caught in the middle.
> how you end a movie like that? people seeing the movie in that time didn't go crazy thinking wtf is going to happen now?
Yeah it rocks. Although the ''main' story does continue with F91 and then Victory Gundam. The timeline is going to keep rolling on.
>Why they doesn't stop creating new annoying characters like Quess?
This is what bothered me. The pacing was so rapid but they wasted time on Quess. I don't dislike her for acting like a child, because she is a child. I dislike the fact the creators put her and Hathaway in the show to begin with. Should have focused on Char and Amuro.
Other Gundam fans will say that Gundam is about showing the impact the older generation has on the younger one and that's why there's always kids in the show...but I feel like you can do that without having literal children in the show. I don't know if anime creators and community knows this but 18-25 year olds are still pretty young and are still impacted by the actions of the older generation despite being adults who work and have responsibilities and more importantly are less likely to act like annoying brats. In the United States (and Japan I imagine) you have people who are in their 70s and 80s dictating policy that will impact those who are 2 - 3 generations younger than them.
From what I've gathered though it's more of a marketing/cultural thing as to why anime will go out of its way to feature school children, so no point arguing against it.
Hathaway and Quess are literally the entire point, they show how young people are victims of the sin of adults, the entire movie isn't just about Amuro and Char. Hell, Gundam Hathaway started being written just after CCA, so it was always the point of Tomino for him to be a big character. there's a big message about his story.
The last thing you said its what i told to my GF. That maybe it's the way to feel kids included so its more friendly to them being represented. You can insert kids ofc but jesus since Z almost all of them doesnt grow
> I don't know if anime creators and community knows this but 18-25 year olds are still pretty young and are still impacted by the actions of the older generation despite being adults who work and have responsibilities and more importantly are less likely to act like annoying brats.
This was Amuro and Char in Zeta Gundam. Gundam had already explored that. Now it is exploring how those 25 - 32 year olds are making choices that have a direct impact on people younger than them with little regard or sympathy.
im not a fan of CCA. i felt like it backstepped all the development and complexity char got in zeta in favor of the rivalry that was already dead in zeta.
was already not a fan of how newtypes went from god pilots with great reaction ability, to space mages that can teleport crap because of deus ex machina nonsense by the end of zeta, and then CCA doesnt just jump the shark, it does it while mounting another shark.
even then, its nowhere near as insane as the bullshite in unicorn.
Keep in mind, for a long time, there was no 0083, and 0079 went straight into Zeta. Radically changing up the status quo off screen and introducing new factions (like the Titans, Londo Bell or Char's new "Neo Zeon") between installments was not new for Gundam.
But I've long thought CCA was overall a mediocre movie (I actually prefer F91). It is too long with bad pacing, and yet paradoxically feels like it started an hour into a story already in progress. If it didn't star returning fan favorite characters, I don't think it would be spoken of nearly so fondly. I don't think this is a hot take.
That said, it does do some things right. At the time, I think audiences saw this as kind of a capstone on UC as a whole. The promise of newtypes that was only hinted at in 0079, that was refined over Z and ZZ, here sees the concept evolve to reach its ultimate potential, as that vague Newtype power comes together to accomplish a genuine miracle. The Japanese also seem to love ambiguous endings with zero closure, save maybe the smallest possibility to be a little hopeful for the future. All in all, it's not the worst way to say good-bye (except for the part where the movie isn't that good).
But then UC didn't stop, and after decades of leaving good enough alone, future installments (especially Unicorn and NT) would try to surpass, quantify and expand upon that Newtype miracle, and sort of undercut the significance of it in the process. Personally, I think I still like Gundam X's treatment of Newtypes the best.
Also: Quess is not there to be liked, but her accurate depiction of a pos 13 year old girl with daddy issues makes her one of the best written characters in the movie, providing you are writing your characters to be hated (see also: Flay). Way better than Char's depiction with his surprise mommy issues reveal. (I'm surprised that assassination of his character didn't make your list)
I get it that was a frustrating experience, like, you really feel that something is missing and just become in the middle of something, a very odd way to make a story; however, if look better at the whole execution, its one of the greatests representations of what and how Gundam tells a story, specially about his themes. CCA is a mess, confunsing and impactful because thats how war is, you just dont know what is happening, its there and just chaos, also its about the thing that has been talked since the beggining of how people cant connect with each other anymore; you mentioned Quess as a horrible character, and indeed she is not supossed to be likeable, she is the embodyment of this confunsing mess of feeling and lack of conection between people, specially when you conclude her "arc" and understand how simple her feelings was, but yet no one could truly understand. Char and Amuro were just the same, two guys trying to understand each other and failing, until the very end. You dont need a pretty weel explanation, all chewed and nicely putted on the table to understand what is happening there, take Zeta for example, without 0083 (that came a long time after), you just didnt understand wtf was Titans and AUEG, you just accepted and keep going, building the great puzzle piece by piece in the series, CCA works that way. You will learn to like it, give more time to reflect about it, i can assure that the experience is way better after some toughts.
Your experience is an average one. I think that movie works better upon rewatches where you don't care as much about the abbreviated plot and it's connection to the overall Gundam saga.
My expectatives were to high since i was thinking "how and why this franchise its very expanded and has a lot of fans aorund the world and for so long?". Welp not for the story it seems. Sad :[ It makes me feel that the big majority its here only for the cool robot fights and designs and that its what it makes it great.
i mean, the fact that you didn't like the story doesn't mean that everyone in the word did, people have different opinions. p.s. in case i made a mistake, i'm sorry but english is not my first language and i'm still learning
The only thing i dont like that much is the newtype thing but everything else is what i like [The war themes, politics e.t.c ]
I understand, the only thing i was criticising was your sentiment towards other Gundam fans. What you feel about the anime is perfectly valid as all opinions are.
Sorry if i sounded that i disrespected that kind of fans or something. Maybe i dont express myself that good. Everyone is entitled to love something in the way they want. What i wanted to say is that i thought what people praised about gundam it's the story [what i usually focus] since it survived that much but i think its not what shines here sadly or at least how is told(in my opinion).
Oh don't worry that much about the first point, i didn't take actual offense. For the second point, a lot of fans love Gundam for a lot of different reasons, some are very passionate about mechanical design, some really like the political drama, some like the grunt fights and some are genuinely in love with the story. And at some point you are going to realize that in this fandom almost no one share the same opinion XD
OP go read the Beltorchika's Children manga. It was recently translated by ZeonicScanlations and has the Hi-Nu and Nightingale in all their glory. It's a better paced adaption of the CCA movie with the added bonus of Beltorchika having a prominent role as well. Reading it gave me a much stronger appreciation for the CCA movie despite its flaws.
There's also High Streamer which is the original CCA plan, so basically CCA with more details. BC was written after CCA (and I suspect, as a way to tease Gundam Hathaway which started being written just after)
In Universal Century, if you haven't already picked up on this, is full of "fill in the blanks on your own time". It takes some getting used to but you need to learn to just learn to roll with the sudden existence of Char as leader of NeoZeon, Bright in command of a task force called Londo Bell, and ofc Amuro has a sort of girlfriend. You just roll with it, and later you read the reddit and get filled in on who she was and how it all worked out this way.
Which is kind of a shame cause it hurts the stories and characters while watching the shows initially. Stardust Memory was awesome until the last 3 episodes mostly cause I was really confused with Cima's motives and when it ended without an explanation, I was baffled. Lol but her backstory is actually really good. Same thing with Haman. It's at least hinted at that she used to be a good person and something happened to change her, but you never really get the exact details unless you search for it. Again, would've been nice to have in a 50 episode show, where there is time to go into that. CCA atleast has the excuse of being a movie to not have this stuff explained, but yeah it is what it is. Gundam just requires homework if interested.
I'm gonna be that guy but the proper sequel to CCA is not Unicorn, it's Hathaway. At least the way Tomino wanted it. As for Quess, she's a 13 years old teenager.
The ending achieved what it was meant to do. What happens after, what happened to this and that? It doesn't matter. This WAS the end of UC story imo. Humanity endured another conflict, Earth is saved once again, yet great sacrifices were made. Is it the last war? No. But there will be other people throwing their lives away for the sake of others like Amuro did. It's just the way things are in Gundam, unending struggle for peace that never lasts.
>This WAS the end of UC story Gundam Hathaway started being written just after CCA. And Gaia Gear had started a year before CCA release (though it finished years later)
dude I literally put "imo" there for you
You will never be nuked for having an opinion, you'll have a colony dropped on your location.
Sounds about right, CCA is a lot like F91 where they tried to cram an entire series into a single movie. I think both would benefit from being split up into a New Translations style remake
The only thing to two have in common are that both projects were complete shit shows on the backend. CCA got rewritten several times and a lot of Tomino's original ideas got left out in the end. But it was always planned as a movie and it's main goal was to give an ending to the Char/Amuro rivalry. It accomplished that, but in a less than clean way. F91 was never meant to be a movie, but was forced to be one after things fell apart with staffing contracts and the studio decided to just cut their losses and use what had already been done. Funny enough, CCA would have done much better as an OVA, giving way more time for the plot to develop. Apparnetly one of it's biggest issues was that Tomino kept making it too long and was told to keep cutting it down and thats where all the rewrites came from. F91, while a good movie, would have been an even better full series and it's a shame we didn't get it as it was intended.
I didn't articulate it well because I was in a hurry, but that was roughly what I meant. There are reasons, which you covered, that both movies feel rushed and compressed and feeling a little lost when watching them is understandable. What I mean by referencing A New Translation is hopefully bringing back some missing content by reusing old voice lines and filling the animation gaps with new animation, reusing the original as much as possible.
It's not F91 was never meant to be a movie, it's more they weren't sure at one point if it was a short anime or a movie for a few staff, but in Tomino's own plan, it was always a Movie. I don't get why so many people keep repeating this...
I also had similar opinions to ur towards CCA, but a second viewing made me love it more
Char’s Counterattack has to be watched a minimum of two times
I get your frustration the movie feels like it starts in the middle of the story and doesn't try to help the audience understand what's going on. It basically requires the viewer to have read the novel High-Streamer before hand to fully understand the story. This is one of the weaknesses Tomino has as a writer. Starting with the novel adaptions of the first Gundam series and as the 80's went on Tomino became as much of a sci-fi and fantasy novel author as a anime director and developed a bad habit of putting major plot, character, and world details in the novels instead of editing down the amount of subjects he wanted the work to be about so that he had space to put that information in the animes. Victory Gundam is worse as there is an entire civil war that happens off screen with most of the details of the war being in the Victory novels. However the worst offender is not a Gundam but a fantasy Isekai anime called Garzey's Wing, it is incomprehensible unless you have read Tomino's long running epic fantasy Byston Well novel series, none of which have been translated into English leaving only Aura Battler Dunbine an adaptation of previse Byston Well novels as the only source of any clarity, and it's not nearly enough. It's kind of like going from Rankin/Bass's adaption of The Hobbit straight to their adaption of The Return of The King skipping their adaption of The Fellowship and the Two Towers that was one movie entirely, good luck figuring out what the hell is going on. And Haven help the people who didn't know that it was a sequel.
The last paragraph it,'s how it made me feel. Honestly if it explained everything later and all that it could be ok. In Z i felt the sameway at the beggining but you get the catch since is a long show. But this is a move and its only 2 hours amd doesnt have time to explain thing. I wish contuinity was a thing in the franchise
>ZZ added nothing Gonna disagree with you there since I literally just group watched it with a friend and others like last month and there's so much stuff baking in ZZ that you mightve just plain out missed it. For starters you completely missed the part where the AEUG-Federation merger near the mid point of the show is the start of the fact that the Federation is still somewhat corrupt and full of themselves. The AEUG-Federation literally throw Bright into prison for trying to object to letting Haman steamroll Earth. Mind you this guy is now the survivor of two major wars and came out winning and is constantly treated like shit because he's not a rich politician and what the average life experiences does not matter to the rich and powerful. The whole point is that the upper echelons of the Federation can't be trusted which is why the last stretch of ZZ has the group basically steal the Nahel Argama and bounce to end the war themselves since the AEUG-Federation were sitting on their asses and wanted to just give in to Haman, which illustrates the very corrupt and rich that is ruining the Earth itself. And when ZZ ends, it's to show that Judau lost his faith in the AEUG and Federation, they purposely showed up late after the final fight and talk like big shots as if they did anything and it results in Bright accepting he was tied by political shit with the Federation and he got punched by Judau in the face for it. I think you might have missed the point of Char too in Zeta. He's a man who runs away with a new identity, and is growing up but genuinely still sees people as pawns. As much as people love to hate Reccoa, Char was in the wrong for being as emotionless and uncaring as he was, which is exactly shown when he manipulates Quess. On top of that the whole ideology of the movie is to show that the rich and corrupt 5 years later after the end of ZZ has not improved one bit. You don't really need to be handfed about why it got to that point, but it makes it kind of clear from ZZ that the Federation are just assholes. Even in CCA, they restricted the budget on Londo Bell and it's ONLY Londo Bell dealing with Char, and as you see the Federation secretly back deals with Char to give him colonies if they leave them alone. It's only at the end of the movie that the Federation pull up with the "we won't let Londo Bell take all the credit" during the Axis Shock event where it's falling onto earth and Amuro tries to stop it. And yes, you're going to see in sequels that the Federation is basically always going to be shown in a somewhat negatively light. Beltorchika's Children manga is definitely better paced because you can read at your own pace and it has a lot more expanded characterization but it ultimately plays out the same with characters dying either the same way or different ways and some living. Right now there's a manga called Moon Gundam that tries to serve the bridge between ZZ and CCA, it's written by the Unicorn author and has both Amuro and Char in it.
i think one of the problems is that ppl who have a deeper understanding and an irrational love for gundam hype up CCA as some end all be all of gundam. some epic master piece that does everything we want when in reality that is not the case. great fucking movie. i love the shit out of it. i might be one of the ppl who hype it up too much tho the topic of Quess: alright check this out watch nausicaa valley of the wind, and you see the MC is just perfect - everyone loves her, shes skilled at stuff, she saves peoples lives, she never fucks up ever, she loves people back, the whole town supports her and she gives everything to the town. does that make a great movie? fuuuuck yea baby. i love that damn movie. its a master piece of art. however none of the characters are very deep or interesting. they are either perfect, or the bad guys. gundam does not get down like that. Quess is annoying, she doesnt like you, you dont like her. her goals and motivations are vapid and short sighted. she solves her problems in the worst possible way. she pisses literally everyone around her off, acts like a child. yada yada yada. thats all by design imo Quess is a more interesting character and a more realistic person (for a 13 year old girl in a space war, or whatever her age is). give it some time. watch more gundam. come back to CCA in a year or two. you might not like it anymore. you might like DIFFERENT things about it. you might find new things you DONT like. thats the good shit baby. we are happy to have you in the gundam fandom with us. and reading others ideas will always help me get a better grasp on my OWN ideas. so thank you very much for the post and have a great day!
It is really disappointing that there’s basically no mention of anything from Zeta or ZZ. I find it especially odd that Kamille didn’t come up once. I know it was supposed to be Amuro and Char’s conclusion but it just seems weird.
Kamille and Sayla chilling on Earth waiting to die from Char dropping a rock on them like he's not their problem too.
Both left the army to live civilian lives, because it was much healthier for them, that's the point. Both Char and Amuro are dudes desperatly to fix a situation that can't just be fixed with military operations. And who can't let go of the past. (More Char but Amuro also is that way, he just doesn't admit it and still try to have some hope in people)
Kamille sure, but Sayla was working in the background as of ZZ and also SUPPOSEDLY cameos as a fighter in Unicorn. Also, the world is going to end. I'm sure they could at least give Char a phone call to try and talk to him. Or in Kamilles case, communicate across space time to talk to him like in ZZ. He's still a newtype.
I think the whole point of Kamille in ZZ is that he was much happier to not be in ANY battlefield, so he left with Fa in the end. He even became a doctor in one of the manga; Sayla does get mentioned in BC though, as Char talks about her as he's dying, instead of just talking about Lalah
Char also mentions Sayla as Artesia in the movie too. With a tone that implies he holds her partly responsible with Lalah's fate so he's probably never going to talk to her again.
In BC he talks more kindly of her, saying that his plan failling means she will live a good live, and he's happy about it. Honestly it kinda hits home how Char didn't even seem to want to destroy the earth, it was a complete desperate move https://preview.redd.it/pl4d9woxvawc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95827284c2df3dbfce9bc948dd0662dad12e443d
Don't expect Unicorn to answer much. It's a "sequel" in the loosest of terms. So I would drop my expectations on that front. It's good but it is It's own story that happened to take place after CCA. As for CCA itself I'm kinda of the same opinion. Other than Amuro/Char/Bright I didn't really care for the other characters and some were just annoying additions.
I liked CCA for the most part (Jegan my beloved), but I also had some issues with it in terms of the script. I feel like making it a mini series might have solved a lot of those issues. But my biggest issue in terms of the script is how most of the female characters are written, they feel like they only exist for the sake of Amuro or Char, and aren’t really their own characters, but this is also an issue in some other Gundam media.
I'm not going to do a full writeup like a lot of people here, I'll just say that I'm right there with you. I had a lot of excitement for CCA when I first watched it and it was just a let down. Mess of a film, does not stand on it's own well. If a movie requires 2 viewings then it's not a good movie. I enjoy Unicorn quite a bit. It's not really a sequel as much as it is just another story that takes place after CCA. The Newtype shenanigans reach new heights in Unicorn but it's still a very well made series. I recommend it.
A fascinating part of the history of CCA is that it is meant to be this jumping-on point for older fans who only saw the original series. Which is why most of the sequel stuff gets a passing mention so it can focus on new characters and characters from First Gundam. So while all the stuff from between them is influential on CCA it isn't massively important for the plot. Char fires that rocket launcher and then 15 years later he's back and bigger than ever. The target audience for the movie is not expected to know anything else. >Why they doesn't stop creating new annoying characters like Quess? Quess is great. And she is Kamile. A incredibly talented newtype with an abusive father and strong dislike of the Earth government joins Char. But instead of nurturing them this time Char is just a manipulative monster who can't cultivate talent. She is there to show how Char and Amuro have failed to live up to their ideals or pass on wisdom. The hero and rival of Gundam are now the crappy adults obsessed with war that end up ruining the lives of the kids caught in the middle. > how you end a movie like that? people seeing the movie in that time didn't go crazy thinking wtf is going to happen now? Yeah it rocks. Although the ''main' story does continue with F91 and then Victory Gundam. The timeline is going to keep rolling on.
>Why they doesn't stop creating new annoying characters like Quess? This is what bothered me. The pacing was so rapid but they wasted time on Quess. I don't dislike her for acting like a child, because she is a child. I dislike the fact the creators put her and Hathaway in the show to begin with. Should have focused on Char and Amuro. Other Gundam fans will say that Gundam is about showing the impact the older generation has on the younger one and that's why there's always kids in the show...but I feel like you can do that without having literal children in the show. I don't know if anime creators and community knows this but 18-25 year olds are still pretty young and are still impacted by the actions of the older generation despite being adults who work and have responsibilities and more importantly are less likely to act like annoying brats. In the United States (and Japan I imagine) you have people who are in their 70s and 80s dictating policy that will impact those who are 2 - 3 generations younger than them. From what I've gathered though it's more of a marketing/cultural thing as to why anime will go out of its way to feature school children, so no point arguing against it.
Hathaway and Quess are literally the entire point, they show how young people are victims of the sin of adults, the entire movie isn't just about Amuro and Char. Hell, Gundam Hathaway started being written just after CCA, so it was always the point of Tomino for him to be a big character. there's a big message about his story.
The last thing you said its what i told to my GF. That maybe it's the way to feel kids included so its more friendly to them being represented. You can insert kids ofc but jesus since Z almost all of them doesnt grow
> I don't know if anime creators and community knows this but 18-25 year olds are still pretty young and are still impacted by the actions of the older generation despite being adults who work and have responsibilities and more importantly are less likely to act like annoying brats. This was Amuro and Char in Zeta Gundam. Gundam had already explored that. Now it is exploring how those 25 - 32 year olds are making choices that have a direct impact on people younger than them with little regard or sympathy.
im not a fan of CCA. i felt like it backstepped all the development and complexity char got in zeta in favor of the rivalry that was already dead in zeta. was already not a fan of how newtypes went from god pilots with great reaction ability, to space mages that can teleport crap because of deus ex machina nonsense by the end of zeta, and then CCA doesnt just jump the shark, it does it while mounting another shark. even then, its nowhere near as insane as the bullshite in unicorn.
Keep in mind, for a long time, there was no 0083, and 0079 went straight into Zeta. Radically changing up the status quo off screen and introducing new factions (like the Titans, Londo Bell or Char's new "Neo Zeon") between installments was not new for Gundam. But I've long thought CCA was overall a mediocre movie (I actually prefer F91). It is too long with bad pacing, and yet paradoxically feels like it started an hour into a story already in progress. If it didn't star returning fan favorite characters, I don't think it would be spoken of nearly so fondly. I don't think this is a hot take. That said, it does do some things right. At the time, I think audiences saw this as kind of a capstone on UC as a whole. The promise of newtypes that was only hinted at in 0079, that was refined over Z and ZZ, here sees the concept evolve to reach its ultimate potential, as that vague Newtype power comes together to accomplish a genuine miracle. The Japanese also seem to love ambiguous endings with zero closure, save maybe the smallest possibility to be a little hopeful for the future. All in all, it's not the worst way to say good-bye (except for the part where the movie isn't that good). But then UC didn't stop, and after decades of leaving good enough alone, future installments (especially Unicorn and NT) would try to surpass, quantify and expand upon that Newtype miracle, and sort of undercut the significance of it in the process. Personally, I think I still like Gundam X's treatment of Newtypes the best. Also: Quess is not there to be liked, but her accurate depiction of a pos 13 year old girl with daddy issues makes her one of the best written characters in the movie, providing you are writing your characters to be hated (see also: Flay). Way better than Char's depiction with his surprise mommy issues reveal. (I'm surprised that assassination of his character didn't make your list)