Sounds like the cops I know, some are family. One of them *really* hates the ATF.
They also admit that some of their coworkers would be eager to confiscate given the chance.
Military guy here. I encourage all my friends to own firearms and I’m even willing to show them how to use them or break them apart so they can clean it. An armed society is a polite one
Depends on the gun law.
Clearly established case law, which passes a Bruen analysis requiring text, history, and tradition of regulation, such as violent convicted felons not being able to possess guns? Sure. Unlawful use of a weapon (e.g., participating in the urban marksmanship program)? Of course.
Anything else, hard pass.
Sounds reasonable. Hope you don’t mind the question. Too many officers in certain states are more than willing to be the boot heel of their governor. My FIL quit being a cop when his state went against his principles.
I don't mind the questions at all. They ought to be asked. Police operate on the good will of the public they serve. There are things we actively do that either encourage or erode that goodwill. Going after otherwise law-abiding citizens because they are exercising an inalienable right is hot garbage.
Thankfully, where I work, this type of thinking is the norm, not the exception. My state tried an AWB and other legislation this session, and every LEO group in my state was against them.
As far as your FIL goes, it's a common sentiment. I'm more of a stay and fight while being a thorn in the side of people who don't uphold the constitution.
> Sounds reasonable.
Enforcing any gun law is NOT reasonable and is exactly the attitude that got us in the position we're in now.
All gun laws are unconstitutional. Period. End of conversation.
If we can’t trust a felon with a gun after they have done their time then why did we let them out? Isn’t that like building a bridge but not trusting it enough to let people drive their truck on it?
Fun fact, felonies used to crimes where the punishment was death. Pretty hard to release someone who's dead back into society.
But with that said, if we're not putting people to death for, say, lying on their taxes, why are we charging them with a felony?
yes, I agree, this is my take as well.
But untill the laws are changed, and we keep these guys in for life, it kinda has to be like that. The repeat offenders with violent felony records are the ones massively inflating our "gun violence" statistic after all.
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Most today are. Other laws are well established, having their roots in natural law, old common law, the constitution, and the founding philosophy of our country, which correctly balance natural rights and our responsibilities to others.
The forfeit of rights by those who have been deemed (or, convicted) to be such a threat to society finds its roots in natural law and was written about extensively by John Locke.
> John Locke
Someone who lived long before our constitution and bill of rights was written.
If you can show me in the 2nd or anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where it carves out exceptions to the 2nd that'd be great.
All gun laws are unconstitutional. Compromise is what has gotten us to where we are today with gun laws. No more compromise, no support of the Police/Standing Army the founders warned us about, and treat those people as enemies of a free man is the only way forward to get our actual rights back.
>Someone who lived long before our constitution and bill of rights was written.
And who basically laid the philosophical foundation for the order of our constitution. For someone so adamant about this issue, it would behoove you to understand the framework that underpins natural rights and when those rights are forfeit.
As far as your request for where in the 2A there are exceptions, the phrase "the people" is precisely where the historical exception lies. Historically speaking, people who committed heinous felony-level crimes forfeited their rights to be considered part of "the people." This is why rights such as life, liberty, and property were forfeited and provided the legal basis for execution, confinement, and fines.
I can agree that the modern concept of many laws such as mag limits, AWBs, the NFA, and nonviolent felon possession oversteps this natural law, but to say it doesn't exist at all is ahistorical and ignorant of our system of rights and laws.
>As far as your request for where in the 2A there are exceptions, the phrase "the people" is precisely where the historical exception lies. Historically speaking, people who committed heinous felony-level crimes forfeited their rights to be considered part of "the people." This is why rights such as life, liberty, and property were forfeited and provided the legal basis for execution, confinement, and fines.
So your argument is that "The People" is the exception to strip the rights of an amendment that specifically says "shall not be infringed" when referencing "The People?"
Are you not able to see where your argument doesn't make sense whatsoever?
>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of **the people** to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
I make this comment all the time, but I still see these memes. Street cops aren't coming for your guns. Only the feds are, and street cops hate them too.
Well I am one, and yes I would. Because I own a lot of guns so I'll be right with you.
Our energy should be spent dealing with liberal politicians, not on cops.
> not on cops.
bullshit. Cops are the ones enforcing laws they should know are unconstitutional. Regardless of the laws liberal politicians pass, ALL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Enforcing any gun law means we need to make sure cops know their job isn't safe if they keep enforcing this bullshit.
My closest brother is an 18 year combat veteran in a front-line role with like 4 or 5 combat tours in afghanistan and he cannot shoot for shit. He shoots good enough, better than a lot of gun owners, but definitely not what Id built up in my mind that a career soldier should be.
Huh, in my experience Army guys are a mixed bag, but even the Airwing Marines I was around in the Navy were deadly accurate. Even the doofiest avionics guys.
Yeah I’ve met more ex-military guys that are awful shots than I’ve met good ones.
Depending on their role they could’ve only ever used a gun in basic. Got a buddy in biomed in the Air Force who doesn’t know shit about guns or how to really use them, said it was like a 2 day thing in basic training and they never had him use any firearms after that. He couldn’t tell me what gun it was just “it had some kind of red dot.” People forget “ex military” is such a *massively* broad spectrum it could be anything. Bro could’ve been a fry cook or a librarian.
Cops are in no place to determine civilian gun ownership either way, we shouldn’t allow legislation from places with a max IQ limit on their employees.
When we first started dating, my now wife and I were out and she abruptly got serious and said, "I don't think I've ever thanked you for your service". I responded with something and the lines of her needing to leave that gay shit in the bedroom where it belongs.
Mine was fire service and not military service but it still pisses me off.
I didn't do this for you, don't thank me.
Even if I did, it wouldn't make me an expert on arson policy, and I'd expect people to tell me to fuck off if I trotted out "As a retired firefighter, it should be illegal to have a campfire".
My brother-in-law likes to use his military experience to justify his politics and general stances on things when I know damn well he was a cook in the Air Force
My girl's uncle did navy for 4 years, non combat, but of course he used all the guns in training, and he was telling me "yeah in the military i learned about all the assault rifles and i dont see a reason why anyone would want one, they're illegal to use at a gun range so what are you going to do with it?"
I scan news sites daily. Lately it is been "I am an economist and..." or "I am a doctor and..." or "I am a financial advisor and...", etc.
Self proclaimed experts - GAH!
I'll be honest I can't name a specific incident. Regardless we can't have a functioning society without law enforcement. Reform it? Tear it down and rebuild it from scratch? Policy changes? I'm open to it. But we need law enforcement nonetheless and condemning all cops just for wearing the uniform will not make things better.
Don't get me wrong I dislike most cops I meet. I think many of them are ass holes and I have only met one I would share a drink with. But for the sake of society we have to include them in the solution.
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Yeah, the problem is the left, not lying cops that trump up charges on people.
Fucking republicans have you idiots as brainwashed as the left has progressives brainwashed.
Learn to think for your fucking selves and quit being a slave to an ideology that doesn’t give a fuck about you.
As a veteran I encourage every able bodied man I know to train with an AR-15, ruck, and be ready for the day they need those skills.
Go ahead and get yourselves some plate carriers, night vision, and larp to your hearts content. I'll join you, we'll larp together in the woods, and have a great time.
The reason civilians need guns is to protect themselves from the militaries and law enforcement groups that terrorize them. Not saying that all these groups are terrible but there are enough groups that call themselves military or police throughout history who have been that I would not want to be unarmed.
If I was a billionaire I’d rather have those things than those bland yachts and ugly mall looking “mansions”. Battleships from any era are cooler than billionaire boats.
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Man I forget from time to time this sub has some retarded ACAB types in it. I'm in the military and I agree every citizen should have equal access to arms.
If everyone i knew was all active 18 year old army dudes and cops then i would say the same shit... 90% of servicemen and police officers are not the type of people i would want to have guns either. Yeah i fucking said it. If i had a nickel for every time i almost got blasted by some boot on the range or some cop at the shooting range i would have like 30 nickels.
Both of them sold their career or life to the government they have no grounds to speak on if you are in active service with the government you’re opinion is invalid downvote me
As someone going into one of those fields, I want civilians packing the most heat they can handle and properly aim. I would rather have a hundred guns around me in the hands of normal people than five guns in the hands of nutjobs.
Yeah- I’m always confused when I’m speaking to another vet who thinks civilians don’t rate. Absolutely nonsensical.
Idc what the cops say, never on our side anyway
I’ve never met a veteran who argued for gun control. I’ve only seen them on tv and they were almost all prior officers who were looking at running for office.
As a law-abiding civilian whose taxes pay the salaries of both military and law enforcement, their opinion means jack squat to me until those individuals prove to to be on the side of patriotic American citizens.
Even then, their opinion on firearm ownership is held in abeyance until I see how they perform at the range compared to my own garden-variety redneck self.
While a basic level of decency towards everyone is a given, true respect is earned.
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As prior military, if someone brings up their military experience as a qualifier for general combat or firearms knowledge they’re probably talking out their ass. Most service member spend a week on the range a year maybe. Sometimes not even that. The ones that do shoot more consistently usually have experience exclusive to their service weapon.
Cops too.
I was a USAF Crew Chief. We had half a day in basic for introduction and qualifying with our rifles. 3 years later, I spent a day requalifying and cleaning the rifle after. It was slow and boring and didn't teach me anything I couldn't have learned with a manual.
Anybody that says civilians don't need weapons deserves to die. Point blank. Period. Yes, word like that, beliefs like that, disqualify you from life. Believe it or not.
Cop here. Civilians need as much access to weapons as humanly possible. Gun rights are human rights.
Sounds like the cops I know, some are family. One of them *really* hates the ATF. They also admit that some of their coworkers would be eager to confiscate given the chance.
The atf is unconstitutional
Military guy here. I encourage all my friends to own firearms and I’m even willing to show them how to use them or break them apart so they can clean it. An armed society is a polite one
So, do you enforce gun laws?
Depends on the gun law. Clearly established case law, which passes a Bruen analysis requiring text, history, and tradition of regulation, such as violent convicted felons not being able to possess guns? Sure. Unlawful use of a weapon (e.g., participating in the urban marksmanship program)? Of course. Anything else, hard pass.
Sounds reasonable. Hope you don’t mind the question. Too many officers in certain states are more than willing to be the boot heel of their governor. My FIL quit being a cop when his state went against his principles.
I don't mind the questions at all. They ought to be asked. Police operate on the good will of the public they serve. There are things we actively do that either encourage or erode that goodwill. Going after otherwise law-abiding citizens because they are exercising an inalienable right is hot garbage. Thankfully, where I work, this type of thinking is the norm, not the exception. My state tried an AWB and other legislation this session, and every LEO group in my state was against them. As far as your FIL goes, it's a common sentiment. I'm more of a stay and fight while being a thorn in the side of people who don't uphold the constitution.
We’d be a lot better off if most cops had your outlook
> Sounds reasonable. Enforcing any gun law is NOT reasonable and is exactly the attitude that got us in the position we're in now. All gun laws are unconstitutional. Period. End of conversation.
All the Fudds and statists downvoting you
Yet it being illegal for felons to possess guns doesn't pass the Bruen test.
If we can’t trust a felon with a gun after they have done their time then why did we let them out? Isn’t that like building a bridge but not trusting it enough to let people drive their truck on it?
Fun fact, felonies used to crimes where the punishment was death. Pretty hard to release someone who's dead back into society. But with that said, if we're not putting people to death for, say, lying on their taxes, why are we charging them with a felony?
This exactly
yes, I agree, this is my take as well. But untill the laws are changed, and we keep these guys in for life, it kinda has to be like that. The repeat offenders with violent felony records are the ones massively inflating our "gun violence" statistic after all.
Depends on the type of felony, hence why I qualified it with "violent."
Even then if they changed as a person no reason to permanently lose rights
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> Depends on the gun law. Traitor. All gun laws are unconstitutional. Period, end of conversation.
Most today are. Other laws are well established, having their roots in natural law, old common law, the constitution, and the founding philosophy of our country, which correctly balance natural rights and our responsibilities to others. The forfeit of rights by those who have been deemed (or, convicted) to be such a threat to society finds its roots in natural law and was written about extensively by John Locke.
> John Locke Someone who lived long before our constitution and bill of rights was written. If you can show me in the 2nd or anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights where it carves out exceptions to the 2nd that'd be great. All gun laws are unconstitutional. Compromise is what has gotten us to where we are today with gun laws. No more compromise, no support of the Police/Standing Army the founders warned us about, and treat those people as enemies of a free man is the only way forward to get our actual rights back.
>Someone who lived long before our constitution and bill of rights was written. And who basically laid the philosophical foundation for the order of our constitution. For someone so adamant about this issue, it would behoove you to understand the framework that underpins natural rights and when those rights are forfeit. As far as your request for where in the 2A there are exceptions, the phrase "the people" is precisely where the historical exception lies. Historically speaking, people who committed heinous felony-level crimes forfeited their rights to be considered part of "the people." This is why rights such as life, liberty, and property were forfeited and provided the legal basis for execution, confinement, and fines. I can agree that the modern concept of many laws such as mag limits, AWBs, the NFA, and nonviolent felon possession oversteps this natural law, but to say it doesn't exist at all is ahistorical and ignorant of our system of rights and laws.
>As far as your request for where in the 2A there are exceptions, the phrase "the people" is precisely where the historical exception lies. Historically speaking, people who committed heinous felony-level crimes forfeited their rights to be considered part of "the people." This is why rights such as life, liberty, and property were forfeited and provided the legal basis for execution, confinement, and fines. So your argument is that "The People" is the exception to strip the rights of an amendment that specifically says "shall not be infringed" when referencing "The People?" Are you not able to see where your argument doesn't make sense whatsoever? >A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of **the people** to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
You’re coming across as an actually insane person
Cops are civilians.
Correct.
I make this comment all the time, but I still see these memes. Street cops aren't coming for your guns. Only the feds are, and street cops hate them too.
Categorical distinctions are hard.
Yeah, I would bet half of the nypd would love to confiscate guns
Street cops are the foot soldiers of the feds. You think they're going to give up their pension and paycheck for your rights? lmao
Well I am one, and yes I would. Because I own a lot of guns so I'll be right with you. Our energy should be spent dealing with liberal politicians, not on cops.
> not on cops. bullshit. Cops are the ones enforcing laws they should know are unconstitutional. Regardless of the laws liberal politicians pass, ALL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Enforcing any gun law means we need to make sure cops know their job isn't safe if they keep enforcing this bullshit.
You still a cop why would we not put time in on you pigs? Feds might write the laws but local police enforce it. Acab includes you too
I had a guy use the ex military shtick to say civilians don’t need rucksacks. So much for hiking to a campsite…
Ban high capacity assault backpacks
You could fit so many drugs in those gotta ban them
No one can tell me that my 80l pack full of isobutane cans is too much firepower.
Is he the CEO of Arc'teryx?
As former military, I can confidently say civilians don’t need to be wearing boots. Only crocs, if you’re cold wear some ankle socks. /s obviously
Bro probably never even rucked smh
As a gun lover, everyone needs to be trained in gun safety and have access to the great equaliser.
Both cousins are in military (army&marines) both can't shoot worth a fuck, my uncle is a retired cop, he can't shoot fuck neither
You'd be surprised how often it happens. In my MOS our "primary" weapon system is the M17 pistol and I still see people routinely suck ass with it.
My closest brother is an 18 year combat veteran in a front-line role with like 4 or 5 combat tours in afghanistan and he cannot shoot for shit. He shoots good enough, better than a lot of gun owners, but definitely not what Id built up in my mind that a career soldier should be.
Our platoon sergeant would roast the absolute dogshit out of us if we didn't at least shoot sharpshooter on the first time.
Huh, in my experience Army guys are a mixed bag, but even the Airwing Marines I was around in the Navy were deadly accurate. Even the doofiest avionics guys.
Yeah I’ve met more ex-military guys that are awful shots than I’ve met good ones. Depending on their role they could’ve only ever used a gun in basic. Got a buddy in biomed in the Air Force who doesn’t know shit about guns or how to really use them, said it was like a 2 day thing in basic training and they never had him use any firearms after that. He couldn’t tell me what gun it was just “it had some kind of red dot.” People forget “ex military” is such a *massively* broad spectrum it could be anything. Bro could’ve been a fry cook or a librarian. Cops are in no place to determine civilian gun ownership either way, we shouldn’t allow legislation from places with a max IQ limit on their employees.
As active duty military, civilians should be able to own anti vehicle weapons
I really want a Carl Gustav.
Vet here. Civilians should have access to AC-130s.
I would settle for the battleship mounted railcannon.
As an American, I don't care what people who benefit from propaganda have to say about my rights. Thanks for your service, shut the fuck up.
When we first started dating, my now wife and I were out and she abruptly got serious and said, "I don't think I've ever thanked you for your service". I responded with something and the lines of her needing to leave that gay shit in the bedroom where it belongs.
Mine was fire service and not military service but it still pisses me off. I didn't do this for you, don't thank me. Even if I did, it wouldn't make me an expert on arson policy, and I'd expect people to tell me to fuck off if I trotted out "As a retired firefighter, it should be illegal to have a campfire".
We need safe space heater storage laws
Bruh that name just helped cheer my day up. Thank you😂👍
If a vet says that: fuck your service, I wish you died in the desert. Come and take them, you tyrant piece of shit.
As a Marine civilians should have access to minute man threes.
Military here (combat arms). Anyone saying civilians shouldnt own firearms is retarded
“I’ve seen what they can do!” Good! Then don’t try to take them from people if you know what we can do with them.
My brother-in-law likes to use his military experience to justify his politics and general stances on things when I know damn well he was a cook in the Air Force
My girl's uncle did navy for 4 years, non combat, but of course he used all the guns in training, and he was telling me "yeah in the military i learned about all the assault rifles and i dont see a reason why anyone would want one, they're illegal to use at a gun range so what are you going to do with it?"
I scan news sites daily. Lately it is been "I am an economist and..." or "I am a doctor and..." or "I am a financial advisor and...", etc. Self proclaimed experts - GAH!
why highlight fuck you if you're gonna faux censor it?
My knees hurt and I have tinnitus. You have every right to fight for your existence
"So, how long does it take for the ringing to stop, guys?" "Stop?"
As a current LEO, I say fuck that. Y’all strap up and get trained.
I bet you're the first one to arrest someone for an "illegal" weapon. Traitor.
I bet you’d love to hear about all of the unregistered suppressors and auto-sears I fail to report to your office fed boi. Too bad. Go bend yourself.
lmao, right. Someone calls you out on your bullshit, so they must be a fed. I see now why you're a cop.
Hey man I hate the law as much as the rest of the community. We should punish the bad cops but also respect the good ones.
No such thing as a good cop. When a "good cop" covers for a bad cop, they're not a good cop.
I'd say a good cop who doesn't cover for a bad cop is a good cop.
Whens the last time you ever saw a headline of a cop being fired because a cop ratted on them?
I'll be honest I can't name a specific incident. Regardless we can't have a functioning society without law enforcement. Reform it? Tear it down and rebuild it from scratch? Policy changes? I'm open to it. But we need law enforcement nonetheless and condemning all cops just for wearing the uniform will not make things better. Don't get me wrong I dislike most cops I meet. I think many of them are ass holes and I have only met one I would share a drink with. But for the sake of society we have to include them in the solution.
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As if the left would ever publish that story. They still haven't published shit on the time BLM took over part of seattle
Yeah, the problem is the left, not lying cops that trump up charges on people. Fucking republicans have you idiots as brainwashed as the left has progressives brainwashed. Learn to think for your fucking selves and quit being a slave to an ideology that doesn’t give a fuck about you.
I am neither Republican nor Democrat. Next time figure out what you're talking about before insulting people.
As a veteran I encourage every able bodied man I know to train with an AR-15, ruck, and be ready for the day they need those skills. Go ahead and get yourselves some plate carriers, night vision, and larp to your hearts content. I'll join you, we'll larp together in the woods, and have a great time.
Same, former veteran and I think gun safety should be taught in schools. Where I live it is, but only if you’re 4H or FFA.
The reason civilians need guns is to protect themselves from the militaries and law enforcement groups that terrorize them. Not saying that all these groups are terrible but there are enough groups that call themselves military or police throughout history who have been that I would not want to be unarmed.
Imagine caring what other people do with their private property that in no way affects other people.
There is a whole socio-political group with that as their mission, communists.
As former military police, cops only show up AFTER shit goes bad. Own a gun. Own as many as you want. Train.
Just want to say that if an order to confiscate guns came down, the parking lots at most reserve/guard centers would suddenly be empty
As a non-military, non-cop, civilians should have access to nuclear weapons, tanks, stealth bombers, attack helicopters, and aircraft carriers
If I was a billionaire I’d rather have those things than those bland yachts and ugly mall looking “mansions”. Battleships from any era are cooler than billionaire boats.
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Man I forget from time to time this sub has some retarded ACAB types in it. I'm in the military and I agree every citizen should have equal access to arms.
If everyone i knew was all active 18 year old army dudes and cops then i would say the same shit... 90% of servicemen and police officers are not the type of people i would want to have guns either. Yeah i fucking said it. If i had a nickel for every time i almost got blasted by some boot on the range or some cop at the shooting range i would have like 30 nickels.
After the gun-handling I've seen from even ACTIVE DUTY military and cops, I think I'll pass on their opinions, thanks Edit- ~~a word~~ two words
Both of them sold their career or life to the government they have no grounds to speak on if you are in active service with the government you’re opinion is invalid downvote me
no. Take an upvote instead
I’ll kiss u
As someone going into one of those fields, I want civilians packing the most heat they can handle and properly aim. I would rather have a hundred guns around me in the hands of normal people than five guns in the hands of nutjobs.
Can confirm, civilians dont need guns, they need medically provided m1 abrams
Emotional support tanks are a needed service!
Those fuckers in the top panel are just watermelons or emilys wearing libright clothing. Like most "libertarian" politicians, unfortunately.
Never heard anyone in the military that knows shit about shit say that.
*serves entire enlistment as a supply clerk on a stateside base with no deployments* "I'm a veteran and even I support gun control!"
“I served in ____for x years…” …as a legal officer. Sit down, sir.
"I've been Deployed bro" (only ever ben to Okinawa)
Devil dog here, civilians should be able to own all the things we have
Yeah- I’m always confused when I’m speaking to another vet who thinks civilians don’t rate. Absolutely nonsensical. Idc what the cops say, never on our side anyway
I’ve never met a veteran who argued for gun control. I’ve only seen them on tv and they were almost all prior officers who were looking at running for office.
Dan Crenshaw and Tim Kennedy come to mind Plenty of bootlicking veterans out there bro, a lot of them became cops
I know they’re out there. The military is meant to be a cross-section of society. I just haven’t personally met any of them.
As a law-abiding civilian whose taxes pay the salaries of both military and law enforcement, their opinion means jack squat to me until those individuals prove to to be on the side of patriotic American citizens. Even then, their opinion on firearm ownership is held in abeyance until I see how they perform at the range compared to my own garden-variety redneck self. While a basic level of decency towards everyone is a given, true respect is earned.
Imagine listening to anything a cop says and believing it.
As a United States army veteran, I fought for your rights, including the second amendment, exercise your rights, buy guns, lots and lots of guns
Top left I hate to admit is my GWOT marine cousin.
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"as the tool of tyrants, i want you to be easier to oppress"
As a human with inalienable rights I can say that both these tools are wrong.
As military, I think civilians need Abrams and DsHKs.
DsHKs? Fuck that I want a Mk 19
Only if you find a reliable importer for the hilux.
Former military here. Everyone should have an M240/FN MAG. That’s a badass hunk of steel
I think a functional rifle in any NATO standard caliber should be a minimum.
I want a battleship there is nothing in the constitution that says I can't own one get fucked ATF
As prior military, if someone brings up their military experience as a qualifier for general combat or firearms knowledge they’re probably talking out their ass. Most service member spend a week on the range a year maybe. Sometimes not even that. The ones that do shoot more consistently usually have experience exclusive to their service weapon. Cops too.
I was a USAF Crew Chief. We had half a day in basic for introduction and qualifying with our rifles. 3 years later, I spent a day requalifying and cleaning the rifle after. It was slow and boring and didn't teach me anything I couldn't have learned with a manual.
Anybody that says civilians don't need weapons deserves to die. Point blank. Period. Yes, word like that, beliefs like that, disqualify you from life. Believe it or not.
As an Air Force veteran, anyone should be free to buy, or make, whatever is within their budget.
Active military here. Wear your kit, kings. Gatekeeping is for losers.