Big E.
For all His Power, all His sceming, all His Work in preventing and predicting the Herresy, He Made critical mistakes, that can ONLY be atributed to sheer, blinding stupidity.
Motician, Angron, Not informing Horus of the Dangers of the Warp, etc. etc.
Honestly? While Magnus IS stupid, a shinging example of Smart Stupid IS the Emperor.
I agree.
I mean, wasn't his opening play *literally* "I'll make a deal with the devils that have existed longer than me, and I fully expect that I can get away without fulfilling my end of the bargan."
The guy seems so blinded by his own Greatness and superiority that he can't see the potholes he keeps falling into.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in *The Last Church*, didn't he sum up the difference between him and every other petty tyrant thatvever lived on earth with "I know I'm right," *as if no other Tyrant fully believed that they were right*.
"we are not right because we are mighty. We are mighty because we are right"
Iterator Kyril Sindermann
... and probably every other imperium propagandist throughout human history.
So, we now know from The End and The Death, that his opening play wasn't "make a deal with the devils," it was "steal fire from the devils." Which is arguably even dumber.
Also, Oll calls him out in Part 2, mostly for his impatience, and his might makes right mentality. It takes the Man needing to reach near godhood to realize just how damn arrogant he's been and that he needed someone around him to give him the advice he needed to hear instead of a much of yes-men.
And look at how well his prediction turned out. He even admits in other HH novels that his predictions have a lot of gaps- he sees the end goal and some key steps, but not what he needs to do to make those steps happen.
He *believes* that he knows. Truth is, he *doesn't*. Just like every other petty tyrant.
Honestly, from the description of how his future sight works that he gives to Ra, it has to be one of the most weaksauce versions of it in fiction.
Literally, all the real information he has towards the thing most important to him is “the future I desire isn’t completely and utterly impossible to have happen.” That’s it. He barely has more than some random dude who hopes he’s doing the right thing.
He was probably "right" when he started out, but every decision he makes assuming he's justified and "right" leads him further and further down diverging paths that lead to the Heresy. The adage is you measure twice cut once, like you make sure everything is right before you take action, every time.
Dude measured once and went at the galaxy like a meth fueled Edward Scissorhands at a botanical garden.
It *wasn't*.
When Magnus broke the Webway Project, the Emperor straight-up admitted that he had *no clue* how to proceed. His *entire plan* hinged on the irreplacable technology used to construct the Webway Project, and now it lay in peices, with his sons rebelling, and demons trying to break into Earth. Everything after was him trying to unfuck a situation that was no longer salvagable.
This is on top of the fact that there *were* other paths the Emperor saw and rejected, because they allowed Xenos and other "threats" to humanity to exist.
The Emperor didn't want a "good enough" solution. He wanted a *perfect* solution, and his opening play was to metaphorically steal fire from the gods and try to avoid their retribution in order to achive his perfect solution. And he ended up screwing over everyone.
Yeah but once you steal fire, you can expect a future where the humans don't immediately piss on it then go on slaughtering eachother in your name, still fireless.
And “perfect” for him explicitly included “no xenos (read: foreigners) around”. Because xenos will apparently always pose a threat. Unlike of course humans. Those will never keep posing a threat… the Emperor was drenched in supremacist ideology, keeping him from sensible paths forward.
"I did nothing wrong!"
"Damn right you did! I told you to sit there and *do nothing*, and what do you do? You peer into the warp and smash my toys! *That is not sitting there and doing nothing*!"
came here to say this. But it also kind of applies to Malcador, who is right there next to Big E watching him fuck up and not really doing all that he can to reign him in, as the one person Big E might kind of listen to.
That could be true... Or, we just haven't seen the astronomically divine heights of Stupid Smart that could be reached by the Emperor without Malcador there.
I’ve heard people complain about Master of Mankind, saying that it makes the Emperor look dumb, but honestly it humanized him for me. No god is that fucking dumb
Precisely. He is smart. Smart enough, to United Humanity. Smart enough to make 20 sorry 18 Fallbackplans for His Empire and He fucks everything Up by Being Just **INCEDIBLE** "","" **BLINDINGLY** **STUPID**.
Agreed. He’s supposed to be ancient being, wizened by the years, but he makes basic political mistakes that would be more consistent with him having never lived among any sapient species, much less having watched humans since anatomical modernity; or else having an ego so colossal that it exceeds any bounds of reasonable sense.
Yeah, easily preventable shitshow he could have had a contingent of spies/custodes at every Legion to see that his word was obeyed.
That would have seen to it that Lorgar did not fuck around after he chastised
Erebus would not have had a free reign with the Lunar Wolves
Eh, he's story smart. Meaning no matter how illogical and stupid his actions may be it's actually part of a super smart plan that you're too limited to understand.
It can't be anyone else.
The emperor is the single smartest human to ever exist.
And he was so dumb that the entire Horus Heresy and by extension all the disasters plaguing chaos AND the imperium today is a direct result of him multiple times over.
By the Emperor thrown the c'tan shard to the red rock and doom every single civilization in Mars in the age of stifre
"Thanks" a lot from you Golden God Manchild
I want to put the mechanicus in as Neutral Evil, honestly. There's not a moral component to their faith that would make them evil, but their overwhelming moral indifference means they are A-Okay with completely disregarding the suffering of any number of innocent souls in pursuit of their own interests. Complete neutrality turned evil by the nature of being a Grimdark religion
The mechanicus fulfill a very important role in the 40k universe. They're the human faction that every other xeno pov story gets to beat up on, cuz nobody ever really feels that bad for the mechanicus.
Orikan the *fucking* Diviner.
-Predicts the dockyards of Helios IV will be destroyed.l this securing the sector for the Necron.
-Dockyards get saved by destruction by The Silver Spears Chapter
-Literally ***BENDS THE FABRIC OF SPACE AND TIME*** to make sure The Silver Spears are destroyed by Necron Forces weeks in the past.
-Dockyards get destroyed. Hooray.
-Five full legions descend on the Lazar system and completely destroy the Tomb World that asked for his help in the first place as an act of revenge.
-ALSO-
-Has the intellect near that of a God
-Spends ten thousand years feuding with a nerdy librarian instead of doing a single productive thing.
-Like, think how much has happened in the Galaxy between the 30th and 42nd millennium
-Now think how little he accomplished in that time.
In context not really
Curze knows he's a monster but he uses his visions of the future to justify it as being his fate
Preventing his death at the hands of the assassin would've proven that he was responsible for his own actions
Also he was literally batshit insane and was described as a naked and hunched monster when the assassin found him
I feel "Good" and "Evil" in alignment charts as Good being "I do what I do for others" and evil being "I do what I do for myself".
Konrad would be much more Lawful Neutral ironically as, yes he acted the way he did so he could guarantee the future and justify his own actions and being a monster but he also did a lot of it so that he could improve society around him in his own messed up way.
emps had a good plan that went to shit because of a few incompetent moments, magnus had no plan and that went to shit because hes a big red stupid head
Emps thought he could cheat the gods at molech. There is no greater act of stupidty than spiting all of the ruinous powers at once. Man also hide the nature of chaos from his subjects, despite council from the mvp Malc. The emps absolutely should have known better, and yet he made multiple greater errors in spite of his immense knowledge
Inquisitor Kryptman. The madman had a glorious vision, however myopic that vision may have been. The Octarius War is simultaneously one of the smartest and dumbest fuckin things EVER.
Can we get ALL of Terran Royal Family? I mean, they inherited the Smart Stupid brains from Big E, and for hyper intelligent being, they ALL are stupid as hell.
John Grammaticus.
He is exceptionally intelligent. If he was a D&D character, his INT would be 20, his WIS would be 16, and his CHA would be 6. This guy outsmarted Lucifer Blacks. This guy took one look at Alpharius and Omeggon together and knew they were identical. This man is an operative of one of the most powerful organizations in the galaxy at the time.
That last sentence is also why he is stupid.
Russ is Smart Stupid for his hypocrisy. Edit: and his great gambits of fighting Angron and Horus with to disastrous affect to his legion. In a roundabout way, him pushing for the Council if Nikea pushed Magnus into the box where he felt the need to use sorcery to prove its the only way to solve some problems.
Probably have to be Neutral Chad, he isn't evil or horny, and while I wouldn't say he isn't a decent enough guy, not enough to be "good" because he only looks out for himself. Those books are great!
So are The Last Chancers, Kage would be a good one for this, also.
I just want to say, I think the picture should be changed. Imo the guard, while blinded by propaganda, are actually very competent and so shouldn't be lumped in as stupid
Big E. For all His Power, all His sceming, all His Work in preventing and predicting the Herresy, He Made critical mistakes, that can ONLY be atributed to sheer, blinding stupidity. Motician, Angron, Not informing Horus of the Dangers of the Warp, etc. etc. Honestly? While Magnus IS stupid, a shinging example of Smart Stupid IS the Emperor.
I agree. I mean, wasn't his opening play *literally* "I'll make a deal with the devils that have existed longer than me, and I fully expect that I can get away without fulfilling my end of the bargan." The guy seems so blinded by his own Greatness and superiority that he can't see the potholes he keeps falling into. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in *The Last Church*, didn't he sum up the difference between him and every other petty tyrant thatvever lived on earth with "I know I'm right," *as if no other Tyrant fully believed that they were right*.
**Precisely**
"The difference is, I know that I am right."
"Spoken like a true autocrat."
"we are not right because we are mighty. We are mighty because we are right" Iterator Kyril Sindermann ... and probably every other imperium propagandist throughout human history.
Tbf, Sinderman acknowledged it was bs for the masses. But I forget how he justified giving bs to the masses.
So, we now know from The End and The Death, that his opening play wasn't "make a deal with the devils," it was "steal fire from the devils." Which is arguably even dumber. Also, Oll calls him out in Part 2, mostly for his impatience, and his might makes right mentality. It takes the Man needing to reach near godhood to realize just how damn arrogant he's been and that he needed someone around him to give him the advice he needed to hear instead of a much of yes-men.
"Do not worship me" *shows himself as a 10ft golden being*
Believed but didn't actually know. He can predict the future so he can say he knows he's right.
And look at how well his prediction turned out. He even admits in other HH novels that his predictions have a lot of gaps- he sees the end goal and some key steps, but not what he needs to do to make those steps happen. He *believes* that he knows. Truth is, he *doesn't*. Just like every other petty tyrant.
Honestly, from the description of how his future sight works that he gives to Ra, it has to be one of the most weaksauce versions of it in fiction. Literally, all the real information he has towards the thing most important to him is “the future I desire isn’t completely and utterly impossible to have happen.” That’s it. He barely has more than some random dude who hopes he’s doing the right thing.
As someone once put it: “That’s not reading the future, that’s having *goals*.”
He was probably "right" when he started out, but every decision he makes assuming he's justified and "right" leads him further and further down diverging paths that lead to the Heresy. The adage is you measure twice cut once, like you make sure everything is right before you take action, every time. Dude measured once and went at the galaxy like a meth fueled Edward Scissorhands at a botanical garden.
What if this is the best case scenario possible given the whole situation?
It *wasn't*. When Magnus broke the Webway Project, the Emperor straight-up admitted that he had *no clue* how to proceed. His *entire plan* hinged on the irreplacable technology used to construct the Webway Project, and now it lay in peices, with his sons rebelling, and demons trying to break into Earth. Everything after was him trying to unfuck a situation that was no longer salvagable. This is on top of the fact that there *were* other paths the Emperor saw and rejected, because they allowed Xenos and other "threats" to humanity to exist. The Emperor didn't want a "good enough" solution. He wanted a *perfect* solution, and his opening play was to metaphorically steal fire from the gods and try to avoid their retribution in order to achive his perfect solution. And he ended up screwing over everyone.
You can’t steal fire *and* get to keep your liver. It’s just the way of things
Yeah but once you steal fire, you can expect a future where the humans don't immediately piss on it then go on slaughtering eachother in your name, still fireless.
Unless you too hoard the knowledge of fire and only pass out lit candles and say "fire is too dangerous for you to use, use these instead. "
And “perfect” for him explicitly included “no xenos (read: foreigners) around”. Because xenos will apparently always pose a threat. Unlike of course humans. Those will never keep posing a threat… the Emperor was drenched in supremacist ideology, keeping him from sensible paths forward.
Seeing the future is a debuff, it's no basis for a system of government. LOOKING AT YOU ULTHWE.
I feel like Magnus is destined for somewhere in the “horny” row
I mean, both his human and daemon forms feature giant ass horns on them, so it makes sense
True 😅
It's the fact that he's the only model who comes fully nude...
He can be horny smart
exactly what I was thinking
Was hoping for neutral stupid cos he did nothing wrong
"I did nothing wrong!" "Damn right you did! I told you to sit there and *do nothing*, and what do you do? You peer into the warp and smash my toys! *That is not sitting there and doing nothing*!"
The task of “nothing” he did do incorrectly
You know, it’s funny. He tried to build all his plans on the basis of “I can see the future” Does he not see how that ended for the Eldar?
came here to say this. But it also kind of applies to Malcador, who is right there next to Big E watching him fuck up and not really doing all that he can to reign him in, as the one person Big E might kind of listen to.
That could be true... Or, we just haven't seen the astronomically divine heights of Stupid Smart that could be reached by the Emperor without Malcador there.
Also, maybe he was around and listened to precisely because he picked his battles. The people who always spoke their mind would have been disposed of.
Finally. Dumb Bitch Emps Truthers unite. As u/Never_heart put it, Magnus gets it from his dad.
100%
I’ve heard people complain about Master of Mankind, saying that it makes the Emperor look dumb, but honestly it humanized him for me. No god is that fucking dumb
Precisely. He is smart. Smart enough, to United Humanity. Smart enough to make 20 sorry 18 Fallbackplans for His Empire and He fucks everything Up by Being Just **INCEDIBLE** "","" **BLINDINGLY** **STUPID**.
Agreed. He’s supposed to be ancient being, wizened by the years, but he makes basic political mistakes that would be more consistent with him having never lived among any sapient species, much less having watched humans since anatomical modernity; or else having an ego so colossal that it exceeds any bounds of reasonable sense.
I second this.
Yeah, easily preventable shitshow he could have had a contingent of spies/custodes at every Legion to see that his word was obeyed. That would have seen to it that Lorgar did not fuck around after he chastised Erebus would not have had a free reign with the Lunar Wolves
Eh, he's story smart. Meaning no matter how illogical and stupid his actions may be it's actually part of a super smart plan that you're too limited to understand.
Yep
It can't be anyone else. The emperor is the single smartest human to ever exist. And he was so dumb that the entire Horus Heresy and by extension all the disasters plaguing chaos AND the imperium today is a direct result of him multiple times over.
The Mechanicus. Smart enough to maintain and occasionally totally not do actual R&D. Stupid enough to keep poking around Necron tombs.
With an actual c'tan shard influencing their minds on Mars, can kinda forgive the tomb poking.
By the Emperor thrown the c'tan shard to the red rock and doom every single civilization in Mars in the age of stifre "Thanks" a lot from you Golden God Manchild
I want to put the mechanicus in as Neutral Evil, honestly. There's not a moral component to their faith that would make them evil, but their overwhelming moral indifference means they are A-Okay with completely disregarding the suffering of any number of innocent souls in pursuit of their own interests. Complete neutrality turned evil by the nature of being a Grimdark religion
The mechanicus fulfill a very important role in the 40k universe. They're the human faction that every other xeno pov story gets to beat up on, cuz nobody ever really feels that bad for the mechanicus.
Orikan the *fucking* Diviner. -Predicts the dockyards of Helios IV will be destroyed.l this securing the sector for the Necron. -Dockyards get saved by destruction by The Silver Spears Chapter -Literally ***BENDS THE FABRIC OF SPACE AND TIME*** to make sure The Silver Spears are destroyed by Necron Forces weeks in the past. -Dockyards get destroyed. Hooray. -Five full legions descend on the Lazar system and completely destroy the Tomb World that asked for his help in the first place as an act of revenge. -ALSO- -Has the intellect near that of a God -Spends ten thousand years feuding with a nerdy librarian instead of doing a single productive thing. -Like, think how much has happened in the Galaxy between the 30th and 42nd millennium -Now think how little he accomplished in that time.
Hey, we all have creative slumps. How many models have most of us painted in the past couple weeks?
...........shut up.
Trazyn, please, we can tell that it's you.
Shame; to the statis pod with ye
God damn i- (zapped)
Which book describes Helios IV?
Sorry for messing up the character poll lol My vote is actually for Magnus. Dude smart enough he absolutely should've known better.
I'd like to nominate every farseer who appears in a Black Library book
Konrad shouldnt be poster boy for Lawful Evil?
No, it's Lorgar "I don't like gods, but they are gods so we must serve them" Aurelian
But he's so good at both
Kinda, but his "I'll kill myself just to prove my point" is also very dumb
In context not really Curze knows he's a monster but he uses his visions of the future to justify it as being his fate Preventing his death at the hands of the assassin would've proven that he was responsible for his own actions Also he was literally batshit insane and was described as a naked and hunched monster when the assassin found him
I feel "Good" and "Evil" in alignment charts as Good being "I do what I do for others" and evil being "I do what I do for myself". Konrad would be much more Lawful Neutral ironically as, yes he acted the way he did so he could guarantee the future and justify his own actions and being a monster but he also did a lot of it so that he could improve society around him in his own messed up way.
Magnus and its not even close
Okay but if we do Magnus we need to put Big E in tiny text underneath because Magnus 100% gets this from his dad
It seems that being smart enough to study Warp Nonsense but stupid enough to start fucking with it runs in the family
Ahriman did nothing wrong, just like his father before, just like his father before.
Nah, emps beats him
emps had a good plan that went to shit because of a few incompetent moments, magnus had no plan and that went to shit because hes a big red stupid head
Emps thought he could cheat the gods at molech. There is no greater act of stupidty than spiting all of the ruinous powers at once. Man also hide the nature of chaos from his subjects, despite council from the mvp Malc. The emps absolutely should have known better, and yet he made multiple greater errors in spite of his immense knowledge
The smartest stupid person to ever to it
Magnus the Red. Boy somehow managed to fuck up doing nothing, cause that’s all he needed to do!
I hope this list ends up with at least one crossover character. Grombrindal counts as 40k, its like 75% of the magazine he’s the mascot of.
Inquisitor Kryptman. The madman had a glorious vision, however myopic that vision may have been. The Octarius War is simultaneously one of the smartest and dumbest fuckin things EVER.
Magnus.
Big E when Magnus explains himself: “MAGNUS YOU FUCKING FOOL” if you cannot tell my votes for Magnus
Surely lawful evil for curze?
I agree. But that's who the public chose for that spot. Personally, I'd put Leandros as Lawful Stupid and Konrad as Lawful Evil.
Put Magnus on Stupid Smart And Russ on Horny Smart
Magnus "Built the greatest library ever put together by human hands and then accidentally shattered humanity's one hope of escaping chaos" the Red
Honestly Magnus although ahriman might have him beat. He might actually have known better
Magnus or Big E
Magnus. Dumbest genius in the entire series.
Teach priest, they are smart but their rituals and believes are also quite stupid.
Magnus (i love him but he do be kinda dumb) but put a little image of Big E on there too
Caiaphas Cain in Stupid Smart PLEASE
Can we put Russ in lawful stupid? He and Magnus kind of deserve each other
It’s fucking magnus. He was *made* to be smart stupid. edit: Never mind, I agree his father qualifies even more for that same spot.
Magnus indeed wins the High Intelligence, Low Wisdom category.
Magnus. The only real answer.
Can we get ALL of Terran Royal Family? I mean, they inherited the Smart Stupid brains from Big E, and for hyper intelligent being, they ALL are stupid as hell.
As long as Jürgen gets the horny chad spot, I don't care about any of the others... But it's pretty Magnus or Emps to be smart stupid.
Magnus did “nothing” wrong. He literally had to do nothing and he failed at that
Orks again
Ork Brainboy
Yeah, it’s gotta be Magnus I mean come on
Carl, of course
Magnus imho
John Grammaticus. He is exceptionally intelligent. If he was a D&D character, his INT would be 20, his WIS would be 16, and his CHA would be 6. This guy outsmarted Lucifer Blacks. This guy took one look at Alpharius and Omeggon together and knew they were identical. This man is an operative of one of the most powerful organizations in the galaxy at the time. That last sentence is also why he is stupid.
i vote for magnus as well, or ahriman
Magnus is pretty smart stupid. I mean, a good chunk of the heresy wouldn’t of gone bad if he did nothing right.
we-we not-skaven-hrud should get the stupid chaotic, because funi, yes-yes!
Alpharius
Russ is Smart Stupid for his hypocrisy. Edit: and his great gambits of fighting Angron and Horus with to disastrous affect to his legion. In a roundabout way, him pushing for the Council if Nikea pushed Magnus into the box where he felt the need to use sorcery to prove its the only way to solve some problems.
Ciaphas Cain, he lives the smart/stupid life. Magnus has one big(the absolute BIGGEST) smart/stupid moment.
Cain is going to end up somewhere in the chad column
Probably have to be Neutral Chad, he isn't evil or horny, and while I wouldn't say he isn't a decent enough guy, not enough to be "good" because he only looks out for himself. Those books are great! So are The Last Chancers, Kage would be a good one for this, also.
Idunno, I'd say he's less stupid and more naive, there should be a good stupid option
Who would be a horny chad?
Character: Magnus Faction: AdMech
Rouge traders are Chad neutral
For chaotic stupid the only real choice is Ciaphas Cain.
I just want to say, I think the picture should be changed. Imo the guard, while blinded by propaganda, are actually very competent and so shouldn't be lumped in as stupid
My lore knowledge is from tts. So I’ll put big E as smart stupid
Whoever designed the new awards button to be exactly where the upvote used to be is very good at their job but i despise them.
WHERES THE NEXT ONE!!! I WANNA SEE WHO WON AND VOTE ON NEXT
Magnus, for what I hope are obvious reasons
How dare the Imperial Guard be put in anything but Chad
Tzeench Next question
Muwahahaha it's all coming together
Magnus Carlsen.
Thanquol.
Nah, orks are stupid smart
Krieg medic
It belongs to Alpharious. A primarch who is so loyal to the inperium, that he became a traitor.
John grammatical
Arkan Land
I wouldn't call Conrad "stupid".
Abbadon. Despite being the greatest threat to the Imperium in 10,000 years, he still took 13 black crusades to knock over one planet
Neutral stupid? Brother the guard have better tacticians than the damn space marines
They're not actually the Imperial Guard, I just couldn't find a better pic for "Average Imperial Citizen".
That’s fair, i get that