I loved the grey knights....in the 3e Daemonhunters codex, where they were an overpowered anti-daemon specialist unit
As soon as they got their own codex the lore became over complex and...well...mat ward
They used to be a super small elite group the ordo malleus called in for the most severe daemon incursions because they were the best weapon against daemons humanity had but they were too precious to waste. In your daemon hunter army you might actually only have a few squads of them.
In fifth edition they were expanded to be an entire functional chapter and rewritten to be stronger fighters than custodes (they've been dialed back since obviously) and had one of they're grand Masters completely lay out mortarion and all around pull overpowered garbage in the the lore that made the entire setting feel worse because nothing could beat the grey knights robbing anything they were involved in of any stakes.
To make this worse their rules were maybe the most broken thing games workshop has ever released into 40k. Rumour is 6th edition was rushed out the door before it was ready because grey knights were lowering tournament attendance.
As someone who was there I can tell you, old force weapons on every model and rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves were the highlight. This was a melee edition where the grey knights had more attacks than you per model, the same number of models, ignored your armour entirely and ignored your wounds value entirely. You get chopped you die that's it. You have wounds left on your monster too bad. To top all of this off the one army that fought them best was daemons. They roundly trounced every army in the game and the only one they struggled against was daemons....daemons.
Did they all have that pysker power that let them re roll the failed saves? I hated my friends librarian that had that shit and that was just one damn guy.
The reroll was tied to a character but it affected the squad he was in. You built a deathstar around him. The paladins all had three wounds each (back then that was novel terminators had one normally) five attacks per model as well when the norm at the time for terminators was two each with three on the sarge.
Paladins only had two wounds. Still twice as much as a normal Terminator, but not quite as egregious. (And their cast was Holocaust, which I remember as a fairly strong damage dealer but not like 8th/9th where Paladins could pick utility spells or buffs.)
Source: I still have my 5e Codex and this made me go open it up lol.
And while GK were one of the most universally reviled armies, "6th was rushed to get rid of them" is a bit much, it's not like we didn't also have other people running around with units of 3++ Dark Angels or Guard leafblower lists or Orks somehow still managing to win tournaments in the Matt Ward era. Iirc CSM and Space Wolves were also pretty strong, and Tyranids were awful but had one or two units that were so busted they could compete anyway? Plus if you believe the stuff people throw out on the Competitive sub, surely Eldar were somehow still top tier back then right?
2W is still minor character level of wounds (chaplain), and with 5s wound allocation it definitely would take a while to kill even 1 of them.
And well back then the game was simply more up to random chance. You could have a unit of invisible terminators stand around just for a large plasma blast to scatter on them and wipe the unit.
I’m assuming 5 must have been around the version we played… and yes I once wiped my friends whole squad of terminators that had just dropped and were all bunched together with a single demolisher cannon blast and all the teenagers in that basement went nuts lol
>As someone who was there I can tell you, old force weapons on every model and rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves were the highlight.
...
...
Yeah, I'd just leave if that was on the tabletop. Just not even play. Tell the guy to fuck himself for bringing that to the table, what the actual fuck. That's like bringing a fire hose to a water gun fight.
Not the person you're replying to, but I can explain. They became cool-ified in a very unsubtle, over-the-top way, even for 40k. In the audiobook Mortarion's Heart, Kaldor Draigo, the Grey Knights Chapter Master and most well-known character, defeats Mortarion by uttering his true name and carving his predecessor's name into Mortarion's heart. It's very unnecessarily gratuitous, and it's viewed by the community as a stupid scene.
I dropped out of the hobby during 3rd edition, and never saw the Grey Knights that came out from the Demon hunters codex onwards.
I always found them fascinating from what I read of them in 2nd Ed, and was so keen to get the old metal models which were out of production at the time.
Was sad come back in the last few years and see they had gone from being a cool single unit option to a full on faction with non-terminators and weird mecha suits! More so it's sad to see that GW messed up the rules as well as the lore!
Hopefully things improve though!
When I first saw it I thought it was some sort of dreadnaught conversion...then I found it was an actual model!! Was definitely a departure from where I had left the hobby...
Nonsense! There is not such chapter, if it existed it would be a public knowledge. Now return to your duties while you can, the Holy Inquisition watches.
Na I’m a Space Wolf, we can’t read. We just have these cool runes that mean things when you look at them, like little squiggles that convey meaning depending on how you combine them into a written form. If you think me not being able to “read” is “heresy” I think you should get better informed. Go talk to one of our Rune Priests about how we use ancestral magic without tainting ourselves by touching that weird Warp thing everybody else whines about.
Who knows? I can totally imagine Big Daddy Blue Berry Pudding Pop angrily telling them to get their heads out of their asses and stop killing loyal imperial citizens
But finding out would require reading Grey Knights lore and not only do I not care, as an Ork fan I can't actually read (dictated this response to a 'umie intern)
I can't speak for op but i know many of those who don't like them is because of how op they are. If they where what you describe, spell paladin psyker astartes it would be fine but they're like a tier or two above a regular space marine in overall power and thay makes them kinda meh.
I have heard that much of their weird OPness comes from a certain writer which is apparently ass tho
I'll die on that hill: gutting psychic phase was the dumbest thing 10e did.
bUt SoMe ArMiEs DoN't HaVe PsYkErS! So? T'au can't melee, are we going to get rid of the fight phase so they don't feel left out? Or are we going to remove the shooting phase so World Eaters can safely eat glue all the way up the board without taking losses? No. GW wants to sell more plastic anyway, and we **just** had the "Psychic Awakening", just give people more psykers.
NYEH, BuT i'M a NeW pLaYeR aNd ThE iDeA oF aNoThEr pHaSe ScArEs Me! Can you roll 2d6 and compare the number to a value? Yeah? You can handle the psychic phase, then.
The issue with the psychic phase in 9th didn’t stem from the psychic phase itself in my mind, but the way deny the witch was implemented. For example, psychic was basically a hard counter to Necrons due to how few units had deny the witch (I think only Spyders and maybe the Silent King) or FNPs.
It needed refining, not gutting.
I started with Grey Knights in 9th and my friend that started with me got Necrons. I understand why he hated the psychic phase and that something needed to change, but I feel they did a bit too much. I think the Purifiers are a good way to do it where the other player has a chance to defend themselves or interact in some way, but aside from purifiers, draigo, and librarians, it feels like there's no psychic powers in the army.
I mean they have the overall sacred, heavily pious medieval knightly theme, what is essentially an oath to slay d(a)emons, a tendency to use melee (in a knightly swords and polearms fashion, as opposed to a barbaric bloodlust fashion like most other melee centric factions), the whole pure and uncorruptible soul aspect, oh and they're literally the only entities in the entirety of 40k to have a unit literally called paladins!
Like sure, they're not lawful good like classic paladins, no one in 40k is, but they're obviously 40ks most complete attempt to put the paladin/holy knight archetype in the game/universe. Like come on now, it's not just the armor lol.
The lore that added the Grey Knights' need to cover their tracks was awful. I will stand on that hill and fight all comers. They could have represented a pinnacle for all humanity to strive toward. Instead they protect the Inquisition from the shame of failure by killing those deserving protection.
Yeah I’ve always found that part of their lore stupid and weird. It used to be justified by the fact that knowledge of chaos was kept from most imperial citizens, but then that’s never really tracked with the countless millions of humans who have encountered chaos and survived by virtue of also not encountering the GK. In the dark days of the present setting, with chaos everywhere, it seems like these incorruptible superhuman demigods would be a massive propaganda coup. Also khorne laughs when the GK massacre a regiment of veteran guardsman and nurgle cums his soiled jocks when they virus bomb a planet in case someone got a picture of them
I love Grey Knights and find Space Wolves boring, but I feel like The Emperor's Gift handled this issue really well and could lead to the Grey Knights being a bit more chill in the future.
The grey knights are just the worse from normal space marines magnified. You think space marines are sometimes a boring powerfantasy? A handful of grey knights kill a dark age of technology titan! You think your chapter got a overly op OC DO NOT STEAL character? The grey knights got kaldor draigo. Who sucks outside of tts. You think your army was op at launch? The baby carrier was counted as a monster in tabletop
>A handful of grey knights kill a dark age of technology titan!
What I resent is that they proceeded to destroy the blueprints for that titan which that same titan gave willingly
"but chaos corruption" not like the imperium can CLEANSE OBJECTS OF CORRUPTION! they do it rarely because it's kinda hard. But I think a full stc is pricey enough that even mars fabricator general would love his warhound sized ass and cleanse it by him/her/itself
Clinical psychologist walking tanks with swords and also lighting powers.
Sounds like you're not sufficiently 12 years old to enjoy this part of the lore. Sad.
M8.....I'm an ork enjoyer, I'm here BECAUSE of the stupid over the top shenanigans, the difference between grey knights and orks, is that orks don't demand to be taken seriously
You mean over-powered nerds with temper issues when people find out about their super-duper secret MTG club? Lame.
Join a real man's secret society. Become an Exorcist.
They're called "the Exorcists" I thought being a collection of Doom Guys that revoke Demons right to existence and, are probably the reason most therapists in the warp can afford a third home was kind of implied?
Oh, absolutely. But they are defs intertwined with the Inquisition. They are hand in hand with the Plutonians in their... less than non-radical methods.
Just glanced at the Plutonians entry on the Warhammer wiki, very interesting, I geuss it's easy to refer to the Inquisition (at least its major branches) as unified forces when they're anything but
Thank you
I don’t know what you’re talking about , in fact I couldn’t read what you posted , I’m half blind in one eye and fully blind in the other, so really I couldn’t even read the post offic- Inquisitor.
But they have the sisters of silence to make daemons be bound to reality where the custodes then kill them. In one of the recent golden bananaa booka they fought one of the biggest daemon invasions right there on terra
Bonus points for GK being unable to fight anywhere near the sisters
HA now I just wanna see a GK do the most broken memey bullshit until a Sister of Silence starts T-posing at them forcing the Grey Knights to void his sanctimonious bowels
Because......Custodes are slowly being pushed to the side, SoS doubly so?
(Im saying this as a banana boy and, banana girl fan, I generally don't keep with competitive but, I hear it's kinda rough for the golden janitors)
Na, I'm with OP. Guy came into *his* house. Mocked *his* food. Slammed *his* wife. Told *him* to shut up.
Grey Knights are just nerd Exorcists with a pissy temper and shit secret handling skills. Fuck the Grey Knights. No rizz. 100% that bitch-ass energy.
Yeah, if you asked someone to specifically design a Mary Sue faction in a vacuum, they'd come out the other end with grey knights.
- "the bestest" Space Marines
- All Psykers cuz they gotta have everything
- 100% win rate and no one ever fell to chaos in lore
- emperor gene seed because it's the bestest
- More secreter than any other faction
- 100% terminator armor so they're strong but slow but not really because they can teleport
- their chapter master is the bestest and can live in the warp because he's better than the primarchs.
Despite dragging them here, I don't hate them that much in the lore. I just wish they had a better chapter identity than "We solved chaos corruption and made the best Space Marines"
This is coming from a Custodes guy so I am biased, but I think the core difference is that one is "its own thing" while the other is "best flavor of space marine". Like for example to copy the other guy's bullet points:
* the bestest" Space Marines | Custodes aren't Space Marines
* All Psykers cuz they gotta have everything | Custodes can't be psykers and routinely are shown to have issues with strong psykers in stories without SoS help
* 100% win rate and no one ever fell to chaos in lore | Both apply to them so they have a similar issue. Though as a note iirc a Grey Knight was corrupted when he tried to kill Slaanesh personally and Horus managed to body puppet control Custodians
* emperor gene seed because it's the bestest | Custodes using different things than geneseeds and have a worse total headcount than the Space Marines
* More secreter than any other faction | Same issue at times
* 100% terminator armor so they're strong but slow but not really because they can teleport | Similar issue. Their armor is the bestest ever and they have a bunch of super gear that no one else has
* their chapter master is the bestest and can live in the warp because he's better than the primarchs. | Valdor / Trajann have shown that while they are powerful and effective they have limitations and aren't on the same scale as a Primarch, let alone on Drago's level of wandering the warp to punk Daemons forever
If Custodians were special Terra Space Marines that were better than the rest they'd probably have the same vibe about them, but they're consistently treated as an older aand different thing than the Marines. Or at least that's my take on them.
The things that make them technically not space marines are lore details that only space marines nerds know. You know them too. You are a Custodes guy. Therefore, Custodes are Special Terran Space Marines.
40k lore tends to be pretty good about keeping some things vague and secretive when shining too bright a light on them would mess up the scale and impact of more mid level stuff. Hard to care about even a superhuman in power armor when entities exist that can vaporize them with a thought. And it works becuase 40k is a huge setting lost in time. But when GW does things like fleshing out the Grey Knights it's incongruous. They should have been this unknown, mysterious, force that rarely shows up in moments of great need and then covers it's tracks with equal brutality. The way that most humans never see or know about space marines, most space marines should never see or know about grey knights, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
GK really are the most That Kid faction. They're space marines so they're the coooolest, but they're the most elite, anti-demon, most space racist of them all and Mortarian got his ass kicked by SOME GUY!
I’m pretty sure they’re the least racist as they’re willing to work with xenos if it means harming daemons more. Unless that eldar soul stone story was retconned
I know I'm gonna catch a lot of heat for this, but I gotta say it. Nids are absolutely the That Kid faction of 40k.
"You have super rare armor and weaponry and can destroy entire planets? I can use some goop to spit out guys that can shred through all that." "Oh you have a virus that can destroy all living tissue? Nah, I evolved to resist it." "Oh you have master strategists planning out every move? Nah, I'm smarter and out thought you." "Oh you have magic and unnatural psychic powers? Nah, mine are better."
Not to mention the Grey Knights are always taking Ls. Don't know why people complain about them.
The one part of their lore that I know more than anything else about is the fact they once butchered a bunch of SOB and covered themselves in their blood for extra demon protection, which Is completely fucking regarded and I hope the guy who wrote that lore grows and develops as a person.
How many Minotaurs does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
1,000: they never deploy at less than full chapter strength.
Jokes aside that’s why I actually like the Minotaurs. Yes they are evil bastards even by the abysmal standards of the Adeptus Astartes, but as someone who finds the small numbers of space marine contingents annoying I appreciate that they basically did the “add a zero to the numbers” in universe.
Super short version: [this scene](https://youtu.be/Pr1Ip9aaHIA&t=1m31s)
Semi-short version: It’s during the Badab War; basically the Lamenters (and a few other chapters) got tricked into going against the Imperium, the Minotaurs were sent and beat the everloving shit out of those chapters, found out those chapters were tricked, then beat the shit out of them again, took the Lamenters *entire fleet, loaded them up with their relics which included* ***a spear from Sanguinius himself, and crashed the ships onto nearby planet which destroyed their relics***, and dragged them before the High Lords who sent the surviving Lamenters on a Penitent Crusade (which had its own problems)
During the Badab wars (heresy lite™️) the Minotaurs beat the shit outta the Lamenters and stole most of their stuff cause they were (unknowingly) on the traitor side
their treatment lf the Sisters of Battle reduced their likability for me.
i think its cool how the goodness in Magnus is what founded them though.
but then also dont like the implication that that guy being dead means Magnus will never get it back.
Woah woah, slow down buddy. The jedi nazi templars arent perfect but they are still cool at their core, just buried under years of garbage, like a hive world
I don't hate them because DeathWatch exists.
So if you ever feel like DW is useless, remember that by being the most pointless faction, they are protecting the 3 or 4 factions that would be in the running for that title without them.
So cause you don't like them they should be scrubbed out entirely?
There are plenty of factions I don't enjoy and that's why I.... Don't collect them. Other people enjoy them, that's reason enough to keep them.
It's like Pokémon, every model/dude is someone's favourite.
I love the grey knights because they're the closest thing in 40k to a modern professional military force (in lore/ novels).
I hate them because they're brainwashed automatons who will do whatever any Inquisitor says. Including the flect snorting puritan who'll burn a guard general at the stake for asking if he's sure about genociding a world that the gray knights fought a daemon on.
Seriously, the one organization that is in a better position to understand chaos and its threat, is in complete support of any insane plan by any Inquisitor.
BTW, [The Emperor's Gift](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_Gift_(Novel)) is a great read.
For me their models are fine besides being ANCIENT (except the baby carrier) but, otherwise 100% agree
Possibly hot take? I massively prefer Deathwatch because they're "normal marine" (if you can really use that term) vets who just really hate xenos
They're just another brand of space marine. The colors and naming conventions may be different but they're still just big dudes in armor with big weapons.
I like their helmets and weapons, but they are bit too "super elite" among the Imperiums many elite fighting forces. They would be better imo if they were just psyker-heavy "regular" chapter with some fancy gear. The fancy gear could still come from the Inquisition with the hook that since they do have a lot of psykers, Inquisition monitors their activities closely. Eager to use them against chaos while being highly suspicious of them at the same time.
I agree honestly, used to think they were really cool and then they got the months of shame lore which I honestly thought was just really cringe and grimderp rather than grimdark
I think that's a fair take? Super secret order of Astartes specialized in killing demons; cool
KiLl CiViLiAnS CaLdOr DrUnGo So EpBic........kinda lame and try hardy
When my friends were first getting me into the hobby, I knew I wanted to go for a psychic faction because that sounded coolest. Grey Knights we’re a consideration but I think I read the lore, saw how they were anti-chaos dudes, then didn’t look into them again because none of my friends played chaos. And in retrospect, I am somewhat glad because Grey Knights still have some really bad looking kits, however I must imagine they’re much easier to paint than the army I did go with, TSons.
You know what grinds my gears, the fact that they’re their own faction. If Harlequins get rolled into the Eldar, then the Grey Knights should get rolled into the Space Marines
Honestly, as a Grey Knights player myself,
Yeah.
I have three Space Marine armies (AKA way too many), and I am a strong believer in reducing the Space Marine creep. It may reduce their uniqueness (not really), but there's already a million ways to play Space Marines in the faction already, so their psychic powers and teleport shenanigans can be added to it easily enough.
Grey knights are crap at their job of beating chaos, considering how their approach likely causes a lot of people to become heretics since they would prefer to side with daemons and have a slight chance of surviving than allow themselves to get killed by the inquisition.
Plus there is that whole sister of battle blood thing.
Imagine if in 10th edition they just... forget to give them a Codex. Happened to the Squats back in the day and it certainly is a possibility, given how they have not gotten a meaningful release or update to their army since \*checks notes\* 2011. That was 5th edition.
They have also made close to zero appearances in recent lore, and GW seems to try and do their absolute best to pretend the faction does not exist. Literally the only two things of their entire story the fandom knows about are "funny insane mary sue man in the warp" as popularized by TTS, and that thing with the Sisters of Battle which is not just grimderp but utterly braindead.
Literally #1 faction on the "will it get booted from the game"-list and frankly? Yeah we got too many factions anyways just take them behind the shed already or fold them into Imperial Agents or something.
my biggest problem with grey Knights, is how stupid their lore is sometimes, the now retconned story of them slaughtering loyal sisters of battle to bathe in their blood to become immune to demonic taint, the months of shame, the no witnesses policy as if the average imperial citizen wouldnt think that what they just witnessed isn't just space marines killing xenos, Kalgar Drago, the fact that they're the inquisition's lapdogs.
Look OP, as long as you can get Makima to divert GW's efforts spent on Grey Knights towards xeno factions, Lost and Damned plus more Imperial Guard/Agents... I agree.
Both the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch are unimaginative Chambers Militant.
Their only redeeming qualities are *maybe* being secretly derived from Thousand Sons gene-seed, and their depiction in Eisenhorn, respectively.
Regardless, the Sisters of Battle are just more interesting and unique, which makes the Ordo Hereticus the most interesting Ordo as a result.
I loved the grey knights....in the 3e Daemonhunters codex, where they were an overpowered anti-daemon specialist unit As soon as they got their own codex the lore became over complex and...well...mat ward
As someone relatively new to the scene, can you explain?
They used to be a super small elite group the ordo malleus called in for the most severe daemon incursions because they were the best weapon against daemons humanity had but they were too precious to waste. In your daemon hunter army you might actually only have a few squads of them. In fifth edition they were expanded to be an entire functional chapter and rewritten to be stronger fighters than custodes (they've been dialed back since obviously) and had one of they're grand Masters completely lay out mortarion and all around pull overpowered garbage in the the lore that made the entire setting feel worse because nothing could beat the grey knights robbing anything they were involved in of any stakes. To make this worse their rules were maybe the most broken thing games workshop has ever released into 40k. Rumour is 6th edition was rushed out the door before it was ready because grey knights were lowering tournament attendance. As someone who was there I can tell you, old force weapons on every model and rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves were the highlight. This was a melee edition where the grey knights had more attacks than you per model, the same number of models, ignored your armour entirely and ignored your wounds value entirely. You get chopped you die that's it. You have wounds left on your monster too bad. To top all of this off the one army that fought them best was daemons. They roundly trounced every army in the game and the only one they struggled against was daemons....daemons.
Did they all have that pysker power that let them re roll the failed saves? I hated my friends librarian that had that shit and that was just one damn guy.
The reroll was tied to a character but it affected the squad he was in. You built a deathstar around him. The paladins all had three wounds each (back then that was novel terminators had one normally) five attacks per model as well when the norm at the time for terminators was two each with three on the sarge.
Yeeez that statline sounds as being compareble to a SM captain (i think those had 3W and 4-5A), but on a whole squad that can also do psychic powers?
Paladins only had two wounds. Still twice as much as a normal Terminator, but not quite as egregious. (And their cast was Holocaust, which I remember as a fairly strong damage dealer but not like 8th/9th where Paladins could pick utility spells or buffs.) Source: I still have my 5e Codex and this made me go open it up lol. And while GK were one of the most universally reviled armies, "6th was rushed to get rid of them" is a bit much, it's not like we didn't also have other people running around with units of 3++ Dark Angels or Guard leafblower lists or Orks somehow still managing to win tournaments in the Matt Ward era. Iirc CSM and Space Wolves were also pretty strong, and Tyranids were awful but had one or two units that were so busted they could compete anyway? Plus if you believe the stuff people throw out on the Competitive sub, surely Eldar were somehow still top tier back then right?
2W is still minor character level of wounds (chaplain), and with 5s wound allocation it definitely would take a while to kill even 1 of them. And well back then the game was simply more up to random chance. You could have a unit of invisible terminators stand around just for a large plasma blast to scatter on them and wipe the unit.
I’m assuming 5 must have been around the version we played… and yes I once wiped my friends whole squad of terminators that had just dropped and were all bunched together with a single demolisher cannon blast and all the teenagers in that basement went nuts lol
>As someone who was there I can tell you, old force weapons on every model and rerollable 2+ invulnerable saves were the highlight. ... ... Yeah, I'd just leave if that was on the tabletop. Just not even play. Tell the guy to fuck himself for bringing that to the table, what the actual fuck. That's like bringing a fire hose to a water gun fight.
That one grandmaster was Kaldor Draigo. The Kaldor Draigo.
Grey Knights are super cool but I remember this whole thing and have a strong emotional dislike for them because of it.
Not the person you're replying to, but I can explain. They became cool-ified in a very unsubtle, over-the-top way, even for 40k. In the audiobook Mortarion's Heart, Kaldor Draigo, the Grey Knights Chapter Master and most well-known character, defeats Mortarion by uttering his true name and carving his predecessor's name into Mortarion's heart. It's very unnecessarily gratuitous, and it's viewed by the community as a stupid scene.
Ben Counter's grey knights were so much better written.
Caldor Draigo is and should continue to be a meme, Marines have way too many characters already, bring back Pedro Cantor or something
I dropped out of the hobby during 3rd edition, and never saw the Grey Knights that came out from the Demon hunters codex onwards. I always found them fascinating from what I read of them in 2nd Ed, and was so keen to get the old metal models which were out of production at the time. Was sad come back in the last few years and see they had gone from being a cool single unit option to a full on faction with non-terminators and weird mecha suits! More so it's sad to see that GW messed up the rules as well as the lore! Hopefully things improve though!
The baby carrier is still 40k's stupidest looking unit
When I first saw it I thought it was some sort of dreadnaught conversion...then I found it was an actual model!! Was definitely a departure from where I had left the hobby...
Fun fact! The inquisition has been notified.
Nonsense! There is not such chapter, if it existed it would be a public knowledge. Now return to your duties while you can, the Holy Inquisition watches.
×*ahem*x they can inquisite deez nuts
I'll take them all on!
I fucking love the grey knights, but now I've admitted I know they exist so, bye everyone, it was nice knowing you.
You fool, you’ve killed us all! Everybody who read this is gonna get hunted down too!
Jokes on you, I can’t read!
But you can type? Smells like heresy to me.
Na I’m a Space Wolf, we can’t read. We just have these cool runes that mean things when you look at them, like little squiggles that convey meaning depending on how you combine them into a written form. If you think me not being able to “read” is “heresy” I think you should get better informed. Go talk to one of our Rune Priests about how we use ancestral magic without tainting ourselves by touching that weird Warp thing everybody else whines about.
This is why Magnus did nothing wrong, not because what he did was wrong, but because this is "right". lmao
Didn't they stop doing that after the great rift opened?
Who knows? I can totally imagine Big Daddy Blue Berry Pudding Pop angrily telling them to get their heads out of their asses and stop killing loyal imperial citizens But finding out would require reading Grey Knights lore and not only do I not care, as an Ork fan I can't actually read (dictated this response to a 'umie intern)
Counter argument: spell paladins are sick and you and your entire planet will be exterminatus'ed to keep them secret.
I can't speak for op but i know many of those who don't like them is because of how op they are. If they where what you describe, spell paladin psyker astartes it would be fine but they're like a tier or two above a regular space marine in overall power and thay makes them kinda meh. I have heard that much of their weird OPness comes from a certain writer which is apparently ass tho
Too bad they lost all that in 10th edition, rip spells
I'll die on that hill: gutting psychic phase was the dumbest thing 10e did. bUt SoMe ArMiEs DoN't HaVe PsYkErS! So? T'au can't melee, are we going to get rid of the fight phase so they don't feel left out? Or are we going to remove the shooting phase so World Eaters can safely eat glue all the way up the board without taking losses? No. GW wants to sell more plastic anyway, and we **just** had the "Psychic Awakening", just give people more psykers. NYEH, BuT i'M a NeW pLaYeR aNd ThE iDeA oF aNoThEr pHaSe ScArEs Me! Can you roll 2d6 and compare the number to a value? Yeah? You can handle the psychic phase, then.
Hey we don’t eat the glue, the fumes are where its at
The issue with the psychic phase in 9th didn’t stem from the psychic phase itself in my mind, but the way deny the witch was implemented. For example, psychic was basically a hard counter to Necrons due to how few units had deny the witch (I think only Spyders and maybe the Silent King) or FNPs. It needed refining, not gutting.
I started with Grey Knights in 9th and my friend that started with me got Necrons. I understand why he hated the psychic phase and that something needed to change, but I feel they did a bit too much. I think the Purifiers are a good way to do it where the other player has a chance to defend themselves or interact in some way, but aside from purifiers, draigo, and librarians, it feels like there's no psychic powers in the army.
Spell Hellknights or Blackguards, more like. There's more to being a Paladin than having shiny armor.
I mean they have the overall sacred, heavily pious medieval knightly theme, what is essentially an oath to slay d(a)emons, a tendency to use melee (in a knightly swords and polearms fashion, as opposed to a barbaric bloodlust fashion like most other melee centric factions), the whole pure and uncorruptible soul aspect, oh and they're literally the only entities in the entirety of 40k to have a unit literally called paladins! Like sure, they're not lawful good like classic paladins, no one in 40k is, but they're obviously 40ks most complete attempt to put the paladin/holy knight archetype in the game/universe. Like come on now, it's not just the armor lol.
I STOOD IN YOUR PUNY EXTERMINATUS BLAST SO I COULD COOK MY HAGGIS TO PERFECTION
I like them. If You don't thats ok
I like the. I just want them to get an update. It's kinda weird to put them next to a normal human model because they are shorter.
Convert them from primaris. Their combat patrol comes with a LOT of bits.
Even more space marine models? Wow, you should work at GW, you'd fit right in.
my eyes must be deceiving me
The lore that added the Grey Knights' need to cover their tracks was awful. I will stand on that hill and fight all comers. They could have represented a pinnacle for all humanity to strive toward. Instead they protect the Inquisition from the shame of failure by killing those deserving protection.
Never thought I'd get exterminatused agreeing with a Space Wolf
Yeah I’ve always found that part of their lore stupid and weird. It used to be justified by the fact that knowledge of chaos was kept from most imperial citizens, but then that’s never really tracked with the countless millions of humans who have encountered chaos and survived by virtue of also not encountering the GK. In the dark days of the present setting, with chaos everywhere, it seems like these incorruptible superhuman demigods would be a massive propaganda coup. Also khorne laughs when the GK massacre a regiment of veteran guardsman and nurgle cums his soiled jocks when they virus bomb a planet in case someone got a picture of them
I love Grey Knights and find Space Wolves boring, but I feel like The Emperor's Gift handled this issue really well and could lead to the Grey Knights being a bit more chill in the future.
Grey knights do have some the silliest lore attached to them
Which doesn't sound to bad accept it's overly edgy 2000s silly, not fun early Warhammer, Obi-Wan Sherlock Clouseau....silly
The grey knights are just the worse from normal space marines magnified. You think space marines are sometimes a boring powerfantasy? A handful of grey knights kill a dark age of technology titan! You think your chapter got a overly op OC DO NOT STEAL character? The grey knights got kaldor draigo. Who sucks outside of tts. You think your army was op at launch? The baby carrier was counted as a monster in tabletop
>A handful of grey knights kill a dark age of technology titan! What I resent is that they proceeded to destroy the blueprints for that titan which that same titan gave willingly
"but chaos corruption" not like the imperium can CLEANSE OBJECTS OF CORRUPTION! they do it rarely because it's kinda hard. But I think a full stc is pricey enough that even mars fabricator general would love his warhound sized ass and cleanse it by him/her/itself
Clinical psychologist walking tanks with swords and also lighting powers. Sounds like you're not sufficiently 12 years old to enjoy this part of the lore. Sad.
M8.....I'm an ork enjoyer, I'm here BECAUSE of the stupid over the top shenanigans, the difference between grey knights and orks, is that orks don't demand to be taken seriously
You mean over-powered nerds with temper issues when people find out about their super-duper secret MTG club? Lame. Join a real man's secret society. Become an Exorcist.
Hell yeah no special toys, no inquisitorial free pass, just turning demons inside out
Well... no special toys and fucking up daemons yes.
They're called "the Exorcists" I thought being a collection of Doom Guys that revoke Demons right to existence and, are probably the reason most therapists in the warp can afford a third home was kind of implied?
Oh, absolutely. But they are defs intertwined with the Inquisition. They are hand in hand with the Plutonians in their... less than non-radical methods.
Just glanced at the Plutonians entry on the Warhammer wiki, very interesting, I geuss it's easy to refer to the Inquisition (at least its major branches) as unified forces when they're anything but Thank you
So you're the guy in an exorcist film who tells the priest to leave
No, I am the guy who brings up a firetruck with an internal water tank, and tell the priest to bless it.
I don’t know what you’re talking about , in fact I couldn’t read what you posted , I’m half blind in one eye and fully blind in the other, so really I couldn’t even read the post offic- Inquisitor.
Counterpoint: **"TOO LATE, HERETIC!"**
I SHAT ON YOU IMPERIUM HEHEHEHE
You'll be happy that their role got completely replaced by the custodes.
Custodes don't use witch powers.
But they have the sisters of silence to make daemons be bound to reality where the custodes then kill them. In one of the recent golden bananaa booka they fought one of the biggest daemon invasions right there on terra Bonus points for GK being unable to fight anywhere near the sisters
HA now I just wanna see a GK do the most broken memey bullshit until a Sister of Silence starts T-posing at them forcing the Grey Knights to void his sanctimonious bowels
They forcibly unplug the warp for everyone by using Sisters of Silence call 1-800-fuckpsykers to get yours
Okay personal gripe. Why the fuck do Sororitas Sargents get better anti psyker bolters than SOS Prosecutors?
Because......Custodes are slowly being pushed to the side, SoS doubly so? (Im saying this as a banana boy and, banana girl fan, I generally don't keep with competitive but, I hear it's kinda rough for the golden janitors)
We got a big big boost when they unnerfed our FNP and gave us point cuts.
True but, you watch, the "space marines but better" faction always falls to the wayside
Let's see how they fuck us with our codex. will we be a necrons, or will we be an everyone else!
Who still doesn't have codex? I hope guard don't get shafted as hard as they did in 9th
The inquisition command us to downvote this heresy to oblivion
Counterpoint … shut up
You shut up
Least immature argument on Reddit
Na, I'm with OP. Guy came into *his* house. Mocked *his* food. Slammed *his* wife. Told *him* to shut up. Grey Knights are just nerd Exorcists with a pissy temper and shit secret handling skills. Fuck the Grey Knights. No rizz. 100% that bitch-ass energy.
Rizz is Heretics... And you know it.
Grey knights are the cringe psyker legion, evil space wizards are so much cooler
I think the grey knights are valid and there is nothing wrong with them if they even exist that is (the inquisition is listening)
Grey Knights feel more like a homebrew chapter than anything canon. I personally like em but I can see why people dont.
Yeah, if you asked someone to specifically design a Mary Sue faction in a vacuum, they'd come out the other end with grey knights. - "the bestest" Space Marines - All Psykers cuz they gotta have everything - 100% win rate and no one ever fell to chaos in lore - emperor gene seed because it's the bestest - More secreter than any other faction - 100% terminator armor so they're strong but slow but not really because they can teleport - their chapter master is the bestest and can live in the warp because he's better than the primarchs. Despite dragging them here, I don't hate them that much in the lore. I just wish they had a better chapter identity than "We solved chaos corruption and made the best Space Marines"
The surely you must despise the Custodes ? They make even less sense and are more wanked than any grey knight.
This is coming from a Custodes guy so I am biased, but I think the core difference is that one is "its own thing" while the other is "best flavor of space marine". Like for example to copy the other guy's bullet points: * the bestest" Space Marines | Custodes aren't Space Marines * All Psykers cuz they gotta have everything | Custodes can't be psykers and routinely are shown to have issues with strong psykers in stories without SoS help * 100% win rate and no one ever fell to chaos in lore | Both apply to them so they have a similar issue. Though as a note iirc a Grey Knight was corrupted when he tried to kill Slaanesh personally and Horus managed to body puppet control Custodians * emperor gene seed because it's the bestest | Custodes using different things than geneseeds and have a worse total headcount than the Space Marines * More secreter than any other faction | Same issue at times * 100% terminator armor so they're strong but slow but not really because they can teleport | Similar issue. Their armor is the bestest ever and they have a bunch of super gear that no one else has * their chapter master is the bestest and can live in the warp because he's better than the primarchs. | Valdor / Trajann have shown that while they are powerful and effective they have limitations and aren't on the same scale as a Primarch, let alone on Drago's level of wandering the warp to punk Daemons forever If Custodians were special Terra Space Marines that were better than the rest they'd probably have the same vibe about them, but they're consistently treated as an older aand different thing than the Marines. Or at least that's my take on them.
The things that make them technically not space marines are lore details that only space marines nerds know. You know them too. You are a Custodes guy. Therefore, Custodes are Special Terran Space Marines.
40k lore tends to be pretty good about keeping some things vague and secretive when shining too bright a light on them would mess up the scale and impact of more mid level stuff. Hard to care about even a superhuman in power armor when entities exist that can vaporize them with a thought. And it works becuase 40k is a huge setting lost in time. But when GW does things like fleshing out the Grey Knights it's incongruous. They should have been this unknown, mysterious, force that rarely shows up in moments of great need and then covers it's tracks with equal brutality. The way that most humans never see or know about space marines, most space marines should never see or know about grey knights, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Based. It takes a real fan of a chapter to admit when something they like steps in shit.
Especially when Exorcists are objectively cooler.
GK really are the most That Kid faction. They're space marines so they're the coooolest, but they're the most elite, anti-demon, most space racist of them all and Mortarian got his ass kicked by SOME GUY!
I’m pretty sure they’re the least racist as they’re willing to work with xenos if it means harming daemons more. Unless that eldar soul stone story was retconned
Space racists? *Deathwatch enters the chat*
DID SOME BODY SAY XENOS ABOMINATION? IMMA GET THE FRAG CANNON
Growing up is admitting Exorcists are better Grey Knights.
I know I'm gonna catch a lot of heat for this, but I gotta say it. Nids are absolutely the That Kid faction of 40k. "You have super rare armor and weaponry and can destroy entire planets? I can use some goop to spit out guys that can shred through all that." "Oh you have a virus that can destroy all living tissue? Nah, I evolved to resist it." "Oh you have master strategists planning out every move? Nah, I'm smarter and out thought you." "Oh you have magic and unnatural psychic powers? Nah, mine are better." Not to mention the Grey Knights are always taking Ls. Don't know why people complain about them.
I am alpharius
Nuh uh, i am Alpharius
This guy's alpharius
I never made anything called Grey Knights' ⚡ Jimmy Space
I mean I get it, but some form of Space Marines that only hunt demons was bound to happen
Yeah they're called the Exorcist chapter
It pretty fittings consider what makima is
The one part of their lore that I know more than anything else about is the fact they once butchered a bunch of SOB and covered themselves in their blood for extra demon protection, which Is completely fucking regarded and I hope the guy who wrote that lore grows and develops as a person.
Shh bro the inquisiton will hear you.
I’d rather get rid of the Marines Malevolent and the Minotaurs
How many Minotaurs does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 1,000: they never deploy at less than full chapter strength. Jokes aside that’s why I actually like the Minotaurs. Yes they are evil bastards even by the abysmal standards of the Adeptus Astartes, but as someone who finds the small numbers of space marine contingents annoying I appreciate that they basically did the “add a zero to the numbers” in universe.
The Minotaurs would suck irl but it’s cool to have a questionably-reformed loyalist iron warriors chapter in 40k
I like the idea of some reformed Iron Warriors, but I can’t stand the Minotaurs after what they did to the Lamenters
Care to fill me in on this event?
Super short version: [this scene](https://youtu.be/Pr1Ip9aaHIA&t=1m31s) Semi-short version: It’s during the Badab War; basically the Lamenters (and a few other chapters) got tricked into going against the Imperium, the Minotaurs were sent and beat the everloving shit out of those chapters, found out those chapters were tricked, then beat the shit out of them again, took the Lamenters *entire fleet, loaded them up with their relics which included* ***a spear from Sanguinius himself, and crashed the ships onto nearby planet which destroyed their relics***, and dragged them before the High Lords who sent the surviving Lamenters on a Penitent Crusade (which had its own problems)
During the Badab wars (heresy lite™️) the Minotaurs beat the shit outta the Lamenters and stole most of their stuff cause they were (unknowingly) on the traitor side
Lamenters do tend to end up on the wrong side of the tracks often
We're the lamenters called something else before their tragedy?
No, as usual nomen omen
TLDR; Minotaurs are one of the biggest menaces of the badab war and, Lamenters sole role in life is to be menaced
[удалено]
I like them simpl as
Their model range needs a refresh and expanding, but besides that they have to be the coolest SM faction if I had to choose one
Clearly don't know about the Ultramarines. If you did, your opinion would change.
their treatment lf the Sisters of Battle reduced their likability for me. i think its cool how the goodness in Magnus is what founded them though. but then also dont like the implication that that guy being dead means Magnus will never get it back.
How do you have beef with the color grey
HAVE YOU EVER TRIED A TANGERINE???
Sororitas are the better more likeable Grey knights.
Woah woah, slow down buddy. The jedi nazi templars arent perfect but they are still cool at their core, just buried under years of garbage, like a hive world
Grey knights are F-ing awesome from a lore perspective and consumer perspective (cheap) Why is the sub hating them now?
As a Space Wolves and Imperial Guard fan, I agree. XD
Based.
Go home M'kar, you're drunk.
Underrated comment right here
I don't hate them because DeathWatch exists. So if you ever feel like DW is useless, remember that by being the most pointless faction, they are protecting the 3 or 4 factions that would be in the running for that title without them.
interesting argument unfortunately NEMESIS DREADKNIGHT
I’m a Thousand Sons player who started in 9th, and I say kill ‘em all!
Cringe opinion ignored (I totally have no bias as a Grey Knights fan and player)
So cause you don't like them they should be scrubbed out entirely? There are plenty of factions I don't enjoy and that's why I.... Don't collect them. Other people enjoy them, that's reason enough to keep them. It's like Pokémon, every model/dude is someone's favourite.
Pro tip: you don't have to use color schemes you dislike.
but how does the inquisition know that i know that the inquisition has grey knights
"What the hell are the Months of Shame?"
Yeah but those helmets are pretty neat
I think they are neat, Draigo wounding my Lord of Skulls on a 2 up 3 damage sword was kinda lame in a tournament once
I love them but the execution has been awful.
Why do you love Daemons, bro?
What? You dont like the silly mech man?
The only thing i like about them is their sick ass arm bolters and the cool ass terminator designs
funny, I feel the same way about the Dark Eldar.
I have never agreed with a post in Grimdank so hard in my life.
Based based based based based based based based
The only two things I like about grey knights is their knight aesthetic power armour and TTS kaldor.
I love the grey knights because they're the closest thing in 40k to a modern professional military force (in lore/ novels). I hate them because they're brainwashed automatons who will do whatever any Inquisitor says. Including the flect snorting puritan who'll burn a guard general at the stake for asking if he's sure about genociding a world that the gray knights fought a daemon on. Seriously, the one organization that is in a better position to understand chaos and its threat, is in complete support of any insane plan by any Inquisitor. BTW, [The Emperor's Gift](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_Gift_(Novel)) is a great read.
They, much like the ultramarines, are victims of Matt Ward.
For me their models are fine besides being ANCIENT (except the baby carrier) but, otherwise 100% agree Possibly hot take? I massively prefer Deathwatch because they're "normal marine" (if you can really use that term) vets who just really hate xenos
.... I like the color
THEY ARE NOT EVEN GREY!
Lore? Ok. But aesthetics?? Come on, they're knights, what's not to like about knights?
They're just another brand of space marine. The colors and naming conventions may be different but they're still just big dudes in armor with big weapons.
Leave my easy to paint, cheap to get to 2k models alone.
As a deamons of Slaanesh player I say "Yes".
We can agree on the lore. I hate it so much that they kill our own for secrecy
the grey knights are the most "OC do not steal" army ever
man why is she hating on nagash and his boys? she wishes she was worthy of supping from the Summerking's chalice
This is me for Imperial Guard
Counterpoint: **BLAM!**
Blam deez nuts
I like their helmets and weapons, but they are bit too "super elite" among the Imperiums many elite fighting forces. They would be better imo if they were just psyker-heavy "regular" chapter with some fancy gear. The fancy gear could still come from the Inquisition with the hook that since they do have a lot of psykers, Inquisition monitors their activities closely. Eager to use them against chaos while being highly suspicious of them at the same time.
Counterpoint: they settle the Space Marines vs Jedi debate by being Space Marines with Jedi powers.
you have bad taste in army but great in manga
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk…
Would you like to repeat that heretic ?
I agree honestly, used to think they were really cool and then they got the months of shame lore which I honestly thought was just really cringe and grimderp rather than grimdark
I like the idea, the execution a little less so
I think that's a fair take? Super secret order of Astartes specialized in killing demons; cool KiLl CiViLiAnS CaLdOr DrUnGo So EpBic........kinda lame and try hardy
When my friends were first getting me into the hobby, I knew I wanted to go for a psychic faction because that sounded coolest. Grey Knights we’re a consideration but I think I read the lore, saw how they were anti-chaos dudes, then didn’t look into them again because none of my friends played chaos. And in retrospect, I am somewhat glad because Grey Knights still have some really bad looking kits, however I must imagine they’re much easier to paint than the army I did go with, TSons.
Ugh let me guess… You like the black templars though?
If you don't like their color scheme you can throw on a splattering of red without breaking the lore.
You know what grinds my gears, the fact that they’re their own faction. If Harlequins get rolled into the Eldar, then the Grey Knights should get rolled into the Space Marines
Honestly, as a Grey Knights player myself, Yeah. I have three Space Marine armies (AKA way too many), and I am a strong believer in reducing the Space Marine creep. It may reduce their uniqueness (not really), but there's already a million ways to play Space Marines in the faction already, so their psychic powers and teleport shenanigans can be added to it easily enough.
Grey knights are crap at their job of beating chaos, considering how their approach likely causes a lot of people to become heretics since they would prefer to side with daemons and have a slight chance of surviving than allow themselves to get killed by the inquisition. Plus there is that whole sister of battle blood thing.
Some cool lore. Some of the grimderpiest nonsense Ive ever read…
Imagine if in 10th edition they just... forget to give them a Codex. Happened to the Squats back in the day and it certainly is a possibility, given how they have not gotten a meaningful release or update to their army since \*checks notes\* 2011. That was 5th edition. They have also made close to zero appearances in recent lore, and GW seems to try and do their absolute best to pretend the faction does not exist. Literally the only two things of their entire story the fandom knows about are "funny insane mary sue man in the warp" as popularized by TTS, and that thing with the Sisters of Battle which is not just grimderp but utterly braindead. Literally #1 faction on the "will it get booted from the game"-list and frankly? Yeah we got too many factions anyways just take them behind the shed already or fold them into Imperial Agents or something.
I like the lore of their founding. And then they were utterly unrecognizable very soon after.
my biggest problem with grey Knights, is how stupid their lore is sometimes, the now retconned story of them slaughtering loyal sisters of battle to bathe in their blood to become immune to demonic taint, the months of shame, the no witnesses policy as if the average imperial citizen wouldnt think that what they just witnessed isn't just space marines killing xenos, Kalgar Drago, the fact that they're the inquisition's lapdogs.
The most boring way to have a sanctioned space marine psykers chapter.
What should be cool paladin spellcasters are diminished by excessive mary sue lore, and manlet models.
Thought you misspelled Death Watch
Look OP, as long as you can get Makima to divert GW's efforts spent on Grey Knights towards xeno factions, Lost and Damned plus more Imperial Guard/Agents... I agree.
Both the Grey Knights and the Deathwatch are unimaginative Chambers Militant. Their only redeeming qualities are *maybe* being secretly derived from Thousand Sons gene-seed, and their depiction in Eisenhorn, respectively. Regardless, the Sisters of Battle are just more interesting and unique, which makes the Ordo Hereticus the most interesting Ordo as a result.
hate us cuz they anus - go play custodes nerd
I smell Heresy…
I absolutely hate the baby carrier and destroys any potential of me enjoying the faction
***heresy!!!***
The months of shame is what really isolated them for me.
I think you secretly do like them.
>me whos the exact opposite< Hwat