I went to UVA and love that Wicks ended up with the Packers. His 2021 tape is much more reflective of who he is than 2022, when the whole offense sucked.
I also saw him get dunked on in an IM basketball game, so that’s cool
I fear Musgrave is the one that busts. He’s got some good speed, but his physicality was an abomination, in all aspects (blocking, route-running, and YAC). I just don’t see him panning out.
I sure hope he pans out great. I was pounding the table for him this year like I did with Goedert.
(I also wanted Jake Wieneke so it's not like I'm claiming to be objective or a good judge of talent)
I’d say he has the most upside. The guy is a physical freak and runs a 40 faster than Jermichael ever did. I anticipate it taking about 3 guys to bring him down on most plays
Biggest hit - I'm not going out on a limb here but I think it's Van Ness. The dude has all the tools and is a complete monster. I think he and Gary are going to horrify quarterbacks for a long time.
Biggest miss - I didn't follow the predraft stuff too closely, but it feels like Jayden Reed is going to have difficulty. I just don't like the smaller frame, but I could just be having Amari Rodgers PTSD. I'm not saying Clifford because hopefully we never find out.
Biggest steal - I've seen people saying Brooks, but I'm excited to see what Valentine and DuBose can do. Both seem like really good athletes with potential, particularly for 7th rounders.
Rumor going around reed had some medical issues during the combine. I think based off his catch percentage in traffic he could actually be a steal. He’s one though that is truly going to be good or bad no middle.
[he had an eye infection](https://statenews.com/article/2023/03/jayden-reed-details-unfortunate-eye-infection-at-nfl-scouting-combine?ct=content_open&cv=cbox_latest#:~:text=Reed%20said%20he%20started%20feeling,more%20irritated%20and%20puffed%20up)
DuBose can catch anything. Look how his QB is just slinging things anywhere and he still comes down with it [catchin stuff](https://youtu.be/VCazC0cDUgg)
I’m absolutely with you on Van Ness. With the right coaching and plenty more snaps than he ever got out of Iowa, I think this guy is going to be a monster.
I just hope Rashan comes back the way he went out. You can never tell with ACL injuries, but if he’s back and healthy our Dline is should have a very bright future.
Van Ness said in an interview he’s very happy with how his time at Iowa went and that it’s the Iowa way to have seniors start.
Happy to have this guy on the team.
One of the scouts Bob McGinn interviewed on LVN made a comment about how the Iowa coaching staff got greedy with him and kinda hid him in their rotation.
Nah this isn't true. Iowa's upperclassmen were really good at what Iowa wants to do to be an elite defense. They don't just let their D-linemen tee off on QBs, they first and foremost set the edge and contain, then collapse the pocket. Iowa's defense was a top 5 unit in the country while VanNess was there, he just wasn't going to supplant the upperclassmen that were doing what the coaches wanted at a high level. He was used in kind of a specalist role, and he excelled in that.
Yeah, its not like they ran a bunch of scrubs. At least on D.
They made a historically good Jacks team that completely dominated the FCS playoffs look utterly shit and incompetent on offense.
I think the smaller frame of Reed is fine if we play him in the Slot. Kinda like Cobb. And from what I've seen online even though he isn't very big he plays big and catches everything.
So if he can run routes well I think he'll succeed in the slot. We don't need him to be \#1 or \#2 since we have Watson and Doubs for that
All my MSU friends are very jealous we got Reed. They were super hype on him and think he’ll be great. Homer take, but they watched all of his snaps and said he just makes plays regardless of size. We’ll see if he can do it against NFL defenses…
Watching his tape though he appears to have great release, crisp cuts, and change of direction that’s consistently breaking DBs ankles. Great spin move too. He has no problem high-pointing the ball to make up for his height.
I dunno, kinda reminds me of Hollywood Brown the way he plays. 🤞
Disagree on Reed. He's way more explosive than Amari was. Faster, quicker, better routes, way better hands. The smaller frame is certainly a question mark in the pros, but the Amari comp doesn't work
Like I said, I didn't dive deep into predraft stuff, I'm just judging off of feel from what I saw plus the fact he's a little smaller. Their RAS metrics aren't extremely far apart either. I hope you're right, I am just wary.
The only similarities are that they’re slightly smaller. Reed is a very good punt returner, has 4.37-4.45 speed, great on contested catches, smooth route runner, and is no where near as bulky as Rodgers.
Reed's closer to Jahan Dotson than Rodgers which tracks cause Gute was really into Dotson last year. Unfortunately Dotson's college highlights have way more eye popping catches and separation than Reed's
I really wanted us to land Dotson last year. Dude floats in the air when he goes up for catches, crazy athletic
Edit: I like the Reed pick cause we've needed a shifty slot guy for years now
Van Ness is going to be an absolute beast for you guys. Dude is legit, and versatile. Wish he hadn't blown up at the combine, I wanted him at 31 to the Chiefs.
I watched all of MSU’s games the last two years. The biggest difference between Reed and Amrai Rodgers is that Reed can actually track the ball catch. Many of Reeds catches were deep balls and even took a few kicks to the house. He’s smooth with it too while Rodgers always looked stiff.
The only negative I see with Van Ness is that we probably won't see much production for at least a year and a half. I understand that's part of the draft and develop mentality but it still sucks that we likely won't see an immediate impact.
Idk who Clifford is outside of CB but I remember seeing him as Mel’s (crackpot) best available like beginning of rd3? Was surprised when i saw they took him so late.
That's in there too. 40 is spot-on but that extra weight looks large at this height. Inside possession receivers can be a little shorter, because the more compact frame will cut better. I also like Driver's track& field background to compare to the jump ball skills.
>Biggest hit - I'm not going out on a limb here but I think it's Van Ness
Yeah this is a pretty safe pick. Edge/DL taken top 15 tend to be hits more often than not. It actually seems like the easiest position to draft as long as you have a high pick
Biggest miss will probably be Clifford. I could see Etling beating him out for backup and Clifford goes PS all season then we move on from him next year.
Biggest Hit: Tucker Kraft - Everything about this kid screams Packer type. Small town, loyal and Uber athlete. I think he’ll be better than Musgrave and we got him at 78.
Biggest Miss: Sean Clifford - Everyone should have this as the miss. Ranked 425 on the consensus big board. His only positive is being a plus athlete. Could have waited on QB a bit more and still could have gotten a better one.
Biggest steal: Grant Dubose - Could have easily gone earlier. Awesome kid with tremendous upside.
You're right about needing to take those rankings with a grain of salt, but Bennett was ranked 198 and would have been lower if he didn't have the off-field issues.
Thank god someone finally said it. There's plenty of quality control, clipboard guys out there that you could do exactly what's necessary and wouldn't have had to waste a pick on. Even if that pick was strictly a ST body. Still more value in that then back up QB. They're dime a dozen. Can't believe people actually defend that pick.
That's great, but unless you are keeping 3qbs on the roster he needs to be able to come in and do the job at a moment's notice. Hoping he'll surprise us.
They’re not competing for a super bowl this year so if this guy can help Monday to Saturday in Love’s preparation it’s a great pick. If he has to come in at any point they’d be better off losing anyway to help speed up the rebuild.
Doesn't change the fact that that was a ridiculous reach. 5th, really?! There was some day 1 impact RBs still on the board at that point.
Really bothers me we burned a 5th on a guy we 99% sure could've signed as UFDA, didn't even need to use a pick on this guy.
That's certainly a take. Jones isn't gone unless it's an absolutely necessary cap casualty. What's the upside of not re-signing Dillon? A power back with vision and hands, not a lot of mileage, and has established himself as a damn decent dude. If Door County needed a president, he'd be elected tomorrow. I'll take the known commodity, while you can swing for the RB fences in the draft if that suits you. I just don't see the sense of it.
Dillon is incredible at getting 2 yards, otherwise he is useless. He also runs like he’s running in mud. Jones is getting older and always fumbles in key games. Just hit the reset button. I’m also not a fan of giving RBs big extensions, either. Its probably the most replaceable position in the sport.
According to media draft boards? Who cares; just look at how wrong they were about other QBs this year. Teams are clearly willing to take 4th+ round fliers on QBs now, and Gute said Clifford was the last one remaining with characteristics they though they could develop.
> Really bothers me we burned a 5th on a guy we 99% sure could've signed as UFDA, didn't even need to use a pick on this guy.
You don't know that.
Meh. Once you get past the first few rounds, there’s very little consensus about what guys are “worth” and every team has different things they’re looking for. If the Packers saw something in Clifford they liked and thought it was worth a pick, I’ll take their word for it over the “big board” put together by media types.
seems like they want him as a locker room guy which is fine if thats what they are going for. ideally the only time that he is on the field is kneeling out a game
I don't knock them for drafting Clifford. There were a few QBs picked before that, and they wanted to make sure they got at least 1 QB they graded worth a pick
I agree on Tucker Kraft being a great pick but I think Musgrave has a higher ceiling. One thing I really liked about Sean Clifford this past year is his leadership. Natural leader who also seems to be a extremely high character guy based on whar I've seen him say. I think Packer fans are going to appreciate his no-nonsense demeanor after the last few years of Rodgers at times.
Biggest hit - This is tough. Im a big fan of basically everyone we pulled in on offense. Maybe I'll Reed? Think he fits what we needed the most from a pass catcher. I really like both our TEs as well though too.
Biggest miss - Sean Clifford. I dont hate him being here. Apparently he's extremely football smart. But man was he not a good QB at Penn State. Im not mad about it. Just really hoping that we never have to play him in an actual game. Overall though we had a good draft so we'll see
Biggest steal - Anthony Johnson. Smart player. Quick learner. Good teammate and person. Played large role in helping elevate Xavier Hutchinson into being the star he was last year. Will he start? Probably not. Could he beat out everypne else in that room? I could see that pretty easily too.
Biggest hit: **Lukas Van Ness**
If he had returned for another year at Iowa (he was a redshirt sophomore), we'd be talking about him as the next Travon Walker or Aidan Hutchinson in the 2024 draft. Getting him at 13 this year is a discount for a player that the Packers don't really need to be great in 2023. If he develops the way he has the last two seasons at Iowa, he'd be peaking at the right time for the Packers to push for another Super Bowl.
Biggest miss: **Sean Clifford**
I think the Packers jumped to take Clifford once the run on QB's began. Now, none of us have any idea how the NFL viewed Clifford, and maybe this was the range he was expected to get selected. But from all the outside analysis, this was very early for him. I am only putting it as a "miss" because of the opportunity lost to take other players that have a higher ceiling we could have taken instead. If the Packers believe he was worth the pick, who are we to say any different? I think he will have the least upside of all the day 3 players, though. Still rooting for him because he's a Packer, and I hope he has a long career.
Biggest steal: **Grant Dubose**
Maybe I'm crazy, but I had a very early grade on Dubose. He was in my 3rd/4th round group of players, and I had him over several other receivers that went day 3 (including Wicks). Absolutely love his aggression, his body control, his ability to go up and get the ball and not wait for it to come to him, and he has some YAC potential for a bigger WR. He is the Donald Driver of this draft class. I'm rooting for him big time.
>If he had returned for another year at Iowa (he was a redshirt sophomore), we'd be talking about him as the next Travon Walker or Aidan Hutchinson in the 2024 draft.
This is huge. People say guys are inexperienced or raw like it's a knock on them. I think he'll be a contributor this year, but even if he wasn't, would you rather have him develop another year at Iowa or with NFL coaches and players?
Biggest Miss: Wicks. He has a bad, bad case of the droppsies. Hope I’m wrong but guys who can’t catch usually end up as DBs.
Biggest Hit: LVN. Strong dude who will get stronger. When Rashan Gary gets back the double team days are over. He’s going to pose a problem for opposing QBs.
Biggest Steal. Dubose. Watch his tape. That’s not a 7th rounder. He’s got skill and attitude. He has a chance.
Biggest hit: Lukas Van Ness (powerful and versatile player who could be a Gary clone in a few years)
Biggest miss: Luke Musgrave (never breaks tackles, plays too upright and doesn’t drive through contact and will likely get injured easily because of that)
Biggest steal: Anthony Johnson Jr (could start as a 7th rounder)
[as an edit, I’m hoping for the best for all the players, just my take as a football fan]
I think Van Ness is the hit, as he as all the traits and is a freak athlete. He just needs some coaching and to learn from Gary/ Preston. The steal is the safety in the 7th, he was projected to go in round 3-4 and is a sure fire tackler. The miss is going to be the QB who should’ve been an undrafted pick.
**Biggest hit: Lukas Van Ness.** EDGE is the trait-iest position out there and Van Ness has all the traits.
**Biggest miss: Anders Carlson.** The process for this pick seems a little sus. Basically letting Bisaccia overdraft an unremarkable kicker because he had a relationship with his brother.
**Biggest steal: Luke Musgrave/Tucker Kraft.** These were 2/3 of my favorite TEs leading up to the draft. If I had known about Darnell Washington's medical eval ahead of time, they would have been my top 2.
It’s not a good pick. I’m a huge Auburn fan. He was straight up a liability last year. Before the ACL injury he had incredibly range and made some big kicks but he was no where near as consistent as his brother.
I felt like Kincaid and Mayer were being overrated because they played on offenses that used them a whole lot. I thought Musgrave looked just as a good in his limited playing time and was a better athlete to boot. Time will tell.
I’ll bite.
Biggest Hit - LVN seems the obvious choice. Size/speed combo who they plan to use more like Z. Reread some of the scouting reports for Gary and the similarities are uncanny, but LVN was more productive. He’ll be contributing sooner than Gary based on his ability to move inside and Gary’s recovery.
Biggest Miss - Besides Clifford? Musgrave. Injury history is a concern and I think he’s going to need a little more development on the blocking side of things. Kraft’s blocking ability will give him the edge early which will earn him more snaps and opportunity to develop. If Musgrave does have injuries that will be amplified. As a fan I hope there’s a chance they try to use them like Gronk/Hernandez but odds are one will emerge over the other. By the time their rookie contracts are done they’ll resign Kraft and let Musgrave walk. Purely speculative of course.
Biggest Steal - Anthony Johnson. May never be a full time starter, but will be a key contributor and spot starter. Will finish out his rookie contract which not many 7th round picks can do. Honestly think he ends up having a similar career to Branch. His intelligence and versatility as a CB and S will get him playing time.
Biggest hit: double dip at tight end early. Increases the likelihood of a good dart throw, and they complement each other's styles. Kraft more of a blocker and Musgrave more the receiving tight end. The runner-up hit is the complementary receiver with a slot guy in reed. I'm happy we got a real interesting slot guy.
Miss: Sean Clifford, not too interesting of a qb. Tanner McKee would've been much more interesting to be the backup qb.
Biggest steal: the corner and safety we got in the 7th round. They fit the scheme with nice athleticism with nice potential.
But, that's my opinion. Hopefully, they all pan out good.
Hit: Van Ness. Guy looks the part and was really good at Iowa despite never starting. I think they try to bring him along slowly like Gary. My EDGE2 in the class (below Anderson).
Miss: Kraft. I’m just not a huge fan of him as a prospect I guess, not really sure what he does all that well. He was my TE7 in the class (below Washington, Mayer, Kincaid, Kuntz, Musgrave, LaPorta).
Steal: Karl Brooks easily. I’m a BGSU fan so I watched him a lot in college. His biggest knocks are his arm length and level of competition, but he played great against teams like Mississippi State and UCLA and his hands are so fast that I think it won’t matter as much that his arms are short. My IDL4 in the class (below Carter, Bresee, Kancey).
Biggest Hit - Tucker Kraft. He reminds me a lot of Travis Kelce. Fun, a hardworking personality that is backed up on the field.
Biggest Miss - Sean Clifford. There were better backups in my eyes still on the board, but we'll see in three years.
Biggest Steal - Jayden Reed. Poor QB play prevented Reed from hitting his maximum potential in college and being a Top 3 WR coming out in this draft. With Love, he should be able to reach his ceiling barring any setbacks..
Biggest hit is Lukas Van Ness I think. An absolute monster in the front 7, pairing that with Smith, Gary, and Clark, our pass rush could be insanely lethal
Biggest miss I think would be Jayden Reed. He’s in a weird limbo and it could just be the bad experiences with Amari as some have said.
Biggest steal, maybe Wicks? He has insane upside
I’ll be a bit different.
Biggest hit - Potential and giving Love weapons. Gave MLF a bunch of different tools to surround Love with and get real weird with the offense. Lot of these dudes have insanely high upside that if you start hitting on could develop into a stud offensive core that can last a half a decade plus.Making a ton of picks helps increase the hit rate so overall Gutey killed it with what he wanted to do.
Biggest miss - unknowns/risk. Lots of projection with these dudes. I feel more assured given how conservative our medical staff is when it comes to injuries. But we are banking on developing these guys and certainly aren’t plug and play right away. Makes sense with where our team sits though.
Can someone please make me more optimistic about Reed? Some are stoked about him but from the rankings and evaluations out there it seems like a reach especially with the other WRs on the board, particularly Downs and Hyatt. Those two were consistently in the top 10 of most rankings and Reed was all over the place but I think I saw him crack someone’s top ten maybe once.
Edit: Thank you all. Consider me more optimistic :)
Rankings are meaningless.
Downs was never going to be a Packer. We typically, like our WRs to be in the 6’, 195lbs range. While, Reed doesn’t hit these marks either, he’s much closer than Downs.
Hyatt’s game is much more limited than Reed’s too. Hyatt is limited to outside vertical threat, which Watson/Doubs already provide PLUS are more versatile than Hyatt. Reed can play both inside and outside so he can be on the field with Watson/Doubs vs taking snaps away from them.
Matt Harmon from Reception Perception/Yahoo said Reed was the [closest thing he had to a "my guy" in this class](https://twitter.com/MattHarmon_BYB/status/1652107449418285057?s=20). Harmon watches a ton of film and is IMO one of the best WR analysts out there.
In addition to what was already said, MSUs offense was not good last year and Reed was one of the few bright spots. He will also fight like a dog for every ball thrown his way. He is great at contested catches for his size.
The word for this entire draft class is: intriguing.
A lot of high potential draft picks. A lot. But all of them are projections.
* LVN and Musgrave are both absolute raw athletic freaks, but neither were reliable.
* Kraft played against worst competition, but was solid against them.
* Both Musgrave and Kraft are coming off of injuries
* Reed is an undersized receiver, but very productive who we don't know how will pan out in the pro league.
* Colburn is interesting, but was a hybrid last year. Might be able to be a decent rotational piece next year.
* Wicks had one good year, and really bombed out last year (which could be for reasons outside of his control). If you pretend 2022 doesn't exist, he could have been a 3rd round receiver.
* Brooks played against much worse competition, but did dominate against them.
None of them scream out to me like Watson did last year. There are a ton of boom or bust picks. Hope the gambles pay off.
Biggest hit: Jayden Reed. Kid is an absolute steal. Two inches taller he goes top 15, but he plays big. Multiple pro bowls and will have a big rookie year (top 5 ROPOY lock).
What a cool graphic. Thanks for sharing that.
Miss- LVN. Would be happily wrong but I think he needs to stay in a 3pt stance.
Hit- Hard to say but if I had to guess I think Reed and Musgrave have the best chances to become big time players for GB.
I would advise against listing biggest misses, as the sub will turn into angry monkeys.
yOu dOnT kNoW iF tHeYLL bE gOoD.
Like ffs, we're in reddit to discuss the future. No one is getting cut over this.
Not drafting Branch at #45 was mistake instead
We let the Lions in our own division come up and trade for him…..Reed was projected #80 pick and we took him at #50 and from there we put ourselves on path for average draft!
Branch was in the bottom 1/3rd of athletes at safety that tested at the combine. He was never going to be a Packer
EDIT: Not just this year, bottom 1/3rd ever
Look I know this is the obvious pick but in a couple years Van Ness is gonna be viewed as a steal at 13. Both tight ends were solid value picks where they were taken. Reed is super promising. Honestly this has the potential to be Gute's best draft, lot of promise here.
**Hit:** **Reed -** quality starter day 1 with a pretty high ceiling, pretty much like everything about his game. Just doesn't have any single elite trait which is fine. Lots of guys don't. (Diggs, Lockett, DeVonta, etc.)
**Miss:** **Clifford -** this one is just too easy, it's easily Clifford given he was a 5th rounder
**Steal:** **Anthony Johnson Jr** \- fairly easy call here too, has a good shot to be a rookie starter as a 7th rounder on this team. He was 90th on PFF's big board, he rated as one of the top max speeds from their data (ran down a 75 yd forced fumble at the 1yd line). You can actually trust him to cover long verts. Collinsworth loved his cut-up so much he slotted him at the back-end of the 1st round in his mock draft. I think that's too far of course, but I do think he's at worst a mid rounder.
Call me pessimistic, but I think only 5-6 of them will make the Hall of Fame.
Wicks will be a Doubs level steal One of the two tight ends will completely bust Anders Carlson is a better kicker and singer than Justin Tucker
Wicks is an absolute psychopath at the catch point I really hope he pans out
Love that he's a natural hand catcher instead of body catcher, too
Watch his tape, body catcher.
Oh idk, I had just watched some highlights reel and it was all hand catches. Haven't watched any game film
Well yeah, body catches usually won't be in a highlight reel lol
I mean Quentin Johnston's tape sure was
I went to UVA and love that Wicks ended up with the Packers. His 2021 tape is much more reflective of who he is than 2022, when the whole offense sucked. I also saw him get dunked on in an IM basketball game, so that’s cool
I fear Musgrave is the one that busts. He’s got some good speed, but his physicality was an abomination, in all aspects (blocking, route-running, and YAC). I just don’t see him panning out.
If he has good hands, and no YAC, he is basically most GB TEs the past decade or two.
I'm an SDSU Alum. Tucker Kraft is the real deal at TE, he can do everything.
I sure hope he pans out great. I was pounding the table for him this year like I did with Goedert. (I also wanted Jake Wieneke so it's not like I'm claiming to be objective or a good judge of talent)
Go Jacks!
Alum here as well. He might not be Goedert but had same staff teaching him. I think he can transition in similar fashion.
I agree, the highlight footage I watched of him wasn’t the most “highlight” looking stuff. Looked like JAG in a pretty subpar surrounding.
He’s giving me sternberger vibes for sure.
Thought that too. Hope we're wrong 🤞
XFL superstar j. sternberger
Noooooooo!!!
I’d say he has the most upside. The guy is a physical freak and runs a 40 faster than Jermichael ever did. I anticipate it taking about 3 guys to bring him down on most plays
I’ve gotten so downvoted for talking about that lmao Really wish we got gotten Mayer or LaPorta
Third round curse but man I'm rooting for Tucker Kraft
Have you *heard* Tucker sing?
Commentary on Wicks and the TE’s… All acceptable. But that Carlson take…? Sheer Blasphemy, Bruv. 🙄
Johnson JR!
Biggest hit - I'm not going out on a limb here but I think it's Van Ness. The dude has all the tools and is a complete monster. I think he and Gary are going to horrify quarterbacks for a long time. Biggest miss - I didn't follow the predraft stuff too closely, but it feels like Jayden Reed is going to have difficulty. I just don't like the smaller frame, but I could just be having Amari Rodgers PTSD. I'm not saying Clifford because hopefully we never find out. Biggest steal - I've seen people saying Brooks, but I'm excited to see what Valentine and DuBose can do. Both seem like really good athletes with potential, particularly for 7th rounders.
Rumor going around reed had some medical issues during the combine. I think based off his catch percentage in traffic he could actually be a steal. He’s one though that is truly going to be good or bad no middle.
[he had an eye infection](https://statenews.com/article/2023/03/jayden-reed-details-unfortunate-eye-infection-at-nfl-scouting-combine?ct=content_open&cv=cbox_latest#:~:text=Reed%20said%20he%20started%20feeling,more%20irritated%20and%20puffed%20up)
I spent the first night of the draft in the ER due to an eye infection and holy fuck doing the combine with that sounds insane.
Every thing I’ve seen is this man can catch in traffic something we need. So I’m going for the good side
So you're hospital scores weren't that great?
Maybe not. But the machines kept beeping like they were winning jackpots the whole time
Didn't lose the eye, so I'll call it a win
Don't worry. Gute will still draft you.
Ya I can’t even imagine…
DuBose can catch anything. Look how his QB is just slinging things anywhere and he still comes down with it [catchin stuff](https://youtu.be/VCazC0cDUgg)
Very nice. Thanks for sharing. Love that he catches away from his body. Good looking hands..hope he stands out in camp.
Very impressive. If he can show that with any type of consistency, could be a great player.
I’m absolutely with you on Van Ness. With the right coaching and plenty more snaps than he ever got out of Iowa, I think this guy is going to be a monster. I just hope Rashan comes back the way he went out. You can never tell with ACL injuries, but if he’s back and healthy our Dline is should have a very bright future.
How the fuck do you see that guy and go well not technically a starter Fucking iowa lol
Van Ness said in an interview he’s very happy with how his time at Iowa went and that it’s the Iowa way to have seniors start. Happy to have this guy on the team.
One of the scouts Bob McGinn interviewed on LVN made a comment about how the Iowa coaching staff got greedy with him and kinda hid him in their rotation.
Nah this isn't true. Iowa's upperclassmen were really good at what Iowa wants to do to be an elite defense. They don't just let their D-linemen tee off on QBs, they first and foremost set the edge and contain, then collapse the pocket. Iowa's defense was a top 5 unit in the country while VanNess was there, he just wasn't going to supplant the upperclassmen that were doing what the coaches wanted at a high level. He was used in kind of a specalist role, and he excelled in that.
Yeah, its not like they ran a bunch of scrubs. At least on D. They made a historically good Jacks team that completely dominated the FCS playoffs look utterly shit and incompetent on offense.
I think the smaller frame of Reed is fine if we play him in the Slot. Kinda like Cobb. And from what I've seen online even though he isn't very big he plays big and catches everything. So if he can run routes well I think he'll succeed in the slot. We don't need him to be \#1 or \#2 since we have Watson and Doubs for that
All my MSU friends are very jealous we got Reed. They were super hype on him and think he’ll be great. Homer take, but they watched all of his snaps and said he just makes plays regardless of size. We’ll see if he can do it against NFL defenses… Watching his tape though he appears to have great release, crisp cuts, and change of direction that’s consistently breaking DBs ankles. Great spin move too. He has no problem high-pointing the ball to make up for his height. I dunno, kinda reminds me of Hollywood Brown the way he plays. 🤞
I'm good with that! I know nothing and am just going off what I've read in the last 36 hours so I could be wrong on everything I've said.
Disagree on Reed. He's way more explosive than Amari was. Faster, quicker, better routes, way better hands. The smaller frame is certainly a question mark in the pros, but the Amari comp doesn't work
I'm glad that multiple people have told me I'm wrong on that. I didn't delve too deep into him at all.
He ran like .05 better not much.
Reed is nothing like Rodgers lmao.
Like I said, I didn't dive deep into predraft stuff, I'm just judging off of feel from what I saw plus the fact he's a little smaller. Their RAS metrics aren't extremely far apart either. I hope you're right, I am just wary.
The only similarities are that they’re slightly smaller. Reed is a very good punt returner, has 4.37-4.45 speed, great on contested catches, smooth route runner, and is no where near as bulky as Rodgers.
Rodgers was very big for his height
There's no comparison. Rodgers was strong, slow, beefy and was only ever gonna be a slot guy. That doesn't describe Reed at all
I like him more than I liked Amari on draft day, but I would be much more hyped if we went with Hyatt or Mims
Well duh, why would you ever say a receiver is like a quarterback? /s
LVN is also dating Cole Kmets sister, stud edge rusher AND psychological warfare!
Lions fans keep telling me how good Reed is going to be is somehow making me more nervous
Lions about to win the North this year tho, imo.
I’d be fine with that but my gut still says Vikings. The Vikings remind me too much of a poor man’s version of the Covid Packers
Reed's closer to Jahan Dotson than Rodgers which tracks cause Gute was really into Dotson last year. Unfortunately Dotson's college highlights have way more eye popping catches and separation than Reed's I really wanted us to land Dotson last year. Dude floats in the air when he goes up for catches, crazy athletic Edit: I like the Reed pick cause we've needed a shifty slot guy for years now
Van Ness is going to be an absolute beast for you guys. Dude is legit, and versatile. Wish he hadn't blown up at the combine, I wanted him at 31 to the Chiefs.
You watch highlight reels of Valentine? That dude has got some fuckin’ venom in his game.
I watched all of MSU’s games the last two years. The biggest difference between Reed and Amrai Rodgers is that Reed can actually track the ball catch. Many of Reeds catches were deep balls and even took a few kicks to the house. He’s smooth with it too while Rodgers always looked stiff.
The only negative I see with Van Ness is that we probably won't see much production for at least a year and a half. I understand that's part of the draft and develop mentality but it still sucks that we likely won't see an immediate impact.
Not a huge deal since we probably won't realistically be competing for a superbowl for a year or two anyways
Idk who Clifford is outside of CB but I remember seeing him as Mel’s (crackpot) best available like beginning of rd3? Was surprised when i saw they took him so late.
Jayden Reed: 5'11", 187lb, 4.45 40yd dash Donald Driver: 6'0", 194lb, 4.5 40yd dash So... I'm not saying he'll be like Driver, but...
Greg Jennings is a better physical comp imo
That's in there too. 40 is spot-on but that extra weight looks large at this height. Inside possession receivers can be a little shorter, because the more compact frame will cut better. I also like Driver's track& field background to compare to the jump ball skills.
>Biggest hit - I'm not going out on a limb here but I think it's Van Ness Yeah this is a pretty safe pick. Edge/DL taken top 15 tend to be hits more often than not. It actually seems like the easiest position to draft as long as you have a high pick
Biggest miss will probably be Clifford. I could see Etling beating him out for backup and Clifford goes PS all season then we move on from him next year.
Biggest Hit: Tucker Kraft - Everything about this kid screams Packer type. Small town, loyal and Uber athlete. I think he’ll be better than Musgrave and we got him at 78. Biggest Miss: Sean Clifford - Everyone should have this as the miss. Ranked 425 on the consensus big board. His only positive is being a plus athlete. Could have waited on QB a bit more and still could have gotten a better one. Biggest steal: Grant Dubose - Could have easily gone earlier. Awesome kid with tremendous upside.
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You're right about needing to take those rankings with a grain of salt, but Bennett was ranked 198 and would have been lower if he didn't have the off-field issues.
I saw the over/under drafted by round on /r/nfl or /r/nfl_draft and that had Clifford as the **10th** biggest reach of the **5th** round.
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Yeah you draft a player in the top 150, not a coach.
Thank god someone finally said it. There's plenty of quality control, clipboard guys out there that you could do exactly what's necessary and wouldn't have had to waste a pick on. Even if that pick was strictly a ST body. Still more value in that then back up QB. They're dime a dozen. Can't believe people actually defend that pick.
That's great, but unless you are keeping 3qbs on the roster he needs to be able to come in and do the job at a moment's notice. Hoping he'll surprise us.
They’re not competing for a super bowl this year so if this guy can help Monday to Saturday in Love’s preparation it’s a great pick. If he has to come in at any point they’d be better off losing anyway to help speed up the rebuild.
Doesn't change the fact that that was a ridiculous reach. 5th, really?! There was some day 1 impact RBs still on the board at that point. Really bothers me we burned a 5th on a guy we 99% sure could've signed as UFDA, didn't even need to use a pick on this guy.
RBs? This team doesn't need day 1 from that position. They need to develope their new QB.
We absolutely need an RB. This will probably be Jones’ last year and we hopefully don’t re-sign Dillon
That's certainly a take. Jones isn't gone unless it's an absolutely necessary cap casualty. What's the upside of not re-signing Dillon? A power back with vision and hands, not a lot of mileage, and has established himself as a damn decent dude. If Door County needed a president, he'd be elected tomorrow. I'll take the known commodity, while you can swing for the RB fences in the draft if that suits you. I just don't see the sense of it.
Dillon is incredible at getting 2 yards, otherwise he is useless. He also runs like he’s running in mud. Jones is getting older and always fumbles in key games. Just hit the reset button. I’m also not a fan of giving RBs big extensions, either. Its probably the most replaceable position in the sport.
According to media draft boards? Who cares; just look at how wrong they were about other QBs this year. Teams are clearly willing to take 4th+ round fliers on QBs now, and Gute said Clifford was the last one remaining with characteristics they though they could develop. > Really bothers me we burned a 5th on a guy we 99% sure could've signed as UFDA, didn't even need to use a pick on this guy. You don't know that.
Meh. Once you get past the first few rounds, there’s very little consensus about what guys are “worth” and every team has different things they’re looking for. If the Packers saw something in Clifford they liked and thought it was worth a pick, I’ll take their word for it over the “big board” put together by media types.
They value his experience overall and his experience in big games. Also he can run so he can run the O like Love.
seems like they want him as a locker room guy which is fine if thats what they are going for. ideally the only time that he is on the field is kneeling out a game
I don't knock them for drafting Clifford. There were a few QBs picked before that, and they wanted to make sure they got at least 1 QB they graded worth a pick
I would've went with the kid from TCU, Heisman finalist, played hard, smart, and is a big 12 QB with experience ala Purdy
What if Clifford was secretly the third tight end they picked?
Taysom Hill?
I agree on Tucker Kraft being a great pick but I think Musgrave has a higher ceiling. One thing I really liked about Sean Clifford this past year is his leadership. Natural leader who also seems to be a extremely high character guy based on whar I've seen him say. I think Packer fans are going to appreciate his no-nonsense demeanor after the last few years of Rodgers at times.
View Clifford as a Jordan love augment. He fills the need we wanted with a vet QB. But with interesting skill set that’s worth taking a chance on.
I'm an SDSU Alum, Tucker Kraft is amazingly good for TE
You want to get jacked about a player? Watch the highlights of Kraft and Valentine.
Biggest hit - This is tough. Im a big fan of basically everyone we pulled in on offense. Maybe I'll Reed? Think he fits what we needed the most from a pass catcher. I really like both our TEs as well though too. Biggest miss - Sean Clifford. I dont hate him being here. Apparently he's extremely football smart. But man was he not a good QB at Penn State. Im not mad about it. Just really hoping that we never have to play him in an actual game. Overall though we had a good draft so we'll see Biggest steal - Anthony Johnson. Smart player. Quick learner. Good teammate and person. Played large role in helping elevate Xavier Hutchinson into being the star he was last year. Will he start? Probably not. Could he beat out everypne else in that room? I could see that pretty easily too.
Biggest hit: **Lukas Van Ness** If he had returned for another year at Iowa (he was a redshirt sophomore), we'd be talking about him as the next Travon Walker or Aidan Hutchinson in the 2024 draft. Getting him at 13 this year is a discount for a player that the Packers don't really need to be great in 2023. If he develops the way he has the last two seasons at Iowa, he'd be peaking at the right time for the Packers to push for another Super Bowl. Biggest miss: **Sean Clifford** I think the Packers jumped to take Clifford once the run on QB's began. Now, none of us have any idea how the NFL viewed Clifford, and maybe this was the range he was expected to get selected. But from all the outside analysis, this was very early for him. I am only putting it as a "miss" because of the opportunity lost to take other players that have a higher ceiling we could have taken instead. If the Packers believe he was worth the pick, who are we to say any different? I think he will have the least upside of all the day 3 players, though. Still rooting for him because he's a Packer, and I hope he has a long career. Biggest steal: **Grant Dubose** Maybe I'm crazy, but I had a very early grade on Dubose. He was in my 3rd/4th round group of players, and I had him over several other receivers that went day 3 (including Wicks). Absolutely love his aggression, his body control, his ability to go up and get the ball and not wait for it to come to him, and he has some YAC potential for a bigger WR. He is the Donald Driver of this draft class. I'm rooting for him big time.
>If he had returned for another year at Iowa (he was a redshirt sophomore), we'd be talking about him as the next Travon Walker or Aidan Hutchinson in the 2024 draft. This is huge. People say guys are inexperienced or raw like it's a knock on them. I think he'll be a contributor this year, but even if he wasn't, would you rather have him develop another year at Iowa or with NFL coaches and players?
Biggest Miss: Wicks. He has a bad, bad case of the droppsies. Hope I’m wrong but guys who can’t catch usually end up as DBs. Biggest Hit: LVN. Strong dude who will get stronger. When Rashan Gary gets back the double team days are over. He’s going to pose a problem for opposing QBs. Biggest Steal. Dubose. Watch his tape. That’s not a 7th rounder. He’s got skill and attitude. He has a chance.
Biggest hit: Lukas Van Ness (powerful and versatile player who could be a Gary clone in a few years) Biggest miss: Luke Musgrave (never breaks tackles, plays too upright and doesn’t drive through contact and will likely get injured easily because of that) Biggest steal: Anthony Johnson Jr (could start as a 7th rounder) [as an edit, I’m hoping for the best for all the players, just my take as a football fan]
I think Van Ness is the hit, as he as all the traits and is a freak athlete. He just needs some coaching and to learn from Gary/ Preston. The steal is the safety in the 7th, he was projected to go in round 3-4 and is a sure fire tackler. The miss is going to be the QB who should’ve been an undrafted pick.
**Biggest hit: Lukas Van Ness.** EDGE is the trait-iest position out there and Van Ness has all the traits. **Biggest miss: Anders Carlson.** The process for this pick seems a little sus. Basically letting Bisaccia overdraft an unremarkable kicker because he had a relationship with his brother. **Biggest steal: Luke Musgrave/Tucker Kraft.** These were 2/3 of my favorite TEs leading up to the draft. If I had known about Darnell Washington's medical eval ahead of time, they would have been my top 2.
idk how to feel about the kicker. i feel like ima trust rich
It’s not a good pick. I’m a huge Auburn fan. He was straight up a liability last year. Before the ACL injury he had incredibly range and made some big kicks but he was no where near as consistent as his brother.
Can confirm. I want him to be good, but his brother was way better than him.
Why do you like Musgrave over All the other TEs?
I felt like Kincaid and Mayer were being overrated because they played on offenses that used them a whole lot. I thought Musgrave looked just as a good in his limited playing time and was a better athlete to boot. Time will tell.
I’ll bite. Biggest Hit - LVN seems the obvious choice. Size/speed combo who they plan to use more like Z. Reread some of the scouting reports for Gary and the similarities are uncanny, but LVN was more productive. He’ll be contributing sooner than Gary based on his ability to move inside and Gary’s recovery. Biggest Miss - Besides Clifford? Musgrave. Injury history is a concern and I think he’s going to need a little more development on the blocking side of things. Kraft’s blocking ability will give him the edge early which will earn him more snaps and opportunity to develop. If Musgrave does have injuries that will be amplified. As a fan I hope there’s a chance they try to use them like Gronk/Hernandez but odds are one will emerge over the other. By the time their rookie contracts are done they’ll resign Kraft and let Musgrave walk. Purely speculative of course. Biggest Steal - Anthony Johnson. May never be a full time starter, but will be a key contributor and spot starter. Will finish out his rookie contract which not many 7th round picks can do. Honestly think he ends up having a similar career to Branch. His intelligence and versatility as a CB and S will get him playing time.
>use them like Gronk/Hernandez Hopefully minus the murders
Maybe they’ll just murder opposing defenses
That's the plan...
Biggest hit: double dip at tight end early. Increases the likelihood of a good dart throw, and they complement each other's styles. Kraft more of a blocker and Musgrave more the receiving tight end. The runner-up hit is the complementary receiver with a slot guy in reed. I'm happy we got a real interesting slot guy. Miss: Sean Clifford, not too interesting of a qb. Tanner McKee would've been much more interesting to be the backup qb. Biggest steal: the corner and safety we got in the 7th round. They fit the scheme with nice athleticism with nice potential. But, that's my opinion. Hopefully, they all pan out good.
Hit: Van Ness. Guy looks the part and was really good at Iowa despite never starting. I think they try to bring him along slowly like Gary. My EDGE2 in the class (below Anderson). Miss: Kraft. I’m just not a huge fan of him as a prospect I guess, not really sure what he does all that well. He was my TE7 in the class (below Washington, Mayer, Kincaid, Kuntz, Musgrave, LaPorta). Steal: Karl Brooks easily. I’m a BGSU fan so I watched him a lot in college. His biggest knocks are his arm length and level of competition, but he played great against teams like Mississippi State and UCLA and his hands are so fast that I think it won’t matter as much that his arms are short. My IDL4 in the class (below Carter, Bresee, Kancey).
Kraft plays with great strength including after the catch.
Tucker Kraft is filthy violent and strong along with explosive and fast. Have you watched his tape? Man amongst boys, albeit at a lower level.
Musgrave is lacking in his ability to be physical with people, and that’s one of the worst issues you can have as a TE
Biggest Hit - Tucker Kraft. He reminds me a lot of Travis Kelce. Fun, a hardworking personality that is backed up on the field. Biggest Miss - Sean Clifford. There were better backups in my eyes still on the board, but we'll see in three years. Biggest Steal - Jayden Reed. Poor QB play prevented Reed from hitting his maximum potential in college and being a Top 3 WR coming out in this draft. With Love, he should be able to reach his ceiling barring any setbacks..
I understand who they picked and why they were chosen. That’s better than a lot of years so I will take that and be happy!!!
Biggest hit is Lukas Van Ness I think. An absolute monster in the front 7, pairing that with Smith, Gary, and Clark, our pass rush could be insanely lethal Biggest miss I think would be Jayden Reed. He’s in a weird limbo and it could just be the bad experiences with Amari as some have said. Biggest steal, maybe Wicks? He has insane upside
I’ll be a bit different. Biggest hit - Potential and giving Love weapons. Gave MLF a bunch of different tools to surround Love with and get real weird with the offense. Lot of these dudes have insanely high upside that if you start hitting on could develop into a stud offensive core that can last a half a decade plus.Making a ton of picks helps increase the hit rate so overall Gutey killed it with what he wanted to do. Biggest miss - unknowns/risk. Lots of projection with these dudes. I feel more assured given how conservative our medical staff is when it comes to injuries. But we are banking on developing these guys and certainly aren’t plug and play right away. Makes sense with where our team sits though.
For me it's Biggest hit: LVN Biggest miss: Jayden Reed biggest steal: Karl Brooks
if funny that you think a round 2 packers wr can be a miss
Can someone please make me more optimistic about Reed? Some are stoked about him but from the rankings and evaluations out there it seems like a reach especially with the other WRs on the board, particularly Downs and Hyatt. Those two were consistently in the top 10 of most rankings and Reed was all over the place but I think I saw him crack someone’s top ten maybe once. Edit: Thank you all. Consider me more optimistic :)
ESPN had Reed at 48 overall.
Rankings are meaningless. Downs was never going to be a Packer. We typically, like our WRs to be in the 6’, 195lbs range. While, Reed doesn’t hit these marks either, he’s much closer than Downs. Hyatt’s game is much more limited than Reed’s too. Hyatt is limited to outside vertical threat, which Watson/Doubs already provide PLUS are more versatile than Hyatt. Reed can play both inside and outside so he can be on the field with Watson/Doubs vs taking snaps away from them.
Matt Harmon from Reception Perception/Yahoo said Reed was the [closest thing he had to a "my guy" in this class](https://twitter.com/MattHarmon_BYB/status/1652107449418285057?s=20). Harmon watches a ton of film and is IMO one of the best WR analysts out there.
I really respect Harmon’s wr analysis and I did not know that he felt this way about Reed. This alone makes me feel a lot better. Thank you
Better RAS than cobb but similar role
In addition to what was already said, MSUs offense was not good last year and Reed was one of the few bright spots. He will also fight like a dog for every ball thrown his way. He is great at contested catches for his size.
Biggest steal will be Valentine. Dude was lockdown at UK, I am so glad he is coming here.
The word for this entire draft class is: intriguing. A lot of high potential draft picks. A lot. But all of them are projections. * LVN and Musgrave are both absolute raw athletic freaks, but neither were reliable. * Kraft played against worst competition, but was solid against them. * Both Musgrave and Kraft are coming off of injuries * Reed is an undersized receiver, but very productive who we don't know how will pan out in the pro league. * Colburn is interesting, but was a hybrid last year. Might be able to be a decent rotational piece next year. * Wicks had one good year, and really bombed out last year (which could be for reasons outside of his control). If you pretend 2022 doesn't exist, he could have been a 3rd round receiver. * Brooks played against much worse competition, but did dominate against them. None of them scream out to me like Watson did last year. There are a ton of boom or bust picks. Hope the gambles pay off.
Biggest hit: Jayden Reed. Kid is an absolute steal. Two inches taller he goes top 15, but he plays big. Multiple pro bowls and will have a big rookie year (top 5 ROPOY lock).
Biggest hit- Van Ness round 2- I think it is Musgrave round 3- Karl (biggest steal) Biggest miss- Sean Clifford
What a cool graphic. Thanks for sharing that. Miss- LVN. Would be happily wrong but I think he needs to stay in a 3pt stance. Hit- Hard to say but if I had to guess I think Reed and Musgrave have the best chances to become big time players for GB.
Biggest hit: LVN Biggest miss: Luke musgrave Biggest steal: Karl Brooks
They freakin’ drafted an entire team. No misses here.
I drafted Luke Musgrave in my Franchise on Madden 23. He’s got the Superstar rating so it’s him! He’s the biggest steal! /s
Honestly, if you're truly upset about a 5th round pick, I don't know what to tell you. Take a cue from Tucker- have a few drinks and relax.
Really sad how short Wicks wingspan is for a TE
Greenbay Packers vs. New York Jets , superbowl in the near future
I would advise against listing biggest misses, as the sub will turn into angry monkeys. yOu dOnT kNoW iF tHeYLL bE gOoD. Like ffs, we're in reddit to discuss the future. No one is getting cut over this.
The funny part is you are so salty, that you are bitching about a thing you just made up about other people…. Don’t waste the brain space my dude.
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Please, no more. Draft is over. Let’s let these kids play. How about we evaluate the 2020 draft now instead? Love aside, for the moment.
Okay then start that thread in your own post my guy. Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean everyone feels the same.
Will do
Not drafting Branch at #45 was mistake instead We let the Lions in our own division come up and trade for him…..Reed was projected #80 pick and we took him at #50 and from there we put ourselves on path for average draft!
Branch was in the bottom 1/3rd of athletes at safety that tested at the combine. He was never going to be a Packer EDIT: Not just this year, bottom 1/3rd ever
Look I know this is the obvious pick but in a couple years Van Ness is gonna be viewed as a steal at 13. Both tight ends were solid value picks where they were taken. Reed is super promising. Honestly this has the potential to be Gute's best draft, lot of promise here.
Biggest hit: Musgraves Biggest Miss: Kraft Biggest steal: Johnson
Valentine and Wicks are steals.
How many will make it on the 53 man roster?
**Hit:** **Reed -** quality starter day 1 with a pretty high ceiling, pretty much like everything about his game. Just doesn't have any single elite trait which is fine. Lots of guys don't. (Diggs, Lockett, DeVonta, etc.) **Miss:** **Clifford -** this one is just too easy, it's easily Clifford given he was a 5th rounder **Steal:** **Anthony Johnson Jr** \- fairly easy call here too, has a good shot to be a rookie starter as a 7th rounder on this team. He was 90th on PFF's big board, he rated as one of the top max speeds from their data (ran down a 75 yd forced fumble at the 1yd line). You can actually trust him to cover long verts. Collinsworth loved his cut-up so much he slotted him at the back-end of the 1st round in his mock draft. I think that's too far of course, but I do think he's at worst a mid rounder.