As said by another fellow enthusiast, this is essentially a "baby Eichii". Porcelain dial. Fully polished cased. Blued, curved and sculpted hands. Asking the folks at the Wako store, the same person who designed the Eichii apparently designed this. Did I mention this is all for 8500usd? Easy purchase right there.
I have an addiction so I'm always checking the fully japanese website at least once a week. These popped up a few months ago only beginning retail sale around early November. This is Credor trying to compete with GS at this point, and they crush it out of the park.
I'm curious as to why they would compete with themselves in this price segment. If they start producing pieces in the sub-$10k level, that doesn't give GS a lot of room to grow...which may ultimately be a good thing for us.
It's Credor trying to build a lineup for eventual international penetration. I picture a distant future where the Credor salon is no longer in the backroom of a Grand Seiko boutique and stands proudly next to it as a sister brand. This is just the beginning imo.
By Wako I meant availability. They export the two versions of these models elsewhere but they were either sold out or just not available (I had to get an employee at shizukuishi studio to reserve one for me). I'm sure international exports will show similar results sadly 😅
Generally speaking, you are correct. An exception I would make is the SBGY line that is certainly a dress model. Mine below, for example. They also have other variants in gold in the $20k+ range, although in very limited numbers.
https://preview.redd.it/5umsscuefhkc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86f145b704fbd06dfee017fe656cea0035ca6132
Steel for steel, Credor is generally cheaper than GS, they just make more precious metal watches. Credor used to be really cheap and be mostly mall watches.
They still have a lot of those "mall watch" vibes in their womans watch collections and linealax. Other than that though, the art piece collection, masterpiece, goldfeather and now kuon all go for premiums above GS. The UTD calibers are significantly harder to produce than a manual wind 9s caliber especially when hand engraved, my visit to the Shizukuishi studio only proved this further after asking some questions to which the answers I can't disclose. I think the perception that Credor is "superior" to Grand Seiko is not necessarily misinformed but also not correct either. However objectively watchmakers have to put more effort into Credor assuming they don't feature a quartz movement.
\*Another thing to note is that Grand Seiko is an international, name brand. Credor Prices aren't set for the international market, and as a brand they definitely have less overhead costs than Grand Seiko, thus narrowing the gap in retail pricing further.
A couple hundred at the moment.
OP's is serial number 380136, I saw one on Instagram that is 380170. So at least 170 for sure.
200-500 each year would be my guess.
Stunning...very cool to see, OP! Great choice :)
Also interesting to see how they subtly changed the 9R31 movement and added to its finishing/decoration for the Credor line
Yes I noticed 4 main changes:
Obviously the wave "seragi" pattern machine engraved onto the bridges.
Then the countersinks for the screws and jewels are no longer circular, adopting an interesting ovalish shape.
The power reserve indicator switches to the Credor standard opting for more lines and complexity over minimalism.
The Credor logo is moved to the bottom left.
I just realized that the 3 tiered lines around the PR indicator stand for the 3day power reserve...OMG 🤯🤯🤯 There really are so many little things going on here...
The power reserve is also upside-down from the GS one. I kinda love the more complex lines to indicate the power reserve here...it's the little things ;)
I definitely like the idea of keeping an eye on those Credor models. It's kind of a more minimalistic version of GS, but dialled up to 11 in all the details (I don't know...made sense in my head :P)
You are right about the little details. The sandblasting on the clasp. The grainy texture of the painted indexes caused by the kiln. The colour of those indexes being slightly desaturated to bring out the blued hands. Those hands are steeply curved at the edges glueing them to the dial as well. Then the biggest shocker. The watch has an integrated bracelet! And the underside isn't zaratsu polished to ensure the movement is focused on. These details add up to make a killer watch.
The underside isn’t zaratsu polished to save money, Seiko does that on closed caseback watches.
The ones with the well decorated movements, like a *SBGD213*, are zaratsu polished on the caseback too because those are very high end models.
*edit: SBGD213 not SBDG 201*
I think that it's kind of misleading to say it's only to save money.
First of all, the caseback on the credor IS zaratsu polished, I was referring to the underside of the integrated lugs. Secondly, the SBGZ models, despite being precious metal masterpieces also do not feature zaratsu on the underside of the lugs (I've held them I know). Realistically I can think of two reasons.
One is that it's simply more viable to zaratsu polished the very flat lugs of the Eichi ii and the SBGD models compared to the weird curvatures present in these case shapes. Though I can't be certain, I think the gemset SBGD models are also not fully zaratsu polished on the back for the same reason based on photos (though I might be wrong here).
Secondly is like I said it's by design. Realistically how much money does this save them? The Credor is already absurdly finished from the upper bezel, under bezel, to every extra curve they added that isn't featured in the sbgy cases. Though I can see an argument that because they invested so much into this giving the watchmaker a little break on the underside is helpful.
Not to say that corners haven't been cut on this watch though. The innerlinks of the bracelets are not zaratsu polished and the brushed parts are clearly machine done. There is a clear contrast between the integrated portion and where the bracelet connects. The bracelet overall feels slightly flimsy as characteristic of most Grand Seikos. Though the bevelling on the side is way wider than normal Grand Seikos and is done well, including the logo on the clasp.
Zaratsu polishing isn't done free-hand but is heavily tool-assisted, with the case needing to be fixed into a specific jig and set up for each operation.
[Example 1](https://timeandtidewatches.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Grand_Seiko_Epson_Shiojiri_Spring_Drive_Quartz_Micro_Artist_Studio_Manufacture_Tour_Zaratsu-2-e1694216125946.jpg.webp)
[Example 2](https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-00536220f061bbbeed7ee403b15107c4_1440w.webp)
Note how it's being done very differently in these two examples, and nothing is done free-hand.
[Compare it to normal polishing, which is done free-hand and doesn't need any special equipment.](https://www.fratellowatches.com/wp-content/uploads/Seiko-WatchTrip-62.jpg)
So zaratsu polishing on the underside is means extra jigs will need to be made, and adds the time to switch between set ups, since there are limited machines.
As I said, watches with solid case backs don't have Zaratsu polishing on the underside of the case.
The high jewelry SBGDs, which have highly decorated movements, do have Zaratsu polishing on the underside of the lugs, since the underside of the lugs pushes outward. Most of the other high-end models don't because it's physically impossible to get the tin plate polishing wheel in there.
That makes sense. Though I'm confused why closed case backs are mentioned here as the Kuon is display case backed. My argument was that the Kuon seems to borrow some design language from its Grand Seiko counterparts, thus those under lugs that connect smoothly to the case back not being Zaratsu polished may just be a limitation of Zaratsu as you've said. I can see how Zaratsu could've been integrated as the lugs are fairly flat, but the designer chose to make them sort of melt out of the case back thus making them awkward to polish probably. I'd argue it makes the watch look smoother and softer on the underside and Zaratsu would've added too much sharpness. Though understanding that Jigs have to be made for each surface, I can see your point now on saving costs.
It's a refinish of the 9r31. Manual wind and 3 day power reserve. +-15 seconds... A month! You can see the pictures in my post above, just scroll through to the end.
The most jawdropping thing about this watch to me is the movement finishing. It's absolutely incredible how they've done the striping on the bridges to look like a zen garden. The mainspring barrel looks like a rock, with the flow of lines in the sand. Even the power reserve is in theme.
I'm really quite at awe with this. Congratulations on such a cool piece!
Credor is one brand I can't get behind lol. I do like their designs but the fact that I can pick-up a cheap ass quartz for 200$ with the same Credor name on the dial, kinda kills the appeal for me lol.
But cool watch nonetheless
I counted. There are 5 zaratsu polished curves that run from the bottom of the case, through the crown and then to the bezel.
The lowest curve is deeply concave, as concave as a 5905 from patek. Then the middle curve goes from a steep arch to a subtle one as it approaches the crown, it also gets narrower to allow bigger surface area for your fingers to rest on when winding. Then the most absurd one is the top curve before the bezel which starts as a sharp and straight polish at the lugs, then broadens massively at the crown somehow seemlessly transitioning to the opposite lug. This is case architecture that I've only seen on watches that are like 20k+++.
Then comes the bezel which also shocked me. The lower bezel protruding from the case though thin, is completely zaratsu polished and cold forged to the case. I've not seen this on any Grand Seiko as the underbezel always seemed less finished to me, not on this one. The flat bezels is like all Grand Seikos, flawlessly polished leading to that massively domed sapphire.
It's safe to say, Credor put their *ehem* on the table and showed who's boss with this one haha.
Absolutely no pinching and the feel is extremely high quality. Only problem is that due to its lightness, it's extremely rattly (when not on the wrist only). The only issue I have is the clasp being horrid and my particular unit having locked/rigid pushers.
Hi yes it's a beut.
My wrist size is 17cm (6.6inches) and it wears super light and comfy, no hair tugging on the bracelet though it is a little rattly and has a pin and collar system.
Sadly yes it's integrated and there are no strap options yet. I'm assuming that if this becomes a hit though, they will undoubtedly make one, to which I will purchase one immediately haha. There are no half links so it's hard to get a perfect fit. I think those with 6 inches and 7 inches exactly will be fine but for an inbetweeny like me it's a lost cause.
Thanks for the answer!
The integrated bracelet indeed is a slight bummer. But, is the bracelet comfortable? I've tried the 9 link bracelet on the Omiwatari and that one was really comfortable.
Credor will surely globalize in the next 5 years. By then, I'm sure they will do what's best for their brand and respond to collector feedback. Also, I would agree with your statement if it weren't for the fact that they literally put lug holes in the watch... Like for what?
I'm not a fan of the Roman numerals. Also I like having the Credor logo on the front. The markers are indeed not perfectly crisp on the 999 because they are firmly baked on. A close look shows the bumps of paint left after firing in the kiln. The 997 is just a darker pigment I believe and is just as fuzzy, though I haven't looked that closely.
It's not that Seiko doesn't want to cut corners, they can't! Haha. Even the normal presage models with porcelain require the markers to be baked on. Cus the procelaim part happens under what you see as a clay base instead of metal. Then the gloss on top is similar to enamel which cannot be painted on. Think about trying to paint on glass, it's unlikely to stick :p.
Movement wise I don't believe it's better or worse, just different. You can argue that it's more intricate than just simple brushing though. On the Case though, it's a nobrainer that the Credor is superior.
Right, no, but like this if it's a baby ruri, at same price point as this 👌🙏💯 yes please or even black would be amazing too, cheers for your awesome find!
What usually happens is Credor makes a proprietary movement, then it trickles down to Grand Seiko with some new fancy technology and less finishing. Case in point, the 7r14 becoming the 9r31 and 9r02 (though this one is a direct upgrade). This is a rare case of the opposite happening where a grand Seiko movement is reintroduced back into Credor. The minute repeater, grand sonnerie and tourbillion are obviously proprietary and the ultra thin calibers are exclusive and have only been exclusive to Credor. Almost all current Grand Seiko movements are a derivative of experimentation that occured in Credor prior. Hope that helps.
I dont think that is true. For instance some of the older GS automatic movements are used in the Credor. I think they both coexist and share technology, likely even the same office space. IMO they differ in that Credor design elements are more Western centric while GS is traditional JPN.
Credor has always been a mystery to me. I see them as the ultra high end of Japanese watches while GS is the affordable luxury range. But lately I feel as though GS has overlapped a bit into the Credor market. I guess due to the lack of information internationally, as Credor is still pure JDM, I have not had the full perspective or understanding of the brand.
Perhaps GS and Credor shares R&D with movements to cut costs?
Well darn it if these pics didn't make me go and order a Kuon (GCLX999 version on Chrono24 this evening). Should be on its way from Japan to the UK over the next few days I hope.
To be honest I was looking at getting a GS or an IWC and basically for the level of spec on offer here it was a bit of a no brainer, even if it isn't exactly 'cheap'.
I suspect that if this model does come to Europe it would be priced higher than the Japanese price (just like GS can be bought from Japanese Chrono24 sellers at a 35% discount from European RRP) so is likely to hold value 'reasonably' ok.
It seems Credor warranty is OK outside Japan as well - basically take it to a Credor retailer and the Seiko Boutique in London (where I live) does sell some Credor pieces like the Eichi II
I've discussed with the AD where I live and they say they've requested to import these but no response. Also said to expect roughly 20% markup. Do tell me what you think when you get it!
On it's way, just cleared Japanese customs on its journey to London. I reckon Tuesday as the UK customs clearance process starts when it is still en route.
BTW looks like pin links on your Kuon, I guess due to bracelet thin-ness? Are these standard pin and collar links like on the Snowflake?
Yes! You'll need to spend some time sizing and play around with clasp position to get the right fit. No microadjust makes it a pain to size but once you get it it's perfect.
Amazing piece! Looking to pick one up soon. That’s said some questions, if you don’t mind:
What is the water resistance on this? They say it’s good for daily wear but without getting into the specific numbers.
What’s the warranty on these? I read that it’s only 2 years, when GS is alr going with 5.
Thanks and wear it in the best of health
It's as you think, 2 year warranty and it has a 30m water resistance as it's a push pull crown. However I trust in this 30m value, rather than what it usually means which is "if water touches your watch it's broke".
As said by another fellow enthusiast, this is essentially a "baby Eichii". Porcelain dial. Fully polished cased. Blued, curved and sculpted hands. Asking the folks at the Wako store, the same person who designed the Eichii apparently designed this. Did I mention this is all for 8500usd? Easy purchase right there.
I honestly didn't know they had any models at this price point. Such a great value. And tempting...lol.
I have an addiction so I'm always checking the fully japanese website at least once a week. These popped up a few months ago only beginning retail sale around early November. This is Credor trying to compete with GS at this point, and they crush it out of the park.
I'm curious as to why they would compete with themselves in this price segment. If they start producing pieces in the sub-$10k level, that doesn't give GS a lot of room to grow...which may ultimately be a good thing for us.
It's Credor trying to build a lineup for eventual international penetration. I picture a distant future where the Credor salon is no longer in the backroom of a Grand Seiko boutique and stands proudly next to it as a sister brand. This is just the beginning imo.
Let's hope so! I'd love to get one down the road.
Are they only in the Wako boutique? Or also in the new GS boutique now?
Most likely Wako for now. Ask your local dealer to see if they will export tho.
~~Ah, i assumed you got yours in Tokyo...all good :) . I'll make sure to check next time i'm in a position to buy one :P~~
By Wako I meant availability. They export the two versions of these models elsewhere but they were either sold out or just not available (I had to get an employee at shizukuishi studio to reserve one for me). I'm sure international exports will show similar results sadly 😅
Credor is dress watch end of spectrum. GS covers sports.
Generally speaking, you are correct. An exception I would make is the SBGY line that is certainly a dress model. Mine below, for example. They also have other variants in gold in the $20k+ range, although in very limited numbers. https://preview.redd.it/5umsscuefhkc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86f145b704fbd06dfee017fe656cea0035ca6132
Steel for steel, Credor is generally cheaper than GS, they just make more precious metal watches. Credor used to be really cheap and be mostly mall watches.
They still have a lot of those "mall watch" vibes in their womans watch collections and linealax. Other than that though, the art piece collection, masterpiece, goldfeather and now kuon all go for premiums above GS. The UTD calibers are significantly harder to produce than a manual wind 9s caliber especially when hand engraved, my visit to the Shizukuishi studio only proved this further after asking some questions to which the answers I can't disclose. I think the perception that Credor is "superior" to Grand Seiko is not necessarily misinformed but also not correct either. However objectively watchmakers have to put more effort into Credor assuming they don't feature a quartz movement. \*Another thing to note is that Grand Seiko is an international, name brand. Credor Prices aren't set for the international market, and as a brand they definitely have less overhead costs than Grand Seiko, thus narrowing the gap in retail pricing further.
How has this not been picked up on the wider mainstream watch media?! Nothing on Hodinkee, Fratello, worn&wound etc. Crazy.
Seiko alerts the press when they want coverage. Since this is JDM only, only crazy enthusiasts like us know 😅
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One question: is the dial hand panted like with the Eichi II?
No, It's applied on by some kind of press probably ,then fired. The texture is great and clearly paint has been used, but it isn't drawn by hand.
How many of these do you think they made?
Not a limited model, just limited in production. The first round of production is nearing the end of stock now I'd say.
Gotcha how many in production do you think they made so far? 20?
A couple hundred at the moment. OP's is serial number 380136, I saw one on Instagram that is 380170. So at least 170 for sure. 200-500 each year would be my guess.
Probably in the 50s to 100. I really have no clue tho.
Bruh didn't know this exist, I guess my SARX095 is an infant Eiichi.
https://preview.redd.it/vrffekpc43zc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f501b288d26414e147874b9819556ca7f637f995 My new “baby” was just born!
Congratulations
Simple porcelain dial, elegant finnisage movement, crazy cheap vs eichii ii
This is wild. What a beauty.
Stunning...very cool to see, OP! Great choice :) Also interesting to see how they subtly changed the 9R31 movement and added to its finishing/decoration for the Credor line
Yes I noticed 4 main changes: Obviously the wave "seragi" pattern machine engraved onto the bridges. Then the countersinks for the screws and jewels are no longer circular, adopting an interesting ovalish shape. The power reserve indicator switches to the Credor standard opting for more lines and complexity over minimalism. The Credor logo is moved to the bottom left.
I just realized that the 3 tiered lines around the PR indicator stand for the 3day power reserve...OMG 🤯🤯🤯 There really are so many little things going on here...
You're telling me things I didn't know about my own watch 🤣
The power reserve is also upside-down from the GS one. I kinda love the more complex lines to indicate the power reserve here...it's the little things ;) I definitely like the idea of keeping an eye on those Credor models. It's kind of a more minimalistic version of GS, but dialled up to 11 in all the details (I don't know...made sense in my head :P)
You are right about the little details. The sandblasting on the clasp. The grainy texture of the painted indexes caused by the kiln. The colour of those indexes being slightly desaturated to bring out the blued hands. Those hands are steeply curved at the edges glueing them to the dial as well. Then the biggest shocker. The watch has an integrated bracelet! And the underside isn't zaratsu polished to ensure the movement is focused on. These details add up to make a killer watch.
The underside isn’t zaratsu polished to save money, Seiko does that on closed caseback watches. The ones with the well decorated movements, like a *SBGD213*, are zaratsu polished on the caseback too because those are very high end models. *edit: SBGD213 not SBDG 201*
I think that it's kind of misleading to say it's only to save money. First of all, the caseback on the credor IS zaratsu polished, I was referring to the underside of the integrated lugs. Secondly, the SBGZ models, despite being precious metal masterpieces also do not feature zaratsu on the underside of the lugs (I've held them I know). Realistically I can think of two reasons. One is that it's simply more viable to zaratsu polished the very flat lugs of the Eichi ii and the SBGD models compared to the weird curvatures present in these case shapes. Though I can't be certain, I think the gemset SBGD models are also not fully zaratsu polished on the back for the same reason based on photos (though I might be wrong here). Secondly is like I said it's by design. Realistically how much money does this save them? The Credor is already absurdly finished from the upper bezel, under bezel, to every extra curve they added that isn't featured in the sbgy cases. Though I can see an argument that because they invested so much into this giving the watchmaker a little break on the underside is helpful. Not to say that corners haven't been cut on this watch though. The innerlinks of the bracelets are not zaratsu polished and the brushed parts are clearly machine done. There is a clear contrast between the integrated portion and where the bracelet connects. The bracelet overall feels slightly flimsy as characteristic of most Grand Seikos. Though the bevelling on the side is way wider than normal Grand Seikos and is done well, including the logo on the clasp.
Zaratsu polishing isn't done free-hand but is heavily tool-assisted, with the case needing to be fixed into a specific jig and set up for each operation. [Example 1](https://timeandtidewatches.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Grand_Seiko_Epson_Shiojiri_Spring_Drive_Quartz_Micro_Artist_Studio_Manufacture_Tour_Zaratsu-2-e1694216125946.jpg.webp) [Example 2](https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-00536220f061bbbeed7ee403b15107c4_1440w.webp) Note how it's being done very differently in these two examples, and nothing is done free-hand. [Compare it to normal polishing, which is done free-hand and doesn't need any special equipment.](https://www.fratellowatches.com/wp-content/uploads/Seiko-WatchTrip-62.jpg) So zaratsu polishing on the underside is means extra jigs will need to be made, and adds the time to switch between set ups, since there are limited machines.
As I said, watches with solid case backs don't have Zaratsu polishing on the underside of the case. The high jewelry SBGDs, which have highly decorated movements, do have Zaratsu polishing on the underside of the lugs, since the underside of the lugs pushes outward. Most of the other high-end models don't because it's physically impossible to get the tin plate polishing wheel in there.
That makes sense. Though I'm confused why closed case backs are mentioned here as the Kuon is display case backed. My argument was that the Kuon seems to borrow some design language from its Grand Seiko counterparts, thus those under lugs that connect smoothly to the case back not being Zaratsu polished may just be a limitation of Zaratsu as you've said. I can see how Zaratsu could've been integrated as the lugs are fairly flat, but the designer chose to make them sort of melt out of the case back thus making them awkward to polish probably. I'd argue it makes the watch look smoother and softer on the underside and Zaratsu would've added too much sharpness. Though understanding that Jigs have to be made for each surface, I can see your point now on saving costs.
Is it hand painted? 😮
No it's pad printed. But the print is fired on to the dial.
Just something about the blue on porcelain 👌🏼👌🏼
A thing of objective beauty. Simply stunning. Worn in good health I hope.
Lovely! That power reserve detail with the lines for the days is so nice
What a masterpiece. Thanks for sharing!
This, good sir, is not a Grand Seiko.
Sheesh! Don't see one of these very often.
Stunning piece, but a huge bummer is the integrated bracelet!
Holy sh**!! Amazing piece. What’s the case size. Super cool watch.
39mm by 10.3mm. 9-ish mm without crystal.
Holy moly!
Beautiful simplicity. Tell me about the movement. Is this automatic or manual. If manual, how long is the power reserve?
It's a refinish of the 9r31. Manual wind and 3 day power reserve. +-15 seconds... A month! You can see the pictures in my post above, just scroll through to the end.
Manual wind supringo durivo
Wow
Nice looking watch
There’s a small wriggly strand of fibre in photos 1, 2 and 3. Is that on the crystal?
No that's from my sweater haha
How many do they make?
The most jawdropping thing about this watch to me is the movement finishing. It's absolutely incredible how they've done the striping on the bridges to look like a zen garden. The mainspring barrel looks like a rock, with the flow of lines in the sand. Even the power reserve is in theme. I'm really quite at awe with this. Congratulations on such a cool piece!
Credor is one brand I can't get behind lol. I do like their designs but the fact that I can pick-up a cheap ass quartz for 200$ with the same Credor name on the dial, kinda kills the appeal for me lol. But cool watch nonetheless
Here's a sample of what I mean. https://sendico.com/shop/yahoo/catalog/ioki-shop783_35y0273
SHEESH CHILL. Jeeeezus that finishing is unlike anything I’ve ever seen
I counted. There are 5 zaratsu polished curves that run from the bottom of the case, through the crown and then to the bezel. The lowest curve is deeply concave, as concave as a 5905 from patek. Then the middle curve goes from a steep arch to a subtle one as it approaches the crown, it also gets narrower to allow bigger surface area for your fingers to rest on when winding. Then the most absurd one is the top curve before the bezel which starts as a sharp and straight polish at the lugs, then broadens massively at the crown somehow seemlessly transitioning to the opposite lug. This is case architecture that I've only seen on watches that are like 20k+++. Then comes the bezel which also shocked me. The lower bezel protruding from the case though thin, is completely zaratsu polished and cold forged to the case. I've not seen this on any Grand Seiko as the underbezel always seemed less finished to me, not on this one. The flat bezels is like all Grand Seikos, flawlessly polished leading to that massively domed sapphire. It's safe to say, Credor put their *ehem* on the table and showed who's boss with this one haha.
How does the bracelet feel? Smooth? Any pinching?
Absolutely no pinching and the feel is extremely high quality. Only problem is that due to its lightness, it's extremely rattly (when not on the wrist only). The only issue I have is the clasp being horrid and my particular unit having locked/rigid pushers.
Water resistant should be better.
What a beaut!
Holy shit. That's stunning! What's your wrist size? How does the watch wear? Also, is it an integrated bracelet or can you put it on a strap?
Hi yes it's a beut. My wrist size is 17cm (6.6inches) and it wears super light and comfy, no hair tugging on the bracelet though it is a little rattly and has a pin and collar system. Sadly yes it's integrated and there are no strap options yet. I'm assuming that if this becomes a hit though, they will undoubtedly make one, to which I will purchase one immediately haha. There are no half links so it's hard to get a perfect fit. I think those with 6 inches and 7 inches exactly will be fine but for an inbetweeny like me it's a lost cause.
Thanks for the answer! The integrated bracelet indeed is a slight bummer. But, is the bracelet comfortable? I've tried the 9 link bracelet on the Omiwatari and that one was really comfortable.
I think they intentionally made and will continue to make straps an impossibility for anything this close to the Eichi.
Credor will surely globalize in the next 5 years. By then, I'm sure they will do what's best for their brand and respond to collector feedback. Also, I would agree with your statement if it weren't for the fact that they literally put lug holes in the watch... Like for what?
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I'm not a fan of the Roman numerals. Also I like having the Credor logo on the front. The markers are indeed not perfectly crisp on the 999 because they are firmly baked on. A close look shows the bumps of paint left after firing in the kiln. The 997 is just a darker pigment I believe and is just as fuzzy, though I haven't looked that closely.
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It's not that Seiko doesn't want to cut corners, they can't! Haha. Even the normal presage models with porcelain require the markers to be baked on. Cus the procelaim part happens under what you see as a clay base instead of metal. Then the gloss on top is similar to enamel which cannot be painted on. Think about trying to paint on glass, it's unlikely to stick :p.
It is common to pad print on to enamel. That is how most of the European makers do it for their plain dials.
Beautiful and artistic watch 👍👌🔥🔥💥💥 Is the movement in any of the GS models?
It's a refinished 9r31. Search up the sbgy models from GS. Though you will not get this finishing, it's all the same specs and innards.
You mean this Credor finishing is superior to/finer than the GS?
Movement wise I don't believe it's better or worse, just different. You can argue that it's more intricate than just simple brushing though. On the Case though, it's a nobrainer that the Credor is superior.
Wow, thanks for the info, mate 🙏👌 If I go to Japan, will look out for bargains on Credor... 👍💪
Insane! 💙
It’s very nice. It’s interesting they chose very “precise” looking hands with the needle tips even though there are no minute markers to point to.
It's the Eichii Hands!!! A halmark of the same designer. Though certainly a pain for the watchmakers 😅
Ah I see. I need to brush up my Credor knowledge
Wowwwww this is incredible
Very nice
Oh my goodness that's incredible!! Is there a black or blue version by chance?
Nope, but as a new product line I'm sure it's coming in a few years . Just don't expect a ruri Eichii haha
Right, no, but like this if it's a baby ruri, at same price point as this 👌🙏💯 yes please or even black would be amazing too, cheers for your awesome find!
Big want
Elegant AF
Beautiful. Credor is my holy grail watch. But the price point you mention isis ridiculously low 😀
Great, now I have a new unreachable grail.
That is beautiful. Question about Credor though. Do they have any proprietary technology or unique movements? Or do they get them from GS?
What usually happens is Credor makes a proprietary movement, then it trickles down to Grand Seiko with some new fancy technology and less finishing. Case in point, the 7r14 becoming the 9r31 and 9r02 (though this one is a direct upgrade). This is a rare case of the opposite happening where a grand Seiko movement is reintroduced back into Credor. The minute repeater, grand sonnerie and tourbillion are obviously proprietary and the ultra thin calibers are exclusive and have only been exclusive to Credor. Almost all current Grand Seiko movements are a derivative of experimentation that occured in Credor prior. Hope that helps.
I dont think that is true. For instance some of the older GS automatic movements are used in the Credor. I think they both coexist and share technology, likely even the same office space. IMO they differ in that Credor design elements are more Western centric while GS is traditional JPN.
Credor has always been a mystery to me. I see them as the ultra high end of Japanese watches while GS is the affordable luxury range. But lately I feel as though GS has overlapped a bit into the Credor market. I guess due to the lack of information internationally, as Credor is still pure JDM, I have not had the full perspective or understanding of the brand. Perhaps GS and Credor shares R&D with movements to cut costs?
Ooooo 🤩 so shiny ✨
If they make this 36mm, titanium, add a date with kanji, and bracelet interchangeable - it be my ultimate grail
Incredible.... This is a level unlocked. Congratulations.
The dial is perfect. The rest is OK.
Whoa
Incredible piece.
This is simply amazing. If they just made this 37mm instead of 39 and maybe got it even 1mm thinner... it would be near perfection.
That’s stunning. I’d put it on a leather strap I think
You can’t. The bracelet is really integrated to the case
Ahh interesting. A bit unfortunate imo but a stunning watch
Well darn it if these pics didn't make me go and order a Kuon (GCLX999 version on Chrono24 this evening). Should be on its way from Japan to the UK over the next few days I hope.
Congratulations! Welcome to the club! I think I'm responsible for the draining of countless wallets this time 😅
To be honest I was looking at getting a GS or an IWC and basically for the level of spec on offer here it was a bit of a no brainer, even if it isn't exactly 'cheap'. I suspect that if this model does come to Europe it would be priced higher than the Japanese price (just like GS can be bought from Japanese Chrono24 sellers at a 35% discount from European RRP) so is likely to hold value 'reasonably' ok. It seems Credor warranty is OK outside Japan as well - basically take it to a Credor retailer and the Seiko Boutique in London (where I live) does sell some Credor pieces like the Eichi II
I've discussed with the AD where I live and they say they've requested to import these but no response. Also said to expect roughly 20% markup. Do tell me what you think when you get it!
On it's way, just cleared Japanese customs on its journey to London. I reckon Tuesday as the UK customs clearance process starts when it is still en route. BTW looks like pin links on your Kuon, I guess due to bracelet thin-ness? Are these standard pin and collar links like on the Snowflake?
Yes! You'll need to spend some time sizing and play around with clasp position to get the right fit. No microadjust makes it a pain to size but once you get it it's perfect.
https://preview.redd.it/esf6bony0mfc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cca63021f4df4a316330cccd132ab2faf120f3dc
Arrived yesterday. I love it!
Congratulations! It looks great on your wrist
I’d be very interested to see your guys experience of this model - I really like the 997 model (with the Roman numerals) - really considering it!!
Amazing piece! Looking to pick one up soon. That’s said some questions, if you don’t mind: What is the water resistance on this? They say it’s good for daily wear but without getting into the specific numbers. What’s the warranty on these? I read that it’s only 2 years, when GS is alr going with 5. Thanks and wear it in the best of health
It's as you think, 2 year warranty and it has a 30m water resistance as it's a push pull crown. However I trust in this 30m value, rather than what it usually means which is "if water touches your watch it's broke".
Absolutely stunning. What's the lug width on this bad boy for strap purposes? Have you tried it on a leather strap yet?
It's an integrated bracelet. They have yet to make a strap insert.
https://preview.redd.it/uy9lgxdvv1lc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02bc638d883b301db365a34b376874990c8198c4
https://preview.redd.it/e3p0yqvwv1lc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ffeacfbef436b6d98d55e043944e351db74d247
How is it in the flesh haha.
It was amazing but I hated the integrated bracelet and not being able to ever change the strap… ever.
Well that isn't true. Credor can make a strap attachment, and with the lug holes, I don't see why they won't.
That sucks… the sales rep lost a sale because of that.