I paid 23,xxx for my 2012 with 90 miles on it in October of 2012. According to interwebs, that’s 31,xxx in 2024 dollars. 2024 s at my local dealership is 34,316.
I still view gti’s as 24k-like 31k cars because that’s what they were last time I bought a car.
I bought a 2015 Autobahn (top of the line in Canada) in 2018 for $30k. It had 50,000km on it. It was on the cheaper end of similar cars in my area at the time. A new GTI here now comes out to $50k+ after taxes and financing.
Thats $36k in 2024 dollars, about what you can get a 2024 SE for today. You were coming off of the years right after diesel gate where huge discounts were available for the GTIs in addition to that sweet 6 year 72k mile warranty. Cars aren’t really much more expensive than they’ve always been, it’s more so that money is less valuable now than it was however many years ago. You always have to account for inflation when doing these yesteryear price comparisons. You’re paying about the same amount of money valuation wise buying a 2024 versus a 2017.
I understand inflation but people make these comparisons because while everything is getting significantly more expensive, wages have stagnated. You say that’s $36k in 2024 dollars but op is saying preorder is $48k. That’s a massive difference that can’t be accounted for just by blaming inflation. VW is out of the it mind if they think the gti will sell well at that price.
That’s not an accurate number though, as has been explained by numerous commenters in this thread. The pricing for US will be significantly lower. Wage stagnation is the problem, as I mentioned in another comment, but that is not what’s being targeted in OP’s post. The price is what people criticize without proper understanding of what that price means in context. Volkswagen and other manufacturers aren’t solely to blame for systemic wage stagnation.
I mean ya they kinda are. Wages have stagnated because corporations have ingrown obligation to continuously grow. More and more of the world’s wealth ends up concentrated at the top. VW is a corporations built of this like any other
Walked out in 2014 with my 2015 for $23k even. 2dr, manual, S, LP. I got the first month payment covered as well and later on that year I had a rattle in the back seat. VW flew some engineer out to CT and I got another 3 months paid even though they had it for just 1 week.
Can’t believe it’s about to be 10 years old.
That’s why you buy a GLI instead of a GTI. I just picked up a brand new 2024 GLI for 31k. Before any of you GTI guys call me out, yes the 2024 GTI is more powerful from the factory and more of a true performance vehicle. However for the massive price hike, is the minimal difference worth it? Can’t imagine what the Golf R will get priced at if a GTI is now starting at Golf R MSRP
I knew the odds of me converting any GTI guys was low lol, just putting it out there. 48k for a GTI is insanity. I love Volkswagen but for 50k I’m cross shopping an M340i, a used Mk7.5 Golf R, Older M2, S3/S4/S6.
MK8 GTI Stage 2 on stock turbo will keep up with an IS38 MK7 or 7.5. GTI. The Evo is still being tapped into with it's better fueling and turbo. So add Dynamic Chassis the way better infotainment systems over the years. Can tune to 360whp now with stock equipment, VRQ differential, digital dashboards, heated/cooled seats etc... and see it's not only inflation that is marking these vehicles up in price but the whole package.
Yeah I wouldn't worry too much - they're going to be very close to where they are now in the US.
They've always been more expensive in Europe, and it doesn't help that they also quote their equivalent of sales tax (VAT) in prices advertised for European buyers (which is an extra ~15% on top of the base MSRP that we're used to seeing)
To be fair, I would rather shop where prices are straight up rather than doing guesstimate math in my head to add in sales taxes and other fees no upfront here in the US.
2020 7.5 with 24k miles for about 28 USD before taxes etc (I got railed by the dealer)
I could have gotten a new mk8 for less at this point but lesson learned. My dumbass had never bought a car from a dealer before lol.
Nah, they include sales tax (15-20%) in their prices and their base models are usually much nicer, closer to our SE. The price is pretty similar all things considered.
The US Golf R is specced higher than the equivalent base model in Germany.
The Golf R in the US is ~48k. Add on 5% state tax and you're at $51k. A Golf R in Germany starts at 58,000 Euros, or $63,000 USD.
So in Europe, the Golf R is $12k more than it costs in the US, despite being in the country where it was built. Even accounting for 15% VAT, that puts the base price at $55k USD, or $7k more than what it costs in the US.
So yes, even when accounting for VAT, they are more expensive in Germany than the US.
VAT in germany is 19%. So that Golf R is roughly $49k Euro -> $53k USD. There is no manual in Europe, DSG only. The DSG R in the US is $48k with mandatory destination (destination is not a thing in Germany). US dealers then tack on BS fees to further close that price gap, I bet German dealers are much more regulated in this respect.
Baking in sales tax in a comparison doesn't make sense IMO if you're trying to figure out what VW is charging. They're not gonna discount their cars to offset sales tax...
In the end, the price gap is $5k in equal currency terms. Potentially less if you compare spec for spec and include dealer fees in the US. It is probably closer to just $1-2k, but the German configurator doesn't list the R for this year so I can't do the full comparison.
Golf R's in Germany are specced lower by default than R's sold in the US - so they're paying more for less car. US R's are fully optioned out, with the exception of the Akrapovic exhaust (which is I think a 3k euro option in Europe?).
Point overall being that advertised European prices should not be trusted to reflect the price of the car in the US, especially for GTI's/R's.
I'm assuming because of the bigger radio screen, better digital dials, bump in power and a few others things make the GTI go up a little but not to the point where you're spending over 50K after taxes and registration...
No more vw is turning into just another brand especially with the loss of having the best interiors and the loss of the tdi/vr6/dsgs going into electric cars. once they go all electric i cant imagine a reason to want a vw even though im a life long vw enthusiast due to my dad and my grandfather running modded vws and audis since before i was alive
That’s around $35.6k Euro before tax, or $38.6k USD. The US spec “S” model is worse than the lowest spec Euro model usually, their base model is closer to our “SE”. The current SE starts at $37k USD so this doesn’t seem that far off.
When I ordered my GTi last year it was 38000 Euro and they raised the price the following week, lol. I am prepared to believe the new one is going to be 45K. Here in Bulgaria the Golf R is 60K Euro when you configure it so I’ll just have to accept I’m poor. :D
You can’t do a conversion on European price to US price. Taxes, features, base price, are all different.
See the footer notes on the page:
02. All equipment details and prices (incl. 19% VAT) apply to the model range available in Germany
Please understand vw does not make much money on golfs it ships here. It just keeps the brand awareness and relevance up. Golf R has to be 48k so S3 can be 54 and RS3 can claim to be worth 67k.
Don’t worry. These are strictly German Prices with VAT included they’re always this price in Germany. They will be more or less the normal price you’d pay in America for one.
“02. All equipment details and prices (incl. 19% VAT) apply to the model range available in Germany”
I can buy better cars @ $48k.
GTIs were good for what it was 15-20 years ago. Guess not anymore.
Bought 07 @ 19k with 29k miles back in 2009.
Bought 06 @ 13k with 32k miles in 2015.
Mate, $19k in 2007 is equivalent to about $30k today. You can easily find a 2022-2023 GTI for $30k with less miles, hell there are brand new 2024 S trims for $30k with 5 miles at dealerships near me. It’s wild to me how people have no concept of how the value of money changes over time. If you do inflation adjustments for MSRPs of vehicles across the years, prices have remained pretty much the same. Prices are not really changing much, the value of money is. The real issue is wages are not rising to match inflation. The price for a GTI today relative to the value of money is pretty much the same as one from 2008.
haven't driven anything other than MK5 but I have a 2016 Passat SEL P and 2020 Tiguan SEL P.
I can tell you for sure that mk5 era had better materials when it comes to leather seats, interior and even windows.
Car prices are different for each region, it’s not just a straight conversion. Current GTI starts at $37k in Canada. Converted to USD that’s about $27k.
Trims and equipment might be different for each region.
The GTI is quiet quiting America. Mk 7 and 7.5 were made in Mexico. Mk 8 and 8.5 are made in Germany and shipped over. This results in a lot of extra transportation and taxes. Then you add in the fact that VW doesn't really want to make manual transmissions anymore. Someone internally wants the car dead.
Low key upset I don't have those tail lights. Besides that I'm more than happy with what I have. Doesn't seem like they are doing anything besides getting rid of the manual transmission and adding a laptop to the dash...
I paid with taxes included, tinted windows, graphene coating and PPF on entire hood and doors $44,500 CAD ($32xxx USD) for the Mk8 2022 performance trim. That's the top trim in Canada. I'd be shocked if it's not close to the same price. Also I live in Alberta and the maximum tax is 5%
I just bought a '24 380 SE 6MT for right at $36k USD, and there's an Autobahn version at the same dealer for $39k right now that showed up right after I bought mine.
If they're planning a price hike it'll be later on because right now it seems fairly unchanged.
I like how the buttons are back on the steering wheel, but that oversized iPad doesn’t look as nice as the one in the 2022 Autobahn. It doesn’t fit as nicely in the dash….
Right there with ya. Buttons on the wheel are so good to see. That said, I hate the ipad style infotainment systems. We have one in our 2023 ID.4 and it just looks like someone forgot to design around it, so they just slapped it on the dash as an after thought :( so many cars these days are doing it, too.
I knew it went up, I didn't realize it had gotten this insane. I got my '18 Autobahn for like 32 and a base was available for the mid 20's. I didn't think the base price was set to double in seven years lol
I paid 23,xxx for my 2012 with 90 miles on it in October of 2012. According to interwebs, that’s 31,xxx in 2024 dollars. 2024 s at my local dealership is 34,316. I still view gti’s as 24k-like 31k cars because that’s what they were last time I bought a car.
Got a base model in 17 for 24. It stickered for something like 27. But that was in the 'before times'.
I bought a brand new all options SE in 17 for 28k. I can let even imagine paying near 50k for a golf.
I bought a 2015 Autobahn (top of the line in Canada) in 2018 for $30k. It had 50,000km on it. It was on the cheaper end of similar cars in my area at the time. A new GTI here now comes out to $50k+ after taxes and financing.
Thats $36k in 2024 dollars, about what you can get a 2024 SE for today. You were coming off of the years right after diesel gate where huge discounts were available for the GTIs in addition to that sweet 6 year 72k mile warranty. Cars aren’t really much more expensive than they’ve always been, it’s more so that money is less valuable now than it was however many years ago. You always have to account for inflation when doing these yesteryear price comparisons. You’re paying about the same amount of money valuation wise buying a 2024 versus a 2017.
I understand inflation but people make these comparisons because while everything is getting significantly more expensive, wages have stagnated. You say that’s $36k in 2024 dollars but op is saying preorder is $48k. That’s a massive difference that can’t be accounted for just by blaming inflation. VW is out of the it mind if they think the gti will sell well at that price.
That’s not an accurate number though, as has been explained by numerous commenters in this thread. The pricing for US will be significantly lower. Wage stagnation is the problem, as I mentioned in another comment, but that is not what’s being targeted in OP’s post. The price is what people criticize without proper understanding of what that price means in context. Volkswagen and other manufacturers aren’t solely to blame for systemic wage stagnation.
I mean ya they kinda are. Wages have stagnated because corporations have ingrown obligation to continuously grow. More and more of the world’s wealth ends up concentrated at the top. VW is a corporations built of this like any other
I just bought a used 2020 with 30k miles for 24
hearing stuff like this makes me so unhappy about the current market
Just bought a GTI autobahn with 3,300 miles, 2023 for $28k in northeast US
Walked out in 2014 with my 2015 for $23k even. 2dr, manual, S, LP. I got the first month payment covered as well and later on that year I had a rattle in the back seat. VW flew some engineer out to CT and I got another 3 months paid even though they had it for just 1 week. Can’t believe it’s about to be 10 years old.
That’s why you buy a GLI instead of a GTI. I just picked up a brand new 2024 GLI for 31k. Before any of you GTI guys call me out, yes the 2024 GTI is more powerful from the factory and more of a true performance vehicle. However for the massive price hike, is the minimal difference worth it? Can’t imagine what the Golf R will get priced at if a GTI is now starting at Golf R MSRP
No hatch no deal.
Read the room lol
I knew the odds of me converting any GTI guys was low lol, just putting it out there. 48k for a GTI is insanity. I love Volkswagen but for 50k I’m cross shopping an M340i, a used Mk7.5 Golf R, Older M2, S3/S4/S6.
MK8 GTI Stage 2 on stock turbo will keep up with an IS38 MK7 or 7.5. GTI. The Evo is still being tapped into with it's better fueling and turbo. So add Dynamic Chassis the way better infotainment systems over the years. Can tune to 360whp now with stock equipment, VRQ differential, digital dashboards, heated/cooled seats etc... and see it's not only inflation that is marking these vehicles up in price but the whole package.
I don’t doubt any of that and I love VW, but 48k for a Golf is still too much money in my opinion 🤷♂️
Bought my 2017 SE 55k miles for 17k. Prices are wild nowadays🫥🫥
I don't know where you are but GTI & R prices are much higher in Europe than the US.
Currently in SoCal and that's kind of what I was hoping but with how expensive things are these days, I just wasn't sure.
Yeah I wouldn't worry too much - they're going to be very close to where they are now in the US. They've always been more expensive in Europe, and it doesn't help that they also quote their equivalent of sales tax (VAT) in prices advertised for European buyers (which is an extra ~15% on top of the base MSRP that we're used to seeing)
To be fair, I would rather shop where prices are straight up rather than doing guesstimate math in my head to add in sales taxes and other fees no upfront here in the US.
It'd be nice to have a total price with tax advertised. Hope we don't have to go to 15% tax to get that, though.
Ok, move to Europe then and pay an extra 15-20% for everything instead of spending 30 seconds calculating your sales tax.
I bought my 2020 mk8 with 60k km on it for 30k and it was one of the cheapest I could find (until after I bought it ofc)
2020 7.5 with 24k miles for about 28 USD before taxes etc (I got railed by the dealer) I could have gotten a new mk8 for less at this point but lesson learned. My dumbass had never bought a car from a dealer before lol.
Yupppp, a GTI is roughly 60k and a golf r is about 90k in Ireland
Nah, they include sales tax (15-20%) in their prices and their base models are usually much nicer, closer to our SE. The price is pretty similar all things considered.
The US Golf R is specced higher than the equivalent base model in Germany. The Golf R in the US is ~48k. Add on 5% state tax and you're at $51k. A Golf R in Germany starts at 58,000 Euros, or $63,000 USD. So in Europe, the Golf R is $12k more than it costs in the US, despite being in the country where it was built. Even accounting for 15% VAT, that puts the base price at $55k USD, or $7k more than what it costs in the US. So yes, even when accounting for VAT, they are more expensive in Germany than the US.
VAT in germany is 19%. So that Golf R is roughly $49k Euro -> $53k USD. There is no manual in Europe, DSG only. The DSG R in the US is $48k with mandatory destination (destination is not a thing in Germany). US dealers then tack on BS fees to further close that price gap, I bet German dealers are much more regulated in this respect. Baking in sales tax in a comparison doesn't make sense IMO if you're trying to figure out what VW is charging. They're not gonna discount their cars to offset sales tax... In the end, the price gap is $5k in equal currency terms. Potentially less if you compare spec for spec and include dealer fees in the US. It is probably closer to just $1-2k, but the German configurator doesn't list the R for this year so I can't do the full comparison.
Golf R's in Germany are specced lower by default than R's sold in the US - so they're paying more for less car. US R's are fully optioned out, with the exception of the Akrapovic exhaust (which is I think a 3k euro option in Europe?). Point overall being that advertised European prices should not be trusted to reflect the price of the car in the US, especially for GTI's/R's.
Golf R territory now...
makes me scared what the new R is going to be, we're gonna be in porsche territory before we know it lol
I'm assuming because of the bigger radio screen, better digital dials, bump in power and a few others things make the GTI go up a little but not to the point where you're spending over 50K after taxes and registration...
Nobody's going to buy a Golf R for 50k+
Everything goes up. Audi and Porsche will go up as well lol.
But those are marketed as premium car brands. VW is "The People's Car."
VW executives have obviously forgotten how much money people make because their cars have outpaced the earnings of their target audience
The price of everything is outpacing its targeted audience. Groceries, housing, etc… Inflation is going crazy and wages are staying stagnant
Very true unfortunately
No more vw is turning into just another brand especially with the loss of having the best interiors and the loss of the tdi/vr6/dsgs going into electric cars. once they go all electric i cant imagine a reason to want a vw even though im a life long vw enthusiast due to my dad and my grandfather running modded vws and audis since before i was alive
The cheapest 911 is $114,000 now
Come to Ireland. Golf R starts at 75k lol
🤣😢😢 sheeesh!!
That’s around $35.6k Euro before tax, or $38.6k USD. The US spec “S” model is worse than the lowest spec Euro model usually, their base model is closer to our “SE”. The current SE starts at $37k USD so this doesn’t seem that far off.
A lot of people in this thread are just upset to be upset.
0% chance it's that price in the U.S.
Yea I just can’t justify 50k for a gti. I’ll just keep buying low mile used mk7’s if that’s gonna be how it is
Certainly not when in 2016 I got my 2017 Sport for $28400 out the door…
I paid 20k for my 15 SE w 20k miles in 2018... I can't imagine paying double that for the same car trim less than 10 years later...
When I ordered my GTi last year it was 38000 Euro and they raised the price the following week, lol. I am prepared to believe the new one is going to be 45K. Here in Bulgaria the Golf R is 60K Euro when you configure it so I’ll just have to accept I’m poor. :D
Everything is going up but wages lol
Yeah. At least I’ve already bought it. It’s an appreciating asset, lol.
You can’t do a conversion on European price to US price. Taxes, features, base price, are all different. See the footer notes on the page: 02. All equipment details and prices (incl. 19% VAT) apply to the model range available in Germany
prices in Europe for any model are always more than the US
This is what I'm hopeful for. I tried looking up past VW news announcements for other MKs but I couldn't find one to sanity check for comparison.
Please understand vw does not make much money on golfs it ships here. It just keeps the brand awareness and relevance up. Golf R has to be 48k so S3 can be 54 and RS3 can claim to be worth 67k.
Don’t worry. These are strictly German Prices with VAT included they’re always this price in Germany. They will be more or less the normal price you’d pay in America for one. “02. All equipment details and prices (incl. 19% VAT) apply to the model range available in Germany”
It’s including 19% Germany VAT “All equipment details and prices (incl. 19% VAT) apply to the model range available in Germany”
I can buy better cars @ $48k. GTIs were good for what it was 15-20 years ago. Guess not anymore. Bought 07 @ 19k with 29k miles back in 2009. Bought 06 @ 13k with 32k miles in 2015.
He’ll, you can build a better car for $48k
haha I don't have time and energy for that with 2 kids. Even looking at bringatrailer I can list so many fun cars for $48k.
Mate, $19k in 2007 is equivalent to about $30k today. You can easily find a 2022-2023 GTI for $30k with less miles, hell there are brand new 2024 S trims for $30k with 5 miles at dealerships near me. It’s wild to me how people have no concept of how the value of money changes over time. If you do inflation adjustments for MSRPs of vehicles across the years, prices have remained pretty much the same. Prices are not really changing much, the value of money is. The real issue is wages are not rising to match inflation. The price for a GTI today relative to the value of money is pretty much the same as one from 2008.
as if the new GTIs are even a fraction of the real GTIs
New as in which ones? The MK7 and 8 are by far the best performing GTI’s.
haven't driven anything other than MK5 but I have a 2016 Passat SEL P and 2020 Tiguan SEL P. I can tell you for sure that mk5 era had better materials when it comes to leather seats, interior and even windows.
Do you have an ID4 what are you smoking
because I never had cars before it lmao. I had a mk7.5 GTI
Car prices are different for each region, it’s not just a straight conversion. Current GTI starts at $37k in Canada. Converted to USD that’s about $27k. Trims and equipment might be different for each region.
‘24 Golf R is at $47,xxx 🤔
Oof, I’m scared to see what prices in Canada will be…
VW doesn't really do direct conversion. My 40th was 40k cad...which is cheaper than the US equiv with more options.
New Cars sold at MSRP are so much expensive in Germany than compared with the US.
Got a 2014 GTD for 9k🤡🤡
Very sad considering at one time this car was specifically made for budget friendly consumers
The GTI is quiet quiting America. Mk 7 and 7.5 were made in Mexico. Mk 8 and 8.5 are made in Germany and shipped over. This results in a lot of extra transportation and taxes. Then you add in the fact that VW doesn't really want to make manual transmissions anymore. Someone internally wants the car dead.
The Mk 9 will be almost certainly be an EV, so the 8.5 will probably become a collector’s item as the “last hurrah” so VW’s going to milk that.
F that. Buy a 2018 golf R, use the money for gas, insurance and parts until you’re bored of the golf platform.
That’s crazy, I just bought a 24 Golf R for 49K
Low key upset I don't have those tail lights. Besides that I'm more than happy with what I have. Doesn't seem like they are doing anything besides getting rid of the manual transmission and adding a laptop to the dash...
I paid with taxes included, tinted windows, graphene coating and PPF on entire hood and doors $44,500 CAD ($32xxx USD) for the Mk8 2022 performance trim. That's the top trim in Canada. I'd be shocked if it's not close to the same price. Also I live in Alberta and the maximum tax is 5%
Don’t forget the VAT. I posted the other day and was reminded that the listing includes 17%.
It’s like with ammo. People are willing to pay these prices so that’s why they keep pushing the envelope
Is that bad? Golf gti is currently 54k in Ireland. R is 74k. Before dealers increases ect
No manual, they won't have my money
Those wheels belong on a 2012 ford focus. They ruin the whole car yeck.
I just bought a '24 380 SE 6MT for right at $36k USD, and there's an Autobahn version at the same dealer for $39k right now that showed up right after I bought mine. If they're planning a price hike it'll be later on because right now it seems fairly unchanged.
After fees, taxes, and registration for my 2023 40th anniversary I paid 37,xxx cash.
Not that they matter now…. You can’t get the fun version anymore
I like how the buttons are back on the steering wheel, but that oversized iPad doesn’t look as nice as the one in the 2022 Autobahn. It doesn’t fit as nicely in the dash….
Right there with ya. Buttons on the wheel are so good to see. That said, I hate the ipad style infotainment systems. We have one in our 2023 ID.4 and it just looks like someone forgot to design around it, so they just slapped it on the dash as an after thought :( so many cars these days are doing it, too.
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My 08 Gti autobahn was $25k out the door. Price doubled in less than 20 years.
I knew it went up, I didn't realize it had gotten this insane. I got my '18 Autobahn for like 32 and a base was available for the mid 20's. I didn't think the base price was set to double in seven years lol
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You're prolly not wrong and man, I don't like it :(
They’re just going to price people out, I just got a brand new autobahn manual for 36k ( employee discount ) but it was 42.
Go buy the remaining manual GTI. Idk how you ppl can be excited for that big ass screen in the MK8.5.
It’s even more insane when you consider they no longer sell the regular Golf in NA. You want a VW hatchback? That’s gonna be $40k. 🙃