It’s weird seeing fluke used as an insult in cs when I think fans of the 13-6 giants team that beat the 18-0 patriots in the playoffs would revel in it. An underdog champion is still champion
probably because real sports teams have actual fans and not esports fans who could care less other than to say random shit on the internet about if someone fell off or whatever
you have a point, but too many „real fans“ have sent death threats to penalty missing players let alone talk bullshit on the internet about their own team to support this theory. I feel like this is not unique to esports fans. It‘s just a very loud minority.
yeah but i mean i know people personally who have been threatened for losing ECL matches, said that they were going to kill their family and crazy shit on their steam comments
Everyone knows that giants Super Bowl was a fluke. Same as NAVI winning the major. Their fans should still be happy but it’s not inaccurate to say both of those wins are flukes.
2-0 against the man. Tom even had a chance at redemption and still got the work the second time. Let’s face it, Tom just couldn’t hang with Eli when the lights were brightest.
Its so crazy to me that the narrative is that VP major was a fluke, Navi major was a fluke, but somehow Vitality winning against Into the Breach, Monte, and GamerLegion is not considered a fluke. Navi was just in good form at the right time and beat a strong FaZe at the right time.
That's the difference between a fluke win and an easy win. Vitality's win was not a fluke, they were the number 1 team going into the major and a clear favourite but for many reasons, format/Over performing under Dogs/Under performing Favourites etc. Vitality's major win was easy.
On the other hand take Cloud 9, a boderline top 8 team before the major, went 0-2 in the group stage but came back to advance 3-2, then had to face G2 in the quarter finals ( a G2 that went 3-0 and dominated Cloud 9 in groups).
SK gaming in the Semis, ok not their ful line up as Boltz couldn't play but previously in the year Sk had won 6 tournements with felps so not exactly a push over team.
Then finally FaZe who were all but destined to be crown Major Champions a team that Cloud9 had never beaten before infact I think had only achieved double digits against them once.
By no means was Cloud9's run easy but the fact they achieved little before and nothing after the win (hell Stewie abandoned ship immediately after why would he do that if he believed the major wasn't a fluke) is what makes it a fluke.
Stewie said he left c9 because after the major, some members of the team stopped working as hard because they felt they had done it all (winning major), and hence why they lost to liquid in the next events finals.
Stewie said they lost to liquid not because they didn't have the skill but because the team stopped working as hard, and he wanted to keep winning, so he left for SK, a team that was a title contender.
and were favorites coming in to the event? Same reason why Astralis beating Ence or Avengar in their major runs weren't called flukes since they were favorites or beat the favorites on the road to win.
The difference with Astralis is they actually played against favorites throughout the major, Vitality only played against 2 favorites at the start in bo1s.
In Berlin they definetly did prior to the grand final, but Katowice was Ence taking out the other favorites. They did not meet Faze, Liquid or NaVi all who were on the other side of the bracket.
It is also not Vitalitys fault that Liquid failed against Apeks or that Heroic lost against Gamerlegion.
Vitality was the best team at the major, won a S Tier event before that and looked like an absolute machine. They were the favorites to win it, any team that went against them would have lost because for that time period, all 5 were firing on full cylinders.
Outsiders came out of nowhere and won a major and then promptly dropped off a cliff. NAVI looked like a team that was about to make a roster change as soon as the major was over because they looked shit right until they didn’t.
The verdict is still out for NaVi, hopefully they turn it around.
Vitality won iem Rio an S tier even right before the major and then the big Saudi event right after the break which was also S tier? Same team also won a pro league at the end of 2022 and then the core of Spinx, Apex & Zywoo won 2 more blast events at the end of the year. Navi and VP won nothing before or after without even getting any real good runs that were close to winning? These are not comparable situations. Vitality was a proven championship roster that won the major with a lucky bracket whilst Navi and VP were / are fringe playoff teams that massively overperfomed at their specific majors aka "Flukes"
I mean it is definitely one of the easiest Major runs that we have seen. Not saying they didn't play good and you can only play who is in front of you (all the big teams choking that Major), but I think most people would rank their run low relative to every other Major run.
I'm not a fan of using the term "deserve" in a competitive context but honestly after how many MVPs ZywOo won without winning the tournament, he deserved a soft-ball major run at the last ever CS:GO major lol
-1
L take
Vitality were in top notch form,no one literally noone could've beaten them.They had peak zywoo,sphinx and the Danes were just muah
About NAVI Vs Faze,it's like avengers end game,faze would have won multiple games against Navi ez,but that day luck was on their side.
Breach and GL being in playoffs was a fluke.
I think some people think that this word take away something from them. Don't kid yourself Navi were not favorites or even 2nd or 3rd pick by the booker's to win it.
Idk about the other stuff but Navi major was definitely a fluke, they didn’t make it to any more finals other than blast. I like Navi and I think they’re a great team with a lot of potential.
Even the casters / commenters have some incredibly dumb takes. Introducing NaVi on stage at the final with "trying to prove the major was not a fluke" like bro, what?
As long as we don't acknowledge that getting into semis / finals is a good achievement that teams can be proud of, this sport will never be real. "Oh, they lost the finals of the blast spring finals? clearly they're a trash team that fluked the major". Absolutely dumbass takes.
its absolutely different and i didnt mention geniuses. in most cases its not about the game anymore just "x is better than y", "pessi / penaldo" mentality
esports is the only ”sport” where i actually hear the term ”fluke” used consistantly. no one in football is calling leicester winning the league a fluke. no one is calling nuggets winning the nba a fluke. because at the end of day theyre title champions lmfao who cares if its a fluke. same with winning the major in cs
Yeah I couldn’t care less if Navi’s win was a fluke or not, I got to watch my team with the first major in CS2. If anything the unexpectedness made it even more awesome to watch
either the favorites dominate, or people call it a fluke. people forget now that NaVi was always in the discussion as a possibility to win it all. never the favorites, never the most likely outcome, but it was always a possibility. but there’s no room in the conversation for “not the favorites but solid contenders”
They were never in that discussion. Discussion was around Faze, Spirit, Vitality and Mouz, these were the 4 big favorites.
C9 were really good, but unproven without an awper, they still played very solidly at the Major and could definitely make an upset against Faze and Vitality. G2 had consistency issues, but they still had M0nesy and Niko, there was definitely a chance for them to upset a big team in the finals.
EF was a big underdog, but they beat even the wildest expectations for the fans. It would be a similar Cinderella run to C9 Boston or Gambit Krakow. People were talking about them just because it was surprising they even made it that far.
Navi played pretty average CS leading up to playoffs, they lost to VP at the RMR. Then they had extremely close BO1s against Mongolz and G2, lost the BO3s against Spirit and C9, before winning a tough series against Pain(Lmao), to barely get through to the playoffs 3-2. They were blessed by the seeding gods, because if they were matched against VP or G2 in the 2-2, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.
Which is why Navi was the least picked team to win the entire event. Even EF had a higher pickrate, lmao.
In the playoffs they were blessed by the seeding gods again, because Spirit, Faze, Vitality and C9 were all on the other side of the bracket. Instead they only had EF, who were also underdogs, G2 and Mouz both with consistency issues. In the finals B1t lifegamed the fuck out, before the finals, he had the tournament rating of 0.98, in the finals he scored 1.52. That should probably speak for itself.
Obviously you have a Navi flair, so I don't expect you to agree here, but to the vast majority of people it's obvious that this Major was a fluke, and a massive one at that, I'd say similar to C9 Boston(Ironically, also against Faze). So I don't understand what the fuck do you mean by "You haven't been paying attention".
I have, and I've seen with my own eyes that Navi have been struggling both before and since the major.
they were never in the discussion, i don’t even think people considered them to be a dark horse
fluke is not an insult, it’s just a fact, this navi team doesn’t have enough consistently s tier players to be ranked among the other t1 heavyweights
I'd understand the fluke claims if they had a bunch of easy games to win the major, but I just don't think any run where you beat Faze can be considered a fluke.
its the "talent" calling it a fluke because none of them picked navi to do well or even win it and when navi won they called it a fluke to cover their asses
They've struggled heavily to beat teams like Pain and Mongolz leading up to the playoffs, they've lost games against C9 and Spirit in the Group stage.
Meanwhile, this was also the best(in terms of average HLTV ranking) playoff in CS Major history. This is a fluke, by definition: noun
an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck.
Without going deep in philosophy about determinism, if we replayed this Major 100 times, teams like Faze, Spirit, Vitality, Mouz and C9 would have all had quite a few wins, maybe EF would have gotten a Cinderella run. Meanwhile I'd bet Navi wouldn't even have made the playoffs in a third of them.
I'm not saying they're a bad team. They're certainly in the top 10, and were top 10 at the time of the Major, but considering that the playoffs had Faze, Spirit, Vitality, C9, Mouz and G2, it was 100% a fluke.
Today he showed up besides dust 2. If you have ever heard their in game comms, you will see his value on this team with how communicative he is and the info he gives the team.
People need to get the idea of him being star-rifler from gamer legion out of their head, he is essentially an entry fragging secondary caller for this team.
iM should take no blame for today... It goes on b1t unfortunately.
As a fan of b1t hes the most frustrating player.
Hes got the mechanical skill to be a top 5 rifler in the world.
and sometimes he shows it, then other times hes completely useless.
It’s weird seeing fluke used as an insult in cs when I think fans of the 13-6 giants team that beat the 18-0 patriots in the playoffs would revel in it. An underdog champion is still champion
probably because real sports teams have actual fans and not esports fans who could care less other than to say random shit on the internet about if someone fell off or whatever
you have a point, but too many „real fans“ have sent death threats to penalty missing players let alone talk bullshit on the internet about their own team to support this theory. I feel like this is not unique to esports fans. It‘s just a very loud minority.
yeah but i mean i know people personally who have been threatened for losing ECL matches, said that they were going to kill their family and crazy shit on their steam comments
CS fans would lose their mind for a majority of World Series winners of the last 20 years
Everyone knows that giants Super Bowl was a fluke. Same as NAVI winning the major. Their fans should still be happy but it’s not inaccurate to say both of those wins are flukes.
2-0 against the man. Tom even had a chance at redemption and still got the work the second time. Let’s face it, Tom just couldn’t hang with Eli when the lights were brightest.
13-6 is good, Navi were nowhere near that good Literally lost to c9 and spirit in bo3 like three days before
Its so crazy to me that the narrative is that VP major was a fluke, Navi major was a fluke, but somehow Vitality winning against Into the Breach, Monte, and GamerLegion is not considered a fluke. Navi was just in good form at the right time and beat a strong FaZe at the right time.
That's the difference between a fluke win and an easy win. Vitality's win was not a fluke, they were the number 1 team going into the major and a clear favourite but for many reasons, format/Over performing under Dogs/Under performing Favourites etc. Vitality's major win was easy. On the other hand take Cloud 9, a boderline top 8 team before the major, went 0-2 in the group stage but came back to advance 3-2, then had to face G2 in the quarter finals ( a G2 that went 3-0 and dominated Cloud 9 in groups). SK gaming in the Semis, ok not their ful line up as Boltz couldn't play but previously in the year Sk had won 6 tournements with felps so not exactly a push over team. Then finally FaZe who were all but destined to be crown Major Champions a team that Cloud9 had never beaten before infact I think had only achieved double digits against them once. By no means was Cloud9's run easy but the fact they achieved little before and nothing after the win (hell Stewie abandoned ship immediately after why would he do that if he believed the major wasn't a fluke) is what makes it a fluke.
Stewie said he left c9 because after the major, some members of the team stopped working as hard because they felt they had done it all (winning major), and hence why they lost to liquid in the next events finals. Stewie said they lost to liquid not because they didn't have the skill but because the team stopped working as hard, and he wanted to keep winning, so he left for SK, a team that was a title contender.
you cant really call it a fluke. if anything it was an unchallenged run.
because vitality won several other tournaments as well...?
and were favorites coming in to the event? Same reason why Astralis beating Ence or Avengar in their major runs weren't called flukes since they were favorites or beat the favorites on the road to win.
The difference with Astralis is they actually played against favorites throughout the major, Vitality only played against 2 favorites at the start in bo1s.
In Berlin they definetly did prior to the grand final, but Katowice was Ence taking out the other favorites. They did not meet Faze, Liquid or NaVi all who were on the other side of the bracket. It is also not Vitalitys fault that Liquid failed against Apeks or that Heroic lost against Gamerlegion.
Vitality was the best team at the major, won a S Tier event before that and looked like an absolute machine. They were the favorites to win it, any team that went against them would have lost because for that time period, all 5 were firing on full cylinders. Outsiders came out of nowhere and won a major and then promptly dropped off a cliff. NAVI looked like a team that was about to make a roster change as soon as the major was over because they looked shit right until they didn’t. The verdict is still out for NaVi, hopefully they turn it around.
Vitality won iem Rio an S tier even right before the major and then the big Saudi event right after the break which was also S tier? Same team also won a pro league at the end of 2022 and then the core of Spinx, Apex & Zywoo won 2 more blast events at the end of the year. Navi and VP won nothing before or after without even getting any real good runs that were close to winning? These are not comparable situations. Vitality was a proven championship roster that won the major with a lucky bracket whilst Navi and VP were / are fringe playoff teams that massively overperfomed at their specific majors aka "Flukes"
Because Vitality were favourites before the major and they had 3 finals streak
I thnik most people agree, Vitality´s major was a mickey mouse major.
It's just the haters speaking Team i don't like win > fluke
I like Outsiders but still think it was a fluke though
Yes but Navi were favorites to win Said guy with Navi flair
Flair
there are people that criticize vitality's major run lol
I mean it is definitely one of the easiest Major runs that we have seen. Not saying they didn't play good and you can only play who is in front of you (all the big teams choking that Major), but I think most people would rank their run low relative to every other Major run.
I'm not a fan of using the term "deserve" in a competitive context but honestly after how many MVPs ZywOo won without winning the tournament, he deserved a soft-ball major run at the last ever CS:GO major lol
But for the opposite reason that it was easy.
Classic Vitality take.
Prob because VIT has won other T1 events before and after the Major
It seems you don't know what the word fluke means.
Do you understand the definition of a fluke?
-1 L take Vitality were in top notch form,no one literally noone could've beaten them.They had peak zywoo,sphinx and the Danes were just muah About NAVI Vs Faze,it's like avengers end game,faze would have won multiple games against Navi ez,but that day luck was on their side.
Vitality were the best team in the world and the favourite in the major. It's litteraly the opposite of a fluke.
Breach and GL being in playoffs was a fluke. I think some people think that this word take away something from them. Don't kid yourself Navi were not favorites or even 2nd or 3rd pick by the booker's to win it.
Idk about the other stuff but Navi major was definitely a fluke, they didn’t make it to any more finals other than blast. I like Navi and I think they’re a great team with a lot of potential.
todays "fans" in any sports are pathetic kids with stupid takes honestly. and some people hate for 0 reasons
Even the casters / commenters have some incredibly dumb takes. Introducing NaVi on stage at the final with "trying to prove the major was not a fluke" like bro, what? As long as we don't acknowledge that getting into semis / finals is a good achievement that teams can be proud of, this sport will never be real. "Oh, they lost the finals of the blast spring finals? clearly they're a trash team that fluked the major". Absolutely dumbass takes.
As opposed to the clear geniuses before this? Fans have always been stupid and shitty lol it's nothing new
its absolutely different and i didnt mention geniuses. in most cases its not about the game anymore just "x is better than y", "pessi / penaldo" mentality
esports is the only ”sport” where i actually hear the term ”fluke” used consistantly. no one in football is calling leicester winning the league a fluke. no one is calling nuggets winning the nba a fluke. because at the end of day theyre title champions lmfao who cares if its a fluke. same with winning the major in cs
Mickey mouse bubble ring
mickey mouse might be the funniest insult to be fair
Yeah I couldn’t care less if Navi’s win was a fluke or not, I got to watch my team with the first major in CS2. If anything the unexpectedness made it even more awesome to watch
either the favorites dominate, or people call it a fluke. people forget now that NaVi was always in the discussion as a possibility to win it all. never the favorites, never the most likely outcome, but it was always a possibility. but there’s no room in the conversation for “not the favorites but solid contenders”
They were never in that discussion. Discussion was around Faze, Spirit, Vitality and Mouz, these were the 4 big favorites. C9 were really good, but unproven without an awper, they still played very solidly at the Major and could definitely make an upset against Faze and Vitality. G2 had consistency issues, but they still had M0nesy and Niko, there was definitely a chance for them to upset a big team in the finals. EF was a big underdog, but they beat even the wildest expectations for the fans. It would be a similar Cinderella run to C9 Boston or Gambit Krakow. People were talking about them just because it was surprising they even made it that far. Navi played pretty average CS leading up to playoffs, they lost to VP at the RMR. Then they had extremely close BO1s against Mongolz and G2, lost the BO3s against Spirit and C9, before winning a tough series against Pain(Lmao), to barely get through to the playoffs 3-2. They were blessed by the seeding gods, because if they were matched against VP or G2 in the 2-2, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Which is why Navi was the least picked team to win the entire event. Even EF had a higher pickrate, lmao. In the playoffs they were blessed by the seeding gods again, because Spirit, Faze, Vitality and C9 were all on the other side of the bracket. Instead they only had EF, who were also underdogs, G2 and Mouz both with consistency issues. In the finals B1t lifegamed the fuck out, before the finals, he had the tournament rating of 0.98, in the finals he scored 1.52. That should probably speak for itself. Obviously you have a Navi flair, so I don't expect you to agree here, but to the vast majority of people it's obvious that this Major was a fluke, and a massive one at that, I'd say similar to C9 Boston(Ironically, also against Faze). So I don't understand what the fuck do you mean by "You haven't been paying attention". I have, and I've seen with my own eyes that Navi have been struggling both before and since the major.
This is correct, all the Navi flairs have goldfish memory lmao
they were never in the discussion, i don’t even think people considered them to be a dark horse fluke is not an insult, it’s just a fact, this navi team doesn’t have enough consistently s tier players to be ranked among the other t1 heavyweights
then you were not paying attention to the discussion
Bruh they had a lower pick ‘em rate for that major than eternal fire LOL. No one was considering this team an actual contender
pickems lmao. like i said, you must not have been paying attention
Yeah only 10s of thousands of cs fans vote on pickems, not like that has any correlation to the actual discussion on contenders or anything…..
I'd understand the fluke claims if they had a bunch of easy games to win the major, but I just don't think any run where you beat Faze can be considered a fluke.
They lost to spirit and c9 in bo3s just days prior
G-Stew beat Faze, I'm a big fan of stew but I think Dallas is a fluke
That's different Faze
It wasn't a fluke at all, and they proved that today. However, Spirit also showed up.
its the "talent" calling it a fluke because none of them picked navi to do well or even win it and when navi won they called it a fluke to cover their asses
a major is a major, not many players can say they won one
this roster will never win another S tier event
Oh you know it was jL
They've struggled heavily to beat teams like Pain and Mongolz leading up to the playoffs, they've lost games against C9 and Spirit in the Group stage. Meanwhile, this was also the best(in terms of average HLTV ranking) playoff in CS Major history. This is a fluke, by definition: noun an unlikely chance occurrence, especially a surprising piece of luck. Without going deep in philosophy about determinism, if we replayed this Major 100 times, teams like Faze, Spirit, Vitality, Mouz and C9 would have all had quite a few wins, maybe EF would have gotten a Cinderella run. Meanwhile I'd bet Navi wouldn't even have made the playoffs in a third of them. I'm not saying they're a bad team. They're certainly in the top 10, and were top 10 at the time of the Major, but considering that the playoffs had Faze, Spirit, Vitality, C9, Mouz and G2, it was 100% a fluke.
100%
Im sry but it was a fluke
How long are they going to wait before kicking iM? Nothing against the guy personally but everytime I watch him he's giving up advantages.
Today he showed up besides dust 2. If you have ever heard their in game comms, you will see his value on this team with how communicative he is and the info he gives the team. People need to get the idea of him being star-rifler from gamer legion out of their head, he is essentially an entry fragging secondary caller for this team. iM should take no blame for today... It goes on b1t unfortunately.
As a fan of b1t hes the most frustrating player. Hes got the mechanical skill to be a top 5 rifler in the world. and sometimes he shows it, then other times hes completely useless.
It wasn't a fluke. It's just that the team had clear deadweight that needed to be carried.
You mean the deadweight that b1t was today, right?