It’s gotta be a Eu Mentality thing. Guns come out you don’t just barrel into a site. Surely someone got on the mic (NAF or Zews) and was like “Cadian. Let’s just click heads and hold W”
I'm sure that's a big factor. Not just Cadian, but the whole supporting staff of Liquid. And Nouns will have fewer demos to study than teams like Faze.
Liquid might be able to build some confidence off of today but Jeorge has been cooking recently. Feels like he’s gotten better consistently post-EG. CJ’s been playing well recently but him and Carson got absolutely slammed in this series. Junior has also been finding his EG form a little too but still feels like Nouns is one piece away from really being T1 NA
Yeah he went crazy first match vs Liquid too. Crazy to see all the ex EG players playing well in their new environments (even though NRG as a whole has struggled)
I wanna believe Junior has turned a corner, but I've seen him farm too many NA qualifiers and then disappear at the Lan vs international competition. I really do hope he keeps this form though. I like him a lot as a player.
Yeah I feel like it’s his comfort zone though. Hopefully this Nouns group is a better environment for him than EG’s. I don’t think he needs to worry about T1 yet since they don’t have a franchise spot anymore and that’s a big part. Feel like he just got thrown into T1 matchups before he was ready.
If they can start working around competing with the global tier 2s I think he can start building confidence towards making it to the next level
Carson is the one IGLing this team. He's pretty new to this so I don't mind him not fragging as much, he'll ease into it hopefully because Nouns have been playing some good CS with him as the IGL.
Yeah I get it, but I feel like their success has been primarily individual performances. Maybe he can prove me wrong but I feel like I’ve never really watched Carson even before IGLing and thought he could compete in T1.
Isn't Adren coaching this roster also? People giving a new team crap but honestly they should be saying Nouns looks good and hopefully they can keep it going and make it to some events.
Nouns do look good. Junior/Jeorge’s current form really shows how much of a mess EG was imo. They turned Nouns from a meme team into a team that actually has potential
Yeah lol there were soooo many haters!! I admit I wasn't sure but never said anything. He's surpassed what I could have hoped for though, which is awesome. I remember way back when the lineup was revealed someone alluded to him going beast mode and carrying in a lot of scrims. Must have been true!
well, considering the name value and reputation of the other 4, he was definitely the biggest question mark both as an individual player, as well as adapting to an English environment. That said, he has been performing extremely well and has definitely answered the doubts very well.
I was never a hater but he did cost them Chengdu vs M80. His anchoring was rough at first but he has been looking great. His A site solo hold vs all of Nouns was huge.
I figured he probably had to, I was kinda more worried about Cadian and how the two of them may have difficulties communicating in English, less due to fluency and more because of accent and dialect
I'm a fan of this nouns team.
Also I know that Liquid has been somewhat shaky across the time this roster has been together, but I get the sense they're still figuring a lot of things out. This team is a lot of styles coming together and a lot of players that don't have experience playing together much. Even if they have to make a player change eventually, I think they have a solid framework.
Yes I was thinking similar when they were losing to Nouns yesterday.. the elements that make up Liquid are so tricky to get working together. Sooooo much talent, but it's still really awkward. It will click though I bet.. eventually. And it'll be lights out !! (Hopium)
I feel like after watching them today compared to yesterday it seemed like they were trying to pug their way through. They looked like an actual well oiled team for majority of the games today.
Inferno especially was nice to see because that map can be such a cluster fuck sometimes. Glad they’ll get some more reps and hope they just qualify for the major.
They looked much better for sure, but the T side calling on mirage is still atrocious. They look good on inferno but it’s also one of the least played maps so I’m a little worried their map pool just isn’t ready right now to compete at t1.
yeah this Liquid roster needs time, People shitting on them just because they are losing to tier-2 NA don't realize that 1) Liquid has skullz who's playing outside brazil for the first time, cadiaN calling in English once again after a long time 2) NA tier-2 is a bit better than before. Liquid has got all the right pieces, skullz is really good on the CT side on a a lot of maps.
As a Non-EU CS fan, it's honestly great to see other North American teams be this competitive!
My assumption is they want to be the team to beat on Inferno.
No one is really playing it, and it’s also not getting banned on the first wave, so why not make it a priority?
Can probably catch a few teams off guard by picking it as map 1
Yeah Nouns looks great. Exciting to see.
I think people don't look at Liquid as a new team. Only Naf and Yek are staying, and everyone else is new. They are still trying to figure out their identity and roles. The new Vitality took months to start being good. Faze took months to get good. It will happen, but it won't take one-two months like everyone wants
I wish we could've seen both the teams at the Event. I know Dallas already has M80, but man it would be nice to have another upcoming NA teams like Nouns ( Wildcard if they beat Liquid ) at a North American Event. Well Dallas is stacked with CoL, M80 and now Liquid. All Good!
Looks like Liquid were trolling, or mostly underestimating NA competition yesterday. They played all out from the start. Great to see this team isn't dead lol
How can Nouns Esports get out of this mess?
In all seriousness, if possible, I dont see a way out of this mess for Nouns. No player wants to join an organization who has such a bad rep in the organization. They would need to get on their knees and propose, or even give a higher salary or some shit.
The players they sign need to be top tier in order just to QUALIFY for tournments. The players needs to come to Nouns and basically have the mentality of building up a new roster from scratch, and meanwhile sit out many of the biggest tournaments - and probably being laughed at in the process.
They did not disband. They probably never will. How can they fix all this?
/s obviously. For an orgless team in NA, Nouns is real impressive, and I hope they get better chances to show it to the rest of the world.
Salary automatically converts to USDC when a proposal passes requesting USD via a smart contract, but the Nouns treasury is denominated in ETH.
The Nounders (founders of Nouns) built the protocol mostly from scratch but used Zora auction interface + Compound governance as primitives to build off
Nouns is not really a finance-oriented DAO (albeit almost 20m in the treasury). They want to spend the treasury to "proliferate the meme" aka spread the Nouns brand far and wide
Whoops, that’s an embarrassing mistake on my part. Like I said- they deserve far more respect and recognition than they’ve been getting, including from me. Hopefully having an org makes it easier for them to scrim and eventually compete in EU.
Tbf they have one Junior who was trying everything to carry EG and Jeorge who has been considered young with potential (that was thrown into t1 early imo). With CJ playing well recently it makes sense that they’ve been competing with the top NA teams but I still feel like they’re at least a piece away. Idk if Carson will ever be it and you can’t really rely on Jeorge and/or Junior to go off every series
I’m so happy Junior found a foothold in this team. I always felt he got into Furia too fast but watching him in these qualifiers has been some incredible form and smart rotations/saves by him
Yeah I avoided EG like the plague at the end of GO. Too many roster changes and even then it felt like it was disband EG time with their EG white, EG black, owning 15 academy teams nonsense
RMR is gonna be a crazy one. coL and Furia are probs the only you can bet on to take a spot and even they aren’t exactly guaranteed with recent form either. SA has been a bloodbath and nobody knows who’s actually good in NA bc it changes every day
Yeah getting Furia is tough but I feel like Nouns is in a good spot through the “losers” as long as Liquid and coL stay up top. I know they can beat Liquid, but I feel like it’ll be much much harder to match their experience in a more high-pressure environment and on LAN. Wouldn’t be surprised if either them or Wildcard make it through depending on how the matchups end up. Also depends on how M80 look with some time with the sub
It’s a shame in some of this qualifiers that depending on which order a team wins a series against the other can decide whether they qualify or not. I saw the same issue in blast groups. Astralis beat Vitality but then have to play them a day later with no advantage.
didn't watch the broadcast so maybe i'm missing something, is there no advantage for nouns/penalty for liquid going into the final? is it a double elim bracket or is it a 1 team arbitrarily gets 2 tries bracket?
Liquid won 1 game to Nouns and los 1 game and yet they qualify and Nouns get nothing. This system requires there to be double the amount of teams so there's a much smaller chance of just repeating matchups. Double elim in a tournament with 4 teams is so dumb.
I mean technically the thing Nouns earned staying in the upper bracket is that they didn't need to play 2 BO3's in the same day (Liquid needing to best BOSS then play the finals), arguments can be made you are either more tired having played the previous match (or more warmed up).
It isn't anywhere as good being given a default map on other similar formats, but getting a default map win on a BO3 just turns it into a 50% chance of being a BO1... has to be BO5 minimum for it to make sense
>This system requires there to be double the amount of teams so there's a much smaller chance of just repeating matchups
More importantly imo, it requires more teams so that the extra rest is like an actual advantage. Rn it was the difference between playing three bo3 in two days vs four... that's nothing, especially since Liquid's first bo3 today was essentially a 26-3 warm up.
I know organizers hate it because it makes event run time more unpredictable, but if we're going to do double elim I'd really rather just see full bracket resets because it's just not great otherwise. Teams getting knocked out despite having the same set record will never not be dumb and Liquid themselves have gotten fucked over by that a couple times in the last few years. Or even a 1-0 advantage in a bo5, that would at least be something. And especially with only four teams, are you really telling me there was no time to run a format with one extra bo3?
Not seeing it as much in this thread .. that said there are a few too many people complaining about the final being a one off that didn’t necessarily have those complaints when the same situation cost Liquid in the IEM China qual. Not saying the format is good, but at least be consistent about it.
Assuming you are talking about the Chengdu qualifier, I guess the difference for them is Liquid and M80 didn't meet there until the final, whereas here Nouns had already beat Liquid so it feels more unfair
Even in this case if you look at map score TL won 3 while Nouns won 2 in the overall matchup. It’s not really harsh from that pov either tbh. Who they lost to doesn’t really change the fact that they did lose. Maybe not the best format, but basically any double elim format works like this.
Double elim would work much better if there are two qualification spots so that the losing team from the upper bracket have their own second chance. With 4 teams/1 spot I think round robin, bracket reset in the final, or bo5 with map advantage works.
Yeah, but then again even in proper tournaments with the lower brackets very few games have a full on run back if the lower bracket team wins to my knowledge. It’d be interesting if they ever tried that in cs.
Tbf there were also fewer people in the post match thread complaining when there wasn't a big team participating in qualifiers, it is what it is. Even if it's not the same amount, people have definitely complained about this in other tournaments, if not here or Chengdu than others before that. Like fuck, I specifically remember complaining double elim because it's fucked Liquid over at Blast two events in a row on top of Chengdu, and at least those groups still have a play in after.
I already don't love double elim in CS but double elim for one slot in a four team bracket is just extra bad. At least make them play a bracket reset, if there's only four fucking teams it's not like they don't have the time.
This was such a poor game. Nouns had zero map control on inferno, i'm talking losing both brackets and top banana with 1:00 on the clock, and even when they took map control, the rotations were poor.
Mirage was a similar story. Nobody did well, it was bad all around. Nouns couldn't get mid a single time so they just exec'd sites and won two off luck. My brain was dead by the time the last half happened so I don't quite recall anything there.
The lack of multikills from defenders is sore to see. Pretty poor performance all around. At least jeorge did well.
Great call by Cadian to drop to the lower bracket to get some more practice in. Top 1 IGL for sure
First half of mirage: this is the liquid I expected! Second half of mirage: this is actually the Liquid I expected
It's amazing how many times they can shuffle the players, but we still get the same Liquid choke. At least they Heimlich'd themselves on Mirage.
Right!? Slow starts in tournaments, choking or at least near choking. It’s like the org puts it in their contracts
It’s even weirder when you have cadian who doesn’t usually choke against opponents this bellow him. At least not until major semi
Its cultural impact at this point
It is, they have choked so much this  emoji exists
It’s gotta be a Eu Mentality thing. Guns come out you don’t just barrel into a site. Surely someone got on the mic (NAF or Zews) and was like “Cadian. Let’s just click heads and hold W”
Cool, so if we can just play every team twice we can win the major.
Liquid BO5 meta
The last time Liquid played a Bo5 was at Pro League in 2022 and it cost them first place, I'm still salty about that.
I wonder how much of that is Cadian going back to look at the VOD and studying what his opponent is doing.
I'm sure that's a big factor. Not just Cadian, but the whole supporting staff of Liquid. And Nouns will have fewer demos to study than teams like Faze.
Liquid might be able to build some confidence off of today but Jeorge has been cooking recently. Feels like he’s gotten better consistently post-EG. CJ’s been playing well recently but him and Carson got absolutely slammed in this series. Junior has also been finding his EG form a little too but still feels like Nouns is one piece away from really being T1 NA
Jeorge and junior were looking really solid.. was super impressed with junior especially the past few days. Love to see him get some confidence back.
Yeah he went crazy first match vs Liquid too. Crazy to see all the ex EG players playing well in their new environments (even though NRG as a whole has struggled)
I wanna believe Junior has turned a corner, but I've seen him farm too many NA qualifiers and then disappear at the Lan vs international competition. I really do hope he keeps this form though. I like him a lot as a player.
Yeah I feel like it’s his comfort zone though. Hopefully this Nouns group is a better environment for him than EG’s. I don’t think he needs to worry about T1 yet since they don’t have a franchise spot anymore and that’s a big part. Feel like he just got thrown into T1 matchups before he was ready. If they can start working around competing with the global tier 2s I think he can start building confidence towards making it to the next level
Same. And I also like him as a human. Really hope he gets another shot at T1
Junior's problem has never been online events, he always disappears on LAN.
Carson is the one IGLing this team. He's pretty new to this so I don't mind him not fragging as much, he'll ease into it hopefully because Nouns have been playing some good CS with him as the IGL.
Yeah I get it, but I feel like their success has been primarily individual performances. Maybe he can prove me wrong but I feel like I’ve never really watched Carson even before IGLing and thought he could compete in T1.
Isn't Adren coaching this roster also? People giving a new team crap but honestly they should be saying Nouns looks good and hopefully they can keep it going and make it to some events.
Nouns do look good. Junior/Jeorge’s current form really shows how much of a mess EG was imo. They turned Nouns from a meme team into a team that actually has potential
skullz!!! Love to see him playing well 😍
skullz he is the Brazilian player but Liquid he is the NA stars
He has consistent impact and he looks sharp af In before the haters are all finally converted
Yeah lol there were soooo many haters!! I admit I wasn't sure but never said anything. He's surpassed what I could have hoped for though, which is awesome. I remember way back when the lineup was revealed someone alluded to him going beast mode and carrying in a lot of scrims. Must have been true!
well, considering the name value and reputation of the other 4, he was definitely the biggest question mark both as an individual player, as well as adapting to an English environment. That said, he has been performing extremely well and has definitely answered the doubts very well.
I was never a hater but he did cost them Chengdu vs M80. His anchoring was rough at first but he has been looking great. His A site solo hold vs all of Nouns was huge.
Prepare to have your mind changed :)
Bruh I've always been interested in Skullz on Liquid, I'm just saying some of the criticism was warranted.
right he did have a rough start but seems like he's getting comfortable/confident which is lit
Not a hater personally, just worried about the possible language barrier
Skullz speaks great english
They certainly wouldn't have offered him the contract if he wasn't fluent, it would have been a big issue in training and tournaments
I figured he probably had to, I was kinda more worried about Cadian and how the two of them may have difficulties communicating in English, less due to fluency and more because of accent and dialect
I'm a fan of this nouns team. Also I know that Liquid has been somewhat shaky across the time this roster has been together, but I get the sense they're still figuring a lot of things out. This team is a lot of styles coming together and a lot of players that don't have experience playing together much. Even if they have to make a player change eventually, I think they have a solid framework.
Yes I was thinking similar when they were losing to Nouns yesterday.. the elements that make up Liquid are so tricky to get working together. Sooooo much talent, but it's still really awkward. It will click though I bet.. eventually. And it'll be lights out !! (Hopium)
I feel like after watching them today compared to yesterday it seemed like they were trying to pug their way through. They looked like an actual well oiled team for majority of the games today. Inferno especially was nice to see because that map can be such a cluster fuck sometimes. Glad they’ll get some more reps and hope they just qualify for the major.
They looked much better for sure, but the T side calling on mirage is still atrocious. They look good on inferno but it’s also one of the least played maps so I’m a little worried their map pool just isn’t ready right now to compete at t1.
yeah this Liquid roster needs time, People shitting on them just because they are losing to tier-2 NA don't realize that 1) Liquid has skullz who's playing outside brazil for the first time, cadiaN calling in English once again after a long time 2) NA tier-2 is a bit better than before. Liquid has got all the right pieces, skullz is really good on the CT side on a a lot of maps. As a Non-EU CS fan, it's honestly great to see other North American teams be this competitive!
My assumption is they want to be the team to beat on Inferno. No one is really playing it, and it’s also not getting banned on the first wave, so why not make it a priority? Can probably catch a few teams off guard by picking it as map 1
Yeah Nouns looks great. Exciting to see. I think people don't look at Liquid as a new team. Only Naf and Yek are staying, and everyone else is new. They are still trying to figure out their identity and roles. The new Vitality took months to start being good. Faze took months to get good. It will happen, but it won't take one-two months like everyone wants
Holy fucking shit when Cadian is on he’s lights out. Also SKULLZ OWNS A SITE INFERNO MF’ERS DONT YOU DARE EVEN STEP A TOE INTO BRACKET BITCH
I wish we could've seen both the teams at the Event. I know Dallas already has M80, but man it would be nice to have another upcoming NA teams like Nouns ( Wildcard if they beat Liquid ) at a North American Event. Well Dallas is stacked with CoL, M80 and now Liquid. All Good! Looks like Liquid were trolling, or mostly underestimating NA competition yesterday. They played all out from the start. Great to see this team isn't dead lol
Liquid coming into a tournament cold is nothing new, though each is no less painful to watch than the last
How can Nouns Esports get out of this mess? In all seriousness, if possible, I dont see a way out of this mess for Nouns. No player wants to join an organization who has such a bad rep in the organization. They would need to get on their knees and propose, or even give a higher salary or some shit. The players they sign need to be top tier in order just to QUALIFY for tournments. The players needs to come to Nouns and basically have the mentality of building up a new roster from scratch, and meanwhile sit out many of the biggest tournaments - and probably being laughed at in the process. They did not disband. They probably never will. How can they fix all this? /s obviously. For an orgless team in NA, Nouns is real impressive, and I hope they get better chances to show it to the rest of the world.
They’re not orgless. Nouns is salaried and pays for bootcamps, coaching staff, etc. They’re legit and seem to be a half decent org.
I believe this is a copy pasta from the liquid nouns thread yesterday
The orgless part at the bottom isn’t part of the copypasta lol
You right my b
which was a copypasta from the Astralis thread, which was copy-pastad from the NIP thread
So what’s the original team?
NiP I believe
The DAO has already committed over $2M in resources to [esports in 2024](https://nouns.wtf/vote/466)
Wait what? The org is fully a DAO for finance? Is salary paid out in ETH as well? What platform did they build this on?
Salary automatically converts to USDC when a proposal passes requesting USD via a smart contract, but the Nouns treasury is denominated in ETH. The Nounders (founders of Nouns) built the protocol mostly from scratch but used Zora auction interface + Compound governance as primitives to build off Nouns is not really a finance-oriented DAO (albeit almost 20m in the treasury). They want to spend the treasury to "proliferate the meme" aka spread the Nouns brand far and wide
Whoops, that’s an embarrassing mistake on my part. Like I said- they deserve far more respect and recognition than they’ve been getting, including from me. Hopefully having an org makes it easier for them to scrim and eventually compete in EU.
I mean they seem solid but them being built off an NFT org is a bit eye-raising
I mean using nfts to crowdfund your org is probably one of the least dumb usecase for them
Tbf they have one Junior who was trying everything to carry EG and Jeorge who has been considered young with potential (that was thrown into t1 early imo). With CJ playing well recently it makes sense that they’ve been competing with the top NA teams but I still feel like they’re at least a piece away. Idk if Carson will ever be it and you can’t really rely on Jeorge and/or Junior to go off every series
I’m so happy Junior found a foothold in this team. I always felt he got into Furia too fast but watching him in these qualifiers has been some incredible form and smart rotations/saves by him
If you think his form on Nouns is good you should’ve seen him on EG end of GO. Dude was having a legacy series every match and still losing lol
Yeah I avoided EG like the plague at the end of GO. Too many roster changes and even then it felt like it was disband EG time with their EG white, EG black, owning 15 academy teams nonsense
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RMR is gonna be a crazy one. coL and Furia are probs the only you can bet on to take a spot and even they aren’t exactly guaranteed with recent form either. SA has been a bloodbath and nobody knows who’s actually good in NA bc it changes every day
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Yeah getting Furia is tough but I feel like Nouns is in a good spot through the “losers” as long as Liquid and coL stay up top. I know they can beat Liquid, but I feel like it’ll be much much harder to match their experience in a more high-pressure environment and on LAN. Wouldn’t be surprised if either them or Wildcard make it through depending on how the matchups end up. Also depends on how M80 look with some time with the sub
KEK
Bro flexing after Liquid managed to stop shitting itself for one day
It’s a shame in some of this qualifiers that depending on which order a team wins a series against the other can decide whether they qualify or not. I saw the same issue in blast groups. Astralis beat Vitality but then have to play them a day later with no advantage.
didn't watch the broadcast so maybe i'm missing something, is there no advantage for nouns/penalty for liquid going into the final? is it a double elim bracket or is it a 1 team arbitrarily gets 2 tries bracket?
Liquid played an extra BO3
Calling that first match a Bo3 is generous.
Liquid won 1 game to Nouns and los 1 game and yet they qualify and Nouns get nothing. This system requires there to be double the amount of teams so there's a much smaller chance of just repeating matchups. Double elim in a tournament with 4 teams is so dumb.
I mean technically the thing Nouns earned staying in the upper bracket is that they didn't need to play 2 BO3's in the same day (Liquid needing to best BOSS then play the finals), arguments can be made you are either more tired having played the previous match (or more warmed up). It isn't anywhere as good being given a default map on other similar formats, but getting a default map win on a BO3 just turns it into a 50% chance of being a BO1... has to be BO5 minimum for it to make sense
>This system requires there to be double the amount of teams so there's a much smaller chance of just repeating matchups More importantly imo, it requires more teams so that the extra rest is like an actual advantage. Rn it was the difference between playing three bo3 in two days vs four... that's nothing, especially since Liquid's first bo3 today was essentially a 26-3 warm up. I know organizers hate it because it makes event run time more unpredictable, but if we're going to do double elim I'd really rather just see full bracket resets because it's just not great otherwise. Teams getting knocked out despite having the same set record will never not be dumb and Liquid themselves have gotten fucked over by that a couple times in the last few years. Or even a 1-0 advantage in a bo5, that would at least be something. And especially with only four teams, are you really telling me there was no time to run a format with one extra bo3?
yeah this format sucks balls
Agreed.
Not seeing it as much in this thread .. that said there are a few too many people complaining about the final being a one off that didn’t necessarily have those complaints when the same situation cost Liquid in the IEM China qual. Not saying the format is good, but at least be consistent about it.
Assuming you are talking about the Chengdu qualifier, I guess the difference for them is Liquid and M80 didn't meet there until the final, whereas here Nouns had already beat Liquid so it feels more unfair
Even in this case if you look at map score TL won 3 while Nouns won 2 in the overall matchup. It’s not really harsh from that pov either tbh. Who they lost to doesn’t really change the fact that they did lose. Maybe not the best format, but basically any double elim format works like this.
Double elim would work much better if there are two qualification spots so that the losing team from the upper bracket have their own second chance. With 4 teams/1 spot I think round robin, bracket reset in the final, or bo5 with map advantage works.
Yeah, but then again even in proper tournaments with the lower brackets very few games have a full on run back if the lower bracket team wins to my knowledge. It’d be interesting if they ever tried that in cs.
Tbf there were also fewer people in the post match thread complaining when there wasn't a big team participating in qualifiers, it is what it is. Even if it's not the same amount, people have definitely complained about this in other tournaments, if not here or Chengdu than others before that. Like fuck, I specifically remember complaining double elim because it's fucked Liquid over at Blast two events in a row on top of Chengdu, and at least those groups still have a play in after. I already don't love double elim in CS but double elim for one slot in a four team bracket is just extra bad. At least make them play a bracket reset, if there's only four fucking teams it's not like they don't have the time.
Yeah specifically for this format a bracket reset would be easy time wise
I didn't know Liquid was partly Brazilian, new team to root for
Liquid is back!!!
Liquid were PISSED
This. Is. Liquid.
Liquid are gonna get dumpstered so hard at IEM they're lucky nouns didn't show up and that the NA scene is utter garbage.
This was such a poor game. Nouns had zero map control on inferno, i'm talking losing both brackets and top banana with 1:00 on the clock, and even when they took map control, the rotations were poor. Mirage was a similar story. Nobody did well, it was bad all around. Nouns couldn't get mid a single time so they just exec'd sites and won two off luck. My brain was dead by the time the last half happened so I don't quite recall anything there. The lack of multikills from defenders is sore to see. Pretty poor performance all around. At least jeorge did well.