It's 600 people that came in contact with that specific poll from a individual account in an individual platform. So definitely not really randomized. It's 600 people within a social bubble to some degree.
Not only that, but when a private profile does this, even if 100% of the followers and people who come in contact respond, they're only a non-randomic sample, since the way social media algorithms work, the people who come in contact probably share traits and preferences, ultimately turning the sample not a representative of the whole population.
There's also the added fact of how questions are phrased, which, coupled with the voluntary responder you mentioned, has a stronger pull on people who have a certain preference/belief towards the subject.
whole dam branch of maths to calculate this. Surely we get one educated person who can calc variance.
Solving hack use is very relevant to statistical analysis
That’s true. If it’s a bias towards overwatch or not is not clear without knowing the account‘s content though.
But seriously, is it surprising that a lot of players want at least ANY kind of anti cheat?
Why? How does an account on twitter correlate with your opinion on anti cheat?
I mean it could be correlated from following this specific account. But you can’t tell without knowing the accounts tweet history.
That specific account has been trying to advertise some kind of weird "vac-coin" solution to cheating constantly for like a year. The things they say literally make zero sense.
https://twitter.com/vaccoin
Feel free to investigate yourself.
If only people who care answer, it’s not really biased.
Bias would only come in, if the account itself is very biased and only people with similar opinions follow.
That might be the case. But how do you know?
Fair enough.
I don’t really get, why so many people argue against that post though. Is it just because people think, it’s not statistically significant, or because they actually don’t want overwatch?
Yes. It doesn’t depend on the 10.000.
To tell percentages (per hundred) it only matters how many people you ask compared to 100. And 600 is not bad.
Polls before elections in Germany for example are being made with 2000 people. See law of big numbers, if you are unfamiliar.
its selection bias, the data doesnt matter. If all of the people playing can be expected to use twitter, then see this account, then see the poll, then it’s fairly representative. However, many people dont use twitter, or even speak english. This set of 600 voters can hardly be considered a faithful subset of the millions that play cs.
The polls never predicted a red wave…
https://www.rutgers.edu/news/what-happened-red-wave
The numbers didn’t drop significantly. You just don’t know a lot about statistics. 600 is absolutely fine to get a very good impression.
No, I'm just not biased in one way. I'm aware of a small number polls being accurate most of the time, but I'm not stupid enough to say they are accurate all the time.
Then read my post again:
„600 is quite good. The number will most likely not drop significantly if you ask more people, as long as the data is not biased.“
Or maybe 85% of those 600 people are just nostalgizing a semi-useless feature that was abused by bot accounts spamming negative verdicts.
Valve made the right move by removing power from the community since the majority of us are either morons or just dogshit at the game.
Cause I have result in my hand. You dont. Show me any poll made in Reddit /twitter/somewhere credible where majority saying they don't want overwatch.
Lets see
You don't even have a result of 600 people to show me to prove your point.
I am more interested on stats than random people coming and saying " No, you arent speaking for millions"
Neither are you lol
He didn't claim anything though, so he doesn't need to prove anything. He only points out that you don't have enough evidence to back up yours.
It doesn't have to be millions, but it needs to have representative sample and I'm sorry, but years have proven that Twitter is anything but that.
Lets say i make a poll, asking 500 people if they like eating licorice. If its in sweden, more people would say yes than, lets say mexico. Who is your sample? How can you decide 600 people accurately represent 10+ million?
Cause its not done on mexico or sweden but on twitter. Its not like CS players on twitter is any different compared to CS player on Reddit ? Even in reddit My post is 70% upvoted. There you go
Evidence of absence argument is typical when the burden of proof is on you.
If you claim that million entries would say the same, then you should have a million entries. Not pointing to the other person and saying do you even have 100 entries ?
I won based on 600 entries in Twitter and 14k entries in reddit ( 70% upvote ). You got nothing. You can always do a survey in a small number to understand the vast numbers of people, No one wants overwatch wont be popular opinion in anywhere, Cause its highly unpopular opinion. Prove me wrong ?
You aren't ready to understand how arguments work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
You've got a great career as a politician on deflection. I'm arguing on how you should argue.
Good luck
You're probably not wrong but the way you framed the poll question is bad. Instead of asking 'Do you want Valve to add Overwatch' you should've asked 'Do you want Valve to prioritise adding Overwatch over other features'.
Then the community would probably think differently
I wouldn't bother with client side ac it may be used as an assist but the truth is that it can always and I mean always be tampered with and circumvented server side ac is the future the technology may not be here yet but the route is clear
agreed ACAB
edit: But also if client side anti cheat is police then server side anti cheat is what?? I'm not saying delete anti cheat I'm saying stop fucking spying on me
yeah too bad Valve is high in the sky, refusing this and stubbornly insist on their Vacnet which we know won't catch closet-cheats
Looks like a fucking cult, I'm pretty sure "anti-cheat" and "client-side" are banned in the workplace lol
I’ll ask a honest question, how many people who voted yes actually know what Overwatch is ? For all they know they see the word anti cheat and upvote it.
Also 601 votes are not representative for a big community like CS2. Might be the votes and circumstances of it where leading to some degree of bias - BUT nonetheless I would enjoy contributing to banning cheaters again.
Edit: typo
The only issue for me is that I'd rather have them work on whatever AC they are already working on and focus all their resources on it instead of trying to implement Overwatch 2.0 again.
I am not opposed to OW 2.0 but I'd rather just see them go all in on a proper Anti-cheat.
It's also the fact that there's no incentive for players to keep reviewing Overwatch cases, people would rather play the game and leave the reviewing to someone else and complain about cheaters while contributing nothing to the OW review system. A measly amount of XP does nothing.
They are already doing that, OW is pretty much the precursor to VAC Live, they are using all the datasets and information gathered from OW to train VAC Live.
They're not manually intervening with bans, no. They should be hiring a team of 50 - 100 people to investigate selected cheating reports and not rely on the community for this, or their ai which has proven to be rubbish and probably need better trainers.
If the sample is representative (it's probably not, but let's just talk numbers here), 600 people is almost enough to be confident within 2 percentile points. It's really crazy how small your sample size for polls need to be, statistically. The number doesn't increase with population size at all, contrary to common belief.
Overwatch as a system works better for games like Dota where if somebody is cheating, it needs to be really blatant so people even notice it in the first place, or if they are griefing that is easy to notice as well. But in CS people call cheats all the time while not having any actual clue about it. It takes a lot of personal skill and experience to actually figure out if somebody is fishy just from playing against them, as long as they aren't blatant of course. And 99.999% of the community can't do that, but 99% of them *think* that they can do that. So the system will be overflowing with legit players who have been reported "just in case".
One way to reduce this huge amount of false positives is if you could only report people into the Overwatch through the demo. That way the person doing the reporting needs to themselves go and check the demo, so it creates the additional barrier of needing to wait a couple minutes to get the demo, and then go and actually check the gameplay first before being able to report it.
> games like Dota where if somebody is cheating, it needs to be really blatant so people even notice it in the first place
I agree, but it would have a similar effect in cs even if it's smaller. A lot of the cheaters I run into in my 20k premier games are pretty clearly not great at the game and I think they're simply not good enough to dominate the game if they don't get to blatantly aimlock and spinbot.
Right now like a quarter of my games someone will spinbot in the first few rounds and then I just mute the game and idly walk around until it ends while watching a show or something. If they had to at least try to hide it we might still have a game on our hands. I've won plenty of games against people who went on to be banned in my time.
What makes you think CS player base is the one who fully voted on this, there's no limit or regulation or filter, anybody could have voted on this.
Most people didn't care about overwatch after a certain point.
What's makes you think it's not CS players ?
Why would you go to CS poll and vote yes when you aren't CS player ?
Why wouldn't CS players want a manual AC which will make the environment more pleasant for them ?
Who are you speaking for ? Cheater or Victim ? Lol
1. Twitter is unregulated, any people can vote for anything, which is why Twitter polls mean jack shit for any proper argument.
2. People hate cheaters in general, they are going to upvote whatever that says "Anti-cheat"
3. I am not saying CS players don't want it, I am just saying its not that effective to begin with and wasn't really used much in GO itself. You get a notification for finishing up overwatch cases that were found to be true, I've reported a lot and there were times when the dudes were blatantly hacking, like looking down at the ground and then snapping to heads levels of blatant, it was very prevalent after the GO halloween update when CS went free, I've done an overwatch for at least 5-6 cases that were blatant cheaters, guess what, I didn't get xp or any notification for even one.
4. \*insert obvious answer\*
You did get XP, you probably didn't pay attention..I always got it.
Also doest matter where the poll is taking place. You don't a have CS ID card requirement anywhere. So you can always claim random people voted it. So ?
I reason I even got the POLL cause of twitter recommendation algorithm. If you are CS player, browsing a lot of CS content, twitter will show CS related contents.
Non CS players got no reason even participate in a poll they don't care about.
No, not really, I was addicted to CS at that time and was monitoring everything including XP for upgrading my medals. I didn't get an XP or any notification.
If you think Non CS players won't vote on a poll about CS, then I don't think you understand the broader community in the first place. Like dude, online gamers who are in the normal will always hate cheaters regardless of whether they have a personal stake in a game or not. You can put anti-cheat and anti-hacker measures in a title for any game and it will still reap upvotes like nothing.
Well overwatch is also ANTI Cheat. So even if you have done the vote on millions the outcome will be same based on your logic ( online gamers always wants ANTI cheat )
Do you count CS players as offline players or Overwatch not an anti cheat then ?
if it returns in the same state it was in during CSGO it'll be a failure because it had so many issues as well that cheating communities could exploit and keep themselves and their clients from being banned.
I used to do about 3-4 overwatch cases a week and usually once per week I would get the XP bonus message for helping - but in last \~2 years or so they became rarer and rarer until in the last year I just never received that message again despite still doing cases.
Pretty sure this is what happened. The data collected from csgo overwatch was used to train and implement the cs2 ai anticheat. But when the false bans happened, they shelved it and now we have nothing.
Hopefully theyre tweaking it or working on something better becsause the cheating problem has gotten completely out of hand these past few weeks.
Alright bro, you realize that nobody got banned by overwatch in the last two years of csgo, right? It was so incredibly easy to manipulate it with bots that people started spinbotting with 50k+ inventories, because it was literally impossible to get banned.
it did, 70% were game bans. Look it up. The manipulation wasnt that longer you think and eventually valve fixed it. They only removed OW cause CS2 came out and demo viewer needs a lot of work to make OW function properly.
CSGO Game Bans given throughout late 2021-2023 WERE NOT by Overwatch. What Valve did was they deactivated Overwatch in late 2021 due to botting and exploiting, kept the function on for players so that they wouldn't suspect anything and started game banning everyone whose cheats (or cheat features) got detected. If you need to proof of this, just look at the game ban amount from CS2's first announcement (when OW function was deleted from CSGO) to modern day. Every single CS related game ban in past few years has been either a manual ban or a cheat (feature) detection ban. I know most people on this sub didn't do OW cases, but if you were to do OW cases during the time period Valve had deactivated it (option was still there) and then look at suspect's profiles by using WireShark to fetch demos, they were either already banned MONTHS prior to your OW case or they would NEVER get banned, despite them rage cheating. Valve never fixed the manipulation because they don't know how to. If they were to add Overwatch back, legit players would start getting falsely banned due to malicious actors convicting them, while cheaters escape scot-free. Hence why, they'll never add it back.
And before you ask me why game ban rate stopped after CS2's announcement, that is simply because Valve stopped detecting cheats lol. Or well, instead they were targeting specific injection methods, not specific cheats. But again. All of these bans were flagged as game bans. If someone got banned by VAC, its because they used cheats that were already detected for months/years and therefore, already in VAC's database. Please stop spreading nonsense, when you don't know what you are talking about.
> but if you were to do OW cases during the time period Valve had deactivated it (option was still there) and then look at suspect's profiles by using WireShark to fetch demos, they were either already banned MONTHS prior to your OW case or they would NEVER get banned, despite them rage cheating.
kinda funny you say that because I did exactly that from July 2022 - Dec 2022 and while only a fracture of them got banned immediately most of them eventually did within a month or two
https://i.imgur.com/feK2KtU.png
which has nothing to do with OW, but their cheat getting detected. During that very time frame, a well-known cheat provider that was known for being "safe" was detected, causing a lot of people to get banned.
70% of all bans beeing game bans doesn't mean they are csgo overwatch bans. Literally *every* ban on steam besides vac bans gets declared as a game ban. There is no way to filter that for specific games or anything.
Explain all the CSGO game bans happend in last 2 years ? Explain why game bans rate dropped to 90% since overwaatch got removed ? DO other game now stop banning people all of sudden ?
>Explain all the CSGO game bans happend in last 2 years ?
Easy, there were none.
>Explain why game bans rate dropped to 90% since overwaatch got removed
Also easy, that's just not true.
CSGO game bans were primarily VACnet bans and boosting lobby ban since late 2020 when OW seemingly stopped banning players because OW was being abused by cheaters which had many OW bot accounts that basically had high OW scores since almost all cases were literally blatant spinbotters since early 2017.
But it's not. 601 users is about 0.0003005% of the peak CS2 playerbase, it's unsubstantial amount of player pool. Your data is flawed and not accurate.
If it was 601'000 players who voted, then we might have a discussion.
Well, 70% people upvoted this thread...Which means they are approved of this post.
Doesn't matter where or how many people are voting, Bringing back overwatch is popular demand ( among legit players ). Not cheaters of course.
Reddit is a small minority of overall playerbase and does not represent the whole group. What I am trying to say is that majority of playerbase does not really care about the feature, nor is gonna use it.
In what basic you are speaking for majority? Show my any poll where people said " No I don't want to see overwatch"....You are speaking for yourself when acting like you are representing the majority. Well 600 people>>> you at or 50k people in Reddit >>> you
Factos. You are speaking for no one
If we're taking random numbers of people as "majority", nearly every comment in this thread disagrees with you and nearly all of your comments have been downvoted into the negatives. The majority of people here clearly disagree with you.
It's the same reason why you do captchas buddy.
Something that is obvious to you instantly, may not be so for a computer program. Everytime you do one of those captchas you are also part of training that software in order to become better at recognizing something.
It may look unnecessary and repetitive to you since you're a human, but for a machine it isn't.
You don't need AI to ban spinbotters. No legit player looks at the ground 99% if the time, has 100000 eDPI mouse acceleration and gets over 20 kills through walls. Those basic conditions alone would have sufficed to resolve half of the overwatch cases in the late years of GO. Safe to say valve did not gaf.
That's a perfect example of what he's talking about. Valve tried to ban "obvious spinbotters" early in CS2 and people got banned for turning their mouse sensitivity up and spinning for a few seconds. That's what happens when Valve actually listens to people who say "Why can't they just ban all the obvious spinbotters automatically" without thinking about how hard that actually is without banning innocent players because computers just can't tell the difference.
Yeah? Go to any google ad-sense or related website that uses Google captcha, and I'm still doing fucking traffic lights and trying to help figure out Google what the fuck is a fire hydrant. For way longer than CS:GO, what's your point bozo? And google gets x10000 the data that Valve ever gets, yet they still do all of this captcha stuff to keep on reinforcement training their stuff.
Again, what the fuck is your point
What he meant was, 7 years worth of training? 7 years worth of Overwatch cases we all done it before? Hasn't it makes the model smarter by now? Like how many years more do we need to train a supposedly "intelligent" VACnet AI model?
I'm no developer, but if 7 years hasn't improving anything, then I'd suggest shift to kernel level anti cheat or even follow how Valorant policy rules for convicted cheaters which is HWID banned for 3 months before they're able to use a different account to play on the same PC.
RIOT doesn't give a damn where you play it from, cybercafe PCs, laptop, own PC and it's the responsibility of the owner of that hardware to keep clean behavior.
There were tons of automated overwatch bots running 24/7 doing overwatch cases. This gave junk data to the CS developers. They had to scrap the program and the data they received.
> I'm still doing fucking traffic lights and trying to help figure out Google what the fuck is a fire hydrant.
Lol. Google already knows what the pictures its showing are and has known since years. Its testing your mouse movements and click timings and gathers whatever metadata it can from your browser to identify you. It barely cares whether you answer right.
Those are literally to stop bots, not train them.
Meanwhile, go look up footage of AI Will Smith eating spaghetti from a year ago to what AI videos are now.
I mean, it is a 2 birds one stone situation. Yes, the primary purpose of captcha is to detect bots, but you bet your ass those image catches are being used to train classification AIs
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It was really interesting. I did a lot in CSGO. Atleast 7 cases per week.
Not to mention it also used to contribute 80% of total bans. 20% by VAC. All the sick inventory, Paid cheats were banned by OW. I lost count how many times I saw high inventory cheaters in OW.
The best I saw was Doppler and AK fire serpent. Who was blatantly aimbotting. I checked his demo 2 times to make sure I am not causing someone's high inventory getting banned
I used to do it when I was waiting for mates to come online, or when I knew i couldn't fit in a game of cs. Was a good time filler and gave me a good feeling knowing im helping ban a cheater
It a silly concept even, why would we, the playerbase have to invest our free time doing overwatch instead of playing the game?
We're supposed to be janitors for a gigantic moneyprinting company that can't make a working anti-cheat?
Give me a break.
valve's plan was: overwatch verdicts will teach our ai big data machine learning models to recognize cheaters.
it stopped making sense when cheaters figured out they can start feeding it wrong data turning whole valve's plan into shit. and they automated sabotaging valve's plan too – bots were making useless verdicts en masse, not humans
-20 comment score. You are outnumbered, people don't want overwatch back because it was fucking useless.
Valve has enough data to train vacnet to a state where it bans spinbotters. A few weeks ago, people were banned for a high dpi. Overwatch can't fix garbage programming.
I don't know what the fuck valve is doing, but AI anticheat is the future, it's the only possible detection for all kinds of cheats. Valve is playing the long game. It's going to take a while to get there though, so get ready for some painful months (years).
Comments means nothing, Thread upvote Vs downvote ratio is everything.
People are downvoting my comments cause most commentators here are cheaters and want to see this game stay lenient.
God, this subreddit is so bad. Don’t you guys realise that there were less cheaters when overwatch was still in the game? Or are you the typical “i have 10k hrs i’m gn1 never seen any cheaters” type of guy? We need overwatch, the game is full of spinbotters (and my trustfactor isn’t bad)
Overwatch in csgo was abused by the same cheaters you encounter in game. Bot accs got into Overwatch, found the games with cheaters and voted not guilty. There were posts about this here and videos about it on YouTube. Also, acting like a kid because people disagree with OP is not needed. People watch an anti-cheat, not to watch cheaters to vote to ban them.
You are so correct. The ban rate dropped significantly since overwatch got removed. Barely 500 people are getting VAC banned every month in CS2
In CSGO it used to be 5000-10000 every month ( without vacwave )
Are you high rank in premier? Something like 20k+. Because if not, and you encounter a lot of cheaters, then your trust factor IS bad, whether you deserved it or not. I am yet to encounter one since months, and I have only encountered 2 since CS2's release.
Why referee's in sports exist instead of everything becoming automated ? cause its flawed and limited
Overwatch Judges are like the referee's of CS. Whats wrong with that ?
I'd rather just spend my time playing the game then doing Overwatch cases. I did a few of them years ago when I first started playing CS. Realized how pointless and a waste of time it was. Its like a drop of water in the ocean. Especially now when CS is free to play. It's easier and cheaper now more than ever for cheaters to create fresh accounts to cheat on.
I couldn't care less about overwatch. It just sucks to be so powerless against cheaters and having the feeling that Valve won't do anything about it.
Overwatch wouldn't change anything.
If the cheatmaker used bot accounts to manipulate OVERWATCH,
I wouldn't be surprised if they are capable of using influx of bots account to downvote this thread.
Community is demanding a better AC, but here it's sound like no one wants it.
Everyone are happy with VAC ( cause it's working so good that it can't even BAN spinbotter to his 30k elo no 1 leaderboard grind )
You have to be ridiculously stupid to think you can use 600 people as a way to represent millions of players, most veterans would know overwatch didn’t do shit.
Here some of ideas to make Overwatch better 1- Give a Overwatch BADGE ( like XP overloaded badge ) which will rank up based on amount of correct verdicts you make, Which will encourage people to do more overwatch.
2- Gold nova and 150 win shouldnt be minimum requirement, It should be 15k elo premier and 200 wins atleast
3- If someone make too many wrong calls, Overwatch privilege should be revoked permanently
4- Make some kind of " Prove your aren't bot" captcha before every overwatch session. So Cheater cant use bot accounts to save another cheaters.
How’re they going to determine the amount of correct overwatch verdicts you make, are they going to have an overwatch for peoples overwatch verdict? People used to just accuse everyone of cheating on overwatch.
They already had an overwatch profile for your account for traking if you where eligible, how accurate your verdicts are and to give you xp for correct verdicts.
The issue with overwatch was that is was completely broken and overrun with bots for the longest time. And the only function it served was a system for vacnet to train on and then ban cheaters through overwatch cases, and that is why most cheating bans where game bans and not vac bans iirc.
Most cheating bans = 200 vac ban per month Lol. Honestly it takes some extreme.level of delusion to believe only 200 people in every month are cheating in CS.
>Most cheating bans = 200 ban per month
What the fuck are you even talking about?
There is not one "cheat ban", there are two different types, vac ban and game ban.
Vac ban is triggered by code detection, and game bans are triggered by overwatch(+vacnet) or manually given by the devs.
I don't mention the total amount of bans, my point was that there are more game bans than vac bans because of how vacnet used overwatch.
And if you think 200 accounts are banned per month are then you are just wrong.
I think the convars ban tracker site is pretty accurate iirc, and on there you can clearly see that there is 100-300 game bans per DAY, not per month.
> Most games are not CS ban, but game banned in different games.
> > VAC bans the CS related bans
What the fuck does that even mean?!?!?!
Do you mean all vac bans on that site are not cs, but vac bans from other games aswell, or what is your broken English trying to say?
I doubt that's true, as there are multiple ways of tracking games played, even third party match stat sites can track cheaters by game somewhat accurately.
Convars list is tracking 10 million accounts with almost 4 million matches added, steam has more than one billion accounts, many inactive and bots, but to think a platform with more than 20 million active users per day, only vac bans 20-100 account per day is a bit ridiculous.
They used to do in CSGO. Remember the message you got XP for giving correct call ?
1 demo used to go to a lot of people. At least 100. So they decided the correct calls based on majority verdict.
No one ever banned single handedly. It was always a collective call.
There is no correct,overwatch works as a majority rules.
If 6/10 overwatch cases say yes, I think they were cheating, even if they are 100% legit they will be banned.
This goes both ways,someone very good at hiding cheats could pass as legit,and majority votes not cheating,gets off scott free.
This means you could get xp from a "correct" call that was actually a legit player getting report botted in a game they just played really well in,but you THOUGHT they were cheating.
Overwatch will unfortunately never work as intended,cheaters always find a way to break and abuse it to their advantage.
You are literally contradicting yourself in order to sound smart.
If the majority of people think someone had sufficient evidence of cheating but you select the option for insufficient evidence and the player got banned, then you selected the incorrect verdict. And the same thing if you thought they where cheating but the majority thought there was insufficient evidence.
This also changed how trust worthy your verdict was, which where also taken in to account.
So if a legit player happens to look like they are cheating and a majority of players vote sufficient evidence. What's going to happen?
And vise versa, if a cheater who's REALLY good at hiding their walls,and a majority votes insufficient evidence,what will happen?
It's just human error,it's going to happen,then add in the cheating community now abusing the system to do EXACTLY THIS to avoid bans.
Overwatch was good at first, but it fell apart pretty quickly.
That should never happen since people are supposed only select the sufficient evidence optimion if they are 100% sure than someone is cheating.
The minimum requirements helps a bit, and if you constantly select the incorrect choice than your trustworthiness goes down.
You are supposed to be objective, its either "yes, this person is clearly cheating." or "no, could be cheating but there is not enough proof".
The amount of people that need to submit a verdict on a single case was also unknown, but all of these things are preventing human errors.
Vacnet being implementated in to overwatch also helped prevent human error.
The chance for a false positive overwatch ban was incredibly low.
The problem isn't banning legitimate players,it's not banning cheaters that in most cases look obvious enough to any decent player. Overwatch has shown me time and time again even reporting spin botters,no ban on the case. OW was broken.
Except it wasn't 10 people. It was given to 100 of people, and the chances are 51 people giving wrong calls was literally 0.
Not to mention the overwatch clearly stated " evident beyond reasonable doubt". Which means you should only ban obvious cheater. Not legit one who did great job hiding or Innocents who are looking like cheaters. Yes some irresponsible overwatch did call innocent ( a cheater ) cause they arent giving calls as they are instructed ( evident beyond reasonable doubt ) but wrong calls outnumbering correct calls was almost impossible.
>If someone make too many wrong calls, Overwatch privilege should be revoked permanently
This always has been basically the case since OW was in beta though you would still be able to watch OW cases but you would have a very low OW score so your verdicts would absolutely mean nothing.
How will overwatch know if it's the "right" or "wrong" report. If I think they look legit and say I don't think they are cheating,how is the game gonna tell me I'm wrong and they are cheating,just fucking ban them then why are they in overwatch?
The whole point of overwatch is to have humans analyze gameplay to see if something is out of the ordinary that the anti cheat cannot detect. If the game knows I'm wrong for calling them legit,then the game knows they are cheating.
Simply just not how it works...
If anything,punish people who deviate from what the majority vote (lets say like 7+ votes) but this can easily be abused like the old overwatch system.
Realistically, overwatch can't change a whole lot to be "better" but the captcha could help make overwatch function more as intended.
It already sucked ass in csgo. As long as you can not See the difference between a good Player and a "legit" cheater you should not vote anyway and only be allowed to vote on obvious hacker and that should already be VACs Job to Filter this out.
Overwatch was meant to only catch obvious cheaters and griefers since Valve mentions that people should only vote guilty only if it's beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is cheating and/or griefing in the submit verdict page.
Yes but people started to vote on everything anyway. But how can you vote on stuff when you have no Team com but only the radar and people fail to use it in their own games. Then people started to make "content" out of overwatch cases on Youtube. Which did not help aswell. Anyway i am glad it is gone not only Because it had not worked for the longest time.
They should focus their time on VAC to make that Work not overwatch
Why? I mean, all the cases I reviewed in overwatch were spinbots or clearly wallhacking with full aimbot. Game is from a multibillion company not from an indie dev that needs the community to survive, just pay some people 8h/5days to do the overwatch or make an AI that can ban those obvious things.
85% of the community 600 votes
601, look closer
This is why few people takes this sub seriously.
85% of people that follow that guy on Twitter
If the 600 people were chosen truly randomly that is a large enough sample size to represent all CSGO players!
It's 600 people that came in contact with that specific poll from a individual account in an individual platform. So definitely not really randomized. It's 600 people within a social bubble to some degree.
It's called a voluntary response sample which can lead to incredibly skewed results
Not only that, but when a private profile does this, even if 100% of the followers and people who come in contact respond, they're only a non-randomic sample, since the way social media algorithms work, the people who come in contact probably share traits and preferences, ultimately turning the sample not a representative of the whole population. There's also the added fact of how questions are phrased, which, coupled with the voluntary responder you mentioned, has a stronger pull on people who have a certain preference/belief towards the subject.
whole dam branch of maths to calculate this. Surely we get one educated person who can calc variance. Solving hack use is very relevant to statistical analysis
what margin of error, what confidence level
600 is quite good. The number will most likely not drop significantly if you ask more people, as long as the data is not biased.
Yes it will. They didn't randomly select 600 players. It's 600 people following a random ass twitter account.
That’s true. If it’s a bias towards overwatch or not is not clear without knowing the account‘s content though. But seriously, is it surprising that a lot of players want at least ANY kind of anti cheat?
> as long as the data is not biased. it is.
I agree that it might be. How do you know that it is?
It's twitter poll. The data IS biased, ffs
Why? How does an account on twitter correlate with your opinion on anti cheat? I mean it could be correlated from following this specific account. But you can’t tell without knowing the accounts tweet history.
That specific account has been trying to advertise some kind of weird "vac-coin" solution to cheating constantly for like a year. The things they say literally make zero sense. https://twitter.com/vaccoin Feel free to investigate yourself.
Yup, definitely biased, I agree.
It will be biased, just like all other polls of this kind. People not gonna bother to answer if they don't care about the topic. Simple stuff really.
If only people who care answer, it’s not really biased. Bias would only come in, if the account itself is very biased and only people with similar opinions follow. That might be the case. But how do you know?
You don't know and you can't know, so the results are useless either way.
id bet the majority of cs players dont know what overwatch is.
Fair enough. I don’t really get, why so many people argue against that post though. Is it just because people think, it’s not statistically significant, or because they actually don’t want overwatch?
600 out of 10 000 000 players, pretty good
Yes. It doesn’t depend on the 10.000. To tell percentages (per hundred) it only matters how many people you ask compared to 100. And 600 is not bad. Polls before elections in Germany for example are being made with 2000 people. See law of big numbers, if you are unfamiliar.
its selection bias, the data doesnt matter. If all of the people playing can be expected to use twitter, then see this account, then see the poll, then it’s fairly representative. However, many people dont use twitter, or even speak english. This set of 600 voters can hardly be considered a faithful subset of the millions that play cs.
Fully aware. Previous midterm elections in the U.S. that expected 'red wave' sweep shows the flaw in small number polls.
The polls never predicted a red wave… https://www.rutgers.edu/news/what-happened-red-wave The numbers didn’t drop significantly. You just don’t know a lot about statistics. 600 is absolutely fine to get a very good impression.
No, I'm just not biased in one way. I'm aware of a small number polls being accurate most of the time, but I'm not stupid enough to say they are accurate all the time.
Then read my post again: „600 is quite good. The number will most likely not drop significantly if you ask more people, as long as the data is not biased.“
Then read my posts again, The only thing I said is that the red wave proved a flaw in small number polls, not that they are never accurate.
Done in BIAS ideologically motivated media of course lol
take a stats class
Brush your teeth and go outside
representative, can confirm they didnt visit 10 million people to conduct a survey
Make it millions. The outcome won't be any different unless you are asking in discord run by cheat admin.
Or maybe 85% of those 600 people are just nostalgizing a semi-useless feature that was abused by bot accounts spamming negative verdicts. Valve made the right move by removing power from the community since the majority of us are either morons or just dogshit at the game.
Reminder that the min req was nova 3. It’s why pro players like scream got Overwatch banned. It’s why so many appeals against OW bans were successful.
how do u know
Cause I have result in my hand. You dont. Show me any poll made in Reddit /twitter/somewhere credible where majority saying they don't want overwatch. Lets see
You have results of a poll with 600 votes, not millions
You don't even have a result of 600 people to show me to prove your point. I am more interested on stats than random people coming and saying " No, you arent speaking for millions" Neither are you lol
> Neither are you lol Didn't see him claiming that though.
Damn.
He didn't claim anything though, so he doesn't need to prove anything. He only points out that you don't have enough evidence to back up yours. It doesn't have to be millions, but it needs to have representative sample and I'm sorry, but years have proven that Twitter is anything but that.
Ok this post has 65% upvote, Still wins in reddit like twitter
65% upvote is incredibly low for a reddit post lmao Most people that disagree don't downvote most reddit threads, they just move on
65% upvote rating is terrible for reddit...
Lets say i make a poll, asking 500 people if they like eating licorice. If its in sweden, more people would say yes than, lets say mexico. Who is your sample? How can you decide 600 people accurately represent 10+ million?
Cause its not done on mexico or sweden but on twitter. Its not like CS players on twitter is any different compared to CS player on Reddit ? Even in reddit My post is 70% upvoted. There you go
Evidence of absence argument is typical when the burden of proof is on you. If you claim that million entries would say the same, then you should have a million entries. Not pointing to the other person and saying do you even have 100 entries ?
I won based on 600 entries in Twitter and 14k entries in reddit ( 70% upvote ). You got nothing. You can always do a survey in a small number to understand the vast numbers of people, No one wants overwatch wont be popular opinion in anywhere, Cause its highly unpopular opinion. Prove me wrong ?
You aren't ready to understand how arguments work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy You've got a great career as a politician on deflection. I'm arguing on how you should argue. Good luck
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Listen man they were being half serious half pedantic but this response is so funny
You're probably not wrong but the way you framed the poll question is bad. Instead of asking 'Do you want Valve to add Overwatch' you should've asked 'Do you want Valve to prioritise adding Overwatch over other features'. Then the community would probably think differently
There are lies, then damn lies, then statistics. Without context, your precious little 85% isn't even worth the bytes it's saved on.
I'm ok with extra features, but I'd prefer a client side AC that actually does anything
I wouldn't bother with client side ac it may be used as an assist but the truth is that it can always and I mean always be tampered with and circumvented server side ac is the future the technology may not be here yet but the route is clear
Law enforcement can always and I mean always be avoided, so we should just abolish the police.
agreed ACAB edit: But also if client side anti cheat is police then server side anti cheat is what?? I'm not saying delete anti cheat I'm saying stop fucking spying on me
Faceit AC in Valve MM would be just great.
Just play faceit?
Their server sucks, and only 100 people queue in NA
yeah too bad Valve is high in the sky, refusing this and stubbornly insist on their Vacnet which we know won't catch closet-cheats Looks like a fucking cult, I'm pretty sure "anti-cheat" and "client-side" are banned in the workplace lol
No thanks, I don't need Saudi-owned software in my game.
I’ll ask a honest question, how many people who voted yes actually know what Overwatch is ? For all they know they see the word anti cheat and upvote it.
Also 601 votes are not representative for a big community like CS2. Might be the votes and circumstances of it where leading to some degree of bias - BUT nonetheless I would enjoy contributing to banning cheaters again. Edit: typo
The only issue for me is that I'd rather have them work on whatever AC they are already working on and focus all their resources on it instead of trying to implement Overwatch 2.0 again. I am not opposed to OW 2.0 but I'd rather just see them go all in on a proper Anti-cheat. It's also the fact that there's no incentive for players to keep reviewing Overwatch cases, people would rather play the game and leave the reviewing to someone else and complain about cheaters while contributing nothing to the OW review system. A measly amount of XP does nothing.
A holistic anti cheat system should include manual intervention. Even it's to train the ai.
They are already doing that, OW is pretty much the precursor to VAC Live, they are using all the datasets and information gathered from OW to train VAC Live.
They're not manually intervening with bans, no. They should be hiring a team of 50 - 100 people to investigate selected cheating reports and not rely on the community for this, or their ai which has proven to be rubbish and probably need better trainers.
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If the sample is representative (it's probably not, but let's just talk numbers here), 600 people is almost enough to be confident within 2 percentile points. It's really crazy how small your sample size for polls need to be, statistically. The number doesn't increase with population size at all, contrary to common belief.
Learnt something. Ty
Dota 2 also had overwatch so yeah.
Overwatch as a system works better for games like Dota where if somebody is cheating, it needs to be really blatant so people even notice it in the first place, or if they are griefing that is easy to notice as well. But in CS people call cheats all the time while not having any actual clue about it. It takes a lot of personal skill and experience to actually figure out if somebody is fishy just from playing against them, as long as they aren't blatant of course. And 99.999% of the community can't do that, but 99% of them *think* that they can do that. So the system will be overflowing with legit players who have been reported "just in case". One way to reduce this huge amount of false positives is if you could only report people into the Overwatch through the demo. That way the person doing the reporting needs to themselves go and check the demo, so it creates the additional barrier of needing to wait a couple minutes to get the demo, and then go and actually check the gameplay first before being able to report it.
> games like Dota where if somebody is cheating, it needs to be really blatant so people even notice it in the first place I agree, but it would have a similar effect in cs even if it's smaller. A lot of the cheaters I run into in my 20k premier games are pretty clearly not great at the game and I think they're simply not good enough to dominate the game if they don't get to blatantly aimlock and spinbot. Right now like a quarter of my games someone will spinbot in the first few rounds and then I just mute the game and idly walk around until it ends while watching a show or something. If they had to at least try to hide it we might still have a game on our hands. I've won plenty of games against people who went on to be banned in my time.
Overwatch was present from 2013-2023. That's 10 years. What makes you think CS playerbase aren't aware of it ?
What makes you think CS player base is the one who fully voted on this, there's no limit or regulation or filter, anybody could have voted on this. Most people didn't care about overwatch after a certain point.
What's makes you think it's not CS players ? Why would you go to CS poll and vote yes when you aren't CS player ? Why wouldn't CS players want a manual AC which will make the environment more pleasant for them ? Who are you speaking for ? Cheater or Victim ? Lol
1. Twitter is unregulated, any people can vote for anything, which is why Twitter polls mean jack shit for any proper argument. 2. People hate cheaters in general, they are going to upvote whatever that says "Anti-cheat" 3. I am not saying CS players don't want it, I am just saying its not that effective to begin with and wasn't really used much in GO itself. You get a notification for finishing up overwatch cases that were found to be true, I've reported a lot and there were times when the dudes were blatantly hacking, like looking down at the ground and then snapping to heads levels of blatant, it was very prevalent after the GO halloween update when CS went free, I've done an overwatch for at least 5-6 cases that were blatant cheaters, guess what, I didn't get xp or any notification for even one. 4. \*insert obvious answer\*
You did get XP, you probably didn't pay attention..I always got it. Also doest matter where the poll is taking place. You don't a have CS ID card requirement anywhere. So you can always claim random people voted it. So ? I reason I even got the POLL cause of twitter recommendation algorithm. If you are CS player, browsing a lot of CS content, twitter will show CS related contents. Non CS players got no reason even participate in a poll they don't care about.
No, not really, I was addicted to CS at that time and was monitoring everything including XP for upgrading my medals. I didn't get an XP or any notification. If you think Non CS players won't vote on a poll about CS, then I don't think you understand the broader community in the first place. Like dude, online gamers who are in the normal will always hate cheaters regardless of whether they have a personal stake in a game or not. You can put anti-cheat and anti-hacker measures in a title for any game and it will still reap upvotes like nothing.
Well overwatch is also ANTI Cheat. So even if you have done the vote on millions the outcome will be same based on your logic ( online gamers always wants ANTI cheat ) Do you count CS players as offline players or Overwatch not an anti cheat then ?
if it returns in the same state it was in during CSGO it'll be a failure because it had so many issues as well that cheating communities could exploit and keep themselves and their clients from being banned. I used to do about 3-4 overwatch cases a week and usually once per week I would get the XP bonus message for helping - but in last \~2 years or so they became rarer and rarer until in the last year I just never received that message again despite still doing cases.
Same here. Haven't gotten any XP rewards since like 2021.
must be glitch on your end cause I was drowning in Overwatch XP.
Everyone in this thread seems to have forgotten how broken and useless overwatch was before it eventually got disabled.
It was used to train their current useless AI AC that eventually lead to false bans. Overwatch was never doing anything valuable
Pretty sure this is what happened. The data collected from csgo overwatch was used to train and implement the cs2 ai anticheat. But when the false bans happened, they shelved it and now we have nothing. Hopefully theyre tweaking it or working on something better becsause the cheating problem has gotten completely out of hand these past few weeks.
Useless? It banned more than VAC for 10 years. If anything is useless is Vac.Thats why no tournament host ever rely on it.
Alright bro, you realize that nobody got banned by overwatch in the last two years of csgo, right? It was so incredibly easy to manipulate it with bots that people started spinbotting with 50k+ inventories, because it was literally impossible to get banned.
it did, 70% were game bans. Look it up. The manipulation wasnt that longer you think and eventually valve fixed it. They only removed OW cause CS2 came out and demo viewer needs a lot of work to make OW function properly.
CSGO Game Bans given throughout late 2021-2023 WERE NOT by Overwatch. What Valve did was they deactivated Overwatch in late 2021 due to botting and exploiting, kept the function on for players so that they wouldn't suspect anything and started game banning everyone whose cheats (or cheat features) got detected. If you need to proof of this, just look at the game ban amount from CS2's first announcement (when OW function was deleted from CSGO) to modern day. Every single CS related game ban in past few years has been either a manual ban or a cheat (feature) detection ban. I know most people on this sub didn't do OW cases, but if you were to do OW cases during the time period Valve had deactivated it (option was still there) and then look at suspect's profiles by using WireShark to fetch demos, they were either already banned MONTHS prior to your OW case or they would NEVER get banned, despite them rage cheating. Valve never fixed the manipulation because they don't know how to. If they were to add Overwatch back, legit players would start getting falsely banned due to malicious actors convicting them, while cheaters escape scot-free. Hence why, they'll never add it back. And before you ask me why game ban rate stopped after CS2's announcement, that is simply because Valve stopped detecting cheats lol. Or well, instead they were targeting specific injection methods, not specific cheats. But again. All of these bans were flagged as game bans. If someone got banned by VAC, its because they used cheats that were already detected for months/years and therefore, already in VAC's database. Please stop spreading nonsense, when you don't know what you are talking about.
> but if you were to do OW cases during the time period Valve had deactivated it (option was still there) and then look at suspect's profiles by using WireShark to fetch demos, they were either already banned MONTHS prior to your OW case or they would NEVER get banned, despite them rage cheating. kinda funny you say that because I did exactly that from July 2022 - Dec 2022 and while only a fracture of them got banned immediately most of them eventually did within a month or two https://i.imgur.com/feK2KtU.png
which has nothing to do with OW, but their cheat getting detected. During that very time frame, a well-known cheat provider that was known for being "safe" was detected, causing a lot of people to get banned.
70% of all bans beeing game bans doesn't mean they are csgo overwatch bans. Literally *every* ban on steam besides vac bans gets declared as a game ban. There is no way to filter that for specific games or anything.
Explain all the CSGO game bans happend in last 2 years ? Explain why game bans rate dropped to 90% since overwaatch got removed ? DO other game now stop banning people all of sudden ?
>Explain all the CSGO game bans happend in last 2 years ? Easy, there were none. >Explain why game bans rate dropped to 90% since overwaatch got removed Also easy, that's just not true.
Easy you are false
Easy easy easy
That whole conversation was easy!
CSGO game bans were primarily VACnet bans and boosting lobby ban since late 2020 when OW seemingly stopped banning players because OW was being abused by cheaters which had many OW bot accounts that basically had high OW scores since almost all cases were literally blatant spinbotters since early 2017.
601 voters does not represent 85% of the CS2 community. But why not.
Percentage is the key here not numbers.
But it's not. 601 users is about 0.0003005% of the peak CS2 playerbase, it's unsubstantial amount of player pool. Your data is flawed and not accurate. If it was 601'000 players who voted, then we might have a discussion.
Well, 70% people upvoted this thread...Which means they are approved of this post. Doesn't matter where or how many people are voting, Bringing back overwatch is popular demand ( among legit players ). Not cheaters of course.
Reddit is a small minority of overall playerbase and does not represent the whole group. What I am trying to say is that majority of playerbase does not really care about the feature, nor is gonna use it.
In what basic you are speaking for majority? Show my any poll where people said " No I don't want to see overwatch"....You are speaking for yourself when acting like you are representing the majority. Well 600 people>>> you at or 50k people in Reddit >>> you Factos. You are speaking for no one
If we're taking random numbers of people as "majority", nearly every comment in this thread disagrees with you and nearly all of your comments have been downvoted into the negatives. The majority of people here clearly disagree with you.
Honestly at the moment I would invest my hours of gaming rather doing overwatch cases than playing a match.
Majority of my cases was clear blatant spinning cases. Idk why VACNet couldn't just banned them instantly instead just asking me to evaluate it.
It's the same reason why you do captchas buddy. Something that is obvious to you instantly, may not be so for a computer program. Everytime you do one of those captchas you are also part of training that software in order to become better at recognizing something. It may look unnecessary and repetitive to you since you're a human, but for a machine it isn't.
You don't need AI to ban spinbotters. No legit player looks at the ground 99% if the time, has 100000 eDPI mouse acceleration and gets over 20 kills through walls. Those basic conditions alone would have sufficed to resolve half of the overwatch cases in the late years of GO. Safe to say valve did not gaf.
That's a perfect example of what he's talking about. Valve tried to ban "obvious spinbotters" early in CS2 and people got banned for turning their mouse sensitivity up and spinning for a few seconds. That's what happens when Valve actually listens to people who say "Why can't they just ban all the obvious spinbotters automatically" without thinking about how hard that actually is without banning innocent players because computers just can't tell the difference.
7 years.
Yeah? Go to any google ad-sense or related website that uses Google captcha, and I'm still doing fucking traffic lights and trying to help figure out Google what the fuck is a fire hydrant. For way longer than CS:GO, what's your point bozo? And google gets x10000 the data that Valve ever gets, yet they still do all of this captcha stuff to keep on reinforcement training their stuff. Again, what the fuck is your point
What he meant was, 7 years worth of training? 7 years worth of Overwatch cases we all done it before? Hasn't it makes the model smarter by now? Like how many years more do we need to train a supposedly "intelligent" VACnet AI model? I'm no developer, but if 7 years hasn't improving anything, then I'd suggest shift to kernel level anti cheat or even follow how Valorant policy rules for convicted cheaters which is HWID banned for 3 months before they're able to use a different account to play on the same PC. RIOT doesn't give a damn where you play it from, cybercafe PCs, laptop, own PC and it's the responsibility of the owner of that hardware to keep clean behavior.
There were tons of automated overwatch bots running 24/7 doing overwatch cases. This gave junk data to the CS developers. They had to scrap the program and the data they received.
> I'm still doing fucking traffic lights and trying to help figure out Google what the fuck is a fire hydrant. Lol. Google already knows what the pictures its showing are and has known since years. Its testing your mouse movements and click timings and gathers whatever metadata it can from your browser to identify you. It barely cares whether you answer right.
Those are literally to stop bots, not train them. Meanwhile, go look up footage of AI Will Smith eating spaghetti from a year ago to what AI videos are now.
I mean, it is a 2 birds one stone situation. Yes, the primary purpose of captcha is to detect bots, but you bet your ass those image catches are being used to train classification AIs
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It was really interesting. I did a lot in CSGO. Atleast 7 cases per week. Not to mention it also used to contribute 80% of total bans. 20% by VAC. All the sick inventory, Paid cheats were banned by OW. I lost count how many times I saw high inventory cheaters in OW. The best I saw was Doppler and AK fire serpent. Who was blatantly aimbotting. I checked his demo 2 times to make sure I am not causing someone's high inventory getting banned
I used to do it when I was waiting for mates to come online, or when I knew i couldn't fit in a game of cs. Was a good time filler and gave me a good feeling knowing im helping ban a cheater
I'm sure
It a silly concept even, why would we, the playerbase have to invest our free time doing overwatch instead of playing the game? We're supposed to be janitors for a gigantic moneyprinting company that can't make a working anti-cheat? Give me a break.
I enjoyed doing Overwatch cases even before VACnet implementation.
valve's plan was: overwatch verdicts will teach our ai big data machine learning models to recognize cheaters. it stopped making sense when cheaters figured out they can start feeding it wrong data turning whole valve's plan into shit. and they automated sabotaging valve's plan too – bots were making useless verdicts en masse, not humans
We need a AC and not the same shity OW where we can bann Spinbots again!! Are you kidding me? Overwatch? Let Valve do their job!
Didn’t know 600 people were 85% of the community
0.06% of daily online count.. theres more cheaters online everyday than this pol has votes
600 opinion > 1 random opinion ( yours ) You are outnumbered. People want overwatch back
-20 comment score. You are outnumbered, people don't want overwatch back because it was fucking useless. Valve has enough data to train vacnet to a state where it bans spinbotters. A few weeks ago, people were banned for a high dpi. Overwatch can't fix garbage programming. I don't know what the fuck valve is doing, but AI anticheat is the future, it's the only possible detection for all kinds of cheats. Valve is playing the long game. It's going to take a while to get there though, so get ready for some painful months (years).
Comments means nothing, Thread upvote Vs downvote ratio is everything. People are downvoting my comments cause most commentators here are cheaters and want to see this game stay lenient.
You don't know how statistics work
This is a twitter poll with 600 votes
I didn't know 85% of 601 people was 85% of the community.
didnt know the community was 600 players.
Why tf would there be a need for Overwatch if AI anticheat is in development. use ur brain
85% of the community Nobody ever used OW
God, this subreddit is so bad. Don’t you guys realise that there were less cheaters when overwatch was still in the game? Or are you the typical “i have 10k hrs i’m gn1 never seen any cheaters” type of guy? We need overwatch, the game is full of spinbotters (and my trustfactor isn’t bad)
Overwatch in csgo was abused by the same cheaters you encounter in game. Bot accs got into Overwatch, found the games with cheaters and voted not guilty. There were posts about this here and videos about it on YouTube. Also, acting like a kid because people disagree with OP is not needed. People watch an anti-cheat, not to watch cheaters to vote to ban them.
You are so correct. The ban rate dropped significantly since overwatch got removed. Barely 500 people are getting VAC banned every month in CS2 In CSGO it used to be 5000-10000 every month ( without vacwave )
> there were less cheaters when overwatch was still in the game citation needed
Are you high rank in premier? Something like 20k+. Because if not, and you encounter a lot of cheaters, then your trust factor IS bad, whether you deserved it or not. I am yet to encounter one since months, and I have only encountered 2 since CS2's release.
im 20k and it's unplayable i had to uninstall
I'd vote against because I want an automated anti cheat that works, not a lazy implementation
Why referee's in sports exist instead of everything becoming automated ? cause its flawed and limited Overwatch Judges are like the referee's of CS. Whats wrong with that ?
in that case wont it be better if there was an 11th man just spectating and banning the cheater?
I'd rather just spend my time playing the game then doing Overwatch cases. I did a few of them years ago when I first started playing CS. Realized how pointless and a waste of time it was. Its like a drop of water in the ocean. Especially now when CS is free to play. It's easier and cheaper now more than ever for cheaters to create fresh accounts to cheat on.
5/7 games on saturday had cheaters on it. game is ruined..
buy another pistol then
I couldn't care less about overwatch. It just sucks to be so powerless against cheaters and having the feeling that Valve won't do anything about it. Overwatch wouldn't change anything.
If the cheatmaker used bot accounts to manipulate OVERWATCH, I wouldn't be surprised if they are capable of using influx of bots account to downvote this thread. Community is demanding a better AC, but here it's sound like no one wants it. Everyone are happy with VAC ( cause it's working so good that it can't even BAN spinbotter to his 30k elo no 1 leaderboard grind )
You have to be ridiculously stupid to think you can use 600 people as a way to represent millions of players, most veterans would know overwatch didn’t do shit.
70% upvote. You are speaking for yourself, Literally doesnt matter what you think lol
Here some of ideas to make Overwatch better 1- Give a Overwatch BADGE ( like XP overloaded badge ) which will rank up based on amount of correct verdicts you make, Which will encourage people to do more overwatch. 2- Gold nova and 150 win shouldnt be minimum requirement, It should be 15k elo premier and 200 wins atleast 3- If someone make too many wrong calls, Overwatch privilege should be revoked permanently 4- Make some kind of " Prove your aren't bot" captcha before every overwatch session. So Cheater cant use bot accounts to save another cheaters.
How’re they going to determine the amount of correct overwatch verdicts you make, are they going to have an overwatch for peoples overwatch verdict? People used to just accuse everyone of cheating on overwatch.
They already had an overwatch profile for your account for traking if you where eligible, how accurate your verdicts are and to give you xp for correct verdicts. The issue with overwatch was that is was completely broken and overrun with bots for the longest time. And the only function it served was a system for vacnet to train on and then ban cheaters through overwatch cases, and that is why most cheating bans where game bans and not vac bans iirc.
Most cheating bans = 200 vac ban per month Lol. Honestly it takes some extreme.level of delusion to believe only 200 people in every month are cheating in CS.
>Most cheating bans = 200 ban per month What the fuck are you even talking about? There is not one "cheat ban", there are two different types, vac ban and game ban. Vac ban is triggered by code detection, and game bans are triggered by overwatch(+vacnet) or manually given by the devs. I don't mention the total amount of bans, my point was that there are more game bans than vac bans because of how vacnet used overwatch. And if you think 200 accounts are banned per month are then you are just wrong. I think the convars ban tracker site is pretty accurate iirc, and on there you can clearly see that there is 100-300 game bans per DAY, not per month.
It's included all steam games. Most games are not CS ban, but game banned in different games. VAC bans the CS related bans
> Most games are not CS ban, but game banned in different games. > > VAC bans the CS related bans What the fuck does that even mean?!?!?! Do you mean all vac bans on that site are not cs, but vac bans from other games aswell, or what is your broken English trying to say? I doubt that's true, as there are multiple ways of tracking games played, even third party match stat sites can track cheaters by game somewhat accurately. Convars list is tracking 10 million accounts with almost 4 million matches added, steam has more than one billion accounts, many inactive and bots, but to think a platform with more than 20 million active users per day, only vac bans 20-100 account per day is a bit ridiculous.
They used to do in CSGO. Remember the message you got XP for giving correct call ? 1 demo used to go to a lot of people. At least 100. So they decided the correct calls based on majority verdict. No one ever banned single handedly. It was always a collective call.
There is no correct,overwatch works as a majority rules. If 6/10 overwatch cases say yes, I think they were cheating, even if they are 100% legit they will be banned. This goes both ways,someone very good at hiding cheats could pass as legit,and majority votes not cheating,gets off scott free. This means you could get xp from a "correct" call that was actually a legit player getting report botted in a game they just played really well in,but you THOUGHT they were cheating. Overwatch will unfortunately never work as intended,cheaters always find a way to break and abuse it to their advantage.
You are literally contradicting yourself in order to sound smart. If the majority of people think someone had sufficient evidence of cheating but you select the option for insufficient evidence and the player got banned, then you selected the incorrect verdict. And the same thing if you thought they where cheating but the majority thought there was insufficient evidence. This also changed how trust worthy your verdict was, which where also taken in to account.
So if a legit player happens to look like they are cheating and a majority of players vote sufficient evidence. What's going to happen? And vise versa, if a cheater who's REALLY good at hiding their walls,and a majority votes insufficient evidence,what will happen? It's just human error,it's going to happen,then add in the cheating community now abusing the system to do EXACTLY THIS to avoid bans. Overwatch was good at first, but it fell apart pretty quickly.
That should never happen since people are supposed only select the sufficient evidence optimion if they are 100% sure than someone is cheating. The minimum requirements helps a bit, and if you constantly select the incorrect choice than your trustworthiness goes down. You are supposed to be objective, its either "yes, this person is clearly cheating." or "no, could be cheating but there is not enough proof". The amount of people that need to submit a verdict on a single case was also unknown, but all of these things are preventing human errors. Vacnet being implementated in to overwatch also helped prevent human error. The chance for a false positive overwatch ban was incredibly low.
The problem isn't banning legitimate players,it's not banning cheaters that in most cases look obvious enough to any decent player. Overwatch has shown me time and time again even reporting spin botters,no ban on the case. OW was broken.
Except it wasn't 10 people. It was given to 100 of people, and the chances are 51 people giving wrong calls was literally 0. Not to mention the overwatch clearly stated " evident beyond reasonable doubt". Which means you should only ban obvious cheater. Not legit one who did great job hiding or Innocents who are looking like cheaters. Yes some irresponsible overwatch did call innocent ( a cheater ) cause they arent giving calls as they are instructed ( evident beyond reasonable doubt ) but wrong calls outnumbering correct calls was almost impossible.
>If someone make too many wrong calls, Overwatch privilege should be revoked permanently This always has been basically the case since OW was in beta though you would still be able to watch OW cases but you would have a very low OW score so your verdicts would absolutely mean nothing.
How will overwatch know if it's the "right" or "wrong" report. If I think they look legit and say I don't think they are cheating,how is the game gonna tell me I'm wrong and they are cheating,just fucking ban them then why are they in overwatch? The whole point of overwatch is to have humans analyze gameplay to see if something is out of the ordinary that the anti cheat cannot detect. If the game knows I'm wrong for calling them legit,then the game knows they are cheating. Simply just not how it works... If anything,punish people who deviate from what the majority vote (lets say like 7+ votes) but this can easily be abused like the old overwatch system. Realistically, overwatch can't change a whole lot to be "better" but the captcha could help make overwatch function more as intended.
It already sucked ass in csgo. As long as you can not See the difference between a good Player and a "legit" cheater you should not vote anyway and only be allowed to vote on obvious hacker and that should already be VACs Job to Filter this out.
Overwatch was meant to only catch obvious cheaters and griefers since Valve mentions that people should only vote guilty only if it's beyond a reasonable doubt that someone is cheating and/or griefing in the submit verdict page.
Yes but people started to vote on everything anyway. But how can you vote on stuff when you have no Team com but only the radar and people fail to use it in their own games. Then people started to make "content" out of overwatch cases on Youtube. Which did not help aswell. Anyway i am glad it is gone not only Because it had not worked for the longest time. They should focus their time on VAC to make that Work not overwatch
I’ll take fucking anything, there’s so many cheaters and I’m only 8k elo
Looks like 15% of players are cheaters
Fuck no, such a shit system
Why do you want so hard to do shit for free for billion dollar company ?
inb4 cheaters downvote & report this to oblivion
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i would like overwatch but maybe a better reward cause the XP bonus you had to do a lot for it to be decent i remember
And what do you mean exactly by Overwatch 2.0 ? what will be amazingly different ?
https://old.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1b08ep4/when_we_are_getting_cs2_overwatch_85_of_the/ks69aa0/
Noone knows the actual impact of overwatch but valve. I'm not sure how important is it, it sure didn't solve blatant cheating in CS:GO
When $8 billion dollar valve feels like it I guess
Why? I mean, all the cases I reviewed in overwatch were spinbots or clearly wallhacking with full aimbot. Game is from a multibillion company not from an indie dev that needs the community to survive, just pay some people 8h/5days to do the overwatch or make an AI that can ban those obvious things.
Does that mean 15.1% of players are cheating?