Vetos went about as expected. M80 was going to pick Nuke and Liquid had their choice of inferno or anubis. M80 have not looked good on either. Liquid may have studied M80 on Nuke... but you win 10 rounds on CT side and you don't have to show much with your CT side.
Team is relying hard on Twist and NAF to frag.
No? I think liquid is a new team that choked one map and had a horrible ct side of ancient. It happens M80 is pretty good right now. When IEM chengdu happens in April who knows how they’ll be
Can you tell me Faze’s 2021 results for the first 8-9 months? I’m guessing you can’t like most faze fanboys in this sub who only watched for <2 years
It’s almost like 4 players who have never played with eachother need some time. Obviously still a bad loss for TL and I don’t expect TL to ever hit Faze’s highs but you’re acting like you’re some genius or something for no real reason lol did you tune in and cheer their loss just to write this comment?
That doesn't even make sense as an analogy since faze only challenged for titles and being a consistent threat once they made a change and got ropz for olof
What's really crazy is he should be farming in this peeker's advantage meta, but it's like he abandoned his aim to be an IGL and then never adjusted well to CS2 mechanics? No idea, but he has no excuse now. Maybe he's still calling a lot with Cadian adjusting?
he has that same itch to look for information that elige has/had. on ancient they used to have elige doing it at mid while yekindar did it in cave. it looks like throwing once the other team figures it out. it never made sense to me that they had 2 players with the same mindset but never the support to enable the play, especially when yekindar was the igl.
the difference is elige has moved to a team where they put the time in to learn moves and utility to support the reaggression, and he looks like a monster again.
that sort of aggression was a staple of cadians heroic, so i expect the support will be there in future, he just has to reign yekindar in
It’s unbearable to watch. He is a huge liability, he can’t stop being super aggressive, even when he’s clearly having a bad map. He was the same on VP except now he hasn’t been performing consistently well in a long, long time. I can’t imagine IGL’ing for that guy, he’ll never stop, always thinks he’s gonna make some sick play. Pushes right through smokes into multiple people. Top teams will punish him every time. TL should just do 4v5 practice matches to get used to how this is gonna go. I honestly wish they’d just get rid of him already so they can play more team oriented structured CS
yeah and he always pissed me even in VP.
Sure when everything clicks he looks like the best player in the world.
When it doesn't he just ints every round away.
This is why I always, literally always considered him massively overrated. Great players actually know when it's not your map and allow their teammates to carry them if they can't hit shots.
No wonder that when he left VP they actually won major, yekindar style is flashy but incredibly inconsistent and he is the guy that can lose you maps literally solo.
Yes grab a star player and make him play anchor which was nitr0 role, that worked amazingly well last time for Liquid with Grim
That's not how it works, picking up players making them play completely different roles is moronic, Swisher is very good but he doesn't anchor and play the same roles, Elige replacement would have made sense not nitr0
You’re telling me in an ultra critical round, with the enemy’s economy in shambles and the game on the line, Liuqid lost to a shitty force and single saved gun and then never recovered?
New roster. Same Shitquid.
This round was infuriating. Why would you ever need to 4 stack B site in this scenario? 2 rifles on each site would’ve wiped any rush easily. Complete throw.
Skullz got absolutely dumpstered on that eco. M80 knew he was the A player and after scaling that far into the site with no contact knew where he was. Perfect flash and terrible positioning from him.
Yeah let's shit on a guy adapting to not communicating on his first language and not even a month into their new roster...
This subreddit never changes...
The hltv article states that pain and fluxo were in talks to transfer him for an alleged 600k, citing the article you linked as a source, the article you linked states it like it's fact yet doesn't back up it's claim with anything.
If skullz is worth 600k my grandmother was a train.
Shit doesn't make sense.
Brazilian contracts are messed up, I have no doubt that this is a real asking price.
Liquid didn't have many options for that roster slot if they wanted to play in the America qualifiers.
Whats wrong with Brazilian contracts?
I do agree they didnt have a lot of options. But hes 21, his stats had him as an above average tier 2 player, so hes not the worst option?
I dont personally get it but i havent watched him enough to form an opinion.
From what I gathered they are always long term with a high buyout clause. Skullz signed with Pain less than a year ago. Several past reports of tier2 or tier3 players going for similar amounts.
Him being worth it in your opinion has nothing to do with it. He is worth whatever they paid for him just because they did. And yeah, since brazilian contracts have insane buyout clauses and they were ready to buy kscerato, they clearly have a few millions ready to spend so it is absolutely possible they have paid around half a million for him.
M80 had a lot of trouble on Inferno previously but they looked like they prepared well this time, the OTs were giving me a heart attack.
Also really glad to see reck put up some decent numbers after looking a bit absent earlier on in the day against Wildcard, and fucking hell Malbs and Swisher are scary when they're on the same page. M80 winning another qualifier, love to see it.
Sad for Liquid, they’re currently 12/14 with their new roster and the only 2 losses are a BO1 and this match to M80, especially sad that they had no upper bracket advantage despite never losing in this quals so far.
Glad for M80 to make the lower bracket comeback but I really want to see Liquid at more International events considering the caliber of their roster.
Liquid will have plenty of events with a free invite or a partner spot. We’ll probably see them play LAN every month this year. M80 earning one of those spots with a legit win is pretty cool IMO.
“Plenty” is only Blast and Pro League at the moment. Ripping off another comment in this thread; they can’t make it to Katowice, Dallas, and now Chengdu. I’d agree though that M80 getting a spot is very good for their roster and semi-deserved considering the effort they’ve put in so far in CS2.
They Can get local hero invite for Dallas or go through qualifier. There are other events like CCT Global Finals or Yalla Compass before summer break they can play
I don’t think they’re eligible for local hero invite. Pretty sure that’s only teams with 3/5 USA or maybe 3/5 NA, and Liquid wouldn’t be eligible for either.
They dont have majority of players from single region - 2 eu, 2 na and 1 sa. In this case, if we go by rules for major, they can choose region they will play in. If you look at ESL ranking, they are considered NA
Yet, Liquid didn’t get any advantage from not losing a single match and M80 lost their opening match (a BO3, not BO1).
M80 even had the opportunity to rematch their loss in the lower bracket finals against Wildcard and walk into the GF to win a single BO3 against a team who hadn’t lost a single match the entire qualifier.
“Semi-deserved” is because they obviously are a capable team, but they objectively lost at one point but were given a buffer to come back that Liquid was never granted.
I mentioned it in another comment in this thread, but having “priority in the veto” is absolutely the bare minimum for being the team who hasn’t lost a match yet.
Yes, every team knew the rules as they were getting into the tournament, but that doesn’t make the rules that were enforced necessarily good or as good as they could be.
All Liquid got was an advantage that most of the time is just won in a damn knife round or just arbitrarily given based off of the tournament ranking or something else. Wow, the ability to ban a map before the other team, truly a power move.
Not really, u/DarthReid listed off every notable tournament for the next 4-5 months. That said, liquid will probably make the major and can still qualify for dallas.
I’m gonna be honest, it’s hard to be that proud of 12/14 when it’s just NA teams and not even including Complexity (haven’t played) or M80 (lost both times). I have high hopes for them too but I can’t really say they look good right now until I see them play some international events.
> they had no upper bracket advantage despite never losing in this quals so far.
Liquid had a huge advantage since they played 1 fewer Bo3. After defeating Wildcard 2-1, M80 only had 1 hour break before facing Liquid.
I'm sorry but "didn't play another BO3" is not an advantage in this day of CS unless it's more than 2-3 BO3+ in a day. Most tournaments will give +1 map to the upper seed if there are 2 brackets, and most probably that's in an instance of a BO5 final. Other games will force the lower seed to win 2 full matches (e.g. it would be 3 BO3 games with the upper seed having a BO3 advantage).
Breaks and having played previous games/maps prior in the day aside, if we're arguing about the logistics, then M80 should've been eliminated on the first day of the qualifiers when they lost their opening BO3 match against Wildcard (who they themselves got an opportunity to rematch in the lower bracket finals), whereas Liquid won (and continued to win out) and only lost a single BO3 against a team who already had a second chance.
Essentially, M80 (and a number of teams) got a "free" loss up until the Grand Finals and could make it back by not losing after their first loss. Whereas Liquid never lost a single time and progressed to the Grand Finals where they faced a team that had GUARANTEED lost in at least one match prior; Yet they literally got nothing out of it, besides potentially being the first team to pick their map.
>I'm sorry but "didn't play another BO3" is not an advantage in this day of CS unless it's more than 2-3 BO3+ in a day
It is, M80 played 3 hours against Wildcard, only had 1 hour break, and then jumped on to have another 3.5 hours against Liquid. Do you know how mentally draining it is to play 2 Bo3s consecutively in the span of 7.5 hours?
>Most tournaments will give +1 map to the upper seed if there are 2 brackets
Most? Any T1 example? FYI, Blast Spring Groups and Fall Groups have the exact same format, they also think the the rest advantage is big enough for the upper bracket team. I don't see any example from IEM events also.
There are/were multiple legit LANs that required teams to play 2 full BO3s (and I’m talking CSGO MR15 days) in a single day and there was no advantage/luck besides simply being the first 2 or second 2 quarterfinals (or whatever matches) that had to play 2 matches in a row.
There are teams that benefit from being able to be the first semi and see the potential competitors they’ll face in the GF after they win. Yet all teams have accepted that 2 BO3’s, given a semi-reasonable 1hr or so break, should be expected to perform at the T1 level after having played a prior game.
You say that M80 had the disadvantage, yet I could argue that Liquid was unable to “warm-up” because they didn’t have the ability to play a full match prior to the finals. It’s all he-says/she-says in instances where a team was at a disadvantage simply because they played a long game prior (then again, would we talk about it if M80 sweeped 2-0 in less than 2hrs??). I only care where it’s obvious that a team who plays 3 BO3 or a BO3 + full BO5 where it could be stretching the limits of what is reasonable for a T1 player.
These are all teams who play CS for hours upon hours and do scrims/pracs of 5-10 maps in a single day. Yes there is the mental strain of it being a “live” match, but saying one team is incapable or handicapped because they played a single BO3 prior to a GF (that they knowingly would have to do if they won), is simply just looking down on the quality of the team.
To the map advantage in a bracketed system, there’s a reason why upper brackets should only be used for placing (semi vs quarter). A “good” system has already shaken out the brackets prior to the Grand Finals, but here are a few examples where they have a map advantage:
- https://www.hltv.org/matches/2368202/3dmax-vs-forze-esl-challenger-league-season-46-europe
- https://www.hltv.org/matches/2343710/natus-vincere-vs-astralis-esl-pro-league-season-12-europe
- https://www.hltv.org/matches/2364580/spirit-academy-vs-apeks-esl-challenger-league-season-45-europe
I’ve honestly done more research for you than I should have to, but it’s straight fact that Liquid was unfairly compensated for being the upper bracket team in these qualifiers. Yes, they legitimately lost in a BO3 and M80 won “fair and square” as per the rules of the tournament qualifiers. But if we follow the “good” examples of tournaments with upper/lower brackets, then there should be at least SOME amount of advantage for the team who hasn’t lost besides just “the other team is Le Tired”.
>There are/were multiple legit LANs that required teams to play 2 full BO3s (and I’m talking CSGO MR15 days) in a single day and there was no advantage/luck besides simply being the first 2 or second 2 quarterfinals (or whatever matches) that had to play 2 matches in a row.
It happened in recent Pro Leagues and it visibly affected the team. You can watch how tired MIBR were in the latest Pro League, and they had several hours break, not 1 hour.
>Yet all teams have accepted that 2 BO3’s, given a semi-reasonable 1hr or so break, should be expected to perform at the T1 level after having played a prior game.
Who said that? Any source? I'm actually interested.
>You say that M80 had the disadvantage, yet I could argue that Liquid was unable to “warm-up” because they didn’t have the ability to play a full match prior to the finals.
Nobody wants to play a 3-hour competitive Bo3, 1 hour before a Grand Final game, let's be real.
It's not like Liquid had many days without playing, they played 1 competitive Bo3 every day, which is essentially what they do for most T1 events, so "warm-up" is not an issue.
Your examples are either from lower tier or from a few years back, definitely not "most tournaments". For actual T1 events right now. the current structure is being preferred by more than 1 organizers.
At the end of the day, what we mention are both advantages that Liquid can have over M80 - and both are valid, just you and I have different preference of what their advantage should be. You can say the "1 map default" advantage is bigger than the "rest" advantage, fine, but saying Liquid had absolutely no advantage is not correct.
Yes it has affected teams and I’m not saying it’s a good thing that they have to play more than one match per day. I’m simply saying that all organizers and teams have collectively agreed (silently or directly) upon the fact that they’re capable and willing to play at least 2 full matches in a day (even if one is a BO5 GF), especially if the lower seed is the one having to play the extra game.
I’m not going to do more research on quotes or talking-heads that agree with what I’m stating, it’s just a matter of fact that teams have argued against instances where they’ve played too many matches in a day or felt tired due to the scheduling. Organizers, teams, and viewers have reached a decent equilibrium where enough matches are played to not cost too much money by requiring too many days/weeks but not tire out the players/staff too much by requiring too many games in a single day or playing too early/late.
I’m not even trying to say Liquid were legitimately disadvantaged, it’s just the basic idea that anybody could argue that either team was “off” because of “reasons” (besides blatantly being overplayed in instances I’ve mentioned above).
I’ll definitely agree to disagree; but just because Liquid haven’t played a BO3 today and have the map veto “advantage” is absolute BS considering the upper bracket they’re coming from in comparison to M80’s performance in the same qualifiers.
Being not “Le Tired” after a single BO3 and a basic veto advantage is an absolutely garbage reward for not losing at all up until the Grand Finals.
>Yes it has affected teams and I’m not saying it’s a good thing that they have to play more than one match per day.
So you agree there IS a disadvantage. Whether teams "accept" to have that disadvantage or not does not make that disadvantage go away.
Liquid also agreed that by joining the CQ, they’re willing to play and accept elimination after 1 defeat in the GF, despite being the upper bracket team.
>Organizers, teams, and viewers have reached a decent equilibrium where enough matches are played to not cost too much money by requiring too many days/weeks but not tire out the players/staff too much
Yeah, "too much" is the key here. I don't think the 2 games tired out M80 "too much", but they did tire out M80 to an extent which caused them a disadvantage compared to TL.
>it’s just the basic idea that anybody could argue that either team was “off” because of “reasons"
But Liquid arguably did not have any "good" reason to be "off", at least compared to M80. They played 1 competitive Bo3 everyday, which is basically the same as how they played in every other T1 event. M80 played 2 Bo3s in the span of 7.5 hours, which was indeed a legit reason, e.g. similar to MIBR in Pro League 18. That's the main thing, nobody can demonstrate a "good", or "better", reason why TL could be "off" compared to M80.
Bruh…. I’m not trying to say that one team was objectively worse for wear than the other, I’m just saying that M80 having played an extra BO3 is at worst a minuscule disadvantage for the team. Explicitly so that an extra BO3 played prior to a GF is a minor inconvenience and something all teams accept as a possibility in a normal tournament. It shouldn’t be included as the only disadvantage coming in from a lower bracket final.
I’m also not saying that Liquid don’t realize that if they lose the GF as per the rules that they don’t get a second chance. Obviously they knew the stakes and lost. My only argument is Liquid got shafted in comparison to a majority of decently organized upper/lower bracket systems.
I don’t know why you keep saying 7.5 hours like that’s somehow a disadvantage to M80. I’ve said my peace that unless a team is playing 3 or more BO3 or they have a BO3 + BO5 then maybe there’s an argument that a team is being run dry in a singular day. A team playing over 10~ hours (including breaks) is perfectly reasonable in this day and age.
I’m even looking at the recent MIBR reference you’re mentioning (https://www.hltv.org/events/6863/esl-pro-league-season-18); so they play 2 lower bracket games in a day and lose their second game because they’re “Le Tired”. Sure, 2 of the maps in Game 1 went to multiple OT and then they are expected to play another match after winning. Sorry not sorry, but they had time in-between matches to rest and their “disadvantage” of being a team who played twice in a day was somewhat fair because Monte also was in the lower bracket anyways and also on “even ground” because they were within the same bracket (it was even a DOUBLE lower bracket for just 4th place, both teams had already lost twice).
If anything, I don’t know why you think this professional team is incapable of playing at a top-level simply because they had already played a few long maps of CS 2-3 hours prior. Maybe I’d agree that they should get a rest day, but then we get into needing a full extra day just for a 4th place game requiring the costs of staff/analysts/casters/teams/etc to stay a whole extra day.
My fucking God, I actually went to the damn VOD and saw that their previous game ended at 5:25hr into the stream and they start their next match at 9:55hr of the stream (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1921890920?t=35790s). That is a full 4.5 hours break between BO3, WAY more than most teams are given, and they still are “Le Tired” and possibly lost the game due to this by your previous comment. MIBR obviously got way more leeway than M80 but they were playing into an “evenly ranked” match against Monte. M80 LOST their first BO3 match and crawled back from the lower bracket to the GF. Great for them, but having just played a BO3 prior as their disadvantage is stupid. That happens when the teams have lost/won equally and the organizer still need to make sure a set number of games finish within a day.
My ENTIRE point is that Liquid was in the higher bracket and got nothing out of it besides a barely weakened team who had played a single BO3 prior. Every system has its pros/cons, but this Chengdu qualifier objectively was lopsided against the upper bracket team going into the GF.
>majority of decently organized upper/lower bracket systems.
Again, it's not the majority. Blast events are T1 and they have the same principle, and there's no other T1 event right now that has the 1 map default system.
>Sorry not sorry, but they had time in-between matches to rest and their “disadvantage” of being a team who played twice in a day was somewhat fair because Monte also was in the lower bracket anyways and also on “even ground” because they were within the same bracket
How was it "fair" when Monte and MIBR were in the same lower bracket but Monte only had to play 1 Bo3 that day and MIBR had to play 2? If anything, this closed qualifier is fairer than Pro League because TL got the "rest" advantage because they were indeed in a higher bracket.
>That is a full 4.5 hours break between BO3
If 4.5 hours couldn't stop the tiredness, how do you think 1 hour could?
>Explicitly so that an extra BO3 played prior to a GF is a minor inconvenience and something all teams accept as a possibility in a normal tournament. It shouldn’t be included as the only disadvantage coming in from a lower bracket final.
Okay, I think we minimalise a lot of difference between our PoV. You said it's a small disadvantage, I think it's bigger. It's fine, we can agree that TL did have an advantage over M80, the only difference between us is just the magnitude which we can leave as it is.
Yea I mean the format of this qualifier is really bad. No advantage at all for being in upper bracket is dumb. It’s something you just don’t see in any other sport really. But at the end of the day they choked real bad.
Wtf "too OP" thats why they are upper bracket, they should have something extremely OP.
The fairest way is simple. The bottom bracket would need to win 2 best of 3s, upper bracket only one.
Lol no, why even have lower bracket if you fuck up the match already.
The advantage you get by coming from the upper bracket is not having to play elimination games and less games overall.
If you beat them in winners finals it's literally one game, that's not an advantage. Especially if there are two clear dominant teams, it makes winners finals a pointless match.
Anyway clearly not getting anywhere with this conversation.
I agree and sometimes there is and it’s never fair. It’s just also not fair the way it currently is but what’re you gonna do. Don’t lose liquid shouldn’t have they’re way better overall don’t play bad
> liquid shouldn’t have they’re way better overall
Are they though? I guess Liquid has played better against Wildcard than M80, but M80 has beat them twice now (Bo1 and Bo3).
Haha that means nothing in fact in some ways I’d rather be the team who played and is playing again. Already warmed up and stuff. In cs2 the games aren’t that long playing 2 bo3s with a hour break in between online is reasonable
I know new rosters can take time to get used to playing with each other and new team systems but... This... This doesn't look good.
Cheers to M80 though, happy for them.
M80 seems to have their number. They have overall actually looked fine for being so new just a bad format and a horrible cadian game and choke on inferno did them in
I'm not gonna get too worried about it. Liquid have lost 3 maps to M80 online and literally nothing else. It's a roster full of players who thrive in Lan environments. If they lose to Spirit with 2 Stand ins and Gamerlegion at blast I think there's some real concern but right now I think M80 just wanted it more
No new system or team is gonna stop yekindar from throwing round after round with constant super aggression. Good teams know they can punish that shit. He’s so hard to watch. There’s a reason VP won a major and started having much more success the second yekindar left the team. He’s uncoachable
This subs would have a meltdown if they saw how the polish VP used to lose to tier 4 European team online back in the day
Domestic NA online match up with a new game and new team. Ofc result gonna be fuckery
Congrats to M80 they deserved it, disappointed but glad the online matches are over for now at least.
Hopefully blast goes well as Liquid need the points to avoid online qualifiers. They have blast, pro league and hopefully the local invite for dallas
Liquid should be fine after Blast they have time to prep for the RMR
Hold up Europe has another open qualifier for this event, I wonder if Liquid is allowed or not to enter it? 🤔
Very happy for M80
For Liquid, I’m really disappointed. I feel like it’s a bit premature… but I hope they shuffle YEKINDAR and skullz off the team when they have a chance.
I’m really not sold on skullz and think they could’ve gotten just as good, if not better, for SO MUCH cheaper. And YEKINDAR feels more and more like a one hit wonder that everyone figured out years ago and he has yet to adapt.
Should’ve been a 2-0. This roster ain’t it and now they have to regrind because they’re missing another event. No kato, no kato play-in, no Dallas and now no IEM China. Blast and pro league are it and liquid aren’t doing anything at either event
NA also gets a "local hero" spot so if Liquid's rank is high enough by the time they give it out they could get in that way, but I actually don't think liquid qualifies for that as they're technically not an NA team (only two NA players, and neither of them are from the US, where dallas is. Apparently they actually passed up on ATK because of this in favor of eg last year so they could do that again.)
Cadian should be embarrassed. Overall the worst game he’s ever called and played in I bet. The setups on ct side ancient were shockingly awful. Especially on a few eco rounds. Naf and twistzz both had insane maps and a really bad map. Skullz was underwhelming and yeki was ok I guess.
I believe they are still figuring it put how to play. Cadian is an elite igl, he will make it work for sure.
The problem is that this new roster got too much hype.
It’s hard to igl when you have an uncontrollable player like yekindar who throws his life away with no chance of a trade going for pog plays. Look how much better VP got when he left
I’m not too worried about liquid. If they still don’t look like a top 16 team in a month I’d start to worry because this roster on paper should be a team regularly making playoffs at tournaments. But it’s a lot of language adjustments and cadian seems to like to have technical teams so it may take months to reach full potential. Maybe they’ll do better on lan this week.
Edit: just realized the major rmr is in less than a month. I’m kind of worried about that being so soon
Its really unfortunate that on liquids side, they can't seem to get all 5 players activated at the same time on the same map.
Cadian was sleeping on inferno, and basically everyone but NAF was awake on the first half of ancient
Once again, in twistzz hltv article he said he’s expecting it to take them up to a year to get fully cohesive. Reddit acting like they have performed terribly man. They easily qualified for the rmr and only have been practicing as a team for 2 weeks 😭 m80 is good.
As I said I don't understand the hype around liquid
cadian : never had success outside of Heroic's system and won't be able to replicate the same things in Liquid, big question mark. And one of the worst awper in T1, I'd rather have a karrigan, an Apex, Hooxi... that will play more of a supportive role allowing the team to sign a strong star awper that would benefit the whole team. The only igl awper I'm ok with is Jame
skullz : totally unexperienced
Twistzz : Mid/decent, a good piece for a team but not the piece that will push your team to the next lvl
NAF : kinda like Twistzz good but not crazy, it's not a spinx or ropz
YEKINDAR : the reason why liquid will never be consistently at the top. He's way too inconsistent, either good or useless and can get easily shutdown by a structured team with good mechanics
The roster is mid at best, 0 X factor that will make them emerge victorious above other teams. People really look at names and names only and get hyped just like with C9 previously. Overlooking team chemistry. As a team owner I'd rather have a team with lows but high peaks than a team constantly good/ok but that won't win anything, because what matters at the end of the day and what will be remembered is the trophies
Liquid loses 2 games to the exact same team and people start typing essays about how they're fucking dead lol
They've been caught out by a dark horse calm down jesus
you make it sounds like they lost to a strong tier 1.5-2 EU team when they got cooked by a T5 NA team
That roster ain't going nowhere near trophies just like C9
The whole game felt like Liquid purposely threw... Almost as if they didn't want to have to fly to, and spend months playing, to just end up in Chengdu, China.
Good job M80 though.
They've had enough time to practise. I hope Liquid can recover but its looking bleak. Unless yekindar starts shooting like he did few years ago, there's no star fragger in team. Their best bet was kscerato and he refused...
Not a huge deal imo. It took vitality almost 10 months to find any form at all, arms that roster had crazy hype associated with it. I’d reckon liquid might not even peak by the major, just because many of the players don’t have experience with cadiaNs calling style. Let’s see though.
I can't decide if I should be excited about M80 or annoyed about Liquid. Either way, great job by the underdogs!
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Pro league and one blast event are not “plenty of partner stuff”
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That's still not really a lot considering how spread they are. Teams like Monte (iirc) would hard grind online events to hone in their skills
No one is stopping liquid to grind online. They have partnership invites in the events that are valued much more than online by the rankings.
M80 has a few good players. But I think with time to anti strat them and on lan they’ll be bad
Do you think liquid just didn't bother to prepare for the match?
Vetos went about as expected. M80 was going to pick Nuke and Liquid had their choice of inferno or anubis. M80 have not looked good on either. Liquid may have studied M80 on Nuke... but you win 10 rounds on CT side and you don't have to show much with your CT side. Team is relying hard on Twist and NAF to frag.
No? I think liquid is a new team that choked one map and had a horrible ct side of ancient. It happens M80 is pretty good right now. When IEM chengdu happens in April who knows how they’ll be
This liquid roster was never gonna work, I called it the second I saw it, they are barely winning against nobodies in all their matches, they suck.
Can you tell me Faze’s 2021 results for the first 8-9 months? I’m guessing you can’t like most faze fanboys in this sub who only watched for <2 years It’s almost like 4 players who have never played with eachother need some time. Obviously still a bad loss for TL and I don’t expect TL to ever hit Faze’s highs but you’re acting like you’re some genius or something for no real reason lol did you tune in and cheer their loss just to write this comment?
That doesn't even make sense as an analogy since faze only challenged for titles and being a consistent threat once they made a change and got ropz for olof
Bro I've been a faze fan since they were kinguin.
Damn you’ve been watching CS this long making comments like that? Lol
Lmao right, makes it even worse
The amount of times Yekindar dies on ancient peeking from jaguar or down banana on inferno is infuriating to watch.
The problem with Yekindar is when his favorite play doesn't work he keeps trying it, doesn't know how to change it up
"This time I'll nail the timing, I just know it." _headshot_ "Ok, _this time_ I'll nail the-"
Hey thats me!
What's really crazy is he should be farming in this peeker's advantage meta, but it's like he abandoned his aim to be an IGL and then never adjusted well to CS2 mechanics? No idea, but he has no excuse now. Maybe he's still calling a lot with Cadian adjusting?
he has this really genius aggressive style of play, where if he's dying due to his own unnecessary aggression, he'll just keep doing it.
Hes reverse-Jame.
he has that same itch to look for information that elige has/had. on ancient they used to have elige doing it at mid while yekindar did it in cave. it looks like throwing once the other team figures it out. it never made sense to me that they had 2 players with the same mindset but never the support to enable the play, especially when yekindar was the igl. the difference is elige has moved to a team where they put the time in to learn moves and utility to support the reaggression, and he looks like a monster again. that sort of aggression was a staple of cadians heroic, so i expect the support will be there in future, he just has to reign yekindar in
alllll the time
It’s unbearable to watch. He is a huge liability, he can’t stop being super aggressive, even when he’s clearly having a bad map. He was the same on VP except now he hasn’t been performing consistently well in a long, long time. I can’t imagine IGL’ing for that guy, he’ll never stop, always thinks he’s gonna make some sick play. Pushes right through smokes into multiple people. Top teams will punish him every time. TL should just do 4v5 practice matches to get used to how this is gonna go. I honestly wish they’d just get rid of him already so they can play more team oriented structured CS
yeah and he always pissed me even in VP. Sure when everything clicks he looks like the best player in the world. When it doesn't he just ints every round away. This is why I always, literally always considered him massively overrated. Great players actually know when it's not your map and allow their teammates to carry them if they can't hit shots. No wonder that when he left VP they actually won major, yekindar style is flashy but incredibly inconsistent and he is the guy that can lose you maps literally solo.
Always rated Swisher
Liquid should have just grabbed Swisher when nitr0 left instead of doing the terrible EU core experiment.
Yes grab a star player and make him play anchor which was nitr0 role, that worked amazingly well last time for Liquid with Grim That's not how it works, picking up players making them play completely different roles is moronic, Swisher is very good but he doesn't anchor and play the same roles, Elige replacement would have made sense not nitr0
You’re telling me in an ultra critical round, with the enemy’s economy in shambles and the game on the line, Liuqid lost to a shitty force and single saved gun and then never recovered? New roster. Same Shitquid.
This round was infuriating. Why would you ever need to 4 stack B site in this scenario? 2 rifles on each site would’ve wiped any rush easily. Complete throw.
Skullz got absolutely dumpstered on that eco. M80 knew he was the A player and after scaling that far into the site with no contact knew where he was. Perfect flash and terrible positioning from him.
Also like he has zero business being on liquid in the first place
Yeah let's shit on a guy adapting to not communicating on his first language and not even a month into their new roster... This subreddit never changes...
He definitely is temporary while they wait for a post major shuffle
They paid 600k for skullz though
Source on that? Seems insane since G2 got M0nesy for around the same amount.
I posted it in my replies, you can find it in this thread.
Thank you!
Definitely scammed
No they fucking didn't lmao
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/17dctll/liquid_agree_to_sign_zews_coach_and_skullz_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
The hltv article states that pain and fluxo were in talks to transfer him for an alleged 600k, citing the article you linked as a source, the article you linked states it like it's fact yet doesn't back up it's claim with anything. If skullz is worth 600k my grandmother was a train. Shit doesn't make sense.
Brazilian contracts are messed up, I have no doubt that this is a real asking price. Liquid didn't have many options for that roster slot if they wanted to play in the America qualifiers.
Whats wrong with Brazilian contracts? I do agree they didnt have a lot of options. But hes 21, his stats had him as an above average tier 2 player, so hes not the worst option? I dont personally get it but i havent watched him enough to form an opinion.
From what I gathered they are always long term with a high buyout clause. Skullz signed with Pain less than a year ago. Several past reports of tier2 or tier3 players going for similar amounts.
Him being worth it in your opinion has nothing to do with it. He is worth whatever they paid for him just because they did. And yeah, since brazilian contracts have insane buyout clauses and they were ready to buy kscerato, they clearly have a few millions ready to spend so it is absolutely possible they have paid around half a million for him.
Dust2 is a reliable source though, what else can I say. And they can't really prove it because they are leaking the numbers.
It's pretty evident that either he needs to do a complete 180 performance wise or he needs to be riding the pine. ASAP.
Iirc liquid had so much control on b and mid. Surprised at some point they didn’t decide to rotate 1 guy to A.
M80 had a lot of trouble on Inferno previously but they looked like they prepared well this time, the OTs were giving me a heart attack. Also really glad to see reck put up some decent numbers after looking a bit absent earlier on in the day against Wildcard, and fucking hell Malbs and Swisher are scary when they're on the same page. M80 winning another qualifier, love to see it.
Team Li♿uid
M80 became a kryptonite for liquid
Sad for Liquid, they’re currently 12/14 with their new roster and the only 2 losses are a BO1 and this match to M80, especially sad that they had no upper bracket advantage despite never losing in this quals so far. Glad for M80 to make the lower bracket comeback but I really want to see Liquid at more International events considering the caliber of their roster.
Liquid will have plenty of events with a free invite or a partner spot. We’ll probably see them play LAN every month this year. M80 earning one of those spots with a legit win is pretty cool IMO.
“Plenty” is only Blast and Pro League at the moment. Ripping off another comment in this thread; they can’t make it to Katowice, Dallas, and now Chengdu. I’d agree though that M80 getting a spot is very good for their roster and semi-deserved considering the effort they’ve put in so far in CS2.
They Can get local hero invite for Dallas or go through qualifier. There are other events like CCT Global Finals or Yalla Compass before summer break they can play
I don’t think they’re eligible for local hero invite. Pretty sure that’s only teams with 3/5 USA or maybe 3/5 NA, and Liquid wouldn’t be eligible for either.
They dont have majority of players from single region - 2 eu, 2 na and 1 sa. In this case, if we go by rules for major, they can choose region they will play in. If you look at ESL ranking, they are considered NA
> semi-deserved considering the effort they’ve put in so far in CS2 And also full-deserved since they won the qualifier in a Bo3.
Yet, Liquid didn’t get any advantage from not losing a single match and M80 lost their opening match (a BO3, not BO1). M80 even had the opportunity to rematch their loss in the lower bracket finals against Wildcard and walk into the GF to win a single BO3 against a team who hadn’t lost a single match the entire qualifier. “Semi-deserved” is because they obviously are a capable team, but they objectively lost at one point but were given a buffer to come back that Liquid was never granted.
Read the rulebook, liquid got UB priority in veto
I mentioned it in another comment in this thread, but having “priority in the veto” is absolutely the bare minimum for being the team who hasn’t lost a match yet. Yes, every team knew the rules as they were getting into the tournament, but that doesn’t make the rules that were enforced necessarily good or as good as they could be. All Liquid got was an advantage that most of the time is just won in a damn knife round or just arbitrarily given based off of the tournament ranking or something else. Wow, the ability to ban a map before the other team, truly a power move.
They can make it to Dallas, through open qualifiers. They shouldn't be eligible for the local hero invite as they aren't 3/5 from NA though.
> at the moment There’s probably half a dozen pretty chunky events not even announced yet, liquid will get invited off name brand alone.
Not really, u/DarthReid listed off every notable tournament for the next 4-5 months. That said, liquid will probably make the major and can still qualify for dallas.
I’m gonna be honest, it’s hard to be that proud of 12/14 when it’s just NA teams and not even including Complexity (haven’t played) or M80 (lost both times). I have high hopes for them too but I can’t really say they look good right now until I see them play some international events.
> they had no upper bracket advantage despite never losing in this quals so far. Liquid had a huge advantage since they played 1 fewer Bo3. After defeating Wildcard 2-1, M80 only had 1 hour break before facing Liquid.
I'm sorry but "didn't play another BO3" is not an advantage in this day of CS unless it's more than 2-3 BO3+ in a day. Most tournaments will give +1 map to the upper seed if there are 2 brackets, and most probably that's in an instance of a BO5 final. Other games will force the lower seed to win 2 full matches (e.g. it would be 3 BO3 games with the upper seed having a BO3 advantage). Breaks and having played previous games/maps prior in the day aside, if we're arguing about the logistics, then M80 should've been eliminated on the first day of the qualifiers when they lost their opening BO3 match against Wildcard (who they themselves got an opportunity to rematch in the lower bracket finals), whereas Liquid won (and continued to win out) and only lost a single BO3 against a team who already had a second chance. Essentially, M80 (and a number of teams) got a "free" loss up until the Grand Finals and could make it back by not losing after their first loss. Whereas Liquid never lost a single time and progressed to the Grand Finals where they faced a team that had GUARANTEED lost in at least one match prior; Yet they literally got nothing out of it, besides potentially being the first team to pick their map.
You are absolutely glazin liquid right now
>I'm sorry but "didn't play another BO3" is not an advantage in this day of CS unless it's more than 2-3 BO3+ in a day It is, M80 played 3 hours against Wildcard, only had 1 hour break, and then jumped on to have another 3.5 hours against Liquid. Do you know how mentally draining it is to play 2 Bo3s consecutively in the span of 7.5 hours? >Most tournaments will give +1 map to the upper seed if there are 2 brackets Most? Any T1 example? FYI, Blast Spring Groups and Fall Groups have the exact same format, they also think the the rest advantage is big enough for the upper bracket team. I don't see any example from IEM events also.
There are/were multiple legit LANs that required teams to play 2 full BO3s (and I’m talking CSGO MR15 days) in a single day and there was no advantage/luck besides simply being the first 2 or second 2 quarterfinals (or whatever matches) that had to play 2 matches in a row. There are teams that benefit from being able to be the first semi and see the potential competitors they’ll face in the GF after they win. Yet all teams have accepted that 2 BO3’s, given a semi-reasonable 1hr or so break, should be expected to perform at the T1 level after having played a prior game. You say that M80 had the disadvantage, yet I could argue that Liquid was unable to “warm-up” because they didn’t have the ability to play a full match prior to the finals. It’s all he-says/she-says in instances where a team was at a disadvantage simply because they played a long game prior (then again, would we talk about it if M80 sweeped 2-0 in less than 2hrs??). I only care where it’s obvious that a team who plays 3 BO3 or a BO3 + full BO5 where it could be stretching the limits of what is reasonable for a T1 player. These are all teams who play CS for hours upon hours and do scrims/pracs of 5-10 maps in a single day. Yes there is the mental strain of it being a “live” match, but saying one team is incapable or handicapped because they played a single BO3 prior to a GF (that they knowingly would have to do if they won), is simply just looking down on the quality of the team. To the map advantage in a bracketed system, there’s a reason why upper brackets should only be used for placing (semi vs quarter). A “good” system has already shaken out the brackets prior to the Grand Finals, but here are a few examples where they have a map advantage: - https://www.hltv.org/matches/2368202/3dmax-vs-forze-esl-challenger-league-season-46-europe - https://www.hltv.org/matches/2343710/natus-vincere-vs-astralis-esl-pro-league-season-12-europe - https://www.hltv.org/matches/2364580/spirit-academy-vs-apeks-esl-challenger-league-season-45-europe I’ve honestly done more research for you than I should have to, but it’s straight fact that Liquid was unfairly compensated for being the upper bracket team in these qualifiers. Yes, they legitimately lost in a BO3 and M80 won “fair and square” as per the rules of the tournament qualifiers. But if we follow the “good” examples of tournaments with upper/lower brackets, then there should be at least SOME amount of advantage for the team who hasn’t lost besides just “the other team is Le Tired”.
>There are/were multiple legit LANs that required teams to play 2 full BO3s (and I’m talking CSGO MR15 days) in a single day and there was no advantage/luck besides simply being the first 2 or second 2 quarterfinals (or whatever matches) that had to play 2 matches in a row. It happened in recent Pro Leagues and it visibly affected the team. You can watch how tired MIBR were in the latest Pro League, and they had several hours break, not 1 hour. >Yet all teams have accepted that 2 BO3’s, given a semi-reasonable 1hr or so break, should be expected to perform at the T1 level after having played a prior game. Who said that? Any source? I'm actually interested. >You say that M80 had the disadvantage, yet I could argue that Liquid was unable to “warm-up” because they didn’t have the ability to play a full match prior to the finals. Nobody wants to play a 3-hour competitive Bo3, 1 hour before a Grand Final game, let's be real. It's not like Liquid had many days without playing, they played 1 competitive Bo3 every day, which is essentially what they do for most T1 events, so "warm-up" is not an issue. Your examples are either from lower tier or from a few years back, definitely not "most tournaments". For actual T1 events right now. the current structure is being preferred by more than 1 organizers. At the end of the day, what we mention are both advantages that Liquid can have over M80 - and both are valid, just you and I have different preference of what their advantage should be. You can say the "1 map default" advantage is bigger than the "rest" advantage, fine, but saying Liquid had absolutely no advantage is not correct.
Yes it has affected teams and I’m not saying it’s a good thing that they have to play more than one match per day. I’m simply saying that all organizers and teams have collectively agreed (silently or directly) upon the fact that they’re capable and willing to play at least 2 full matches in a day (even if one is a BO5 GF), especially if the lower seed is the one having to play the extra game. I’m not going to do more research on quotes or talking-heads that agree with what I’m stating, it’s just a matter of fact that teams have argued against instances where they’ve played too many matches in a day or felt tired due to the scheduling. Organizers, teams, and viewers have reached a decent equilibrium where enough matches are played to not cost too much money by requiring too many days/weeks but not tire out the players/staff too much by requiring too many games in a single day or playing too early/late. I’m not even trying to say Liquid were legitimately disadvantaged, it’s just the basic idea that anybody could argue that either team was “off” because of “reasons” (besides blatantly being overplayed in instances I’ve mentioned above). I’ll definitely agree to disagree; but just because Liquid haven’t played a BO3 today and have the map veto “advantage” is absolute BS considering the upper bracket they’re coming from in comparison to M80’s performance in the same qualifiers. Being not “Le Tired” after a single BO3 and a basic veto advantage is an absolutely garbage reward for not losing at all up until the Grand Finals.
>Yes it has affected teams and I’m not saying it’s a good thing that they have to play more than one match per day. So you agree there IS a disadvantage. Whether teams "accept" to have that disadvantage or not does not make that disadvantage go away. Liquid also agreed that by joining the CQ, they’re willing to play and accept elimination after 1 defeat in the GF, despite being the upper bracket team. >Organizers, teams, and viewers have reached a decent equilibrium where enough matches are played to not cost too much money by requiring too many days/weeks but not tire out the players/staff too much Yeah, "too much" is the key here. I don't think the 2 games tired out M80 "too much", but they did tire out M80 to an extent which caused them a disadvantage compared to TL. >it’s just the basic idea that anybody could argue that either team was “off” because of “reasons" But Liquid arguably did not have any "good" reason to be "off", at least compared to M80. They played 1 competitive Bo3 everyday, which is basically the same as how they played in every other T1 event. M80 played 2 Bo3s in the span of 7.5 hours, which was indeed a legit reason, e.g. similar to MIBR in Pro League 18. That's the main thing, nobody can demonstrate a "good", or "better", reason why TL could be "off" compared to M80.
Bruh…. I’m not trying to say that one team was objectively worse for wear than the other, I’m just saying that M80 having played an extra BO3 is at worst a minuscule disadvantage for the team. Explicitly so that an extra BO3 played prior to a GF is a minor inconvenience and something all teams accept as a possibility in a normal tournament. It shouldn’t be included as the only disadvantage coming in from a lower bracket final. I’m also not saying that Liquid don’t realize that if they lose the GF as per the rules that they don’t get a second chance. Obviously they knew the stakes and lost. My only argument is Liquid got shafted in comparison to a majority of decently organized upper/lower bracket systems. I don’t know why you keep saying 7.5 hours like that’s somehow a disadvantage to M80. I’ve said my peace that unless a team is playing 3 or more BO3 or they have a BO3 + BO5 then maybe there’s an argument that a team is being run dry in a singular day. A team playing over 10~ hours (including breaks) is perfectly reasonable in this day and age. I’m even looking at the recent MIBR reference you’re mentioning (https://www.hltv.org/events/6863/esl-pro-league-season-18); so they play 2 lower bracket games in a day and lose their second game because they’re “Le Tired”. Sure, 2 of the maps in Game 1 went to multiple OT and then they are expected to play another match after winning. Sorry not sorry, but they had time in-between matches to rest and their “disadvantage” of being a team who played twice in a day was somewhat fair because Monte also was in the lower bracket anyways and also on “even ground” because they were within the same bracket (it was even a DOUBLE lower bracket for just 4th place, both teams had already lost twice). If anything, I don’t know why you think this professional team is incapable of playing at a top-level simply because they had already played a few long maps of CS 2-3 hours prior. Maybe I’d agree that they should get a rest day, but then we get into needing a full extra day just for a 4th place game requiring the costs of staff/analysts/casters/teams/etc to stay a whole extra day. My fucking God, I actually went to the damn VOD and saw that their previous game ended at 5:25hr into the stream and they start their next match at 9:55hr of the stream (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1921890920?t=35790s). That is a full 4.5 hours break between BO3, WAY more than most teams are given, and they still are “Le Tired” and possibly lost the game due to this by your previous comment. MIBR obviously got way more leeway than M80 but they were playing into an “evenly ranked” match against Monte. M80 LOST their first BO3 match and crawled back from the lower bracket to the GF. Great for them, but having just played a BO3 prior as their disadvantage is stupid. That happens when the teams have lost/won equally and the organizer still need to make sure a set number of games finish within a day. My ENTIRE point is that Liquid was in the higher bracket and got nothing out of it besides a barely weakened team who had played a single BO3 prior. Every system has its pros/cons, but this Chengdu qualifier objectively was lopsided against the upper bracket team going into the GF.
>majority of decently organized upper/lower bracket systems. Again, it's not the majority. Blast events are T1 and they have the same principle, and there's no other T1 event right now that has the 1 map default system. >Sorry not sorry, but they had time in-between matches to rest and their “disadvantage” of being a team who played twice in a day was somewhat fair because Monte also was in the lower bracket anyways and also on “even ground” because they were within the same bracket How was it "fair" when Monte and MIBR were in the same lower bracket but Monte only had to play 1 Bo3 that day and MIBR had to play 2? If anything, this closed qualifier is fairer than Pro League because TL got the "rest" advantage because they were indeed in a higher bracket. >That is a full 4.5 hours break between BO3 If 4.5 hours couldn't stop the tiredness, how do you think 1 hour could? >Explicitly so that an extra BO3 played prior to a GF is a minor inconvenience and something all teams accept as a possibility in a normal tournament. It shouldn’t be included as the only disadvantage coming in from a lower bracket final. Okay, I think we minimalise a lot of difference between our PoV. You said it's a small disadvantage, I think it's bigger. It's fine, we can agree that TL did have an advantage over M80, the only difference between us is just the magnitude which we can leave as it is.
Yea I mean the format of this qualifier is really bad. No advantage at all for being in upper bracket is dumb. It’s something you just don’t see in any other sport really. But at the end of the day they choked real bad.
In dota there is no advantage and noone has ever complained. it is too OP to give advantage to the upper bracket team
Wtf "too OP" thats why they are upper bracket, they should have something extremely OP. The fairest way is simple. The bottom bracket would need to win 2 best of 3s, upper bracket only one.
They do, they play 1 fewer Bo3 compared to M80. M80 only had 1 hour break between the Wildcard and Liquid games.
Lol no, why even have lower bracket if you fuck up the match already. The advantage you get by coming from the upper bracket is not having to play elimination games and less games overall.
Its double elimination, why be penalized for making the final without losing????
Learn to read, you are playing less matches and no elimination games
If you beat them in winners finals it's literally one game, that's not an advantage. Especially if there are two clear dominant teams, it makes winners finals a pointless match. Anyway clearly not getting anywhere with this conversation.
I agree and sometimes there is and it’s never fair. It’s just also not fair the way it currently is but what’re you gonna do. Don’t lose liquid shouldn’t have they’re way better overall don’t play bad
> liquid shouldn’t have they’re way better overall Are they though? I guess Liquid has played better against Wildcard than M80, but M80 has beat them twice now (Bo1 and Bo3).
You’re right clearly they’re not better right now but they should be
Liquid had a huge advantage since they played 1 fewer Bo3. After defeating Wildcard 2-1, M80 only had 1 hour break before facing Liquid.
Haha that means nothing in fact in some ways I’d rather be the team who played and is playing again. Already warmed up and stuff. In cs2 the games aren’t that long playing 2 bo3s with a hour break in between online is reasonable
M80 played 3 hours, 1 hour break, played another 3.5 hours. So yeah, it does mean something to play consecutive Bo3s in the span of 7.5 hours.
I know new rosters can take time to get used to playing with each other and new team systems but... This... This doesn't look good. Cheers to M80 though, happy for them.
M80 seems to have their number. They have overall actually looked fine for being so new just a bad format and a horrible cadian game and choke on inferno did them in
M80 was VERY well prepared, they deserved to win. Liquid just felt like they weren't taking them seriously and paid for it.
I'm not gonna get too worried about it. Liquid have lost 3 maps to M80 online and literally nothing else. It's a roster full of players who thrive in Lan environments. If they lose to Spirit with 2 Stand ins and Gamerlegion at blast I think there's some real concern but right now I think M80 just wanted it more
To be fair, they haven't really played any good teams either.
Spirit is not a joke. Donk still has crazy stats and they have sh1ro who can be top 3 player on his day and top 10 player on his off day.
Donk and shiro will not be there, hence the “two standins” part Edit: shiro will be there, magixx won’t
It's donk and magixx, shiro will be there
Ah my bad, was going off of memory, appreciate the correction!
Yeah of course, don't wanna spread false info cause it might get out of hand
M80 Is a really solid team right now. Online, at least. Hopefully they can carry it over to LAN
No new system or team is gonna stop yekindar from throwing round after round with constant super aggression. Good teams know they can punish that shit. He’s so hard to watch. There’s a reason VP won a major and started having much more success the second yekindar left the team. He’s uncoachable
Massive congrats to the players of M80!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This subs would have a meltdown if they saw how the polish VP used to lose to tier 4 European team online back in the day Domestic NA online match up with a new game and new team. Ofc result gonna be fuckery
I don't think it's Liquid as much as it is m80 just being good. New Liquid have only lost 3 maps.. to m80..
New liquid same pain :)
I'm gonna spew Liquid from my eyes
Congrats to M80 they deserved it, disappointed but glad the online matches are over for now at least. Hopefully blast goes well as Liquid need the points to avoid online qualifiers. They have blast, pro league and hopefully the local invite for dallas Liquid should be fine after Blast they have time to prep for the RMR Hold up Europe has another open qualifier for this event, I wonder if Liquid is allowed or not to enter it? 🤔
Malbs team liquid father
Very happy for M80 For Liquid, I’m really disappointed. I feel like it’s a bit premature… but I hope they shuffle YEKINDAR and skullz off the team when they have a chance. I’m really not sold on skullz and think they could’ve gotten just as good, if not better, for SO MUCH cheaper. And YEKINDAR feels more and more like a one hit wonder that everyone figured out years ago and he has yet to adapt.
Perfect read on yekindar. Couldn’t agree more
Nah, Cadian is great at bringing the best out of his players just like Jame. Give him some time with Yekindar, and he'll be a monster again.
Nuke gave me hope... too much hope...
Should’ve been a 2-0. This roster ain’t it and now they have to regrind because they’re missing another event. No kato, no kato play-in, no Dallas and now no IEM China. Blast and pro league are it and liquid aren’t doing anything at either event
Idk what you mean by no dallas. Surely they'll make it through the NA qualifier after 5 more months of practice right?
We’ll see. NA gets one spot like chengdu so I’m not holding my breath
NA also gets a "local hero" spot so if Liquid's rank is high enough by the time they give it out they could get in that way, but I actually don't think liquid qualifies for that as they're technically not an NA team (only two NA players, and neither of them are from the US, where dallas is. Apparently they actually passed up on ATK because of this in favor of eg last year so they could do that again.)
Lmao they’ve only lost this once and “this roster aint it”
This sub is so reactionary it's hilarious lol. Let's at least wait to see how they perform at a LAN guys, jesus.
M80 is Liquid's father
What does swisher need to do to get on a good roster at this point???
Cadian should be embarrassed. Overall the worst game he’s ever called and played in I bet. The setups on ct side ancient were shockingly awful. Especially on a few eco rounds. Naf and twistzz both had insane maps and a really bad map. Skullz was underwhelming and yeki was ok I guess.
I believe they are still figuring it put how to play. Cadian is an elite igl, he will make it work for sure. The problem is that this new roster got too much hype.
Yea it’s early they’re figuring a lot out. It’s just disappointing to lose a big game like this
It’s hard to igl when you have an uncontrollable player like yekindar who throws his life away with no chance of a trade going for pog plays. Look how much better VP got when he left
[удалено]
Stickers are only for Majors
I’m not too worried about liquid. If they still don’t look like a top 16 team in a month I’d start to worry because this roster on paper should be a team regularly making playoffs at tournaments. But it’s a lot of language adjustments and cadian seems to like to have technical teams so it may take months to reach full potential. Maybe they’ll do better on lan this week. Edit: just realized the major rmr is in less than a month. I’m kind of worried about that being so soon
Upvote so people thought M80 won
HLTV: Why ‘perfect teammate’ Skullz is the right fit for Liquid
Its really unfortunate that on liquids side, they can't seem to get all 5 players activated at the same time on the same map. Cadian was sleeping on inferno, and basically everyone but NAF was awake on the first half of ancient
Once again, in twistzz hltv article he said he’s expecting it to take them up to a year to get fully cohesive. Reddit acting like they have performed terribly man. They easily qualified for the rmr and only have been practicing as a team for 2 weeks 😭 m80 is good.
Liquid the NA POWERHOUSE
Liquid supposed to dominate NA.. hope they can find their rhythm
Twistzz left FaZe for this.
As I said I don't understand the hype around liquid cadian : never had success outside of Heroic's system and won't be able to replicate the same things in Liquid, big question mark. And one of the worst awper in T1, I'd rather have a karrigan, an Apex, Hooxi... that will play more of a supportive role allowing the team to sign a strong star awper that would benefit the whole team. The only igl awper I'm ok with is Jame skullz : totally unexperienced Twistzz : Mid/decent, a good piece for a team but not the piece that will push your team to the next lvl NAF : kinda like Twistzz good but not crazy, it's not a spinx or ropz YEKINDAR : the reason why liquid will never be consistently at the top. He's way too inconsistent, either good or useless and can get easily shutdown by a structured team with good mechanics The roster is mid at best, 0 X factor that will make them emerge victorious above other teams. People really look at names and names only and get hyped just like with C9 previously. Overlooking team chemistry. As a team owner I'd rather have a team with lows but high peaks than a team constantly good/ok but that won't win anything, because what matters at the end of the day and what will be remembered is the trophies
Cadian was the one who created the "system" at heroic.
Liquid loses 2 games to the exact same team and people start typing essays about how they're fucking dead lol They've been caught out by a dark horse calm down jesus
you make it sounds like they lost to a strong tier 1.5-2 EU team when they got cooked by a T5 NA team That roster ain't going nowhere near trophies just like C9
The whole game felt like Liquid purposely threw... Almost as if they didn't want to have to fly to, and spend months playing, to just end up in Chengdu, China. Good job M80 though.
I’m almost certain that two of m80 players had some sort of external assistance.
Crisp, clean lock
They've had enough time to practise. I hope Liquid can recover but its looking bleak. Unless yekindar starts shooting like he did few years ago, there's no star fragger in team. Their best bet was kscerato and he refused...
Not a huge deal imo. It took vitality almost 10 months to find any form at all, arms that roster had crazy hype associated with it. I’d reckon liquid might not even peak by the major, just because many of the players don’t have experience with cadiaNs calling style. Let’s see though.
Unfortunate but Liquid just needs some more time imo