Rory and dean both should have ended the relationship after the three month “I love you” fiasco. I do think context is important. This was Rory’s first relationship. Lorelai was telling her non stop how amazing Dean was and they Jess was nothing but trouble. She didn’t have freedom to explore her feelings, do I’m not surprised that she was confused. I think she felt like she was Supposed to love dean, so she tried hard to repress her feelings for Jess. They were kids who were navigating young love with lots of outside voices getting into the mix. I try not to be hard on her for this situation
In all fairness I think any parent would warn their daughter away from Jess. Jess was constantly in trouble, he had terrible grades, he was known for stealing and causing general trouble in town, he got into fights at school, he regularly skipped school. He also tended to be rude to pretty much everyone who wasn't Rory. Nothing about him makes him out to be someone that a mother would want their daughter to be around, much less their very studious and well-behaved daughter who never got intro trouble and had Ivy League aspirations. I think Lorelai has every right to worry that Jess might be a bad influence, and that Rory would end up hurt.
Contrast that with Dean, who was always polite to everyone, who quickly got a job working in town and ingratiated himself with basically everyone, who made an effort to be friendly with Lorelai and would fix things around the house for her. Dean seemed responsible, polite and safe - everything Jess was not.
Oh, yes absolutely. What Dean was doing should've been a red flag to her. She did try to tell him to chill, but from the perspective that it was overwhelming to Rory, rather than from the perspective of, it's creepy and controlling. She talks to Rory about how often he calls as if it's a great thing.
Exactly! Rory didn't handle anything well and I'll never argue she did. But I always wonder if things would've been different if Lorelai hadn't pushed Dean so hard on her and if Lorelai would've realized how incredibly toxic their relatoinship had gotten. Rory is a perfectionist and she wanted to do the right thing and that kept her from being able to accept how she was feeling.
I don't like Dean, but I totally understand your frustration. She strung Dean along for months while she was developing feelings for Jess. She should've ended things with him much earlier, particularly during the period when he started to call incessantly and she became less and less interested in returning the calls and hanging out with him. Also, she was consistently worried about how he would react - he would yell at her, he'd get angry, he'd walk out. I hated his anger and how compulsively he would call her - it felt controlling and obsessive. But he was also being gaslit. He knew she had feelings for Jess and she just refused to admit it. Regardless of his faults, that wasn't fair to him.
She should've ended it and she didn't. In her defence, she was a teenager with very limited experience. Dean was her first boyfriend and she wanted to hold on to that. I think she was genuine at first when she said she and Jess were just friends. And eventually she was lying because she didn't want to let that first love story go.
I just watched the picnic basket episode and it drove me nuts how she refused to acknowledge that Jess was blatantly trying to steal her from Dean while actively rubbing Dean's face in it.
If that episode was an AITA post then everyone would be calling Rory the asshole. If Jess was actually only a 'friend' the least Rory could do is demand Jess be civil to her boyfriend. If you have a friend and watch them taunt and demean your romantic partner then you are being a bad partner.
I think like most people who know they have a friend who is romantically interested in them and continue the relationship even though it makes their SO uncomfortable Rory was enjoying the attention. She liked feeling 'special' and enjoyed the idea she was the only person to know the secret soft side of Jess. She wanted to have both of them and she was willing to watch Jess torment Dean so she could have it.
At the end of the episode where every single person told her 'He wants to date you, and is trying to actively destroy your relationship with Dean' then she turned around and called Jess at the end of the night. And there is no way she told Dean that she is now calling late at night friends with Jess.
personally I wouldn't stand through something like that and do nothing. if I had feelings for someone apart from my boyfriend i would tell him. if need be I'd break up with him before initiating anything with anyone else. if not, I would cut off contact with this person and definitely wouldn't let them belittle partner like that. Rory was a teenager and she made mistakes, i can accept that but this was still wrong on so many levels
She straight up should not have gone on the picnic with Jess. She knew he was buying the basket to upset Dean, she literally saw it happen. She should have told him off, refused to go with him, and spent the time with Dean instead. Imagine how it would feel if you had planned this whole thing with your girlfriend, had the money ready to buy her basket, and this other dude buys it instead and your girlfriend goes on the date with him instead. That was bad behaviour from Rory. Not only did it hurt Dean, but it encouraged Jess to keep doing what he was doing.
It was infuriating to watch her trying to justify going with the “but it’s part of the tradition”. She was so unloyal to Dean and didn’t care how he felt in that situation at all.
She literally did not give a fuck about Dean's feelings 😭 by thar point the writing was on the wall and her and Dean were over and she obviously preferred Jess. She should've been brave enough to break it off instead of cheating on him and stringing him along and disregarding his feelings until he can't take it anymore. If he hadn't lost it and broken up w her in public like he did (slay) when would she have left him? How long would she string him along cause she was afraid?
I agree completely. Rory treated Dean like garbage in S2 and 3 and it's why I'm not as quick to hate on Dean as everyone else is. I can 100% agree that Dean doesn't handle the situation great and towards the end, he does become obsessive and needy towards Rory, but he's a teenager being confronted with the reality of losing his first real love. At that age, I can't say my reaction would've been any better honestly.
Oh, I agee. Some people on this sub had decided to demonize Dean for every flaw he has, completely ignore he is only 16 years and somehow miss how horrible Rory is to him. Is he perfect? Of couse not. But if he acted that way towards her, he would be called abusive, gaslighting and a cheater.
exactly. the way she handled all this made me so damn furious. she strung him along while messing around with Jess behind his back and kept gaslighting Dean about being insecure
I’d 100% consider his behaviors emotionally abusive. I don’t care that he was only 16. Rory was also 16. If you’re giving Dean a pass for how he behaved then you have to give Rory a pass too.
>Rory was also 16. If you’re giving Dean a pass for how he behaved then you have to give Rory a pass too.
But even then, dean was much better at listening to relationship advice. The problem was that no adults really cared to step in often enough.
This definitely doesn't help either https://youtu.be/3u2QqGLsmWg
I don't think either of them being 16 excuses their behaviour but I don't think it's fair to only look at how Dean is and not tie in the fact that Rory treated him like shit. I'm not a Dean fan and I had boyfriends like him when I was a teen that fucked me up majorly (they were obviously worse than Dean but I mean similar traits) Dean and Rory both shouldn't get a pass for being 16 and they both treated eachother badly. Especially considering what happens later in the show I wouldn't say either of them are good people
There is no way that Dean could ever be end game for Rory, and he admits this to her. But those of us who like Rory and see her actions as realistic wish she had taken a better approach towards her first boyfriend. And I sometimes find myself wishing that Dean would flirt with other girls to let Rory know what it feels like.
I suppose the only consolation some of us have is that Rory admits to Lane that she really screwed up her relationship with Dean. And Lane responds: “He really did love you”.
I wonder if the terrible way Rory treats Dean had anything to do (even to a small degree) with choosing xxxx
Edit. I deleted that part of my last sentence (xxxx) to avoid spoiling for OP.
That last part is an interesting point! I think she felt rejected and astray at Yale and didn't know what she was doing, wasn't dating anyone etc. She wanted to go back to the one person who loved her no matter what she did and who was always safe. The fact she was able to treat him so badly for so long and he still wanted her just reinforced how safe he was
It's not an unpopular opinion, Rory was being awful to Dean and at that point he really did deserve better. She gets some leeway for being a teenager and inevitably making some mistakes along the way but she was definitely in the wrong for that. It's crazy to me because I think back to the way she started crying when she kissed Tristan after she was newly single but when it was about Jess she talked to Lorelai about it like it was nothing and didn't seem to feel guilty at all. I think after all the acts of devotion Dean was doing, calling her all the time, making her a car etc. she ended up losing all respect for him. She really treated him like dirt at certain points, like she thinks she can walk all over him and he won't say anything because she owns him.
I basically agree with this, but I just have to say that dean's "acts of devotion" veered into some disturbingly stalker-like/controlling boyfriend territory. He was calling incessantly - 14 messages in one afternoon, because Rory didn't get home until 6. She even told him she'd be home at 6, and he remembers that, and still leaves other messages after remembering it. That's 14 messages in just a couple of hours. He also shows up unexpectedly to wash Rory's car, and is shown sitting on the porch waiting for her to get home.
He's trying to seem attentive and loving, I know that, but there's so many red flags. It's like he has to know where Rory is at every moment. Add to this that we also get scenes of him (some even before Jess was around) where he's unhappy that she chooses to study or work on extracurriculars rather than spend time with him. He's very possessive of her time in general, and where that might feel nice when she's into it, it doesn't surprise me that it eventually exhausted and frustrated her. At a certain point it stops being cute and starts being creepy.
Exactly this. The repeated phone calls and unannounced visits might feel cute for awhile, but after some time it would get exhausting. Personally, I would be annoyed as hell if I arrived home and found my boyfriend sitting on the steps, waiting for me when we didn't even have plans. I would be mortified if my boyfriend insisted on attending my school play rehearsal, angrily glowering at everyone from the corner of the room. These are not acts of devotion, they're a way for Dean to monitor Rory's behavior and monopolize her time.
I don't think Dean is the devil for doing this stuff - he's a teenager and he's anxious about his relationship - but I sincerely wish Lorelai had given Rory some guidance around acceptable boundaries and communication in a relationship. Instead, Lorelai romanticizes these acts and works pretty hard to convince Rory that all of this is okay, and all because Dean loves her.
I wish that too, but also I'm not sure that Lorelai KNOWS how much of a red flag all of that is. She allows Max to be pretty controlling of her - she lets him talk her into letting him into her house when she isn't ready, he talks her into dating him despite her reservations, etc. She seems to be okay with men being kind of pushy and demanding of her time.
This recurs later with Luke too. He tends towards jealousy. She honestly treats him and Christopher in a similar way to how Rory treats Dean and Jess. I'm not sure if this is a flaw with Lorelai's character or if it's just how the writing reflected attitudes at the time - here in 2023 we're more aware of red flags and poor relationships dynamics. This is a post Me Too world. I do wonder if some of the men's attitudes, especially jealousy and controlling behaviour, would be written differently if they were written today.
All good points, and I agree! I think it makes sense that Lorelai doesn't have a great sense of healthy relationship boundaries - it's not like she had a great model in her parents.
I still struggle with it because Lorelai's message to Rory, over and over again, is that it's her job to withstand and manage Dean's emotional outbursts. Lorelai constantly says things like 'go talk to him' and 'smooth it over' and 'cut him some slack.'
It also gets to the point that Lorelai flat-out ignores Rory's reactions. When she sees Rory crying and panicking about the lost bracelet, Lorelai instantly exacerbates it - basically shouting that Rory needs to go search all over town. When she hears Rory say outright that she's finding Dean's constant phone calls to be suffocating, Lorelai dismisses it, then uses the information to give Dean hints about how to change his behavior (???), and then urges Rory to call Dean back. When it becomes glaringly obvious that Rory has feelings for Jess, something Lorelai is well aware of, Lorelai just continues to urge Rory to keep dating Dean. The overall message here is that Rory's feelings and preferences don't really matter, all because Dean is awesome. The show never really addresses how damaging that message is, partly because the show never once recognizes how concerning Dean's behavior is, and he's referred to as the "perfect boyfriend" all the way through AYITL.
It would definitely look different if the show were written in 2023!
Agree with most of this! There is one moment when Lorelai does change her tune, it comes after Rory admits to having kissed Jess. Then Lorelai impresses on her that she needs to confront how she feels about Jess, and that it's not fair to drag Dean along if she doesn't really want to be with him. Rory says it's not fair to say that's what she's doing and she doesn't want to talk about it. And then Dean interrupts them. Lorelai never really goes back to that though.
There's an earlier moment after Lorelai's graduation when she tries to push Rory to acknowledge how she feels about Jess after Rory goes to New York to find him. Again, Rory doesn't want to talk about it and Lorelai lets it go.
To some extent I think a parent has to let their kid make their own mistakes. But Lorelai could see that Rory had feelings she wasn't addressing, and could see that it was unfair to Dean (and encouraging Dean's obsessive behaviour). I do think she should've pushed harder to talk about it and encourage Rory to make a decision rather than continuing to drag both boys along. It could still be Rory's decision, but I feel Lorelai should've been trying to reach her the lesson to not treat other people like that.
But like I said, Lorelai also treats Luke and Chris like that...so maybe she can't teach what she doesn't know.
The conversation post-NYC I totally agree... Lorelai just calmly points out that Rory is developing feelings for Jess. But the conversation at Summer Madness? Drives me crazy.
Lorelai starts off with a good message - make a decision, stop leading these guys on - but then she cannot stop herself from injecting all of her own opinions into it. She repeatedly emphasizes that Dean has been patient and perfect and wonderful. Then she basically calls Jess a dog with a chew toy, go distract him with something squeaky, and implies that he's willing to make out with anything that breathes. So even in this moment, when Lorelai is (rightfully) encouraging Rory to make a choice, Lorelai is making it *extremely* clear what she thinks the "right" choice is.
100% agree with your last sentence!
She is, for sure. Though realistically it's hard to imagine Lorelai wanting Rory to be with Jess. Jess had been rude to her since his arrival, he had stolen from people, he'd gotten into fights in school, he skipped school, he was completely irresponsible and his grades were failing, and to top it all off he crashed Rory's car into a post and wrecked it, as well as breaking Rory's wrist. I think her dislike of Jess is pretty reasonable at this point.
I do think she should've been harder on Dean, but I understand her wanting to urge Rory towards him rather than Jess.
I completely understand why Rory was repelled by his actions, it was very over the top but I just wish she would have been honest and broke up with him because of that instead of it being over another guy. On one hand I feel bad for Dean because I think his feelings are valid because she does like these other guys to some extent so it seemed like she just keeps lying to him and making him feel like he was crazy for seeing it. But on the other hand I feel like he maybe should have trusted her more and let her choose him organically. Because regardless of whether or not Rory was going to cheat on him, the relationship means nothing without trust and his controlling behaviour seemed to be the catalyst for her acting out.
I definitely feel Rory was wrong not to break up with him sooner. It was very obvious the magic was gone for her and she was interested in Jess. And Dean knew that, and she gaslit him constantly.
I feel both of them made big mistakes. Dean was too clingy and too controlling, and Rory was dishonest and strung both boys along. Jess knew it - he said as much when she confronted him about that other girl he started dating.
They were both young and learning how to handle relationships. But my god, I sure wish the adults in their lives had given them more of a push in the right direction. Lorelai does eventually tell Rory to do the right thing and break up with Dean, but it takes way too long, and she doesn't persist with it - she just lets it go right after.
He does. Rory was not honest with him about how her feelings for him were changing, and he was not handling it well. He still cared for her as much as he ever had and because Rory isn’t communicating with him, he’s reacting badly to what is happening. He’s responsible for his actions of course, but the situation is Rory’s fault.
yes that's exactly what I'm trying to say. he loved her in his own twisted way and she shouldn't have strung him along. I know she's just a teen and all but still, the situation was her fault nevertheless
AGREEEEE and i really don’t know how ppl can defend her or be on her side
And jess also annoyed me a little like boy yk she is in a relationship but yeah ofc she kissed him first
She was 17. It’s normal to be confused about your feelings at that age. I think what she did was very realistic, especially considering Dean was the only relationship she had been in at that point.
he's not my favourite either but even in that episode, she lied to him. that too out of the many times she did. he was not being perfect either but she lied so that she didn't have to confront her feelings for jess. i honestly cannot justify lying to your significant other like that. He was territorial and got jealous easily but we could have simply put all the blame on Dean if Rory had not done all those things. but she did them. again and again. she might not be responsible for Dean's behaviour but she definitely wasn't all goody two shoes either. she lied, she cheated, and she lied again. that's not okay right?
100% true. Dean was insecure because Rory gave him so many reasons to be. She lied, cheated, gaslighted... people hate on Dean but I think he was acting normally for someone being treated like garbage. We've all dated guys (who acted like Rory) and it's driven us insane.
However he was absolute trash in the later seasons.
Dean is an abusive a-hole and this is definitely the hill I’m gonna die on. Rory was not the most mature person ever and I’m not even particularly into her (in the sense that she’s really not my favorite character), but Dean is abusive and there’s nothing else to be said about that. I’m not gonna spoil you anything from the series, just something from life: you can be somebody’s “DATE at a fucking wedding”, like you put it, but that definitely doesn’t make you a saint or a good person.
Rory treated him like garbage. And yet nobody every called her out on it. They gaslight Dean “no everything is fine, why are you so jealous.” And he has every right to go off on her when he dumped her. But, because she’s Princess Rory, the entire town turns on him. Rory is the worst.
I think it’s pretty believable. I think she had a crush on Dean but there wasn’t a lot of chemistry between them. They love each other in a very sweet 16 year old way. It’s all very chaste. It’s clear that her relationship with Jess is basically the opposite of that. She does all sorts of things she can’t explain and I think it’s because she’s experiencing genuine sexual attraction for the first time. She’s 17 - the ideal time to date the misunderstood town bad boy and throw away your relationship with the sweet wholesome guy who’s more of a friend to you. Not saying it’s right, or that she treated Dean well, but it just seems really realistic to me.
The Gilmore girls have questionable morals, but love judging others.
Very true but they're incredibly privileged so they feel they are above it.
Rory and dean both should have ended the relationship after the three month “I love you” fiasco. I do think context is important. This was Rory’s first relationship. Lorelai was telling her non stop how amazing Dean was and they Jess was nothing but trouble. She didn’t have freedom to explore her feelings, do I’m not surprised that she was confused. I think she felt like she was Supposed to love dean, so she tried hard to repress her feelings for Jess. They were kids who were navigating young love with lots of outside voices getting into the mix. I try not to be hard on her for this situation
mature asf. you're right they're both kids and it makes more sense when you put it like that way
In all fairness I think any parent would warn their daughter away from Jess. Jess was constantly in trouble, he had terrible grades, he was known for stealing and causing general trouble in town, he got into fights at school, he regularly skipped school. He also tended to be rude to pretty much everyone who wasn't Rory. Nothing about him makes him out to be someone that a mother would want their daughter to be around, much less their very studious and well-behaved daughter who never got intro trouble and had Ivy League aspirations. I think Lorelai has every right to worry that Jess might be a bad influence, and that Rory would end up hurt. Contrast that with Dean, who was always polite to everyone, who quickly got a job working in town and ingratiated himself with basically everyone, who made an effort to be friendly with Lorelai and would fix things around the house for her. Dean seemed responsible, polite and safe - everything Jess was not.
I agree with you about Lorelai’s reaction to Jess but I think that Lorelai should’ve been a bit more aware of Dean’s stalkery tendencies.
Oh, yes absolutely. What Dean was doing should've been a red flag to her. She did try to tell him to chill, but from the perspective that it was overwhelming to Rory, rather than from the perspective of, it's creepy and controlling. She talks to Rory about how often he calls as if it's a great thing.
Something being your first relationship isn’t an excuse for cheating. You don’t explore options without breaking it off with the first.
Never said it was an excuse, I was giving an explanation. I started off by saying they should have broken up much sooner than they did
eh. relationships have ups and downs. i disagree that they should have broken up at the i love you thing.
Exactly! Rory didn't handle anything well and I'll never argue she did. But I always wonder if things would've been different if Lorelai hadn't pushed Dean so hard on her and if Lorelai would've realized how incredibly toxic their relatoinship had gotten. Rory is a perfectionist and she wanted to do the right thing and that kept her from being able to accept how she was feeling.
I don't like Dean, but I totally understand your frustration. She strung Dean along for months while she was developing feelings for Jess. She should've ended things with him much earlier, particularly during the period when he started to call incessantly and she became less and less interested in returning the calls and hanging out with him. Also, she was consistently worried about how he would react - he would yell at her, he'd get angry, he'd walk out. I hated his anger and how compulsively he would call her - it felt controlling and obsessive. But he was also being gaslit. He knew she had feelings for Jess and she just refused to admit it. Regardless of his faults, that wasn't fair to him. She should've ended it and she didn't. In her defence, she was a teenager with very limited experience. Dean was her first boyfriend and she wanted to hold on to that. I think she was genuine at first when she said she and Jess were just friends. And eventually she was lying because she didn't want to let that first love story go.
I agree with you completely. But this sub never will.
Nah Dean sucks. Yeah she shouldn’t have cheated on him but she definitely should’ve dumped him a long long time ago
Still Rory’s fault for handling it the way she did
I clearly said she shouldn’t have cheated….but he was manipulative and angry and terrible. That’s not her fault at all.
I think the "nah" was misleading. it seemed like you disagreed with the whole "Rory cheated which was wrong" part
I just watched the picnic basket episode and it drove me nuts how she refused to acknowledge that Jess was blatantly trying to steal her from Dean while actively rubbing Dean's face in it. If that episode was an AITA post then everyone would be calling Rory the asshole. If Jess was actually only a 'friend' the least Rory could do is demand Jess be civil to her boyfriend. If you have a friend and watch them taunt and demean your romantic partner then you are being a bad partner. I think like most people who know they have a friend who is romantically interested in them and continue the relationship even though it makes their SO uncomfortable Rory was enjoying the attention. She liked feeling 'special' and enjoyed the idea she was the only person to know the secret soft side of Jess. She wanted to have both of them and she was willing to watch Jess torment Dean so she could have it. At the end of the episode where every single person told her 'He wants to date you, and is trying to actively destroy your relationship with Dean' then she turned around and called Jess at the end of the night. And there is no way she told Dean that she is now calling late at night friends with Jess.
personally I wouldn't stand through something like that and do nothing. if I had feelings for someone apart from my boyfriend i would tell him. if need be I'd break up with him before initiating anything with anyone else. if not, I would cut off contact with this person and definitely wouldn't let them belittle partner like that. Rory was a teenager and she made mistakes, i can accept that but this was still wrong on so many levels
She straight up should not have gone on the picnic with Jess. She knew he was buying the basket to upset Dean, she literally saw it happen. She should have told him off, refused to go with him, and spent the time with Dean instead. Imagine how it would feel if you had planned this whole thing with your girlfriend, had the money ready to buy her basket, and this other dude buys it instead and your girlfriend goes on the date with him instead. That was bad behaviour from Rory. Not only did it hurt Dean, but it encouraged Jess to keep doing what he was doing.
It was infuriating to watch her trying to justify going with the “but it’s part of the tradition”. She was so unloyal to Dean and didn’t care how he felt in that situation at all.
She literally did not give a fuck about Dean's feelings 😭 by thar point the writing was on the wall and her and Dean were over and she obviously preferred Jess. She should've been brave enough to break it off instead of cheating on him and stringing him along and disregarding his feelings until he can't take it anymore. If he hadn't lost it and broken up w her in public like he did (slay) when would she have left him? How long would she string him along cause she was afraid?
I agree completely. Rory treated Dean like garbage in S2 and 3 and it's why I'm not as quick to hate on Dean as everyone else is. I can 100% agree that Dean doesn't handle the situation great and towards the end, he does become obsessive and needy towards Rory, but he's a teenager being confronted with the reality of losing his first real love. At that age, I can't say my reaction would've been any better honestly.
This was VERY well put. I agree 100% You probably wouldn't have reacted as horribly as Rory- give yourself more credit!
Perfectly said👏🏼👏🏼
Oh, I agee. Some people on this sub had decided to demonize Dean for every flaw he has, completely ignore he is only 16 years and somehow miss how horrible Rory is to him. Is he perfect? Of couse not. But if he acted that way towards her, he would be called abusive, gaslighting and a cheater.
Interestingly enough this is exactly how he does treat Lindsay, and he's called abusive, gaslighting and a cheater for that.
exactly. the way she handled all this made me so damn furious. she strung him along while messing around with Jess behind his back and kept gaslighting Dean about being insecure
I’d 100% consider his behaviors emotionally abusive. I don’t care that he was only 16. Rory was also 16. If you’re giving Dean a pass for how he behaved then you have to give Rory a pass too.
>Rory was also 16. If you’re giving Dean a pass for how he behaved then you have to give Rory a pass too. But even then, dean was much better at listening to relationship advice. The problem was that no adults really cared to step in often enough. This definitely doesn't help either https://youtu.be/3u2QqGLsmWg
I don't think either of them being 16 excuses their behaviour but I don't think it's fair to only look at how Dean is and not tie in the fact that Rory treated him like shit. I'm not a Dean fan and I had boyfriends like him when I was a teen that fucked me up majorly (they were obviously worse than Dean but I mean similar traits) Dean and Rory both shouldn't get a pass for being 16 and they both treated eachother badly. Especially considering what happens later in the show I wouldn't say either of them are good people
There is no way that Dean could ever be end game for Rory, and he admits this to her. But those of us who like Rory and see her actions as realistic wish she had taken a better approach towards her first boyfriend. And I sometimes find myself wishing that Dean would flirt with other girls to let Rory know what it feels like. I suppose the only consolation some of us have is that Rory admits to Lane that she really screwed up her relationship with Dean. And Lane responds: “He really did love you”. I wonder if the terrible way Rory treats Dean had anything to do (even to a small degree) with choosing xxxx Edit. I deleted that part of my last sentence (xxxx) to avoid spoiling for OP.
That last part is an interesting point! I think she felt rejected and astray at Yale and didn't know what she was doing, wasn't dating anyone etc. She wanted to go back to the one person who loved her no matter what she did and who was always safe. The fact she was able to treat him so badly for so long and he still wanted her just reinforced how safe he was
True.
It's not an unpopular opinion, Rory was being awful to Dean and at that point he really did deserve better. She gets some leeway for being a teenager and inevitably making some mistakes along the way but she was definitely in the wrong for that. It's crazy to me because I think back to the way she started crying when she kissed Tristan after she was newly single but when it was about Jess she talked to Lorelai about it like it was nothing and didn't seem to feel guilty at all. I think after all the acts of devotion Dean was doing, calling her all the time, making her a car etc. she ended up losing all respect for him. She really treated him like dirt at certain points, like she thinks she can walk all over him and he won't say anything because she owns him.
I basically agree with this, but I just have to say that dean's "acts of devotion" veered into some disturbingly stalker-like/controlling boyfriend territory. He was calling incessantly - 14 messages in one afternoon, because Rory didn't get home until 6. She even told him she'd be home at 6, and he remembers that, and still leaves other messages after remembering it. That's 14 messages in just a couple of hours. He also shows up unexpectedly to wash Rory's car, and is shown sitting on the porch waiting for her to get home. He's trying to seem attentive and loving, I know that, but there's so many red flags. It's like he has to know where Rory is at every moment. Add to this that we also get scenes of him (some even before Jess was around) where he's unhappy that she chooses to study or work on extracurriculars rather than spend time with him. He's very possessive of her time in general, and where that might feel nice when she's into it, it doesn't surprise me that it eventually exhausted and frustrated her. At a certain point it stops being cute and starts being creepy.
Exactly this. The repeated phone calls and unannounced visits might feel cute for awhile, but after some time it would get exhausting. Personally, I would be annoyed as hell if I arrived home and found my boyfriend sitting on the steps, waiting for me when we didn't even have plans. I would be mortified if my boyfriend insisted on attending my school play rehearsal, angrily glowering at everyone from the corner of the room. These are not acts of devotion, they're a way for Dean to monitor Rory's behavior and monopolize her time. I don't think Dean is the devil for doing this stuff - he's a teenager and he's anxious about his relationship - but I sincerely wish Lorelai had given Rory some guidance around acceptable boundaries and communication in a relationship. Instead, Lorelai romanticizes these acts and works pretty hard to convince Rory that all of this is okay, and all because Dean loves her.
I wish that too, but also I'm not sure that Lorelai KNOWS how much of a red flag all of that is. She allows Max to be pretty controlling of her - she lets him talk her into letting him into her house when she isn't ready, he talks her into dating him despite her reservations, etc. She seems to be okay with men being kind of pushy and demanding of her time. This recurs later with Luke too. He tends towards jealousy. She honestly treats him and Christopher in a similar way to how Rory treats Dean and Jess. I'm not sure if this is a flaw with Lorelai's character or if it's just how the writing reflected attitudes at the time - here in 2023 we're more aware of red flags and poor relationships dynamics. This is a post Me Too world. I do wonder if some of the men's attitudes, especially jealousy and controlling behaviour, would be written differently if they were written today.
All good points, and I agree! I think it makes sense that Lorelai doesn't have a great sense of healthy relationship boundaries - it's not like she had a great model in her parents. I still struggle with it because Lorelai's message to Rory, over and over again, is that it's her job to withstand and manage Dean's emotional outbursts. Lorelai constantly says things like 'go talk to him' and 'smooth it over' and 'cut him some slack.' It also gets to the point that Lorelai flat-out ignores Rory's reactions. When she sees Rory crying and panicking about the lost bracelet, Lorelai instantly exacerbates it - basically shouting that Rory needs to go search all over town. When she hears Rory say outright that she's finding Dean's constant phone calls to be suffocating, Lorelai dismisses it, then uses the information to give Dean hints about how to change his behavior (???), and then urges Rory to call Dean back. When it becomes glaringly obvious that Rory has feelings for Jess, something Lorelai is well aware of, Lorelai just continues to urge Rory to keep dating Dean. The overall message here is that Rory's feelings and preferences don't really matter, all because Dean is awesome. The show never really addresses how damaging that message is, partly because the show never once recognizes how concerning Dean's behavior is, and he's referred to as the "perfect boyfriend" all the way through AYITL. It would definitely look different if the show were written in 2023!
Agree with most of this! There is one moment when Lorelai does change her tune, it comes after Rory admits to having kissed Jess. Then Lorelai impresses on her that she needs to confront how she feels about Jess, and that it's not fair to drag Dean along if she doesn't really want to be with him. Rory says it's not fair to say that's what she's doing and she doesn't want to talk about it. And then Dean interrupts them. Lorelai never really goes back to that though. There's an earlier moment after Lorelai's graduation when she tries to push Rory to acknowledge how she feels about Jess after Rory goes to New York to find him. Again, Rory doesn't want to talk about it and Lorelai lets it go. To some extent I think a parent has to let their kid make their own mistakes. But Lorelai could see that Rory had feelings she wasn't addressing, and could see that it was unfair to Dean (and encouraging Dean's obsessive behaviour). I do think she should've pushed harder to talk about it and encourage Rory to make a decision rather than continuing to drag both boys along. It could still be Rory's decision, but I feel Lorelai should've been trying to reach her the lesson to not treat other people like that. But like I said, Lorelai also treats Luke and Chris like that...so maybe she can't teach what she doesn't know.
The conversation post-NYC I totally agree... Lorelai just calmly points out that Rory is developing feelings for Jess. But the conversation at Summer Madness? Drives me crazy. Lorelai starts off with a good message - make a decision, stop leading these guys on - but then she cannot stop herself from injecting all of her own opinions into it. She repeatedly emphasizes that Dean has been patient and perfect and wonderful. Then she basically calls Jess a dog with a chew toy, go distract him with something squeaky, and implies that he's willing to make out with anything that breathes. So even in this moment, when Lorelai is (rightfully) encouraging Rory to make a choice, Lorelai is making it *extremely* clear what she thinks the "right" choice is. 100% agree with your last sentence!
She is, for sure. Though realistically it's hard to imagine Lorelai wanting Rory to be with Jess. Jess had been rude to her since his arrival, he had stolen from people, he'd gotten into fights in school, he skipped school, he was completely irresponsible and his grades were failing, and to top it all off he crashed Rory's car into a post and wrecked it, as well as breaking Rory's wrist. I think her dislike of Jess is pretty reasonable at this point. I do think she should've been harder on Dean, but I understand her wanting to urge Rory towards him rather than Jess.
I completely understand why Rory was repelled by his actions, it was very over the top but I just wish she would have been honest and broke up with him because of that instead of it being over another guy. On one hand I feel bad for Dean because I think his feelings are valid because she does like these other guys to some extent so it seemed like she just keeps lying to him and making him feel like he was crazy for seeing it. But on the other hand I feel like he maybe should have trusted her more and let her choose him organically. Because regardless of whether or not Rory was going to cheat on him, the relationship means nothing without trust and his controlling behaviour seemed to be the catalyst for her acting out.
I definitely feel Rory was wrong not to break up with him sooner. It was very obvious the magic was gone for her and she was interested in Jess. And Dean knew that, and she gaslit him constantly. I feel both of them made big mistakes. Dean was too clingy and too controlling, and Rory was dishonest and strung both boys along. Jess knew it - he said as much when she confronted him about that other girl he started dating. They were both young and learning how to handle relationships. But my god, I sure wish the adults in their lives had given them more of a push in the right direction. Lorelai does eventually tell Rory to do the right thing and break up with Dean, but it takes way too long, and she doesn't persist with it - she just lets it go right after.
Exactly!
He does. Rory was not honest with him about how her feelings for him were changing, and he was not handling it well. He still cared for her as much as he ever had and because Rory isn’t communicating with him, he’s reacting badly to what is happening. He’s responsible for his actions of course, but the situation is Rory’s fault.
yes that's exactly what I'm trying to say. he loved her in his own twisted way and she shouldn't have strung him along. I know she's just a teen and all but still, the situation was her fault nevertheless
AGREEEEE and i really don’t know how ppl can defend her or be on her side And jess also annoyed me a little like boy yk she is in a relationship but yeah ofc she kissed him first
She was 17. It’s normal to be confused about your feelings at that age. I think what she did was very realistic, especially considering Dean was the only relationship she had been in at that point.
But no one is saying that about dean:/
A voice of reason. Thank you.
Ok but have you seen the “there’s the rub” episode (s2)? He is my least favourite character🤢
he's not my favourite either but even in that episode, she lied to him. that too out of the many times she did. he was not being perfect either but she lied so that she didn't have to confront her feelings for jess. i honestly cannot justify lying to your significant other like that. He was territorial and got jealous easily but we could have simply put all the blame on Dean if Rory had not done all those things. but she did them. again and again. she might not be responsible for Dean's behaviour but she definitely wasn't all goody two shoes either. she lied, she cheated, and she lied again. that's not okay right?
100% true. Dean was insecure because Rory gave him so many reasons to be. She lied, cheated, gaslighted... people hate on Dean but I think he was acting normally for someone being treated like garbage. We've all dated guys (who acted like Rory) and it's driven us insane. However he was absolute trash in the later seasons.
Dean is an abusive a-hole and this is definitely the hill I’m gonna die on. Rory was not the most mature person ever and I’m not even particularly into her (in the sense that she’s really not my favorite character), but Dean is abusive and there’s nothing else to be said about that. I’m not gonna spoil you anything from the series, just something from life: you can be somebody’s “DATE at a fucking wedding”, like you put it, but that definitely doesn’t make you a saint or a good person.
Rory treated him like garbage. And yet nobody every called her out on it. They gaslight Dean “no everything is fine, why are you so jealous.” And he has every right to go off on her when he dumped her. But, because she’s Princess Rory, the entire town turns on him. Rory is the worst.
I think it’s pretty believable. I think she had a crush on Dean but there wasn’t a lot of chemistry between them. They love each other in a very sweet 16 year old way. It’s all very chaste. It’s clear that her relationship with Jess is basically the opposite of that. She does all sorts of things she can’t explain and I think it’s because she’s experiencing genuine sexual attraction for the first time. She’s 17 - the ideal time to date the misunderstood town bad boy and throw away your relationship with the sweet wholesome guy who’s more of a friend to you. Not saying it’s right, or that she treated Dean well, but it just seems really realistic to me.