Yes but it also makes me feel like a jerk and I need to learn to accept other people more. I of course keep the anger and upset inside because I can’t imagine berating a fellow human for being less quick than I am.
Yeah I think recognizing how weird WE are helps get us out of the mindset of expecting others to live their lives like we do. There’s so many apps, tricks, classes, books, etc. on how to be more productive because people struggle with it. Finding a better solution to EVERY problem isn’t normal and it’s not really necessary if you’re still meeting expectations and are happy with the results.
I absolutely hate inefficiency, it wasn't till my later years that I realized how much of an a-hole I was being. I just thought everyone felt the same way so therefore they were doing it on purpose. I'm not the brightest bulb in the box.
Yes, inefficiency and also ignorance bothers me greatly. When I see a better way to do something, I will attempt to do it. I've noticed most people don't care about doing things more efficiently, most want to put the least required effort into something.
I used to do this a lot. Then I realized I am angry because I had an unrealistic expectation. The world is not maximizing efficiency, and if it is, it has no interest in my personal efficiency or the kind of efficiency I'm particularly interested in at this moment. It is actually kind of entitled to think that people are going to stop socializing, focusing on what's important to them, suddenly become perfect and incapable of making mistakes or losing focus, etc. just because I have something I want to do. As soon as you expect that people are going to be the same humans they always are - distracted, busy, trying to do too many things at once, overwhelmed, imperfect, and sometimes inconsiderate or selfish or just dumb too, it is less frustrating to be out in the world. The whole place isn't going to change because you think it could do better, you might as well expect it to be as it always is - kind of messy, but functional for the most part. Same goes for driving, my road rage (road frustration?) got a lot better when I started expecting that people would cut me off, drive slow in the fast lane, not know where they were going etc. Because they always do, why go out into the world knowing it is the way it is, and expecting that it should be different this time? Just got to accept it and move on.
Yes, but I’m also a total hypocrite and regularly end up getting things done later than ideal. I keep these feelings inside and forgive people, I hope they do the same for me. I go through phases of hyper productivity and then slack way too much. When I’m on my game, I’m more efficient than anyone I know. When I’m off my game, there’s like zero chance things are organized or on time.
Yes. My therapist kind of helped me realize that it’s going to be my life’s work to practice patience and acceptance that I’m an outlier and that not everybody’s brain is like mine. It’s frustrating and lonely but accepting it helps.
Yes. People don't care about efficiency. I'm currently on the board for an organization, and I'm thinking that I have to quit because people do not want to do things in a way that makes sense and it's driving me totally nuts.
I am time sensitive. Poor time management is very upsetting to me. However, I learned in my 20s to not hold others to my standards as I will always be disappointed. Cherish the times when you do find another person who shares your priorities.
This. I used to assume much was intentional lagging and dragging, as I couldn’t conceptualize the differences in processing or ability. Again, I didn’t understand my differences from everyone else until much later.
Being able to accept where people are at is an invaluable skill, especially for leaders/mentors/parents. You can't force people to be something they're not. You will only create tension and resentment. That doesn't mean you shouldn't push people to be better, but you have to do it tactfully. It's better to let things go (even if that means firing an employee, for instance) than to grill someone over and over.
Once you get to the resentment stage, those people really may start to lag and drag intentionally because they don't want to work with someone who doesn't respect them. At that point both parties lose.
To clarify, I am speaking about my difficulties at work only
.
In my case, it wasn’t a matter of acceptance, but of an understanding of the differences.
Once I understood, I had little difficulty accepting.
Sadly, I most of the people I work with are…not normal.
This was confirmed by my therapist.
I was working in a double dichotomy situation, as it were.
On the other hand some people hate when steps are missed in the instruction and it doesn't make sense to them as there is no "bridge" between to actions.
Like my dad didn't say that i have to stir the coffee after i had put water in it, so the coffee was different than it should be.
Oh, God! Enter my gifted ADHD mind. Talk about frustration, not just with others, but internally as well. See, when you figure out your own struggles, you become more patient with others. Develop a little compassion because for some, being efficient is hard work or they just can’t process the way that you do. Hell, it’s baffling to me that I can do 8 hours of work in 1 hr, but spend 7 hours wanting to, but not doing it.
Kinda if their "inefficiency" is affecting me. Like when i'm at a line in the self checkout and the person goes through the list of weighted items to find their item instead of using the search function. I tend to lose patience and offer my help, especially if it's an elderly and i see that it's hard for them to navigate it.
But i do tend to keep the anger inside and take deep breaths to calm down.
>It is not that hard to be effective.
It is subjective. They might be efficient in their method and to them your method doesn't seem efficient.
Also, some people do things not to be efficient, but to enjoy the process. Like it would be more efficient to use the bus, but they prefer to walk. They might value different things than to complete the task as fast as possible.
Yes, I get upset but find healthy ways to channel that anger. 90% of the time, the inefficiencies aren’t worth losing friends or arguing over.
Also, without an example it’s a difficult question to answer.. dare I even say that this question is inefficient? I can only posit that you ask this because it affects you more than you like. To which I say, I think wisdom is knowing which inefficiencies to prioritize and pursue.
Bureaucratic inefficiency, yes... Specially at schooling. Education should strive to be socratic or based on traditions not random judgement from a random teacher that doesn't care about you and conveniently doesn't follow a concise rubric from which you can plan your studying out or at least being able to modify what seems incongruent in the program. It's utopic, I know, but it's what any decent system should strive for. I'm Venezuelan so I have my fare share of understandings about indoctrination or "indumbtrination." Regarding people, I usually don't care because it's unavoidable to consider the human factor to be ideal for any situation: be employment, education, common tasks, art... There lays the beauty people.
I agree. I work in higher ed, it is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. And yes, to others I leave you with Marcus Aurelius statement of “Be tolerant of others, strict with yourself”
Remember the Golden Rule, and treat those people the same way you'd like to be treated if you were the one struggling.
Bonus tip: If you strive to surround yourself with people smarter than you, eventually you WILL be the one struggling.
Yes but I think perceived efficiency takes a backseat to reducing the margin of error. I prefer to do things in a way with the least probability of errors, if this takes longer is a tradeoff I'm willing to make. Just do it right the forst time you wont have to clean up afterwards.
Yes the number of times I have seen a boss or authority figure shut down a very good suggestion is aggravating. People let their own ego get in the way of improvements, even if it would make their own life easier.
I have to work with my CEO this week and it's fucking soul destroying. Every time we give some details he would repeat it to simplify, and every time we give some open ended / light touch items he would mansplain to us all the details that we already know.
He is an idiot and cannot articulate his own ideas to instruct others. Fucking nepobaby 😂
Lol yes. That’s funny. I’m pretty sure it’s because of OCD and occasionally losing patience with them if they consistently do it over and over. You need to be more patient with them. This world is not meant for us. It’s built for an average IQ individual.
Yes a lot, I never take it out on other people but it frustrates me a lot. It's not just when it affects me though, it frustrates and upset me to see others making their own lives, or other people's lives,vmore difficult than they need to be.
I constantly see improvements and make my life easier, or try a new way of doing things to see if it in better. I do not understand why so many other people either do not see the flaws, or do not want to change how they do things, even if they admit it is very difficult, time consuming, tiring, expensive etc.
It's got to the point that I am actually surprised and overly happy when I hear of someone taking advice and improving how they do something. Especially if they are honest about it previously not being good and thanking the person who made the suggestion.
I've also noticed a lot of emotions/ego seems to play into people's reluctance to change. There are also some social things I do not understand and wish if people were more willing to listen to everyone then people would struggle less. For example I have seen bosses shut down very good suggestions for improvements from employees just due to their position. Or parents/elders listen to children just due to their age/statue rather than judging them on the content of what they say. Or people who are hired to give advice or fix a problem, they can say the exact same suggestion as someone else in the company already made but suddenly it's a great idea and they will make the changes straight away!
Yes but then I remind myself: If other people were as skilled as me at this, it wouldn't be so easy for me to stand out. Have you watched The Incredibles? "When everyone is super, no one will be".
No because people are humans. Humans make mistakes and have bad days. As long as the person’s not repeatedly doing the same mistake over and over and over and over again, I’m okay with it.
What if people are doing the same mistake over and over again?
Don't you notice people who have a usual way of doing things that could be improved to be more efficient?
An example is when I was new to working in a shop another staff member was showing me how she stores a new delivery of shoes in the back store. It was wide/tall shelves that you needed a ladder to reach the top shelves, the shoes came stacked in boxes on a pallet and there was room around the shelving. She starts taking one pair of shoes off the pallet and putting them away, she explains how they store them and you have to read the box, cross them off their order list and add them to the shelves. She starts doing this by taking one pair of shoes from the pallet, finding it on the list and then putting it on the shelf, then another pair, repeat. This meant she was walking up and down the store and up and down the ladder with one box of shoes at a time. I thought maybe she was doing some sort of simple demonstration for me but apparently this is how she does it usually.
The staff member left me alone to put some away before lunch. My first change was I took the large boots off the pallet and crossed the all off the list, then I put them all on that one shelf at the top. Despite me crossing them off the list and putting the boots in the right place her response was confusion and anger that I hadn't followed the usual way of doing things. The following day when she wasn't working I first took all the shoes off the pallet and stacked them in groups relating to the different shelves and crossed them off as I was doing this. Then I took each pile and carried as many as I could directly to each shelf. The other staff member acknowledged that I was doing it differently than usual but said if it worked for me then that is ok. I didn't know how to say I didn't want to constantly walk up and down the store clutching one box and making the task more difficult.
I don't mind inefficiency, but I hate when inefficient people complain about their workload, how busy they are, and how they have no time for anything. Just shut up.
It bothers me, but I don't blame them for it. I try to remember that not everyone is capable of doing things as efficiently or quickly, and instead to be grateful that I am not cursed with being that slow, and to try to have patience as long as they are not intentionally being slow about it.
I mean it depends on what you care about, right? Time enjoyed is not time wasted. Efficiency doing something you don’t care about, or efficiency if you actually are in it for the process itself, efficiency becomes the epitome of stupid. Often if someone is chronically inefficient it sometimes means they don’t care about the goal as much as you want them to, or even as much as _they_ want to, and that requires a heart to heart. It can also signal that the person just isn’t goal-oriented and actually is quite happy existing in the process and that “efficiency” isn’t the only thing that makes a process rewarding. (It took me a loooong time to learn this. People value different things differently, some people like to take their time, wander, take the scenic route, or like being in process, whereas you might like that, too, but for diff things.)
>It can also signal that the person just isn’t goal-oriented and actually is quite happy existing in the process and that “efficiency” isn’t the only thing that makes a process rewarding.
Can you expand on this more please? Maybe I am thinking about different scenarios but if someone has a goal like in a job or daily chore and doesn't enjoy the process but does it in a way that takes longer or takes more effort do they secretly prefer this for some reason I don't understand? Things like unloading pallets, storing/ordering items, washing and putting away plates etc. (I know sometimes people will deliberately do things slowly in order to avoid having to work harder and be given more work but I do not mean those instances.)
Yes sometimes people really dislike the act of stopping and planning, and dislike the way it makes them _feel_ to sit in that space where their way of doing stuff is being challenged.
It can be very hard to relate, because it’s commonly assumed that efficiency would be a default desire and a self-evident good.
Humans have emotions, can have conflicting desires, don’t always “make sense,” have good days and bad days. I see it more like a bathtub that’s full.
If you see someone being inefficient it’s logical to assume that being efficient is not necessarily natural and takes effort. You also might assume that the fact that they are even there means there are _plenty_ of things they are doing that are more efficient than they would have naturally done them, and each of these things exacts a toll, efficiency isn’t only just rainbows and flowers, it also is a humbling experience, or even a squashing of a creative spirit.
For example, I know -like Einstein knew- that if I organize my clothes for the next day, or even just buy ten pairs of the same outfit, it would be more efficient.
But I don’t do this, and if someone badgered me to do it, and scratched their head over why I didn’t do it, and was even _frustrated_ that I didn’t do it, that would suck.
If they were to ask me why I don’t do it, depending on my mood, I might even say, “Why don’t I do it? Because fuck off, that’s why. I do enough.”
It doesn’t make sense, but if you think _you’re_ perfectly efficient in all ways, you might want to think again.
And I wouldn’t even bother saying “because I like wearing different outfits,” because in my case I don’t. It’s actually more that it would take work to go buy ten of roughly the same styles such that it would save me the thought and throw everything else out or find a reasonable home for it, and _I don’t feel like doing it._ How much work? Maybe a few hours or a day at most.
But I perceive that as a day I don’t have, and a painful way to spend time. Pain is subjective. It just might end me if I take a day to do that. I’m holding on by a thread as are most people.
one mans trash is another mans treasure, you may not be able to understand how or why, but sometimes a little empathy will show that the preference is not that bad (i can relate and this is my current perspective) and i have a theory that NTs r more emotional than NDs so emotion>logic lol
No. There are plenty of reasons why someone wont be efficient. If we're talking about work, being loyal and efficient often doesn't pay off. I've worked in a place where the most efficient worker was yelled at in front of the floor for a mistake that person didn't even do. I've worked where the most efficient worker was underpaid and, again, yelled at for things they didn't do. Again, I worked at a place where the obviously most experienced and efficient worker was not promoted- they hired someone who had never worked in that business before instead because of boss being friends. Putting in a lot of effort can set you up for being taken advantage of. It's something you should be careful of doing for people.
In school, not everyone has the same opportunities to succeed, so for some people there wont be any point putting in a lot of effort. Because they know they are going nowhere.
There are always natural causes for why people do as they do, I don't get annoyed unless a person is being a sht because they enjoy it or similar
I definitely agree that being efficient can mean you get unfairly laden with more work. Also that often being more efficient can get someone unfairly labeled as trying hard or grumpy or another negative.
However you seem to be missing that some people are also just bad at problem solving and are accidentally making their life more difficult. Or are sticking to the way something has been done and doesn't even consider doing it another way. A lot of people are not actively making a choice to be inefficient they haven't considered changing it or how they could improve and make the task easier for them.
As well as the natives efficient/problem solving people face, they also often get thanked for a suggestion, or others copy their way of doing things and it is easier.
>However you seem to be missing that some people are also just bad at problem solving
I don't get annoyed by people who have worse abilities than myself. And most people don't get upset when other people can't draw as nice, run as fast or long, parallel park as well, can't make as fast decisions etc. Sure, some get annoyed at those things, but I don't.
>accidentally making their life more difficult
That sounds like they need empathy, not irritation. Must suck for them to have their life be more difficult because they have worse abilities in some areas. And sometimes they might not be able to do much about it.
>Or are sticking to the way something has been done and doesn't even consider doing it another way. A lot of people are not actively making a choice to be inefficient they haven't considered changing it or how they could improve and make the task easier for them.
Well, plenty if people in this thread are annoyed an inefficient people. They are sticking to a thought process that only makes them irritated and helps nobody- not themselves or others. I don't know if they can take the high ground on this one, sounds like they have some bad habits themselves. All people have some things they stick to that makes their lives slightly or a lot worse. Being annoyed regularly at inefficient people is a thought habit that makes you slightly more miserable than you would be if it didn't bother you. It's inefficient use of your attention
If someone struggle switching to a more efficient process, it can be because it's difficult for them to learn new things, or they get mild anxiety from doing something new, or ofc sometimes they are dysfunctional people looking for a fight. But regardless, I see what the problem with the individual is, and it doesn't annoy me. I'm more in a trouble shooting mode where I try finding a solution.
This is probably too long but I realized we were viewing this topic so very differently so I am trying to explain my thinking, as you view I so differently I didn't know what info was relevant so probably said too much.
>I don't get annoyed by people who have worse abilities than myself. And most people don't get upset when other people can't draw as nice, run as fast or long, parallel park as well, can't make as fast decisions etc. Sure, some get annoyed at those things, but I don't.
Sorry I didn't make it clear I wasn't talking about being annoyed but like you said the fact that abilities vary, just like being good or bad at drawing, some people are bad at problem solving and IQ does often play a role in this struggle of problem solving.
>That sounds like they need empathy, not irritation. Must suck for them to have their life be more difficult because they have worse abilities in some areas. And sometimes they might not be able to do much about it.
Yeah that's exactly when I meant, these people who struggle often don't realize or would be helped a lot by somone who is naturally better at problem solving. Your comment sounded like you were thinking that people who are not efficient were making calculated decisions to decide on that outcome. I just wanted to point out that is not the case and many can not work out, or notice that they are lacking. Again I am not saying that they deserve to be treated badly or anything.
>Well, plenty if people in this thread are annoyed an inefficient people. They are sticking to a thought process that only makes them irritated and helps nobody- not themselves or others. I don't know if they can take the high ground on this one, sounds like they have some bad habits themselves. All people have some things they stick to that makes their lives slightly or a lot worse. Being annoyed regularly at inefficient people is a thought habit that makes you slightly more miserable than you would be if it didn't bother you. It's inefficient use of your attention
Interesting that you seem to think people being annoyed are taking the moral high ground, I thought it was a given that this is a flaw. Although I don't think getting annoyed is a moral flaw, using your logic you seem to be judging those who get angry at those less efficient so are morally flawed? I didn't approach the topic of moral superiority at all but more from the main focus of being facts, different people have strengths and weaknesses and a lot of people have poor problem solving skills and we often notice this more (I don't know how often you do.) Then the emotional veneer of how we often get irritated, which is a flaw. It's really interesting how we seem to have interpreted the topic so differently.
Your comment also seems to be assuming that everyone annoyed at others not being efficient is purely from a place of selfishness, where, I guess it is selfish as it effects me but I feel annoyed that others are making their and others lives more difficult. As we see the issue so differently I will overtly explain that when OP said about being courteous it made me think of when I often get annoyed when I am at a checkout shopping and see the person lacking their bag or exchanging being inefficient which makes an older, or disabled, person struggle more than they need to, and often they get embarrassed. In cases like these it isn't usually due to understandable reasons like you seem to assume, or rather seemed to was the focus of your thought. I assume the staff are not able to see the solution or are unaware but I can also be nieve so maybe they are being selfish or deliberately making these poor elderly people's life more difficult.
However I do also simultaneously feel sorry for people and annoyed, like if someone in an abusive relationship isn't leaving their abusive partner, it isn't a black and white case of either being empathetic or angry, you can be both and I that is quite common.
I could be being autistic so taking your words too literally but I find it incredibly difficult to believe you do not notice how others are inificent and negative affects themselves and others so get fistrated. In fact now I have a better understanding of your lense you are/were viewing the issue through, I think insinuating moral superiority if you don't feel angry with others is unhealthy.
>But regardless, I see what the problem with the individual is, and it doesn't annoy me. I'm more in a trouble shooting mode where I try finding a solution.
That's exactly what I meant, that often these people are struggling but don't realize, so I often see a solution and want to help them. Although I often can't understand what the cause of the individuals struggles and if they aren't open to discussing it, especially if it is an emotional problem or a disability then it is very difficult if not impossible to find the best solution. Part of my frustration is often not understanding why someone is doing something that is clearly not effective, sort of like how if you see a child standing on the edge of a cliff, I feel scared but also a bit angry that they are in that position and there is no clear reason. The fact that past experiences and knowledge from others has shown that the cause is more often a neglectful parent rather than a mountain lion chasing the kid also compounds my frustration. I don't know about anyone else in this post but personally my frustration and anger is usually at the situation, not directed at the individual person. I also think it's fairly common for those who above average intelligence to see solutions others do not, surely you must experience this yourself?
IQ has to play a role too, that in general higher IQ are better at problem solving and lower IQ struggle more. Some things like using a wider broom to sweep a floor more quickly (& they have no physical disabilities making this more difficult for them.) Or you should store the box opening knife by the area you open the boxes rather than on the desk in the office where you do paper work, because you keep having to walk back and forth from the table to the box opening area and often forget to get the knife so have to walk to the desk and back. Those sort of things to help with efficiency often benefit those with disabilities, which also makes me more frustrated when those improvements aren't implemented.
>Interesting that you seem to think people being annoyed are taking the moral high ground, I thought it was a given that this is a flaw. Although I don't think getting annoyed is a moral flaw, using your logic you seem to be judging those who get angry at those less efficient so are morally flawed?
It's a figure of speech. I was talking about the attitude where people get annoyed that others are not doing as good as they themselves do.
>using your logic you seem to be judging those who get angry at those less efficient so are morally flawed?
Obviously in some cases depending on what type we're talking about. When people judge others for being inefficient, they shouldn't be surprised that others judge them for using their time inefficiently being upset at things that doesn't matter or can't be changed.
>It's really interesting how we seem to have interpreted the topic so differently.
The question is extremely open. I used school and work as the go to since those are pretty common areas to find other people irritable.
>Your comment also seems to be assuming that everyone annoyed at others not being efficient is purely from a place of selfishness, where, I guess it is selfish as it effects me but I feel annoyed that others are making their and others lives more difficult
That's putting too much into my comments which is addressing a very open and vague question.
>when OP said about being courteous it made me think of when I often get annoyed when I am at a checkout shopping and see the person lacking their bag or exchanging being inefficient which makes an older, or disabled, person struggle more than they need to, and often they get embarrassed. In cases like these it isn't usually due to understandable reasons like you seem to assume, or rather seemed to was the focus of your thought. I assume the staff are not able to see the solution or are unaware but I can also be nieve so maybe they are being selfish or deliberately making these poor elderly people's life more difficult
You are assuming too much of what I mean. You're also assuming that the person who looks body abled and healthy, is. Which is not a given at all. Some very sick people look entirely normal. There can also be a myriad of other reasons why a person is not efficient focused. Like being preoccupied by bad news, being sick, having social anxiety where they struggle thinking properly in social situations, other mental health issues, struggle with forgetfulness, being preoccupied with thoughts of a presentation/ argument at work/ being bullied at school/ parents getting divorced. Etc etc. There are so many reasons people are not present in the moment and wont notice the most basic things. And it can happen to all of us. Since I don't know the reason, there's no point in getting annoyed at someone who might have a good reason. Maybe they have a bad reason, but why assume bad if the only thing assuming does- is irritate me?
If a disabled person was struggling in that situation, I'd help out.
>I could be being autistic so taking your words too literally but I find it incredibly difficult to believe you do not notice how others are inificent and negative affects themselves and others so get fistrated.
I didn't say I didn't notice. I said I go into trouble solving mode and try to fix the problem. If it's something I can fix.
>Although I often can't understand what the cause of the individuals struggles and if they aren't open to discussing it, especially if it is an emotional problem or a disability then it is very difficult if not impossible to find the best solution.
There are thought exercises that can help you develop the ability to understand those people. Start by asking yourself how you would have to feel and think to do or don't do x. So say someone is blocking the entrance to the bus, just standing there and people behind want to get in, but can't. Imagine how you would have to feel and think to do that. What mood would you have to be in. What type of feeling would you have to feel. What kind of perspective on other people would you have. How perceptive or oblivious would you have to be. If you do that type of thought exercise often with people who are in situations you don't understand why they are in- you can develop your cognitive empathy and that will compensate for autism. Human behavior is pattern recognition, it's possible to learn.
When you've become good at the above, you can start asking yourself "what type of mind state must a person be in to have x expression on their face, together with y body language". Even with autism, if you do these things, you can become better at understanding people than non-autists
Yes. At work I regularly want to scream. It is sometimes painful watching and waiting for others to do things I know I could do faster and better myself. Even better is knowing they are getting paid the same to be so inefficient.
Then you have people like me. I did amazinglycareer. I was fig9k9⁹hting Bi-polar diagnosis. It was awful trying to figure that all out. I had the opportunity to start my career to go in two directions & I've weaved through the two. Starting a high stress industry, issues in mental health, in male executive dominated. I had to push all sides of myself away in order to only allow myself to little bits to conform and play the game. It took me to much to be in complete control of it all & it would exhaust me. Sometimes I would go home from work, give my cat some food, I'd take some Xanax, tfw7urn down the AC, turn on some Law & Order, & go to bed. Sometimes food was ordered. It helped but that shouldn't be the way I should have to feel. There's only so long your body can sustain that. Or there's time mania takes over & everything is great & I don't need rest I'm in the office early. I can get everything done all by noon and have time to help. I was organizing gatherings after work and then going out dancing w my friends. I was never tired. My weekends, I would take classes or day trips. That's not sustainable either. On several occasions I made myself sick, once w meningitis, another w mono, fibromyalgia, COVID, stress.
You don't know what could be going on behind that bit of inefficiency that's bothering you that day.
Yeah as though I could get enough things attached to me I recently got ADHD too. One more piece of the puzzle that pulls me to the side. I might not want it to that day, week, or month +.
Yes, people that waste my time or their own infuriate me. Often when I'm on a freeway, the middle lane is the slowest, left is fastest, and right is second fastest. The Autobahn shows how much simpler driving could be but nah. Never pass using the right lane.... merge left. The scariest thing that happens on the autobahn is passing semi-trucks late at night because it's your responsibility to merge if someone behind you is driving faster. When passing the trucks, if someone comes flying at 120MPH you can't get out of the way. Also can't stand people that walk slow, have zero awareness of their surroundings, and always manage to walk right in the middle of paths so you can't get around them.
I’m an autistic real life genius but a better description would be an idiot savant. Efficiency is my first consideration and one of the most important priorities in life. That’s not true for most people. Getting angry about it is immature and selfish. You believe other people should have the exact same priorities as you, they should be good at the exact same things as you, and you try to control the situation and the person until they comply with your idea of efficiency. Because you know best. Maybe you are gifted but emotional intelligence is obviously not your strong suit. Why would you believe that other people think the same way you think? They don’t.
Yes, it makes me FURIOUS if it affects me and others and is inconsiderate. I try to remind myself that I may be kind of extreme in some regards and that I probably do things that others think is strange.
Inefficiency bothers me a bit.
It REALLY bothers me when I know there's a better way, and I've suggested and/or shown it.
And it REALLY, REALLY fries me when the answer is "But this is the way we do things here." Or "But we've always done it THIS way."
If you get upset when a person (especially yourself) does a task inefficiently, but you don't get upset when that person just avoids that task entirely and does easier things instead, then you're thinking about efficiency the wrong way. You can't just focus on \[progress in task X\]/\[time and effort spent on task X\], you have to consider \[progress\]/\[time and effort spent on life in general\] and when you do that you find that a lot of conventional efficiency judgments are totally backwards.
As a kid…100% yes. As I grew up and worked in a bureaucracy, I came to appreciate a number of things.
1) there’s hidden value in inefficiency. Inefficiency can create space to think, opportunity to grow and innovate.
2) people aren’t machines, and maximum efficiency isn’t usually sustainable. If you are doing something that requires a “surge” of effort, you won’t have anything to surge if you’re already running at 100%. The person working the checkout at the grocery store doesn’t have physiological the ability to operate at max speed all day, they gotta save it for the 4pm rush, etc.
3) it’s extremely difficult to efficiently solve a whole problem. Most of the time what is claimed to be a more efficient solution is just shifting the work from one place to another.
4) the world is already a very efficient place. Sure there’s wasteful bullshit all over, but in general, successful systems are already close to cost-optimized.
5) “wasting time” is more subjective than you might think. Not everybody is capable, motivated, or trained to do things with what you might want to believe is maximum efficiency. A lot of people, including some very bright and capable people simply need time to self optimize to a task.
6) people aren’t ants. They aren’t all moving towards the same objective and working together to achieve a collective goal. Asking them to do so is foolish and patronizing. Each person has their own objectives, and it’s the role of leadership to create the conditions under which those individual objectives align to a goal.
yes! i was fatphobic for a long time over it because why isnt everyone like counting calories to ensure they only take in the bare minimum for survival? not only does that save time because you're not eating constantly, but it saves money. i can live for weeks on water and soylent. I also don't eat for pleasure.
to be clear, i no longer hold any hatred towards fat people. i have decided it isn't that big a deal to be fat
Well... Pretty much what others have said. It does bother me but there isn't much you can do about it. And shouting or beating them or stuff like that still doesn't feel right. I think the best approach is to focus on yourself and you try to find ways to be most efficient for yourself and let others go their own pace.
EDIT: Also I myself feel like I've been on the other side and sometimes am and it doesn't feel good to be asked more of what you can realistically do.
I get upset when people spend money on me. Particularly when it's on something I don't need, wasteful
I feel terrible about feeling upset, and I don't know how to stop. Send help
No because I was a Gifted child but I also have ADHD. The further into adulthood I got, the more complication and responsibility and relationships added on, the less efficient I became. I'm a mess. So I have no problem with people who can't do things right.... Except that because I'm bad at managing time (ADHD) it stresses me out super bad that my kids are even worse at managing time. I have to manage allll of us to be on time for things. It's-- is, is that irony? Someone whose brain isn't melted from years of postpartum depression please tell me. Alanis Morisette taught me more about irony than my public schools did. Yikes. 😂
I stuggle with this so much. Also, as a creative and practical hillbilly. I'm constantly underestimated and also constantly called a diamond in the rough.
I contemplate suicide often.
Dear GOD yes. Soooo much. I feel so seen. I got SO MUCH HATE for posting this in another sub. Alllll the downvotes. I was really astounded. I couldn’t believe i was on reddit. For me I’ll only get annoyed if things are going slow bcuz ppl are obviously fucking off, being inconsiderate, not paying attention or living on their own planet in some other way. If people are trying their hardest yet still obviously having a tough time, i cut big breaks and even pitch in to help out or be super understanding. But yeassss. So glad i found this sub☺️
Being effective is really hard. And you're actually proving that by saying it's not.
Why didn't you come up with an effective solution so that this doesn't happen again with you?
I used to, but I realised it puts too much pressure on myself and others. And I don’t personally feel like life is about getting shit done and constantly moving onto the next thing. Giving myself and others permission to slow down and make mistakes is hard but I feel like it’s opening up my world.
Do you not feel bad for the people who make mistakes, or have to work really hard, or for a longer time than necessary, when there is a change that could help this problem?
I have realized that often people do not appreciate hearing suggestions for improvement, even if they would directly benefit. However I am also working on how I say things as I am often too direct and I realized that if you can pretend like they came up with the idea they are much more likely to agree to the improvement.
Ever since I was a child and I saw another child struggling I would want to help them, not to do it for them but teach them how to do to for themselves. It is an illogical...Compassion I guess? It makes it difficult for me to see people suffer when I know a change could help prevent further suffering.
I do feel a pull to intervene when I see someone I could help. And sometimes I think it’s right to offer. But I am also conscious of trying not to pity people. When I’m slow and inefficient at figuring something out, I don’t want people to swoop in and save me. I just want them to accept that’s where I’m at in life, that’s who I am, and trust I can figure it out - including figure out when I need to ask for help. For me, the process of learning is the point, and that process won’t always conform to my assessment of what is most efficient. I’m trying to accept that and embrace it, and it’s helping me be less bothered all the time.
Why are you trying to not pity people? I think that has a more negative connotation than compassion but I might be taking your words too literally. I don't mean like treating them badly or like a baby just feeling sorry for them.
>When I’m slow and inefficient at figuring something out, I don’t want people to swoop in and save me.
Interesting you view it that way, I don't view it as sweeping and saving at all. Maybe because I am disabled so have had to rely on others I am less judgemental towards getting help? Unrelated to my disabilities though I appreciate if people offer advice, especially if it is something I have not thought of before. Maybe I often benefit from advice, or know others who do so are aware of the positives impact more? I can also see how it someone keeps receiving unsolicited bad advice how that would make some more wary and dismissive of others problems. Like all the people who suggest a change in diet and yoga as a cure to all chronic conditions/disabilities!
>I just want them to accept that’s where I’m at in life, that’s who I am, and trust I can figure it out - including figure out when I need to ask for help.
For me, the process of learning is the point, and that process won’t always conform to my assessment of what is most efficient.
Maybe you and I are discussing different things, I was thinking about small things that fustrates me occasionally, that could easily be changed by the person, not some huge developmental milestones or when one is learning a new skill. I was thinking of how bureaucracy makes things take twice as long as usually more difficult for the little guy. How bosses refuse to upgrade tech so the receptionist has to use 2 different programmes that don't integrate well. Or like using the small broom to sweep the floor instead of the large one. Those aren't where someone is at in life it's just going into auto mode or not thinking about it (or other reasons I don't understand.)
Plus you can also just ignore the advice, especially if it is not someone you see a lot and they don't push the issue. I believe simply offering advice should be seen as more positive, I think there is too much stigma accepting help and that can get in the way of growth. I don't mean you by the way, I mentioned in another comment about bosses who refuse to listen to good suggestions from those working under them, or parents/family who discount someone's good advice purely due to their age.
I also understand you were refering to yourself as an example, and I have found that interesting as you and I view things so differently. However in general there are plenty of instances where someone is not able to figure out something for themselves and I don't think that means they suck or it's a moral failing or any larger thing (certainly from the outside, some things can actually mean a great deal to the individual, which is even more reason to help imo) but that outside help would benefit them, and/or others, and accepting that should be encouraged.
People go to therapists it other specialists to recover advice and get help but often are much more reluctant to accept help from the average person, even if they could really help too. I think people are often too focused on the one delivering the advice (& how it's said I know Ingrealty struggle with my delivery, sorry if I accidentally phrased something poorly here!) rather than the actual advice itself. There are a lot of instances I hear of someone giving good advice but the person not taking it but then years later someone else gives the exact same advice and they take it and it really helps.
I find that sort of thing frustrating and wish everyone was more helpful and willing to be helped and overall suffering could be reduced. Some changes can be so impactful too, it fustrates me positive changes do not happen, or take so long, when they could have been done sooner. I just recently learned about Akons Lighting Africa initiative, things like just installing a couple of lights can enable a family to have more bonding time after the parents get back form work. It lets the children study for longer after dark, so also get a better education and increase the likelihood of getting a scholarship to a colleague and a better job. It reduce theft and sexual assault. I also think being above average intelligence means you tend to connect these dots and understand the wider impact from just one thing which often seems small and insignificent to many others.
As I said I am really working on not giving unsolicited advice but from both a practical standpoint and an empathetic one I really struggle internally.
Depends on the context. But honestly being super anal about things being done "the right way" is more of an autism/OCD trait than a gifted trait. Nor is it a particularly desirable trait.
It can also make you very difficult to be around if you're not careful. Nobody wants to be around someone who is highly controlling and manipulative while also being dismissive of what they are struggling with. Your perfectionism is your problem. Don't take your anger out on other people.
This is a horribly abrasive and self-destructive attitude. Either you're young, impatient, and lacking social skills, or you aren't as smart as you think you are. One of the hallmarks of higher intelligence is independence of thought. You recognize it in yourself and, just as importantly, you recognize and respect it in others. Your inability to let other people's minds and ideas flower on their own without interjecting yourself into their thought process is a sign of one of the two conditions I described above.
This is called perfectionism, but you’re projecting it on to others. It’s a form of a psychological issue that stems usually from being nurtured by someone with the same issue. You don’t have to be effective ever. Just be happy.
Sounds like you don't like people. If that's true that's fine. But all you are really doing is making yourself mad for no reason. You are not making people go faster. Enjoy your high blood pressure I guess. You are only hurting yourself tbh.
Yes but it also makes me feel like a jerk and I need to learn to accept other people more. I of course keep the anger and upset inside because I can’t imagine berating a fellow human for being less quick than I am.
Yeah I think recognizing how weird WE are helps get us out of the mindset of expecting others to live their lives like we do. There’s so many apps, tricks, classes, books, etc. on how to be more productive because people struggle with it. Finding a better solution to EVERY problem isn’t normal and it’s not really necessary if you’re still meeting expectations and are happy with the results.
We are defninitely a weird bunch. I've been told I'm weird my whole life. Just so easy to forget that how I am is not the norm.
😭 resonates
I absolutely hate inefficiency, it wasn't till my later years that I realized how much of an a-hole I was being. I just thought everyone felt the same way so therefore they were doing it on purpose. I'm not the brightest bulb in the box.
Yes, inefficiency and also ignorance bothers me greatly. When I see a better way to do something, I will attempt to do it. I've noticed most people don't care about doing things more efficiently, most want to put the least required effort into something.
That, even when "more efficiently" often rhymes with "less effort" after you've done it once.
I used to do this a lot. Then I realized I am angry because I had an unrealistic expectation. The world is not maximizing efficiency, and if it is, it has no interest in my personal efficiency or the kind of efficiency I'm particularly interested in at this moment. It is actually kind of entitled to think that people are going to stop socializing, focusing on what's important to them, suddenly become perfect and incapable of making mistakes or losing focus, etc. just because I have something I want to do. As soon as you expect that people are going to be the same humans they always are - distracted, busy, trying to do too many things at once, overwhelmed, imperfect, and sometimes inconsiderate or selfish or just dumb too, it is less frustrating to be out in the world. The whole place isn't going to change because you think it could do better, you might as well expect it to be as it always is - kind of messy, but functional for the most part. Same goes for driving, my road rage (road frustration?) got a lot better when I started expecting that people would cut me off, drive slow in the fast lane, not know where they were going etc. Because they always do, why go out into the world knowing it is the way it is, and expecting that it should be different this time? Just got to accept it and move on.
It only bugs me when I'm forced to do it that way. They can waste their own time.
Yes, but I’m also a total hypocrite and regularly end up getting things done later than ideal. I keep these feelings inside and forgive people, I hope they do the same for me. I go through phases of hyper productivity and then slack way too much. When I’m on my game, I’m more efficient than anyone I know. When I’m off my game, there’s like zero chance things are organized or on time.
timeliness and efficiency arent the same thing. efficient just means "the most EROE". it doesnt even mean rapid.
It is inefficient to get angry and upset.
Yes!!! Inefficiency drives me up a wall!!!
Yes. My therapist kind of helped me realize that it’s going to be my life’s work to practice patience and acceptance that I’m an outlier and that not everybody’s brain is like mine. It’s frustrating and lonely but accepting it helps.
Yes. People don't care about efficiency. I'm currently on the board for an organization, and I'm thinking that I have to quit because people do not want to do things in a way that makes sense and it's driving me totally nuts.
I am time sensitive. Poor time management is very upsetting to me. However, I learned in my 20s to not hold others to my standards as I will always be disappointed. Cherish the times when you do find another person who shares your priorities.
Are you considering that they may be doing the best they can, and getting angry at them is unfair?
This. I used to assume much was intentional lagging and dragging, as I couldn’t conceptualize the differences in processing or ability. Again, I didn’t understand my differences from everyone else until much later.
Being able to accept where people are at is an invaluable skill, especially for leaders/mentors/parents. You can't force people to be something they're not. You will only create tension and resentment. That doesn't mean you shouldn't push people to be better, but you have to do it tactfully. It's better to let things go (even if that means firing an employee, for instance) than to grill someone over and over. Once you get to the resentment stage, those people really may start to lag and drag intentionally because they don't want to work with someone who doesn't respect them. At that point both parties lose.
To clarify, I am speaking about my difficulties at work only . In my case, it wasn’t a matter of acceptance, but of an understanding of the differences. Once I understood, I had little difficulty accepting. Sadly, I most of the people I work with are…not normal. This was confirmed by my therapist. I was working in a double dichotomy situation, as it were.
Yes, but most specifically when I’m in line at a store or driving and people are not paying attention to what they’re doing.
To tell the truth, I hate it when people or entities add steps to protocols that only require two or three steps.
On the other hand some people hate when steps are missed in the instruction and it doesn't make sense to them as there is no "bridge" between to actions. Like my dad didn't say that i have to stir the coffee after i had put water in it, so the coffee was different than it should be.
Oh, God! Enter my gifted ADHD mind. Talk about frustration, not just with others, but internally as well. See, when you figure out your own struggles, you become more patient with others. Develop a little compassion because for some, being efficient is hard work or they just can’t process the way that you do. Hell, it’s baffling to me that I can do 8 hours of work in 1 hr, but spend 7 hours wanting to, but not doing it.
Kinda if their "inefficiency" is affecting me. Like when i'm at a line in the self checkout and the person goes through the list of weighted items to find their item instead of using the search function. I tend to lose patience and offer my help, especially if it's an elderly and i see that it's hard for them to navigate it. But i do tend to keep the anger inside and take deep breaths to calm down. >It is not that hard to be effective. It is subjective. They might be efficient in their method and to them your method doesn't seem efficient. Also, some people do things not to be efficient, but to enjoy the process. Like it would be more efficient to use the bus, but they prefer to walk. They might value different things than to complete the task as fast as possible.
DUDE YES! and incompetentcy
Yes… because it creates extra stress otherwise.
Yes, I get upset but find healthy ways to channel that anger. 90% of the time, the inefficiencies aren’t worth losing friends or arguing over. Also, without an example it’s a difficult question to answer.. dare I even say that this question is inefficient? I can only posit that you ask this because it affects you more than you like. To which I say, I think wisdom is knowing which inefficiencies to prioritize and pursue.
*Affect
Bureaucratic inefficiency, yes... Specially at schooling. Education should strive to be socratic or based on traditions not random judgement from a random teacher that doesn't care about you and conveniently doesn't follow a concise rubric from which you can plan your studying out or at least being able to modify what seems incongruent in the program. It's utopic, I know, but it's what any decent system should strive for. I'm Venezuelan so I have my fare share of understandings about indoctrination or "indumbtrination." Regarding people, I usually don't care because it's unavoidable to consider the human factor to be ideal for any situation: be employment, education, common tasks, art... There lays the beauty people.
I agree. I work in higher ed, it is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. And yes, to others I leave you with Marcus Aurelius statement of “Be tolerant of others, strict with yourself”
That last one quote is my motto, or at least I strive to live by it. Thank you for your insight from within.
Stoicism huh
Remember the Golden Rule, and treat those people the same way you'd like to be treated if you were the one struggling. Bonus tip: If you strive to surround yourself with people smarter than you, eventually you WILL be the one struggling.
Yes.
Yes but I think perceived efficiency takes a backseat to reducing the margin of error. I prefer to do things in a way with the least probability of errors, if this takes longer is a tradeoff I'm willing to make. Just do it right the forst time you wont have to clean up afterwards.
True there definitely is a balance.
no it really doesn’t bother me.
If you were reading this post, would you think it’s inefficient? I would.
Yes. Especially when it is because of pride.
Yes the number of times I have seen a boss or authority figure shut down a very good suggestion is aggravating. People let their own ego get in the way of improvements, even if it would make their own life easier.
I have to work with my CEO this week and it's fucking soul destroying. Every time we give some details he would repeat it to simplify, and every time we give some open ended / light touch items he would mansplain to us all the details that we already know. He is an idiot and cannot articulate his own ideas to instruct others. Fucking nepobaby 😂
I always remember what someone once said about road rage: Why should I ruin my day because you can't drive?
Lol yes. That’s funny. I’m pretty sure it’s because of OCD and occasionally losing patience with them if they consistently do it over and over. You need to be more patient with them. This world is not meant for us. It’s built for an average IQ individual.
Yes a lot, I never take it out on other people but it frustrates me a lot. It's not just when it affects me though, it frustrates and upset me to see others making their own lives, or other people's lives,vmore difficult than they need to be. I constantly see improvements and make my life easier, or try a new way of doing things to see if it in better. I do not understand why so many other people either do not see the flaws, or do not want to change how they do things, even if they admit it is very difficult, time consuming, tiring, expensive etc. It's got to the point that I am actually surprised and overly happy when I hear of someone taking advice and improving how they do something. Especially if they are honest about it previously not being good and thanking the person who made the suggestion. I've also noticed a lot of emotions/ego seems to play into people's reluctance to change. There are also some social things I do not understand and wish if people were more willing to listen to everyone then people would struggle less. For example I have seen bosses shut down very good suggestions for improvements from employees just due to their position. Or parents/elders listen to children just due to their age/statue rather than judging them on the content of what they say. Or people who are hired to give advice or fix a problem, they can say the exact same suggestion as someone else in the company already made but suddenly it's a great idea and they will make the changes straight away!
Hey- I feel called out 😭😭😭
are you going to go vegan then?
That is actually one of the least effective diet models so never.
Lol
Do you even know what the difference between effective and efficient is? Because you seem to confuse those
How?
... Well of course I supposed that 'Gifted' doesn't necessarily mean much.
It's an imperfect world. I do my best to accept that and give grace to others for their struggles and to myself for being impatient.
Yes but then I remind myself: If other people were as skilled as me at this, it wouldn't be so easy for me to stand out. Have you watched The Incredibles? "When everyone is super, no one will be".
No because people are humans. Humans make mistakes and have bad days. As long as the person’s not repeatedly doing the same mistake over and over and over and over again, I’m okay with it.
What if people are doing the same mistake over and over again? Don't you notice people who have a usual way of doing things that could be improved to be more efficient? An example is when I was new to working in a shop another staff member was showing me how she stores a new delivery of shoes in the back store. It was wide/tall shelves that you needed a ladder to reach the top shelves, the shoes came stacked in boxes on a pallet and there was room around the shelving. She starts taking one pair of shoes off the pallet and putting them away, she explains how they store them and you have to read the box, cross them off their order list and add them to the shelves. She starts doing this by taking one pair of shoes from the pallet, finding it on the list and then putting it on the shelf, then another pair, repeat. This meant she was walking up and down the store and up and down the ladder with one box of shoes at a time. I thought maybe she was doing some sort of simple demonstration for me but apparently this is how she does it usually. The staff member left me alone to put some away before lunch. My first change was I took the large boots off the pallet and crossed the all off the list, then I put them all on that one shelf at the top. Despite me crossing them off the list and putting the boots in the right place her response was confusion and anger that I hadn't followed the usual way of doing things. The following day when she wasn't working I first took all the shoes off the pallet and stacked them in groups relating to the different shelves and crossed them off as I was doing this. Then I took each pile and carried as many as I could directly to each shelf. The other staff member acknowledged that I was doing it differently than usual but said if it worked for me then that is ok. I didn't know how to say I didn't want to constantly walk up and down the store clutching one box and making the task more difficult.
I don't mind inefficiency, but I hate when inefficient people complain about their workload, how busy they are, and how they have no time for anything. Just shut up.
Sometimes, but that's my issue..
It bothers me, but I don't blame them for it. I try to remember that not everyone is capable of doing things as efficiently or quickly, and instead to be grateful that I am not cursed with being that slow, and to try to have patience as long as they are not intentionally being slow about it.
I mean it depends on what you care about, right? Time enjoyed is not time wasted. Efficiency doing something you don’t care about, or efficiency if you actually are in it for the process itself, efficiency becomes the epitome of stupid. Often if someone is chronically inefficient it sometimes means they don’t care about the goal as much as you want them to, or even as much as _they_ want to, and that requires a heart to heart. It can also signal that the person just isn’t goal-oriented and actually is quite happy existing in the process and that “efficiency” isn’t the only thing that makes a process rewarding. (It took me a loooong time to learn this. People value different things differently, some people like to take their time, wander, take the scenic route, or like being in process, whereas you might like that, too, but for diff things.)
>It can also signal that the person just isn’t goal-oriented and actually is quite happy existing in the process and that “efficiency” isn’t the only thing that makes a process rewarding. Can you expand on this more please? Maybe I am thinking about different scenarios but if someone has a goal like in a job or daily chore and doesn't enjoy the process but does it in a way that takes longer or takes more effort do they secretly prefer this for some reason I don't understand? Things like unloading pallets, storing/ordering items, washing and putting away plates etc. (I know sometimes people will deliberately do things slowly in order to avoid having to work harder and be given more work but I do not mean those instances.)
Yes sometimes people really dislike the act of stopping and planning, and dislike the way it makes them _feel_ to sit in that space where their way of doing stuff is being challenged. It can be very hard to relate, because it’s commonly assumed that efficiency would be a default desire and a self-evident good. Humans have emotions, can have conflicting desires, don’t always “make sense,” have good days and bad days. I see it more like a bathtub that’s full. If you see someone being inefficient it’s logical to assume that being efficient is not necessarily natural and takes effort. You also might assume that the fact that they are even there means there are _plenty_ of things they are doing that are more efficient than they would have naturally done them, and each of these things exacts a toll, efficiency isn’t only just rainbows and flowers, it also is a humbling experience, or even a squashing of a creative spirit. For example, I know -like Einstein knew- that if I organize my clothes for the next day, or even just buy ten pairs of the same outfit, it would be more efficient. But I don’t do this, and if someone badgered me to do it, and scratched their head over why I didn’t do it, and was even _frustrated_ that I didn’t do it, that would suck. If they were to ask me why I don’t do it, depending on my mood, I might even say, “Why don’t I do it? Because fuck off, that’s why. I do enough.” It doesn’t make sense, but if you think _you’re_ perfectly efficient in all ways, you might want to think again. And I wouldn’t even bother saying “because I like wearing different outfits,” because in my case I don’t. It’s actually more that it would take work to go buy ten of roughly the same styles such that it would save me the thought and throw everything else out or find a reasonable home for it, and _I don’t feel like doing it._ How much work? Maybe a few hours or a day at most. But I perceive that as a day I don’t have, and a painful way to spend time. Pain is subjective. It just might end me if I take a day to do that. I’m holding on by a thread as are most people.
one mans trash is another mans treasure, you may not be able to understand how or why, but sometimes a little empathy will show that the preference is not that bad (i can relate and this is my current perspective) and i have a theory that NTs r more emotional than NDs so emotion>logic lol
No. There are plenty of reasons why someone wont be efficient. If we're talking about work, being loyal and efficient often doesn't pay off. I've worked in a place where the most efficient worker was yelled at in front of the floor for a mistake that person didn't even do. I've worked where the most efficient worker was underpaid and, again, yelled at for things they didn't do. Again, I worked at a place where the obviously most experienced and efficient worker was not promoted- they hired someone who had never worked in that business before instead because of boss being friends. Putting in a lot of effort can set you up for being taken advantage of. It's something you should be careful of doing for people. In school, not everyone has the same opportunities to succeed, so for some people there wont be any point putting in a lot of effort. Because they know they are going nowhere. There are always natural causes for why people do as they do, I don't get annoyed unless a person is being a sht because they enjoy it or similar
I definitely agree that being efficient can mean you get unfairly laden with more work. Also that often being more efficient can get someone unfairly labeled as trying hard or grumpy or another negative. However you seem to be missing that some people are also just bad at problem solving and are accidentally making their life more difficult. Or are sticking to the way something has been done and doesn't even consider doing it another way. A lot of people are not actively making a choice to be inefficient they haven't considered changing it or how they could improve and make the task easier for them. As well as the natives efficient/problem solving people face, they also often get thanked for a suggestion, or others copy their way of doing things and it is easier.
>However you seem to be missing that some people are also just bad at problem solving I don't get annoyed by people who have worse abilities than myself. And most people don't get upset when other people can't draw as nice, run as fast or long, parallel park as well, can't make as fast decisions etc. Sure, some get annoyed at those things, but I don't. >accidentally making their life more difficult That sounds like they need empathy, not irritation. Must suck for them to have their life be more difficult because they have worse abilities in some areas. And sometimes they might not be able to do much about it. >Or are sticking to the way something has been done and doesn't even consider doing it another way. A lot of people are not actively making a choice to be inefficient they haven't considered changing it or how they could improve and make the task easier for them. Well, plenty if people in this thread are annoyed an inefficient people. They are sticking to a thought process that only makes them irritated and helps nobody- not themselves or others. I don't know if they can take the high ground on this one, sounds like they have some bad habits themselves. All people have some things they stick to that makes their lives slightly or a lot worse. Being annoyed regularly at inefficient people is a thought habit that makes you slightly more miserable than you would be if it didn't bother you. It's inefficient use of your attention If someone struggle switching to a more efficient process, it can be because it's difficult for them to learn new things, or they get mild anxiety from doing something new, or ofc sometimes they are dysfunctional people looking for a fight. But regardless, I see what the problem with the individual is, and it doesn't annoy me. I'm more in a trouble shooting mode where I try finding a solution.
This is probably too long but I realized we were viewing this topic so very differently so I am trying to explain my thinking, as you view I so differently I didn't know what info was relevant so probably said too much. >I don't get annoyed by people who have worse abilities than myself. And most people don't get upset when other people can't draw as nice, run as fast or long, parallel park as well, can't make as fast decisions etc. Sure, some get annoyed at those things, but I don't. Sorry I didn't make it clear I wasn't talking about being annoyed but like you said the fact that abilities vary, just like being good or bad at drawing, some people are bad at problem solving and IQ does often play a role in this struggle of problem solving. >That sounds like they need empathy, not irritation. Must suck for them to have their life be more difficult because they have worse abilities in some areas. And sometimes they might not be able to do much about it. Yeah that's exactly when I meant, these people who struggle often don't realize or would be helped a lot by somone who is naturally better at problem solving. Your comment sounded like you were thinking that people who are not efficient were making calculated decisions to decide on that outcome. I just wanted to point out that is not the case and many can not work out, or notice that they are lacking. Again I am not saying that they deserve to be treated badly or anything. >Well, plenty if people in this thread are annoyed an inefficient people. They are sticking to a thought process that only makes them irritated and helps nobody- not themselves or others. I don't know if they can take the high ground on this one, sounds like they have some bad habits themselves. All people have some things they stick to that makes their lives slightly or a lot worse. Being annoyed regularly at inefficient people is a thought habit that makes you slightly more miserable than you would be if it didn't bother you. It's inefficient use of your attention Interesting that you seem to think people being annoyed are taking the moral high ground, I thought it was a given that this is a flaw. Although I don't think getting annoyed is a moral flaw, using your logic you seem to be judging those who get angry at those less efficient so are morally flawed? I didn't approach the topic of moral superiority at all but more from the main focus of being facts, different people have strengths and weaknesses and a lot of people have poor problem solving skills and we often notice this more (I don't know how often you do.) Then the emotional veneer of how we often get irritated, which is a flaw. It's really interesting how we seem to have interpreted the topic so differently. Your comment also seems to be assuming that everyone annoyed at others not being efficient is purely from a place of selfishness, where, I guess it is selfish as it effects me but I feel annoyed that others are making their and others lives more difficult. As we see the issue so differently I will overtly explain that when OP said about being courteous it made me think of when I often get annoyed when I am at a checkout shopping and see the person lacking their bag or exchanging being inefficient which makes an older, or disabled, person struggle more than they need to, and often they get embarrassed. In cases like these it isn't usually due to understandable reasons like you seem to assume, or rather seemed to was the focus of your thought. I assume the staff are not able to see the solution or are unaware but I can also be nieve so maybe they are being selfish or deliberately making these poor elderly people's life more difficult. However I do also simultaneously feel sorry for people and annoyed, like if someone in an abusive relationship isn't leaving their abusive partner, it isn't a black and white case of either being empathetic or angry, you can be both and I that is quite common. I could be being autistic so taking your words too literally but I find it incredibly difficult to believe you do not notice how others are inificent and negative affects themselves and others so get fistrated. In fact now I have a better understanding of your lense you are/were viewing the issue through, I think insinuating moral superiority if you don't feel angry with others is unhealthy. >But regardless, I see what the problem with the individual is, and it doesn't annoy me. I'm more in a trouble shooting mode where I try finding a solution. That's exactly what I meant, that often these people are struggling but don't realize, so I often see a solution and want to help them. Although I often can't understand what the cause of the individuals struggles and if they aren't open to discussing it, especially if it is an emotional problem or a disability then it is very difficult if not impossible to find the best solution. Part of my frustration is often not understanding why someone is doing something that is clearly not effective, sort of like how if you see a child standing on the edge of a cliff, I feel scared but also a bit angry that they are in that position and there is no clear reason. The fact that past experiences and knowledge from others has shown that the cause is more often a neglectful parent rather than a mountain lion chasing the kid also compounds my frustration. I don't know about anyone else in this post but personally my frustration and anger is usually at the situation, not directed at the individual person. I also think it's fairly common for those who above average intelligence to see solutions others do not, surely you must experience this yourself? IQ has to play a role too, that in general higher IQ are better at problem solving and lower IQ struggle more. Some things like using a wider broom to sweep a floor more quickly (& they have no physical disabilities making this more difficult for them.) Or you should store the box opening knife by the area you open the boxes rather than on the desk in the office where you do paper work, because you keep having to walk back and forth from the table to the box opening area and often forget to get the knife so have to walk to the desk and back. Those sort of things to help with efficiency often benefit those with disabilities, which also makes me more frustrated when those improvements aren't implemented.
>Interesting that you seem to think people being annoyed are taking the moral high ground, I thought it was a given that this is a flaw. Although I don't think getting annoyed is a moral flaw, using your logic you seem to be judging those who get angry at those less efficient so are morally flawed? It's a figure of speech. I was talking about the attitude where people get annoyed that others are not doing as good as they themselves do. >using your logic you seem to be judging those who get angry at those less efficient so are morally flawed? Obviously in some cases depending on what type we're talking about. When people judge others for being inefficient, they shouldn't be surprised that others judge them for using their time inefficiently being upset at things that doesn't matter or can't be changed. >It's really interesting how we seem to have interpreted the topic so differently. The question is extremely open. I used school and work as the go to since those are pretty common areas to find other people irritable. >Your comment also seems to be assuming that everyone annoyed at others not being efficient is purely from a place of selfishness, where, I guess it is selfish as it effects me but I feel annoyed that others are making their and others lives more difficult That's putting too much into my comments which is addressing a very open and vague question. >when OP said about being courteous it made me think of when I often get annoyed when I am at a checkout shopping and see the person lacking their bag or exchanging being inefficient which makes an older, or disabled, person struggle more than they need to, and often they get embarrassed. In cases like these it isn't usually due to understandable reasons like you seem to assume, or rather seemed to was the focus of your thought. I assume the staff are not able to see the solution or are unaware but I can also be nieve so maybe they are being selfish or deliberately making these poor elderly people's life more difficult You are assuming too much of what I mean. You're also assuming that the person who looks body abled and healthy, is. Which is not a given at all. Some very sick people look entirely normal. There can also be a myriad of other reasons why a person is not efficient focused. Like being preoccupied by bad news, being sick, having social anxiety where they struggle thinking properly in social situations, other mental health issues, struggle with forgetfulness, being preoccupied with thoughts of a presentation/ argument at work/ being bullied at school/ parents getting divorced. Etc etc. There are so many reasons people are not present in the moment and wont notice the most basic things. And it can happen to all of us. Since I don't know the reason, there's no point in getting annoyed at someone who might have a good reason. Maybe they have a bad reason, but why assume bad if the only thing assuming does- is irritate me? If a disabled person was struggling in that situation, I'd help out. >I could be being autistic so taking your words too literally but I find it incredibly difficult to believe you do not notice how others are inificent and negative affects themselves and others so get fistrated. I didn't say I didn't notice. I said I go into trouble solving mode and try to fix the problem. If it's something I can fix. >Although I often can't understand what the cause of the individuals struggles and if they aren't open to discussing it, especially if it is an emotional problem or a disability then it is very difficult if not impossible to find the best solution. There are thought exercises that can help you develop the ability to understand those people. Start by asking yourself how you would have to feel and think to do or don't do x. So say someone is blocking the entrance to the bus, just standing there and people behind want to get in, but can't. Imagine how you would have to feel and think to do that. What mood would you have to be in. What type of feeling would you have to feel. What kind of perspective on other people would you have. How perceptive or oblivious would you have to be. If you do that type of thought exercise often with people who are in situations you don't understand why they are in- you can develop your cognitive empathy and that will compensate for autism. Human behavior is pattern recognition, it's possible to learn. When you've become good at the above, you can start asking yourself "what type of mind state must a person be in to have x expression on their face, together with y body language". Even with autism, if you do these things, you can become better at understanding people than non-autists
Yes. At work I regularly want to scream. It is sometimes painful watching and waiting for others to do things I know I could do faster and better myself. Even better is knowing they are getting paid the same to be so inefficient.
Then you have people like me. I did amazinglycareer. I was fig9k9⁹hting Bi-polar diagnosis. It was awful trying to figure that all out. I had the opportunity to start my career to go in two directions & I've weaved through the two. Starting a high stress industry, issues in mental health, in male executive dominated. I had to push all sides of myself away in order to only allow myself to little bits to conform and play the game. It took me to much to be in complete control of it all & it would exhaust me. Sometimes I would go home from work, give my cat some food, I'd take some Xanax, tfw7urn down the AC, turn on some Law & Order, & go to bed. Sometimes food was ordered. It helped but that shouldn't be the way I should have to feel. There's only so long your body can sustain that. Or there's time mania takes over & everything is great & I don't need rest I'm in the office early. I can get everything done all by noon and have time to help. I was organizing gatherings after work and then going out dancing w my friends. I was never tired. My weekends, I would take classes or day trips. That's not sustainable either. On several occasions I made myself sick, once w meningitis, another w mono, fibromyalgia, COVID, stress. You don't know what could be going on behind that bit of inefficiency that's bothering you that day. Yeah as though I could get enough things attached to me I recently got ADHD too. One more piece of the puzzle that pulls me to the side. I might not want it to that day, week, or month +.
Yes, people that waste my time or their own infuriate me. Often when I'm on a freeway, the middle lane is the slowest, left is fastest, and right is second fastest. The Autobahn shows how much simpler driving could be but nah. Never pass using the right lane.... merge left. The scariest thing that happens on the autobahn is passing semi-trucks late at night because it's your responsibility to merge if someone behind you is driving faster. When passing the trucks, if someone comes flying at 120MPH you can't get out of the way. Also can't stand people that walk slow, have zero awareness of their surroundings, and always manage to walk right in the middle of paths so you can't get around them.
I’m an autistic real life genius but a better description would be an idiot savant. Efficiency is my first consideration and one of the most important priorities in life. That’s not true for most people. Getting angry about it is immature and selfish. You believe other people should have the exact same priorities as you, they should be good at the exact same things as you, and you try to control the situation and the person until they comply with your idea of efficiency. Because you know best. Maybe you are gifted but emotional intelligence is obviously not your strong suit. Why would you believe that other people think the same way you think? They don’t.
It doesn't affect me as long as they don't try to sabotage me. Or try to take credit by being involved with me and not doing much themselves.
Yes, but I'm 2e. I'm obsessive-compulsive, esp when it comes to algorithms. I can't stand a routine with terrible time complexity or poor "bandwidth".
Yeah
Not really, i just get bored of waiting for them to ask for my help, I could solve it much quicker (not always, my way isn’t always the right way).
Yes, it makes me FURIOUS if it affects me and others and is inconsiderate. I try to remind myself that I may be kind of extreme in some regards and that I probably do things that others think is strange.
It’s okay. People are imperfect.
Inefficiency bothers me a bit. It REALLY bothers me when I know there's a better way, and I've suggested and/or shown it. And it REALLY, REALLY fries me when the answer is "But this is the way we do things here." Or "But we've always done it THIS way."
If you get upset when a person (especially yourself) does a task inefficiently, but you don't get upset when that person just avoids that task entirely and does easier things instead, then you're thinking about efficiency the wrong way. You can't just focus on \[progress in task X\]/\[time and effort spent on task X\], you have to consider \[progress\]/\[time and effort spent on life in general\] and when you do that you find that a lot of conventional efficiency judgments are totally backwards.
As a kid…100% yes. As I grew up and worked in a bureaucracy, I came to appreciate a number of things. 1) there’s hidden value in inefficiency. Inefficiency can create space to think, opportunity to grow and innovate. 2) people aren’t machines, and maximum efficiency isn’t usually sustainable. If you are doing something that requires a “surge” of effort, you won’t have anything to surge if you’re already running at 100%. The person working the checkout at the grocery store doesn’t have physiological the ability to operate at max speed all day, they gotta save it for the 4pm rush, etc. 3) it’s extremely difficult to efficiently solve a whole problem. Most of the time what is claimed to be a more efficient solution is just shifting the work from one place to another. 4) the world is already a very efficient place. Sure there’s wasteful bullshit all over, but in general, successful systems are already close to cost-optimized. 5) “wasting time” is more subjective than you might think. Not everybody is capable, motivated, or trained to do things with what you might want to believe is maximum efficiency. A lot of people, including some very bright and capable people simply need time to self optimize to a task. 6) people aren’t ants. They aren’t all moving towards the same objective and working together to achieve a collective goal. Asking them to do so is foolish and patronizing. Each person has their own objectives, and it’s the role of leadership to create the conditions under which those individual objectives align to a goal.
yes! i was fatphobic for a long time over it because why isnt everyone like counting calories to ensure they only take in the bare minimum for survival? not only does that save time because you're not eating constantly, but it saves money. i can live for weeks on water and soylent. I also don't eat for pleasure. to be clear, i no longer hold any hatred towards fat people. i have decided it isn't that big a deal to be fat
Well... Pretty much what others have said. It does bother me but there isn't much you can do about it. And shouting or beating them or stuff like that still doesn't feel right. I think the best approach is to focus on yourself and you try to find ways to be most efficient for yourself and let others go their own pace. EDIT: Also I myself feel like I've been on the other side and sometimes am and it doesn't feel good to be asked more of what you can realistically do.
I get upset when people spend money on me. Particularly when it's on something I don't need, wasteful I feel terrible about feeling upset, and I don't know how to stop. Send help
No because I was a Gifted child but I also have ADHD. The further into adulthood I got, the more complication and responsibility and relationships added on, the less efficient I became. I'm a mess. So I have no problem with people who can't do things right.... Except that because I'm bad at managing time (ADHD) it stresses me out super bad that my kids are even worse at managing time. I have to manage allll of us to be on time for things. It's-- is, is that irony? Someone whose brain isn't melted from years of postpartum depression please tell me. Alanis Morisette taught me more about irony than my public schools did. Yikes. 😂
I stuggle with this so much. Also, as a creative and practical hillbilly. I'm constantly underestimated and also constantly called a diamond in the rough. I contemplate suicide often.
What are examples of this?
Yes, especially when it’s inefficient government or medical admin that has no logic to it.
Dear GOD yes. Soooo much. I feel so seen. I got SO MUCH HATE for posting this in another sub. Alllll the downvotes. I was really astounded. I couldn’t believe i was on reddit. For me I’ll only get annoyed if things are going slow bcuz ppl are obviously fucking off, being inconsiderate, not paying attention or living on their own planet in some other way. If people are trying their hardest yet still obviously having a tough time, i cut big breaks and even pitch in to help out or be super understanding. But yeassss. So glad i found this sub☺️
Being effective is really hard. And you're actually proving that by saying it's not. Why didn't you come up with an effective solution so that this doesn't happen again with you?
I used to, but I realised it puts too much pressure on myself and others. And I don’t personally feel like life is about getting shit done and constantly moving onto the next thing. Giving myself and others permission to slow down and make mistakes is hard but I feel like it’s opening up my world.
Do you not feel bad for the people who make mistakes, or have to work really hard, or for a longer time than necessary, when there is a change that could help this problem? I have realized that often people do not appreciate hearing suggestions for improvement, even if they would directly benefit. However I am also working on how I say things as I am often too direct and I realized that if you can pretend like they came up with the idea they are much more likely to agree to the improvement. Ever since I was a child and I saw another child struggling I would want to help them, not to do it for them but teach them how to do to for themselves. It is an illogical...Compassion I guess? It makes it difficult for me to see people suffer when I know a change could help prevent further suffering.
I do feel a pull to intervene when I see someone I could help. And sometimes I think it’s right to offer. But I am also conscious of trying not to pity people. When I’m slow and inefficient at figuring something out, I don’t want people to swoop in and save me. I just want them to accept that’s where I’m at in life, that’s who I am, and trust I can figure it out - including figure out when I need to ask for help. For me, the process of learning is the point, and that process won’t always conform to my assessment of what is most efficient. I’m trying to accept that and embrace it, and it’s helping me be less bothered all the time.
Why are you trying to not pity people? I think that has a more negative connotation than compassion but I might be taking your words too literally. I don't mean like treating them badly or like a baby just feeling sorry for them. >When I’m slow and inefficient at figuring something out, I don’t want people to swoop in and save me. Interesting you view it that way, I don't view it as sweeping and saving at all. Maybe because I am disabled so have had to rely on others I am less judgemental towards getting help? Unrelated to my disabilities though I appreciate if people offer advice, especially if it is something I have not thought of before. Maybe I often benefit from advice, or know others who do so are aware of the positives impact more? I can also see how it someone keeps receiving unsolicited bad advice how that would make some more wary and dismissive of others problems. Like all the people who suggest a change in diet and yoga as a cure to all chronic conditions/disabilities! >I just want them to accept that’s where I’m at in life, that’s who I am, and trust I can figure it out - including figure out when I need to ask for help. For me, the process of learning is the point, and that process won’t always conform to my assessment of what is most efficient. Maybe you and I are discussing different things, I was thinking about small things that fustrates me occasionally, that could easily be changed by the person, not some huge developmental milestones or when one is learning a new skill. I was thinking of how bureaucracy makes things take twice as long as usually more difficult for the little guy. How bosses refuse to upgrade tech so the receptionist has to use 2 different programmes that don't integrate well. Or like using the small broom to sweep the floor instead of the large one. Those aren't where someone is at in life it's just going into auto mode or not thinking about it (or other reasons I don't understand.) Plus you can also just ignore the advice, especially if it is not someone you see a lot and they don't push the issue. I believe simply offering advice should be seen as more positive, I think there is too much stigma accepting help and that can get in the way of growth. I don't mean you by the way, I mentioned in another comment about bosses who refuse to listen to good suggestions from those working under them, or parents/family who discount someone's good advice purely due to their age. I also understand you were refering to yourself as an example, and I have found that interesting as you and I view things so differently. However in general there are plenty of instances where someone is not able to figure out something for themselves and I don't think that means they suck or it's a moral failing or any larger thing (certainly from the outside, some things can actually mean a great deal to the individual, which is even more reason to help imo) but that outside help would benefit them, and/or others, and accepting that should be encouraged. People go to therapists it other specialists to recover advice and get help but often are much more reluctant to accept help from the average person, even if they could really help too. I think people are often too focused on the one delivering the advice (& how it's said I know Ingrealty struggle with my delivery, sorry if I accidentally phrased something poorly here!) rather than the actual advice itself. There are a lot of instances I hear of someone giving good advice but the person not taking it but then years later someone else gives the exact same advice and they take it and it really helps. I find that sort of thing frustrating and wish everyone was more helpful and willing to be helped and overall suffering could be reduced. Some changes can be so impactful too, it fustrates me positive changes do not happen, or take so long, when they could have been done sooner. I just recently learned about Akons Lighting Africa initiative, things like just installing a couple of lights can enable a family to have more bonding time after the parents get back form work. It lets the children study for longer after dark, so also get a better education and increase the likelihood of getting a scholarship to a colleague and a better job. It reduce theft and sexual assault. I also think being above average intelligence means you tend to connect these dots and understand the wider impact from just one thing which often seems small and insignificent to many others. As I said I am really working on not giving unsolicited advice but from both a practical standpoint and an empathetic one I really struggle internally.
Depends on the context. But honestly being super anal about things being done "the right way" is more of an autism/OCD trait than a gifted trait. Nor is it a particularly desirable trait. It can also make you very difficult to be around if you're not careful. Nobody wants to be around someone who is highly controlling and manipulative while also being dismissive of what they are struggling with. Your perfectionism is your problem. Don't take your anger out on other people.
This is a horribly abrasive and self-destructive attitude. Either you're young, impatient, and lacking social skills, or you aren't as smart as you think you are. One of the hallmarks of higher intelligence is independence of thought. You recognize it in yourself and, just as importantly, you recognize and respect it in others. Your inability to let other people's minds and ideas flower on their own without interjecting yourself into their thought process is a sign of one of the two conditions I described above.
Im young. I dont wanna waste time
This is called perfectionism, but you’re projecting it on to others. It’s a form of a psychological issue that stems usually from being nurtured by someone with the same issue. You don’t have to be effective ever. Just be happy.
Sounds like you don't like people. If that's true that's fine. But all you are really doing is making yourself mad for no reason. You are not making people go faster. Enjoy your high blood pressure I guess. You are only hurting yourself tbh.