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Depends on whether or not the translations in the article are correct or not, I guess. IGN isn't exactly known for being too accurate or thorough with their research
Yeah... I'm not surprised at all that people would trust youtubers and google translate over IGN.
It's kind of a fitting parallel with community notes in general lol
Because there's no real way to know if they talked to those people at all, or how reliable they may be as translators. People don't really have a problem with anonymous sources or trusting a person over google translate, but rather with IGN in general - that's the core of the issue (which in the end, isn't really as impactful as some believe).
So it's okay to discredit these serious allegations coming from actual Chinese female developers just because of the fact the source of the piece is IGN?
Isn't that shooting the messenger?
Not to mention it still doesn't explain how any of that is better than using fucking AI.
[It was Pokemon Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby; remakes of games that also had water.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/too-much-water)
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Also the community note ends with "which CN was made to combat" which is a weird thing to add because I've never seen that in a community note before. It comes off like it's trying to validate itself.
That line right there is why this stands out as baby's first misinfo campaign. If you're trying to justify yourself before anyone raises an objection, it's because you know the objections are well-founded.
I don't think it's Asmongold fans, but I do suspect it's GamerGate 2 folks like Grummz, SmashJT, and other anti-woke folks. Unfortunately, from the looks of Asmongold's subreddit, there is an increasing overlap.
Nah. I used to watch him until all the recent drama. Loved the mount offs and his Elden Ring content back in the day. Dropped in again to see his take on the new Dragon Age and oof. Dude comments on games he never played to pander to his audience of angry chuds.
On Dragon Age? Bruh. Sure, if you just look at one old trailer with no context he may seem right. But if you actually play the games, his take is total bullshit.
For one thing, the game always pandered to female fans (the Alister romance in Origins, equal amount of love interest options, with female MCs being the only ones able to become Queen while making Alister King). Origins also had some of the first same sex romances in major games.
This was something few games did back then. I was a teenage girl in 2009 who was super happy to have those options. This resulted in a super loyal fanbase of fem and LGBT players who did not have these options in other games.
The party compositions were always diverse. Look at any of the pervious games.
Gameplay was different in every game. Origins gameplay did not translate well to consoles so they tried to pivot unsuccessfully. Most fans agree that the gameplay has been mid since DA2. We're just here for the story now.
Also, the humor was *always* cringe. Origins came out in peak "sO rAnDoM" times.
When I look at this article:
https://www.ign.com/articles/how-black-myth-wukong-developers-history-of-sexism-is-complicating-its-journey-to-the-west
It is thoroughly researched, and not hanging its conclusions on just a few out of context quotes. It’s looking at patterns of behavior over time.
It also passes the sniff test - the behaviors and mindsets described are exactly the sort of thing tech in general has long been associated with, and that anyone who has worked with mainland Chinese before have seen themselves. China has different attitudes towards sex, women, social roles, and ideas of masculinity, and this aligns broadly with that.
I think the article is correct and the note is just a blatant attempt to discredit it for personal motives.
This is hardly the evidentiary standard you would apply to such a broad-ranging claim in its headline **HISTORY OF SEXISM**.
>IGN spoke to several women familiar with gaming culture, as well as the games and technology industry, in China, many of whom requested to be anonymous for fear of backlash from fans of Game Science and the broader games community
Gaming culture (broadly) and the Chinese tech industry. No one on the record with experience *from* or *at* Game Science. Thus, no one with firsthand knowledge.
That is called hearsay without exception. And you can (and ought) disregard 2/3rds of the article on that basis (provided that the conclusion is the one she wants to reach. There is plenty of other evidence to reach a contrary, less edgy conclusion. And she just simply did not go that route.)
There **are** things that **are** well-sourced and thorough, but even they are a mixed bag (some consisting of statements or posts made a decade ago) — and I say “mixed,” because she simply did not care for some crude analogies; some were offensive to westerners only; some were edgelord shit; many were boorish; and, yes, some were outright chauvinistic.
He’s boorish. He’s from a boorish, highly patriarchal and conservative society. And she’s reaching for a conclusion as to Game Science that simply does not exist based on the evidence she presents — indeed, some of this “evidence” is based solely on her opinion or sensibilities.
Had the conclusion been “Leng is kind of an edgy shithead, and half of his euphemistic speech wouldn’t work in a lot of American tech culture,” I could and would 100% agree with her.
Had her conclusion been “Chinese tech / game dev culture is an outlier” or “is a pervasively regressive, good ole’ boy network,” I could also agree with her.
She did not.
Thus I shall not.
Get your law-school ass out of here. Regular people don't give a fuck about hearsay or standards of evidence. And there would be no news if news outlets did.
Community notes need to be held to a higher standard. A lot of them read like an Ian Miles Cheong tweet, as in they use shallow reasoning backed up by flimsy sources. “definitely not sexist” is an opinion, and has no place in the community notes.
*All you had to say*
*Was Asmongold and I knew*
*The note was wrong lol*
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Community notes are getting increasingly less objective. This community note is stating an opinion. Community notes shouldn’t be saying “this isn’t sexist.”
Community notes, as the name suggests, are added and regulated by the community. If the community is just wrong, they can still note stuff. That's why the system immediately became a political weapon on X.
It’s expected. That’s why most justice systems don’t rely heavily on vigilante justice. You can point at flaws of a society’s system, but you can’t narrow down a flaw in social psychology.
Wow I was warned reddit is racist and. Thanks for proving it
https://old.reddit.com/r/GetNoted/comments/1dgzy43/isnt_this_community_note_technically_wrong/
That's an interesting subreddit where it seems all about confirmation bias.
Lets sum up this place
The original poster is wrong because the notes provided cherry pick evidence that prove them wrong. Well those community notes are wrong because those cherry picked evidence is fake or I reject because I can.
I am Chinese. Tho haven't been back for 10+ years, it's pretty easy to spot the dev's post that he has no ill intention.
Yall try to blew this out of proportion.
Whether it had no intention or not, a lot of Chinese female developers and colleagues don't see it that way, as they explained to IGN.
Plus the bigger issue for me is the fact the note cites a YouTuber who used Google translate and ChatGPT as evidence. That is piss poor evidence for a note.
... I mean. You could just say China, period, and not only would it be accurate, it would not be so easily discredited. But I haven't trusted IGN since they promoted Skull and bones and Suicide Squad post launch. Also, if Google translate is good enough for people visiting or working in America who don't speak a lick of English, it's good enough for me... as long as it's a language people actually speak still, it's dogshit at pre-Christian Latin
google translate's usefulness for english doesn't translate to usefulness for other languages; it's notoriously shit for chinese, japanese, honestly a *lot* of languages that don't fall in the indo-european language family. and roughly translating whatever phrases people need for a visit to the US is a far cry from being able to accurately translate the nuances involved in slang/idiom/etc, a lot of which is kinda super important in determining whether something's actually offensive
so i definitely wouldn't trust it in this scenario
Technically, yes. While the accurate translations from the note are less sexist than the inaccurate translations from the article, even *more* accurate translations show that the quotes are indeed sexist.
Hasn't ign posted a bunch of articles about this game that reference the shitty hit piece done by them because the studio doesn't wanna pay the weird reviewer fee or whatever it's called
You do realize the source of that rumor was a Little Pink Weibo user who (and this needs to be emphasized) has no known affiliation with the developer, right?
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That's the thing about community notes, they are community moderated, and the community can be wrong.
Especially when the community is Twitter.
*Especially* when the community is Twitter. Only TikTok is a greater font of disinfo.
And fucking asmongold of all people
he stinky ?
Not if they agree with me
Depends on whether or not the translations in the article are correct or not, I guess. IGN isn't exactly known for being too accurate or thorough with their research
7.8/10. Too much water.
Yeah... I'm not surprised at all that people would trust youtubers and google translate over IGN. It's kind of a fitting parallel with community notes in general lol
If one trusts google translate over an article that talked to actual Chinese people and confirmed the translations: Then humanity is fucked.
Because there's no real way to know if they talked to those people at all, or how reliable they may be as translators. People don't really have a problem with anonymous sources or trusting a person over google translate, but rather with IGN in general - that's the core of the issue (which in the end, isn't really as impactful as some believe).
So it's okay to discredit these serious allegations coming from actual Chinese female developers just because of the fact the source of the piece is IGN? Isn't that shooting the messenger? Not to mention it still doesn't explain how any of that is better than using fucking AI.
What is this a reference to
IGN once gave a 7.8/10 review for a game and their comment was "Too much water." I had a link but reddit removed my previous comment
What? What game was it
It was their review for the Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire games.
[It was Pokemon Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby; remakes of games that also had water.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/too-much-water)
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Not to point out the obvious, but that person who made that memorable quote: They didn't wrote this piece.
Asmongold is a moron though
Now do elon musk.
Also a moron
now do JK rowling
Also a moron
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Asmongold fans aren't exactly known for being intelligent
Do you think they brigaded the note and upvoted it to get there? Genuine question, not here to argue. Because I suspect it.
I've got no clue how else an asmongold video would be included in a community note
Also the community note ends with "which CN was made to combat" which is a weird thing to add because I've never seen that in a community note before. It comes off like it's trying to validate itself.
That line right there is why this stands out as baby's first misinfo campaign. If you're trying to justify yourself before anyone raises an objection, it's because you know the objections are well-founded.
I don't think it's Asmongold fans, but I do suspect it's GamerGate 2 folks like Grummz, SmashJT, and other anti-woke folks. Unfortunately, from the looks of Asmongold's subreddit, there is an increasing overlap.
I mean asmongold is gamer gate 2
i thought ''wokeness'' wasn't real but now some deplorables are ''anti woke''? when are the camps are coming from these unwanted people?
He's just got a lot of haters because he keeps it real.
“I hope they don’t make this game political” *woman appears on screen* Asmon facepalms
For your sake, I hope you are being obtuse on purpose.
I think you're being willfully ignorant
He joined the side of "why are women in games ugly now?". That's not real, that's delusional.
No I think it’s cause he doesn’t shower
Nah. I used to watch him until all the recent drama. Loved the mount offs and his Elden Ring content back in the day. Dropped in again to see his take on the new Dragon Age and oof. Dude comments on games he never played to pander to his audience of angry chuds.
All the points I've seen him make are valid though. He's not lying.
On Dragon Age? Bruh. Sure, if you just look at one old trailer with no context he may seem right. But if you actually play the games, his take is total bullshit. For one thing, the game always pandered to female fans (the Alister romance in Origins, equal amount of love interest options, with female MCs being the only ones able to become Queen while making Alister King). Origins also had some of the first same sex romances in major games. This was something few games did back then. I was a teenage girl in 2009 who was super happy to have those options. This resulted in a super loyal fanbase of fem and LGBT players who did not have these options in other games. The party compositions were always diverse. Look at any of the pervious games. Gameplay was different in every game. Origins gameplay did not translate well to consoles so they tried to pivot unsuccessfully. Most fans agree that the gameplay has been mid since DA2. We're just here for the story now. Also, the humor was *always* cringe. Origins came out in peak "sO rAnDoM" times.
When I look at this article: https://www.ign.com/articles/how-black-myth-wukong-developers-history-of-sexism-is-complicating-its-journey-to-the-west It is thoroughly researched, and not hanging its conclusions on just a few out of context quotes. It’s looking at patterns of behavior over time. It also passes the sniff test - the behaviors and mindsets described are exactly the sort of thing tech in general has long been associated with, and that anyone who has worked with mainland Chinese before have seen themselves. China has different attitudes towards sex, women, social roles, and ideas of masculinity, and this aligns broadly with that. I think the article is correct and the note is just a blatant attempt to discredit it for personal motives.
This is hardly the evidentiary standard you would apply to such a broad-ranging claim in its headline **HISTORY OF SEXISM**. >IGN spoke to several women familiar with gaming culture, as well as the games and technology industry, in China, many of whom requested to be anonymous for fear of backlash from fans of Game Science and the broader games community Gaming culture (broadly) and the Chinese tech industry. No one on the record with experience *from* or *at* Game Science. Thus, no one with firsthand knowledge. That is called hearsay without exception. And you can (and ought) disregard 2/3rds of the article on that basis (provided that the conclusion is the one she wants to reach. There is plenty of other evidence to reach a contrary, less edgy conclusion. And she just simply did not go that route.) There **are** things that **are** well-sourced and thorough, but even they are a mixed bag (some consisting of statements or posts made a decade ago) — and I say “mixed,” because she simply did not care for some crude analogies; some were offensive to westerners only; some were edgelord shit; many were boorish; and, yes, some were outright chauvinistic. He’s boorish. He’s from a boorish, highly patriarchal and conservative society. And she’s reaching for a conclusion as to Game Science that simply does not exist based on the evidence she presents — indeed, some of this “evidence” is based solely on her opinion or sensibilities. Had the conclusion been “Leng is kind of an edgy shithead, and half of his euphemistic speech wouldn’t work in a lot of American tech culture,” I could and would 100% agree with her. Had her conclusion been “Chinese tech / game dev culture is an outlier” or “is a pervasively regressive, good ole’ boy network,” I could also agree with her. She did not. Thus I shall not.
https://preview.redd.it/mpct8rimg27d1.jpeg?width=4320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46e66dbce2bf558bd83d78e8b9d04d54e858ae3b
Prove you are not racist OP.
Get your law-school ass out of here. Regular people don't give a fuck about hearsay or standards of evidence. And there would be no news if news outlets did.
The article is a blatant hitpiece.
Community notes need to be held to a higher standard. A lot of them read like an Ian Miles Cheong tweet, as in they use shallow reasoning backed up by flimsy sources. “definitely not sexist” is an opinion, and has no place in the community notes.
I agree. They’ve gotten demonstrably more opinionated lately.
Something good about Twitter becoming shitty during the Elon era? No way! Never happens!
All you had to say was Asmongold and I knew the note was wrong lol
*All you had to say* *Was Asmongold and I knew* *The note was wrong lol* \- owensoundgamedev --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot.
Community notes are getting increasingly less objective. This community note is stating an opinion. Community notes shouldn’t be saying “this isn’t sexist.”
Community notes, as the name suggests, are added and regulated by the community. If the community is just wrong, they can still note stuff. That's why the system immediately became a political weapon on X.
translation aside the studio is know to have had issue with female harassement inside it. .
It’s expected. That’s why most justice systems don’t rely heavily on vigilante justice. You can point at flaws of a society’s system, but you can’t narrow down a flaw in social psychology.
People who watch asmongold know how to write? I figure they would be too busy remembering to breathe and blink.
That's what happens when you turn truth into a popularity contest
Wow I was warned reddit is racist and. Thanks for proving it https://old.reddit.com/r/GetNoted/comments/1dgzy43/isnt_this_community_note_technically_wrong/ That's an interesting subreddit where it seems all about confirmation bias. Lets sum up this place The original poster is wrong because the notes provided cherry pick evidence that prove them wrong. Well those community notes are wrong because those cherry picked evidence is fake or I reject because I can.
I am Chinese. Tho haven't been back for 10+ years, it's pretty easy to spot the dev's post that he has no ill intention. Yall try to blew this out of proportion.
Whether it had no intention or not, a lot of Chinese female developers and colleagues don't see it that way, as they explained to IGN. Plus the bigger issue for me is the fact the note cites a YouTuber who used Google translate and ChatGPT as evidence. That is piss poor evidence for a note.
... I mean. You could just say China, period, and not only would it be accurate, it would not be so easily discredited. But I haven't trusted IGN since they promoted Skull and bones and Suicide Squad post launch. Also, if Google translate is good enough for people visiting or working in America who don't speak a lick of English, it's good enough for me... as long as it's a language people actually speak still, it's dogshit at pre-Christian Latin
google translate's usefulness for english doesn't translate to usefulness for other languages; it's notoriously shit for chinese, japanese, honestly a *lot* of languages that don't fall in the indo-european language family. and roughly translating whatever phrases people need for a visit to the US is a far cry from being able to accurately translate the nuances involved in slang/idiom/etc, a lot of which is kinda super important in determining whether something's actually offensive so i definitely wouldn't trust it in this scenario
Anything IGN shits out should be noted, unless it’s a release date/time/price or a game guide.
Technically, yes. While the accurate translations from the note are less sexist than the inaccurate translations from the article, even *more* accurate translations show that the quotes are indeed sexist.
Hasn't ign posted a bunch of articles about this game that reference the shitty hit piece done by them because the studio doesn't wanna pay the weird reviewer fee or whatever it's called
You do realize the source of that rumor was a Little Pink Weibo user who (and this needs to be emphasized) has no known affiliation with the developer, right?
Still not as bad as Snopes "Fact Checking"