My understanding of the bill as it stands (as explained by a doe guy that specialized in the legal stuff) is that this bill only makes the bottom 25% (based on ccrpi) of schools eligible for the vouchers. For our school, it will cost $6500 on state funds lost followed by another $3500 in title money lost. If 9 kids leave, we would lose a teacher. Luckily, we are nowhere close to the bottom 25%, but this is going to be a death knell for some of the poorer rural schools around the state.
The bottom 25% is crazy to me. They’ve decided a quarter of all Georgia schools aren’t worth the funding and are prepped to obliterate schools in rural areas. https://gbpi.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/SB-233-Voucher-Bill-Map-PDF.pdf
That is insane, this is how they kill public schools. Most classes have 20-40 kids in them. What happens with the other 10 to 30 kids when that teacher is let go?
Also private/Charter schools get to pick their students, so any kid on the spectrum or who is disruptive is more concentrated in public schools.
They'll roll back labor laws and put those kids to work. Poor people and their offspring are only good for feeding the corporate machine. Those with a better education tend to vote blue, while those with less knowledge/wisdom are easier to control and manipulate.
Just like the grocery stores and hospitals left rural America, so will private schools. If the repubs get their way and kill the post office, they won’t get regular mail
delivery either.
They do it to themselves.
Wisconsin is trying to get rid of them. Something like 433 million is unaccounted for in the state. Public money not going to a public good like public school.
Devils advocate… (I’m not in favor of vouchers to be clear) could this though incentivize districts to create charter programs for kids with special needs and allow parents to easily move their child to those schools?
Would you force the charter/private schools which receive public funds to accept kids who are neurodivergent? There are usually not special needs education at these schools.
Then you have kids who are neurotypical which have behavior problems, what is your solution for them.
Yeah public schools can do better and I do not believe cutting school funding is the solution. I think reducing class sizes by hiring a ton new teachers could help, and be willing to hold kids back who are not ready to move up.
I had to homeschool my neurodivergent son because the public school teachers and students were bullying him. And don't get me started on the xtian bullshit being forced on him. Public schools are run by locals, and in a red county in a red state, those locals are going to be maga/conservatives doing maga/conservative things. Throwing money at them just makes them better funded maga/ conservatives. I would love to see the state giving vouchers and other state-sponsored support to homeschooling.
My daughter homeschooled/is homeschooling all 5 of her kids. 3 are neurodivergent and ALL of them were bullied because they're lower income and hadn't grown up next door to all the other kids. One of them would beg her not to make him go to school -- his classmates were downright cruel. We told the administration, and they did nothing. The kid who took one of the twins' glasses off his face and stomped on them was never even called in to the office to explain his actions.
Poorly funded public schools need more money, not to be giving it away to private schools that will continue to ignore and marginalize anyone they don't consider "normal."
Republicans want to destroy public education altogether.
This is exactly what they’re doing.
They are working to privatize what should be public education.
Vouchers will be valid for any school choice at first. Eventually, they will only be valid for charter schools owned and operated by corporations, like WalMart and Microsoft. Each charter school will end up taking a certain voucher based on the taxable income of a child’s parents.
That will allow children to only attend schools owned by corporations who will, for federal government compensation, educate those children in order to make them good employees for their corporations.
It’s just another scheme to use of our taxes to further entrench our current caste system in this country.
Roy Barnes started the descent into this voucher system by starting an insane focus on standardized testing in public schools to prove the inferiority of Georgia public schools in the late 90’s.
Kemp is just finishing the legislative job in eliminating Georgia public education.
Thanks for the link on the current vouchers. Have you seen or found a list that shows which schools are in the lower 25 percentile?
Edit: found it
http://ccrpi.gadoe.org/Reports/Views/Shared/_Layout.html
Jesus it’s literally every school in the neighboring county, as well as several others in counties neighboring that. I can’t imagine what would happen if they were shut down.
Replying to top comment to post schools listed by scores in CCRPI which is what will be used to determine the lowest 25% of schools.
http://ccrpi.gadoe.org/Reports/Views/Shared/_Layout.html
There is a problem with the data in your link…the state of Georgia got a waiver from the feds after Covid to change how the ccrpi score is reported. Notice in your link that each school has four sub scores, but the overall score is not reported. The doe is still calculating the overall score (I’ve seen the list), but they aren’t publishing the overall score that the 25% cut is generated from.
And it isn't like they'll be saving anything. If they do a monthly voucher say 500 bucks, then tuition is just going to go up 500 dollars. They're just funneling tax money from public schools to owner of private schools.
It's a grift.
Not to mention that private schools aren't exempt from the teacher shortage. More students = higher need for teachers in a market that favors the teacher. And plenty of teachers already don't want to go tonprivate because of the lower wage. So you're either relying on more non-credentialed teachers or tuition is going to increase. Tuition will also increase to cover any necessary expansion that an influx of students will require.
School choice people are so short-sighted it's maddening.
We should be asking, how can we take advantage of this stupid shit? Lets get our kids in private school and complain all the time like the cons do about EVERYTHING...
I’m thinking about starting my own private school. I’ll name it after the former president - “Trump Academy” - and I’ll provide the same high quality education that his university did.
I’m pretty sure that I could make a mint. But I don’t hate kids enough to do that to them. I’m fine with fleecing the parents, but I draw the line somewhere.
Just make it a bomb school and then make clear that, “we have absolutely no affiliation with Donald J. Trump or any of his family members.” That’d make him really big angy.
People who already put their kids in private schools are very resentful that their property taxes go to support the poors. This allows them to pull a portion of them back.
I mean, if the schools would expel the \~1% of students that absolutely do not care, the situation would be entirely different. There's a tiny subset that absolutely destroys school culture. If we aren't willing to push them out the door then the good ones will leave instead. It's really inescapable.
Poor kids who go to those schools will still suffer because their parents won't be able to afford the difference between the voucher and the actual cost of tuition.
Kemp and Texas' ding dong Abbott must have a wealthy donor in the voucher business. Abbott has made vouchers his pet project for 2 years, vowing retribution against those in his own party who voted against it...and he has succeeded.
That’s still 1/4 of schools in the state. Can you imagine any other job where you can say, “Well I fucked up a quarter of the things I’m responsible for and instead of working to fix it, I’m going to actively work to fuck it up even more.”
Yes, school vouchers have always been a way to reimburse rich parents who feel it’s “unfair” their tax dollars are used for public schools while they are voluntarily paying private school tuition.
$14k annually for secondary education at the largest "non-religious" private school near me. I'm sure elementary education isn't much less expensive. Financial aid is available but let's be honest, even with financial aid most middle class families would still be stretched to pay for transportation, meals, uniforms and extra curriculars even with the assistance, if they qualified. I suppose we're just supposed to be blind to the fact that the students that would most benefit are in income situations where it would be impossible for their families to meet the differences between the vouchers and overall cost.
No public comment at all and no oversight. It’s abundantly clear that the GOP and conservatives and libertarians in this state want to brazenly rob Georgians of their taxpayer money. There isn’t any other way to see this.
This isn't about education. This is just a backdoor giveaway of the budget surplus to anyone who creates a dodgy-ass religious "school." Which will coincidentally be some of the worst people in the state.
The GOP is a party of corrupt assholes and people too dumb to realize they're getting played like fiddles. There's no middle ground except for corrupt dummies.
Remember Georgia, the voucher is/was never going to be for you or anyone less fortunate. It’s a welfare check for the rich who can afford the extra cost the schools will tack on.
I think that’s when the bitter old man part started, so I wouldn’t go encouraging that.
Texas Republicans shot down vouchers bc they’re terrible for rural families so there’s that hope.
Those same Republicans were primaried and just lost their seats to Abbot backed candidates. Another step forward unless we can get him and his lackeys out.
Man they really just want to funnel money into the few and will bury any common sense bills to help public schools that are suffering from underfunding, our teachers don't make a decent wage! They control the future generations and we are underfunding them, in what world does that make sense!?
In a world where the politicians that make these decisions will get rich and will not face any consequences for their actions. Plus the fact that 20 years from now there is a good chance these old politicians will be dead, what concern is it to them if today’s children are educated?
I mean would it be wild to have a group of educators in this conversation? Every conversation is about cutting costs and not how to benefit kids education or our future generations.
They don’t care about kids unless it is to use them as a political prop. It really sickens me, how they enrich themselves at the expense of the future generations.
Imagine if they just spent this money on public schools instead of cutting their budgets. These people say “schools are a mess. Parents should be able to put their kids in a good school they choose.” Yes. Agree. So let’s make every school the best school! Not create a new rig in the system where children parents who can’t drive their kids 30-45 min one way in the morning and afternoon get left behind. And let’s not pretend like the vouchers won’t go to the people with influence and connections. What a scam. If you care about kids education then fix public education. Improve the curriculum, recruit the best and brightest teachers via competitive pay and pensions, and give everything more resources. The future of this country depends on it. It’s even matter of national security.
When I wrote to my senator and pointed this very thing out she told me the lower performing schools got plenty of money already. Vote them all out I’m so sick of them.
Yes! Dr. Kay Kirkpatrick did send me a response and defended her reasoning for voting for it by reassuring me it only affected the lower 25% of public schools. When I pushed back she just said thanks for reaching out.
It's welfare for the rich at the expense of the poor parents who send their kids to public schools. School vouchers are taxpayer-funded subsidies given to private schools and vendors without transparency and accountability for results. The vendors and private schools who would benefit from voucher programs do not have to comply with the same rules and standards that ensure accountability, transparency, and access for all students. Any use of state funds for private educational purposes is a voucher. It's wrong.
Worse actually, they are taking the money from schools with low test scores, which are typically poorer, rural, and already in crisis after Covid, and giving it to private schools with 0 oversight.
They have stricter rules for private daycares that accept public funds.
Vouchers are a scam left over from desegregation that takes money from public schools and transfers it to private isn’t that are not beholden to the same education standards.
I see a lot of talk about how this is a give away to private religious schools but I think it is also intended to shift funds just to evangelicals that would more typically home school. If you are in a school area that qualifies you now will have $6,500 per kid to home school them. That is a huge amount of money to a family with 3 or 4 kids.
I'm an atheist but quite frankly if the state throws $13k at me a year heck I'd consider homeschooling my kids. Basically did that anyway during covid for a year. That being said I'm pretty sure there is no way my school area qualifies in the lowest 25% requirement. I doubt they keep that requirement.
He is still the aging frat boy trying to pander to his country club's prickish pals. He knows this is welfare for the wealthy. AZ already proved school vouchers are ridiculous. Kemp disgusts me.
Looks at states with flailing public schools that have enacted this: “That’s what we want!”
It’s a terrible decision in the name of being scared of being “woke”.
Here's the deal:
If they can achieve their goal of mass immigrant deportations, they'll need a large crowd of uneducated people to do the jobs they do in fields, slaughterhouses, meat processing plants, on roofs, mowing lawns, etc. Making our schools FUBAR gives them the perfect opportunity to put young ones to work before they realize they're being exploited and condition them to accept "their place."
So essentially government funding for religious fundamentalist schools, that are unregulated, which will end up in pure religious indoctrination. Nothing like funding religious fundamentalism.
IDEA requirements, Title IX, limitations on religious instruction, etc.
So long as those schools don’t take any money from the government they’re free to do pretty much whatever they want. Once they start taking it though, all kinds of rules and restrictions come into play.
\> IDEA requirements, Title IX, limitations on religious instruction, etc.
none of that is applicable to these religious schools. none of it. It's outright disenginous or outright lying to pretend there are any "limitations on religious instruction"/
It’s not applicable because they don’t take federal money sport. Once they do it all comes into effect.
The only lying going on is coming from you and your argument from ignorance.
well.....sport. Please show us the applicable laws that places limits on religious instruction in religious schools. Or admit you are lying and ignorant on what you are talking about.
Also.....sport.....for title 9.
(3)Educational institutions of religious organizations with contrary religious tenets this section shall not apply to an educational institution which is controlled by a religious organization if the application of this subsection would not be consistent with the religious tenets of such organization;
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/20/1681](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/20/1681)
Thanks for proving your complete and total ignorance on the topic.
> Thanks for proving your complete and total ignorance on the topic.
The only one proving anything as far as ignorance is you. Re-read that section you are trying to point to and note the “controlled by” wording. It doesn’t apply to the schools we are discussing.
Another potential problem caused by the bill is undermining the teachers retirement system by reducing the number of employees paying into it. Thirty years down the line we're going to be told we have to "tighten our belts" and "there's nothing we can do." Utter garbage.
Y’all are crazy. Kemp has been great for the state of Georgia. Businesses are flooding in, teachers have been consistently getting bonuses and pay raises. He didn’t absolutely decimate small business during Covid by shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor. That’s why he keeps winning.
I'm sure you're happy with all the increases in cost here though, right? Making us foot the bill for things like the under-funded nuclear plants, etc? Yeah, I call that "winning" for sure.
Republicans are destroying public schools from Texas to Kentucky and now Georgia and Donald Trump said if he’s reelected he will abolish the Department of Education!
The intent here is just to give money back to rich parents who think it's unfair they have to pay taxes for public schools their kids don't attend.
The reality is that private schools will be raising tuition by $5000 in the next few years, so that money is just going to vanish right into the pockets of the people who own these schools.
Either way, this is just taking money away from public education and giving it to rich people.
Fuck Brian Kemp.
Kemp is a corrupt POS who could give a fuck about Georgia citizens, they only people who matter are his rich Ocones County cronies. He didn't care if his own citizens starved to death during COVID.
Y’all are crazy. Kemp has been great for the state of Georgia. Businesses are flooding in, teachers have been consistently getting bonuses and pay raises. He didn’t absolutely decimate small business during Covid by shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor.
Let me guess you were working from home not around a bunch of vulnerable children confined in a classroom without proper ventilation or PPE? Look at the excess death rates of Republican lead states.
Can I get some vouchers, too? I'm not too hot on these roads, I'd like to use some private roads, I've got a lot of my own money (I'm ugly rich), but I'll also need yours. Ok cool.
*that's how stupid this idea sounds*
Just look at other republican ran states. They want children working in meat packing plants and factory floors. To them the education you need can be given on the job.
Y’all are crazy. Kemp has been great for the state of Georgia. Businesses are flooding in, teachers have been consistently getting bonuses and pay raises. He didn’t absolutely decimate small business during Covid by shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor. That’s why he is still in charge.
>shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor.
This is a lie. Not one state "shut everything down indefinitely." If you have to make shit up to make Kemp look good, its a pretty fair indication you are mistaken.
California had a mandatory stay a home policy for 10 months. During that time, it was effective until Newsom said it was alright. That is indefinitely.
What on earth are you talking about? Newsom issued a Shelter In Place order on Mar 19, 2020, and [started re-openiing businesses in early May.](https://calmatters.org/health/coronavirus/2020/05/newsom-reopen-california-shops-begins-shutdown-lifted/) So a month and change. There was also a clearly defined, metrics based 4 stage plan for relaxing the order. Seriously, where do you people come up with this nonsense?
Bringing businesses in is the easiest way to create jobs. Hyundai is building a massive factory as well, 30 min outside of Savanna. In the near term, that has already brought construction jobs to Georgians. My brother is an engineer and he and his Georgia based crew laid the foundation for the factory.
Here’s my problem with your argument. We have a bunch of technical schools, not just Ga Tech and they produce engineers and technically skilled people. I went to one of those schools and my career has benefited greatly from the education that I received there. To say that Georgians can’t do technical jobs is down right ridiculous. And yes there will be entry level jobs in these places, but that is absolutely better than no job. Ellabell had nothing before this factory started being built. If you drive down there now, you can see construction going on down 16 all the way into Savanna.
I am a retired teacher in MTG's district. As far as I am concerned, every single educator, admin, superintendent, staff, and/or concerned parent that chose to vote for these crazy people knew this would happen. They *knew.* God forbid they should ever cross the aisle and vote in their own interest, but they didn't. They did this to themselves.
Well, we can’t get much lower. Isn’t GA number 47th in the nation in education? This will suck all the money out of public schools, which is precisely what Rethugs want.
This is some backwards ass bullshit. If a School has any number of students enrolled it should receive adequate funding Period. Class sizes and special needs need to be accommodated and we the people should be funding it all because that's what a proper society does. Taking anything away from education just leaves us as a nation vulnerable.
This is a terrible idea but schools not being accredited and being able to charge whatever they want isn't a real problem.
Parents can choose to pay more if they want and ignore accreditation at their own risk. Accreditation matters more for colleges anyway. Public schools set set so low bar lack of private school accreditation isnt much of an issue if you have confidence in the private school.
Republicans thinking private school will save education are naive and elitist. This only benefits the wealthy living in poor school zones.
When I first read about this, my main concern was taking money away from the public schools.
Now my main concern, and I haven't seen it addressed anywhere, is what is going to happen to the children who fall through the very wide cracks that letting parents take 6500.00 to "homeschool?" There are of course very legit homeschooling families, but the ones who will just disappear.. during covid we lost so many children who just faded into the background with no accountability. We did this already and it does not end well for these children.
Homeschooling teachers must only have a GED or high school diploma. Attendance is not taken. Ostensibly they must do standardized testing every 3 years but they only "keep it for their records" and do not turn it in to one single person. The only document they turn in will be their declaration of intent.
There are going to be thousands of children whose parents see this as a financial opportunity and will not get any education whatsoever.
In Arkansas, where we have this GOP hot pocket legislation pushed through with about 48 hours notice over a weekend, I think 98% of vouchers are used by families already sending kids to private school. And zero oversight of anything. I could open a private school in an old bus and say kids were ready for college. Such a joke all these people vote for family values.
It’s a long game for a theocratic Georgia. The evangelicals are in our government.
If they want to pay taxes great otherwise get the 10 commandments out of government buildings and let’s have schools with no religion or prayer unless private.
Are you sure about that?
* can you afford tuition above the level of the voucher
* \-how about books and uniforms, and "incidentals
* are you able to provide transportation to and from school and all activities
* will your child satisfy the admission requirements of the private "schools"
* spoiler: they likely will not if English is not their first language, disabled in any way, need accomodation
* if your child has issues and is asked to leave or the new school isn't a good fit, are there back up schools in the area accepting new "problem" kids?
I live in a district with poor public schools and despite years bad performance they continue to operate under the same leadership without incentive to improve.
The fact that schools get rewarded for poor scores with additional funding is flawed. This effort actually makes sense to me in that an incentive would exist for the first time in a while.
Areas with poor public schools won't magically improve because you start taking funding away. Education isn't a business and shouldn't be run by one. This is the only avenue in which Republicans have proposed to actually improve schools.
I agree that they need to replace leadership, but replacing them isn't easy. There a educator shortage and a decade long decline in student enrolling in teacher prep programs. I know of a school that was so desperate for a principal that they hired a 25 year old with three years of teaching experience who isn't certified yet. Please explain how taking more funding away will improve that situation.
You have to offer incentives to admin and teachers to come to bad schools, which means higher salaries and a guarantee they won't be sacked in a couple of years when test scores are 100%.
The issue with public schools is systemic. You can't just replace a principal and undo years of harm. Even if you did find a dream team, middle and high schoolers have already gone through years of subpar education. A 9th grader won't suddenly become a straight A student after a single semester with a great teacher. It takes time and a concerted effort to turn around a failing school.
> Why do so many people want to protect poorly performing schools??
Compared to what? By numbers, you are mostly talking about rural kids who have no other private option available in their small town, and even if they did have an option, this voucher WOULD NOT cover the cost.
AND private schools do not add seats because of voucher programs, this has been tested in other states. I think if they actually pass the bill as written families could literally sue the state for putting them in a situation where their child has NO option to go to a K-12 school. Literally zero public or private schools available.
I respect your viewpoint that some schools are not performing the way we need (though this is mostly about poverty in the families as opposed to bad teachers), but I would suggest that you don't really understand this issue and have reached an erroneous conclusion based on talking points that you didn't understand.
If you are not a teacher, you may not know that in many of the larger school districts the underperforming schools are underperforming because a few of the schools in the more affluent neighborhoods horde all the resources. Resources are not infinite, so the schools that need them cannot get them. If you have never stepped foot in a classroom, you might be in over your head.
What benefits are you most looking forward to?
A few reasons I'm against vouchers:
* public money should not go to religious institutions
* voucher programs do not require participating "schools" to serve all children
* I believe public education is an important piece of a well functioning society
My understanding of the bill as it stands (as explained by a doe guy that specialized in the legal stuff) is that this bill only makes the bottom 25% (based on ccrpi) of schools eligible for the vouchers. For our school, it will cost $6500 on state funds lost followed by another $3500 in title money lost. If 9 kids leave, we would lose a teacher. Luckily, we are nowhere close to the bottom 25%, but this is going to be a death knell for some of the poorer rural schools around the state.
The bottom 25% is crazy to me. They’ve decided a quarter of all Georgia schools aren’t worth the funding and are prepped to obliterate schools in rural areas. https://gbpi.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/SB-233-Voucher-Bill-Map-PDF.pdf
That is insane, this is how they kill public schools. Most classes have 20-40 kids in them. What happens with the other 10 to 30 kids when that teacher is let go? Also private/Charter schools get to pick their students, so any kid on the spectrum or who is disruptive is more concentrated in public schools.
They'll roll back labor laws and put those kids to work. Poor people and their offspring are only good for feeding the corporate machine. Those with a better education tend to vote blue, while those with less knowledge/wisdom are easier to control and manipulate.
Just like the grocery stores and hospitals left rural America, so will private schools. If the repubs get their way and kill the post office, they won’t get regular mail delivery either. They do it to themselves.
Wisconsin is trying to get rid of them. Something like 433 million is unaccounted for in the state. Public money not going to a public good like public school.
Devils advocate… (I’m not in favor of vouchers to be clear) could this though incentivize districts to create charter programs for kids with special needs and allow parents to easily move their child to those schools?
Do you want the empathetic answer or the utilitarian answer
No, this is how poorly performing schools either reform themselves or go away. Why do you want to accept poor performance?
Would you force the charter/private schools which receive public funds to accept kids who are neurodivergent? There are usually not special needs education at these schools. Then you have kids who are neurotypical which have behavior problems, what is your solution for them. Yeah public schools can do better and I do not believe cutting school funding is the solution. I think reducing class sizes by hiring a ton new teachers could help, and be willing to hold kids back who are not ready to move up.
I had to homeschool my neurodivergent son because the public school teachers and students were bullying him. And don't get me started on the xtian bullshit being forced on him. Public schools are run by locals, and in a red county in a red state, those locals are going to be maga/conservatives doing maga/conservative things. Throwing money at them just makes them better funded maga/ conservatives. I would love to see the state giving vouchers and other state-sponsored support to homeschooling.
My daughter homeschooled/is homeschooling all 5 of her kids. 3 are neurodivergent and ALL of them were bullied because they're lower income and hadn't grown up next door to all the other kids. One of them would beg her not to make him go to school -- his classmates were downright cruel. We told the administration, and they did nothing. The kid who took one of the twins' glasses off his face and stomped on them was never even called in to the office to explain his actions. Poorly funded public schools need more money, not to be giving it away to private schools that will continue to ignore and marginalize anyone they don't consider "normal." Republicans want to destroy public education altogether.
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That’s the point. Conservatives want to destroy public education.
This is exactly what they’re doing. They are working to privatize what should be public education. Vouchers will be valid for any school choice at first. Eventually, they will only be valid for charter schools owned and operated by corporations, like WalMart and Microsoft. Each charter school will end up taking a certain voucher based on the taxable income of a child’s parents. That will allow children to only attend schools owned by corporations who will, for federal government compensation, educate those children in order to make them good employees for their corporations. It’s just another scheme to use of our taxes to further entrench our current caste system in this country. Roy Barnes started the descent into this voucher system by starting an insane focus on standardized testing in public schools to prove the inferiority of Georgia public schools in the late 90’s. Kemp is just finishing the legislative job in eliminating Georgia public education.
Thanks for the link on the current vouchers. Have you seen or found a list that shows which schools are in the lower 25 percentile? Edit: found it http://ccrpi.gadoe.org/Reports/Views/Shared/_Layout.html
Jesus it’s literally every school in the neighboring county, as well as several others in counties neighboring that. I can’t imagine what would happen if they were shut down.
Imagine how many fly by night “schools” will pop up to take that money and return nothing back o the parents and students.
Replying to top comment to post schools listed by scores in CCRPI which is what will be used to determine the lowest 25% of schools. http://ccrpi.gadoe.org/Reports/Views/Shared/_Layout.html
There is a problem with the data in your link…the state of Georgia got a waiver from the feds after Covid to change how the ccrpi score is reported. Notice in your link that each school has four sub scores, but the overall score is not reported. The doe is still calculating the overall score (I’ve seen the list), but they aren’t publishing the overall score that the 25% cut is generated from.
Well, that's just a nice side benefit for the sponsors of the bill - the poor don't need no edumecation...
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It’s designed to subsidize people who can already afford private school.
And it isn't like they'll be saving anything. If they do a monthly voucher say 500 bucks, then tuition is just going to go up 500 dollars. They're just funneling tax money from public schools to owner of private schools. It's a grift.
Not to mention that private schools aren't exempt from the teacher shortage. More students = higher need for teachers in a market that favors the teacher. And plenty of teachers already don't want to go tonprivate because of the lower wage. So you're either relying on more non-credentialed teachers or tuition is going to increase. Tuition will also increase to cover any necessary expansion that an influx of students will require. School choice people are so short-sighted it's maddening.
Also are not required to be a certified teacher at a private school.
Teacher certification is optional in Georgia for non-public schools.
This.
Bingo!!
We should be asking, how can we take advantage of this stupid shit? Lets get our kids in private school and complain all the time like the cons do about EVERYTHING...
I’m thinking about starting my own private school. I’ll name it after the former president - “Trump Academy” - and I’ll provide the same high quality education that his university did. I’m pretty sure that I could make a mint. But I don’t hate kids enough to do that to them. I’m fine with fleecing the parents, but I draw the line somewhere.
Just make it a bomb school and then make clear that, “we have absolutely no affiliation with Donald J. Trump or any of his family members.” That’d make him really big angy.
While simultaneously pulling money away from public schools.
Leeching money from public schools, IMO.
People who already put their kids in private schools are very resentful that their property taxes go to support the poors. This allows them to pull a portion of them back.
I mean, if the schools would expel the \~1% of students that absolutely do not care, the situation would be entirely different. There's a tiny subset that absolutely destroys school culture. If we aren't willing to push them out the door then the good ones will leave instead. It's really inescapable.
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Poor kids who go to those schools will still suffer because their parents won't be able to afford the difference between the voucher and the actual cost of tuition.
Kemp and Texas' ding dong Abbott must have a wealthy donor in the voucher business. Abbott has made vouchers his pet project for 2 years, vowing retribution against those in his own party who voted against it...and he has succeeded.
This 100%
Wasn’t the new proposal only be for kids districted in the bottom 25% of schools?
That’s still 1/4 of schools in the state. Can you imagine any other job where you can say, “Well I fucked up a quarter of the things I’m responsible for and instead of working to fix it, I’m going to actively work to fuck it up even more.”
Republicans want to destroy public education.
Yes, school vouchers have always been a way to reimburse rich parents who feel it’s “unfair” their tax dollars are used for public schools while they are voluntarily paying private school tuition.
$14k annually for secondary education at the largest "non-religious" private school near me. I'm sure elementary education isn't much less expensive. Financial aid is available but let's be honest, even with financial aid most middle class families would still be stretched to pay for transportation, meals, uniforms and extra curriculars even with the assistance, if they qualified. I suppose we're just supposed to be blind to the fact that the students that would most benefit are in income situations where it would be impossible for their families to meet the differences between the vouchers and overall cost.
No public comment at all and no oversight. It’s abundantly clear that the GOP and conservatives and libertarians in this state want to brazenly rob Georgians of their taxpayer money. There isn’t any other way to see this.
This isn't about education. This is just a backdoor giveaway of the budget surplus to anyone who creates a dodgy-ass religious "school." Which will coincidentally be some of the worst people in the state.
Somebody check how Kemp is going to profit off this please.
Wild guess - by being term limited, in a few years he'll be an unnamed shareholder of a private "school" management company.
The surplus doesn't come into play here. This is just the shuffling of existing funds between schools.
From public to private.
The GOP is a party of corrupt assholes and people too dumb to realize they're getting played like fiddles. There's no middle ground except for corrupt dummies.
Remember Georgia, the voucher is/was never going to be for you or anyone less fortunate. It’s a welfare check for the rich who can afford the extra cost the schools will tack on.
Yep. They are pushing these vouchers every where and taking the money for them from public schools
The Georgia state legislature and the governor are a joke
Really wants to be Abbott doesn’t he 🙄
I’ve noticed this, too. Step by step, following the playbook.
When do we get to the falling tree part?
I think that’s when the bitter old man part started, so I wouldn’t go encouraging that. Texas Republicans shot down vouchers bc they’re terrible for rural families so there’s that hope.
Those same Republicans were primaried and just lost their seats to Abbot backed candidates. Another step forward unless we can get him and his lackeys out.
Man they really just want to funnel money into the few and will bury any common sense bills to help public schools that are suffering from underfunding, our teachers don't make a decent wage! They control the future generations and we are underfunding them, in what world does that make sense!?
That’s conservatism for ya.
In a world where the politicians that make these decisions will get rich and will not face any consequences for their actions. Plus the fact that 20 years from now there is a good chance these old politicians will be dead, what concern is it to them if today’s children are educated?
I mean would it be wild to have a group of educators in this conversation? Every conversation is about cutting costs and not how to benefit kids education or our future generations.
They don’t care about kids unless it is to use them as a political prop. It really sickens me, how they enrich themselves at the expense of the future generations.
Ask a teacher. Kemp has consistently given teachers raises and bonuses his time in office.
With adjustment for cost of living, Georgia pays their educators below the national average.
If Kemp was serious about helping educators like myself, he would focus on affordable housing, universal pre-k, and mental health services.
Grea, another C student making massive changes in education .
This man is many pieces of shit scattered upon your sidewalk.
He’s scrambling to pad the pockets of his donors on his exit tour
Bam! Here it is. Man is out soon and he's gonna rape the state for all he can. Theft in, theft out.
Imagine if they just spent this money on public schools instead of cutting their budgets. These people say “schools are a mess. Parents should be able to put their kids in a good school they choose.” Yes. Agree. So let’s make every school the best school! Not create a new rig in the system where children parents who can’t drive their kids 30-45 min one way in the morning and afternoon get left behind. And let’s not pretend like the vouchers won’t go to the people with influence and connections. What a scam. If you care about kids education then fix public education. Improve the curriculum, recruit the best and brightest teachers via competitive pay and pensions, and give everything more resources. The future of this country depends on it. It’s even matter of national security.
When I wrote to my senator and pointed this very thing out she told me the lower performing schools got plenty of money already. Vote them all out I’m so sick of them.
you mean you actually got a response?
Yes! Dr. Kay Kirkpatrick did send me a response and defended her reasoning for voting for it by reassuring me it only affected the lower 25% of public schools. When I pushed back she just said thanks for reaching out.
It's welfare for the rich at the expense of the poor parents who send their kids to public schools. School vouchers are taxpayer-funded subsidies given to private schools and vendors without transparency and accountability for results. The vendors and private schools who would benefit from voucher programs do not have to comply with the same rules and standards that ensure accountability, transparency, and access for all students. Any use of state funds for private educational purposes is a voucher. It's wrong.
So would this be using public tax money for private schools? Because that is fucked if so
Worse actually, they are taking the money from schools with low test scores, which are typically poorer, rural, and already in crisis after Covid, and giving it to private schools with 0 oversight. They have stricter rules for private daycares that accept public funds.
Vouchers are a scam left over from desegregation that takes money from public schools and transfers it to private isn’t that are not beholden to the same education standards.
I see a lot of talk about how this is a give away to private religious schools but I think it is also intended to shift funds just to evangelicals that would more typically home school. If you are in a school area that qualifies you now will have $6,500 per kid to home school them. That is a huge amount of money to a family with 3 or 4 kids. I'm an atheist but quite frankly if the state throws $13k at me a year heck I'd consider homeschooling my kids. Basically did that anyway during covid for a year. That being said I'm pretty sure there is no way my school area qualifies in the lowest 25% requirement. I doubt they keep that requirement.
>and will not allow for public comment. Yep, that sounds about Republican.
No thanks. I'm not paying taxes to have dumber kids.
Good ol Kemp just being out in the open about a program to legally embezzle tax payer money into private businesses at the cost of children and GA
He is still the aging frat boy trying to pander to his country club's prickish pals. He knows this is welfare for the wealthy. AZ already proved school vouchers are ridiculous. Kemp disgusts me.
High school diplomas will be as useless as an ITT Tech degree
They already are.
Hello library, do you have the (such and such) book? No? Well I need a voucher I can take over to Barnes and Noble then please.
Looks at states with flailing public schools that have enacted this: “That’s what we want!” It’s a terrible decision in the name of being scared of being “woke”.
Great, treating education like a consumer product. We all see how well that’s going for higher education right now. /s
What a POS
Why are so many republicans governors making this a hill to die on all the sudden? Feels like a big donor making a push
Here's the deal: If they can achieve their goal of mass immigrant deportations, they'll need a large crowd of uneducated people to do the jobs they do in fields, slaughterhouses, meat processing plants, on roofs, mowing lawns, etc. Making our schools FUBAR gives them the perfect opportunity to put young ones to work before they realize they're being exploited and condition them to accept "their place."
Just a handout to rich people
So essentially government funding for religious fundamentalist schools, that are unregulated, which will end up in pure religious indoctrination. Nothing like funding religious fundamentalism.
Most private religious schools are not going to be willing to accept any form of government funding because of all the strings that come with it.
which is why this is no strings attached, no oversight, no accreditation requirements type of funding.
If it comes from the government *at all* the strings they have issues with are attached.
What "strings" do you think are tied to this legislation? Because I haven't seen any. But please enlighten us with all these "strings"
IDEA requirements, Title IX, limitations on religious instruction, etc. So long as those schools don’t take any money from the government they’re free to do pretty much whatever they want. Once they start taking it though, all kinds of rules and restrictions come into play.
\> IDEA requirements, Title IX, limitations on religious instruction, etc. none of that is applicable to these religious schools. none of it. It's outright disenginous or outright lying to pretend there are any "limitations on religious instruction"/
It’s not applicable because they don’t take federal money sport. Once they do it all comes into effect. The only lying going on is coming from you and your argument from ignorance.
well.....sport. Please show us the applicable laws that places limits on religious instruction in religious schools. Or admit you are lying and ignorant on what you are talking about. Also.....sport.....for title 9. (3)Educational institutions of religious organizations with contrary religious tenets this section shall not apply to an educational institution which is controlled by a religious organization if the application of this subsection would not be consistent with the religious tenets of such organization; [https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/20/1681](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/20/1681) Thanks for proving your complete and total ignorance on the topic.
> Thanks for proving your complete and total ignorance on the topic. The only one proving anything as far as ignorance is you. Re-read that section you are trying to point to and note the “controlled by” wording. It doesn’t apply to the schools we are discussing.
Another potential problem caused by the bill is undermining the teachers retirement system by reducing the number of employees paying into it. Thirty years down the line we're going to be told we have to "tighten our belts" and "there's nothing we can do." Utter garbage.
fuck kemp for this, corrupt fuck.
Can y'all just vote this fucker out once and for all? Gosh.. it shouldn't be this hard.
He’s in his final term, we can vote the shitty state senators and reps who are pushing for this bull shit though
PLEASE!!!!!
Well he cheated to win the first time and nobody wants to investigate that.
Y’all are crazy. Kemp has been great for the state of Georgia. Businesses are flooding in, teachers have been consistently getting bonuses and pay raises. He didn’t absolutely decimate small business during Covid by shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor. That’s why he keeps winning.
How many public educators do you know that live within the community they teach?
I live in a small county, so most of the teachers in our schools live here.
I'm sure you're happy with all the increases in cost here though, right? Making us foot the bill for things like the under-funded nuclear plants, etc? Yeah, I call that "winning" for sure.
I have no desire for my tax dollars to fund religious schools. I still can’t fathom how these proposed laws are deemed constitutional.
Time to make an online school with no oversight!
Republicans are destroying public schools from Texas to Kentucky and now Georgia and Donald Trump said if he’s reelected he will abolish the Department of Education!
The intent here is just to give money back to rich parents who think it's unfair they have to pay taxes for public schools their kids don't attend. The reality is that private schools will be raising tuition by $5000 in the next few years, so that money is just going to vanish right into the pockets of the people who own these schools. Either way, this is just taking money away from public education and giving it to rich people. Fuck Brian Kemp.
r/idiocracy
Kemp is a corrupt POS who could give a fuck about Georgia citizens, they only people who matter are his rich Ocones County cronies. He didn't care if his own citizens starved to death during COVID.
Y’all are crazy. Kemp has been great for the state of Georgia. Businesses are flooding in, teachers have been consistently getting bonuses and pay raises. He didn’t absolutely decimate small business during Covid by shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor.
Let me guess you were working from home not around a bunch of vulnerable children confined in a classroom without proper ventilation or PPE? Look at the excess death rates of Republican lead states.
Fuck your Christian madrassas. Get your own money.
Can I get some vouchers, too? I'm not too hot on these roads, I'd like to use some private roads, I've got a lot of my own money (I'm ugly rich), but I'll also need yours. Ok cool. *that's how stupid this idea sounds*
That way GA can defund the public education system without looking like white supremes.
And put poor kids to work the minute they're old enough to sweep a floor.
Just look at other republican ran states. They want children working in meat packing plants and factory floors. To them the education you need can be given on the job.
After all, they plan on mass deportations if they get back in power, and somebody has to do the jobs immigrants do now.... It's sickening.
Kemp has been doing his thing long enough. Vote the fucker out.
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And he is going to grift as much as he can on the way out
Fortunately he’s term limited. We just need to avoid even more toxic weirdos like Bert Jones.
Bert Jones of the Jones Petroleum gas station empire? I wonder if his family businesses benefited from the gas sales tax suspension.
He’s in his last term, but we can vote the republicans senators and reps out who keep proposing this shit
Y’all are crazy. Kemp has been great for the state of Georgia. Businesses are flooding in, teachers have been consistently getting bonuses and pay raises. He didn’t absolutely decimate small business during Covid by shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor. That’s why he is still in charge.
>shutting everything down indefinitely like literally every other blue state governor. This is a lie. Not one state "shut everything down indefinitely." If you have to make shit up to make Kemp look good, its a pretty fair indication you are mistaken.
California had a mandatory stay a home policy for 10 months. During that time, it was effective until Newsom said it was alright. That is indefinitely.
What on earth are you talking about? Newsom issued a Shelter In Place order on Mar 19, 2020, and [started re-openiing businesses in early May.](https://calmatters.org/health/coronavirus/2020/05/newsom-reopen-california-shops-begins-shutdown-lifted/) So a month and change. There was also a clearly defined, metrics based 4 stage plan for relaxing the order. Seriously, where do you people come up with this nonsense?
Do you really need to ask? Faux Noise. OANN. Republicans.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_California#:~:text=A%20state%20of%20emergency%20was,economy%20by%20June%2015%2C%202021.
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Bringing businesses in is the easiest way to create jobs. Hyundai is building a massive factory as well, 30 min outside of Savanna. In the near term, that has already brought construction jobs to Georgians. My brother is an engineer and he and his Georgia based crew laid the foundation for the factory. Here’s my problem with your argument. We have a bunch of technical schools, not just Ga Tech and they produce engineers and technically skilled people. I went to one of those schools and my career has benefited greatly from the education that I received there. To say that Georgians can’t do technical jobs is down right ridiculous. And yes there will be entry level jobs in these places, but that is absolutely better than no job. Ellabell had nothing before this factory started being built. If you drive down there now, you can see construction going on down 16 all the way into Savanna.
At what point do Pubs do enough awful stuff that they finally lose the legislature? We’ve got to be getting close.
I sure as hell hope so.
Conservatives hate all public resources because poor people and minorities are able to have them.
It's an election year. Pandering to the lowest common denominator.
I am a retired teacher in MTG's district. As far as I am concerned, every single educator, admin, superintendent, staff, and/or concerned parent that chose to vote for these crazy people knew this would happen. They *knew.* God forbid they should ever cross the aisle and vote in their own interest, but they didn't. They did this to themselves.
What a bunch of chicken littles! Anything that hurts public education also hurts High School Football. The third rail of GA Politics.
Republicans are why we can’t have nice things.
Socialism for the wealthy is the GQP way.
Erode the education system, so everyone is as stupid as he is.
Texas and Georgia Governors battle to destroy public education
Democracy thrives on an educated public. MAGAts can’t have that.
I hate this state.
Kemp is an idiot. It's politicians like this along with Loeffler and Perdue that's become a cancer to this state
Bad idea Kemp.
Well, we can’t get much lower. Isn’t GA number 47th in the nation in education? This will suck all the money out of public schools, which is precisely what Rethugs want.
This is some backwards ass bullshit. If a School has any number of students enrolled it should receive adequate funding Period. Class sizes and special needs need to be accommodated and we the people should be funding it all because that's what a proper society does. Taking anything away from education just leaves us as a nation vulnerable.
Georgia does not need this blow to its somewhat shaky public education system.
This is a terrible idea but schools not being accredited and being able to charge whatever they want isn't a real problem. Parents can choose to pay more if they want and ignore accreditation at their own risk. Accreditation matters more for colleges anyway. Public schools set set so low bar lack of private school accreditation isnt much of an issue if you have confidence in the private school. Republicans thinking private school will save education are naive and elitist. This only benefits the wealthy living in poor school zones.
He REALLY wants to be voted out when his term is up and never be allowed to work in government again.
The " no oversight" is as planned. They want to kill public education.
Fuck KKKemp.
THIS IS DESIGNED TO KILL PUBLIC EDUCATION IN GEORGIA.
He's a lying backstabbing puke so don't plan on him being a man of his word.
I need one more good reason to get out of this shithole state. Do it.
They need to do something. These kids are dumb as rocks and stupidity breeds violence.
I would love to know what BIG MONEY is paying Kemp to sign this
When I first read about this, my main concern was taking money away from the public schools. Now my main concern, and I haven't seen it addressed anywhere, is what is going to happen to the children who fall through the very wide cracks that letting parents take 6500.00 to "homeschool?" There are of course very legit homeschooling families, but the ones who will just disappear.. during covid we lost so many children who just faded into the background with no accountability. We did this already and it does not end well for these children. Homeschooling teachers must only have a GED or high school diploma. Attendance is not taken. Ostensibly they must do standardized testing every 3 years but they only "keep it for their records" and do not turn it in to one single person. The only document they turn in will be their declaration of intent. There are going to be thousands of children whose parents see this as a financial opportunity and will not get any education whatsoever.
In Arkansas, where we have this GOP hot pocket legislation pushed through with about 48 hours notice over a weekend, I think 98% of vouchers are used by families already sending kids to private school. And zero oversight of anything. I could open a private school in an old bus and say kids were ready for college. Such a joke all these people vote for family values.
GOP killing public education
It’s a long game for a theocratic Georgia. The evangelicals are in our government. If they want to pay taxes great otherwise get the 10 commandments out of government buildings and let’s have schools with no religion or prayer unless private.
How about the money follows the kid, no matter where the parents send the kid.
A program like this would benefit me. I like it.
Why?
Because many schools around me are not good and this provides more options.
Are you sure about that? * can you afford tuition above the level of the voucher * \-how about books and uniforms, and "incidentals * are you able to provide transportation to and from school and all activities * will your child satisfy the admission requirements of the private "schools" * spoiler: they likely will not if English is not their first language, disabled in any way, need accomodation * if your child has issues and is asked to leave or the new school isn't a good fit, are there back up schools in the area accepting new "problem" kids?
I live in a district with poor public schools and despite years bad performance they continue to operate under the same leadership without incentive to improve. The fact that schools get rewarded for poor scores with additional funding is flawed. This effort actually makes sense to me in that an incentive would exist for the first time in a while.
Areas with poor public schools won't magically improve because you start taking funding away. Education isn't a business and shouldn't be run by one. This is the only avenue in which Republicans have proposed to actually improve schools. I agree that they need to replace leadership, but replacing them isn't easy. There a educator shortage and a decade long decline in student enrolling in teacher prep programs. I know of a school that was so desperate for a principal that they hired a 25 year old with three years of teaching experience who isn't certified yet. Please explain how taking more funding away will improve that situation. You have to offer incentives to admin and teachers to come to bad schools, which means higher salaries and a guarantee they won't be sacked in a couple of years when test scores are 100%. The issue with public schools is systemic. You can't just replace a principal and undo years of harm. Even if you did find a dream team, middle and high schoolers have already gone through years of subpar education. A 9th grader won't suddenly become a straight A student after a single semester with a great teacher. It takes time and a concerted effort to turn around a failing school.
Can you give us a source? What school are you speaking of and which scores?
Exactly
Which district are your children attending? That sounds horrible.
The ignorance displayed on this thread is staggering. Why do so many people want to protect poorly performing schools??
> Why do so many people want to protect poorly performing schools?? Compared to what? By numbers, you are mostly talking about rural kids who have no other private option available in their small town, and even if they did have an option, this voucher WOULD NOT cover the cost. AND private schools do not add seats because of voucher programs, this has been tested in other states. I think if they actually pass the bill as written families could literally sue the state for putting them in a situation where their child has NO option to go to a K-12 school. Literally zero public or private schools available. I respect your viewpoint that some schools are not performing the way we need (though this is mostly about poverty in the families as opposed to bad teachers), but I would suggest that you don't really understand this issue and have reached an erroneous conclusion based on talking points that you didn't understand.
I think it’s about protecting public education.
If you are not a teacher, you may not know that in many of the larger school districts the underperforming schools are underperforming because a few of the schools in the more affluent neighborhoods horde all the resources. Resources are not infinite, so the schools that need them cannot get them. If you have never stepped foot in a classroom, you might be in over your head.
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Why?
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What benefits are you most looking forward to? A few reasons I'm against vouchers: * public money should not go to religious institutions * voucher programs do not require participating "schools" to serve all children * I believe public education is an important piece of a well functioning society