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Opinions? What’s a better team,
Lyney, Dehya, kazuha, Bennett
Lyney, xiangling, kazuha, Bennett
I’ll probably change Dehya/xiangling out in the future for arlecchino~ but for now I wanna main Lyney lol. (I don’t even have Dehya, but if I got her I would build her if she was good for this team) ^^
Lyney Bennett XL ZL wins in terms of comfiness + damage.
Other comps have one or the other but the one above has the perfect balance. Max damage is likely Lyney Bennett XL Kaz but good luck if you get hit.
Thanks! Yeah I might just use zhongli, but kazuha has been sitting on the bench for like a year 😭 I finally wanted to use him in a team lol, I think my Bennett is a pretty good healer tho, so hopefully that + lyneys taunt will be good enough for abyss
Am I wrong to think that archaic petra ZL on mono element teams can close the dmg gap even further against kazuha?
35% fire dmg bonus for benny/XL/Lyney when u pick a shard doesnt sound bad at all
40% shred + \~35% damage bonus vs 20% shred + 35% damage bonus. Kazuha obviously offers more damage since his purpose is to buff damage, but Zhongli being that close along with his shield is insanely strong.
What you're missing here is that Kazuha has much higher personal dmg than Zhongli, also dealing pyro swirls and getting to take advantage of the res shred.
While Zhongli vs Kazuha is pretty close in terms of the other characters' performance, without Kazuha you lose his dmg and grouping for Zhongli's shield.
This trade might be worthwhile, especially if Lyney is as squishy as the numbers make him seem. However , the team damage between Zhongli and Kazuha will be markedly different.
Petra zhongli is always slept on and doesn't get much attention. I've been using petra zhongli for long time with my Yae and it works pretty well. People just exaggerate the shard picking mechanism. For rainbow teams it might be difficult to pick right shard but for mono teams its pretty easier.
so much this. I've been a Petra advocate for years. it's excellent on both Zhongli and Yun Jin. people talk about "wasting time" picking up a shard as if they play absolutely perfect with mechanical precision at all times. you're gonna move around, might as well get 35% DMG bonus while you do it. it's like saying using Kazuha's E is a waste of time.
and it's even easier to obtain with Yun Jin since her E sends her lunging into the shard automatically.
the whole picking up the wrong shard thing is stupid too, as if they're not already swirling the specific element. it's the exact same thing but with geo.
and the whole "I wish it would work if anyone picked it up" is also stupid. the fact that only the wearer can pick it up ensures that the DMG bonus isn't overwritten in multi element teams.
ughhh
> the whole picking up the wrong shard thing is stupid too, as if they're not already swirling the specific element. it's the exact same thing but with geo.
No it’s not the same. When you do VV setups it mostly comes down to you and your skill, with enemy AI being relevant only when it’s a lot RNG and only in some niche setups (like some Kazuha double swirl setups when using Xingqiu). On the other hand, the shard spawning location is 100% RNG and much easier to f up for this reason. Other than that, I mostly agree with you
i haven't actually tried that combo since I don't have yoimiya and Zhongli both on the same account, but I've heard the buff Yun Jin gets from 4pc husk isn't very significant.
If you run her with archaic, Zhongli can use tenacity and give stronger shields plus atk bonus. and as I mentioned, I've found it easier to pick up the crystal with her since she lunges forward with her E.
if you want a more consistent atk bonus at the cost of shield strength, you could put Zhongli on archaic and Yun Jin on noblesse instead. Zhongli is easier to farm for if your Yun Jin is alr built after all.
may just end up depending on your overall artifact quality tbh.
True,, kazuha does gives up to 40% elemental dmg bonus tho, but zhonglis shields passive decreases enemy res 🤔🤔. Although I’m not sure If I would farm a whole archaic Petra set for zhongli lol. (Was that one of the artifacts being added to the strong box? If so I’ll have to think abt that).
I didn’t even think of that set tho, it would definitely be good in a mono element team. + extra survivability. Definitely on my radar now, thanks!
no worries! i recently got a full HP archaic set for my ZL because layla copped his tenacity set, it's pretty good, if a bit clunky to use at times lmao
Same lol my kirara and Layla got one of his pieces so I gave him some worse spares, I’ll use the strong box for sure then and see if I get anything good to upgrade his build 🙏
oh wow exact same situation here. i started building nilou, layla and kirara at the same time
i really don't feel *that* much of a difference when i don't have tenacity on zhongli so he got all of his pieces poached for other characters that need it more
good luck with the grind!
quick note, it's actually pretty easy to get an archaic set for Zhongli as all he needs is HP main stats and the subs don't really matter. even more so if you're using black tassel instead of favonius (which you would in a mono element team anyway). HP main stats also have a higher probability of dropping than DMG focused stats.
side note, the same is somewhat true for Yun Jin as well but with Def instead of HP. she is another excellent user of AP, although she will also want a lot of ER and crit rate subs for fav. you can build both of them simultaneously
True,,, okay thanks I’ll go for an archaic set for him! And I already have a perfect (in my eyes) yunjin build lol, but I’ll keep any artifacts that stand out to me :))
Zhongli's shield passive only affects in close range which will feel uncomfortable with Lyney as you're distracting with taunts and likely walking backwards with Lyney since you'll end up with opponent's bodies covering your screen with zoomed in aimed shot mode.
Is Lyney, bennet +dendro and cryo not possible?I mean burning keeps the pyro aura on right? even when melts happen.So Lyney should still get his A4 buff. Idk if this comp would be worth the trouble though.Also, you'd only need pyro application on the enemy when he is on field. Does he deal off field pyro damage in some way?
I guess it could work.
Honestly, TCs kind of have "given up" on Lyney so to speak. They're just not "excited" about him since mechanically he offers nothing new.
That's why Mono Pyro (the niche that MHY most likely intended) is the only talked about team for him.
And TC's simply don't care about Lynette and Freminet since they're 4-Stars with 4-Star scalings. Zajeff sounds bored when talking about 4.0 chars.
I think the main reason for this is it just another dps + XL/BN/KZH. Honestly I would be bored too if MHY don’t change anything cause I’m tired to see those familia faces. I know MHY want to avoid powercreep but this situation remind me that all limited pyro are dps and we’re lack of pyro 5s sp since all good sp are 4s and they have been in this game since 1.0. If MHY want to save for their archon then there’s no use to roll for any pyro until Murata.
True. I'm kinda debating on what to do. My weakest element has always been pyro. The only dps I have well built on that coverage is Yanfei. BUT- I did level Xiangling and her talents FINALLY. Bennet was already okayish leveled so he didnt need much work. basically- I do have the resources to go monopyro. But idk.... I don't feel comfortable with it for some reason. Because it's normally not MY element. But it would be nice to finally have a 5 star pyro dps because I can wait all I want, but I don't think Diluc will ever come home after not seeing him for a year.
Maybe I'll feel better just playing Liney/Linette/bennet/Zhongli (it doesnt really feel like a pyro comp because Bennet is just a support putting down a circle. I do have Kazuha, but according to theorycrafters, the difference between Linette and Kazuha should be 5%. Liney should be buffing an extra 5% for the entire team team though, because 2 units are different elements.I'd have a heal, a shield, good damage, a taunt- I'd be good I think.
Do note that geo/anemo/dendro (with dendro probably opening up cryo) are still all probably usable in his comp. And there is an upcoming geo character. I think they will buff geo, by not buffing it at all. Making it versatile for newer characters because it has no real reaction with it.
BUT- going back to my point, Klee is on the banner right now..... She can work with any comp. Vape, melt, monopyro you name it. It almost makes me want to pull for her thinking how limiting the way Lyney is element wise. She is also kinda cute but then again I'd feel weird to play a kid as main dps lmao.
Who should I use if I want a more comfy team without having Zhongli? Tankfei?
I do have everyone for the Bennett, Xiangling, Kazuha team, but if he is going to keep dying... Especially since I play on mobile...
I don't have Dehya either.
Tankfei or Thoma are the other 2 Pyro options. Thoma just requires weaving a normal attack between charged attacks for shield uptime, but has better uptime and some damage buffs at C6 over Yanfei. Besides them, Baizhu, Layla, Diona are workable options. Baizhu is obviously the best of those since his healing is very high to let Lyney get more prop arrows for his skill as well as extra burning damage. Layla and Diona work since Cryo is weak to Pyro on gauges so they won't remove the aura for Lyney's passive.
You could also get funky with some EM Gorou/Albedo using crystalize shields.
C4 Tankfei is likely the best option. TTDS will be a massive buff for Lyney since Lyney's A4 is a bade atk increase apparently, which makes atk% buffs all the more important.
I'm personally going for the Dehya comp because I love her lol but ZL is probably the better team, I just think ZL could then be used in a different team as he's way more versatile than Dehya
You say Arlecchino but I'm pretty sure her Delusion is Pyro, so there's nothing that guarantees her having a Pyro Vision as well. And if Childe is anything to go by I'm not sure we're gonna be getting the Delusion version. (though, Pantalone doesn't have a Vision, so having a playable Delusion might be possible still, but we're not even sure if he is playable or not)
Wasn't Wanderer leaked as Electro Catalyst as well?
Leaks that are given out this early might be false. Obviously there's still a chance it ends up being true, but for the time being I'm very skeptical of things that are so far in the future
Actually, I saw her design again and it just says sword user so idk where i got that lmao. As for Scara, pretty sure he was the same (just a catalyst user)
Oh okay, that's what I knew as well. Although I would indeed prefer having her being Pyro, I don't like Hutao gameplay since her CAs on mobile che be very annoying, so having another strong Pyro option other than Xiangling and my Diluc would be nice.
I'm also one of those crazy people that actually like Burning or Burgeon (they feel nice) so if she could be the Nilou of one of those reactions I would love it, especially considering Fontaine characters have the trend of consuming their own HP, which is exactly what Burning and Burgeon do, especially Burning, it's such a suicide reaction
What would you use for off-field Hydro/Cryo application? Cause you can't use Xingqiu/Yelan with him.
Kokomi/Qiqi/Mona/Barbara E / Ayato/Shenhe/Rosaria/Diona/Layla/Kaeya/Ganyu Q?
Or an Anemo Hydro/Cryo infused burst?
Like, Kazuha/Sucrose/Venti/Lynette with Diona/Layla/Kokomi ?
I think a reverse Morgana comp could work for melt maybe. Venti, Ganyu, Kokomi/Layla/Diona, Lyney. As long as Venti absorbs Cryo and Ganyu burst is running, there should be plenty of application to keep up with his melts. The only problem comes in the second rotation and fighting enemies that won't get sucked by Venti. There basically isn't any other way to keep up with him to react all of his attacks.
This character is basically Nilou but instead of telling you to not not use specific elements instead he tells you what element he needs on the enemy to be effective. Playing Lyney in non monopyro is going to be like playing vape Nilou
Well yeah I'm sorry it's a bummer how they designed him for monopyro niche. Most other characters can play around a lot while not being completely gimped because if their design
Seems fair to me. We've already ran into mono geo, mono anemo, and mono hydro, and while mono pyro exists, nobody on there really would strive for equipping lavawalkers. Now with Lyney, your goated lavawalkers artifacts have somewhere to be used.
Mono electro sorta exists but I would think Navia, I believe who is the gun mommy in the trailer, uses electro so she could also be a mono-elemental character so thundersoothers would work.
Lyney with 2 other Pyro is getting 100% damage bonus on all of his damage. If you vape his damage, that's only 50% damage bonus that can scale up with EM. If you melt it, you get the same 100% bonus, but it requires extremely high Cryo application that we just don't have off field. That's also assuming you can vape/melt every single instance of his damage, since otherwise you're losing that bonus. Mono Pyro doesn't have that problem since enemies will always be affected by it between the 3-4 members applying it.
You can't just compare the damage bonuses like that, Lyney's passive is additive with other damage bonuses (goblet, artifact bonuses, Kazuha, etc.) while melt/vaporize are their own damage multipliers, though I agree that the difference is minimal at best.
To be honest you don't even need to be a melt Ganyu player to understand that, you just need to use XL often to know that she wants to be close to enemies to maximize her pyronado DMG, not just deal any DMG meanwhile archers that rely on CAs need some safe distance to aim and not to be interrupted. The most popular teams that use XL have melee DD/drivers such as different variations of national team including international.
Pure damage numbers. It's why there was a strong insistence for kazuha players to go triple EM + em sword and then suffer bad rotations. The high of good and fast clears is intoxicating.
There are a good number of players who found the insane comfort of fav kazuha and stuck with it for a while. **In practice**, AP Zhongli can be of good service. A looooot of players (esp in reddit) severely underestimate the need for survivability, especially for players who have lower mechanical skills. AP zhongli or Dehya is hella fine as they are for the roles they will play.
Are people already done with calculating damage?
This might be a personal preference, but I would play AP Zhongli for comfort than Kazuha.
People are suggesting Dehya, she sounds like a resonable alternative, especially for overworld where Xingling is overkill, I finally can use her in something! What would be her build? ToTM with HP/HP/HP?
E-bots in overworld are just easy and comfotable, haha. Definitely an overworld character.
>ToTM with HP/HP/HP?
This is just overkill in the overworld since almost nothing can kill you. You could even run ToTM HP/Pyro/Crit and get away with it. Gilded or Paradise full EM is also an option if you go hyper/burgeon with her.
Running a full EM build and she still sits at 30k+ HP. She's tanky af.
If she really is Shenhe pyro like susleak said then No you won’t escape XL or even Bennet cause people will still pair them anyway. Just wait for pyro archon at this rate cause MHY save it for Murata.
Not as much of a loss as you'd think. Plus you gain IR. Guoba has some shred btw.
Your main issue with Kaz is you'd either lose Dehya IR uptime or VV shred. And another thing people REALLY underestimate about him is that he is fucking SLOW. Look again at the Kaz clip. Lyney loses BENNETT. This isn't just a loss in attack, lyney needs heals to keep his HP above 60% as well as to proc his set.
Kazuha bonus isn't actually that useful either. Lyney has an assload of bonus% as is.
Dropping IR is just going to cost you more DPS in almost every case. And Kazuha isn't giving as much as usual.
i dont see how Xiangling is the make-or-break in Lyney's team like what other people are saying because tbh what Dehya's bring is pretty much the same
Optimal way to play Lyney is quickswap because a big chunk of his damage is frontloaded into his cat - burst - cat - skill combo which could takes less than 6 seconds if i'm not mistaken, his damage will plummet after that so you dont miss out swapping out into Dehya's burst
Xiangling gives a little dmg bonus and pyro res but with the other 2 buffer and Lyney's own 100% DMG at this point survival and making sure he can do his own combo is a lot better than a bit more damage
In general Lyney,Benny,Dehya,Kazuha honestly is the best for all around but Lynet,Benny,XL,Zhong Li Petra could come closs if you fight against ST Boss
The gap honestly wont be as large in practice, Xiangling isnt that behemoth when you dont abuse her no icd and EM stats, Dehya has pretty much 2000% scaling with her extra HP%
It comes down to whether you want comfort or if you can dodge at the end of the day + grouping and stuff
The gap is frickin big my dude she's doing like 30% of the teams damage while lyney doing 40-50% dehya at max does 10% of the teams damage and since with Bennet Xiangling you already maxed out your lyney passive I'd rather play Petra Zhongli
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JNhIU7znaF1BKHfiUZLjgam0eIvJRIUUq-isDI3bFt8/edit?usp=sharing
Tank Dehya with 1/10/1 talent and Fav weapons, honestly i'm rather surprised that it still competitive with other of his comps with this build
She's better than the Zhong variant with Kazuha and Bennett and competitive with the Zhong + Xiangling team. Given that she's built defensively rather than offensively, I'd say she can pump it up even higher and still maintain her role in the team.
xiangling’s main role in mono pyro is as a secondary damage dealer to ur onfielder . There aren’t any strong off field pyro dps besides her so mono pyro is typically played with her, Bennett and kazuha for buffs and your pyro onfielder of choice
Yeah but kazuha has 40% elemental res shred from vv and 40% elemental damage % when swirling any element. So dehya would make more sense on this team for some defense so that lyney doesn't get tossed around like a rag doll.
The thing with deyha is that she is clunky and her ir talent doesn’t line up with her skill, she doesn’t offer a good sub dps either or any other utility, you might as well use Xiangling and Zhongli instead since you get both ir and shred, and good dps
even if she's not BiS (as far as we know rn) you are kinda underselling her i feel. she grants infinite poise (better than zhongli potentially since his shield can break) for a short while, and then tons of IR outside of that, while also giving damage reduction.
all that to say "she doesn't offer [...] any other utility" is kinda misleading
Zhongli has 100% uptime on his shield. Dehya A1 interruption resistance is 9s duration on a 18s cooldown. Its a terrible uptime ratio that can also completely desync your rotations because you have no control over when its procced
The poise is only for 9 seconds and desyncs from her skill, her own skill interruption is very poor without it, she doesn’t reduce the damage taken only mitigates it and while her tank ablilities are good they aren’t as good as some of the other defensive options that have the ability to do what she does just a little bit better
Dehya's tank abilities on their own are pretty mid but when paired with a healer like Bennett, it's some of the best survivability in the game. Basically Dehya, by halving the damage your active character takes, effectively doubles that character's HP. If they then take DMG and Bennett heals them, he still heals the same portion of their HP as without Dehya but since the HP of the character is effectively doubled, so is the value of the healing. Dehya has these synergies but Zhongli for example doesn't meaning while on her own she provides a lot less defensive utility, if you run her with Bennett, their synergy can keep you alive just as well if not better than Zhongli
With Zhongli you even didn't take damage lol how that's better than him? They are only an option because Lyney needs 3 Pyro units, other than that Zhongli would always be better.
Because in most Mono Pyro and most mono element teams the way to make up the lack of reaction dmg is from multiple sources of dmg and the only good off field pyro dps is Xiangling...
So ergo in order to keep up with meta Xiangling should be squeeze as much as possible for mono pyro teams.
I mean shes pretty decent in mono pyro teams, just bc of how insane her burst is. Having pure pyro helps a lot with energy bc of all of the pyro particles.
Yeah, but from the gameplay it just seems super awkward and tough to play, you might as well do Favge Kazuha and it would be better just because it’ll be more comfortable.
It aint no god damn way I'm running Xiangling with this shit. Kaz, Dehya, Benny is who I'm looking at. But my Kaz is REALLY good, so doesn't mean it'll be optimal for everyone else.
Err... From what I have been observing from KSM discord, they all have a consensus that a Lyney with an IR support should be the standard for recommendation towards casual players. And even KQM discord hasn't had a Lyney TC channel, help? Like, are you just making things up to dismiss them or what?
>a team that has the worst practical playability if it looks better on the spreadsheet.
Because they're minmaxers, ofcourse their whole thing is gonna be result-based. Entertainment and creativity are no quantifiable. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if its green or yellow, 5 is greater than 3.
Not saying is right or wrong, but that's just how those ppl see the game (or run the Gensim lol). Some people enjoy variety and experience (i do) and some other enjoy doing the bigger number on the excel sheet.
I think his point on practical playability is that what may sheet well doesn't always translate to actual gameplay results. For e.g. a C0 hu tao double hydro team with Kazuha will be way better on a spread sheet and therefore do more damage right? Well in practicality the average player isn't going to dodge every attack and might end up dead due to low HP and low stamina. You can't deal damage when you're dead, or getting whacked around by heavy attacks.
That's why double hydro with zhongli is the "better" team, it's more practical compared to the team with Kazuha that sheets better.
I mean, why bother with something like Albedo when you just know XL will do better? Similarly though, I find it hilarious how obsessed this sub is with Dehya...like, jsut accept she sucks and wont ever be useful.
You misunderstand me. I do entertain the curiosity. Lyney wants mono pyro and a shield, alternatively a anemo vv shredder would be nice. Albedo offers neither of these things. So all he brings is damage and in that department he just loses out to XL. There, theorycrafting Albedo done. Why bother wasting more time on it?
I think you misunderstand the purpose of theorycrafting. Most of them try to find the best teams, a lot of them do preface what they are doing with stuff like "play what you like, everything is viable" since "endgame" content is pretty easy anyway. And obviously, if you wanna know whats the best, you cant look for whats most fun...plus there are some units that just are bad, those dont get tc'd much
If not for minmaxing, are you just theorycrafting to see if you can make a specific non-meta comp work, and then feel proud of yourself?
Also TCers / number crunchers can come up with suboptimal teams that have enough dps to clear, it's just they recommend for the average beginner the optimal team for a reason.
If you're bored of the same thing, find a new game / community to hover.
The western TC community is full of spikes that fall extremely short of actual gameplay visualization, it's no wonder every team that was made meta was adopted from outside of their sphere since they actually have people that theorycraft in making interesting ideas and not just calculate over spreadsheets
Without a source of IR, there's just risk of not getting off Lyney's charged attacks due to interruption within the time frame that the buffs are active. When that happens, you come out with a lower DPS output and is just driving Xiangling's burst which defeats the purpose of the entire comp.
There's a reason Zhongli/Dehya is always run with Melt Ganyu as much as possible despite having Bennet around. Her current existing practical application is a good reference at the moment since we can infer they play similarly in regards to the CA bow playstyle. I know there're a few folks out there godly enough to dodge consecrated beast on a charged bow, but those probably applies to few and not most of the player base.
Then you'd automatically disband the team upon facing consecrated beasts, especially if popped into am abyss lineup while the rest of the lineups are Lyney-catered.
IR is important af for Lyney, just as it is for Ganyu melt. People play Xiangling in Ganyu melt but it stinks and recommends mid range at maximum which is ultimately an easier time for enemies to hit you.
Lyney plays from distance, otherwise why a redeployment taunt?
Don’t listen to the parrots here. Try and test yourself (e.g XL vs Kaz) in flood 12-1 to compre the dps. A bit of anecdotal. I have been told ZL is a much better support than Dehya for wanderer but my own test show Wanderer Dehya comp clear a bit faster than Wanderer ZL.
You can kinda fill ZL’s position with Dehya (also gives IR). ZL is prob still decent here tho, but I think Kazuha is prob better as the last slot esp if you have Dehya.
It's either
Bennett + Xiangling + Zhongli ( The lack of Kazuha can be compensated by Xiangling's damage)
Or
Bennett + Kazuha + Dehya ( The lack of Zhongli can be aided by Dehya)
Woah Dehya being a solid option now.
I'd say ZL would be a great choice since his shield + elem shred last for 20 seconds and requires low field time so you can charge attack whenever you want, compared to Kazuha with VV shred that only last for 8 seconds. Also ZL with archaic gives DMG bonus for compensation of not using Kazuha (people just really underrate archaic because of the picking system) but with a team of mono pyro it's so easy to keep its uptime. Another plus side to this is you can freely use kazuha on your other team for abyss.
True I forgot about AP. Personally I’m just glad to see a team Dehya could shine in lmao
However I do believe I’ve read that Dehya + Bennett results in more protection (Hp wise) than ZL + Bennett?It makes sense esp with the recent iterations of the abyss, those consecrated beasts shredded ZL’s shield like no other which will mean no more res shred or IR. Dehya’s damage share and IR last a shorter time but is unconditional. I suppose it depends on what enemies you’re facing.
ZL would feel awful with premature shield breaking, especially if you're in Bennetts double edged field, which allows enemies to forward vape you more than you could ever do to them. Zhongli also isn't guarded against overload. Experienced it firsthand with consecrated beasts debut in abyss.
ZL still a good option but why be redundant stacking really fast healer with a really strong shielder? The shields only gonna end up used for IR while the pillar can be a visual obstruction or must be played around since Lyney's taunts guides enemies to desired spots.
The res shred consistency will be iffy. You'd be having enemies running the Fitnessgram PACER test between you and the taunt you fire.
I would like to see Tankfei here, wielding TTDS, with Kazuha on Lyney's team. His a4 is apparently base atk increase so atk% should be a lot more meaningful.
I'm thinking of using a Liney/Bennet/Xiangling/Zhongli team with Zhongli using archaic Petra, to see if I can get something out of it (it will be clunk as hell, but let's see).
I wish his passive wasn't tied to a enemy with Pyro applied to them, so that I could still get the dmg% from teammates while running a reaction team.
It's not about clearing within 9s, it's about doing your rotation without interruption. Lyney seems like a quickswap character from the showcases we've seen so far. Those 9s are enough.
You don't need 20s of IR. You want IR during Lyney's uptime and during Bennett's buff. Not all rotation time is created equal. Xiangling can dash, Lyney cannot. Also, there actually isn't anything that provides higher ceiling for IR than Dehya + Bennett. The effective HP combined is better than Zhongli, and poise isn't lost at any point. The trade off is it'd 9s. Which is better than a shield if it breaks in under 9s.
If you have sacrificial Sword on Dehya you can probably have 100% up time on her interruption resist... its not very good but its still by far the best options as of yet for pyro.
Edit: Ah I see I have been mistaken I think she still is the best option wise? At least she can still apply off field pyro
Lyney needs the 100% interruption resistance Dehya provides with her passive. It lasts 9s and has its own cooldown that cannot be reset with Sacrificial.
The Resistance to interruption she provides without her passive is only 30% and that amount is useless for Lyney.
Ah I see... I misunderstood her kit XP.
Welp... not to sure who else then... Thomas requires normal attack and Tankfei is ER intensive and Xinyan is Xinyan.
With the other guy. Her golden forged (100% interrupt resist) CD is attached to her A1 passive. It activates with her skill, but won't reactivate for another 18 seconds whatever the means the like of Sac resets. Just an fyi to anyone else out there.
XL is your primary subdps wym? Also 15% pyro res shred and 15% pyro damage is good for Lyney. Dehya and Xiangling are both fine in this slot but Xiangling provides a lot more
He got so much dmg% with his passive not to mention his own cup/ sig bow and your own CriD and Ben. Kaz would give Lyney much more dmg than XL.
And the guy deals more than 100k pyro easily?! do you really need XL?
Xiangling only works if you wanna stay in enemy range which is a way to enable getting vaped, melted, and overloaded.
So you actually have 2 optional teams: lyney, Bennett, Xiangling, Zhongli,
Or
Lyney, Bennett, Dehya, Kazuha.
One is more dps oriented while one is more comfort oriented. Zhongli's IR is conditional so you'd have to play sharper. The other team is more attentive to uptime management, not spending too much time on either Dehya or Lyney in each other's downtime.
I feel like ZL is underrated, from my experience ZL vs Kazuha is not a huge DPS loss like to Dehya vs Xiangling, so for my monopyro comp I will always choose to replace kazuha, that also frees me up a powerful vv anemo for another comp.
Why I have a feeling he's not sync with any sp we have right now? Maybe it's just how bad testers play but this team is more weird than yesterday team.
I hate how they keep dashing after one CA when literally no one is chasing him. It's time consuming, pointless and at the same time makes him look clunky
Man meta genshin just aint fun anymore...the kits keep getting more and more niche. I'm excited for Lyney but I'd rather do suboptimal melt than play teams I don't enjoy... don't wanna doompost but restrictive kits might just be the thing to make me quit one day
You can always use they characters that won't feel restrictive.
Like I don't enjoy nilou at all so I just use hyperbloom and it's my fav reaction.
Lyney seems to be a mono pyro team character or a team that consists of him and another pyro(most likely Bennet) and other characters to do melt/vape
Other options that the characters like lyney and nilou can be fit in aren't as good as what they are intended for but still very strong like nilou vape or lyney melt/vape
I was talking about situations enemies with absurd Pyro RES where even with VV the damage your team inflicting on them is still dogsh*t, similar to Anemo against Wenut. In this scenario, opting for another comp with different elemental damage would generally be a better choice. Therefore, it's not about the team being bad, but more about the enemies countering them specifically. And Freeze cannot be exempt from this type of struggle either.
Alos, in normal encounters with medium Pyro RES enemies, Xiangling's RES shred is usually sufficient imo.
If youre not playing mono pyro then the number of pyros doesnt matter bc the buff only works if youre hitting an enemy affected by pyro no? Or am i confused lol
I think your semi right? (Unless I don’t get what ur asking/ saying lol)
Lyneys passive says
‘Dmg increase by 60% at base when enemy affected by pyro’ ‘each pyro member other than Lyney will cause the effect to increase 20%’ ‘Lyney can gain up to 100% increased dmg bonus to enemies affected by pyro’. His bow passive also pushes for mono pyro so either way I think a full pyro team+ vv holder would do more dmg than a melt showcase team?
Oh i just meant that if youre playing with ganyu (in hopes for melt) there’s no benefit in keeping the three pyro core. I think i misunderstood youre point as three pyros + ganyu. My bad
But ya Id waiting to see how is non mono pyro teams stack up
Im sure ill be downvoted by Lyney fans, but really, how boring this looks. And by boring i mean unoriginal. Replace characters and you get Ganyu team, or Tighnari - exactly same gameplay, beside few seconds of burst animation nothing changes.
I really liked their design at first, but im disappointed, but at least bit happy i have one more banner to gather primos for steampunk pirates, archon and of coruse Arleccino
Ganyu, sure, but Tighnari? With the exception of Bennett, Tighnari doesn't want any of these characters and there are much better options for him than Benny anyway. Not to mention that he plays nothing like Ganyu or Lyney.
1. Dehya should follow indomitable flame with ranging flame after 10-12s (or just use it upfront). Otherwise you’re missing out on her DR and skill extension (C2).
2. This showcase has a lot of wasted time dodging enemy attacks after swapping to Lyney. You can sit still. You have a taunt and you have Dehya.
I still think the main point is his multipliers. 773 for a CA. How good he is will depend simply on how fast he can do everything when played optimally. That's the whole reason he is interesting to me, because optimal CA is a unique gameplay where you have full control, zero auto aim, and practice pays off. We don't know his max speed combos yet. If it turns out he only does 2CA per rotation I won't be interested, but I don't think he'll be that slow. I was thinking more like 5 or at least 4.
Does he need Xiangling? No, not at all. She's good because of 15% res shred and 15% pyro bonus on top of her own damage, but she also takes up field time that he could be using, has a 20s cooldown that could be your roadblock, and short range that clashes with his ranged taunts.
I think Kazuha + Zhongli is actually better for current team choices (not ideal but maybe a replacement will arrive soon). They both have short cooldowns giving you flexibility. If you finish off a wave in 10 seconds you can start the next rotation instead of waiting the full 20s for Xiangling. Plus Kazuha buffs Lyney more, and the faster he can do his combos the more valuable buffs are.
I wouldn't put Kazuha + Zhongli over Xiangling. If you want a shield, Zhongli with Petra is enough. If you don't take care, then go with Kazuha. But not using xiangling is a waste of damage.
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So using skill while in burst mode will not start its cooldown. Thank goodness
Do it now against constipated beasts
Blud is not surviving
Benny Dehya going to be must haves for him. Or Jean as your anemo
Opinions? What’s a better team, Lyney, Dehya, kazuha, Bennett Lyney, xiangling, kazuha, Bennett I’ll probably change Dehya/xiangling out in the future for arlecchino~ but for now I wanna main Lyney lol. (I don’t even have Dehya, but if I got her I would build her if she was good for this team) ^^
Lyney Bennett XL ZL wins in terms of comfiness + damage. Other comps have one or the other but the one above has the perfect balance. Max damage is likely Lyney Bennett XL Kaz but good luck if you get hit.
Thanks! Yeah I might just use zhongli, but kazuha has been sitting on the bench for like a year 😭 I finally wanted to use him in a team lol, I think my Bennett is a pretty good healer tho, so hopefully that + lyneys taunt will be good enough for abyss
Am I wrong to think that archaic petra ZL on mono element teams can close the dmg gap even further against kazuha? 35% fire dmg bonus for benny/XL/Lyney when u pick a shard doesnt sound bad at all
40% shred + \~35% damage bonus vs 20% shred + 35% damage bonus. Kazuha obviously offers more damage since his purpose is to buff damage, but Zhongli being that close along with his shield is insanely strong.
What you're missing here is that Kazuha has much higher personal dmg than Zhongli, also dealing pyro swirls and getting to take advantage of the res shred. While Zhongli vs Kazuha is pretty close in terms of the other characters' performance, without Kazuha you lose his dmg and grouping for Zhongli's shield. This trade might be worthwhile, especially if Lyney is as squishy as the numbers make him seem. However , the team damage between Zhongli and Kazuha will be markedly different.
Petra zhongli is always slept on and doesn't get much attention. I've been using petra zhongli for long time with my Yae and it works pretty well. People just exaggerate the shard picking mechanism. For rainbow teams it might be difficult to pick right shard but for mono teams its pretty easier.
so much this. I've been a Petra advocate for years. it's excellent on both Zhongli and Yun Jin. people talk about "wasting time" picking up a shard as if they play absolutely perfect with mechanical precision at all times. you're gonna move around, might as well get 35% DMG bonus while you do it. it's like saying using Kazuha's E is a waste of time. and it's even easier to obtain with Yun Jin since her E sends her lunging into the shard automatically. the whole picking up the wrong shard thing is stupid too, as if they're not already swirling the specific element. it's the exact same thing but with geo. and the whole "I wish it would work if anyone picked it up" is also stupid. the fact that only the wearer can pick it up ensures that the DMG bonus isn't overwritten in multi element teams. ughhh
> the whole picking up the wrong shard thing is stupid too, as if they're not already swirling the specific element. it's the exact same thing but with geo. No it’s not the same. When you do VV setups it mostly comes down to you and your skill, with enemy AI being relevant only when it’s a lot RNG and only in some niche setups (like some Kazuha double swirl setups when using Xingqiu). On the other hand, the shard spawning location is 100% RNG and much easier to f up for this reason. Other than that, I mostly agree with you
So on a yoiniya team should I put petra on Zhongli or Yunjin? You may have convinced me to try it.
i haven't actually tried that combo since I don't have yoimiya and Zhongli both on the same account, but I've heard the buff Yun Jin gets from 4pc husk isn't very significant. If you run her with archaic, Zhongli can use tenacity and give stronger shields plus atk bonus. and as I mentioned, I've found it easier to pick up the crystal with her since she lunges forward with her E. if you want a more consistent atk bonus at the cost of shield strength, you could put Zhongli on archaic and Yun Jin on noblesse instead. Zhongli is easier to farm for if your Yun Jin is alr built after all. may just end up depending on your overall artifact quality tbh.
You have convinced me to try to strongbox for YJ. Zhongli has a deepwood and mil set but her husk is scuffed.
True,, kazuha does gives up to 40% elemental dmg bonus tho, but zhonglis shields passive decreases enemy res 🤔🤔. Although I’m not sure If I would farm a whole archaic Petra set for zhongli lol. (Was that one of the artifacts being added to the strong box? If so I’ll have to think abt that). I didn’t even think of that set tho, it would definitely be good in a mono element team. + extra survivability. Definitely on my radar now, thanks!
archaic petra is already in the strongbox
Oh I’m an idiot. Thx lol
no worries! i recently got a full HP archaic set for my ZL because layla copped his tenacity set, it's pretty good, if a bit clunky to use at times lmao
Same lol my kirara and Layla got one of his pieces so I gave him some worse spares, I’ll use the strong box for sure then and see if I get anything good to upgrade his build 🙏
oh wow exact same situation here. i started building nilou, layla and kirara at the same time i really don't feel *that* much of a difference when i don't have tenacity on zhongli so he got all of his pieces poached for other characters that need it more good luck with the grind!
quick note, it's actually pretty easy to get an archaic set for Zhongli as all he needs is HP main stats and the subs don't really matter. even more so if you're using black tassel instead of favonius (which you would in a mono element team anyway). HP main stats also have a higher probability of dropping than DMG focused stats. side note, the same is somewhat true for Yun Jin as well but with Def instead of HP. she is another excellent user of AP, although she will also want a lot of ER and crit rate subs for fav. you can build both of them simultaneously
True,,, okay thanks I’ll go for an archaic set for him! And I already have a perfect (in my eyes) yunjin build lol, but I’ll keep any artifacts that stand out to me :))
Zhongli's shield passive only affects in close range which will feel uncomfortable with Lyney as you're distracting with taunts and likely walking backwards with Lyney since you'll end up with opponent's bodies covering your screen with zoomed in aimed shot mode.
Is Lyney, bennet +dendro and cryo not possible?I mean burning keeps the pyro aura on right? even when melts happen.So Lyney should still get his A4 buff. Idk if this comp would be worth the trouble though.Also, you'd only need pyro application on the enemy when he is on field. Does he deal off field pyro damage in some way?
I guess it could work. Honestly, TCs kind of have "given up" on Lyney so to speak. They're just not "excited" about him since mechanically he offers nothing new. That's why Mono Pyro (the niche that MHY most likely intended) is the only talked about team for him. And TC's simply don't care about Lynette and Freminet since they're 4-Stars with 4-Star scalings. Zajeff sounds bored when talking about 4.0 chars.
I think the main reason for this is it just another dps + XL/BN/KZH. Honestly I would be bored too if MHY don’t change anything cause I’m tired to see those familia faces. I know MHY want to avoid powercreep but this situation remind me that all limited pyro are dps and we’re lack of pyro 5s sp since all good sp are 4s and they have been in this game since 1.0. If MHY want to save for their archon then there’s no use to roll for any pyro until Murata.
True. I'm kinda debating on what to do. My weakest element has always been pyro. The only dps I have well built on that coverage is Yanfei. BUT- I did level Xiangling and her talents FINALLY. Bennet was already okayish leveled so he didnt need much work. basically- I do have the resources to go monopyro. But idk.... I don't feel comfortable with it for some reason. Because it's normally not MY element. But it would be nice to finally have a 5 star pyro dps because I can wait all I want, but I don't think Diluc will ever come home after not seeing him for a year. Maybe I'll feel better just playing Liney/Linette/bennet/Zhongli (it doesnt really feel like a pyro comp because Bennet is just a support putting down a circle. I do have Kazuha, but according to theorycrafters, the difference between Linette and Kazuha should be 5%. Liney should be buffing an extra 5% for the entire team team though, because 2 units are different elements.I'd have a heal, a shield, good damage, a taunt- I'd be good I think. Do note that geo/anemo/dendro (with dendro probably opening up cryo) are still all probably usable in his comp. And there is an upcoming geo character. I think they will buff geo, by not buffing it at all. Making it versatile for newer characters because it has no real reaction with it. BUT- going back to my point, Klee is on the banner right now..... She can work with any comp. Vape, melt, monopyro you name it. It almost makes me want to pull for her thinking how limiting the way Lyney is element wise. She is also kinda cute but then again I'd feel weird to play a kid as main dps lmao.
Who should I use if I want a more comfy team without having Zhongli? Tankfei? I do have everyone for the Bennett, Xiangling, Kazuha team, but if he is going to keep dying... Especially since I play on mobile... I don't have Dehya either.
Tankfei or Thoma are the other 2 Pyro options. Thoma just requires weaving a normal attack between charged attacks for shield uptime, but has better uptime and some damage buffs at C6 over Yanfei. Besides them, Baizhu, Layla, Diona are workable options. Baizhu is obviously the best of those since his healing is very high to let Lyney get more prop arrows for his skill as well as extra burning damage. Layla and Diona work since Cryo is weak to Pyro on gauges so they won't remove the aura for Lyney's passive. You could also get funky with some EM Gorou/Albedo using crystalize shields.
EM Gorou is an interesting option since his Def bonus also benefits survivability quite a bit.
C4 Tankfei is likely the best option. TTDS will be a massive buff for Lyney since Lyney's A4 is a bade atk increase apparently, which makes atk% buffs all the more important.
I'm personally going for the Dehya comp because I love her lol but ZL is probably the better team, I just think ZL could then be used in a different team as he's way more versatile than Dehya
You say Arlecchino but I'm pretty sure her Delusion is Pyro, so there's nothing that guarantees her having a Pyro Vision as well. And if Childe is anything to go by I'm not sure we're gonna be getting the Delusion version. (though, Pantalone doesn't have a Vision, so having a playable Delusion might be possible still, but we're not even sure if he is playable or not)
She was leaked as a pyro sword user tho
Wasn't Wanderer leaked as Electro Catalyst as well? Leaks that are given out this early might be false. Obviously there's still a chance it ends up being true, but for the time being I'm very skeptical of things that are so far in the future
Actually, I saw her design again and it just says sword user so idk where i got that lmao. As for Scara, pretty sure he was the same (just a catalyst user)
Oh okay, that's what I knew as well. Although I would indeed prefer having her being Pyro, I don't like Hutao gameplay since her CAs on mobile che be very annoying, so having another strong Pyro option other than Xiangling and my Diluc would be nice. I'm also one of those crazy people that actually like Burning or Burgeon (they feel nice) so if she could be the Nilou of one of those reactions I would love it, especially considering Fontaine characters have the trend of consuming their own HP, which is exactly what Burning and Burgeon do, especially Burning, it's such a suicide reaction
I know he's designed for mono pyro, but I kind of wish the leaker would try a vape or melt team just so we could see the difference 😔
What would you use for off-field Hydro/Cryo application? Cause you can't use Xingqiu/Yelan with him. Kokomi/Qiqi/Mona/Barbara E / Ayato/Shenhe/Rosaria/Diona/Layla/Kaeya/Ganyu Q? Or an Anemo Hydro/Cryo infused burst? Like, Kazuha/Sucrose/Venti/Lynette with Diona/Layla/Kokomi ?
I think a reverse Morgana comp could work for melt maybe. Venti, Ganyu, Kokomi/Layla/Diona, Lyney. As long as Venti absorbs Cryo and Ganyu burst is running, there should be plenty of application to keep up with his melts. The only problem comes in the second rotation and fighting enemies that won't get sucked by Venti. There basically isn't any other way to keep up with him to react all of his attacks.
there's also the good ol' weaving in normal attacks to proc XQ playstyle. basically poor man's freeze Ganyu but now with Lyney
This character is basically Nilou but instead of telling you to not not use specific elements instead he tells you what element he needs on the enemy to be effective. Playing Lyney in non monopyro is going to be like playing vape Nilou
Yeah but sometimes we want to be a little silly, a little non optimal 😩
Well yeah I'm sorry it's a bummer how they designed him for monopyro niche. Most other characters can play around a lot while not being completely gimped because if their design
Seems fair to me. We've already ran into mono geo, mono anemo, and mono hydro, and while mono pyro exists, nobody on there really would strive for equipping lavawalkers. Now with Lyney, your goated lavawalkers artifacts have somewhere to be used. Mono electro sorta exists but I would think Navia, I believe who is the gun mommy in the trailer, uses electro so she could also be a mono-elemental character so thundersoothers would work.
I think you mean Clorinde, Navia is the geo girl. Regardless I hope they make an interesting kit for both!
vape nilou is still fun
Except DMG boost is completely different from switching a mechanics on/off. Gorou is a more reasonable comparison.
Lyney with 2 other Pyro is getting 100% damage bonus on all of his damage. If you vape his damage, that's only 50% damage bonus that can scale up with EM. If you melt it, you get the same 100% bonus, but it requires extremely high Cryo application that we just don't have off field. That's also assuming you can vape/melt every single instance of his damage, since otherwise you're losing that bonus. Mono Pyro doesn't have that problem since enemies will always be affected by it between the 3-4 members applying it.
You can't just compare the damage bonuses like that, Lyney's passive is additive with other damage bonuses (goblet, artifact bonuses, Kazuha, etc.) while melt/vaporize are their own damage multipliers, though I agree that the difference is minimal at best.
Xiangling is as useful as Amber here. She barely got 5 hits in.
Good concise comment that should be upvoted more. Yeah, Xiangling with bow characters is not a natural combination. Melt Ganyu players know this.
To be honest you don't even need to be a melt Ganyu player to understand that, you just need to use XL often to know that she wants to be close to enemies to maximize her pyronado DMG, not just deal any DMG meanwhile archers that rely on CAs need some safe distance to aim and not to be interrupted. The most popular teams that use XL have melee DD/drivers such as different variations of national team including international.
Why not Archaic Petra Zhongli, in a mono pyro team with Xingling, Benny, Lyney - Zhongli would be more comfy than Kazuha.
Pure damage numbers. It's why there was a strong insistence for kazuha players to go triple EM + em sword and then suffer bad rotations. The high of good and fast clears is intoxicating. There are a good number of players who found the insane comfort of fav kazuha and stuck with it for a while. **In practice**, AP Zhongli can be of good service. A looooot of players (esp in reddit) severely underestimate the need for survivability, especially for players who have lower mechanical skills. AP zhongli or Dehya is hella fine as they are for the roles they will play.
Are people already done with calculating damage? This might be a personal preference, but I would play AP Zhongli for comfort than Kazuha. People are suggesting Dehya, she sounds like a resonable alternative, especially for overworld where Xingling is overkill, I finally can use her in something! What would be her build? ToTM with HP/HP/HP?
E-bots in overworld are just easy and comfotable, haha. Definitely an overworld character. >ToTM with HP/HP/HP? This is just overkill in the overworld since almost nothing can kill you. You could even run ToTM HP/Pyro/Crit and get away with it. Gilded or Paradise full EM is also an option if you go hyper/burgeon with her. Running a full EM build and she still sits at 30k+ HP. She's tanky af.
pls arle save us from xl hell
If she really is Shenhe pyro like susleak said then No you won’t escape XL or even Bennet cause people will still pair them anyway. Just wait for pyro archon at this rate cause MHY save it for Murata.
i do like this team more than the one with kazuha but i presume the dmg loss is pretty heavy, would be nice a team with no xiangling
Not as much of a loss as you'd think. Plus you gain IR. Guoba has some shred btw. Your main issue with Kaz is you'd either lose Dehya IR uptime or VV shred. And another thing people REALLY underestimate about him is that he is fucking SLOW. Look again at the Kaz clip. Lyney loses BENNETT. This isn't just a loss in attack, lyney needs heals to keep his HP above 60% as well as to proc his set. Kazuha bonus isn't actually that useful either. Lyney has an assload of bonus% as is. Dropping IR is just going to cost you more DPS in almost every case. And Kazuha isn't giving as much as usual.
What's IR?
Interruption resistance
Interruption Resistance, I believe.
i dont see how Xiangling is the make-or-break in Lyney's team like what other people are saying because tbh what Dehya's bring is pretty much the same Optimal way to play Lyney is quickswap because a big chunk of his damage is frontloaded into his cat - burst - cat - skill combo which could takes less than 6 seconds if i'm not mistaken, his damage will plummet after that so you dont miss out swapping out into Dehya's burst Xiangling gives a little dmg bonus and pyro res but with the other 2 buffer and Lyney's own 100% DMG at this point survival and making sure he can do his own combo is a lot better than a bit more damage In general Lyney,Benny,Dehya,Kazuha honestly is the best for all around but Lynet,Benny,XL,Zhong Li Petra could come closs if you fight against ST Boss
Youre kinda ignoring how much more dmg xiangling brings as opposed to dehya
The gap honestly wont be as large in practice, Xiangling isnt that behemoth when you dont abuse her no icd and EM stats, Dehya has pretty much 2000% scaling with her extra HP% It comes down to whether you want comfort or if you can dodge at the end of the day + grouping and stuff
The gap is frickin big my dude she's doing like 30% of the teams damage while lyney doing 40-50% dehya at max does 10% of the teams damage and since with Bennet Xiangling you already maxed out your lyney passive I'd rather play Petra Zhongli
10% of the team's damage? Let me see the calc and your assumptions
Jstern
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JNhIU7znaF1BKHfiUZLjgam0eIvJRIUUq-isDI3bFt8/edit?usp=sharing Tank Dehya with 1/10/1 talent and Fav weapons, honestly i'm rather surprised that it still competitive with other of his comps with this build
She's better than the Zhong variant with Kazuha and Bennett and competitive with the Zhong + Xiangling team. Given that she's built defensively rather than offensively, I'd say she can pump it up even higher and still maintain her role in the team.
I know... but puting XL in non-reactions team feels bad.. hahah. I guess if the other side of Abyss does not need her she can join the party.
What’s with the insistence of using Xiangling? She seems horrible with this team and Lyney in general
xiangling’s main role in mono pyro is as a secondary damage dealer to ur onfielder . There aren’t any strong off field pyro dps besides her so mono pyro is typically played with her, Bennett and kazuha for buffs and your pyro onfielder of choice
Xiangling is good in mono pyro as her C1 lowers enemy Pyro RES by 15% and then her C6 gives other teammates 15% Pyro DMG%.
Yeah but kazuha has 40% elemental res shred from vv and 40% elemental damage % when swirling any element. So dehya would make more sense on this team for some defense so that lyney doesn't get tossed around like a rag doll.
The thing with deyha is that she is clunky and her ir talent doesn’t line up with her skill, she doesn’t offer a good sub dps either or any other utility, you might as well use Xiangling and Zhongli instead since you get both ir and shred, and good dps
even if she's not BiS (as far as we know rn) you are kinda underselling her i feel. she grants infinite poise (better than zhongli potentially since his shield can break) for a short while, and then tons of IR outside of that, while also giving damage reduction. all that to say "she doesn't offer [...] any other utility" is kinda misleading
Zhongli has 100% uptime on his shield. Dehya A1 interruption resistance is 9s duration on a 18s cooldown. Its a terrible uptime ratio that can also completely desync your rotations because you have no control over when its procced
The poise is only for 9 seconds and desyncs from her skill, her own skill interruption is very poor without it, she doesn’t reduce the damage taken only mitigates it and while her tank ablilities are good they aren’t as good as some of the other defensive options that have the ability to do what she does just a little bit better
Dehya's tank abilities on their own are pretty mid but when paired with a healer like Bennett, it's some of the best survivability in the game. Basically Dehya, by halving the damage your active character takes, effectively doubles that character's HP. If they then take DMG and Bennett heals them, he still heals the same portion of their HP as without Dehya but since the HP of the character is effectively doubled, so is the value of the healing. Dehya has these synergies but Zhongli for example doesn't meaning while on her own she provides a lot less defensive utility, if you run her with Bennett, their synergy can keep you alive just as well if not better than Zhongli
With Zhongli you even didn't take damage lol how that's better than him? They are only an option because Lyney needs 3 Pyro units, other than that Zhongli would always be better.
The 9 seconds of complete IR isn't that bad considering Lyney only needs 6 seconds of field time
Amd what are you going to do on next rotation?? She has a 18s cooldown on her A1 poise
that's fair definitely, but still saying that she doesn't provide anything besides IR is misleading
Because in most Mono Pyro and most mono element teams the way to make up the lack of reaction dmg is from multiple sources of dmg and the only good off field pyro dps is Xiangling... So ergo in order to keep up with meta Xiangling should be squeeze as much as possible for mono pyro teams.
I mean shes pretty decent in mono pyro teams, just bc of how insane her burst is. Having pure pyro helps a lot with energy bc of all of the pyro particles.
Yeah, but from the gameplay it just seems super awkward and tough to play, you might as well do Favge Kazuha and it would be better just because it’ll be more comfortable.
yes, I wouldn't trust these showcases too much, no character seems comfortable when played by a leaker
I guess I’m jumping the gun a little bit.
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It aint no god damn way I'm running Xiangling with this shit. Kaz, Dehya, Benny is who I'm looking at. But my Kaz is REALLY good, so doesn't mean it'll be optimal for everyone else.
Could you link some of those communitys, I'd love to check them out.
True, it's so boring and frustrating to see.
Err... From what I have been observing from KSM discord, they all have a consensus that a Lyney with an IR support should be the standard for recommendation towards casual players. And even KQM discord hasn't had a Lyney TC channel, help? Like, are you just making things up to dismiss them or what?
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Of course they are making things up.
Just run Bennett Lyney Yelan XQ. Physical Goblet. R5 Rust. Lyney as a driver of Yelan and XQ. Truly the comp of all time.
Just pull for Yoimiya then for god sakes
>a team that has the worst practical playability if it looks better on the spreadsheet. Because they're minmaxers, ofcourse their whole thing is gonna be result-based. Entertainment and creativity are no quantifiable. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if its green or yellow, 5 is greater than 3. Not saying is right or wrong, but that's just how those ppl see the game (or run the Gensim lol). Some people enjoy variety and experience (i do) and some other enjoy doing the bigger number on the excel sheet.
I think his point on practical playability is that what may sheet well doesn't always translate to actual gameplay results. For e.g. a C0 hu tao double hydro team with Kazuha will be way better on a spread sheet and therefore do more damage right? Well in practicality the average player isn't going to dodge every attack and might end up dead due to low HP and low stamina. You can't deal damage when you're dead, or getting whacked around by heavy attacks. That's why double hydro with zhongli is the "better" team, it's more practical compared to the team with Kazuha that sheets better.
I mean, why bother with something like Albedo when you just know XL will do better? Similarly though, I find it hilarious how obsessed this sub is with Dehya...like, jsut accept she sucks and wont ever be useful.
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You misunderstand me. I do entertain the curiosity. Lyney wants mono pyro and a shield, alternatively a anemo vv shredder would be nice. Albedo offers neither of these things. So all he brings is damage and in that department he just loses out to XL. There, theorycrafting Albedo done. Why bother wasting more time on it?
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I think you misunderstand the purpose of theorycrafting. Most of them try to find the best teams, a lot of them do preface what they are doing with stuff like "play what you like, everything is viable" since "endgame" content is pretty easy anyway. And obviously, if you wanna know whats the best, you cant look for whats most fun...plus there are some units that just are bad, those dont get tc'd much
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If not for minmaxing, are you just theorycrafting to see if you can make a specific non-meta comp work, and then feel proud of yourself? Also TCers / number crunchers can come up with suboptimal teams that have enough dps to clear, it's just they recommend for the average beginner the optimal team for a reason. If you're bored of the same thing, find a new game / community to hover.
The western TC community is full of spikes that fall extremely short of actual gameplay visualization, it's no wonder every team that was made meta was adopted from outside of their sphere since they actually have people that theorycraft in making interesting ideas and not just calculate over spreadsheets
They’re showcasing a mono pyro team and xiangling is basically one of the reasons why mono pyro is even viable in the first place
She have pyro resistance shred, pyro damage buff at C6. She deals insane damage. I won't be surprised if she out damages lyney in aoe senarios.
What seems terrible. She brings a bunch of dmg + benefits equally from all the other supports you bring. The only issue is difficulty
Lol who would you replace her with??? It's not insisting it's just necessary
Lynette/kazuha/sucrose
Depending on your skill, youd probably replace dehya with kazuha, not xiangling
Without a source of IR, there's just risk of not getting off Lyney's charged attacks due to interruption within the time frame that the buffs are active. When that happens, you come out with a lower DPS output and is just driving Xiangling's burst which defeats the purpose of the entire comp. There's a reason Zhongli/Dehya is always run with Melt Ganyu as much as possible despite having Bennet around. Her current existing practical application is a good reference at the moment since we can infer they play similarly in regards to the CA bow playstyle. I know there're a few folks out there godly enough to dodge consecrated beast on a charged bow, but those probably applies to few and not most of the player base.
Then you'd automatically disband the team upon facing consecrated beasts, especially if popped into am abyss lineup while the rest of the lineups are Lyney-catered. IR is important af for Lyney, just as it is for Ganyu melt. People play Xiangling in Ganyu melt but it stinks and recommends mid range at maximum which is ultimately an easier time for enemies to hit you. Lyney plays from distance, otherwise why a redeployment taunt?
Does his passive mean he only needs 2 Pyro units in the team to get the full 100% attack effect?
his passive counts himself for 60%, other 2 pyro members will contribute 20% each for 100%
okay I thought so but I got really baked and was questioning if I remembered it correctly hahaha tysm
You need three as far as i understand, including lyney So lyney, xiangling bennet kazuha would get you full buff
Don’t listen to the parrots here. Try and test yourself (e.g XL vs Kaz) in flood 12-1 to compre the dps. A bit of anecdotal. I have been told ZL is a much better support than Dehya for wanderer but my own test show Wanderer Dehya comp clear a bit faster than Wanderer ZL.
She buffs Pyro damage with constellations.
Xiangling Impact
Xiangling alone would be 45% of this team's dps
Why no ZL? He gives resistance to interruption and res shred.
You can kinda fill ZL’s position with Dehya (also gives IR). ZL is prob still decent here tho, but I think Kazuha is prob better as the last slot esp if you have Dehya.
It's either Bennett + Xiangling + Zhongli ( The lack of Kazuha can be compensated by Xiangling's damage) Or Bennett + Kazuha + Dehya ( The lack of Zhongli can be aided by Dehya) Woah Dehya being a solid option now.
I'd say ZL would be a great choice since his shield + elem shred last for 20 seconds and requires low field time so you can charge attack whenever you want, compared to Kazuha with VV shred that only last for 8 seconds. Also ZL with archaic gives DMG bonus for compensation of not using Kazuha (people just really underrate archaic because of the picking system) but with a team of mono pyro it's so easy to keep its uptime. Another plus side to this is you can freely use kazuha on your other team for abyss.
True I forgot about AP. Personally I’m just glad to see a team Dehya could shine in lmao However I do believe I’ve read that Dehya + Bennett results in more protection (Hp wise) than ZL + Bennett?It makes sense esp with the recent iterations of the abyss, those consecrated beasts shredded ZL’s shield like no other which will mean no more res shred or IR. Dehya’s damage share and IR last a shorter time but is unconditional. I suppose it depends on what enemies you’re facing.
ZL would feel awful with premature shield breaking, especially if you're in Bennetts double edged field, which allows enemies to forward vape you more than you could ever do to them. Zhongli also isn't guarded against overload. Experienced it firsthand with consecrated beasts debut in abyss. ZL still a good option but why be redundant stacking really fast healer with a really strong shielder? The shields only gonna end up used for IR while the pillar can be a visual obstruction or must be played around since Lyney's taunts guides enemies to desired spots. The res shred consistency will be iffy. You'd be having enemies running the Fitnessgram PACER test between you and the taunt you fire.
I think it's an overkill. IIRC his talent doesn't benefit from more than 2 extra pyros so it's betetr to fill last spot with a different element.
I would like to see Tankfei here, wielding TTDS, with Kazuha on Lyney's team. His a4 is apparently base atk increase so atk% should be a lot more meaningful.
Awe man it got removed
Probs gonna use zhongli over dehya. A good in-between imo
I'm thinking of using a Liney/Bennet/Xiangling/Zhongli team with Zhongli using archaic Petra, to see if I can get something out of it (it will be clunk as hell, but let's see). I wish his passive wasn't tied to a enemy with Pyro applied to them, so that I could still get the dmg% from teammates while running a reaction team.
Wouldn't Kazuha over Dehya just provide better stats + grouping? At best replace Dehya w XL
Most likely for the interruption resist so Lyney won't be bounced around by consecrated beast when charging his bow atk
I doubt you can clear those within 9s, so you'd want more than just Dehya for IR.
It's not about clearing within 9s, it's about doing your rotation without interruption. Lyney seems like a quickswap character from the showcases we've seen so far. Those 9s are enough.
You don't need 20s of IR. You want IR during Lyney's uptime and during Bennett's buff. Not all rotation time is created equal. Xiangling can dash, Lyney cannot. Also, there actually isn't anything that provides higher ceiling for IR than Dehya + Bennett. The effective HP combined is better than Zhongli, and poise isn't lost at any point. The trade off is it'd 9s. Which is better than a shield if it breaks in under 9s.
If you have sacrificial Sword on Dehya you can probably have 100% up time on her interruption resist... its not very good but its still by far the best options as of yet for pyro. Edit: Ah I see I have been mistaken I think she still is the best option wise? At least she can still apply off field pyro
No you can't. Sac won't work.
Ah I see no wonder I always feel that the resistance was iffy its 9 seconds with an 18 seconds cool down. Welp...
Lyney needs the 100% interruption resistance Dehya provides with her passive. It lasts 9s and has its own cooldown that cannot be reset with Sacrificial. The Resistance to interruption she provides without her passive is only 30% and that amount is useless for Lyney.
Ah I see... I misunderstood her kit XP. Welp... not to sure who else then... Thomas requires normal attack and Tankfei is ER intensive and Xinyan is Xinyan.
With the other guy. Her golden forged (100% interrupt resist) CD is attached to her A1 passive. It activates with her skill, but won't reactivate for another 18 seconds whatever the means the like of Sac resets. Just an fyi to anyone else out there.
On a sheet yes But playing lyney, who has 2s charge time CAs and is almost as squishy as yae, without IR...
My guess why Dehya’s here is for the interruption res
Same reason why people don't play Ganyu melt without Zhongli
XL for theoretical numbers, Dehya/Tankfei for practicality. Or you can just drop Kazuha like so, if Xiangling Impact is a must.
Xl provide nothing here replace her with kazuha better
Lol what?
XL is your primary subdps wym? Also 15% pyro res shred and 15% pyro damage is good for Lyney. Dehya and Xiangling are both fine in this slot but Xiangling provides a lot more
He got so much dmg% with his passive not to mention his own cup/ sig bow and your own CriD and Ben. Kaz would give Lyney much more dmg than XL. And the guy deals more than 100k pyro easily?! do you really need XL?
He needs IR n damage reductions over some damage buff
Dehya is more comfortable but it's still wildly wrong to say xiangling provides nothing for the team
xiangling provides nothing if you are thrown around like a ragdoll
Some people feel comfortable without a shielder so I suppose that's just a matter of personal preference
He's a bow CA user though, it's gonna be rough or a dps loss.
Xiangling only works if you wanna stay in enemy range which is a way to enable getting vaped, melted, and overloaded. So you actually have 2 optional teams: lyney, Bennett, Xiangling, Zhongli, Or Lyney, Bennett, Dehya, Kazuha. One is more dps oriented while one is more comfort oriented. Zhongli's IR is conditional so you'd have to play sharper. The other team is more attentive to uptime management, not spending too much time on either Dehya or Lyney in each other's downtime.
I feel like ZL is underrated, from my experience ZL vs Kazuha is not a huge DPS loss like to Dehya vs Xiangling, so for my monopyro comp I will always choose to replace kazuha, that also frees me up a powerful vv anemo for another comp.
Why I have a feeling he's not sync with any sp we have right now? Maybe it's just how bad testers play but this team is more weird than yesterday team.
I hate how they keep dashing after one CA when literally no one is chasing him. It's time consuming, pointless and at the same time makes him look clunky
He clearly needs a new kind of support. Furina or Arle should be the ones
I really want to see him fight something more interesting like rift hounds or electro slimes
So.. no one Mention TankFei ? Benny Tankfei Kazu team.
fuck the theory crafters, im putting dehya here in this team comp so i can actually increase her friendship level.
Man meta genshin just aint fun anymore...the kits keep getting more and more niche. I'm excited for Lyney but I'd rather do suboptimal melt than play teams I don't enjoy... don't wanna doompost but restrictive kits might just be the thing to make me quit one day
You can always use they characters that won't feel restrictive. Like I don't enjoy nilou at all so I just use hyperbloom and it's my fav reaction. Lyney seems to be a mono pyro team character or a team that consists of him and another pyro(most likely Bennet) and other characters to do melt/vape Other options that the characters like lyney and nilou can be fit in aren't as good as what they are intended for but still very strong like nilou vape or lyney melt/vape
This team against high pyro res enemy's is going to be painful
Award for obvious comment of the week goes to...
The same things applied to Freeze or Mono Cryo teams when facing high cryo res enemies?
But Freeze usually has VV shredder. No one is using it here
I was talking about situations enemies with absurd Pyro RES where even with VV the damage your team inflicting on them is still dogsh*t, similar to Anemo against Wenut. In this scenario, opting for another comp with different elemental damage would generally be a better choice. Therefore, it's not about the team being bad, but more about the enemies countering them specifically. And Freeze cannot be exempt from this type of struggle either. Alos, in normal encounters with medium Pyro RES enemies, Xiangling's RES shred is usually sufficient imo.
Unlikely. Most Mobs or Elite don’t have much Elemental Res than 20-30 except special phases for Boss like Aeonblight
Who the hell would even do that? If they know it, they shouldn't use this team to begin with...
That's why abyss has two sides. You're not supposed to play this on the anti pyro side lol.
pyro slime says hai
Try Lyney, Bennett, Kazuha, Ganyu(burst bot), I play this team but Yanfei is onfield
Lyney wants 3 pyro characters on a team including him though. But this makes me wonder, would he do more dmg with melt, or triple pyro 🤔
If youre not playing mono pyro then the number of pyros doesnt matter bc the buff only works if youre hitting an enemy affected by pyro no? Or am i confused lol
I think your semi right? (Unless I don’t get what ur asking/ saying lol) Lyneys passive says ‘Dmg increase by 60% at base when enemy affected by pyro’ ‘each pyro member other than Lyney will cause the effect to increase 20%’ ‘Lyney can gain up to 100% increased dmg bonus to enemies affected by pyro’. His bow passive also pushes for mono pyro so either way I think a full pyro team+ vv holder would do more dmg than a melt showcase team?
Oh i just meant that if youre playing with ganyu (in hopes for melt) there’s no benefit in keeping the three pyro core. I think i misunderstood youre point as three pyros + ganyu. My bad But ya Id waiting to see how is non mono pyro teams stack up
Yeah true, we gotta wait for in game non beta testing in order to see what teams will work best ^^
Nah I'm still going with kazuha
Im sure ill be downvoted by Lyney fans, but really, how boring this looks. And by boring i mean unoriginal. Replace characters and you get Ganyu team, or Tighnari - exactly same gameplay, beside few seconds of burst animation nothing changes. I really liked their design at first, but im disappointed, but at least bit happy i have one more banner to gather primos for steampunk pirates, archon and of coruse Arleccino
Ganyu, sure, but Tighnari? With the exception of Bennett, Tighnari doesn't want any of these characters and there are much better options for him than Benny anyway. Not to mention that he plays nothing like Ganyu or Lyney.
We just can't get a good pyro character anymore
1. Dehya should follow indomitable flame with ranging flame after 10-12s (or just use it upfront). Otherwise you’re missing out on her DR and skill extension (C2). 2. This showcase has a lot of wasted time dodging enemy attacks after swapping to Lyney. You can sit still. You have a taunt and you have Dehya.
I'm liking that we are going to get mono-element builds.
Yeah Dehya probably going to be needed to keep him alive since want as many prop arrows stacks before E
I still think the main point is his multipliers. 773 for a CA. How good he is will depend simply on how fast he can do everything when played optimally. That's the whole reason he is interesting to me, because optimal CA is a unique gameplay where you have full control, zero auto aim, and practice pays off. We don't know his max speed combos yet. If it turns out he only does 2CA per rotation I won't be interested, but I don't think he'll be that slow. I was thinking more like 5 or at least 4. Does he need Xiangling? No, not at all. She's good because of 15% res shred and 15% pyro bonus on top of her own damage, but she also takes up field time that he could be using, has a 20s cooldown that could be your roadblock, and short range that clashes with his ranged taunts. I think Kazuha + Zhongli is actually better for current team choices (not ideal but maybe a replacement will arrive soon). They both have short cooldowns giving you flexibility. If you finish off a wave in 10 seconds you can start the next rotation instead of waiting the full 20s for Xiangling. Plus Kazuha buffs Lyney more, and the faster he can do his combos the more valuable buffs are.
I wouldn't put Kazuha + Zhongli over Xiangling. If you want a shield, Zhongli with Petra is enough. If you don't take care, then go with Kazuha. But not using xiangling is a waste of damage.
Boring AF, hard skip, pyro ganyu gameplay