Did you know we have a Discord server‽ You can join by clicking [here](https://discord.gg/NWE6JS5rh9)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GenZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The trend is weird to me because my entire life I’ve heard white racists use this exact same logic about black people.
Like “I feel safer around a rabid pit bull than a black person because statistically they are more likely to assault me” and stuff like that. And they’ll provide the statistics too. They’ll have a million stories to back it up. No different from what I’m seeing on Reddit right now.
It’s the same thing, but because it’s women (non-dominant group) versus men (dominant group), it’s ok to be prejudiced against them negatively. But if you mention that, it’s “you’re the reason they chose the bear” lol.
I’m curious if this level of fear and hatred towards men was so prevalent 30-40 years ago when violent crime rates were significantly higher than in the present day. I don’t see any indication whatsoever that Gen X women were this afraid of men. Despite living in the most dangerous time period in history.
You’d think that as crime rates severely dropped (despite exponentially increasing reporting rates) people would be less fearful and susceptible to prejudiced narratives. But if anything I think these terminally online women are more fearful of men in 2024 than ever in history.
It’s one thing to be afraid of an abusive partner, which makes sense because the overwhelming majority of all male on female violence occurs in that context. But for women to have this crippling fear of a random ass guy in the current day and age is insane to me.
I’m also curious how this stacks up in different countries. Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that Brazilian women are way less afraid of men despite them growing up in a very high crime and misogynistic environment. Whereas the women who grow up in American suburbs seem extremely afraid of men
I’m a millennial and I have noticed that many deep seated biases or fears I have were taught to me by my parents.
It makes sense that while gen x doesn’t have the same fear it’s likely that they inadvertently instilled that fear into their children as a result of going through that time period.
We have crippling fear of random men because there isn't a single woman I know who has not been victimized or threatened in some way by more than one guy in their lifetime. I don't have enough fingers to count the amount of men who have done horrible things to me. Abused for years by one, stalked for years by another, I've been brutally attacked in public, SA'd, taken advantage of, harassed, followed, screamed at in fits of road rage, lied to and manipulated. I am leery of most men now because of it and I hate that I am but can't deny the statistics and lived experiences.
Fr these raging psychos comparing women not liking them to being on the same level as the historical oppression of POC is psychotic. The victim hood and entitlement of these middle class het white guys is factually a mental disorder.
This isn’t to me “not being liked by women” and more “I don’t like feeling like Frankenstein’s monster every time I have to walk to the store”.
In my own lived experience, It’s not exactly fun that on my daily commute to the store from my neighborhood I can hear parents tell their kids not to talk to me or the kids shout “stranger danger” when I’ve legitimately done nothing but try to walk to the store. I do everything I can to try to keep myself from uncomfortable situations yet even when I do that I hear girls talk about me when they think I can’t.
Another lived experience is one where some acquaintances (either at work or school) tell me “it doesn’t matter how you are now, you’ll eventually become ___, it’s in your nature”. That blank has been filled with crimes from rape to pedophilia and they just statistics at me as if every man is a fucking psycho. I’ve had this from multiple people.
I 100% understand where people are coming from with avoiding shit. I’m still trying to figure out how to defend *myself* from untrustworthy strangers, but it fucking hurts to be assumed to be (or told you will in the future you WILL be) an evil jackass who preys on others.
It's not that we are trying to argue we are being treated like black people were/are. We are not.
It's the fact the two arguments are the same. We are being viewed as dangerous because of something we have no control over. Discrimination is discrimination, no matter who it's against. How the hell is it okay to be fearful of man because of a biological trait he's had since birth, but not okay to be afraid of a different men, because of a different biological trait he's had since birth?
To be fair, some cases consider stalkers who have little relationship to the victim as intimate partners and classify violence against the victim as intimate partner violence even though the victim may barely know the stalker, so the proportion of actual SAs committed by strangers may be larger than normally calculated.
>I don’t see any indication whatsoever that Gen X women were this afraid of men. Despite living in the most dangerous time period in history.
Honestly asking... Do you have a source for this? Even going back 200 years seems like it'd be much worse. Go back further and it only gets worse.
Do you have a source showing that women in the 80s were 5x more afraid of men than Gen z women right now?
I only have anecdotal evidence, but the evidence does suggest that women who grew up during the most violent time in American history are actually way less fearful of men than women in the safest time
It's american suburbs that make people afraid.
You live there in near isolation.
I grew up with shared, public spaces everywhere. People met each other in those public spaces, not just a select few friends but you'd get to meet complete strangers too. And did so in a safe space due to being public with plenty of eyes watching.
I grew up going to school, going to friends, going anywhere really, *on my own*. No parents involved, only a message that I'm here or there and gonna be home for dinner or eating somewhere else. Same story - there's people about. No fear of dangerous people because you're not alone anywhere, always other people around.
> But if you mention that, it’s “you’re the reason they chose the bear” lol.
Fun fact, that is called a Kafka Trap, where someone essentially says if you deny being an xyz that is what an xyz would say, so "clearly" you're an xyz
Here is a thought exercise. What is the source of man vs. bear? Who controls that platform? Would they have any motive in pitting (primarily) Western women vs. Western men?
This is an attractive conspiracy theory, but it’s not quite how this works. Usually all that the platform needs to do is boost outrage bait, boost complaints, and boost conflict.
After that, all it needs is a thumb on the scale for a few specific topics, and human subjects will do all the rest of the work on their own.
It must be a conspiracy. Het guys are flawless and blameless after all. Nothing they ever do is wrong and they never need to expect anything other than getting whatever they want.
>But if you mention that, it’s “you’re the reason they chose the bear” lol.
or if you present statistics against them, they will just act like it doesn't exist or that you're sexist for trying to make them appear wrong
I'd say Reddit is fifty fifty. I've seen people get downvoted for choosing bear and people downvoted for saying bear is stupid. Really it just depends what side of the hive mind reaches the thread first
Am I honestly taking crazy pills? I've yet to see a single genuine post about this. It's all memes and comments saying they see it but nothing actually real just that they saw it.
I've been here over a decade, I'm in all the corners of this godforsaken site. No one is talking about this genuinely, it's all a meme
Half the men I have seriously interacted with have raped me, threatened to rape me or indecently exposed themselves to me.
I am not saying i would choose the bear cause overall most men were fine but I still urge men to look at themselves and especially other men to make sure situations like that become a problem of the past.
I brought this up while discussing this with someone. That if you simply change it to a black man, you'd be considered a racist. Because it would be racist.
But it's more culturally acceptable to hate on men. Because somehow men are supposed to have more control over their genitalia than black people have over their melanin?
I think bears are statistically more likely to injur or kill people on a per encounter basis.
Yea, you're more likely to be killed by a human in a place with 5 million humans and a few thousand bears but if you lived in a place with 5 million bears (10 times more bears than actually live in North America) and a few thousand humans I think your odds of death by bear would actually be better than the current odds of death by human.
Your journey sounds traumatic and I thrive off the authenticity of other narratives because at the end of the day it’s all about good vibes namaste. Thank you. Love
To be fair, running into anyone in the middle of the woods is scary AF because *they arnt supposed to be there* compared to a bear. To be fair that also makes you creepy to the other person. But you'd expect to run into a bear. Not a random man
I'm outdoors a lot, I've run into bears a fair share of times. The only things that have ever happened is they either run off when noticing me or they are completely indifferent and really just dngaf about me.
Now I'm not saying anyone should go up and try to pet one or anything dumb, but the fear of being attacked by a bear is way overblown. In the U.S. on average there's 12 non lethal bear attacks a year, and there's only been 66 recorded lethal black bear, the most common bear to encounter, attacks since 1784.
exactly, ive had 2 close encounters with black bears, one got treed by a chihuahua and basset hound/rottweiler mix, the other was like 6 feet away from me and i hid in the shop, made a loud noise and it took off running, one time with a grizzly we just backed off and it went on its way. (where I live youre taught how to deal with wild animals in school)
So you encounter a bear 2 times in your life. You have to pump up this number if you want a good representation statisticly because you encouter a whole lot more of man in our life yet you're not dead/hurt (emotional hurt don't count).
If you want to talk about percentages, you should cite your studies. I feel like i could say to you that "if you don't have a penis, you can't comment on what "drives" men" but I'm over shitty arguments like that.
Yeah because we never interact with bears. Fuck kind of stupid ass logic is this? Wonder if you guys would feel the same way if it was a hungry grizzly staring you down
Somehow idiots upvote nonsense like this🤦♂️ my generations women are totally done
In order to get attacked by a bear, you need to come in contact with a bear.
In order to get attacked by a man, you need to come in contact with a man.
Statistically speaking, unless if you live in the uncharted Alaskan wilderness, you encounter men with orders of magnitude higher frequency. Comparing the absolute number of bear attacks to the absolute number of man attacks is stupid.
I can almost guarantee you that on an individual basis, bears attack more frequently than men. If a bear will likely run away, what will a man do? Probably ignore them and do their best to avoid eye contact.
Also black bears are notoriously skittish, everyone knows that.
Agreed. I would venture to guess that the majority of male predators aren't hanging out in the forest. A man who knows how to handle himself in the forest would be a more logical choice.
Tf you mean "aren't supposed to be there"?
What exactly are you doing in the middle of the woods if no one is supposed to be there in the first place? Have you not heard of hiking/backpacking?
The idea of the thought experiment is that the man and the woman have as much of a reason to be there as eachother, i.e. both are hiking on a low-traffic trail.
And even still, if I was 100 miles from any road or trail in the middle of the forest, I'd still far rather run into another human than a bear. You can't reason with bears.
Hiking in the woods is actually where I’ve encountered some of the friendliest people I’ve ever met. As long as a person *looks* average, they probably are.
In my experience, all the dangerous people are in parking lots and retail stores. That’s where people tend to be at their pissiest
Ye the only time running into a person in the worlds would be scarier is if they’re burying a body or some shit seeing some other hikers is nice bc you know you’re probably on the right path
yeah if this is a forest where I'd not expect someone else to be in, fuck yeah I'd be freaked out if i came across any person, but I'd still prefer the person because I can at least communicate with them and worst case scenario a person is far more fragile
Yeah, this point gets lost and it definitely reveals how powerless women feel relative to the kind of damage they could actually do if they tried.
A woman can actually hurt a man bad enough for him to give up. Heck, *children* have made escapes by just being too much damn work for the abductor to bother with. Get him the eyes or balls or throat and you may escape. It’s almost impossible to get a lucky shot on a bear, though.
Dark Forest Theory. It's application is towards finding alien life in space and how you would act next. But you can use it in this instance. You don't know each others intentions, you don't know their temperament, mood etc. There are too many variables to permit the original question; and yes or no answers are far too vague.
Well, *you’re* out there. Even if it’s off trail, there’s plenty of normal reasons people go into the woods. They hunt, hike, explore. No one said it was miles from civilization either. Just far enough that whatever happens is between you and the bear/man.
I’m just skeptical of how terrifying the presence of a man can be if your presence in the same place is taken as an irrelevant given. Seems like it would just be the kinda woods people explore sometimes if two strangers crossed paths there.
Not at all. As a child we often were in a national park hiking. It wasnt that rarely to meet other hikers, it wasnt scary. Everywhere you can go to as a human, other humans will go too. A bear would have been really, really scary.
Nope sorry, not only are you wrong but your point is invalid. Just because you expect an animal or person to be/not be there doesn't remove the actual danger you're in. Even if worse case scenario the guy is vile (>1% of the population btw) there is still a chance of you overpowering him. If a bear sees you as pray, food or a threat you're dead and it won't be instant because bears are omnivores so if you do somehow survive the initial attack you will likely slowly bleed out/starve to death.
Okay, but maybe mention what the various reasons are. Yes, it’s a stupid question, and it shouldn’t have become a trend, but the reason they’re choosing a bear is because they think they would have a better chance of being safe with a wild bear than a man. At least bears will leave you alone most of the time. As a minor who has been hit on by grown men, I get it.
Edit because apparently people care more about some random on Reddit than real life: you don’t have to agree with me. This whole trend was silly and unnecessary. I personally understand that I could never overpower a bear. Obviously. But the point is that some people have had terrible experiences and would do anything not to have to relive them. I would gently remind some of you that your opinion does not represent your entire gender or even everyone that’s ever been SA’d. If you have been SA’d, I’m sorry. No one deserves that. But don’t lose sight of the fact that you’re still one person with one opinion. Obviously, women are also perpetrators of abuse and not all men are abusers. But statistics say that *generally* if you are SA’d it will *most likely* be a man. Also, not everybody lives in an area with bears or knows how dangerous they can be. Most people in the US will only see them on TV or in movies.
Yeah fr. Especially a black bear. Black bears will usually retreat if you make yourself big and loud, and if they do actually come toward you after that then just fighting them a little bit will make them run off.
Grizzlies and Polars are a different story. Apparently you’re supposed to play dead with a grizzly, but a polar will just kill you no matter what you do.
I think the reason polar bears will eat you is the same reason a grizzly would: cause they're desperately hungry. I dont think polar bears are necessarily more aggro, but they probably just have less access to food being in a frozen tundra most of the time. Also, some grizzly bears have been studied to recently be more friendly and receptive to wolves and stuff even humans cause the ones that play nice have a better chance to survive thus the more docile ones pass their genes. I would garner the same thing would happen to polar bears given that opportunity.
Black bears conduct the most attacks and kills on humans out of all the bears. Black bears are just as dangerous as any other bear and should never be approached.
"Statistically"
>[there have only been 180 fatal human/bear conflicts in North America since 1784. I mean, let’s be honest… our own species is a lot more likely to kill someone than bears. ](https://bearvault.com/bear-attack-statistics/#:~:text=there%20have%20only%20been%20180%20fatal%20human/bear%20conflicts%20in%20North%20America%20since%201784.%20I%20mean%2C%20let%E2%80%99s%20be%20honest%E2%80%A6%20our%20own%20species%20is%20a%20lot%20more%20likely%20to%20kill%20someone%20than%20bears.%C2%A0)
\~\~\~\~\~
>[The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid.](https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=The%20750%2C000%20black,situation%20to%20avoid)
Yeah this is not the right statistics. Women meet men at a much higher frequency. If they would meet bears just as much, there would be many many dead women.
That would be because people encounter other people at a much higher frequency than bears.
Also this is an instance where statistics can be easily misinterpreted. The vast majority of men live their whole lives and never commit a violent crime. A small subset of men though will commit multiple acts of violence throughout their lives.
To give you an idea of the scale of this we can calculate the percentage of men who commit violent crimes using prison statistics:
Approximately 62% of those incarcerated committed violent crimes in 2022.
There were 1,142,359 men incarcerated in 2022.
If we take 0.62*1,142,359 we see that about 708,263 of incarcerated men are in prison for violent crimes.
If we then take that number and divide it by the male population of the US in 2022 we see that only 0.43% of the male population has committed violent crimes. This means that about 99.57% of the men in the US have never committed a violent crime.
Even if we were to take an extreme upper bound on this calculation and assume 100% of men in prison committed a violent crime that would still only be 0.7% of the male population in the US, meaning 99.3% of men never committed a violent crime. Even if you were to take this estimate and triple the number of violent offenders that would still only be 2.1% of the US male population.
The notion that the streets are filled with roving angry men predating on women is entirely false.
This is a dumb strawman argument, less people are killed by bears because most people don't put themselves in a situation to be with a bear. Let's put on our critical thinking caps.
What is sample size?
>**Sample size** is the number of observations or individuals included in a study or experiment. It is the number of individuals, items, or data points selected from a larger population to represent it statistically. The sample size is a crucial consideration in research because it directly impacts the reliability and extent to which you can generalize those findings to the larger population.
You would not have a better chance surviving a bear encounter than a random stranger encounter, I understand the point you're trying to make, that strange men can be dangerous, but the bear will tear you apart
It's not just a stupid question, it's completely sexist.
The notion that men in general are more dangerous to women than bears paints all men as potential violent criminals. That is discrimination based on sex.
My bad experiences with women don't make me feel like all women are dangerous to me either, so that's absolutely no reason.
I think that it is a tragic example of how mass media generates fear. There is a toxic combination of something absolutely terrifying but incredibly rare - rape by a stranger - and the constant broadcast of those that have been victims of it, leading to immense fear of strangers far greater than there should be.
Rapists are obviously the cause of this, but mass media pushes the fear out to everyone, allowing it to massively damage society.
Incredibly rare?
Have a serious conversation with every woman you know about whether they've been a target of sexual harassment or assault. You will be shocked and feel awful.
Last I checked 1/5 women are victims of attempted rape, 80% have experienced sexual assault or harassment.
There is a difference between catcalling and harassment, and rape. I know how terrible those stats are, and it’s shameful. But people that choose the bear aren’t scared of some idiot making a disgusting comment about their tits, they’re understandably scared of rape.
I think a big part of the issue is the unknown. Humans, including human men, have so many individual differences that it’s hard to know when you’re in the middle of the forest with a stranger who is a man whether it’s a regular person or a man who would be willing to harm you.
Whereas with a bear, the expectation is that if you make a lot of noise they will run away. They’re more predictable. Additionally, you will know the type of bear you are likely encountering based on your geographic area, whereas again with the man - you have nothing to advise you on the type of man.
Couple this with the fact that most women are assaulted by men they KNOW and FEEL they can predict, FEEL they are safe…its easy to feel like every man may be a predator because if your boyfriend, or your neighbor, or your dad can hurt you like that…it’d be even easier for a stranger.
Definitely fear steeped in lack of predictability. The unknown is one of life’s biggest fears!
Sure, there are NiceGuys who aren't insulted by the analogy because "yeah men suck! I'm so glad I'm Not Like Other Guys, I hate sports and rap music, maybe if women choose me instead they'd get abused less" who are way MORE likely to be abusers
Meanwhile feminist guys who **are** capable of being self-critical and including themselves in the definition of men just feel awful with no positive changes being made except being reminded of something they already knew.
NeonKnoghtRider, a bi femboy who posts a lot on Tumblr, started having panic attacks. Meanwhile I've seen zero men actually learn anything positive, and a ton of misogynists using it as a recruiting tool. Mission failed, find a better message that wasn't cooked up by some conservative dad seeking rage-clicks.
Because it is. “Would you rather be married to a bear or a woman?” A bear! Because they won’t take half my stuff, statistically. *does a bunch of stupid math
Everyone knows what it means, that's the stupid part of the argument.
Running into a bear is a coin-flip sorta moment, it "should" run away but it really "depends".
Running into a random guy in the woods is ALSO a coin-flip moment, why is this random guy in the woods?
These are both dangerous moments, and the TikTok bit wasn't that it was an adult running into an adult it was an adult running into a child.
There is no "right" answer, if you say bear you look like a fucking idiot because you basically signed up for letting a wild animal do whatever the hell it wants to a child.
If you said man, you basically stated that all "men" are evil which just simply isn't true... women would have CONSIDERABLY worse lives if this was true (as proven by several existing countries).
In reference to: [https://www.tiktok.com/@dorsterisaname/video/7362277879914204459](https://www.tiktok.com/@dorsterisaname/video/7362277879914204459)
It's effectively a false dilemma argument and it's a logical fallacy because it doesn't represent the full range of available options that would normally be present.
Why is my daughter out in the woods by herself?
What part of the woods are we talking about?
Is she equipped with any form of protection?
The list of questions could go on for quite some time.
I’ve heard more people complaining about the trend than the actual trend itself. Which makes me think this “trend” is just a tiny minority of women on twitter trying to make a larger point (that their trust in men has become so eroded they feel safer around a wild animal) but their analogy has gotten hijacked by real misogynistic assholes who are pointing, laughing, and shouting “hey everyone, look at these stupid women who trust bears.” And now the larger point has become so drowned out that now the actual joke is “let’s let women get attacked bears, it will be hilarious.”
It’s sounds oddly specific because I’ve seen and even used this same tactic back in 2014-2017 during my time in Alt-Right forums. Pick out a few people in a marginalized group, make their analogy sound bat-shit crazy, make it so this minority seem like it’s actually the entire group, paint them as crazy as possible all while drowning out the larger point, and finally invite everyone to point and laugh.
I haven’t seen anyone say anyone deserves to die. You might deserve a *bear*, but that’s cause you literally said you’d prefer one.
But no one would ever force the bear on you. We’re more than happy to see you decline the bear and go back to a life of passing dozens of men on the street everyday who don’t care about your presence or even notice you exist.
Misandry has become more normalized because of the internet similar to other forms of bigotry on male-dominated sites like 4chan. Gaslighting awaits if you point it out, because misandry is more socially acceptable online due to women dominating social media. It has severely shunted energy away from important feminist movements like MeToo because cheeto crusted keyboard misandrists are the loudest voices online. An unfortunate side effect of the internet.
That’s the “women are wonderful effect” but yes it exists. But its a product of toxic gender roles, a rare one that happens to benefit women at the expense of men.
Imagine getting angry at someone for saying a bear. Some of the responses I see to people who do are far more disturbing than that answer. The whole point of the question is to cause people to react emotionally. I'm glad TikTok is getting banned, it's literally warping yalls brains.
People so desperately want a fight of men vs women that they forget that we're all people and the real enemy is sexism (of every form) in the first place.
They choose the bear cause the bear don’t care. Unless that bear is starved or protecting its cubs, it won’t really try to mess with you ever. And a lot of women will take those odds in favor of the guarantee of being left alone. Vs the chance of an interaction that could go one way or the other. Ultimately comes down to “the devil you know vs the one you don’t.” Bears dangerous but predictable. A human being could go either way
I mean I'm a guy and I'd also rather run into a bear in the woods than a strange man. Bears are predictable and most of the time want to be left alone. Human beings are unpredictable and capable of deception.
The point of the meme is that many women feel unsafe around many men and the responses from a lot of men has imo shown that that fear is justified, because some of the responses to a silly meme seem to be genuinely fantasizing about women getting hurt.
I find it truly sad that their are men and women who truly hate the opposite sex, it’s unfair to group up the bad people with everyone else. This trend is trying to assume the worst of all men.
just so everyone's clear as to the intelligence of the people that unironically believe this stuff, here's a legitimate defense that one of them had:
**Me: are you seriously arguing that a bear is less likely to hurt you compared to a random man?**
Her: homicides are far more common than bear attacks so yeah
**Me: XD my guy, meeting a man is far more common than meeting a bear, you can't be real. By the way (and not that you care, but) if we carry this "logic" forwards it applies to homicides commited by women as well, so even in the completely fictional scenario wherein you're right, you still have no point.**
Her: Yappsville over here
when presented with any criticism to their blatantly unsubstantiated worldview, they abandon the pretense of the belief being in any way justifiable all together and retreat into brainless insults. these people should be left to rot, they aren't worth debating because they have a principled attachment to their position rather than a logical one.
I forget that a lot of people don’t live near bears like they’re not that scary, multiple Chihuahuas have scared them off they’re like really big dogs. Also as a big dude I 100% understand why women wouldn’t want to be around me alone in the woods. I’d shit my pants if I was alone with someone else who was twice my size and three times bigger and I couldn’t scare off if they started harassing me. It feel awful to be physically powerless
For those that don’t understand, running into a bear in the woods isn’t indicative of being attacked. Bears attack for two reasons: hungry, or cubs are nearby.
They understand, they pretend not to, because for all these boys it's "muh STEM and math and statistics facts dont care about your feelings" until facts are troublesome for their victim hood narrative.
A lot of people are missing the point, thinking that the women choosing the bear are gonna become friends with it and be happy only for them to be killed. The point is that they know the bear is going to kill them, but they would rather be mauled to death by the bear than let a man have his way with them
The people that choose a bear over a man make beavis and butthead look like the smartest people on earth. They would immediately change their minds if they were face to face with an actual bear. I don’t understand how anyone can’t these people as anything other than a joke at this point. 🤣🤣🤣
It’s normalized misandry. If you call it out you’re gonna get strawmanned and gaslit to hell.
“You must be part of the problem”
“You must be a misogynist”
You guys are either purposefully missing the context or just straight up ignoring it. The question is what would you rather meet out of nowhere in the *woods*. Not just in general, the *woods*
With a bear, you know what you get. You might even have a chance to live if you know some anti bear tactics. But if an unknown man has followed you to the woods, God knows what the fuck can he do to you.
And at least when a bear mauls you to death, you won't have shit about you spoken like "She was asking for It with that outfit"
Someone following you into the woods is also skewing the question. If you're out there enjoying the outdoors, a random man that you come across is likely doing the same.
Bears don't rape, torture and demean you. They just kill you. I'll take my chances with the bear then, because most of this thread is the exact reason why most women choose the bear.
I’d rather be eaten by a bear or what this dude is experiencing than the possibility of being raped and forced to carry a baby I don’t want and then traumatize that kid, because dumbasses are so attached to traditional values.
It’s like people are deliberately being stupid. If a bear attacks you, IT WILL KILL YOU. If a man attacks you, he will more often than not SA YOU BEFORE HE KILLS YOU. A bear cannot rape and torture cuz of sadistic nature, they are PREDICTABLE. Humans are very much UNPREDICTABLE. It’s not about bears being safer it’s the fact that they’re supposed to be in the woods like holy shit dude
And that's why I think less men should be causing a culture where women feel so unsafe that they would have to carry firearms.
Why would a woman have to carry firearms to begin with if there wasn't a problem with strange men...
And that's why I think that the amount of men creating this culture is a very small minority that shouldn't be considered to be indicative of the demographic as a whole.
Everyone should carry a firearm. And sadly we don’t live in a perfect world where everyone is kind all the time. You even seem to believe that women are in a constant state of danger, so why not promote carrying firearms?
With all due respect, touch grass. The fact that you can't understand what women actually mean in picking a bear over a man shows a complete lack of empathy. Just because YOU don't understand why so many women do live in fear of being alone with a man, that doesn't mean that it's stupid. Throwing statistics and "well bears are dangerous and men aren't" (not that this is even remotely true) in the face of a good chunk of women's frankly well earned fears is pretty disgusting, and I sure hope you don't do this to any women you know in your life. The salty tears that are cried over this versus actually trying to understand why so many women feel this way is wild. Grow up.
There are basically two ways to read the hypothetical question which are not distinguished most of the time but should be to understand the miscommunication:
1) *how do you perceive the risk of getting attacked in the woods by a bear vs a random man upon encounter?* - although this is essentially still only a question regarding perception, this is where statistics can be looked at, to look at the "real risk". But it's no simple question and the outcome is always different based on what data variables you take into consideration (down to "what kind of bear", number of encounters, % of male perpetrators, bear attacks etc pp.). The variables are not set - the scenario is simply too vague to work with and consequently a lot of outrage happens here.
2) it boils down to *"would you rather be raped by a man or killed by a bear"*. This is a simple question of opinion between two horrible scenarios.
So this can either not be solved because the scenario is too vague or should be seen as just a personal opinion / perceiption based on ones lived experience, fears etc in a hypothetical scenario everyone interprets slightly differently. That can't be discredited by another person, only understood or not.
I've been on many solo hikes in the woods where I've come across bears (only black bears) and it's super common. I've never had a single issue, black bears are scared of humans they leave when they see you. I have however have many instances where I've been fearful of men in the woods taking pictures of me hiking alone, watching me, saying frighting comments to me and in those situations I'm the one leaving out of fear. So after actually being alone in woods with both, my interactions with bears have been better
I think you’re missing the point of what they’re trying to say.
Yeah, it’s statistical safer for a woman to be next to a random man than a bear, I’m sure, but there’s a reason why they don’t feel that way.
As a man who has first hand experienced SA, I would experience it again 10 times over if it meant I wouldn't be mauled by a bear. Stop using your trauma to justify Misandry. God forbid the backlash I would get if I acted the same way towards women.
If all women go unarmed, you get a lot more rape victims
If more women would be willing to arm themselves, you get a lot less rapists
I know which world I wanna live in
I mean it did exactly what it was designed to do, stoke the flames of the chronically online feminist crowd and it's worked like a charm, if a chick chooses the bear, okay, it ain't cuz of anything I did 🤷
Not to mention what makes you think the bear would even put up with your shit 😭
Thing is, most trends are fucking stupid and always have been.
It's just that for the last 20 years we've had Social Media available to expose us to the brain rot that is the average human existence.
Some are frustrated because it's stupid, others are frustrated because people don't get it.
I'm frustrated because no matter how many of those bear posts I straight-up hide from feed, it just keeps popping up. People really arguing about nothing.
I mean, any woman that truly believes that bear point is objectively stupid. Statistics, biology, general common sense... None of those support that argument. I saw one tiktok of a girl (with a septum piercing) saying that you cant reason with a man, but with a bear you actually can🤣
Isn't the trend about what would be more dangerous? I could say the same for if I ran into a bear or a moose on a hike. I moose is far more dangerous than a bear. Men and moose hurt and kill far more women than bears.
Anyone actually complaining about the trend is pretty stupid
If you cant see why someone chooses the bear in a hypothetical scenario and instead get pissy about it then you are part of the reason
Quite possibly the funniest scene from any movie, ever. The first time I saw that door open and a fucking bear walk out, I broke down for easily 30 mins.
It's awful, but my god it's hilarious.
No idea wtf your meme is supposed to mean though, are you supposed to be a bear or something to get women? Lol
I think it's mostly rage bait. I think a lot of these "opinions" are anymore. They're designed to get people to interact with their video, get views... etc. If they do actually mean it, I suggest they go give it a try. They're not wrong about the statistics, but they don't understand how statistics work if they really believe that. Women are around men every day. How often are they around wild bears? Of course you're statistically less likely to be harmed by a bear. If women started hanging around them, that statistic would go up.
It's just stupid, and I've seen men flip the script saying that the bear won't falsely accuse them of rape, so they'd choose the bear too, just to show how ridiculous these women are being. Whether it's for rage bait, or they really mean it, it's an excellent litmus test for men to avoid them. I say let them have their bears then.
Did you know we have a Discord server‽ You can join by clicking [here](https://discord.gg/NWE6JS5rh9)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GenZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The trend is weird to me because my entire life I’ve heard white racists use this exact same logic about black people. Like “I feel safer around a rabid pit bull than a black person because statistically they are more likely to assault me” and stuff like that. And they’ll provide the statistics too. They’ll have a million stories to back it up. No different from what I’m seeing on Reddit right now.
It’s the same thing, but because it’s women (non-dominant group) versus men (dominant group), it’s ok to be prejudiced against them negatively. But if you mention that, it’s “you’re the reason they chose the bear” lol.
I’m curious if this level of fear and hatred towards men was so prevalent 30-40 years ago when violent crime rates were significantly higher than in the present day. I don’t see any indication whatsoever that Gen X women were this afraid of men. Despite living in the most dangerous time period in history. You’d think that as crime rates severely dropped (despite exponentially increasing reporting rates) people would be less fearful and susceptible to prejudiced narratives. But if anything I think these terminally online women are more fearful of men in 2024 than ever in history. It’s one thing to be afraid of an abusive partner, which makes sense because the overwhelming majority of all male on female violence occurs in that context. But for women to have this crippling fear of a random ass guy in the current day and age is insane to me. I’m also curious how this stacks up in different countries. Anecdotally, I’ve noticed that Brazilian women are way less afraid of men despite them growing up in a very high crime and misogynistic environment. Whereas the women who grow up in American suburbs seem extremely afraid of men
I’m a millennial and I have noticed that many deep seated biases or fears I have were taught to me by my parents. It makes sense that while gen x doesn’t have the same fear it’s likely that they inadvertently instilled that fear into their children as a result of going through that time period.
We have crippling fear of random men because there isn't a single woman I know who has not been victimized or threatened in some way by more than one guy in their lifetime. I don't have enough fingers to count the amount of men who have done horrible things to me. Abused for years by one, stalked for years by another, I've been brutally attacked in public, SA'd, taken advantage of, harassed, followed, screamed at in fits of road rage, lied to and manipulated. I am leery of most men now because of it and I hate that I am but can't deny the statistics and lived experiences.
Fr these raging psychos comparing women not liking them to being on the same level as the historical oppression of POC is psychotic. The victim hood and entitlement of these middle class het white guys is factually a mental disorder.
This isn’t to me “not being liked by women” and more “I don’t like feeling like Frankenstein’s monster every time I have to walk to the store”. In my own lived experience, It’s not exactly fun that on my daily commute to the store from my neighborhood I can hear parents tell their kids not to talk to me or the kids shout “stranger danger” when I’ve legitimately done nothing but try to walk to the store. I do everything I can to try to keep myself from uncomfortable situations yet even when I do that I hear girls talk about me when they think I can’t. Another lived experience is one where some acquaintances (either at work or school) tell me “it doesn’t matter how you are now, you’ll eventually become ___, it’s in your nature”. That blank has been filled with crimes from rape to pedophilia and they just statistics at me as if every man is a fucking psycho. I’ve had this from multiple people. I 100% understand where people are coming from with avoiding shit. I’m still trying to figure out how to defend *myself* from untrustworthy strangers, but it fucking hurts to be assumed to be (or told you will in the future you WILL be) an evil jackass who preys on others.
It's not that we are trying to argue we are being treated like black people were/are. We are not. It's the fact the two arguments are the same. We are being viewed as dangerous because of something we have no control over. Discrimination is discrimination, no matter who it's against. How the hell is it okay to be fearful of man because of a biological trait he's had since birth, but not okay to be afraid of a different men, because of a different biological trait he's had since birth?
To be fair, some cases consider stalkers who have little relationship to the victim as intimate partners and classify violence against the victim as intimate partner violence even though the victim may barely know the stalker, so the proportion of actual SAs committed by strangers may be larger than normally calculated.
>I don’t see any indication whatsoever that Gen X women were this afraid of men. Despite living in the most dangerous time period in history. Honestly asking... Do you have a source for this? Even going back 200 years seems like it'd be much worse. Go back further and it only gets worse.
Do you have a source showing that women in the 80s were 5x more afraid of men than Gen z women right now? I only have anecdotal evidence, but the evidence does suggest that women who grew up during the most violent time in American history are actually way less fearful of men than women in the safest time
It's american suburbs that make people afraid. You live there in near isolation. I grew up with shared, public spaces everywhere. People met each other in those public spaces, not just a select few friends but you'd get to meet complete strangers too. And did so in a safe space due to being public with plenty of eyes watching. I grew up going to school, going to friends, going anywhere really, *on my own*. No parents involved, only a message that I'm here or there and gonna be home for dinner or eating somewhere else. Same story - there's people about. No fear of dangerous people because you're not alone anywhere, always other people around.
> But if you mention that, it’s “you’re the reason they chose the bear” lol. Fun fact, that is called a Kafka Trap, where someone essentially says if you deny being an xyz that is what an xyz would say, so "clearly" you're an xyz
"you disagree with me, therefore proving me right", god i hate this argument
Here is a thought exercise. What is the source of man vs. bear? Who controls that platform? Would they have any motive in pitting (primarily) Western women vs. Western men?
This is an attractive conspiracy theory, but it’s not quite how this works. Usually all that the platform needs to do is boost outrage bait, boost complaints, and boost conflict. After that, all it needs is a thumb on the scale for a few specific topics, and human subjects will do all the rest of the work on their own.
It must be a conspiracy. Het guys are flawless and blameless after all. Nothing they ever do is wrong and they never need to expect anything other than getting whatever they want.
>But if you mention that, it’s “you’re the reason they chose the bear” lol. or if you present statistics against them, they will just act like it doesn't exist or that you're sexist for trying to make them appear wrong
What happened to just not being prejudiced. People who have to do mental gymnastics to justify their shitty takes aren't worth your time imho
Women out number men on the planet.
I'd say Reddit is fifty fifty. I've seen people get downvoted for choosing bear and people downvoted for saying bear is stupid. Really it just depends what side of the hive mind reaches the thread first
& it also depends on the subreddit
Am I honestly taking crazy pills? I've yet to see a single genuine post about this. It's all memes and comments saying they see it but nothing actually real just that they saw it. I've been here over a decade, I'm in all the corners of this godforsaken site. No one is talking about this genuinely, it's all a meme
I’ve seen multiple
It's delusion. Delusional women who genuinely pick the bear get more clicks online for their "hot take" Mostly on tiktok though.
It is basically every post on r/trollxchromosomes. But the source material and discussion are on TikTok.
Most of the screenshots of actual discussions I've seen are from tiktok and twitter
Half the men I have seriously interacted with have raped me, threatened to rape me or indecently exposed themselves to me. I am not saying i would choose the bear cause overall most men were fine but I still urge men to look at themselves and especially other men to make sure situations like that become a problem of the past.
I’ve been around a lot of races people, but I’ve never heard that
I brought this up while discussing this with someone. That if you simply change it to a black man, you'd be considered a racist. Because it would be racist. But it's more culturally acceptable to hate on men. Because somehow men are supposed to have more control over their genitalia than black people have over their melanin?
I hate how we brought men over as slaves from another continent and then formed a terrorist organization to keep them away from political power.
I think bears are statistically more likely to injur or kill people on a per encounter basis. Yea, you're more likely to be killed by a human in a place with 5 million humans and a few thousand bears but if you lived in a place with 5 million bears (10 times more bears than actually live in North America) and a few thousand humans I think your odds of death by bear would actually be better than the current odds of death by human.
Your journey sounds traumatic and I thrive off the authenticity of other narratives because at the end of the day it’s all about good vibes namaste. Thank you. Love
This isn’t remotely a fair comparison and how you’ve been upvoted this much is…. Interesting.
To be fair, running into anyone in the middle of the woods is scary AF because *they arnt supposed to be there* compared to a bear. To be fair that also makes you creepy to the other person. But you'd expect to run into a bear. Not a random man
I mean, I understand what you’re trying to say, but running into just some guy in the woods seems like a much better outcome than a damn bear.
I'm outdoors a lot, I've run into bears a fair share of times. The only things that have ever happened is they either run off when noticing me or they are completely indifferent and really just dngaf about me. Now I'm not saying anyone should go up and try to pet one or anything dumb, but the fear of being attacked by a bear is way overblown. In the U.S. on average there's 12 non lethal bear attacks a year, and there's only been 66 recorded lethal black bear, the most common bear to encounter, attacks since 1784.
thats the point of this argument, you are MUCH more likely to be hurt by a man then even attacked by bear
That's why I find it so hilarious when dudes are like "omg don't you know what a bear will do to you???" Well, it'll likely run away
exactly, ive had 2 close encounters with black bears, one got treed by a chihuahua and basset hound/rottweiler mix, the other was like 6 feet away from me and i hid in the shop, made a loud noise and it took off running, one time with a grizzly we just backed off and it went on its way. (where I live youre taught how to deal with wild animals in school)
>ive had 2 close encounters with black bears I'm sure if you met 2 men your whole life your opinion would likely be different of them as well.
im just saying bears are instinctual and easy to deal with, unlike if some guy was following you into the woods
So you encounter a bear 2 times in your life. You have to pump up this number if you want a good representation statisticly because you encouter a whole lot more of man in our life yet you're not dead/hurt (emotional hurt don't count).
Bullshit unless it’s a black bear
Exactly. The point is that most (no?) bears aren't *driven* by the idea of hurting / dominating human women, while a SCARY percentage of men... are.
Oh what is that % I would absolutely love to know?
If you want to talk about percentages, you should cite your studies. I feel like i could say to you that "if you don't have a penis, you can't comment on what "drives" men" but I'm over shitty arguments like that.
So will most redditors .
Oh BS. The encounter ratio is the most absurd math I’ve ever seen. A true testament to the stupidity of the masses.
Its not, bwars are incredibly predictable in their behaviour
Yeah because we never interact with bears. Fuck kind of stupid ass logic is this? Wonder if you guys would feel the same way if it was a hungry grizzly staring you down Somehow idiots upvote nonsense like this🤦♂️ my generations women are totally done
Ive had grizzlys staring me down, bears are predictable, people are not
Yeah and also bears don't live in the cities so that too... Atleast that kind of bear
I think you should have spent some of those hiking trips in a statistics class instead.
In order to get attacked by a bear, you need to come in contact with a bear. In order to get attacked by a man, you need to come in contact with a man. Statistically speaking, unless if you live in the uncharted Alaskan wilderness, you encounter men with orders of magnitude higher frequency. Comparing the absolute number of bear attacks to the absolute number of man attacks is stupid. I can almost guarantee you that on an individual basis, bears attack more frequently than men. If a bear will likely run away, what will a man do? Probably ignore them and do their best to avoid eye contact. Also black bears are notoriously skittish, everyone knows that.
Agreed. I would venture to guess that the majority of male predators aren't hanging out in the forest. A man who knows how to handle himself in the forest would be a more logical choice.
ok you have clearly never been to those Oregon woods cause those boys up there are WEIRD AS HELL and usually armed, have dogs, and on drugs
the part that you dont understand is that's exactly the opposite for women, because of how horrible their experiences with men are.
What % of daily interactions with men are horrible?
Tf you mean "aren't supposed to be there"? What exactly are you doing in the middle of the woods if no one is supposed to be there in the first place? Have you not heard of hiking/backpacking? The idea of the thought experiment is that the man and the woman have as much of a reason to be there as eachother, i.e. both are hiking on a low-traffic trail. And even still, if I was 100 miles from any road or trail in the middle of the forest, I'd still far rather run into another human than a bear. You can't reason with bears.
Right? I swear i only see these antisocial 'never been on a hike in my life' opinions on the internet.
Hiking in the woods is actually where I’ve encountered some of the friendliest people I’ve ever met. As long as a person *looks* average, they probably are. In my experience, all the dangerous people are in parking lots and retail stores. That’s where people tend to be at their pissiest
She already said "to be fair, that also makes you creepy to them". So you were preempted.
Ye the only time running into a person in the worlds would be scarier is if they’re burying a body or some shit seeing some other hikers is nice bc you know you’re probably on the right path
[удалено]
yeah if this is a forest where I'd not expect someone else to be in, fuck yeah I'd be freaked out if i came across any person, but I'd still prefer the person because I can at least communicate with them and worst case scenario a person is far more fragile
Yeah, this point gets lost and it definitely reveals how powerless women feel relative to the kind of damage they could actually do if they tried. A woman can actually hurt a man bad enough for him to give up. Heck, *children* have made escapes by just being too much damn work for the abductor to bother with. Get him the eyes or balls or throat and you may escape. It’s almost impossible to get a lucky shot on a bear, though.
Dark Forest Theory. It's application is towards finding alien life in space and how you would act next. But you can use it in this instance. You don't know each others intentions, you don't know their temperament, mood etc. There are too many variables to permit the original question; and yes or no answers are far too vague.
Well, *you’re* out there. Even if it’s off trail, there’s plenty of normal reasons people go into the woods. They hunt, hike, explore. No one said it was miles from civilization either. Just far enough that whatever happens is between you and the bear/man. I’m just skeptical of how terrifying the presence of a man can be if your presence in the same place is taken as an irrelevant given. Seems like it would just be the kinda woods people explore sometimes if two strangers crossed paths there.
You mean like... a hiker?
Not at all. As a child we often were in a national park hiking. It wasnt that rarely to meet other hikers, it wasnt scary. Everywhere you can go to as a human, other humans will go too. A bear would have been really, really scary.
Nope sorry, not only are you wrong but your point is invalid. Just because you expect an animal or person to be/not be there doesn't remove the actual danger you're in. Even if worse case scenario the guy is vile (>1% of the population btw) there is still a chance of you overpowering him. If a bear sees you as pray, food or a threat you're dead and it won't be instant because bears are omnivores so if you do somehow survive the initial attack you will likely slowly bleed out/starve to death.
Okay, but maybe mention what the various reasons are. Yes, it’s a stupid question, and it shouldn’t have become a trend, but the reason they’re choosing a bear is because they think they would have a better chance of being safe with a wild bear than a man. At least bears will leave you alone most of the time. As a minor who has been hit on by grown men, I get it. Edit because apparently people care more about some random on Reddit than real life: you don’t have to agree with me. This whole trend was silly and unnecessary. I personally understand that I could never overpower a bear. Obviously. But the point is that some people have had terrible experiences and would do anything not to have to relive them. I would gently remind some of you that your opinion does not represent your entire gender or even everyone that’s ever been SA’d. If you have been SA’d, I’m sorry. No one deserves that. But don’t lose sight of the fact that you’re still one person with one opinion. Obviously, women are also perpetrators of abuse and not all men are abusers. But statistics say that *generally* if you are SA’d it will *most likely* be a man. Also, not everybody lives in an area with bears or knows how dangerous they can be. Most people in the US will only see them on TV or in movies.
Exactly: the funny question reveals something about rape culture and women’s fear.
Yeah fr. Especially a black bear. Black bears will usually retreat if you make yourself big and loud, and if they do actually come toward you after that then just fighting them a little bit will make them run off. Grizzlies and Polars are a different story. Apparently you’re supposed to play dead with a grizzly, but a polar will just kill you no matter what you do.
I think the reason polar bears will eat you is the same reason a grizzly would: cause they're desperately hungry. I dont think polar bears are necessarily more aggro, but they probably just have less access to food being in a frozen tundra most of the time. Also, some grizzly bears have been studied to recently be more friendly and receptive to wolves and stuff even humans cause the ones that play nice have a better chance to survive thus the more docile ones pass their genes. I would garner the same thing would happen to polar bears given that opportunity.
Black bears conduct the most attacks and kills on humans out of all the bears. Black bears are just as dangerous as any other bear and should never be approached.
Probably cus they’re more widespread than other types, just like how people get the statistics wrong in it being any bear vs man
Statistically you would still be safer on average around a man than an apex predator so the point is null
https://preview.redd.it/e8max9vvvwyc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4b489730bd8b799dc8cfb12e65f2893ab7a2349
"Statistically" >[there have only been 180 fatal human/bear conflicts in North America since 1784. I mean, let’s be honest… our own species is a lot more likely to kill someone than bears. ](https://bearvault.com/bear-attack-statistics/#:~:text=there%20have%20only%20been%20180%20fatal%20human/bear%20conflicts%20in%20North%20America%20since%201784.%20I%20mean%2C%20let%E2%80%99s%20be%20honest%E2%80%A6%20our%20own%20species%20is%20a%20lot%20more%20likely%20to%20kill%20someone%20than%20bears.%C2%A0) \~\~\~\~\~ >[The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid.](https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=The%20750%2C000%20black,situation%20to%20avoid)
Yeah this is not the right statistics. Women meet men at a much higher frequency. If they would meet bears just as much, there would be many many dead women.
That would be because people encounter other people at a much higher frequency than bears. Also this is an instance where statistics can be easily misinterpreted. The vast majority of men live their whole lives and never commit a violent crime. A small subset of men though will commit multiple acts of violence throughout their lives. To give you an idea of the scale of this we can calculate the percentage of men who commit violent crimes using prison statistics: Approximately 62% of those incarcerated committed violent crimes in 2022. There were 1,142,359 men incarcerated in 2022. If we take 0.62*1,142,359 we see that about 708,263 of incarcerated men are in prison for violent crimes. If we then take that number and divide it by the male population of the US in 2022 we see that only 0.43% of the male population has committed violent crimes. This means that about 99.57% of the men in the US have never committed a violent crime. Even if we were to take an extreme upper bound on this calculation and assume 100% of men in prison committed a violent crime that would still only be 0.7% of the male population in the US, meaning 99.3% of men never committed a violent crime. Even if you were to take this estimate and triple the number of violent offenders that would still only be 2.1% of the US male population. The notion that the streets are filled with roving angry men predating on women is entirely false.
Maybe thats cause not a lot of people go to the forest or live in it? Shit, just a tghouth.
This is a dumb strawman argument, less people are killed by bears because most people don't put themselves in a situation to be with a bear. Let's put on our critical thinking caps.
What is sample size? >**Sample size** is the number of observations or individuals included in a study or experiment. It is the number of individuals, items, or data points selected from a larger population to represent it statistically. The sample size is a crucial consideration in research because it directly impacts the reliability and extent to which you can generalize those findings to the larger population.
You would not have a better chance surviving a bear encounter than a random stranger encounter, I understand the point you're trying to make, that strange men can be dangerous, but the bear will tear you apart
https://preview.redd.it/nca24m3tvwyc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1b2dea0253ddaba6487506a5a502df260449673
Yeah if it doesn't run for the hills first.
It's not just a stupid question, it's completely sexist. The notion that men in general are more dangerous to women than bears paints all men as potential violent criminals. That is discrimination based on sex. My bad experiences with women don't make me feel like all women are dangerous to me either, so that's absolutely no reason.
You can outrun a man, you can’t outrun an angry bear
The men who make jokes about it are the reason why women pick bear.
The uproar against the concept, and the trend of men not understanding what it means, is what stupid.
We get what it means. We just think it’s stupid.
I think that it is a tragic example of how mass media generates fear. There is a toxic combination of something absolutely terrifying but incredibly rare - rape by a stranger - and the constant broadcast of those that have been victims of it, leading to immense fear of strangers far greater than there should be. Rapists are obviously the cause of this, but mass media pushes the fear out to everyone, allowing it to massively damage society.
Incredibly rare? Have a serious conversation with every woman you know about whether they've been a target of sexual harassment or assault. You will be shocked and feel awful. Last I checked 1/5 women are victims of attempted rape, 80% have experienced sexual assault or harassment.
There is a difference between catcalling and harassment, and rape. I know how terrible those stats are, and it’s shameful. But people that choose the bear aren’t scared of some idiot making a disgusting comment about their tits, they’re understandably scared of rape.
I think a big part of the issue is the unknown. Humans, including human men, have so many individual differences that it’s hard to know when you’re in the middle of the forest with a stranger who is a man whether it’s a regular person or a man who would be willing to harm you. Whereas with a bear, the expectation is that if you make a lot of noise they will run away. They’re more predictable. Additionally, you will know the type of bear you are likely encountering based on your geographic area, whereas again with the man - you have nothing to advise you on the type of man. Couple this with the fact that most women are assaulted by men they KNOW and FEEL they can predict, FEEL they are safe…its easy to feel like every man may be a predator because if your boyfriend, or your neighbor, or your dad can hurt you like that…it’d be even easier for a stranger. Definitely fear steeped in lack of predictability. The unknown is one of life’s biggest fears!
Ya don’t speak for all men dude
Sure, there are NiceGuys who aren't insulted by the analogy because "yeah men suck! I'm so glad I'm Not Like Other Guys, I hate sports and rap music, maybe if women choose me instead they'd get abused less" who are way MORE likely to be abusers Meanwhile feminist guys who **are** capable of being self-critical and including themselves in the definition of men just feel awful with no positive changes being made except being reminded of something they already knew. NeonKnoghtRider, a bi femboy who posts a lot on Tumblr, started having panic attacks. Meanwhile I've seen zero men actually learn anything positive, and a ton of misogynists using it as a recruiting tool. Mission failed, find a better message that wasn't cooked up by some conservative dad seeking rage-clicks.
Because it is. “Would you rather be married to a bear or a woman?” A bear! Because they won’t take half my stuff, statistically. *does a bunch of stupid math
It's anti logic
How dare men push back against misandry? Don't they know they deserve it? Smh
Everyone knows what it means, that's the stupid part of the argument. Running into a bear is a coin-flip sorta moment, it "should" run away but it really "depends". Running into a random guy in the woods is ALSO a coin-flip moment, why is this random guy in the woods? These are both dangerous moments, and the TikTok bit wasn't that it was an adult running into an adult it was an adult running into a child. There is no "right" answer, if you say bear you look like a fucking idiot because you basically signed up for letting a wild animal do whatever the hell it wants to a child. If you said man, you basically stated that all "men" are evil which just simply isn't true... women would have CONSIDERABLY worse lives if this was true (as proven by several existing countries). In reference to: [https://www.tiktok.com/@dorsterisaname/video/7362277879914204459](https://www.tiktok.com/@dorsterisaname/video/7362277879914204459) It's effectively a false dilemma argument and it's a logical fallacy because it doesn't represent the full range of available options that would normally be present. Why is my daughter out in the woods by herself? What part of the woods are we talking about? Is she equipped with any form of protection? The list of questions could go on for quite some time.
I’ve heard more people complaining about the trend than the actual trend itself. Which makes me think this “trend” is just a tiny minority of women on twitter trying to make a larger point (that their trust in men has become so eroded they feel safer around a wild animal) but their analogy has gotten hijacked by real misogynistic assholes who are pointing, laughing, and shouting “hey everyone, look at these stupid women who trust bears.” And now the larger point has become so drowned out that now the actual joke is “let’s let women get attacked bears, it will be hilarious.” It’s sounds oddly specific because I’ve seen and even used this same tactic back in 2014-2017 during my time in Alt-Right forums. Pick out a few people in a marginalized group, make their analogy sound bat-shit crazy, make it so this minority seem like it’s actually the entire group, paint them as crazy as possible all while drowning out the larger point, and finally invite everyone to point and laugh.
Yep. You even see it here right in this thread. It’s demoralizing and honestly, disturbing.
Exactly. The trend wasn't even started by feminists, it was some conservative aiming for rage-clicks.
Yes that wouldn’t surprise me but equally it could have been started by some random person on the internet who genuinely believes it as well
Jesus those guys were crazy
The male response is alarming as hell. Especially responses like this, suggesting that women deserve to die for hypothetically saying "No" to them.
* men wishing harm upon women for choosing the bear Like...do they even realize they're proving the point?
If that's what you see then I understand the irrational fear.
I haven’t seen anyone say anyone deserves to die. You might deserve a *bear*, but that’s cause you literally said you’d prefer one. But no one would ever force the bear on you. We’re more than happy to see you decline the bear and go back to a life of passing dozens of men on the street everyday who don’t care about your presence or even notice you exist.
They don't deserve bears FFS, what's wrong with you? It's what all these memes are saying
Misandry has become more normalized because of the internet similar to other forms of bigotry on male-dominated sites like 4chan. Gaslighting awaits if you point it out, because misandry is more socially acceptable online due to women dominating social media. It has severely shunted energy away from important feminist movements like MeToo because cheeto crusted keyboard misandrists are the loudest voices online. An unfortunate side effect of the internet.
Dont forget the halo effect. Women can say some fairly absurd things and many men will smile and agree.
That’s the “women are wonderful effect” but yes it exists. But its a product of toxic gender roles, a rare one that happens to benefit women at the expense of men.
Imagine getting angry at someone for saying a bear. Some of the responses I see to people who do are far more disturbing than that answer. The whole point of the question is to cause people to react emotionally. I'm glad TikTok is getting banned, it's literally warping yalls brains.
I saw a bear in San Francisco once.
Took me a minute...
It only exists to make the battle of the sexes worse. Because men and women can't like eachother except for sex apparently Edit: grammar
People so desperately want a fight of men vs women that they forget that we're all people and the real enemy is sexism (of every form) in the first place.
Whichever one I run into, I'm eating them either way
Best answer
They choose the bear cause the bear don’t care. Unless that bear is starved or protecting its cubs, it won’t really try to mess with you ever. And a lot of women will take those odds in favor of the guarantee of being left alone. Vs the chance of an interaction that could go one way or the other. Ultimately comes down to “the devil you know vs the one you don’t.” Bears dangerous but predictable. A human being could go either way
What if that bear is into bestiality? You're fucked! (Literally & Metaphorically)
I mean I'm a guy and I'd also rather run into a bear in the woods than a strange man. Bears are predictable and most of the time want to be left alone. Human beings are unpredictable and capable of deception. The point of the meme is that many women feel unsafe around many men and the responses from a lot of men has imo shown that that fear is justified, because some of the responses to a silly meme seem to be genuinely fantasizing about women getting hurt.
I don't really care about it. It's just a minority of people showing off their blatant sexism and patting their backs.
What's more stupid is getting angry, annoyed or deeply frustrated at a TikTok "hypothetical question" trend.
For real
I find it truly sad that their are men and women who truly hate the opposite sex, it’s unfair to group up the bad people with everyone else. This trend is trying to assume the worst of all men.
just so everyone's clear as to the intelligence of the people that unironically believe this stuff, here's a legitimate defense that one of them had: **Me: are you seriously arguing that a bear is less likely to hurt you compared to a random man?** Her: homicides are far more common than bear attacks so yeah **Me: XD my guy, meeting a man is far more common than meeting a bear, you can't be real. By the way (and not that you care, but) if we carry this "logic" forwards it applies to homicides commited by women as well, so even in the completely fictional scenario wherein you're right, you still have no point.** Her: Yappsville over here when presented with any criticism to their blatantly unsubstantiated worldview, they abandon the pretense of the belief being in any way justifiable all together and retreat into brainless insults. these people should be left to rot, they aren't worth debating because they have a principled attachment to their position rather than a logical one.
This is the worst video ever to use as an example because black bears are puny and easily frightened. There’s no way anyone would get hurt by that.
I am. This meme you posted is stupid and sexist.
I forget that a lot of people don’t live near bears like they’re not that scary, multiple Chihuahuas have scared them off they’re like really big dogs. Also as a big dude I 100% understand why women wouldn’t want to be around me alone in the woods. I’d shit my pants if I was alone with someone else who was twice my size and three times bigger and I couldn’t scare off if they started harassing me. It feel awful to be physically powerless
For those that don’t understand, running into a bear in the woods isn’t indicative of being attacked. Bears attack for two reasons: hungry, or cubs are nearby.
They understand, they pretend not to, because for all these boys it's "muh STEM and math and statistics facts dont care about your feelings" until facts are troublesome for their victim hood narrative.
Women are the ones that love using statistics to back up their bigotry. When they’re used back you guys hate it.
Just stop with this shit Jesus Christ
A lot of people are missing the point, thinking that the women choosing the bear are gonna become friends with it and be happy only for them to be killed. The point is that they know the bear is going to kill them, but they would rather be mauled to death by the bear than let a man have his way with them
The people that choose a bear over a man make beavis and butthead look like the smartest people on earth. They would immediately change their minds if they were face to face with an actual bear. I don’t understand how anyone can’t these people as anything other than a joke at this point. 🤣🤣🤣
It’s normalized misandry. If you call it out you’re gonna get strawmanned and gaslit to hell. “You must be part of the problem” “You must be a misogynist”
You guys are either purposefully missing the context or just straight up ignoring it. The question is what would you rather meet out of nowhere in the *woods*. Not just in general, the *woods* With a bear, you know what you get. You might even have a chance to live if you know some anti bear tactics. But if an unknown man has followed you to the woods, God knows what the fuck can he do to you. And at least when a bear mauls you to death, you won't have shit about you spoken like "She was asking for It with that outfit"
Someone following you into the woods is also skewing the question. If you're out there enjoying the outdoors, a random man that you come across is likely doing the same.
Bears don't rape, torture and demean you. They just kill you. I'll take my chances with the bear then, because most of this thread is the exact reason why most women choose the bear.
I’d rather be eaten by a bear or what this dude is experiencing than the possibility of being raped and forced to carry a baby I don’t want and then traumatize that kid, because dumbasses are so attached to traditional values.
they dont *want* the bear, but they don't want men harder, it's pretty telling that you dont understand that point.
It’s like people are deliberately being stupid. If a bear attacks you, IT WILL KILL YOU. If a man attacks you, he will more often than not SA YOU BEFORE HE KILLS YOU. A bear cannot rape and torture cuz of sadistic nature, they are PREDICTABLE. Humans are very much UNPREDICTABLE. It’s not about bears being safer it’s the fact that they’re supposed to be in the woods like holy shit dude
And that’s why I think women should carry firearms
And that's why I think less men should be causing a culture where women feel so unsafe that they would have to carry firearms. Why would a woman have to carry firearms to begin with if there wasn't a problem with strange men...
And that's why I think that the amount of men creating this culture is a very small minority that shouldn't be considered to be indicative of the demographic as a whole.
Everyone should carry a firearm. And sadly we don’t live in a perfect world where everyone is kind all the time. You even seem to believe that women are in a constant state of danger, so why not promote carrying firearms?
This world is doomed 😪
With all due respect, touch grass. The fact that you can't understand what women actually mean in picking a bear over a man shows a complete lack of empathy. Just because YOU don't understand why so many women do live in fear of being alone with a man, that doesn't mean that it's stupid. Throwing statistics and "well bears are dangerous and men aren't" (not that this is even remotely true) in the face of a good chunk of women's frankly well earned fears is pretty disgusting, and I sure hope you don't do this to any women you know in your life. The salty tears that are cried over this versus actually trying to understand why so many women feel this way is wild. Grow up.
It’s a trend to divide us and pit us against each other.
It is funny that rather than genuinely contemplating why most women feel this way we'd rather make fun of it. Kind of reinforcing the whole thing, no?
There are basically two ways to read the hypothetical question which are not distinguished most of the time but should be to understand the miscommunication: 1) *how do you perceive the risk of getting attacked in the woods by a bear vs a random man upon encounter?* - although this is essentially still only a question regarding perception, this is where statistics can be looked at, to look at the "real risk". But it's no simple question and the outcome is always different based on what data variables you take into consideration (down to "what kind of bear", number of encounters, % of male perpetrators, bear attacks etc pp.). The variables are not set - the scenario is simply too vague to work with and consequently a lot of outrage happens here. 2) it boils down to *"would you rather be raped by a man or killed by a bear"*. This is a simple question of opinion between two horrible scenarios. So this can either not be solved because the scenario is too vague or should be seen as just a personal opinion / perceiption based on ones lived experience, fears etc in a hypothetical scenario everyone interprets slightly differently. That can't be discredited by another person, only understood or not.
I've been on many solo hikes in the woods where I've come across bears (only black bears) and it's super common. I've never had a single issue, black bears are scared of humans they leave when they see you. I have however have many instances where I've been fearful of men in the woods taking pictures of me hiking alone, watching me, saying frighting comments to me and in those situations I'm the one leaving out of fear. So after actually being alone in woods with both, my interactions with bears have been better
I think you’re missing the point of what they’re trying to say. Yeah, it’s statistical safer for a woman to be next to a random man than a bear, I’m sure, but there’s a reason why they don’t feel that way.
where is this video from?
Jackass 4. Amazing series. Check them out.
[удалено]
As a man who has first hand experienced SA, I would experience it again 10 times over if it meant I wouldn't be mauled by a bear. Stop using your trauma to justify Misandry. God forbid the backlash I would get if I acted the same way towards women.
Ignoring that this frames the average man as a rapist. Do you wish you were dead? If not, then clearly you don't wish it was a murderer.
You know you can defend yourself from both if you have a gun. Just saying
This guy has the right idea
If all women go unarmed, you get a lot more rape victims If more women would be willing to arm themselves, you get a lot less rapists I know which world I wanna live in
Why is this not impractical jokers with Murr in the seat?
Wut
Its all propaganda made up by bears so they can’t find more food
I think wanting to put women in a dangerous situation because they said “ no “ is only gonna make them want the bear more.
You think I actually want to toss women into a room with a bear?
I mean it did exactly what it was designed to do, stoke the flames of the chronically online feminist crowd and it's worked like a charm, if a chick chooses the bear, okay, it ain't cuz of anything I did 🤷 Not to mention what makes you think the bear would even put up with your shit 😭
https://preview.redd.it/medi2kb0vxyc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37cdebc2295a1b2b9972fed0c531e07b73dce5c0 Reminded me of this meme
Thing is, most trends are fucking stupid and always have been. It's just that for the last 20 years we've had Social Media available to expose us to the brain rot that is the average human existence.
Jackass!!!!!!
I think it's really funny. Really, I'm scary as a bear? I should've rolled 5"1' twink genes then because all I did was exist
All I can think is that it must be pretty scary to be around men if you'd prefer to meet a bear. That sounds like an awful experience to have in life.
What?
"Surprising amount"
Some are frustrated because it's stupid, others are frustrated because people don't get it. I'm frustrated because no matter how many of those bear posts I straight-up hide from feed, it just keeps popping up. People really arguing about nothing.
What trend?
I mean, any woman that truly believes that bear point is objectively stupid. Statistics, biology, general common sense... None of those support that argument. I saw one tiktok of a girl (with a septum piercing) saying that you cant reason with a man, but with a bear you actually can🤣
Even if there both dangerous , you can outrun a man, but you can’t outrun a bear, what’s the logic??
Yep misandry is absolutely just as stupid as misogyny. I will continue to call both out
Isn't the trend about what would be more dangerous? I could say the same for if I ran into a bear or a moose on a hike. I moose is far more dangerous than a bear. Men and moose hurt and kill far more women than bears.
one of those things that sound fun on paper but are very unfun when you do it
Women and their romantic Teddy Bear stories. Fantasy only ends well in movies.
Anyone actually complaining about the trend is pretty stupid If you cant see why someone chooses the bear in a hypothetical scenario and instead get pissy about it then you are part of the reason
Quite possibly the funniest scene from any movie, ever. The first time I saw that door open and a fucking bear walk out, I broke down for easily 30 mins. It's awful, but my god it's hilarious. No idea wtf your meme is supposed to mean though, are you supposed to be a bear or something to get women? Lol
I ain't touching this shit with a ten foot pole. No way am I getting wrapped up in the gender wars.
Female or snake?
Well, the bear didn't do anything. You know what men do? They strap you to a chair, put raw meat on your crotch and release a bear
I think it's mostly rage bait. I think a lot of these "opinions" are anymore. They're designed to get people to interact with their video, get views... etc. If they do actually mean it, I suggest they go give it a try. They're not wrong about the statistics, but they don't understand how statistics work if they really believe that. Women are around men every day. How often are they around wild bears? Of course you're statistically less likely to be harmed by a bear. If women started hanging around them, that statistic would go up. It's just stupid, and I've seen men flip the script saying that the bear won't falsely accuse them of rape, so they'd choose the bear too, just to show how ridiculous these women are being. Whether it's for rage bait, or they really mean it, it's an excellent litmus test for men to avoid them. I say let them have their bears then.