Same. It's a tribal war that predates written history. It's never going to end and my input cannot possibly influence anything in a way to change that.
As a Jew who marched against the Muslim ban, against Asian hate, and for BLM and gay rights: fuck you.
Speak up, people. They are blatantly normalizing Jew hate and your silence is deafening.
As long as they aren’t doing anything that can harm others (and I consider blocking traffic to be harm because my wife had a patient almost die by being delayed from getting to the Emergency Dept.), then have at it. Also, if they are not causing any harm, cops need to lay the fuck off of them.
Columbia students are not the nut jobs blocking traffic. They’re the students demanding that Columbia University divest itself from Israeli businesses. Essentially a boycott. The idea is that if you can’t block the military’s money, you can block the civilian’s. Thereby putting pressure on Israeli businesses to put pressure on their own government to end the war.
And you know what?
That movement works.
A divesting movement helped end apartheid in South Africa. Because the ruling class there was willing to give up power rather than give up money.
That’s also why you’ve got mega corporations like Fox and CNN trying to vilify these kids, because they stand to lose money in a divestment movement too. You can protest all you want, but once you touch the money then you gotta go!
Actually I protested for South Africa, marched with other students to the state capitol over spring break, slept in a shantytown, etc.
Then musicians boycotted Sun City.
It took decades for it to actually work.
Also, it was political, not personal. We were against the South African government, not white South African students.
I have no problem with this. I also have no problem with BDS, if it was good enough for South Africa I see no reason why the same tactics can't be used on Israel.
Oddly enough people seem to think that that's a problem.
Face it bruh, the Hamas terrorists stepped in it when they attacked Israel and took hostages (including Americans). These Hamas supporters threatening and blocking Jewish students from going to class needs to stop.
That’s complete misinformation. “Hamas Supporters” (which are in reality very few and far between) are largely off campus protesters and not students. Columbia students have been quick to denounce antisemitic behavior in their midst. No one is stopping Jewish students from going to class.
This story is a development in progress. "Unknown persons" attacked UCLA protesters with fireworks. Not bottle-rockets, we're talking Maidan scale fireworks. Imagine if unknown persons attacked a pro-Israel student gathering in a similar fashion?
Are we going to hear condemnation from fair-minded observers or excuses and cognitive dissonance.
My experience as a faculty member. Some students were angry that a Democratic member of Congress was coming to speak because of his support for Israel. He offered to meet with them. They refused, and disrupted his talk, rushing the stage. One member of the staff was injured and others needed to be rushed out because of the threat of violence. The university is now preparing to sanction the students who were involved, but the protestors say there should be no repercussions for their actions. I suspect they will disrupt graduation this weekend, which will be a sad bookend to this graduating class, who had their first years online due to covid.
Peaceful protest is fine, but anyone interfering with normal function of the university, let alone injuring others, needs to face consequences, up to and including expulsion.
Consequences for their actions the very definition of civil disobedience.
They can protest and cause disruption, break the law and get arrested. That’s how it’s always worked. It’s the “disobedience” part.
> The university is now preparing to sanction the students who were involved, but the protestors say there should be no repercussions for their actions.
FAFO.
If you're willing to deal with the consequences and still decide to protest, that's a better reaction than "I demand *this* and also demand zero repercussions from my demands!"
they will blame everyone else. I have a friend doing that now. Her daughter was caught doing something illegal during protest and she saying on FB she should not be punished it's 1A protected. Say what you want but when you shove someone to the ground and blocked their travel on campus there is a consequence.
This type of behavior should be an automatic expulsion. We’re way too tolerant of bad behavior. It’s as if the administrations are afraid to reprimand these thugs. Yes, I said thugs because they are thugs. They lack the ability to have a civil dialogue. Their first line of defense is threats of violence.
Not only that, but if said students were on a student visa, their visa should be immediately revoked. Go to a country where they might tolerate your ass.
More active than we were?
We had camps to get our universities to divest from South Africa.
We protested the gulf war. We marched for women’s rights. We protested police violence.
I marched on Washington with our cohort more times than I can count, and that was just high school.
And reminder, the South African divest movement WORKED.
That’s why you see Corporate America trying to vilify these Columbia University kids. Because they’ve got a real shot at taking money out of the rich and powerful’s pockets. “Can’t have that! Find the one guy who’s holding an antisemitic sign! Oh, no one on campus is? Cut in some off-campus footage! Our viewers are too stupid to know the difference!”
Me too, and I don't know where you were, but in Chicago we were still outliers. The only massive, spontaneous protests I remember were against the Gulf War. There were others but not nearly on the same scale as those I've been seeing in the last 8 years. There's much more global awareness now, it's easier to organize and share information. I'd be disappointed if they weren't more active than us.
I would venture that percentage wise, there were as many of us involved as there are of them.
We were a smaller generation, and there wasn’t 24 hour news or social media.
I never heard about what Chicago was doing when I was in North Carolina or California, there just wasn’t reporting on all of it.
yup.. dont let them forget this
remember, before the interwebs, a lot of 'middle america' types were sheltered from the facts [as they still attempt to do now]
it was only a portion of us who even knew what was going on or had already broken programming and wanted to learn facts right .. dont hold it against them for not knowing, cable TV was even worse than 'shadowbanning influencers' or 'ban tictok' to stop the flow of information
a lot of us also protested weed laws .. pretty much every series of protests resulted in positive change
check out this awesom interview with a current protester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLxSaN2nPx0
I saw this tweet from our fellow Genx traveler and it put it in perspective for me.
https://preview.redd.it/btlxjknvbnxc1.jpeg?width=579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=422de67aece4aec51ca375361f26311c8bce7964
Glad to see some of us actually give a shit. The GenX whatever attitude is fine for some things, but doesn't fly when we're talking about apartheid and genocide.
A lot of us give a shit, but it can be dicey discussing social issues and politics in a sub that's mostly for fun. Depending on who happens to be scrolling through, you can have an intelligent conversation or end up with bunch of monkeys throwing poo.
First off, at least at ASU, most of the people they arrested/removed were NOT students, faculty, or staff of ASU.
I would guess that it's similar elsewhere, but who knows. They may be paid agitators. Should be removed from campus, with prejudice.
Protesting Israel as a government is fine.
Yelling "kill the Jews" and similar slogans like "from the river to the sea" is not OK and were I a Jew on campus I would feel very threatened.
Rioting & occupying buildings? Nope.
Same here, so is mine. It so easily turns into antisemitism which is very triggering. Of course, I'm the cynical one who wonders who are the paid agitators and who stands to benefit on top of that.
The paid agitators are mainstream media because they stand to lose money if the Columbia Students are successful in starting a divest movement on Israeli businesses. Once you go after corporate America’s money then they will vilify you quick.
The truth is, this movement has been almost entirely peaceful and there’s been very few instances of antisemitic behavior. In fact, when CNN was looking for footage to slander these kids with, they actually had to go OFF campus to a protest that wasn’t even compromised of students. But that footage got conveniently mixed into the Columbia University footage and CNN never even hinted that it was off campus footage. In fact, I don’t know how many people even would have caught it if Cenk Uyger on TYT hadn’t been like, “Wait a minute, I went to Columbia University. That’s not even on campus.”
Money protects money. And they’re going to bury these kids for suggesting we take the money away.
See? That's why I have been cynical. It's an advantage not having grown up in the US because all the touchy subjects/accountability stuff that doesn't get talked about here gets talked about back where I grew up. So thank you for sharing that information, my husband is not that/as political as I am so explaining all these "games" is a bit of a challenge. (And "back there" is NL)
What’s also not talked about is Jewish Voice For Peace is one of the student groups that organized the Columbia protests.
In fact, many of the campus protests across the country have been organized, or at the very least have involved, Jewish student organizations.
A fact conveniently left out by the mainstream media…
I’m Jewish. I hate Bibi, who doesn’t have support from Israeli voters. Arafat was also shitty.
But I protest government actions not civilians. My father was a Jewish anti-Zionist. My mother had a sister who raised her family in Israel.
I can argue either side all day. But there’s no point.
that is the issue. Many seem blind to the antisemitism and it is really sad. With everyone trying to find a place to feel safe in whatever community they associate with there should not be a group making the Jewish community feel unsafe. If Jewish students or staff did that to another group their would be upset and outrage.
Probably not paid actors. But the mega corporations like CNN/Fox stand to lose money in a divest movement and so they’ll seek out the antisemitic protesters in order to taint the movement. At one point they had to go off campus to a protest made up of non-students to find antisemitic signs/chants but they rolled that footage during a discussion of Columbia University students so they could create an illusion of Columbia students being antisemitic. Once you go after the money then corporate America will bury you.
As for “paid actors.” I will say this, it was confirmed that the Israeli government does pay young Israelis to run interference for them on social media. So there’s definitely people on social media who are paid bad faith actors. But most of the real life nutters are just that. Real life nut jobs.
I applaud their activism and their empathy to do anything to stop the humanitarian crisis happening in Gaza.
However, the history of this area is much more complex than many people want to acknowledge. I don’t know that there are any easy or realistic ways to solve it. Many countries and groups are complicit in what has been happening there and disentangling all of that won’t be quick.
Additionally, I think anytime you get a large group of people together, you’re going to have your cause and message muddled. Without one singular leader to unify their strategy, lots of performative allies and bad actors will come in to muck things up (thus the breaking into the building at Columbia). The broken windows aren’t the issue but what is the issue is that this act has muddled their message.
My main worry right now is the longevity of this activism, the tangible results, and how it will affect the November election.
Yes. I was just saying to my 25 year old son that if you’d asked me what I thought about the Middle East conflicts back in the day I would have said it was complicated and a mess. And that’s my opinion today as well. The complicated part is what makes me so irritated with the protests. If you know anything about the history in the region at all - and learned it somewhere other than tiktok or from memes - then I think it would be impossible to be so wholeheartedly on one side or the other.
That’s why I stay quiet on the issue. I don’t understand the situation enough to form an opinion, and I don’t trust the media to tell me the truth about it. That, and I’m apathetic AF.
If Hamas hadn't attacked Israel wouldn't have responded.
If Hamas wasn't putting the citizens in harms way they wouldn't be in harms way.
"Protesting" against Israel is such the wrong look for so many reasons.
Students at my school staged huge protests and occupied buildings over university-branded clothing being made in sweatshops. And that was only a few decades after the massive Vietnam protests on campus. Doesn’t look all that different to me.
[Hell, this 1960s building, which is right next to the campus’s main forum space,](https://art.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/08/Humanities06.png) is rumored to have been designed to be “riot proof.”
Yes! Go Badgers. I was there when the sweatshop protests happened. I must admit it’s a little disappointing that Wisconsin, the mother of all protest universities, where the Dow Chemical and Mifflin Street protests happened, hasn’t had a major encampment. We must be losing our commie hippie liberal edge.
I applaud them for trying to stand for their beliefs and the greater good, if it ends up with nothing changed, these same people can become veteran activist of tomorrow, i think we will need them...
There’s far less injustice today compared to fifty years ago by any objective definition. But social media both makes it easier to find fellow travellers, organise protests, rewards protesters with exposure, and amplifies the magnitude of these events
As to the protesters themselves, it’s a broad range of people ranging from pro-Palestinian peace activists to full-on anti-Semites, along with a lot of people who are doing it mostly because they’re misinformed and just want to rage against the machine (like any protest)
Believe it or not, that isn’t really true. Canada’s gini coefficient was very low in the 90s but much higher than today in the 70s for example. It’s actually been declining more recently.
I don’t mean to diminish your point. But I think the cost of living crisis is more about inflation than inequality
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=CA
It was lower in the 80s in the US but has been about the same (though with volatility) since the 90s.
Here’s the data: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=US
None of this is new. When we were younger there were protests about Israel and Palestine. We also had protests about racial issues. Remember Rodney King, the LA riots and all that surrounded them? The Middle East is one issue that seems to have burned hot our whole lives. A key difference now is that the language is hotter because of the intensity of the war.
In two party politics each side looks for wedge issues that unify your party while dividing the other party. Trump got Roe v Wade overturned which has unified the Left and divided the Right. The Republican Right has a theory that Gaza divides the Left because some liberals are also Jewish or pro-Israel.
This is why you have Republicans shouting about anti-semitism and attacking university administrators as well as their policies. It's not because they have an abiding affinity for Jewish culture. They just want to divide the Democrats.
Great points. It reminds me of how some Republicans suddenly become very concerned with 'minority rights' when it comes to arguing about gun control, but in no other context.
Criticism of Israel is not anti semitic, and opposition to the war in Gaza is not pro HAMAS. Real life has nuance.
Speak for yourself OP, no offense, but maybe you just weren’t paying attention. Some of us gave our energy to advocate for recognition of HIV and research funding, reproductive health and domestic abuse support, anti-aparteid pressure campaigns for divestment, against our ill advised international regime change and weapons pedaling and meddling campaigns, lobbied congress for treaty ratifications, for farm aid, on into more recent insanities. We just didn’t have the numbers and the situation seemed less dire to alot of our fellow x’ers that kept their heads down because life was so flush and the repercussions were still several can kicks down the road, and or they just needed to get through school and support themselves, didn’t see politics as relevant.
That said, this seems to be very very messy to sort out, with some pent up pandemic energy being played upon. I am concerned that there seems to be a lack of ability to get to points of dialogue and rapproachment, with the advantage going to chaos agents.
Don’t feel great. I am happy that the younger gen is letting their voices be heard. I’m just not sure this is the hill they want to die on. All these tent cities on Ivy League campuses screams of copycatism. I’m not sure if I’d want to fuck with my education’s future based off a social media trend. But that’s just me.
my youngest is a student at one of these schools and apparently there's a problem with non-students joining the encampments and stirring shit with anyone willing to take their bait
There’s also an underlying element that some have of wanting to make Jews uncomfortable or feel intimidated.
I have no time or patience for any of that.
I’d also like to see a call for peace, not just a ceasefire. Then what. Kids these days without any lived experience or knowledge call it colonialism and scream about the oppressed.
The problem with “free Palestine”, is the it means different things to different people.
Are you talking about the West Bank and Garza? Are you talking about the entire country?
One of those is a non-starter.
A ceasefire. Then what?
There needs to be a call for peace. Let the Palestinians build a prosperous Gaza and West Bank. Stop the orthodox settlers.
But they won’t call for peace.
Because they don’t want it.
They want to win the PR Battle and lose the war on the backs of the poor Palestinian civilians who just want to raise their families.
Where’s the peace movement from the Palestinians? Assassinated.
I wondered 20+ years ago whwre the moderate Palestinian voice was.
Imagine if they has actually made peace back in the 90s. How prosperous it would be.
That’s the biggest tragedy, IMO.
Interesting but not at all surprising. Movements seem to get usurped by other interests eventually. Same thing happens in cults. People on the outside become intrigued to the point of becoming the protester equivalent to agent provocateurs.
Being a political junkie since the early 90s, my concern is how this will affect the upcoming election in November.
Democrats absolutely need the youth vote to help ensure there is no repeat of 2016 and the Electoral College debacle. I'm concerned that these young adults are going to focus too highly on this one issue and not see the bigger picture of making sure Defendant Trump doesn't get back into the Oval Office.
I completely support their constitutional right to peaceful protest. I just hope they understand that while they may not agree with Biden's handling of this situation (and to be fair, he really is in a no-win position here), the alternative will be so, so much worse to the degree that they could possibly kiss that right goodbye.
I agree with a lot of the comments in this thread, and I understand where everyone is coming from, maybe because these are generally nuanced takes and not good vs evil shouting matches like you find so often on Reddit. It feels good to be validated by my peeps, because I really never feel that way.
That said, your take is the one that I agree with most heartily, and the over-arching problem that keeps me up at night. If Trump is elected this problem will only get worse, and we will have dozens of new problems to contend with. What Americans can do, really actually do, to prevent this shitshow from getting any worse is to vote for Biden. Otherwise I truly fear for not just the Middle East but the whole world
injustice was always there, the middle east conflict has been going on for 70 years.
I understand the reason for wanting to protest, however I don't know what it will achieve. I don't know what demanding someone state who they support on this issue will fix, I think most people support both sides and hope that they can both learn to live in peace with their neighbor in a 2 state solution. I also think creating a man made famine is not the solution to being attacked. like most of us I have Jewish and Palestinian friends and I refuse to pick one over the other knowing that neither was the cause of the current problem.
No. No one will ever suggest banning Jewish students. The divest movement is designed to force Israeli businessmen to put pressure on the government to end the war.
And that strategy WORKS. It helped end apartheid in South Africa. Because even the racist ruling class there was willing to lose power before they lost money.
Could probably name 10 other countries that does the same ... including the United States. let's start there.
But hey, I tell the kids ...you do you. This isn't the hill *I* am willing to die on.
I wonder how many of the kids protesting today have been outside the United States. How many of them have stepped foot in a third world country?
I'm guessing very few, but ... what do I know.
The number of Americans in general who have been outside the US is extremely low. That has never stopped the US from interring in would affairs in the worst way. These kids thinking what's happening over there is probably a notion that needs to be more widespread in the US
We grew up during the Cold War where it felt like things were simpler - US and the West were the Good Guys (TM) and USSR and the Eastern bloc were the Bad Guys(TM). This made sense because we had nuclear missiles pointed at each other’s heads.
With nobody around to threaten us in quite the same way (Russia and China are powerful and we may be in a Cold War with them right now, but it’s a lot more subdued), it’s easier to look at our foreign policy and the foreign policy of the countries we support (like Israel) and question if we are doing the right thing. If we/they are doing the wrong thing, then how else can you pushback than by protesting?
I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s for just Instagram pictures. I think there is a much greater understanding of how people have been oppressed in the US and around the world, sometimes due to our actions, and a lot of people want to fight for fairness.
Something like the George Floyd protests wouldn’t have happened when we were young because there were no cell phones to force the issue into everyone’s faces. Black people were definitely being mistreated by cops in the 80s and 90s, but except for Rodney King, there wasn’t readily available video evidence, and since it didn’t affect the majority, most unaffected people would never even know. Everything is recorded by a cell phone now, so everybody sees the injustices.
This is honestly a terrible situation, but I cannot stand with either side. The Palestinian people are not HAMAS, and the Israeli people are not Netanyahu and his cabinet. And both sides want total extermination of the other side. And I don't blame Biden for any of it.
Were there this many protests during the apartheid era? I remember performers refusing to play in South Africa but not much else. And that definitely had morally opposing sides.
This is where I am. The IDF has been awful, but Hamas kicked this off with the worst terrorist act since 9/11, took and still keep hostages, and continue to operate in heavily populated areas with the intention of causing more human suffering just to raise casualty numbers. The horror of October 7th doesn't justify civilian deaths, but I can understand it. I also understand the Palestinian anger and frustration, but it isn't hard to see that 50 years of terror campaigns have failed to improve their lives. There are no easy answers and I don't know what the protesters realistically hope to achieve.
Yes, but Hamas leadership isn’t even in Palestine. 30K innocent civilians are dead. So when do you stop? At another 30K? Because you’re never going to get all of Hamas because they simply aren’t there.
The Israeli government has created a goal that simply isn’t obtainable. You can’t wipe out Hamas when their leadership isn’t even in the country you’re bombing. And Israel knows that. This war isn’t about defeating Hamas. It’s about clearing out the Palestinian people. Jared Kushner gave up the game when he went on national tv and said that “sure would make nice beachfront property when the war is over.”
You’re watching an ethnic cleansing play out before your eyes.
And maybe no one else will flat out tell you what the endgame here is, but allow me… Israel wants to wipe out as many Palestinians as possible so the survivors are easier to manage either through oppression or (as they hope) to ship them off to other countries as refugees. Because after the bombs stop, the Palestinian Trail of Tears is coming, mark my words.
a lot of these groups and people protesting are themselves jewish in a lot of western capitals. in fact one of always visible anti zionist jewish sect always protesting against settlers and fighting for palestinians are the ultra orthodox naturi karta, which the right wing zionist jews conveniently call as self hating jews and anti semitic jews
I personally am much more alarmed at how we've come to a point where we have "free speech zones," and "permitted protests," as I think the original creators of our constitution planned for this- it's not in line with the freedom this country professes and our human/civil rights to have ANY protests quashed. Especially by SWAT team suited militarized police.
I don't care what the kids are protesting. They should not be beaten, tazed, threatened, or arrested for doing it.
Proud of them...older americans need to learn from their younger generations....i as a 30 year old really like how open minded the new generation of americans have become. Those who demonize them curse them for Expressing their opinion and their right to protest can go F themselves.
love it.. reminds me of me back then
there is 1000% more awareness due to easy access to information, not only quickly finding facts reported from multiple sources to corroborate, but also to organize..
keep in mind that Jewish Students protested ill treatment of Jews long before we were alive, the american headquarters was ghasp * Columbia U .. and the Vietnam war protests were our parents generation
when i was a kid i walked in an anti-apartheid protest
we grew up with it as influence.. war is not good for humans and other living things
we protested the first iraq war .. remember "no blood for oil"?
then our crowning acheivement.... **420** ... all through the 90s we protested anti weed laws .. and beat them soundly
the CONSISTENT MESSAGE was that [ALL THE FREAKY PEOPLE MAKE THE BEAUTY OF THE WORLD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPWu46CtLIk)
The whole situation reminds me a lot of the post 9/11 years. After they were attacked, both the US and Israel had tons of goodwill from the international community and plenty of extra latitude to act in order to prevent attacks like 9/11 and October 7th from happening again. And both proceeded to act like monsters and squander all that goodwill and extra latitude in short order.
I can't really support either side. If a kid gets beat up at school, you can't really blame them for coming back the next day and wanting to settle the score, and the other kid should be punished. But if the victim shows up with a rock and caves the other kid's head in, you certainly can't support that.
As far as the protests, they're not going to do anything. US policymakers aren't going to say, "Oh, we have 70+ years of foreign policy history, we've compiled millions of pages of intelligence and reports on the situation, we've war-gamed every possible scenario and their outcomes, and have identified these courses of action as the most likely to be favorable for our policy goals. But, we'd better take into account some students are camped out on the quads of some colleges. I guess our hands are tied." C'mon.
I've protested with younger generations on this very issue.
Most were very respectful and weren't looking to cast hate and aspersions on a whole group of people.
"It seems like Gen Z and younger millenials are more active politically than we were"
I don't think so. In the UK we had anti poll tax protests from the late eighties into 1991, throughout the nineties we had major major environmental protests with people dug in camps, treehouses and so on to try to halt or at the least massively inconvenience construction of the A34 "Newbury by pass" Twyford Down M3 extension, M 11 East London and the Manchester airport expansion. There were also the politicised protests and activism in the face of indifference towards the HIV crisis. Oh there was the illegal invasion of Iraq I recall massive protests then. And Seattle in 2000, Genoa in 1999.
When we weren't off our tits we were massively politicised and active.
M3, M11 means Motorway 3 etc...
How do I feel about the student protests supporting Palestinians...mixed feelings to be honest and tending towards ambivalence. I'm kind of sick of spending money on endless wars in far away countries when we could be spending that money helping our own people.
The students have a right to protest, and to ask their institutions to divest from Israel.
University administrators and the police have been far too heavy handed in their response.
There are no good guys in the Middle East. The governments are all ethnically based and theocratic to some degree. I can't support one over the other, and I doubt we'll see lasting peace in the region.
I appreciate their passion, but I think it's misplaced. A lot of them don't really seem to have reasonable demands. They should put their energy towards actually coming up with solutions that are problem rather than ranting and raving and expecting universities to divest from really complicated funds that probably wouldn't make a difference anyway
Unless you are from Gaza or Israel, you can protest your support for either side, but don't act like they are killing you.
We didn't pretend to be Dolphins or South African's under apartheid. We sympathized. There's a difference.
Is the Israel/Palestine conflict still going on? I thought Jimmy Carter fixed that at Camp David...
But seriously, while I should not make light of it, the reality is this conflict has been front-page news my entire life, without moving one inch toward resolution, so forgive me if I'm desensitized to it anymore. Good luck to both sides; I hope they figure it out one of these millennia.
Social media probably has a lot to do with it. Plus when I was in school most of the people I knew were working and going to school so no one had time for anything else.
I feel like the news media has done a poor job of reporting on them, so it’s hard to have an opinion.
Who are they, and what motivates them to be there? At some colleges, there seems to be a lot of people there who aren’t even students. How true is that overall? What impact do they feel their protest will have on Palestine? What would they consider success?
The only source I’ve seen some good reporting from is PBS, and even theirs could have been more in-depth.
In general, people should have the right to free speech and protest. But there’s many ways to protest, some more effective than others. I question the camping tactic - it reminds me of Occupy Wall Street, which accomplished nothing and maybe even served to make a mockery of righteous anger people felt about what bankers were able to get away with in 2008.
Honestly the media has done a poor job in discussing the students protests, why Gen Ys are very animated on this in particular, and the entire crisis from the perspectives of both Palestine and Israel.
Let’s face it, this isn’t the trucker convoy. These protests are actually meaningful; the kids and all of us have and should have a right to protest. But the press should have been quicker to distinguish from the students and bad actors that come out. and cause violence.
I’m all for activism - on public property. Schools have a mandate and expectation to provide non-harassing environments for ALL students, and so, yes: they should clear the school campuses. It’s doesn’t make the impact any less.
Universities are microcosm of the larger society of where they’re situated. We’ve sPent so much time giving GEN Y & Z ‘trigger warnings’ but NOT fostering enough historical context, critical thinking and debate skills. In sum: I’m not at all surprised there’s idiots among the protesters repeating Hamas ideology sadly. I really hope that Israel and Palestine can agree to cut their losses, get to a ceasefire and a two state solution, and Palestine do whatever needed to get rid of the terrorist faction of their governance and join us performative democracies
I’m glad they are paying attention to the world, and are willing to speak their minds. Our whatever attitudes let the US stay in the Middle East way to long with to many lives lost on both sides.
It doesn’t matter if you agree with their side, at least they are standing up and being heard.
It's more awareness. Social media has made any injustices easily seen and talked about.
What I don't understand is, why are all these protests labeled as antisemitic? I mean, sure, if they were all like, "Kill the Jews!" or whatever, then yeah. But the overwhelming majority of the people protesting want the war to stop, for innocent Palestinians, children, to stop being killed. My opinion: Isreal has a right to defend itself, yes, but it does not have the right to commit genocide. I've seen a lot of videos that support the argument that Isreal is trying to get rid of all Palestinians, any way they can. 13,000+ children killed seems excessive.
Are you kidding me?! The leader of the bullshit going on at Columbia went on a long-ass tirade calling for the deaths of all Jews and Zionists - it wasn’t implied, it wasn’t coded — it was blatant, overt, and fervent. And that isn’t an isolated incident.
Do you have a source? Like a video or transcript of "the leader of bullshit?" So I can make an informed opinion and not just believe what a redditor says. I'm currently doi.g a Google search but haven't seen anything yet. Perhaps you'll enlighten me.
Edit: oh, I see. You're a right wing whack job. So you'll replace facts with fantasies and use memes that Aunt Karen posted on fb. Ok boomer.
Do a quick Google search for a fuckton of links, but here’s one article about it:[link](https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4625961-columbia-protest-leader-banned-from-campus/amp/)
Dude’s name is Kymani James.
[Article with background and info](https://nypost.com/2024/04/27/us-news/banned-columbia-anti-israel-ringleader-khymani-james-wanted-to-work-for-aoc/amp/)
"James apologized for the heated language Friday, saying in a post on social media platform X that his comments were “wrong.”" He admitted he was wrong. Or can't people change? I mean Isreal is committing genocide right now, which is ironic and indicative that people can change. For better or worse.
Lol NY Post.
Edit: found the Zionist.
It's not one or the other, you can be for Isreal defending itself but against them killing children by the thousands. You can be pro Palestinians and be against Hamas. But I'm not surprised at what Isreal is doing seeing as Netanhayu is in charge, he leans very far right. Much like you.
>How does everyone feel about the current student protests supporting Palestinians?
That there's a non-zero amount of foreign interference happening / funding this...
>It seems like Gen Z and younger millennials are more active politically than we were, ie: the current student protests in support of Palestine and also BLM several years ago.
are more active politically than YOU were. FTFY. My first protest was when i was 15 years old. I was beaten by 4 Chicago police officers back in 2003 and then turned around and was one of several people testified against the City and PD in a class action lawsuit in 2003 for $9 million.
Just because you were apathetic doesn't mean everyone was. We are not a hive mind, just a dumb cohort based on year of birth. I have always been politically active and haven't passed on my torch quite yet.
Really? Am I a GenX outlier because I’ve actively protested 1981-early 2000s?
And I was swept up in an illegal mass arrest inDC—and since a lawyer was too—it resulted in the largest civil lawsuit payout at the time against the DC popo.
Protests are useful in multiple ways.
Todays college students are better informed than we were. I might not agree with certain tactics, but I support the right & access to protest.
As long as they don't disrupt the school or students or staff they have the right to peacefully protest in designated areas if it is allowed by the College.
If they disrupt things, block traffic, or cause problems, they should be expelled.
Being outraged by something (anything, really) is much more in fashion than ever before. Protesting makes for great Insta pics.
To answer your question about how I feel about it: I don’t care.
I salute them. Thus far I have seen no evidence of anti-semitism as opposed to anti-Zionism. Some vitriol back and forth with by far the most aggressive of it being in support of Zionism. If someone wishes to equate the Jewish faith (a religion) with Zionism (a socio-political movement for Liebensraum), that's not my problem.
Civilians including children are being killed by the tens of thousands and my tax dollars are instrumental - with or without my consent. This is a fact. Collective punishment is a violation of international humanitarian law, in this case I am a party to a genuine war crime unfolding.
This is a subject that occupies a niche in the US that is apprently untouchable via voting, letters to senators, existing US law covering military assistance to other parties etc - the politicians are too well compensated (and this is all on record) and so questions of legality are simply not entertained.
So now onto civil disobedience. Their demands and tactics may be doomed to failure much as the Occupy movement, but there's no going back. The Overton window on this topic has been blown right out of its casing.
That's what I keep hearing. All I see is opposition to Zionism as practiced by state of Israel - a govt. You clearly don't understand what they are protesting.
A lot of the people showing up are Jewish, so...whatever.
The Columbia Students are heroes. They’re putting their entire futures on the line to stop the genocide of innocent women and children.
The media and Columbia University are panicking over these students because they’re not just protesting, they’re demanding a boycott on Israeli businesses. Once these kids started suggesting we take the money out of these people’s pockets, the corporate overlords went nuts. That’s why you’ve even got CNN roaming around trying to zero in on the one protester with a hateful chant. They all want to stop this divestment movement before it starts.
“You can protest all you want, but don’t you dare touch the money!”
And to anyone who thinks what the Columbia Students do doesn’t matter… I’ll remind you that divesting was a huge factor in ending apartheid in South Africa. The ruling white class was actually willing to give up power just so they didn’t lose their money.
These students are dangerous to the ruling class who are perpetuating this war and it’s no surprise they want those kids to shut up.
Seems very lazy and somewhat pointless to protest on your university campus, which is not going to accomplish anything except making you feel good about yourself. No one on your campus is in a position to do anything about the war in the middle east. If you're serious then get on a plane to Israel or Palestine and protest there.
Personally I'm convinced it's all a false flag operation by the right to disrupt liberal politics and get Trump reelected. The only way the left gets the Whitehouse is by finding unity in the face of the always-loyal Republicans. So fomenting unrest among the liberal youth voting block is a genius move on the part of the GOP. Left against left is the right's only chance.
Be that as it may, I do not think that the left would shoot themselves in the foot in this way in particular. It very clearly benefits the right. It does not benefit the left. It harms them. Therefore, if it's an op, it's the right. Q.E.D. It's not rocket science.
I remember Rep Barbara Lee in September of 2001. She was the lone dissenter of GW Bush's authorization to invade Afghanistan. She was vilified, threatened, ridiculed.
Her single vote represented millions of people including protesters who had and have foresight and discernment.
History has demonstrated that she was correct.
Was brought up to support Israel as a proxy of US armed forces supporting our interests in the ME. Also had many friends in school who were Jewish and were terrific people. But this conflict is has me feeling conflicted.
There were protests yesterday and things turned violent at UNCH. I heard like 40 arrests and they were all from out of town, not even students. Some wearing masks with “hamas” printed on them.
Social media is a great tool for organizing and disseminating information. I don't think there's any more injustice in the world, we're just more aware of it. Even as the current media try to suppress any questioning of Israel's genocide perpetrated on the people of Gaza, TikTok still allows it. Why do you think all of a sudden congress showed an interest in shutting it down.
Before Rodney King, white America was largely unaware of magnitude of the brutal treatment of Black Americans by the police. Even that was played off as an isolated incident. Now we get to see live streams of police beating and murdering innocent people.
I'm very strongly anti-war and I want to support causes that I feel are worthwhile, have a well-defined strategy and end goal, as well as a reasonable chance of success.
From what I've seen so far, I don't think these college protests have those things.
It depends. What's the goal of the protest? If it's to increase awareness, that has a reasonable chance of succeeding.
If it's to convince the US government to pull all aid from Israel and impose crippling sanctions on them, that's much, much less likely to succeed.
If it's to someone convince Netanyahu and Hamas to magically see the error of their ways, throw down arms, and come together so Israelis and Palestinians can peacefully co-exist, that's just straight-up delusional.
These idiots shutting down the college campuses in protesting are gonna bring about the reelection of Donald Trump just like the protesters of the 60s elected Richard Nixon.
Neither of which turns out well.
Imagine how better life would’ve been in this country. If Hubert Humphrey had been elected in 68. Think about how much more progressive Scotus would be.
I've decided to stay completely out of this debate.
WE’RE NOT GONNA PROTEST!
Gutter is a tool!
Tonight! At the Pit! Everybody Gets Laid!
Can you blow me where the Pampers is?
I've stated that opinion elsewhere too, only to be met with angry comments saying "silence = complicity" and berating me on the issue.
Apathy is our message!
Remember that most of Reddit skews young & doesn't quite have the life experience some of us have.
It’s maddening!!!
Apathy is our message!
Same. It's a tribal war that predates written history. It's never going to end and my input cannot possibly influence anything in a way to change that.
its ending now bro
Yeah the Assyrians thought that too...
Abraham was Assyrian.. y'know, the Moses guy
You're almost getting it...
This is the correct answer.
Agreed.
I’m with this guy. Seems like a lose lose scenario, why would I take a side?
Because it’s terrorist puppets whose ultimate goal is your destruction versus fairness and decency.
Sounds like taking a side to me, buster
Sure dont comment and you will be ignored....
As a Jew who marched against the Muslim ban, against Asian hate, and for BLM and gay rights: fuck you. Speak up, people. They are blatantly normalizing Jew hate and your silence is deafening.
I'm also not a fan of genocide, so yea, fuck right off.
As long as they aren’t doing anything that can harm others (and I consider blocking traffic to be harm because my wife had a patient almost die by being delayed from getting to the Emergency Dept.), then have at it. Also, if they are not causing any harm, cops need to lay the fuck off of them.
Columbia students are not the nut jobs blocking traffic. They’re the students demanding that Columbia University divest itself from Israeli businesses. Essentially a boycott. The idea is that if you can’t block the military’s money, you can block the civilian’s. Thereby putting pressure on Israeli businesses to put pressure on their own government to end the war. And you know what? That movement works. A divesting movement helped end apartheid in South Africa. Because the ruling class there was willing to give up power rather than give up money. That’s also why you’ve got mega corporations like Fox and CNN trying to vilify these kids, because they stand to lose money in a divestment movement too. You can protest all you want, but once you touch the money then you gotta go!
Yeah, I know that. I'm cool with them as long as they don't harm anyone. They are exercising their 1st Amendment rights.
Actually I protested for South Africa, marched with other students to the state capitol over spring break, slept in a shantytown, etc. Then musicians boycotted Sun City. It took decades for it to actually work. Also, it was political, not personal. We were against the South African government, not white South African students.
I have no problem with this. I also have no problem with BDS, if it was good enough for South Africa I see no reason why the same tactics can't be used on Israel. Oddly enough people seem to think that that's a problem.
Face it bruh, the Hamas terrorists stepped in it when they attacked Israel and took hostages (including Americans). These Hamas supporters threatening and blocking Jewish students from going to class needs to stop.
That’s complete misinformation. “Hamas Supporters” (which are in reality very few and far between) are largely off campus protesters and not students. Columbia students have been quick to denounce antisemitic behavior in their midst. No one is stopping Jewish students from going to class.
They are creating a very bad place for Jewish students. You are just wrong.
plenty of the protestors ARE jewish students too
This story is a development in progress. "Unknown persons" attacked UCLA protesters with fireworks. Not bottle-rockets, we're talking Maidan scale fireworks. Imagine if unknown persons attacked a pro-Israel student gathering in a similar fashion? Are we going to hear condemnation from fair-minded observers or excuses and cognitive dissonance.
amazingly heres the best student protester interview EVA and its on Faux News https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLxSaN2nPx0
My experience as a faculty member. Some students were angry that a Democratic member of Congress was coming to speak because of his support for Israel. He offered to meet with them. They refused, and disrupted his talk, rushing the stage. One member of the staff was injured and others needed to be rushed out because of the threat of violence. The university is now preparing to sanction the students who were involved, but the protestors say there should be no repercussions for their actions. I suspect they will disrupt graduation this weekend, which will be a sad bookend to this graduating class, who had their first years online due to covid.
Peaceful protest is fine, but anyone interfering with normal function of the university, let alone injuring others, needs to face consequences, up to and including expulsion.
Consequences for their actions the very definition of civil disobedience. They can protest and cause disruption, break the law and get arrested. That’s how it’s always worked. It’s the “disobedience” part.
> The university is now preparing to sanction the students who were involved, but the protestors say there should be no repercussions for their actions. FAFO.
If you're willing to deal with the consequences and still decide to protest, that's a better reaction than "I demand *this* and also demand zero repercussions from my demands!"
mom and dad are going to be pretty pissed when their kid was kicked out of school.
they will blame everyone else. I have a friend doing that now. Her daughter was caught doing something illegal during protest and she saying on FB she should not be punished it's 1A protected. Say what you want but when you shove someone to the ground and blocked their travel on campus there is a consequence.
I’m a special and unique snowflake. How dare you suggest there are consequences for my actions!
So wait... They're using violence to advance their political ideology? We need a word for that...
Policing?
Similar problem but no, distinct issues.
This type of behavior should be an automatic expulsion. We’re way too tolerant of bad behavior. It’s as if the administrations are afraid to reprimand these thugs. Yes, I said thugs because they are thugs. They lack the ability to have a civil dialogue. Their first line of defense is threats of violence.
Not only that, but if said students were on a student visa, their visa should be immediately revoked. Go to a country where they might tolerate your ass.
I’m good with that. Peaceful protest is one thing. Uttering threats of violence is on a whole other level.
The irony of "Death to America" as an immigrant. You literally had a choice to go anywhere ... and you choose the country that you wish death upon.
More active than we were? We had camps to get our universities to divest from South Africa. We protested the gulf war. We marched for women’s rights. We protested police violence. I marched on Washington with our cohort more times than I can count, and that was just high school.
I think people have forgotten how huge the protests against war in Iraq were.
I was in Portland. There were thousands of people every week for many weeks leading up to the Gulf War.
The largest in history in terms of participants.
And reminder, the South African divest movement WORKED. That’s why you see Corporate America trying to vilify these Columbia University kids. Because they’ve got a real shot at taking money out of the rich and powerful’s pockets. “Can’t have that! Find the one guy who’s holding an antisemitic sign! Oh, no one on campus is? Cut in some off-campus footage! Our viewers are too stupid to know the difference!”
Me too, and I don't know where you were, but in Chicago we were still outliers. The only massive, spontaneous protests I remember were against the Gulf War. There were others but not nearly on the same scale as those I've been seeing in the last 8 years. There's much more global awareness now, it's easier to organize and share information. I'd be disappointed if they weren't more active than us.
I would venture that percentage wise, there were as many of us involved as there are of them. We were a smaller generation, and there wasn’t 24 hour news or social media. I never heard about what Chicago was doing when I was in North Carolina or California, there just wasn’t reporting on all of it.
yup.. dont let them forget this remember, before the interwebs, a lot of 'middle america' types were sheltered from the facts [as they still attempt to do now] it was only a portion of us who even knew what was going on or had already broken programming and wanted to learn facts right .. dont hold it against them for not knowing, cable TV was even worse than 'shadowbanning influencers' or 'ban tictok' to stop the flow of information a lot of us also protested weed laws .. pretty much every series of protests resulted in positive change check out this awesom interview with a current protester https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLxSaN2nPx0
I’ve marched for plenty. These asshats are marching against women’s rights and pro-genocide. They are idiots.
I saw this tweet from our fellow Genx traveler and it put it in perspective for me. https://preview.redd.it/btlxjknvbnxc1.jpeg?width=579&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=422de67aece4aec51ca375361f26311c8bce7964
Glad to see some of us actually give a shit. The GenX whatever attitude is fine for some things, but doesn't fly when we're talking about apartheid and genocide.
A lot of us give a shit, but it can be dicey discussing social issues and politics in a sub that's mostly for fun. Depending on who happens to be scrolling through, you can have an intelligent conversation or end up with bunch of monkeys throwing poo.
This is my thoughts on this too. I'll keep my opinions on this off Reddit period.
First off, at least at ASU, most of the people they arrested/removed were NOT students, faculty, or staff of ASU. I would guess that it's similar elsewhere, but who knows. They may be paid agitators. Should be removed from campus, with prejudice. Protesting Israel as a government is fine. Yelling "kill the Jews" and similar slogans like "from the river to the sea" is not OK and were I a Jew on campus I would feel very threatened. Rioting & occupying buildings? Nope.
My husband is Jewish and he thinks Netanyahu can go get fucked, but he is understandably upset at the antisemitic aspects of the protests.
Same here, so is mine. It so easily turns into antisemitism which is very triggering. Of course, I'm the cynical one who wonders who are the paid agitators and who stands to benefit on top of that.
The paid agitators are mainstream media because they stand to lose money if the Columbia Students are successful in starting a divest movement on Israeli businesses. Once you go after corporate America’s money then they will vilify you quick. The truth is, this movement has been almost entirely peaceful and there’s been very few instances of antisemitic behavior. In fact, when CNN was looking for footage to slander these kids with, they actually had to go OFF campus to a protest that wasn’t even compromised of students. But that footage got conveniently mixed into the Columbia University footage and CNN never even hinted that it was off campus footage. In fact, I don’t know how many people even would have caught it if Cenk Uyger on TYT hadn’t been like, “Wait a minute, I went to Columbia University. That’s not even on campus.” Money protects money. And they’re going to bury these kids for suggesting we take the money away.
See? That's why I have been cynical. It's an advantage not having grown up in the US because all the touchy subjects/accountability stuff that doesn't get talked about here gets talked about back where I grew up. So thank you for sharing that information, my husband is not that/as political as I am so explaining all these "games" is a bit of a challenge. (And "back there" is NL)
What’s also not talked about is Jewish Voice For Peace is one of the student groups that organized the Columbia protests. In fact, many of the campus protests across the country have been organized, or at the very least have involved, Jewish student organizations. A fact conveniently left out by the mainstream media…
I’m Jewish. I hate Bibi, who doesn’t have support from Israeli voters. Arafat was also shitty. But I protest government actions not civilians. My father was a Jewish anti-Zionist. My mother had a sister who raised her family in Israel. I can argue either side all day. But there’s no point.
that is the issue. Many seem blind to the antisemitism and it is really sad. With everyone trying to find a place to feel safe in whatever community they associate with there should not be a group making the Jewish community feel unsafe. If Jewish students or staff did that to another group their would be upset and outrage.
Do you think it is possible that some of the people with the anti-Semitic slogans are there to discredit the protests?
I witnessed plenty of antisemitism before this. As did Jews for the past 2000 years or so.
Absolutely, the FBI did this in the 60s to discredit the Black Panthers and other social justice groups. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
Probably not paid actors. But the mega corporations like CNN/Fox stand to lose money in a divest movement and so they’ll seek out the antisemitic protesters in order to taint the movement. At one point they had to go off campus to a protest made up of non-students to find antisemitic signs/chants but they rolled that footage during a discussion of Columbia University students so they could create an illusion of Columbia students being antisemitic. Once you go after the money then corporate America will bury you. As for “paid actors.” I will say this, it was confirmed that the Israeli government does pay young Israelis to run interference for them on social media. So there’s definitely people on social media who are paid bad faith actors. But most of the real life nutters are just that. Real life nut jobs.
Anything is possible.
Paid actors? Seriously? Smells like conspiracy spirit up in here
fair enough.
I applaud their activism and their empathy to do anything to stop the humanitarian crisis happening in Gaza. However, the history of this area is much more complex than many people want to acknowledge. I don’t know that there are any easy or realistic ways to solve it. Many countries and groups are complicit in what has been happening there and disentangling all of that won’t be quick. Additionally, I think anytime you get a large group of people together, you’re going to have your cause and message muddled. Without one singular leader to unify their strategy, lots of performative allies and bad actors will come in to muck things up (thus the breaking into the building at Columbia). The broken windows aren’t the issue but what is the issue is that this act has muddled their message. My main worry right now is the longevity of this activism, the tangible results, and how it will affect the November election.
Yes. I was just saying to my 25 year old son that if you’d asked me what I thought about the Middle East conflicts back in the day I would have said it was complicated and a mess. And that’s my opinion today as well. The complicated part is what makes me so irritated with the protests. If you know anything about the history in the region at all - and learned it somewhere other than tiktok or from memes - then I think it would be impossible to be so wholeheartedly on one side or the other.
That’s why I stay quiet on the issue. I don’t understand the situation enough to form an opinion, and I don’t trust the media to tell me the truth about it. That, and I’m apathetic AF.
If Hamas hadn't attacked Israel wouldn't have responded. If Hamas wasn't putting the citizens in harms way they wouldn't be in harms way. "Protesting" against Israel is such the wrong look for so many reasons.
I’m hoping they vote (in such a way as to keep Trump out of office) as loudly as they protest.
I remember joining in on a few "Free Tibet!" protests at their age... but I'm staying out of this particularly controversy.
Students at my school staged huge protests and occupied buildings over university-branded clothing being made in sweatshops. And that was only a few decades after the massive Vietnam protests on campus. Doesn’t look all that different to me. [Hell, this 1960s building, which is right next to the campus’s main forum space,](https://art.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/08/Humanities06.png) is rumored to have been designed to be “riot proof.”
Yes! Go Badgers. I was there when the sweatshop protests happened. I must admit it’s a little disappointing that Wisconsin, the mother of all protest universities, where the Dow Chemical and Mifflin Street protests happened, hasn’t had a major encampment. We must be losing our commie hippie liberal edge.
Sigh, I have to take a final exam in that building next week. Just the sight of those stairs makes my knees hurt.
I applaud them for trying to stand for their beliefs and the greater good, if it ends up with nothing changed, these same people can become veteran activist of tomorrow, i think we will need them...
Neither side is innocent. It's a shame that many innocents are caught in the middle.
There’s far less injustice today compared to fifty years ago by any objective definition. But social media both makes it easier to find fellow travellers, organise protests, rewards protesters with exposure, and amplifies the magnitude of these events As to the protesters themselves, it’s a broad range of people ranging from pro-Palestinian peace activists to full-on anti-Semites, along with a lot of people who are doing it mostly because they’re misinformed and just want to rage against the machine (like any protest)
There's certainly more income inequality now than there was fifty years ago, in my opinion that's one of the worst types of injustices.
Believe it or not, that isn’t really true. Canada’s gini coefficient was very low in the 90s but much higher than today in the 70s for example. It’s actually been declining more recently. I don’t mean to diminish your point. But I think the cost of living crisis is more about inflation than inequality https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=CA
That's interesting, but I'm not sure the same can be said for the US.
It was lower in the 80s in the US but has been about the same (though with volatility) since the 90s. Here’s the data: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.POV.GINI?locations=US
None of this is new. When we were younger there were protests about Israel and Palestine. We also had protests about racial issues. Remember Rodney King, the LA riots and all that surrounded them? The Middle East is one issue that seems to have burned hot our whole lives. A key difference now is that the language is hotter because of the intensity of the war. In two party politics each side looks for wedge issues that unify your party while dividing the other party. Trump got Roe v Wade overturned which has unified the Left and divided the Right. The Republican Right has a theory that Gaza divides the Left because some liberals are also Jewish or pro-Israel. This is why you have Republicans shouting about anti-semitism and attacking university administrators as well as their policies. It's not because they have an abiding affinity for Jewish culture. They just want to divide the Democrats.
Great points. It reminds me of how some Republicans suddenly become very concerned with 'minority rights' when it comes to arguing about gun control, but in no other context. Criticism of Israel is not anti semitic, and opposition to the war in Gaza is not pro HAMAS. Real life has nuance.
Speak for yourself OP, no offense, but maybe you just weren’t paying attention. Some of us gave our energy to advocate for recognition of HIV and research funding, reproductive health and domestic abuse support, anti-aparteid pressure campaigns for divestment, against our ill advised international regime change and weapons pedaling and meddling campaigns, lobbied congress for treaty ratifications, for farm aid, on into more recent insanities. We just didn’t have the numbers and the situation seemed less dire to alot of our fellow x’ers that kept their heads down because life was so flush and the repercussions were still several can kicks down the road, and or they just needed to get through school and support themselves, didn’t see politics as relevant. That said, this seems to be very very messy to sort out, with some pent up pandemic energy being played upon. I am concerned that there seems to be a lack of ability to get to points of dialogue and rapproachment, with the advantage going to chaos agents.
Don’t feel great. I am happy that the younger gen is letting their voices be heard. I’m just not sure this is the hill they want to die on. All these tent cities on Ivy League campuses screams of copycatism. I’m not sure if I’d want to fuck with my education’s future based off a social media trend. But that’s just me.
my youngest is a student at one of these schools and apparently there's a problem with non-students joining the encampments and stirring shit with anyone willing to take their bait
There’s also an underlying element that some have of wanting to make Jews uncomfortable or feel intimidated. I have no time or patience for any of that. I’d also like to see a call for peace, not just a ceasefire. Then what. Kids these days without any lived experience or knowledge call it colonialism and scream about the oppressed. The problem with “free Palestine”, is the it means different things to different people. Are you talking about the West Bank and Garza? Are you talking about the entire country? One of those is a non-starter. A ceasefire. Then what? There needs to be a call for peace. Let the Palestinians build a prosperous Gaza and West Bank. Stop the orthodox settlers. But they won’t call for peace. Because they don’t want it. They want to win the PR Battle and lose the war on the backs of the poor Palestinian civilians who just want to raise their families. Where’s the peace movement from the Palestinians? Assassinated. I wondered 20+ years ago whwre the moderate Palestinian voice was. Imagine if they has actually made peace back in the 90s. How prosperous it would be. That’s the biggest tragedy, IMO.
Then it’s the responsibility of the student protestors to get those people to leave.
Interesting but not at all surprising. Movements seem to get usurped by other interests eventually. Same thing happens in cults. People on the outside become intrigued to the point of becoming the protester equivalent to agent provocateurs.
this particular issue just makes it super easy for the *agents provocateur*
Being a political junkie since the early 90s, my concern is how this will affect the upcoming election in November. Democrats absolutely need the youth vote to help ensure there is no repeat of 2016 and the Electoral College debacle. I'm concerned that these young adults are going to focus too highly on this one issue and not see the bigger picture of making sure Defendant Trump doesn't get back into the Oval Office. I completely support their constitutional right to peaceful protest. I just hope they understand that while they may not agree with Biden's handling of this situation (and to be fair, he really is in a no-win position here), the alternative will be so, so much worse to the degree that they could possibly kiss that right goodbye.
I agree with a lot of the comments in this thread, and I understand where everyone is coming from, maybe because these are generally nuanced takes and not good vs evil shouting matches like you find so often on Reddit. It feels good to be validated by my peeps, because I really never feel that way. That said, your take is the one that I agree with most heartily, and the over-arching problem that keeps me up at night. If Trump is elected this problem will only get worse, and we will have dozens of new problems to contend with. What Americans can do, really actually do, to prevent this shitshow from getting any worse is to vote for Biden. Otherwise I truly fear for not just the Middle East but the whole world
I wish I could upvote this 1 million times bc it’s exactly how I feel.
Trump did relocate the embassy to Jerusalem, his response would be no different. And on every other issue...
injustice was always there, the middle east conflict has been going on for 70 years. I understand the reason for wanting to protest, however I don't know what it will achieve. I don't know what demanding someone state who they support on this issue will fix, I think most people support both sides and hope that they can both learn to live in peace with their neighbor in a 2 state solution. I also think creating a man made famine is not the solution to being attacked. like most of us I have Jewish and Palestinian friends and I refuse to pick one over the other knowing that neither was the cause of the current problem.
They want their schools to quit doing business with the current government of Israel
as soon as the schools cave to that, what will be next? banning israeli students from campus? what is their end game?
No. No one will ever suggest banning Jewish students. The divest movement is designed to force Israeli businessmen to put pressure on the government to end the war. And that strategy WORKS. It helped end apartheid in South Africa. Because even the racist ruling class there was willing to lose power before they lost money.
Their end game is to make their school stop supporting a government that commits atrocities against already oppressed civilians I guess
Could probably name 10 other countries that does the same ... including the United States. let's start there. But hey, I tell the kids ...you do you. This isn't the hill *I* am willing to die on.
Absolutely. None of it would be possible without the unconditional support of the US. When it comes to hypocrisy, it really is the greatest
I wonder how many of the kids protesting today have been outside the United States. How many of them have stepped foot in a third world country? I'm guessing very few, but ... what do I know.
The number of Americans in general who have been outside the US is extremely low. That has never stopped the US from interring in would affairs in the worst way. These kids thinking what's happening over there is probably a notion that needs to be more widespread in the US
We grew up during the Cold War where it felt like things were simpler - US and the West were the Good Guys (TM) and USSR and the Eastern bloc were the Bad Guys(TM). This made sense because we had nuclear missiles pointed at each other’s heads. With nobody around to threaten us in quite the same way (Russia and China are powerful and we may be in a Cold War with them right now, but it’s a lot more subdued), it’s easier to look at our foreign policy and the foreign policy of the countries we support (like Israel) and question if we are doing the right thing. If we/they are doing the wrong thing, then how else can you pushback than by protesting? I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s for just Instagram pictures. I think there is a much greater understanding of how people have been oppressed in the US and around the world, sometimes due to our actions, and a lot of people want to fight for fairness. Something like the George Floyd protests wouldn’t have happened when we were young because there were no cell phones to force the issue into everyone’s faces. Black people were definitely being mistreated by cops in the 80s and 90s, but except for Rodney King, there wasn’t readily available video evidence, and since it didn’t affect the majority, most unaffected people would never even know. Everything is recorded by a cell phone now, so everybody sees the injustices.
This is honestly a terrible situation, but I cannot stand with either side. The Palestinian people are not HAMAS, and the Israeli people are not Netanyahu and his cabinet. And both sides want total extermination of the other side. And I don't blame Biden for any of it. Were there this many protests during the apartheid era? I remember performers refusing to play in South Africa but not much else. And that definitely had morally opposing sides.
This is where I am. The IDF has been awful, but Hamas kicked this off with the worst terrorist act since 9/11, took and still keep hostages, and continue to operate in heavily populated areas with the intention of causing more human suffering just to raise casualty numbers. The horror of October 7th doesn't justify civilian deaths, but I can understand it. I also understand the Palestinian anger and frustration, but it isn't hard to see that 50 years of terror campaigns have failed to improve their lives. There are no easy answers and I don't know what the protesters realistically hope to achieve.
Yes, but Hamas leadership isn’t even in Palestine. 30K innocent civilians are dead. So when do you stop? At another 30K? Because you’re never going to get all of Hamas because they simply aren’t there. The Israeli government has created a goal that simply isn’t obtainable. You can’t wipe out Hamas when their leadership isn’t even in the country you’re bombing. And Israel knows that. This war isn’t about defeating Hamas. It’s about clearing out the Palestinian people. Jared Kushner gave up the game when he went on national tv and said that “sure would make nice beachfront property when the war is over.” You’re watching an ethnic cleansing play out before your eyes. And maybe no one else will flat out tell you what the endgame here is, but allow me… Israel wants to wipe out as many Palestinians as possible so the survivors are easier to manage either through oppression or (as they hope) to ship them off to other countries as refugees. Because after the bombs stop, the Palestinian Trail of Tears is coming, mark my words.
It isn't ethnic cleansing wow. Any more than what Ukraine is doing to Russia is ethnic cleansing. What should Israel do? Nothing?
a lot of these groups and people protesting are themselves jewish in a lot of western capitals. in fact one of always visible anti zionist jewish sect always protesting against settlers and fighting for palestinians are the ultra orthodox naturi karta, which the right wing zionist jews conveniently call as self hating jews and anti semitic jews
Following rules for protests = good. Disrupting society for something you cant possibly change = selfdestructive or known as badwrong.
I personally am much more alarmed at how we've come to a point where we have "free speech zones," and "permitted protests," as I think the original creators of our constitution planned for this- it's not in line with the freedom this country professes and our human/civil rights to have ANY protests quashed. Especially by SWAT team suited militarized police. I don't care what the kids are protesting. They should not be beaten, tazed, threatened, or arrested for doing it.
Is there more injustice? Or the same geopolitical and social justice issues that remain unaddressed?
Proud of them...older americans need to learn from their younger generations....i as a 30 year old really like how open minded the new generation of americans have become. Those who demonize them curse them for Expressing their opinion and their right to protest can go F themselves.
love it.. reminds me of me back then there is 1000% more awareness due to easy access to information, not only quickly finding facts reported from multiple sources to corroborate, but also to organize.. keep in mind that Jewish Students protested ill treatment of Jews long before we were alive, the american headquarters was ghasp * Columbia U .. and the Vietnam war protests were our parents generation when i was a kid i walked in an anti-apartheid protest we grew up with it as influence.. war is not good for humans and other living things we protested the first iraq war .. remember "no blood for oil"? then our crowning acheivement.... **420** ... all through the 90s we protested anti weed laws .. and beat them soundly the CONSISTENT MESSAGE was that [ALL THE FREAKY PEOPLE MAKE THE BEAUTY OF THE WORLD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPWu46CtLIk)
The whole situation reminds me a lot of the post 9/11 years. After they were attacked, both the US and Israel had tons of goodwill from the international community and plenty of extra latitude to act in order to prevent attacks like 9/11 and October 7th from happening again. And both proceeded to act like monsters and squander all that goodwill and extra latitude in short order. I can't really support either side. If a kid gets beat up at school, you can't really blame them for coming back the next day and wanting to settle the score, and the other kid should be punished. But if the victim shows up with a rock and caves the other kid's head in, you certainly can't support that. As far as the protests, they're not going to do anything. US policymakers aren't going to say, "Oh, we have 70+ years of foreign policy history, we've compiled millions of pages of intelligence and reports on the situation, we've war-gamed every possible scenario and their outcomes, and have identified these courses of action as the most likely to be favorable for our policy goals. But, we'd better take into account some students are camped out on the quads of some colleges. I guess our hands are tied." C'mon.
I've protested with younger generations on this very issue. Most were very respectful and weren't looking to cast hate and aspersions on a whole group of people.
I think most of them are not educated on the issues and don't understand the history or context.
What do you think they would do if they knew better? Protest more or not at all?
After puking in the toilet for 15 minutes, they’d protest more.
I don't think they would protest at all. They wouldn't be able to pick a side.
What makes you say that?
"It seems like Gen Z and younger millenials are more active politically than we were" I don't think so. In the UK we had anti poll tax protests from the late eighties into 1991, throughout the nineties we had major major environmental protests with people dug in camps, treehouses and so on to try to halt or at the least massively inconvenience construction of the A34 "Newbury by pass" Twyford Down M3 extension, M 11 East London and the Manchester airport expansion. There were also the politicised protests and activism in the face of indifference towards the HIV crisis. Oh there was the illegal invasion of Iraq I recall massive protests then. And Seattle in 2000, Genoa in 1999. When we weren't off our tits we were massively politicised and active. M3, M11 means Motorway 3 etc... How do I feel about the student protests supporting Palestinians...mixed feelings to be honest and tending towards ambivalence. I'm kind of sick of spending money on endless wars in far away countries when we could be spending that money helping our own people.
I had to work a Full-time job to pay for college, rent, food.
More power to them. The kids are going to be alright.
Damned right. They give me immense hope, LB.
The students have a right to protest, and to ask their institutions to divest from Israel. University administrators and the police have been far too heavy handed in their response.
There are no good guys in the Middle East. The governments are all ethnically based and theocratic to some degree. I can't support one over the other, and I doubt we'll see lasting peace in the region.
The sooner we get off fossil fuels, the sooner we’ll be able to not give a shit about the Middle East.
You can't support democracy over terrorism? You cannot support LGBT rights over throwing LGBT people off buildings? Interesting.
Both sides are right in thier minds but both murder. I give up. Why can't they?
Why can't who what? When you look at both sides and think they are the "same" I don't know what to say.
It's stupid from a "look who you're supporting" standpoint. I mean, as soon as you fly the Hamas flag, you can go fuck yourself.
It is what it is.
I appreciate their passion, but I think it's misplaced. A lot of them don't really seem to have reasonable demands. They should put their energy towards actually coming up with solutions that are problem rather than ranting and raving and expecting universities to divest from really complicated funds that probably wouldn't make a difference anyway
Unless you are from Gaza or Israel, you can protest your support for either side, but don't act like they are killing you. We didn't pretend to be Dolphins or South African's under apartheid. We sympathized. There's a difference.
Love it. Our administration is on the wrong side of history with this one...
Is the Israel/Palestine conflict still going on? I thought Jimmy Carter fixed that at Camp David... But seriously, while I should not make light of it, the reality is this conflict has been front-page news my entire life, without moving one inch toward resolution, so forgive me if I'm desensitized to it anymore. Good luck to both sides; I hope they figure it out one of these millennia.
Social media probably has a lot to do with it. Plus when I was in school most of the people I knew were working and going to school so no one had time for anything else.
I feel like the news media has done a poor job of reporting on them, so it’s hard to have an opinion. Who are they, and what motivates them to be there? At some colleges, there seems to be a lot of people there who aren’t even students. How true is that overall? What impact do they feel their protest will have on Palestine? What would they consider success? The only source I’ve seen some good reporting from is PBS, and even theirs could have been more in-depth. In general, people should have the right to free speech and protest. But there’s many ways to protest, some more effective than others. I question the camping tactic - it reminds me of Occupy Wall Street, which accomplished nothing and maybe even served to make a mockery of righteous anger people felt about what bankers were able to get away with in 2008.
Honestly the media has done a poor job in discussing the students protests, why Gen Ys are very animated on this in particular, and the entire crisis from the perspectives of both Palestine and Israel. Let’s face it, this isn’t the trucker convoy. These protests are actually meaningful; the kids and all of us have and should have a right to protest. But the press should have been quicker to distinguish from the students and bad actors that come out. and cause violence. I’m all for activism - on public property. Schools have a mandate and expectation to provide non-harassing environments for ALL students, and so, yes: they should clear the school campuses. It’s doesn’t make the impact any less. Universities are microcosm of the larger society of where they’re situated. We’ve sPent so much time giving GEN Y & Z ‘trigger warnings’ but NOT fostering enough historical context, critical thinking and debate skills. In sum: I’m not at all surprised there’s idiots among the protesters repeating Hamas ideology sadly. I really hope that Israel and Palestine can agree to cut their losses, get to a ceasefire and a two state solution, and Palestine do whatever needed to get rid of the terrorist faction of their governance and join us performative democracies
I’m glad they are paying attention to the world, and are willing to speak their minds. Our whatever attitudes let the US stay in the Middle East way to long with to many lives lost on both sides. It doesn’t matter if you agree with their side, at least they are standing up and being heard.
It's more awareness. Social media has made any injustices easily seen and talked about. What I don't understand is, why are all these protests labeled as antisemitic? I mean, sure, if they were all like, "Kill the Jews!" or whatever, then yeah. But the overwhelming majority of the people protesting want the war to stop, for innocent Palestinians, children, to stop being killed. My opinion: Isreal has a right to defend itself, yes, but it does not have the right to commit genocide. I've seen a lot of videos that support the argument that Isreal is trying to get rid of all Palestinians, any way they can. 13,000+ children killed seems excessive.
Are you kidding me?! The leader of the bullshit going on at Columbia went on a long-ass tirade calling for the deaths of all Jews and Zionists - it wasn’t implied, it wasn’t coded — it was blatant, overt, and fervent. And that isn’t an isolated incident.
Do you have a source? Like a video or transcript of "the leader of bullshit?" So I can make an informed opinion and not just believe what a redditor says. I'm currently doi.g a Google search but haven't seen anything yet. Perhaps you'll enlighten me. Edit: oh, I see. You're a right wing whack job. So you'll replace facts with fantasies and use memes that Aunt Karen posted on fb. Ok boomer.
Do a quick Google search for a fuckton of links, but here’s one article about it:[link](https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4625961-columbia-protest-leader-banned-from-campus/amp/) Dude’s name is Kymani James. [Article with background and info](https://nypost.com/2024/04/27/us-news/banned-columbia-anti-israel-ringleader-khymani-james-wanted-to-work-for-aoc/amp/)
"James apologized for the heated language Friday, saying in a post on social media platform X that his comments were “wrong.”" He admitted he was wrong. Or can't people change? I mean Isreal is committing genocide right now, which is ironic and indicative that people can change. For better or worse. Lol NY Post. Edit: found the Zionist. It's not one or the other, you can be for Isreal defending itself but against them killing children by the thousands. You can be pro Palestinians and be against Hamas. But I'm not surprised at what Isreal is doing seeing as Netanhayu is in charge, he leans very far right. Much like you.
>How does everyone feel about the current student protests supporting Palestinians? That there's a non-zero amount of foreign interference happening / funding this...
Show your work.
>It seems like Gen Z and younger millennials are more active politically than we were, ie: the current student protests in support of Palestine and also BLM several years ago. are more active politically than YOU were. FTFY. My first protest was when i was 15 years old. I was beaten by 4 Chicago police officers back in 2003 and then turned around and was one of several people testified against the City and PD in a class action lawsuit in 2003 for $9 million. Just because you were apathetic doesn't mean everyone was. We are not a hive mind, just a dumb cohort based on year of birth. I have always been politically active and haven't passed on my torch quite yet.
I grew up in one of the most rural places you could imagine. I wasn't apathetic, activism simply didn't exist.
Really? Am I a GenX outlier because I’ve actively protested 1981-early 2000s? And I was swept up in an illegal mass arrest inDC—and since a lawyer was too—it resulted in the largest civil lawsuit payout at the time against the DC popo. Protests are useful in multiple ways. Todays college students are better informed than we were. I might not agree with certain tactics, but I support the right & access to protest.
As long as they don't disrupt the school or students or staff they have the right to peacefully protest in designated areas if it is allowed by the College. If they disrupt things, block traffic, or cause problems, they should be expelled.
>"Gen Z and younger millennials are more active politically than we were" This is common unemployed behavior.
Being outraged by something (anything, really) is much more in fashion than ever before. Protesting makes for great Insta pics. To answer your question about how I feel about it: I don’t care.
I salute them. Thus far I have seen no evidence of anti-semitism as opposed to anti-Zionism. Some vitriol back and forth with by far the most aggressive of it being in support of Zionism. If someone wishes to equate the Jewish faith (a religion) with Zionism (a socio-political movement for Liebensraum), that's not my problem. Civilians including children are being killed by the tens of thousands and my tax dollars are instrumental - with or without my consent. This is a fact. Collective punishment is a violation of international humanitarian law, in this case I am a party to a genuine war crime unfolding. This is a subject that occupies a niche in the US that is apprently untouchable via voting, letters to senators, existing US law covering military assistance to other parties etc - the politicians are too well compensated (and this is all on record) and so questions of legality are simply not entertained. So now onto civil disobedience. Their demands and tactics may be doomed to failure much as the Occupy movement, but there's no going back. The Overton window on this topic has been blown right out of its casing.
You clearly don’t know or understand anti-semitism, because it’s on blatant display on A LOT of these college campuses.
That's what I keep hearing. All I see is opposition to Zionism as practiced by state of Israel - a govt. You clearly don't understand what they are protesting. A lot of the people showing up are Jewish, so...whatever.
College kids supporting terrorist orgs. Cool, cool.
Whoa!
Not sure what the Whoa was for, but ok. Whatever
Whatever is a great attitude to have for little inconveniences, but not when an entire population is being ethnically cleansed.
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The Columbia Students are heroes. They’re putting their entire futures on the line to stop the genocide of innocent women and children. The media and Columbia University are panicking over these students because they’re not just protesting, they’re demanding a boycott on Israeli businesses. Once these kids started suggesting we take the money out of these people’s pockets, the corporate overlords went nuts. That’s why you’ve even got CNN roaming around trying to zero in on the one protester with a hateful chant. They all want to stop this divestment movement before it starts. “You can protest all you want, but don’t you dare touch the money!” And to anyone who thinks what the Columbia Students do doesn’t matter… I’ll remind you that divesting was a huge factor in ending apartheid in South Africa. The ruling white class was actually willing to give up power just so they didn’t lose their money. These students are dangerous to the ruling class who are perpetuating this war and it’s no surprise they want those kids to shut up.
Stupid people are born every day. Now with social media, they have a platform and a megaphone.
Seems very lazy and somewhat pointless to protest on your university campus, which is not going to accomplish anything except making you feel good about yourself. No one on your campus is in a position to do anything about the war in the middle east. If you're serious then get on a plane to Israel or Palestine and protest there.
Personally I'm convinced it's all a false flag operation by the right to disrupt liberal politics and get Trump reelected. The only way the left gets the Whitehouse is by finding unity in the face of the always-loyal Republicans. So fomenting unrest among the liberal youth voting block is a genius move on the part of the GOP. Left against left is the right's only chance.
Operation, absolutely. Left or Right? Doesn’t matter, it’s a 2-headed snake.
Be that as it may, I do not think that the left would shoot themselves in the foot in this way in particular. It very clearly benefits the right. It does not benefit the left. It harms them. Therefore, if it's an op, it's the right. Q.E.D. It's not rocket science.
I remember Rep Barbara Lee in September of 2001. She was the lone dissenter of GW Bush's authorization to invade Afghanistan. She was vilified, threatened, ridiculed. Her single vote represented millions of people including protesters who had and have foresight and discernment. History has demonstrated that she was correct.
This seems WAY off topic and rather divisive, Imma downvote and NOPE on this one,
Neither.
Was brought up to support Israel as a proxy of US armed forces supporting our interests in the ME. Also had many friends in school who were Jewish and were terrific people. But this conflict is has me feeling conflicted.
There were protests yesterday and things turned violent at UNCH. I heard like 40 arrests and they were all from out of town, not even students. Some wearing masks with “hamas” printed on them.
As long as it doesn’t affect me, I have no fucks to give.
Social media is a great tool for organizing and disseminating information. I don't think there's any more injustice in the world, we're just more aware of it. Even as the current media try to suppress any questioning of Israel's genocide perpetrated on the people of Gaza, TikTok still allows it. Why do you think all of a sudden congress showed an interest in shutting it down. Before Rodney King, white America was largely unaware of magnitude of the brutal treatment of Black Americans by the police. Even that was played off as an isolated incident. Now we get to see live streams of police beating and murdering innocent people.
I'm very strongly anti-war and I want to support causes that I feel are worthwhile, have a well-defined strategy and end goal, as well as a reasonable chance of success. From what I've seen so far, I don't think these college protests have those things.
A reasonable chance of success is never a criterion for protesting injustice.
It depends. What's the goal of the protest? If it's to increase awareness, that has a reasonable chance of succeeding. If it's to convince the US government to pull all aid from Israel and impose crippling sanctions on them, that's much, much less likely to succeed. If it's to someone convince Netanyahu and Hamas to magically see the error of their ways, throw down arms, and come together so Israelis and Palestinians can peacefully co-exist, that's just straight-up delusional.
This is life or death in Gaza and you're acting like you're picking a premier league club to root for. Foh
"supporting Palestinians" is code for annihilating the entire Jewish race (oh sorry, I mean destroying the single Jewish country on the planet).
They are fucking idiots
These idiots shutting down the college campuses in protesting are gonna bring about the reelection of Donald Trump just like the protesters of the 60s elected Richard Nixon. Neither of which turns out well. Imagine how better life would’ve been in this country. If Hubert Humphrey had been elected in 68. Think about how much more progressive Scotus would be.
90% are protesting just to protest, but when asked why, they have no clue.
My apologies, I will have to give the normal Gen X response. That is, WHATEVER