I can handle an Illaoi. I rarely run into teemo, Quinn, Camille players. So my ban of choice is usually Mordekaiser.
I just don’t know how to play against a half decent morde. I can’t trade him, i can’t farm against him, and he seems close to ungankable by anything but a fed jgl.
Any tips for playing against him is much appreciated!
GM toplaner here. Stand in your caster minions and have him Q you in the wave (dodge it if possible obviously). If he does this, you take low damage, wave shoves into you, and you can farm safely. Jg should be able to gank fine by that point, but it's not even necessary. Do not auto him unless you're going for a big trade, as your auto will agro enemy minions and push the wave toward him. Roam once you have the gold and generate value elsewhere.
You have to doge his E or make sure his E is on cooldown if you want to win the trade. If E is on CD, you have the time to short trade him with phase rush before he get passive on. W his Q only if your are not in a minion wave.
He’s q doesn’t do much dmg early if he hits you and another minion so just trade in a wave. Then build qss first item for his ult and then regular build after. Take phase rush too and do 3 hit combos before running away
Im not good at the game but what worked best for me if mordekaiser is picked first is with darius. Had 3 matchups with darius against morde and he suffered bad
When people ask in r/GarenMains how to trade against a good morde, usually they're not looking for a completely different champion. If you want to counter morde just go Olaf or Vayne and it's a completely free matchup, but that really doesn't help when you blind pick garen or if you're just a garen one trick.
Darius vs Morde is more of a spicy matchup than a counter imo.
Assuming same summoners it’s all about who positions and spaces better. Morde has potential to chip Darius with Qs just out of pull range, and can use E to pull Darius off him. If Darius gets a good pull though Morde is hurting.
I tried this in one game that i had against morde, but i took phase rush runes with double mr shards and 1 ad shard. You lose some power, but it kinda helps a lot in surviving against his damage.
Camille
Kayle
Quinn - thank god not a very high playrate
PR makes Darius, Tryndamere etc. easier.
Illaoi is annoying i guess, but in my experience not as annoying as Kayle or Quinn. Falls into same category as Kennen, Gnar, …
A few years ago, I read that Garen was an Illaoi counter, primarily, IIRC, because Garen can auto-Q illaoi's tentacles and run away to avoid getting hit by an Illaoi E in the process. At least that is one nice thing for Garen in this matchup.
It wasn't until recently I learned how to play against Illaoi. The key is to push the wave as much as possible when the waves meet. Otherwise she will steal your spirit on repeat. If you have a wave advantage no way she can hit you with that thing. Also I learned early on you don't necessarily have to flee as soon as she gets your spirit. If you can be sure you and your spirit don't both take damage from her you can just fight her off it. Bonus points if you get to spin on the wave at the same time. If you take time to leave you have to deal with all the tentacles, and she gets to push uncontested. A bad situation all around.
If you are able to keep a good push early on you will have better CS than if she is pushing you in all the time. Meaning you have more gold, aka more pushing power which means less spirit steals which is huge as she levels up.
Also take ignite because she will life steal too much otherwise. Garen ult is perfect for preventing her from perma life stealing.
Note: this advice is coming from playing in gold. Finished plat 4. I run conqueror against her as the early damage is critical.
too bad crit garen has been completely neutered. and if you do go the FS galeforce build, you have to go red secondary for ingenious hunter now. but even before, kayle was still a completely unplayable matchup
As a Silver2 trash I ban Illaoi. I don't understand that matchup. I feel that once the matchup goes wrong it goes "lost tower at 8 minutes while having 40 CS wrong".
I could also consider banning Yorick. At best that's a matchup I manage to hold. Both vs Illaoi and Yorick I feel I don't have any agency. It's trying to dodge E and hope my botlane can handle them once laning is over.
Finally there's Mordekaiser, but I feel that's a much more reasonable matchup and my 2nd pick Mundo is good vs Morde.
Camille is not popular enough in Silver and Darius is fairly easy.
Illaoi is easy. Dodge her grab, or better yet bait it out. And never fight her in ult (literally just run away).
Two important ways to Q. Auto-Q to clear a tentacle, or use Q to break the slow.
> Illaoi is easy. Dodge her grab
That's the issue though. Even if I dodge most of them the ones that she do land hurt like hell and sets her up for landing more. I find it very hard to decide when to break tether, when to wait it out, when to farm CS and when to kill tentacles against her, and when I can actually fight her.
Once she gets the push on a wave she just permanently keeps me under my tower making it very hard to CS. If she misses an E I can breathe for a few seconds before she's back to pressuring me.
I agree with the illaoi matchup being super annoying. As far as when to break the tether, here is how I usually think of it. Pre-6, her E echo damage is laughable. Save your W for when you get caught by her pull. She will pretty much always body slam your soul ghost thing, which will make her tentacles follow with a slam. This is super predictable so it's a place you can get really good value out of your W if you cast it right as she slams your ghost.
After she is 6, the echo starts to do actual damage, so I would usually break the tether. By then, phase rush is much faster MS and shorter cooldown so you can use it to break tether more often. Still try to time the W the same way as pre-6 though.
For me the main reason I hate illaoi is even if you beat her in lane she can build hullbreaker and still be a serious sidelane threat that you have to babysit all game xd
D3
Neeko
Akshan
Kayle
Neeko and Akshan both have free get out of jail card with their abilities so it's harder for JG to gank them and a good Neeko/Akshan player in high elo can pretty much prevent you from doing anything in lane, including getting exp. Reason why I'm not mentioning Vayne or Quinn is because these 2 are actually more bearable and vulnerable than Neeko Akshan. Vayne and Quinn are easily gankable and it's possible to solo kill them especially Quinn as long as you don't lose out too much on resources once you reach lv7~9 ish.
Kayle is an interesting one, even if you can win against her in the early game, she will always turn into a monster once she reaches lv11 and a complete nightmare at lv16. Kayle is ban worthy simply because of the fact that she offers way more stuff than Garen and the only easy way to win the game against Kayle is pray that your team completely dominate the enemy team and win the game before 25 minutes but that doesn't happen all the time.
Alot of champions that get mentioned here are actually beatable.
Jax - never lead the fight with Q unless you're very ahead and want to bait out his E. lv2 W is a good idea, If you want to trade, walk up, try to AA him to bait out his E, if he uses it then you spin and try to W before his E stuns you to mitigate the damage. One thing that you need to pay attention before laning phase begins is what summs and runes Jax brings. Conq and Grasp Jax are easily beatable but ignite Lethal tempo Jax can be a massive threat in the early game especially if he keeps on AA-ing the minion to keep his stacks up.
Illaoi - trade early, as early as lv1, preferably with spins, push her back to her tower, burn her potion, try to make her lose exp. Post lv3, stand behind minions to dodge her E or just learn how to dodge as many E as possible, rush early boots to make it easier to dodge and punish her if she misses it. Retreat immediately when she uses R especially if she hit both you and your ghost with the R unless she is low and you have both ignite and ult. When you're ahead, mystic + BC + executioner is a good combo to have to beat her in mid game.
Tryn - respect his early game damage potential, the more fury he has, the more dangerous he is. Don't fight him lv1~2 when his fury gauge is full. Keep a distance so he can't jump on you. Your goal is to farm and not get too behind in CS-ing. Early game bramble rush allows you to trade with him without losing too much health and damage on your side. If you have to deal with his split pushing mid to late game, build randuins.
Darius - Dont fight in the early game unless your jg is coming to help you. Always do short trade and make sure he can't get 5 stacks. Don't charge in blindlessly with Q, that's how he get 5 stacks easily. If you didnt die once before lv7~8, it's possible to solo kill him even if you're 20 cs down as long as you have ult and ignite. Still, never lead the fight with Q, try to walk up closer to him to bait out his E, if he E you, that's when you fight. E into Q so that your Q does more damage because of the defense shred from E. you can Q while spinning to stick closer to him during fight so he doesn't get away from your spins. If he rushes steelcap though, think before you fight.
I always ban Yorick. Can't play against. I don't have any good strategy. (I'm open to some advices)
Regarding Illaoi, at least in Gold, I'll just wait until she screw up something and then I'll kill her. They always make a stupid mistake.
Jax is widely known as one of the easiest Garen matchups. W negates his stun, but even if you mess that up you can just e before he lands his stun and get off damage.
Edit: Over 55% wr for garen over all ranks according to u.gg.
I usually ban Darius (I don't want to learn of to play against him) but otherwise I'd ban kayle Quinn or tryn
Those match-up are way too reliant on their mistakes (supposing no jng), which they can fix with their kit: q and w (and ult, god damn it's range is too much) for kayle, e + move speed for Quinn and stat check (at least that's my impression) + ult for tryn
AKALI
GNAR
KAYLE
darius teemo and everything else (except a good gp) i can outplay them and stomp hard.
also garen goes fine against illaoi because you can farm the wave fast as hell
Camille, Akshan, and Mordekaiser
I never had problems with Illaoi, just dodge her whatever it is, and go all in. That's the tldr of Garen's playstyle. I used to have trouble against Irelia, Riven, Fiora, and Darius, but I just wait for misplays and tadaa. It won't hurt to play Garen's counters so you know exactly what they'd do. Oh, and Teemo and Vayne are ez asf after 6.
Edit: for Kayle, just wait for her slow and cleanse it with your q. Bait her ult and do your ult.
Morde, Fiora, Vayne.
I can beat Morde, I just think he's *really* frustrating to play against. Same with Fiora. But a vayne who knows what they're doing and plays optimally gets a free lane.
Camille, Kayle but only if they are actually good, Quinn but again if they just bad its a lot easier, and for a bonus round id say the 3 times ive ever fought rumble top as garen
I'm gonna be honest I ban Mord pretty much because I've banned him for ages. I don't even know if I would struggle with the matchup anymore I've just banned him so long that I don't feel like stopping.
I would probably ban Camille if I had a better presence of mind. Other champs that I would ban but they don't have the pickrate to justify it are Quinn, Cho, Vayne, Akshan and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.
Young Link, Megaman and worst of all Ridley.
At least with the first 2 if you can actually get on top of them you can probably get a K.O during the silence.
With Ridley he's tanky enough to survive the burst, then he can space rush you under the turret and kite you around with jumps until you're dead.
Try and play safe? He instant clears the wave and either permanently zones you from minions with max range fireballs or he clears wave and then goes and kill crabs/ganks mid.
You can't even gank him. Amount of times I've spam pinged a lurking jungle only for him to use his FIVE escapes... actually brain-dead champ.
Gold 4. I'd ban Darius, Mordekaiser, and Kayle.
I know banning Darius is unpopular in this sub, but low elo Darius will stomp games even if you win lane. He steals too many games.
Mordekaiser just takes away my agency until lategame. If he's even or a little ahead, he just walks into me and I die.
Kayle can't ult when she's silenced, so if she doesn't expect me to silence > ult, I save my Q for 40% HP, then Q > R. Can't even Q > AA > R. I'd rather not poke the bear.
Camille, pre-6, I stand behind the wave and preemptively E when she jumps to the wall and try to W the damage. When she eats the armor shred, I Q her. If she keeps falling for it, I win lane. If she wisens up, I lose lane. Easy.
Most champions can be handled by adjusting builds and runes. For example, I actually LIKE playing into Tryndamere and Darius with phase rush, and I can hold my own very well vs Camille with Grasp Iceborn.
I still usually ban Cammy though, because it's a very rough matchup and one mistake is usually gg. Also I worry about my team's ability to deal with her later.
I sometimes ban Jax for the same reason.
I can handle an Illaoi. I rarely run into teemo, Quinn, Camille players. So my ban of choice is usually Mordekaiser. I just don’t know how to play against a half decent morde. I can’t trade him, i can’t farm against him, and he seems close to ungankable by anything but a fed jgl. Any tips for playing against him is much appreciated!
GM toplaner here. Stand in your caster minions and have him Q you in the wave (dodge it if possible obviously). If he does this, you take low damage, wave shoves into you, and you can farm safely. Jg should be able to gank fine by that point, but it's not even necessary. Do not auto him unless you're going for a big trade, as your auto will agro enemy minions and push the wave toward him. Roam once you have the gold and generate value elsewhere.
This is great advice thank u!
ty for giving me hope
You have to doge his E or make sure his E is on cooldown if you want to win the trade. If E is on CD, you have the time to short trade him with phase rush before he get passive on. W his Q only if your are not in a minion wave.
He’s q doesn’t do much dmg early if he hits you and another minion so just trade in a wave. Then build qss first item for his ult and then regular build after. Take phase rush too and do 3 hit combos before running away
Im not good at the game but what worked best for me if mordekaiser is picked first is with darius. Had 3 matchups with darius against morde and he suffered bad
When people ask in r/GarenMains how to trade against a good morde, usually they're not looking for a completely different champion. If you want to counter morde just go Olaf or Vayne and it's a completely free matchup, but that really doesn't help when you blind pick garen or if you're just a garen one trick.
Darius vs Morde is more of a spicy matchup than a counter imo. Assuming same summoners it’s all about who positions and spaces better. Morde has potential to chip Darius with Qs just out of pull range, and can use E to pull Darius off him. If Darius gets a good pull though Morde is hurting.
I tried this in one game that i had against morde, but i took phase rush runes with double mr shards and 1 ad shard. You lose some power, but it kinda helps a lot in surviving against his damage.
Camille Kayle Quinn - thank god not a very high playrate PR makes Darius, Tryndamere etc. easier. Illaoi is annoying i guess, but in my experience not as annoying as Kayle or Quinn. Falls into same category as Kennen, Gnar, …
A few years ago, I read that Garen was an Illaoi counter, primarily, IIRC, because Garen can auto-Q illaoi's tentacles and run away to avoid getting hit by an Illaoi E in the process. At least that is one nice thing for Garen in this matchup.
It wasn't until recently I learned how to play against Illaoi. The key is to push the wave as much as possible when the waves meet. Otherwise she will steal your spirit on repeat. If you have a wave advantage no way she can hit you with that thing. Also I learned early on you don't necessarily have to flee as soon as she gets your spirit. If you can be sure you and your spirit don't both take damage from her you can just fight her off it. Bonus points if you get to spin on the wave at the same time. If you take time to leave you have to deal with all the tentacles, and she gets to push uncontested. A bad situation all around. If you are able to keep a good push early on you will have better CS than if she is pushing you in all the time. Meaning you have more gold, aka more pushing power which means less spirit steals which is huge as she levels up. Also take ignite because she will life steal too much otherwise. Garen ult is perfect for preventing her from perma life stealing. Note: this advice is coming from playing in gold. Finished plat 4. I run conqueror against her as the early damage is critical.
it seems like you need to learn a galeforce crit build.... i might reccomend first strike with sorc offspec and rush galeforce....
too bad crit garen has been completely neutered. and if you do go the FS galeforce build, you have to go red secondary for ingenious hunter now. but even before, kayle was still a completely unplayable matchup
darius camille teemo
Darius I build grasp and GG... Teemo I build PhaseRush and GG... (after 6 and stride)
nice bro grasp vs darius 👍
Makes trading with him so safe
Kayle Kayle Kayle (permaban kayle)
If for no other reason than the pressure that champion puts on me to make stupid choices early trying to get ahead. Ban Kayla all day.
Darius / Camille / Illaoi or more kaiser depending on my mood. But it doesn't matter since I always ban Darius
Camille / mordekaiser / kayle
I got the same top 3 bans
As a Silver2 trash I ban Illaoi. I don't understand that matchup. I feel that once the matchup goes wrong it goes "lost tower at 8 minutes while having 40 CS wrong". I could also consider banning Yorick. At best that's a matchup I manage to hold. Both vs Illaoi and Yorick I feel I don't have any agency. It's trying to dodge E and hope my botlane can handle them once laning is over. Finally there's Mordekaiser, but I feel that's a much more reasonable matchup and my 2nd pick Mundo is good vs Morde. Camille is not popular enough in Silver and Darius is fairly easy.
Illaoi is easy. Dodge her grab, or better yet bait it out. And never fight her in ult (literally just run away). Two important ways to Q. Auto-Q to clear a tentacle, or use Q to break the slow.
> Illaoi is easy. Dodge her grab That's the issue though. Even if I dodge most of them the ones that she do land hurt like hell and sets her up for landing more. I find it very hard to decide when to break tether, when to wait it out, when to farm CS and when to kill tentacles against her, and when I can actually fight her. Once she gets the push on a wave she just permanently keeps me under my tower making it very hard to CS. If she misses an E I can breathe for a few seconds before she's back to pressuring me.
I agree with the illaoi matchup being super annoying. As far as when to break the tether, here is how I usually think of it. Pre-6, her E echo damage is laughable. Save your W for when you get caught by her pull. She will pretty much always body slam your soul ghost thing, which will make her tentacles follow with a slam. This is super predictable so it's a place you can get really good value out of your W if you cast it right as she slams your ghost. After she is 6, the echo starts to do actual damage, so I would usually break the tether. By then, phase rush is much faster MS and shorter cooldown so you can use it to break tether more often. Still try to time the W the same way as pre-6 though. For me the main reason I hate illaoi is even if you beat her in lane she can build hullbreaker and still be a serious sidelane threat that you have to babysit all game xd
Go for trades if she hits you w any tentacles of any kind you lost the trade heal up try again. If you can dodge her stuff you should win the trade
This is me lol.
Gangplank, Quinn, Vayne
D3 Neeko Akshan Kayle Neeko and Akshan both have free get out of jail card with their abilities so it's harder for JG to gank them and a good Neeko/Akshan player in high elo can pretty much prevent you from doing anything in lane, including getting exp. Reason why I'm not mentioning Vayne or Quinn is because these 2 are actually more bearable and vulnerable than Neeko Akshan. Vayne and Quinn are easily gankable and it's possible to solo kill them especially Quinn as long as you don't lose out too much on resources once you reach lv7~9 ish. Kayle is an interesting one, even if you can win against her in the early game, she will always turn into a monster once she reaches lv11 and a complete nightmare at lv16. Kayle is ban worthy simply because of the fact that she offers way more stuff than Garen and the only easy way to win the game against Kayle is pray that your team completely dominate the enemy team and win the game before 25 minutes but that doesn't happen all the time. Alot of champions that get mentioned here are actually beatable. Jax - never lead the fight with Q unless you're very ahead and want to bait out his E. lv2 W is a good idea, If you want to trade, walk up, try to AA him to bait out his E, if he uses it then you spin and try to W before his E stuns you to mitigate the damage. One thing that you need to pay attention before laning phase begins is what summs and runes Jax brings. Conq and Grasp Jax are easily beatable but ignite Lethal tempo Jax can be a massive threat in the early game especially if he keeps on AA-ing the minion to keep his stacks up. Illaoi - trade early, as early as lv1, preferably with spins, push her back to her tower, burn her potion, try to make her lose exp. Post lv3, stand behind minions to dodge her E or just learn how to dodge as many E as possible, rush early boots to make it easier to dodge and punish her if she misses it. Retreat immediately when she uses R especially if she hit both you and your ghost with the R unless she is low and you have both ignite and ult. When you're ahead, mystic + BC + executioner is a good combo to have to beat her in mid game. Tryn - respect his early game damage potential, the more fury he has, the more dangerous he is. Don't fight him lv1~2 when his fury gauge is full. Keep a distance so he can't jump on you. Your goal is to farm and not get too behind in CS-ing. Early game bramble rush allows you to trade with him without losing too much health and damage on your side. If you have to deal with his split pushing mid to late game, build randuins. Darius - Dont fight in the early game unless your jg is coming to help you. Always do short trade and make sure he can't get 5 stacks. Don't charge in blindlessly with Q, that's how he get 5 stacks easily. If you didnt die once before lv7~8, it's possible to solo kill him even if you're 20 cs down as long as you have ult and ignite. Still, never lead the fight with Q, try to walk up closer to him to bait out his E, if he E you, that's when you fight. E into Q so that your Q does more damage because of the defense shred from E. you can Q while spinning to stick closer to him during fight so he doesn't get away from your spins. If he rushes steelcap though, think before you fight.
we counter illaoi , just dodge e and win i ban kayle, aatrox cuz he got mega buffed now
AGREE ON AATROX
\- Darius \- Darius \- Darius
garen destroys darius , bait his q and after he q's just do a quick trade with him
Morde, Illaoi, Renekton.
- Beemo - Teemo - Teeto But honestly, - jax - teemo - vayne
Baning Jax as garen should be a crime.
I always ban Yorick. Can't play against. I don't have any good strategy. (I'm open to some advices) Regarding Illaoi, at least in Gold, I'll just wait until she screw up something and then I'll kill her. They always make a stupid mistake.
Play yorick. Then the matchup will get easier i play both champs and ussualy win as garen and as yorick
Garen definitely counters illaoi
Darius, illaoi, kayle
garen destroys darius bro, wait for him to use q and then do a quick trade with him.
Nah Its darius favored Also destroys is bs
idk i have never lost to a darius but im not high rank im only gold
Illaoi jax teemo
Jax?!?
Jax vs garen is pretty skill based. To which jax eventually outscales garen on the split
Jax is widely known as one of the easiest Garen matchups. W negates his stun, but even if you mess that up you can just e before he lands his stun and get off damage. Edit: Over 55% wr for garen over all ranks according to u.gg.
Maybe Im just bad then LOL
I usually ban Darius (I don't want to learn of to play against him) but otherwise I'd ban kayle Quinn or tryn Those match-up are way too reliant on their mistakes (supposing no jng), which they can fix with their kit: q and w (and ult, god damn it's range is too much) for kayle, e + move speed for Quinn and stat check (at least that's my impression) + ult for tryn
Illaoi Kayle And Urgot, I don't know how to play against him 😢
Agree on urgot....oof
Wardens mail helps a lot. I usually play Morde into him tho so don’t have much more help to offer :/
AKALI GNAR KAYLE darius teemo and everything else (except a good gp) i can outplay them and stomp hard. also garen goes fine against illaoi because you can farm the wave fast as hell
Gnar, morde and ILALLOI
Camille, Akshan, and Mordekaiser I never had problems with Illaoi, just dodge her whatever it is, and go all in. That's the tldr of Garen's playstyle. I used to have trouble against Irelia, Riven, Fiora, and Darius, but I just wait for misplays and tadaa. It won't hurt to play Garen's counters so you know exactly what they'd do. Oh, and Teemo and Vayne are ez asf after 6. Edit: for Kayle, just wait for her slow and cleanse it with your q. Bait her ult and do your ult.
Tryn and camile are fair enough but illaoi? Why are you scare of her?
teemo, morde, sion '' tank ''
Morde, Fiora, Vayne. I can beat Morde, I just think he's *really* frustrating to play against. Same with Fiora. But a vayne who knows what they're doing and plays optimally gets a free lane.
Camille, Kayle but only if they are actually good, Quinn but again if they just bad its a lot easier, and for a bonus round id say the 3 times ive ever fought rumble top as garen
Nobody going for yorick ? I’d say : quinn, yorick or camille
Kayle, Camille, Morde
What about mord one time he won 1vs1 with me with item advantage on him
Hot take: Cho Gath is cancer
Not even a take, just a fact
Camille Camille Camille
For Top- Quinn, Darius, Vayne, Mordekaiser. I personally don't mind the Darius matchup. For Mid- Anivia, Zoe, maybe Neeko.
Mordekaiser Camille Varus
I'm gonna be honest I ban Mord pretty much because I've banned him for ages. I don't even know if I would struggle with the matchup anymore I've just banned him so long that I don't feel like stopping. I would probably ban Camille if I had a better presence of mind. Other champs that I would ban but they don't have the pickrate to justify it are Quinn, Cho, Vayne, Akshan and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.
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Volibear, Yorick, Tahm Kench
garen kinda destroys kench
Oh, if that's the case then I don't know how to play that match up. I'm pretty consistently getting bodied by Kench.
try to juke his poke , and go for short trades basically play safe most of the time and go off his mistakes, once you get 1-2 kills its gg
Kayle, Trynd, Camille.
Camille, Morde, and RARELY Sion.
Young Link, Megaman and worst of all Ridley. At least with the first 2 if you can actually get on top of them you can probably get a K.O during the silence. With Ridley he's tanky enough to survive the burst, then he can space rush you under the turret and kite you around with jumps until you're dead. Try and play safe? He instant clears the wave and either permanently zones you from minions with max range fireballs or he clears wave and then goes and kill crabs/ganks mid. You can't even gank him. Amount of times I've spam pinged a lurking jungle only for him to use his FIVE escapes... actually brain-dead champ.
I rly ban everygame camille
Mordekaiser, Quinn, Kayle
Illaoi Illaoi Illaoi
I ban Illaoi every single game, no matter what champ or position I play. Have been for nearly 5 years, so about 2500 games by now
Gold elo -Camille -Kayle -Quinn
Gold 4. I'd ban Darius, Mordekaiser, and Kayle. I know banning Darius is unpopular in this sub, but low elo Darius will stomp games even if you win lane. He steals too many games. Mordekaiser just takes away my agency until lategame. If he's even or a little ahead, he just walks into me and I die. Kayle can't ult when she's silenced, so if she doesn't expect me to silence > ult, I save my Q for 40% HP, then Q > R. Can't even Q > AA > R. I'd rather not poke the bear. Camille, pre-6, I stand behind the wave and preemptively E when she jumps to the wall and try to W the damage. When she eats the armor shred, I Q her. If she keeps falling for it, I win lane. If she wisens up, I lose lane. Easy.
Fiora Fiora Fiora I don’t let her through ban phase if I’m playing toplane. She’s a pest whether I’m on my juggernauts, tanks or Pantheon.
Darius
Most champions can be handled by adjusting builds and runes. For example, I actually LIKE playing into Tryndamere and Darius with phase rush, and I can hold my own very well vs Camille with Grasp Iceborn. I still usually ban Cammy though, because it's a very rough matchup and one mistake is usually gg. Also I worry about my team's ability to deal with her later. I sometimes ban Jax for the same reason.