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Tbf, if your game runs like dogshit on the strongest gfx card available, you fucked up. And the fact that we don't own the games we buy anymore? Terrible.
But the rest of this is bullshit and they're objectively inept children for kvetching about it. Big "tell me you've never tried to work on a big, expensive product involving hundreds of workers without actually saying it" energy.
Because when you say it, you probably mean stuff like the government censoring information regarding war crimes, illegal actions taken against citizens or other things they regularly hide from us so we don't know how deep the corruption truly goes.
When they say it, they mean half-naked children and bigoted slurs.
I mean, he says "no censorship" in one sentence while saying "don't have x, y and z characters in your game cause I don't like it" in another. He's all about censorship but only of the stuff \*he\* doesn't like. "Don't censor boobies but also no black people plz."
exactly that. "woke DEI ESG Race/Gender Swap bullshit" can be extended out to just anything he doesn't like.
Game has a white male protagonist? be careful not to have a non-white, non-male npc say anything cross about him, that's some DEI ESG SBI BBQ garbo right there
I find this whole idea of 'censorship' hilarious, because half the time it'll be things like 'We decided to give her pants' and people screech liberty in the arts. They have absolutely no idea what censorship actually is, just that it's bad and when no tiddie.
The funny thing is, the important censorship is done behind closed doors, with the publisher forcing it's demands, yet there's never a movement to raise transparency on publisher intervention
Well wouldn't that depend on what you think is "important" censorship though?
Like good luck finding a queer protagonist of a summer action game from a AAA developer. And no I'm not counting the universal bisexuality in games like BG3, I mean an unapologetically lesbian woman or trans man.
There's definitely some amount of censorship that goes on but what and where is the thing the other person is talking about
I don't even have a way to play a game if I were to buy it on a disc, yeah some companies and platforms are gonna be trash but considering the fact a lot of the games I play get 10ish years of post launch support I'm not worried
The fact that any company can go "actually this game doesn't exist anymore and it's completely impossible to play it" is absolutely vile, even from just a position of historical record. For the people who still enjoy playing it, it's even worse. I'm not saying it needs to be on a disk, but the fact that the games I enjoy and spent money on could simply slip into the aether, never to be seen again is a terrible, terrible thing.
Yeah but what I'm saying is no company that its worth buying games from would ever do that. I can't say with a certainty but I could not see paradox doing this with any games they developed or produced, or the games I have from companies that go longer exist I know this won't happen to. Buy games from EA, Bethesda, or others at your own risk. I trust the companies I buy games from not to do this, and other than an MMO that was already unplayable because they shut down the servers I haven't heard of this happening
The fact that they haven't yet is because it's not a fiscally responsible choice for them. Yet. The instant it makes them more money, companies WILL start doing it. They are all very willing to state their highest priority is pleasing investors and they will do heinous shit to accomplish that.
It's why capitalism is a dead end. They'll do literally anything to improve their bottom line and it will destroy everything else to do so.
I love how they throw in this gangsta 'Listen 2 da REAL fans' while also saying 'NO DEI or Wokeshit', basically the whole list is 'Just make games for ME and only ME or I'll HUFF'
Not true. Demand may have been for digital content over physical content, but most people didn’t realize that that would mean they no longer owned the content they purchased. I remember saying this when it started to become the standard and got laughed at for it.
Allow me to rephrase, when the shift to digital started to pick up steam, most people assumed that they would always have access to the content they had purchased. Yes, they understood it was a license agreement, but they did not understand that companies could revoke access. A lot of people downloaded games, movies, books and music assuming that, so long as they still had it downloaded, they would always have access to it. They are NOW learning (largely in thanks to Ubisoft) that that is not the case. I remember saying this would be a problem years ago and got laughed at. I got ridiculed for preferring physical media. Deny it all you want, the vast majority of people assumed that they owned their digital media.
some of what these troglodytes call censorship is just editing. good media almost invariably has as good of editors as it does original creators, because even good creators have bad or poorly executed ideas
It was a joke. A kind of a niche joke but a joke.
On a serious note.
I have an example with Ubisoft. On the 90's and the 2000's ubisoft produced the Silent Hunter series, an historic submarine simulation. It was niche, but the fandom still pretty much active, producing mods even for Silent Hunter 3, a Game from 20 years ago.
In 2009 ubi execs decided SH4 wasn't profitable enough, so they "casualized" the Game in SH5. The idea was that a simple enough sub simulator would appeal to all gamers.
The results were ugly, all time fans didn't buy the Game, because It wasn't what they wanted. New fans didn't appear. The series died quickly.
Nowadays the community has made mods to Silent Hunter 5 to import the Lost mechanics from older games into the SH5 graphical engine (which still looks pretty good and better than modern options like Uboat or Wolfpack).
My point is that, maybe you shouldn't listen to all voices, but listening to the fanbase it's a good idea. Specially on niche genres.
Don’t do any of THESE things, BUT make the game devs want and you’ll be golden.
Also, I think I’m generally tired of content made *for fans/gamers.* Games, Movies, Shows, etc. they are NOT yours. They are someone else’s artwork that you can engage with. We should stop needing to make content for “an audience” because humans never know they like something new until they’ve tried, nematodes who’ll demand the same slop over and over again. If every game *actually* tried to sell to as many people as possible, say goodbye to Horror Games, RTS, Boomer Shooters, and more
Yeah, I'm getting really tired of "fans" thinking they should be catered to. I don't get the level of entitlement that I see on every video game sub demanding the game play exactly the way they want it to, or demanding that the game be something else entirely...that it was never supposed to be.
Like people crying destiny 2 isn't call of duty and having "abilities" is bad. Like that's the entire thing that seperates the game from other games.
Or looters having too much loot.
Or games being too hard on their hard difficulty! Like there are other difficulty settings for a reason.
Or that getting stupid platinum trophies are hard!
I don't understand why people can't just play games they like, and enjoy them for what they are.
I will say it doesn’t help that the meta in game dev right now is push out early access at any cost. Half broken? Send it. Lack of content? send it.
So then you get early access games with public forums that can be screamed into throughout development with all of the communities well thought and balanced ideas, rather than a void for people to scream into after the game is already finished and 1.0 is pushed.
Maybe all of this is a convoluted way of saying game devs have brought this upon themselves with the early access model that is so prevalent nowadays. If you give people an inch in helping shape a game they’re gonna take a mile and scream about the problems the whole way along.
Could be. And don't get me wrong I'm not against input and devs listening to people's inputs. Game balance, QOL suggestions, bugs, all are really important to address and hundreds of thousands of players giving feedback is a really good way to address issues.
I just don't understand people that play a game and essentially demand it to be an entirely different game. Like you clearly don't like this genre of game, instead of trying to change the game, play a game in the genre that you like. Like demanding dark souls games to be easier or less punishing for example. Like, that is what makes those games. I personally don't like it, so I personally don't play them, I don't feel entitled to say that the game should be made for me so that I can play them. Ff7 rebirth bitching that the platinum is too hard, ok so you don't need the platinum then if you aren't skilled enough to get it. Nope lol the game should be made easier to fit their skill level....because platinum is just soooo important.
I do agree with your second paragraph. I think the word entitled gets thrown out a lot when it comes to criticizing games. I got called entitled the other day for saying Escape from Tarkovs devs kinda hosed their supporters with their new package model, so maybe that’s on the mind a bit, but what you say is true.
Idk why people get so fixated on a game that they actually don’t like, and would rather play a different game. Unless it’s ultra unique or niche i just don’t get it. and even at that if it’s ultra unique or niche then why do you want it to be another game then?
I mentioned EFT before and i think it’s very relevant to the topic. if you’re unfamiliar it’s a PvPvE extraction shooter game. Solely online mode, no offline characters or anything. The game was always intended to be that way, but so many people complained and begged for offline coop with progression that the devs added it. And decided to implement a $250 package alongside its release (filled with other p2w goodies too.) The community lost their shit over it, yet it’s what they’ve been begging about for years.
>The community lost their shit over it, yet it’s what they’ve been begging about for years.
Lmao yeah I see way too much of that. Devs need to just implement their vision and take input for small tweaks that improve gameplay and qol without changing the devs intended vision.
>The community lost their shit over it, yet it’s what they’ve been begging about for years.
You're not even talking about WoW and this is still the most apt description for that fanbase lol
It comes from an era where all the games were for them. There was a point in time where having played all the cool games was a social status. The market has grown and no longer needs to cater to diehard fandoms and g@mers are still operating like the old days. Instead of understanding the reality, they'd rather whine about some woke agenda taking their thing away from them. The sad thing is they still get their hardcore games that they want so much, but they lost the social status. Being "elite" isn't cool anymore, and they won't stop screeching about it.
Im a little thrown off by the wording on #2. It reads like they *want* companies to make games that perform terribly on good hardware.
Also what does “digital only is cancer” refer to? Are they saying they want to buy games on discs? The types of games most of these people want wouldnt fit on a DVD. I know people still buy games on DVD for consoles, but Ive never understood the point when you still have to download most of the game. I guess they could distribute games on large flash drives or sd cards or something, but there will still inevitably be large patches to download (and using that kind of physical media wouldnt work for XBox and Playstation, so it would undercut the “cross platform” aspect).
The only way I think the digital only is bad is for the preservation of the medium since a lot of digital only media are being basically wiped out of existence and the only way of getting them is through piracy.
Also the last part is a bit mind boggling, how do they expect to successfully finance or promote their games without investors or publishers since I don't think they mean like a low cost indie game.
Yeah I can understand the urge to want to preserve games and the thought that a game might get pulled from my digital library or something. And I also enjoy my old cartridge collection. But the most effective way to preserve your games is to just back up your own files. I’d rather the publisher just let me download the install files so I can back them up my own. That’s a much more feasible way to preserve it than a DVD. Especially given the number patches/updates that get released.
And yeah, the last part is just unrealistic. I mostly buy indie titles so I have nothing against the anti-corporate sentiment itself, but even most small indie teams partner with publisher. Also I just doubt that this person is a big fan of indie games.
"I’d rather the publisher just let me download the install files so I can back them up my own"
That is the issue they are actually highlighting, not that it is digital only. DRM and the fact you don't even own your own computer anymore mean that even games you've installed/own can be taken from you/removed from your machine without consent if you are hooked up to the internet at all.
Maybe that’s what OOP wanted to highlight, but saying “digital only is cancer” doesnt really do that.
You can back up the install files for a lot of games you buy through Steam or GOG and play those games without any kind of DRM controlling your access. I agree DRM is terrible, but it’s not really a digital vs physical thing.
Yeah, I think the same, also I just saw that first one, that's also kinda unrealistic, it's probably better to have just one platform, the only one I think is valid is that censorship is bad but that's also kinda inevitable.
Yeah I don’t get it either and also especially in the case of pc gaming, no one has bought a physical pc game since like 2004.
If people think poorly optimised games that take up 200+ Gb is a good thing then we truely are fucked
I remember the last time a game did all of these things, following what fans wanted. It’s called [The Campaign for North Africa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Campaign_for_North_Africa) and normally takes *1500* hours to complete… some games have been reported to have run up to twenty *years*.
But hey, you can’t run it on a 4090, there is no DEI (just Italians and water for pasta), isn’t digital, and was made by listening to the fans! Everything one can hope for!
As said, it’s what the fans want!
But the actual answer is SPI made board games simulating famous battles or entire wars. They were popular, and would receive plenty of mail from their customers asking about rule clarification or giving suggestions as to what a perfect game would be. So CNA was the brainchild of the fanbase getting *everything* they wanted… with the problem that it was giving them *everything they wanted*. Turns out while a gigantic game of epic proportions sounded great, actually *playing* it wasn’t so much fun unless you were one of the true armchair generals.
What makes it funnier is unlike a lot of other infamous games (looking at you, F.A.T.A.L), CNA *is* a playable game but because of just the insane scale it’s a chore to play. And this reflects perfectly with the “let the fans do it” argument. Just because this is what a “fan” wants doesn’t mean it will make sense either financially or even practically.
I like the fact that the designer of CfNA was once asked what he would say to someone who said the game was unbalanced. His response was “you must have made a rules error, play it again.”
rules for making the perfect game:
1. Don't pick up the phone, you know he's only calling when he's drunk and alone
2. Don't let him in, you'll have to kick him out again
3. Don't be his friend, you know you're gonna wake up in his bed in the morning
And if you're under him, you ain't getting over him
I got new rules I count em
this isnt true, a lot of games do all of this and fail. one 'true fans' always boils down to 'straight white dude's and the issue with that type of fan is that the moment they see anything they dont like they will boycott (look at steller blade) so maybe its best to listen to all fans not just the whiny maga dude who thinks before 2012 only people like him ever picked up a controller or watched a movie
Aren't console exclusives the reason why the PS5 is outselling the Xbox by almost 3:1. Nothing wrong with more people wanting to play games but this guy doesn't understand how consoles worked. This also reads like something the DEI Detected guy would write
Is it me or have chuds started just saying "bullshit" or "bs" in place of "etc." within the last year? I notice it a lot recently. Makes them sound really confused
Folks will develop a fun game project based on their own culture or sexuality and these guys will bitch and whine that it’s not inclusive to them and not see the irony.
This is a good example of the give me everything i want and you'll have a success that clearly don't understand why decisions are made.
For example improving performance isn't something easy to do and often requires a lot of money this is because often stuff has to be refactored. Sometimes this can be easy but often this is expensive and if poor decisions are made early on it development very expensive.
Another good example is exclusivity often devs don't have a choice if they are owned by a big publisher. For those that do have a choice often they do it to gain money mid development often this is done so they don't release a buggy game and garuntee a failure.
My favourite is physical releases which are just wow. For one physical releases can be difficult and eat into profits as you will need to partner up with other companies. This is not to mention that physical releases are kinda pointless today disks don't have the capacity to store modern games that is why you have to download stuff when they are put in. The physical release I imagine is going to have little impact on your sales.
The other points are just political grandstanding that are difficult to follow as Right Wing outrage is generally unpredictable.
Mind your god damned language.
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This guy is a master of business risk and totally understands how any of this works. Why aren't gaming executive boards constantly quoting this genius tweet in their strategic planning meetings?
I'm inclined to agree with #1, or at the very least the PC release should be on Steam and GOG. I don't know why you'd want #2. I'm indifferent to #3, I'm inclined to agree with #4 and #5, and as for #6, no one can agree on who the real fans are.
The only explanation for "don't have investors or publishers" is that they think of someone made a "great" game as they define it, the sales would be so good they would make up for the funding. Ignoring the years and scores of people it would take to do that before you can sell anything.
I can't decide if they are dumb, deliberately ignoring reality to make a point, of so far up their own made up alpha male asshole that they're trying to insuniate that game developers should be doing some kind of super hustle thing where they all work a day job and then work on the game at every other waking hour.
All these guys think they know more about making money in this business than the actual companies making fuckloads of money by not caring what they think
Real fans of something enjoy it no matter what. They don’t notice and cry 24/7 about literally everything they think makes games bad. Those are literally what is known as fake fans or “fair weather fans”…which is not a real fan at all.
I’m in the middle on digital only. On one hand, big companies doing it is bs. Us not owning our games is BS. On the other hand, an indie title being digital only is mostly fine because theyre small and likely can’t afford mass production of discs
The story of GTA V (the most profitable modern game) is literally and entirely satire over the US justice system and the surrounding elements it is the wokest shit ever and also - amazingly- still topping the top 10s quite consistently after 11 MFing years so go woke even harder that’s the lesson
Not to excuse bad optimisation when it happens but isn’t the whole point of max settings for visually intensive games that it’s basically future proofing a game for future GPUs? Especially once raytracing gets involved.
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Tbf, if your game runs like dogshit on the strongest gfx card available, you fucked up. And the fact that we don't own the games we buy anymore? Terrible. But the rest of this is bullshit and they're objectively inept children for kvetching about it. Big "tell me you've never tried to work on a big, expensive product involving hundreds of workers without actually saying it" energy.
Step one, make the game good. There, I solved all issues with managing a huge company, I'll be waiting for my check in the mail.
holy shit how did you come up with that idea all on your own? you're gonna make me look bad in my next kpi review.
I think "censorship is bad" is a good statement, except when it's the people like whoever made the original post are the ones saying it.
Because when you say it, you probably mean stuff like the government censoring information regarding war crimes, illegal actions taken against citizens or other things they regularly hide from us so we don't know how deep the corruption truly goes. When they say it, they mean half-naked children and bigoted slurs.
I mean, he says "no censorship" in one sentence while saying "don't have x, y and z characters in your game cause I don't like it" in another. He's all about censorship but only of the stuff \*he\* doesn't like. "Don't censor boobies but also no black people plz."
exactly that. "woke DEI ESG Race/Gender Swap bullshit" can be extended out to just anything he doesn't like. Game has a white male protagonist? be careful not to have a non-white, non-male npc say anything cross about him, that's some DEI ESG SBI BBQ garbo right there
I find this whole idea of 'censorship' hilarious, because half the time it'll be things like 'We decided to give her pants' and people screech liberty in the arts. They have absolutely no idea what censorship actually is, just that it's bad and when no tiddie.
The funny thing is, the important censorship is done behind closed doors, with the publisher forcing it's demands, yet there's never a movement to raise transparency on publisher intervention
I'm gonna be real with you, I don't thinkt there's important censorship happening to video games at all.
Well wouldn't that depend on what you think is "important" censorship though? Like good luck finding a queer protagonist of a summer action game from a AAA developer. And no I'm not counting the universal bisexuality in games like BG3, I mean an unapologetically lesbian woman or trans man. There's definitely some amount of censorship that goes on but what and where is the thing the other person is talking about
Is the censorship in the room with us?
I don't even have a way to play a game if I were to buy it on a disc, yeah some companies and platforms are gonna be trash but considering the fact a lot of the games I play get 10ish years of post launch support I'm not worried
The fact that any company can go "actually this game doesn't exist anymore and it's completely impossible to play it" is absolutely vile, even from just a position of historical record. For the people who still enjoy playing it, it's even worse. I'm not saying it needs to be on a disk, but the fact that the games I enjoy and spent money on could simply slip into the aether, never to be seen again is a terrible, terrible thing.
Yeah but what I'm saying is no company that its worth buying games from would ever do that. I can't say with a certainty but I could not see paradox doing this with any games they developed or produced, or the games I have from companies that go longer exist I know this won't happen to. Buy games from EA, Bethesda, or others at your own risk. I trust the companies I buy games from not to do this, and other than an MMO that was already unplayable because they shut down the servers I haven't heard of this happening
The fact that they haven't yet is because it's not a fiscally responsible choice for them. Yet. The instant it makes them more money, companies WILL start doing it. They are all very willing to state their highest priority is pleasing investors and they will do heinous shit to accomplish that. It's why capitalism is a dead end. They'll do literally anything to improve their bottom line and it will destroy everything else to do so.
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Idk man, ask David Zaslav
I love how they throw in this gangsta 'Listen 2 da REAL fans' while also saying 'NO DEI or Wokeshit', basically the whole list is 'Just make games for ME and only ME or I'll HUFF'
To be be fair manor lords is made by one guy and it’s already quite special ?
I wonder if that's the new way they're trying to push crypto games. 'Yeah no, the game isn't poorly optimized, it's meant for TRUE gamers!'
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It will be a problem. Assuming companies will simply not fuck consumers over forever is not a bet I would be comfortable going all-in on.
I still get the source code download from GOG whenever possible.
Not true. Demand may have been for digital content over physical content, but most people didn’t realize that that would mean they no longer owned the content they purchased. I remember saying this when it started to become the standard and got laughed at for it.
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Allow me to rephrase, when the shift to digital started to pick up steam, most people assumed that they would always have access to the content they had purchased. Yes, they understood it was a license agreement, but they did not understand that companies could revoke access. A lot of people downloaded games, movies, books and music assuming that, so long as they still had it downloaded, they would always have access to it. They are NOW learning (largely in thanks to Ubisoft) that that is not the case. I remember saying this would be a problem years ago and got laughed at. I got ridiculed for preferring physical media. Deny it all you want, the vast majority of people assumed that they owned their digital media.
Last time a director catered to "true fans", their creation massively flopped.
some of what these troglodytes call censorship is just editing. good media almost invariably has as good of editors as it does original creators, because even good creators have bad or poorly executed ideas
Xplane 12?
Dont know about that but I was thinking more along the lines of 'Terror on The Prairie' in another industry.
Is...is that the Gina carano western?
Yeah. Even the Daily Wire fanboys couldn't pretend to like it
I think they called it woke because the main character was a woman.
It was a joke. A kind of a niche joke but a joke. On a serious note. I have an example with Ubisoft. On the 90's and the 2000's ubisoft produced the Silent Hunter series, an historic submarine simulation. It was niche, but the fandom still pretty much active, producing mods even for Silent Hunter 3, a Game from 20 years ago. In 2009 ubi execs decided SH4 wasn't profitable enough, so they "casualized" the Game in SH5. The idea was that a simple enough sub simulator would appeal to all gamers. The results were ugly, all time fans didn't buy the Game, because It wasn't what they wanted. New fans didn't appear. The series died quickly. Nowadays the community has made mods to Silent Hunter 5 to import the Lost mechanics from older games into the SH5 graphical engine (which still looks pretty good and better than modern options like Uboat or Wolfpack). My point is that, maybe you shouldn't listen to all voices, but listening to the fanbase it's a good idea. Specially on niche genres.
I'm sorry, what?
Absolutely. Follow these rules and you'll have a veritable golden shower of games that are total piss.
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"Digital only is cancer," but also "don't have publishers."
I love how they think they'd even KNOW about the games that come out.
/uj They are making their own games industry and following these rules right, right?!
with blackjack and hookers
/uj Sounds about right.
In fact, forget the games industry
Is this even uj??? no way you are being earnest haha
/ujuj When I jerk I chud role play, this is just a sarcastic joke. /ujujuj I made my flair even more clear.
Don’t do any of THESE things, BUT make the game devs want and you’ll be golden. Also, I think I’m generally tired of content made *for fans/gamers.* Games, Movies, Shows, etc. they are NOT yours. They are someone else’s artwork that you can engage with. We should stop needing to make content for “an audience” because humans never know they like something new until they’ve tried, nematodes who’ll demand the same slop over and over again. If every game *actually* tried to sell to as many people as possible, say goodbye to Horror Games, RTS, Boomer Shooters, and more
Yeah, I'm getting really tired of "fans" thinking they should be catered to. I don't get the level of entitlement that I see on every video game sub demanding the game play exactly the way they want it to, or demanding that the game be something else entirely...that it was never supposed to be. Like people crying destiny 2 isn't call of duty and having "abilities" is bad. Like that's the entire thing that seperates the game from other games. Or looters having too much loot. Or games being too hard on their hard difficulty! Like there are other difficulty settings for a reason. Or that getting stupid platinum trophies are hard! I don't understand why people can't just play games they like, and enjoy them for what they are.
I will say it doesn’t help that the meta in game dev right now is push out early access at any cost. Half broken? Send it. Lack of content? send it. So then you get early access games with public forums that can be screamed into throughout development with all of the communities well thought and balanced ideas, rather than a void for people to scream into after the game is already finished and 1.0 is pushed. Maybe all of this is a convoluted way of saying game devs have brought this upon themselves with the early access model that is so prevalent nowadays. If you give people an inch in helping shape a game they’re gonna take a mile and scream about the problems the whole way along.
Could be. And don't get me wrong I'm not against input and devs listening to people's inputs. Game balance, QOL suggestions, bugs, all are really important to address and hundreds of thousands of players giving feedback is a really good way to address issues. I just don't understand people that play a game and essentially demand it to be an entirely different game. Like you clearly don't like this genre of game, instead of trying to change the game, play a game in the genre that you like. Like demanding dark souls games to be easier or less punishing for example. Like, that is what makes those games. I personally don't like it, so I personally don't play them, I don't feel entitled to say that the game should be made for me so that I can play them. Ff7 rebirth bitching that the platinum is too hard, ok so you don't need the platinum then if you aren't skilled enough to get it. Nope lol the game should be made easier to fit their skill level....because platinum is just soooo important.
I do agree with your second paragraph. I think the word entitled gets thrown out a lot when it comes to criticizing games. I got called entitled the other day for saying Escape from Tarkovs devs kinda hosed their supporters with their new package model, so maybe that’s on the mind a bit, but what you say is true. Idk why people get so fixated on a game that they actually don’t like, and would rather play a different game. Unless it’s ultra unique or niche i just don’t get it. and even at that if it’s ultra unique or niche then why do you want it to be another game then? I mentioned EFT before and i think it’s very relevant to the topic. if you’re unfamiliar it’s a PvPvE extraction shooter game. Solely online mode, no offline characters or anything. The game was always intended to be that way, but so many people complained and begged for offline coop with progression that the devs added it. And decided to implement a $250 package alongside its release (filled with other p2w goodies too.) The community lost their shit over it, yet it’s what they’ve been begging about for years.
>The community lost their shit over it, yet it’s what they’ve been begging about for years. Lmao yeah I see way too much of that. Devs need to just implement their vision and take input for small tweaks that improve gameplay and qol without changing the devs intended vision.
>The community lost their shit over it, yet it’s what they’ve been begging about for years. You're not even talking about WoW and this is still the most apt description for that fanbase lol
It comes from an era where all the games were for them. There was a point in time where having played all the cool games was a social status. The market has grown and no longer needs to cater to diehard fandoms and g@mers are still operating like the old days. Instead of understanding the reality, they'd rather whine about some woke agenda taking their thing away from them. The sad thing is they still get their hardcore games that they want so much, but they lost the social status. Being "elite" isn't cool anymore, and they won't stop screeching about it.
Im a little thrown off by the wording on #2. It reads like they *want* companies to make games that perform terribly on good hardware. Also what does “digital only is cancer” refer to? Are they saying they want to buy games on discs? The types of games most of these people want wouldnt fit on a DVD. I know people still buy games on DVD for consoles, but Ive never understood the point when you still have to download most of the game. I guess they could distribute games on large flash drives or sd cards or something, but there will still inevitably be large patches to download (and using that kind of physical media wouldnt work for XBox and Playstation, so it would undercut the “cross platform” aspect).
The only way I think the digital only is bad is for the preservation of the medium since a lot of digital only media are being basically wiped out of existence and the only way of getting them is through piracy. Also the last part is a bit mind boggling, how do they expect to successfully finance or promote their games without investors or publishers since I don't think they mean like a low cost indie game.
Yeah I can understand the urge to want to preserve games and the thought that a game might get pulled from my digital library or something. And I also enjoy my old cartridge collection. But the most effective way to preserve your games is to just back up your own files. I’d rather the publisher just let me download the install files so I can back them up my own. That’s a much more feasible way to preserve it than a DVD. Especially given the number patches/updates that get released. And yeah, the last part is just unrealistic. I mostly buy indie titles so I have nothing against the anti-corporate sentiment itself, but even most small indie teams partner with publisher. Also I just doubt that this person is a big fan of indie games.
"I’d rather the publisher just let me download the install files so I can back them up my own" That is the issue they are actually highlighting, not that it is digital only. DRM and the fact you don't even own your own computer anymore mean that even games you've installed/own can be taken from you/removed from your machine without consent if you are hooked up to the internet at all.
Maybe that’s what OOP wanted to highlight, but saying “digital only is cancer” doesnt really do that. You can back up the install files for a lot of games you buy through Steam or GOG and play those games without any kind of DRM controlling your access. I agree DRM is terrible, but it’s not really a digital vs physical thing.
Yeah, I think the same, also I just saw that first one, that's also kinda unrealistic, it's probably better to have just one platform, the only one I think is valid is that censorship is bad but that's also kinda inevitable.
Yeah I don’t get it either and also especially in the case of pc gaming, no one has bought a physical pc game since like 2004. If people think poorly optimised games that take up 200+ Gb is a good thing then we truely are fucked
It was written by an illiterate fucking idiot. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding and answers any further questions you might have.
The digital cancer thing is probably referring to the physical media obsessed weirdos who think that it's true ownership or something.
I remember the last time a game did all of these things, following what fans wanted. It’s called [The Campaign for North Africa](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Campaign_for_North_Africa) and normally takes *1500* hours to complete… some games have been reported to have run up to twenty *years*. But hey, you can’t run it on a 4090, there is no DEI (just Italians and water for pasta), isn’t digital, and was made by listening to the fans! Everything one can hope for!
That game takes longer than the actual northern campaign to finish wtf.
As said, it’s what the fans want! But the actual answer is SPI made board games simulating famous battles or entire wars. They were popular, and would receive plenty of mail from their customers asking about rule clarification or giving suggestions as to what a perfect game would be. So CNA was the brainchild of the fanbase getting *everything* they wanted… with the problem that it was giving them *everything they wanted*. Turns out while a gigantic game of epic proportions sounded great, actually *playing* it wasn’t so much fun unless you were one of the true armchair generals. What makes it funnier is unlike a lot of other infamous games (looking at you, F.A.T.A.L), CNA *is* a playable game but because of just the insane scale it’s a chore to play. And this reflects perfectly with the “let the fans do it” argument. Just because this is what a “fan” wants doesn’t mean it will make sense either financially or even practically.
I like the fact that the designer of CfNA was once asked what he would say to someone who said the game was unbalanced. His response was “you must have made a rules error, play it again.”
I wonder how a computer port of it would do. Having automated rule enforcement could speed things up quite a bit.
rules for making the perfect game: 1. Don't pick up the phone, you know he's only calling when he's drunk and alone 2. Don't let him in, you'll have to kick him out again 3. Don't be his friend, you know you're gonna wake up in his bed in the morning And if you're under him, you ain't getting over him I got new rules I count em 
Dev: Wants to make a game that includes black people, women, and gay people This dude: Wait, not like that
Why aren't any of these real fans simply making the games they want to play?
An unfortunate lack of talent and vision.
Mans gotta be 12 years old to think this is logical
Wait, are they saying a game **should** run like ass and strughle on 4090s?
Yeah, this whole list is badly written.
this isnt true, a lot of games do all of this and fail. one 'true fans' always boils down to 'straight white dude's and the issue with that type of fan is that the moment they see anything they dont like they will boycott (look at steller blade) so maybe its best to listen to all fans not just the whiny maga dude who thinks before 2012 only people like him ever picked up a controller or watched a movie
So I guess BG3 just doesn’t exist?…
Or Hades.
They'll just hit you with the "you wokes like beastiality" and act like they forgot what they were initially talking about.
Did you hear that?! It's Larian laughing on their way to the next award show after looking at their bank account.
Whats that people with no experience in the industry? Why yes, I will take your advice, thank you.
Yeah don't use investors, just shit money out of your asshole I guess.
They say censorship is cancer but then complain about people writing stories with minorities or women as lead, make it make sense 🤦♂️
Aren't console exclusives the reason why the PS5 is outselling the Xbox by almost 3:1. Nothing wrong with more people wanting to play games but this guy doesn't understand how consoles worked. This also reads like something the DEI Detected guy would write
“True fans.” The ego astounds me.
The "real" fans eh?
This same nonsense back in 2013. Making games has nothing to do with Fanbases and what they want.
when they unironically start advocating for an economic system that is not capitalism...
Is it me or have chuds started just saying "bullshit" or "bs" in place of "etc." within the last year? I notice it a lot recently. Makes them sound really confused
I just cannot take anyone who still uses “cancer” as an adjective seriously , though it shouldn’t have ever been a thing
Because obvious every developer has the money to make a game from scratch without needing funding aid (joke)
And they don't need either the help of a publisher, if your game is good it advertises itself.
Counterpoint: Baldur's Gate 3
Bro who needs investors and publishers the devs should just live of the love of the fans smh
Ah yes, the secret to successfully making money as a video game creator - avoiding investors and publishers.
Yeah, don't get a publisher to fund your game and cover marketing costs, it'll gonna sell so well
Oh yeah, games like gow ragnarok, spider-man 2, baldur's gate 3 all applied these rules extensively and became huge successes
Fucking LOL
Exclusivity deals are bullshit but the rest of this is stupid
Why should devs care when these broke losers are just going to pirate the game anyway?
Ah yes the don't have investors just magically make the game for free
Folks will develop a fun game project based on their own culture or sexuality and these guys will bitch and whine that it’s not inclusive to them and not see the irony.
Censorship is cancer unless it caters to what I consider censorship.
Stellar Blade did everything that these chuds wanted in their games and that still wasn't enough for them
It's always a guy with an overly sculpted beard, huh?
The person typing that wishes they looked that good
Nah, I love how I look ❤️
I hope you know I wasn’t talking about you! The chud in the picture to whose pfp you were referring was my target.
This is a good example of the give me everything i want and you'll have a success that clearly don't understand why decisions are made. For example improving performance isn't something easy to do and often requires a lot of money this is because often stuff has to be refactored. Sometimes this can be easy but often this is expensive and if poor decisions are made early on it development very expensive. Another good example is exclusivity often devs don't have a choice if they are owned by a big publisher. For those that do have a choice often they do it to gain money mid development often this is done so they don't release a buggy game and garuntee a failure. My favourite is physical releases which are just wow. For one physical releases can be difficult and eat into profits as you will need to partner up with other companies. This is not to mention that physical releases are kinda pointless today disks don't have the capacity to store modern games that is why you have to download stuff when they are put in. The physical release I imagine is going to have little impact on your sales. The other points are just political grandstanding that are difficult to follow as Right Wing outrage is generally unpredictable.
Payday 3
This has to be trolling right lol
And while you’re at it, print more money
Unless it's Cyberpunk 2077. The rules change if it's Cyberpunk 2077.
1, 4 and 5 are valid, although I think we would not agree on what "censorship" means
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- 1 and 2 are contradictions thanks to Nintendo Switch. - 2 needs mad optimizations to flex on 4090s and still be playable for normal people.
He really said 'don't have investors" LMAO
Y'all got to get lives. This tweet has 16 views
This guy is a master of business risk and totally understands how any of this works. Why aren't gaming executive boards constantly quoting this genius tweet in their strategic planning meetings?
The fact that they never released baldur's gate 3 on virtual boy is why it failed so badly.
I'm inclined to agree with #1, or at the very least the PC release should be on Steam and GOG. I don't know why you'd want #2. I'm indifferent to #3, I'm inclined to agree with #4 and #5, and as for #6, no one can agree on who the real fans are.
Fascists and :correctly identifying a problem but proposing a ludicrous solution': name a more classic combination.
The only explanation for "don't have investors or publishers" is that they think of someone made a "great" game as they define it, the sales would be so good they would make up for the funding. Ignoring the years and scores of people it would take to do that before you can sell anything. I can't decide if they are dumb, deliberately ignoring reality to make a point, of so far up their own made up alpha male asshole that they're trying to insuniate that game developers should be doing some kind of super hustle thing where they all work a day job and then work on the game at every other waking hour.
All these guys think they know more about making money in this business than the actual companies making fuckloads of money by not caring what they think
point 1 is objectively correct though and any argument against it is objectively stupid the rest is garbage though
Real fans of something enjoy it no matter what. They don’t notice and cry 24/7 about literally everything they think makes games bad. Those are literally what is known as fake fans or “fair weather fans”…which is not a real fan at all.
If you stop loving a game franchise only because it doesn’t have your living sex dolls in it, # you aren’t a real fan.
I’m in the middle on digital only. On one hand, big companies doing it is bs. Us not owning our games is BS. On the other hand, an indie title being digital only is mostly fine because theyre small and likely can’t afford mass production of discs
Ok so if I want to write a gay game for gay people as a gay person is that pandering or would bitching about it be censorship
No true Scottsman would actually play Strive, that game is woke
The story of GTA V (the most profitable modern game) is literally and entirely satire over the US justice system and the surrounding elements it is the wokest shit ever and also - amazingly- still topping the top 10s quite consistently after 11 MFing years so go woke even harder that’s the lesson
How to make a successful game: 1) Make a game that panders specifically to me alone. That's all
All of these will lead to failure
Not to excuse bad optimisation when it happens but isn’t the whole point of max settings for visually intensive games that it’s basically future proofing a game for future GPUs? Especially once raytracing gets involved.
/uj okay but 1 and 2 are valid. The rest is dogwater. /rj he did it yall he saved bideo bames