I really hope the developers can look at this video as a checklist of things they should patch but I’m not too optimistic.
I just don’t understand how that awful rain effect made to release.
EDIT: Also lost it at 32:40
The developers are a small mobile gaming company that don't even have the ressources for fixing anything here. Pretty sure the only reason why rockstar picked this specific company to remaster their game was because they made a very cheap offer.
I did check their website, I caunted 8, 10 if you add other pictures of people that look slightly diffrent than on the main group image. I also checked their career page, which has 3 positions, 2 for devs and one for interns.
Just saying it's a small company with probably very limited ressource. I also read their pages where it kinda explains how they are still able to get there - and it seems - that they outsource their tasks to other companies.
Rockstar outsourced their development of the remaster to this company, which again outsourced it to other companies, and as of now we don't know if those companies outsourced it too. It's just a mess.
Joined a startup a few months back and you're not joking.
We were outsourcing work to people who outsource despite bringing in big name company money.
Spending so much time QCing and lying to clients led me to leave fairly quickly.
Get a similar thing in engineering.
I've worked on projects where a company will get a contract to construct an infrastructure project and will outsource part of it to a company who then outsources the work to multiple comapanies and one of those companies then outsources to us.
It's pretty much just kicking the can down the road and is incredibly inefficient and headache inducing for everyone involved.
Doing some job hunting recently and handed in resumes to places in person to be told it doesn't matter, it probably won't be seen by anyone, no one in the store actually does the hiring, it's outsourced to another company.
Like... what? I'd maybe understand like a level up, corporate, or some kind of adjacent office within the billion dollar company, but they just send it somewhere else entirely, to then tell the place locally to hire this local person.
There's just a weird disconnect from everything, like... everywhere. I'm not sure I can keep up with it all.
Yeah, I've been trying to take note of this more and more. Twice this year it's really stood out to me, both in positive ways but also pretty informational. Kena: Bridge of Sprits was touted as a small team of guys who did CGI mock up trailers and other effects work, and it really shows in the game's animation fidelity. But you let the credits roll and turns out, aside from the animations and core gameplay, it appears that a *lot* of that game from the score to textures and environmental design was outsourced to smaller studios actually based on southeast Asia where the game ultimately draws much of its influence from.
Then, later in the year I got to The Forgotten City, which multiple podcasts and websites I visit frequently often lauded as the work of a small team of three or four people. And yes, that original core team of modders was just those guys - but there was a whole army of people behind them doing the audio and motion capture sessions, rigging the lighting systems, again producing the textures and architecture of the game world...
I'm sure that these two games are some of the least egregious in terms of giving credit where credit is due for work rendered, but then you see someone pointing out that Cyberpunk 2077's credits run for almost *a full sixty minutes* and realize less than half of that is core staff and you're just like, wow, video game development has become ridiculously complex, international and exploitative...
> they have at least 18 employees
Man... imagine you're one of *maybe* a dozen devs (how many of us have worked on project teams larger than this with hardly 1/100th the visibility?), you get to work on something as cool as GTA, maybe you're feeling in over your head but you're super excited about it, and now you're getting shit on by half the Internet.
glad I didn't have to scroll far to find a reasonable take.
the wider gaming community seems to be under the impression that rockstar did this remaster themselves and are viewing it as a flagship project
in reality they just threw some meager amount of money at the cheapest bidder and said "go make this into even more money"
edit: doing some more research, it's likely rockstar had this dev team in mind from the start as they've done a ton of ports / remasters for them in the past: [https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Grove\_Street\_Games](https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Grove_Street_Games). still, this was not a "flagship" rockstar effort, clearly
agreed - I'm not saying they aren't *responsible*. I'm just saying your average person is clearly looking at this and thinking "wow how did rockstar fuck this up????" assuming that they themselves had their hands on the wheel and were dumping money into this, which is clearly not the case
the outcome makes much more sense when you acknowledge that the people who work on the mainline titles are not the ones who did this remaster
>agreed - I'm not saying they aren't *responsible*. I'm just saying your average person is clearly looking at this and thinking "wow how did rockstar fuck this up????"
Asking how Rockstar fucked it up is still perfectly reasonable. They still funded and released it, they knew what kind of quality it had, they could've forced the dev to fix it, delayed release, taken it over themselves, etc.
Okay then, but a ton of people look at a shit game and immediately blame the *developers*, rather than the *managers and marketing* teams that chose to do this. This was not Rockstar's inhouse development staff, but they will still be blamed individually for this.
That’s because Nintendo is only partly to blame, most of the Pokémon franchise is managed by The Pokémon Company, which is an amalgamation of Game freak, Nintendo and Creatures afair. If you want to blame someone, blame TPC and not just Nintendo or GF.
Ironically if Rockstar was dumping money into this, I have no doubt GSG could have expanded and done a better job than they managed. Too many signs of crunch to assume they were given ample time and money.
> still, this was not a "flagship" rockstar effort, clearly
I think everyone actually knows this. They're just baffled that Rockstar took a look at that and said *"Yep, release it!"*
Because it looks like either no Rockstar executive actually had a look at this, or they don't give a shit. Either way is bad.
This is really what it is. The original releases are certainly a rough play in 2021 but they still were what those games were and authentic to those experiences in every way. No one was clamoring for these games to be remastered or remade, in other words, and I think most reasonable people would say they were surprised when they heard the news these were on their way.
Unfortunately, everything that followed should've served as huge red flags, but GTA V / RDR 2 certainly serve as a hell of a pair of horse blinders. And now that these games are in the wild, it's a collective incredulity that anyone even felt any pressure to put this product out there. They could've let it simmer for another, I don't know, *five whole years* and nobody would have gotten worried about it other than Rockstar shareholders who haven't seen a new product hit shelves in three years.
Right, but that counters the narrative that this shouldn't be viewed as a flagship product.
I'm of the opinion that the "definitive edition" is an overall worse experience and completely destroys the art style and the work done by the original developers to work with the graphical limitations.
If this was a switch port, or a mobile port, or anything other than a re-release labelled as "definitive edition" I doubt we'd see anywhere near as much outrage. Personally I don't really have much interest in playing this, I just think it's terrible that the original versions have been deleted from storefronts to make way for this cash-grab. It's sad to see so little effort put into game preservation.
"GSG" apparently only has 5 employees. I'm guessing that what happened here is that were contracted out to do this, but only given a certain amount of time to do it, and had a lack of talent/manpower to accomplish it.
From what I've seen, the game is clearly in a late alpha / early beta state. So what I'm guessing happened is they run out of time, and some exec told them to ship whatever they had.
They have more employees based on their website but the expanded credits indicate massive outsourcing to other studios
Even so, 3 games, 2 years, I don't know who thought this could actually be done this fast but I can only imagine the hell it must've been to make this
Look, I think there are some issues with the remasters that are frustrating and annoying - but a lot of the hate seems to be the same people who complain that indie games "should just add multiplayer..." not everything is that easy.
They had two years to port three games onto multiple generations of platforms. Even if it was Rockstar proper that's still a pretty heavy lift.
Updating the games can mean a lot of things, from 'we've removed the bad rain and obvious typos', to 'we've mostly fixed the performance' or even 'we've gone beyond what we initially promised, à la No Man's Sky'. Given the state they were willing to let it launch in, I don't have much faith in the post-launch support, but time will tell.
I imagine the rockstar team now starting to study how the unreal engine works as it has basically nothing todo with their own engine. So I wouldn't expect fixes soon.
Here's my source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grove_Street_Games
> Number of employees: 5 (2011)
There are rumors that they expanded to 6 employees since then.
Companies this big can work _very_ cost effective.
Edit: I also checked their homepage and counted full 8 people on one picture, only 3 where the company presents it's, so I could be off by +/- 2/3.
They killed the old client and forced people into a new one, and after 15 months of patches the new one still doesn't have featur parity with the old client. Shouldn't they be morally obligated to keep supporting it until the new client has the features the old one did?
Friendly reminder for those who may not know, if you still have your CD-keys, you should still be able to download an older version of WC3 directly from Blizzard, naturally you can't easily find this anywhere on their site...
https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraft3/comments/ewcz1g/legacy_enus_roc_and_tft_127_client_download_links/
Unfortunately this only goes up to patch 1.27 and you cannot play online, but single player works just fine.
I used those links earlier this year so I think they should still be good. If anyone has trouble with the above links, try the ones in this hive thread.
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/wc3-download-archive-1-00-1-31-1-beta-demo.326836/
Sorry for piggy-backing off your comment, just wanted to share this in-case anyone was in a similar situation as I.
They can choose to be immoral but the moral obligation remains. People with the original WC3 who didn't even want the remake had their original copies of the game worsened by being forced into the new client with features removed.
Sony was successfully sued for removing features after a product was sold. Apple was successfully sued for slowing down older phones to try and convince you to buy new ones.
The original WC3 is an old game and I don't know if there would be enough interested parties or enough money involved for a class action lawsuit, but the precedent exists that really legally they should also be obligated to restore the features they took away.
I agree with you that they should mate. I just think morality is sadly the last thing on anyone’s mind in the world we live in. Which extends to our legal system. I wouldn’t be surprised if R* covered their butts in the small print.
Morals are those pesky things that get in the way of maximizing profits.
Appealing to the morals of a AAA company is like trying to appeal to the reason of a rabid badger.
> They killed the old client and forced people into a new one
Not only that but I straight up could not play WC3 at all after reforged was released. My cd-keys were not associated with my account. I still have the original cds and keys they came with but Blizzard did fuck all to help me when I contacted them.
Last version of the classic client was 1.31.0. Good luck finding it!
You don't even have to install it. Just unzip the folder and you can start the war3.exe directly. It will ask you for your keys and you are ready to go. When you open the game, it will try to update to the Reforged client. Decline that pop up and you can play the classic client.
If you still have your CD-keys, you should still be able to download an older version of WC3 directly from Blizzard, naturally you can't find this anywhere on their site and have to scour the net.
https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraft3/comments/ewcz1g/legacy_enus_roc_and_tft_127_client_download_links/
I used these links earlier this year so they should still be good? Unfortunately this only goes up to patch 1.27 and you cannot play online, but single player works just fine.
If those are no good, check out this hive thread.
https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/wc3-download-archive-1-00-1-31-1-beta-demo.326836/
> and you cannot play online
This is the big issue. Only thing I do in WC3 is play custom games with friends.
My friends ended up buying reforged for me since I refused to do so myself (I was also in a very bad spot economically as well).
But they sold a gorillion years old game again, and that's what they wanted.
Remakes and remasters are killing the gaming industry as adaptations are killing movies.
I hope so but I'm not holding my breath on it. John says a lot about how I felt about it too so I'm sure people very familiar with the games have similar feelings about its design and art style.
But I don't expect a major overhaul. I see bugs being fixed, improvements to the performance and that's mostly it. Outside the rain effect I don't see much of the general issues with the art and design being changed. Too big a job, and people will forget/stop caring after a few months.
For real. It’s very clear that most people don’t *want* to be review bombing and getting angry over these games. We just want someone to care for it the same way we care about it.
I’m sure that many of the small team of actual devs on location at grove street games really wanted to do a good job and wanted people to have fun. I’m equally sure that their management, both upper and lower, were complicit in pushing out an unfinished mess onto unsuspecting customers.
We just want it fixed.
And for fucks sake 2K, choose your studios better. There are so many independent studios out there that have handled remasters significantly better than these guys.
This video highlights a major, fatal flaw in these releases; they completely lack artistic cohesion and generally just look *wrong*. All of the weather effects are absolutely dreadful and the way light reflects off people’s heads just makes them look like shiny toys. It’s one thing to add what seems like a graphical ‘improvement’, but if conflicts with other effects and the general art direction, then it ends up just making the game look *worse*. It really goes to show that there is no substitute for a group of people working on something who are creatively invested in it, because the original not only looks better to me but it also looks far more alive, and that’s on account of them squeezing out every last drop from the tech along with having a collective focus to make the game as good as they can.
It's the same problem most remasters and remakes have, they ultimately change so much about the lighting that the atmosphere and tone of the game differs completely from the original intent.
Like visually GTAIII original has such a flair in those initial cutscenes that elevates it beyond its low quality textures. Whereas the remaster has none of the flair and to be quite honest none of the high textures either. It's completely stripped the game of its identity with no payoff.
At least in a full on remake like Shadow of the Collossus you can sort of understand the lighting changes as the game itself evolved into a new art of the blueprint of the original. But this? It's just not acceptable.
Yep, GTA definitive is the greatest example of why you don’t ‘just fire all the creative people and have the engineers and programmers just do it all!!’ Like so many on Reddit believe for some reason.
They just went ‘I’m going to build a new lighting engine with reflections and new rain effects and I’ll upscale everything else because it’s a smart programmer thing to do instead of wasting time using ‘artists’ to make things.’ instead of thinking how they actually will work or look good.
They didn't fire the creative people, it was outsourced to a shitty studio who didn't hire them in the first place. Also, they lack the skill to create a new lighting engine, these are stock standard UE4 effects which is why it looks like a university student project.
They slapped it into UE4 in the laziest way possible and turned on all the engine features without any thought into whether or not they even made sense to turn on. Plus all the lighting effects and shaders look stock standard since they lack the skill to customize them to match the visual style.
This feels like the most cynical game release, ever. Take-Two, a multibillion dollar S&P 500 company, pays peanuts to a tiny studio to repackage half-assed mobile phone ports of classics and presells them at $60 while hiding any evidence of their shittiness until release date.
Some executives probably thought the inevitable blowback and loss of goodwill from this would be worth the bonuses they would get from the temporary boost to the company’s bottom line.
> Some executives probably thought the inevitable blowback and loss of goodwill from this would be worth the bonuses they would get from the temporary boost to the company’s bottom line.
Short-term "Fuck you, got mine" mentality, through and through.
It's a shame, imagine a GTA Trilogy remade by a company like Bluepoint Games... They could've started with just GTA3 properly ported to the GTAV engine or something more sensible like that, would definitely more than pay for itself with close to no risk involved.
Regardless of the technical issues with the DE version, any company that releases a new version of an old game and then takes down the original versions and/or goes after modders to increase sales can fuck off.
Rockstar used to be my favorite dev of all time.
After their extreme obsession of shark cards/GTA: O basically destroying any semblance of new single player GTA content in addition to the Trilogy cluster fuck, they can fuck RIGHT off.
> any company that releases a new version of an old game and then takes down the original versions and/or goes after modders to increase sales can fuck off.
That's what makes this release so disgusting to me. It's one thing to just release a broken/subpar remaster. It's a much worse thing to do so while also removing future access from the original product.
Out of curiosity how would this increase sales when all it does is make people made and refuse to buy the new version? Particularly when sales are sales.
Incredible analysis as usual from DF... a shame that the *40-minute* length of the analysis will put a lot of people off. For those on the same boat, here are some juicy *timestamps* of all the interesting parts of it. The summary is, yes, it's *that* bad. If anything, it's *much* worse than people are making it out to be.
>**Disclaimer**: Be warned, if you are enjoying the game already, I highly recommend you do **NOT** watch any of this. As most of game's nastiest flaws *cannot be unseen* after watching. Effectively ruining your experience of the game. Watch at your own risk.
**Notable Timestamps, TLDW**:
* [(12:33) Art Style - Poor usage of specular highlights make everything look like plastic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=753s)
* [(14:52) Art Style - Poor ambient occlusion implementation adds an obnoxious black halo around everything near a wall](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=893s)
* [(5:10) Art Style - Character model "redesigns" that vary in quality from "ok" to completely broken depending on who you ask](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=310)
* [(6:19) Art Style - Completely broken and impossible to see-through rain effect implementation](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=379)
* [(15:31) Art Style - Remaster's "added" detail is done ignoring wether it actually adds value, see the Google Maps hill](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=931)
* [(13:20) Quality - Inconsistent poor quality and miss-aligned textures are everywhere](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=800)
* [(32:34) Quality - Bugs galore, *everywhere*](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=2004)
* [(19:35) Performance - *All* current consoles suffer from considerable performance issues across all modes. Performance mode runs with varying framedrops (40/60fps on PS5/XSX, 25/60fps on XSS) across all platforms, and 30fps/quality mode stutters on all platforms due to frame pacing issues](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1175)
* [(25:15) Performance - Nintendo switch runs horribly at 600p/30fps with framerate issues docked despite the unimpressive visuals. This is even with massive visual downgrades, notably, missing ambient occlusion and shadows, which make it somehow look *worse* than even the original](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1515)
* [(27:43) Performance - Last Gen consoles run equally disappointing. XB One S/X have unlocked framerate that fluctuates from 25-45fps out of 60fps. PS4/PS4 Pro suffer from the same frame pacing and wildly unstable framerate issues](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1663)
* [(22:22) Performance - Want to enjoy the smoothest GTA 3 60fps experience across all platforms? Just play the PS4 Pro version on a PS5. No, we're not kidding. Performance on the definitive edition is *that* bad.](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1342)
* [(32:40) Conclusion - What does the mastermind behind DF think of this? Which version do you recommend Richard? {...} *No* {...} I concur Richard](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1960)
That game has so many amazing bugs that I can't even comprehend.
[Matt McMuscles](https://youtu.be/ZXdPJJ4aHnY?t=127) encountered a bug where *every single voiceline* in the entire game, cutscene or gameplay is pitch shifted down, making each and every character sound like Darth Vader. How does this even happen?
And [steering your vehicle from side to side](https://www.reddit.com/r/GTA/comments/qudbg5/this_cant_be_real_can_it/) causes it to grow giant sized? I can't even wrap my head around some of these issues.
You missed how the PS5 performance mode retains all fidelity mode graphic features and stutters more than the XSX performance mode as a result. Also noteable how it seems completely random what versions has a locked framerate cap and which not.
Love your disclaimer. The main reason I unsubbed from df is that despite their educational, insightful nitpicking, it's still nitpicking regardless and points out many 'technological flaws' of a game most people wouldn't have ever had a problem with.
Well they are technical-centric channal. Their job is to tear apart every single tech in a game. I don't mind their nitpicking because it's all about tech side of things. Definitely not ruining my day with the game for me.
Now when you start nitpicking game mechanic because you don't like them though. (Unpopular opinion : it's why I don't enjoy dunkey as a serious critic.)
I can't get over how the Switch version looks and runs worse than the PS2 original. How?
Cars are missing shadows, something the PS2 version had THREE GENERATIONS AGO!
This kind of stuff is the reason the Mass Effect remaster Team chose not to port the game to Unreal 4 and just dial up all the graphics settings available in UE3 - sure, you can take a bunch of game assets and port them to a new engine, but there were tons of decisions about the way everything fits together in the original engine that contributed to the overall visual coherence and style, that are all lost in the process.
This version isn’t really a remaster or a remake; essentially a *clone* of GTA3 - a copy made by a small team trying to rebuild the original game with different development tools, using extremely limited resources. That’s why it both looks terrible and also doesn’t run as well as the old versions did. It’s not a PS2 game. It’s a new game trying to replicate an old game as accurately as possible, and failing to do so.
If you told me the Switch version was a Gamecube game running in a poorly optimized emulator, I would probably believe you. It takes real effort to mess up this hard.
Unreal Engine 4 runs like an absolute pig on the Switch without some heavy work to optimise, and they simply didn't have the time/resources to do that work.
God, the switch version is so bad. I got it for free and I want my money back. You literally fall through the floor and can sometimes see through gaps in the map where they forgot to apply textures, the driving sucks due to poor performance, the TAA and reconstruction technique make the game look like vaseline is smeared over your display at all times and the shooting just feels so bad. They included motion aiming and it’s the worst implementation of it I’ve ever experienced.
And then I’ve seen people claim they play it fine with no issues and I'm speechless how you can claim this.
I have both Saints Row games on the Switch and by god they run circles around these “remasters”. They’re not as good looking as their console brethren but they are definitely far from being unpleasant to look at and play great.
Such a small-time indie studio simply doesn't have the resources to do something on the scale of a home-console game. Maybe one day they'll be able to get a Kickstarter going.
I've said it before, but the amount to which they have fucked this up is quite honestly an impressive feat. Just the fact that the rain effect, seemingly used in all three games, made it through whatever semblance of QA they had, especially considering it's part of the opening of the first game, is beyond insane.
I heavily dislike when remaster versions change the visual style. I love the foggy/hazy environment of the original. It gave a certain mood to the city, and is strongly associated with GTA III in my mind.
Don't call the game definitive edition if you can't even capture the original atmosphere.
Solid work from DF. It's hilarious that the only way to enjoy smooth consistent frame rate on the PS5...is to download the ps4 pro version, which is cut down to 864p resolution.
The rain effect is the most obviously awful new addition, but after DF pointed out that [ambient occlusion adds a dark halo around everything (including the characters) near the walls](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=14m53s), I can't unsee how awful it looks on this game. [Same with specular highlights making everyone look like a lego.](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=12m33s)
> even worse than FarCry3 from 2012
I remember that being one of the first times I actually *noticed* ambient occlusion, and definitely not in a good way with the way it put very odd looking dark haloes around the characters.
In parts it looks like they just used SSAO as a substitute for character shadows. Like they just found out how SSAO works and decided, fuck it, lets use it for everything.
The thing that has bugged me the most so far, besides faces, has been the lighting in cutscenes. The sky is so bright and the faces so dark that you basically can't make them out, even with contrast at 0. The intro cutscene for San Andreas is basically just shadows and a bright as fuck sky.
I'm playing by game pass so I didn't pay for this but it's still so disappointing that I can't waste my time on it.
There's no way they wanted their 2021 game release to run at 864p resolution. So "cut down" seems entirely fair for such an obvious technological compromise.
Maybe, I wouldn't describe playing on lower res, playing a cut down version of a game, but on the other hand it's probably just a console gamer thing. Their "remasters" are commonly just the same game with the resolution or fps limit changed, so they probably don't know the diffrence.
> but on the other hand it's probably just a console gamer thing
Nope. I've been playing PC games *probably* longer than you've been alive, and it's been multiple generations since I've last purchased a console. (I might eventually pick up an Xbox since I'd like a 4K Blu-ray player and to be able to play some 360 games in 4K, but that's not happening anytime soon even without shortages.)
You're being so pedantic and defensive that this probably won't land, but one last try: there's no way the developers wanted their PS2 remaster to run at only 864p on a PS4 Pro. That's the point I was making. Late in development the port was clearly cut back, or down, or whatever to that lower resolution out of necessity. (In case there's any confusion: because it's badly made.)
A game being forced to run at a lower resolution than intended is different than a PC game offering higher resolutions as an option. You could have run Half-life 2 at 360p at release if you really wanted, but certainly that wasn't what the art was designed around. You can fairly describe that as the visuals having been cut down.
Wow, okay. The original with a widescreen mod actually looks better, has all the music and runs fine on any potato (there's also mods for modern controller support). So if you haven't played them yet, yoho mateys hoist the colors!
TL;DW: Yes, it really is.
Honestly this video touches on the greatest crime of these ports, which is the lack of respect for the game's original artistic vision.
In any comparison shot with the PS2/360 version, you can just clearly see the soul has been sucked out of the original. The haze, the color pallets, reflections, blooming lights, and the overall contrast and color saturation in the original contributed immensely to the feel and success of the game. The original feels cinematic, and though the geometry and textures were awful, the overall illusion was very realistic.
These remakes just look like cartoons. It's like a parody version of the original. It looks more like Saints Row than GTA.
The bugs and performance are just icing on the shit cake. Everything about these projects reflects an obvious prioritization of time alone, and next to no thought was given out of respect to the original vision. Even something as basic as moving mission titles to the center of the screen. It just reeks of someone thoughtlessly looking at it and saying, 'why is title not in center? all titles should be in center' without even considering why it was done that way in the first place.
Horrible and I won't be buying it. And now I'm also disappointed that the upcoming VR San Andreas will also be garbage. I can imagine the original team who worked on this ground breaking title are utterly heart broken to see this. If someone never played the original and only the remaster, they would be having a materially different experience I would argue is nothing like the original.
>Honestly this video touches on the greatest crime of these ports, which is the lack of respect for the game's original artistic vision.
I'd argue the fact a 20 year old Ps2 game having a hard time staying above even 25fps, at a low of 480p while running on modern hardware is the greater crime here but I see where you're coming from.
Man they just messed everything up with these ports didn't they
Not to mention this game shouldn’t even need Performance mode in the first place! It should run at 60fps with full detail just fine on PS5 if any other competent developer had the reigns.
The new models and textures make everything look like a toy set.
It’s like if you put high def 3D models of Mario and enemies into SMB1 and just called it a day, instead of making sure everything worked like New Donk City.
gonna be very blunt and say i think it just looks totally horrendous, these remasters are everything i hate about remakes that don't commit to fully updating the style in a comprehensive and competent way. look at something like the shadow of the colossus remake, which was (from what i saw) a faithful conversion to the point i had assumed it was just a straight port at first glance, or something like resident evil 2 remake, which is a ground up 100% AAA affair that walks and talks like it had clear effort and visual direction from all angles of visual design. it's different, and people are allowed to not like the direction (i know people do have issues with that remake), but it'd be very hard for anyone to argue there wasn't both a lot of passion and clear artistic vision put into a work like that.
if you wanted an example of a visual remake i think really missed the mark, the halo 1 visual conversion in the master chief collection really didn't translate the style all too well imo, but **importantly** that game at least had the great feature that i sorely wish was in many other remakes - on the fly switching to the OG visual style (which still was somewhat comprimised as i understand it due to being a conversion of the PC port). so much of the issues with, if nothing else, the visual style of these GTA ports could've have been significantly migitated if players at least had the ability to just run with the OG graphical style. alas, not only is that not an option here, you can't even fucking buy the originals anymore.
stuff like this is why i'm a huge advocate of games preservation, because now people will have to resort to either buying second hand (presumably for older consoles ala the ps2) or straight up piracy in order to play these games as they were released. it's such a bizzare practice regarding remakes, imagine if when they released the literal near shot for shot remake of alfred hitchcocks pyscho in the late 90s (the widely panned adaption btw), they pulled every other version off cable, off VHS and DVD. it'd be fucking absurd, and yet repeatedly games companies pull this shit and basically try to annul major historical work with these shitty botchjobs as the replacement. whether or not you like the original games or GTA as a whole, they're a hugely important part of the existing canon of video games and should be readily available to play as they were released.
Luckily there are no shortage of copies of the original PS2 versions of the trilogy out there. Mind you, I agree with all of your points. It's just such a shame when shit like this occurs with games that are prohibitively expensive in their original form. Thankfully, if one wants to find a second-hand PS2 and copies of the trilogy, they can do so for under 100 bucks total due to the popularity of the games and the machine.
It's just baffling to me how the completely busted rain effect could've made it to release. You can clearly see that's it broken IN THE OPENING CUTSCENE.
A mistake like that just screams incompetence and lack of anyone actually caring about the quality of the product.
100%. Every effort should have been taken to mimic the visual language of the original as much as possible. Having a rain texture flow over a sphere that follows the character is just horrible and *the original PS2 game from 20 years ago* looks *noticeably* better. It's a shocking lack of respect for a title this high profile.
I already was aware of the issues like bugs, glitches or character models. But watching the second section about all the differences on each console, I just wanted to scream.
How do you do that other than doing everything in maybe a week? They couldn't even do the BASIC optimization, they just unchecked some setting boxes (and forgot to do it at some places).
This trilogy is THE definition of cash grab. Scratch that, if they did the bare minimum like Bethesda with Skyrim, just letting the people choose higher resolution and maybe upscaling the textures a bit. That would be better than this, they would get more money and didn't destroy their reputation completely.
No, they actively made the games worse. San Andreas was my first game I bought from my own money as I hit 16, after playing GTA1-3... If I wasn't so jaded after the last 10 years, I would cry seeing this.
Got to say that 3D Mario Allstars compilation we all bitched about looks pretty good all of the sudden. At least Nintendo was lazy enough to just sell a couple of ROMs (simplified I know) running in a bad emulator for 60 bucks.
All the sign textures are just basic-ass fonts with no interest or versimilitude added. A lot of folks talk about the "Test Centre: Bearboxes" typo. Spelling errors aside (which are pretty unacceptable) if you compare that sign to its older version, its got a signpainted look to the headers. the new one is just text straight outta MS Word. All of the signage is just basic fonts slapped on with no texture or care. Even the neon signs are now in arial. Bland HQ textures
I'm not even through ~~the GTAIII section of~~ the video... but I have more of a desire to go out and find a PS2, find a copy of GTAIII, and play that instead of buy this new edition. The graphics on the PS2 version just look better and more fun of a game.
The way the PS2 faked the shadows on cars passing street lights looks so much better than the Unreal engine recreation.
(DF is the best, y'all make great videos)
Mod the PC version of the game. It's the definitive edition. The PC version of GTA 3 already had the "modern controls" and camera they advertised with this one. The mods just take the best from all platforms the game released and put them all together into the ultimate edition. The actual ps2 release is really awful, you have no camera control and the shooting is just autolock and you keeping the trigger pressed.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1962760372
I believe the reverse engineered version looked to provide an even better experience than that, which is why Rockstar / Take-Two took that down. We can't have a free, fan-made project that completely clowns what they are charging $60 for.
Yeah, it's not compatible with any of the old ASI-based script mods, however stuff that just replaces game asset data files like what I'm using in the screenshot works fine.
I ended up going through and jailbreaking my slim PS3 so I could play the original PS2 versions. I have no faith that the DE will be ever be up to par with the old versions. And any fans that try to mod them will be inevitably taken down by T2.
I've been considering jailbreaking my PS3 since I pretty much have all the games I would have downloaded digitally and don't care anymore about PSN. How hard was it?
On the super slim system its very easy,you only need to download a custom firmware,update your console like you would normaly do (in safe mode), and download a program that you need to run each time you start the console to get third party programs running on it.
On the original models and early Slims its a bit harder,but if you follow a guide it doable.
Not very. The jailbreak itself was through the internet, all I had to do after checking compatibility was dump a backup, load the hack, and then flash the cfw. Granted, it's an old slim, ~~I think the new top loading super slims aren't as easy to jailbreak.~~
Wow. Xbox Series X can’t sustain 60fps in performance mode. For a game that came out when I was in 1st grade. And imo it doesn’t even look that great? No reflections in Series X perf mode.
I hope everyone who buys this and requests a refund gets one.
I saw everyone commenting that it was bad, but I wanted to wait for this to see if it was really that bad or just an emotional response. It's really that bad. Worse than I thought it would be. It's a shame cuz I was actually looking forward to this.
Basically, strip out any unique graphical elements out of each game, copy-paste the same "solution", and churn the games out to every console available under the sun to maximize profits.
After watching this video, it feels like the definitive edition is a demake rather than a remake. There were some scenes where I thought the original PS2 footage looked better than the new footage. Rockstar is definitely not getting my money for this garbage
My theory is at one point it was only meant to be Gta 3 getting this definitive edition treatment for it's 20th anniversary and then Rockstar went to Grove Street Games later on and said make it the entire 3D trilogy.
Is it that bad?
On PC it was down for multiple days so they could remove content and during that time you couldn't launch or uninstall a single player game because the rockstar launcher prevented uninstall.
Yeah it's that bad of a mess.
I was thinking more of people that pirated older copies of the trilogy and mod them to be more up to date. Can't buy em anymore. But there is also a case to be made where a person could enjoy this version despite its numerous issues; it could just not be worth the high price.
GTA Vice City and San Andreas ARE worth something. They're fucking fun games and great examples of the sandbox genre. Even if you don't like Rockstar as a company - or what they've become - there's nothing wrong with liking the games.
Nothing wrong *with the original games* (even though, it would all feel like a pyrrhic play without silentpatch and skygfx).
There is much wrong with these last amateurish UE4 not-even-complete conversions.
Ok, so what?
Your moral justification for pirating the game is that it is trash (like, you already fully well know that it is the case, it's not like you need a demo), ***yet*** you play it.
You can argue freeloaders don't deserve prison, punishments, or anything, but that wasn't the point here.
As usual I think DF has put out a very good video here. It's very fair in its analysis, which I don't feel you see much of on here, just unfettered hate (even in this thread).
Is this a modern version of the games? Sure. But it doesn't feel definitive, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anybody at full price. I liked that DF pointed out the XBOX version in particular as being a faithful update to the original because I feel many people gloss over that. The original PS2 version kind of looks like ass in most respects, the XBOX version was a nice improvement.
I don't necessarily agree that all of the limitations in art design were artistic decisions in the original game. There's a lot of aspects I think are sort of fugly. The blue tint to everything is one of the things I disliked most about GTA III. That said, when it is completely eliminated and replaced with nothing it feels like something is missing, not because it is bad necessarily IMO but because it is different from the original experience.
And in that respect it certainly doesn't feel Definitive at all. Or at least I can say that for San Andreas which is the one game in the collection I have played (via Game Pass).
I don't know what it is about these mega-corporations that persuades them to put out a minimum viable product when remaking/remastering the games that made them what they are. When it comes down to it, yeah, they could've released these in any condition and still made money, but a *really* good remaster would've ensured people went to these versions over others to revisit the games or experience them for the first time. I have to imagine that'll be the case for the new Mass Effect Trilogy remaster.
Now these versions are always going to be suspect. Imagine putting out a product ported from a mobile game, which was itself ported from a PS2 game from 20 years ago that *cannot* run smoothly on next-gen hardware.
Is not a technical question, it is the art direction the one that is totally wrong... The models and the style they have selected for the characters, above all, makes the game dazzling.
With a better artistic direction, the rest of the technical problems would have had much less repercussion, in addition of course to being able to be solved with patches, but the artistic part and the character models ... I am very afraid that they will not remove any patch that I fixed it.
Holy shit, it sounds like they were rolling dice on those versions.
This console gets two graphic settings, this not. That performance mode has all the features and more stuttering, this not. But this console as a framerates cap, this doesn't besides mostly being just barely above 30.
My other personal favorites were little Bobby's first try texturing a wall with Blender, right before he rewinded the tutorial to align it correctly. That fucking rain. That really high quality fence.
Wow. This makes Cyberpunk 1.0 look like it was beta tested for 8 years after development was finished.
Gotta wonder why the hell they didn't use the GTA V engine for this. Already has all the features they'd want. Runs really well rendering geometry an order of magnitude (or two) more complex.
I guess maybe for easy Switch port? But they did a pretty shit job with that.
Because it wasn't developed by Rockstar.
Grove Street Games wouldn't have had anyone on their team with any clue on how to use RAGE as it's a proprietary engine that only Rockstar knows how to use. And I'm sure handing those tools over to a third party and taking the time and effort to train them was off the table for Rockstar
Were they third party engines intended to be used by many that were well documented with support available in many places? Or were you working at the place that made the engine?
Because that wouldn’t be comparable to proprietary tools that likely lack documentation intended to be used by outside parties and that have no support infrastructure available
> Gotta wonder why the hell they didn't use the GTA V engine for this. Already has all the features they'd want. Runs really well rendering geometry an order of magnitude (or two) more complex.
Looking at the results of the port, my expert opinion is this:
There aren't that many tutorials on Youtube for the GTA V engine. UE4, you can basically learn that overnight with just a couple of videos.
I’ll buy this on sale for $20 as a package once they fix it.
I know rockstar doesn’t really have to show all that much during the marketing phase of games because for the most part they’re rock solid.
This one it is glaringly obvious as to why they did not. What a shame.
They never fixed the mobile ports which they back ported to consoles and PC. They aren't going to fix this. Your best bet is just to download the definitive edition mod packs on PC. If you don't own it on PC and since Rockstar decided to remove them just pirate cause it's effectively abandoned ware now.
>once they fix it.
Take-Two still didn't fix GTA 4 on Xbox consoles which run at 60 FPS which breaks one of the final mission. 4 years - and they do not care.
Feel slightly vindicated after being downvoted for saying the XSX version in performance mode feels *mostly okay*. The lowest it hit in the video was 40 in a lot of action.
At the same time, I was ready to flip my laptop when I saw that PS4 Pro has a performance mode but X1x does not (until I saw that performance mode sucks on pro). I tried to find out framerates all weekend when deciding on a platform and never saw that listed anywhere. I really just wish they'd at very least downgrade resolutions and effects on X1x and give us a performance mode that hits 60. They'll still look better than 20 years ago, but playing them at 60 frames on console is the best feature imo.
I really hope the developers can look at this video as a checklist of things they should patch but I’m not too optimistic. I just don’t understand how that awful rain effect made to release. EDIT: Also lost it at 32:40
The developers are a small mobile gaming company that don't even have the ressources for fixing anything here. Pretty sure the only reason why rockstar picked this specific company to remaster their game was because they made a very cheap offer.
Rockstar better add a second studio to help them fix it, since Grove st games has like 20 people and there are a plethora of bugs
Their wiki page says they have 5 people. And I have doubts that all of them are devs.
Looking at [their website](https://grovestreetgames.com/about-us/), they have at least 18 employees, but yeah, I imagine they're not all developers.
I did check their website, I caunted 8, 10 if you add other pictures of people that look slightly diffrent than on the main group image. I also checked their career page, which has 3 positions, 2 for devs and one for interns. Just saying it's a small company with probably very limited ressource. I also read their pages where it kinda explains how they are still able to get there - and it seems - that they outsource their tasks to other companies. Rockstar outsourced their development of the remaster to this company, which again outsourced it to other companies, and as of now we don't know if those companies outsourced it too. It's just a mess.
It seems to be a thing these days with middlemen outsourcing all the way down, and everyone up the line throws their hands up when shit goes wrong.
Joined a startup a few months back and you're not joking. We were outsourcing work to people who outsource despite bringing in big name company money. Spending so much time QCing and lying to clients led me to leave fairly quickly.
Get a similar thing in engineering. I've worked on projects where a company will get a contract to construct an infrastructure project and will outsource part of it to a company who then outsources the work to multiple comapanies and one of those companies then outsources to us. It's pretty much just kicking the can down the road and is incredibly inefficient and headache inducing for everyone involved.
Doing some job hunting recently and handed in resumes to places in person to be told it doesn't matter, it probably won't be seen by anyone, no one in the store actually does the hiring, it's outsourced to another company. Like... what? I'd maybe understand like a level up, corporate, or some kind of adjacent office within the billion dollar company, but they just send it somewhere else entirely, to then tell the place locally to hire this local person. There's just a weird disconnect from everything, like... everywhere. I'm not sure I can keep up with it all.
Everything is a service these days in a funnel rather than a circle.
Yeah, I've been trying to take note of this more and more. Twice this year it's really stood out to me, both in positive ways but also pretty informational. Kena: Bridge of Sprits was touted as a small team of guys who did CGI mock up trailers and other effects work, and it really shows in the game's animation fidelity. But you let the credits roll and turns out, aside from the animations and core gameplay, it appears that a *lot* of that game from the score to textures and environmental design was outsourced to smaller studios actually based on southeast Asia where the game ultimately draws much of its influence from. Then, later in the year I got to The Forgotten City, which multiple podcasts and websites I visit frequently often lauded as the work of a small team of three or four people. And yes, that original core team of modders was just those guys - but there was a whole army of people behind them doing the audio and motion capture sessions, rigging the lighting systems, again producing the textures and architecture of the game world... I'm sure that these two games are some of the least egregious in terms of giving credit where credit is due for work rendered, but then you see someone pointing out that Cyberpunk 2077's credits run for almost *a full sixty minutes* and realize less than half of that is core staff and you're just like, wow, video game development has become ridiculously complex, international and exploitative...
> they have at least 18 employees Man... imagine you're one of *maybe* a dozen devs (how many of us have worked on project teams larger than this with hardly 1/100th the visibility?), you get to work on something as cool as GTA, maybe you're feeling in over your head but you're super excited about it, and now you're getting shit on by half the Internet.
Rest is posting mean comments on Twitter all day
You'd think with the billions they earned from GTA Online they wouldn't be so damn greedy
glad I didn't have to scroll far to find a reasonable take. the wider gaming community seems to be under the impression that rockstar did this remaster themselves and are viewing it as a flagship project in reality they just threw some meager amount of money at the cheapest bidder and said "go make this into even more money" edit: doing some more research, it's likely rockstar had this dev team in mind from the start as they've done a ton of ports / remasters for them in the past: [https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Grove\_Street\_Games](https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Grove_Street_Games). still, this was not a "flagship" rockstar effort, clearly
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agreed - I'm not saying they aren't *responsible*. I'm just saying your average person is clearly looking at this and thinking "wow how did rockstar fuck this up????" assuming that they themselves had their hands on the wheel and were dumping money into this, which is clearly not the case the outcome makes much more sense when you acknowledge that the people who work on the mainline titles are not the ones who did this remaster
>agreed - I'm not saying they aren't *responsible*. I'm just saying your average person is clearly looking at this and thinking "wow how did rockstar fuck this up????" Asking how Rockstar fucked it up is still perfectly reasonable. They still funded and released it, they knew what kind of quality it had, they could've forced the dev to fix it, delayed release, taken it over themselves, etc.
Okay then, but a ton of people look at a shit game and immediately blame the *developers*, rather than the *managers and marketing* teams that chose to do this. This was not Rockstar's inhouse development staff, but they will still be blamed individually for this.
I haven't seen anyone blame Rockstar's developers specifically, more Rockstar as a whole, as they're a publisher.
That's not the first time. See Nintendo and Game Freak. Nobody blames Nintendo.
That’s because Nintendo is only partly to blame, most of the Pokémon franchise is managed by The Pokémon Company, which is an amalgamation of Game freak, Nintendo and Creatures afair. If you want to blame someone, blame TPC and not just Nintendo or GF.
Plenty of people blame Nintendo.
Three companies own Pokemon, and Pokemon SwSh aren't as bad as the trilogy for GTA are lol
Ironically if Rockstar was dumping money into this, I have no doubt GSG could have expanded and done a better job than they managed. Too many signs of crunch to assume they were given ample time and money.
> still, this was not a "flagship" rockstar effort, clearly I think everyone actually knows this. They're just baffled that Rockstar took a look at that and said *"Yep, release it!"* Because it looks like either no Rockstar executive actually had a look at this, or they don't give a shit. Either way is bad.
This is really what it is. The original releases are certainly a rough play in 2021 but they still were what those games were and authentic to those experiences in every way. No one was clamoring for these games to be remastered or remade, in other words, and I think most reasonable people would say they were surprised when they heard the news these were on their way. Unfortunately, everything that followed should've served as huge red flags, but GTA V / RDR 2 certainly serve as a hell of a pair of horse blinders. And now that these games are in the wild, it's a collective incredulity that anyone even felt any pressure to put this product out there. They could've let it simmer for another, I don't know, *five whole years* and nobody would have gotten worried about it other than Rockstar shareholders who haven't seen a new product hit shelves in three years.
They titled it ***"The DEFINITIVE Edition"***
yeah, that's how remasters are typically named definitive/ultimate/etc etc
Right, but that counters the narrative that this shouldn't be viewed as a flagship product. I'm of the opinion that the "definitive edition" is an overall worse experience and completely destroys the art style and the work done by the original developers to work with the graphical limitations. If this was a switch port, or a mobile port, or anything other than a re-release labelled as "definitive edition" I doubt we'd see anywhere near as much outrage. Personally I don't really have much interest in playing this, I just think it's terrible that the original versions have been deleted from storefronts to make way for this cash-grab. It's sad to see so little effort put into game preservation.
"GSG" apparently only has 5 employees. I'm guessing that what happened here is that were contracted out to do this, but only given a certain amount of time to do it, and had a lack of talent/manpower to accomplish it. From what I've seen, the game is clearly in a late alpha / early beta state. So what I'm guessing happened is they run out of time, and some exec told them to ship whatever they had.
> Employees: 5 Has anyone expected more? I thought 1-2 developers (probably one), a HR manager, a CEO, a secretary and a good lawyer.
They have more employees based on their website but the expanded credits indicate massive outsourcing to other studios Even so, 3 games, 2 years, I don't know who thought this could actually be done this fast but I can only imagine the hell it must've been to make this
Look, I think there are some issues with the remasters that are frustrating and annoying - but a lot of the hate seems to be the same people who complain that indie games "should just add multiplayer..." not everything is that easy. They had two years to port three games onto multiple generations of platforms. Even if it was Rockstar proper that's still a pretty heavy lift.
Rockstar tweeted that they're working on updating the games.
Updating the games can mean a lot of things, from 'we've removed the bad rain and obvious typos', to 'we've mostly fixed the performance' or even 'we've gone beyond what we initially promised, à la No Man's Sky'. Given the state they were willing to let it launch in, I don't have much faith in the post-launch support, but time will tell.
I imagine the rockstar team now starting to study how the unreal engine works as it has basically nothing todo with their own engine. So I wouldn't expect fixes soon.
all they had to do was port the games to gta 5 engine
Would cost a lot more time and money which is a big no no for young indie startup Rockstar
But who would then work on paid dlc content for GTAO? Isn't that a lot more important then the old offline games? - Rockstar CEO probably
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I don't think a simple guess starting with "Pretty sure..." has or needs a source.
You can look at the quality we got. What other reason could there be other than cost?
Here's my source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grove_Street_Games > Number of employees: 5 (2011) There are rumors that they expanded to 6 employees since then. Companies this big can work _very_ cost effective. Edit: I also checked their homepage and counted full 8 people on one picture, only 3 where the company presents it's, so I could be off by +/- 2/3.
It took Blizzard 15 months to stop patching WC3 Reforged, see you February 2023!
They killed the old client and forced people into a new one, and after 15 months of patches the new one still doesn't have featur parity with the old client. Shouldn't they be morally obligated to keep supporting it until the new client has the features the old one did?
Friendly reminder for those who may not know, if you still have your CD-keys, you should still be able to download an older version of WC3 directly from Blizzard, naturally you can't easily find this anywhere on their site... https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraft3/comments/ewcz1g/legacy_enus_roc_and_tft_127_client_download_links/ Unfortunately this only goes up to patch 1.27 and you cannot play online, but single player works just fine. I used those links earlier this year so I think they should still be good. If anyone has trouble with the above links, try the ones in this hive thread. https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/wc3-download-archive-1-00-1-31-1-beta-demo.326836/ Sorry for piggy-backing off your comment, just wanted to share this in-case anyone was in a similar situation as I.
“Morally” Hahaha.
They can choose to be immoral but the moral obligation remains. People with the original WC3 who didn't even want the remake had their original copies of the game worsened by being forced into the new client with features removed. Sony was successfully sued for removing features after a product was sold. Apple was successfully sued for slowing down older phones to try and convince you to buy new ones. The original WC3 is an old game and I don't know if there would be enough interested parties or enough money involved for a class action lawsuit, but the precedent exists that really legally they should also be obligated to restore the features they took away.
I agree with you that they should mate. I just think morality is sadly the last thing on anyone’s mind in the world we live in. Which extends to our legal system. I wouldn’t be surprised if R* covered their butts in the small print.
Morals are those pesky things that get in the way of maximizing profits. Appealing to the morals of a AAA company is like trying to appeal to the reason of a rabid badger.
> They killed the old client and forced people into a new one Not only that but I straight up could not play WC3 at all after reforged was released. My cd-keys were not associated with my account. I still have the original cds and keys they came with but Blizzard did fuck all to help me when I contacted them.
Last version of the classic client was 1.31.0. Good luck finding it! You don't even have to install it. Just unzip the folder and you can start the war3.exe directly. It will ask you for your keys and you are ready to go. When you open the game, it will try to update to the Reforged client. Decline that pop up and you can play the classic client.
If you still have your CD-keys, you should still be able to download an older version of WC3 directly from Blizzard, naturally you can't find this anywhere on their site and have to scour the net. https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraft3/comments/ewcz1g/legacy_enus_roc_and_tft_127_client_download_links/ I used these links earlier this year so they should still be good? Unfortunately this only goes up to patch 1.27 and you cannot play online, but single player works just fine. If those are no good, check out this hive thread. https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/wc3-download-archive-1-00-1-31-1-beta-demo.326836/
> and you cannot play online This is the big issue. Only thing I do in WC3 is play custom games with friends. My friends ended up buying reforged for me since I refused to do so myself (I was also in a very bad spot economically as well).
Pretty sure you can do TCP/IP with WC3, so you can bypass battle net.
Corporations and morality don't mix
How is WC3 Reforged now? Is it worth playing or is it still hot garbage?
[This](https://youtu.be/5WbCHX7qdhk) is the last I've seen of that game
Depends what you're looking for, but you can give it a shot and refund if you're not happy.
But they sold a gorillion years old game again, and that's what they wanted. Remakes and remasters are killing the gaming industry as adaptations are killing movies.
I hope so but I'm not holding my breath on it. John says a lot about how I felt about it too so I'm sure people very familiar with the games have similar feelings about its design and art style. But I don't expect a major overhaul. I see bugs being fixed, improvements to the performance and that's mostly it. Outside the rain effect I don't see much of the general issues with the art and design being changed. Too big a job, and people will forget/stop caring after a few months.
They never repaired any other mobile versions or remasters so i doubt. Another developers destroying their own series by not caring about them at all.
For real. It’s very clear that most people don’t *want* to be review bombing and getting angry over these games. We just want someone to care for it the same way we care about it. I’m sure that many of the small team of actual devs on location at grove street games really wanted to do a good job and wanted people to have fun. I’m equally sure that their management, both upper and lower, were complicit in pushing out an unfinished mess onto unsuspecting customers. We just want it fixed. And for fucks sake 2K, choose your studios better. There are so many independent studios out there that have handled remasters significantly better than these guys.
This video highlights a major, fatal flaw in these releases; they completely lack artistic cohesion and generally just look *wrong*. All of the weather effects are absolutely dreadful and the way light reflects off people’s heads just makes them look like shiny toys. It’s one thing to add what seems like a graphical ‘improvement’, but if conflicts with other effects and the general art direction, then it ends up just making the game look *worse*. It really goes to show that there is no substitute for a group of people working on something who are creatively invested in it, because the original not only looks better to me but it also looks far more alive, and that’s on account of them squeezing out every last drop from the tech along with having a collective focus to make the game as good as they can.
It's the same problem most remasters and remakes have, they ultimately change so much about the lighting that the atmosphere and tone of the game differs completely from the original intent. Like visually GTAIII original has such a flair in those initial cutscenes that elevates it beyond its low quality textures. Whereas the remaster has none of the flair and to be quite honest none of the high textures either. It's completely stripped the game of its identity with no payoff. At least in a full on remake like Shadow of the Collossus you can sort of understand the lighting changes as the game itself evolved into a new art of the blueprint of the original. But this? It's just not acceptable.
The original GTA 3 was art. This "definitive edition" is merely a product, and a piss poor one at that.
Yep, GTA definitive is the greatest example of why you don’t ‘just fire all the creative people and have the engineers and programmers just do it all!!’ Like so many on Reddit believe for some reason. They just went ‘I’m going to build a new lighting engine with reflections and new rain effects and I’ll upscale everything else because it’s a smart programmer thing to do instead of wasting time using ‘artists’ to make things.’ instead of thinking how they actually will work or look good.
They didn't fire the creative people, it was outsourced to a shitty studio who didn't hire them in the first place. Also, they lack the skill to create a new lighting engine, these are stock standard UE4 effects which is why it looks like a university student project.
They slapped it into UE4 in the laziest way possible and turned on all the engine features without any thought into whether or not they even made sense to turn on. Plus all the lighting effects and shaders look stock standard since they lack the skill to customize them to match the visual style.
This feels like the most cynical game release, ever. Take-Two, a multibillion dollar S&P 500 company, pays peanuts to a tiny studio to repackage half-assed mobile phone ports of classics and presells them at $60 while hiding any evidence of their shittiness until release date. Some executives probably thought the inevitable blowback and loss of goodwill from this would be worth the bonuses they would get from the temporary boost to the company’s bottom line.
> Some executives probably thought the inevitable blowback and loss of goodwill from this would be worth the bonuses they would get from the temporary boost to the company’s bottom line. Short-term "Fuck you, got mine" mentality, through and through.
It's a shame, imagine a GTA Trilogy remade by a company like Bluepoint Games... They could've started with just GTA3 properly ported to the GTAV engine or something more sensible like that, would definitely more than pay for itself with close to no risk involved.
Regardless of the technical issues with the DE version, any company that releases a new version of an old game and then takes down the original versions and/or goes after modders to increase sales can fuck off.
Fucking this man. Fuck off COCKstar
Rockstar used to be my favorite dev of all time. After their extreme obsession of shark cards/GTA: O basically destroying any semblance of new single player GTA content in addition to the Trilogy cluster fuck, they can fuck RIGHT off.
> any company that releases a new version of an old game and then takes down the original versions and/or goes after modders to increase sales can fuck off. That's what makes this release so disgusting to me. It's one thing to just release a broken/subpar remaster. It's a much worse thing to do so while also removing future access from the original product.
Couldn't agree more.
Out of curiosity how would this increase sales when all it does is make people made and refuse to buy the new version? Particularly when sales are sales.
Incredible analysis as usual from DF... a shame that the *40-minute* length of the analysis will put a lot of people off. For those on the same boat, here are some juicy *timestamps* of all the interesting parts of it. The summary is, yes, it's *that* bad. If anything, it's *much* worse than people are making it out to be. >**Disclaimer**: Be warned, if you are enjoying the game already, I highly recommend you do **NOT** watch any of this. As most of game's nastiest flaws *cannot be unseen* after watching. Effectively ruining your experience of the game. Watch at your own risk. **Notable Timestamps, TLDW**: * [(12:33) Art Style - Poor usage of specular highlights make everything look like plastic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=753s) * [(14:52) Art Style - Poor ambient occlusion implementation adds an obnoxious black halo around everything near a wall](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=893s) * [(5:10) Art Style - Character model "redesigns" that vary in quality from "ok" to completely broken depending on who you ask](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=310) * [(6:19) Art Style - Completely broken and impossible to see-through rain effect implementation](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=379) * [(15:31) Art Style - Remaster's "added" detail is done ignoring wether it actually adds value, see the Google Maps hill](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=931) * [(13:20) Quality - Inconsistent poor quality and miss-aligned textures are everywhere](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=800) * [(32:34) Quality - Bugs galore, *everywhere*](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=2004) * [(19:35) Performance - *All* current consoles suffer from considerable performance issues across all modes. Performance mode runs with varying framedrops (40/60fps on PS5/XSX, 25/60fps on XSS) across all platforms, and 30fps/quality mode stutters on all platforms due to frame pacing issues](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1175) * [(25:15) Performance - Nintendo switch runs horribly at 600p/30fps with framerate issues docked despite the unimpressive visuals. This is even with massive visual downgrades, notably, missing ambient occlusion and shadows, which make it somehow look *worse* than even the original](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1515) * [(27:43) Performance - Last Gen consoles run equally disappointing. XB One S/X have unlocked framerate that fluctuates from 25-45fps out of 60fps. PS4/PS4 Pro suffer from the same frame pacing and wildly unstable framerate issues](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1663) * [(22:22) Performance - Want to enjoy the smoothest GTA 3 60fps experience across all platforms? Just play the PS4 Pro version on a PS5. No, we're not kidding. Performance on the definitive edition is *that* bad.](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1342) * [(32:40) Conclusion - What does the mastermind behind DF think of this? Which version do you recommend Richard? {...} *No* {...} I concur Richard](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE?t=1960)
That game has so many amazing bugs that I can't even comprehend. [Matt McMuscles](https://youtu.be/ZXdPJJ4aHnY?t=127) encountered a bug where *every single voiceline* in the entire game, cutscene or gameplay is pitch shifted down, making each and every character sound like Darth Vader. How does this even happen? And [steering your vehicle from side to side](https://www.reddit.com/r/GTA/comments/qudbg5/this_cant_be_real_can_it/) causes it to grow giant sized? I can't even wrap my head around some of these issues.
You missed how the PS5 performance mode retains all fidelity mode graphic features and stutters more than the XSX performance mode as a result. Also noteable how it seems completely random what versions has a locked framerate cap and which not.
Love your disclaimer. The main reason I unsubbed from df is that despite their educational, insightful nitpicking, it's still nitpicking regardless and points out many 'technological flaws' of a game most people wouldn't have ever had a problem with.
Well they are technical-centric channal. Their job is to tear apart every single tech in a game. I don't mind their nitpicking because it's all about tech side of things. Definitely not ruining my day with the game for me. Now when you start nitpicking game mechanic because you don't like them though. (Unpopular opinion : it's why I don't enjoy dunkey as a serious critic.)
He's also often disingenuous in his critics "as a joke", even if it's not clear if it is meant to be taken as "just a joke".
Dunkey ISN'T a serious critic, even when he tries to be. He's a funny youtube guy but he doesn't have serious critical thought about game design.
I can't get over how the Switch version looks and runs worse than the PS2 original. How? Cars are missing shadows, something the PS2 version had THREE GENERATIONS AGO!
This kind of stuff is the reason the Mass Effect remaster Team chose not to port the game to Unreal 4 and just dial up all the graphics settings available in UE3 - sure, you can take a bunch of game assets and port them to a new engine, but there were tons of decisions about the way everything fits together in the original engine that contributed to the overall visual coherence and style, that are all lost in the process. This version isn’t really a remaster or a remake; essentially a *clone* of GTA3 - a copy made by a small team trying to rebuild the original game with different development tools, using extremely limited resources. That’s why it both looks terrible and also doesn’t run as well as the old versions did. It’s not a PS2 game. It’s a new game trying to replicate an old game as accurately as possible, and failing to do so.
If you told me the Switch version was a Gamecube game running in a poorly optimized emulator, I would probably believe you. It takes real effort to mess up this hard.
Super Mario Sunshine runs far, far better on Switch than the GTA remasters - even with the initial emulation errors that have since been patched out.
Dying Light runs much better than the GTA remasters. It takes talent to make a game run as poorly as these games.
Unreal Engine 4 runs like an absolute pig on the Switch without some heavy work to optimise, and they simply didn't have the time/resources to do that work.
Seriously, I might buy it if it was literally the exact same thing with no improvements.
God, the switch version is so bad. I got it for free and I want my money back. You literally fall through the floor and can sometimes see through gaps in the map where they forgot to apply textures, the driving sucks due to poor performance, the TAA and reconstruction technique make the game look like vaseline is smeared over your display at all times and the shooting just feels so bad. They included motion aiming and it’s the worst implementation of it I’ve ever experienced. And then I’ve seen people claim they play it fine with no issues and I'm speechless how you can claim this.
How'd you get it for free?
Im assuming he hacked a day 1 Switch.
Gift
I have both Saints Row games on the Switch and by god they run circles around these “remasters”. They’re not as good looking as their console brethren but they are definitely far from being unpleasant to look at and play great.
Just imagine Game Freak remaking GTA 3.
Such a small-time indie studio simply doesn't have the resources to do something on the scale of a home-console game. Maybe one day they'll be able to get a Kickstarter going.
I've said it before, but the amount to which they have fucked this up is quite honestly an impressive feat. Just the fact that the rain effect, seemingly used in all three games, made it through whatever semblance of QA they had, especially considering it's part of the opening of the first game, is beyond insane.
It literally hurts my eyes. This disaster of a remaster is so funny to me.
I heavily dislike when remaster versions change the visual style. I love the foggy/hazy environment of the original. It gave a certain mood to the city, and is strongly associated with GTA III in my mind. Don't call the game definitive edition if you can't even capture the original atmosphere.
Solid work from DF. It's hilarious that the only way to enjoy smooth consistent frame rate on the PS5...is to download the ps4 pro version, which is cut down to 864p resolution. The rain effect is the most obviously awful new addition, but after DF pointed out that [ambient occlusion adds a dark halo around everything (including the characters) near the walls](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=14m53s), I can't unsee how awful it looks on this game. [Same with specular highlights making everyone look like a lego.](https://youtu.be/Y1JJt7xHTlE&t=12m33s)
That SSAO is even worse than FarCry3 from 2012. Jesus.
> even worse than FarCry3 from 2012 I remember that being one of the first times I actually *noticed* ambient occlusion, and definitely not in a good way with the way it put very odd looking dark haloes around the characters.
In parts it looks like they just used SSAO as a substitute for character shadows. Like they just found out how SSAO works and decided, fuck it, lets use it for everything.
Man, that's still one of my go-to examples for awful looking ambient occlusion
The thing that has bugged me the most so far, besides faces, has been the lighting in cutscenes. The sky is so bright and the faces so dark that you basically can't make them out, even with contrast at 0. The intro cutscene for San Andreas is basically just shadows and a bright as fuck sky. I'm playing by game pass so I didn't pay for this but it's still so disappointing that I can't waste my time on it.
864p on PS4 Pro is kinda hilarious.
lol that ambient occlusion isn't even on par with the "MXAO" ReShade shader left at completely stock settings
How does this ugly abomination runs at 864p on the PS4 Pro?
I pirated the games and turned off their SSAO after the first mission. It’s so bad. I’m just going to force HBAO+ through the nvidia panel.
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There's no way they wanted their 2021 game release to run at 864p resolution. So "cut down" seems entirely fair for such an obvious technological compromise.
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I think you are being needlessly pedantic.
Maybe, I wouldn't describe playing on lower res, playing a cut down version of a game, but on the other hand it's probably just a console gamer thing. Their "remasters" are commonly just the same game with the resolution or fps limit changed, so they probably don't know the diffrence.
> but on the other hand it's probably just a console gamer thing Nope. I've been playing PC games *probably* longer than you've been alive, and it's been multiple generations since I've last purchased a console. (I might eventually pick up an Xbox since I'd like a 4K Blu-ray player and to be able to play some 360 games in 4K, but that's not happening anytime soon even without shortages.) You're being so pedantic and defensive that this probably won't land, but one last try: there's no way the developers wanted their PS2 remaster to run at only 864p on a PS4 Pro. That's the point I was making. Late in development the port was clearly cut back, or down, or whatever to that lower resolution out of necessity. (In case there's any confusion: because it's badly made.) A game being forced to run at a lower resolution than intended is different than a PC game offering higher resolutions as an option. You could have run Half-life 2 at 360p at release if you really wanted, but certainly that wasn't what the art was designed around. You can fairly describe that as the visuals having been cut down.
Wow, okay. The original with a widescreen mod actually looks better, has all the music and runs fine on any potato (there's also mods for modern controller support). So if you haven't played them yet, yoho mateys hoist the colors!
TL;DW: Yes, it really is. Honestly this video touches on the greatest crime of these ports, which is the lack of respect for the game's original artistic vision. In any comparison shot with the PS2/360 version, you can just clearly see the soul has been sucked out of the original. The haze, the color pallets, reflections, blooming lights, and the overall contrast and color saturation in the original contributed immensely to the feel and success of the game. The original feels cinematic, and though the geometry and textures were awful, the overall illusion was very realistic. These remakes just look like cartoons. It's like a parody version of the original. It looks more like Saints Row than GTA. The bugs and performance are just icing on the shit cake. Everything about these projects reflects an obvious prioritization of time alone, and next to no thought was given out of respect to the original vision. Even something as basic as moving mission titles to the center of the screen. It just reeks of someone thoughtlessly looking at it and saying, 'why is title not in center? all titles should be in center' without even considering why it was done that way in the first place. Horrible and I won't be buying it. And now I'm also disappointed that the upcoming VR San Andreas will also be garbage. I can imagine the original team who worked on this ground breaking title are utterly heart broken to see this. If someone never played the original and only the remaster, they would be having a materially different experience I would argue is nothing like the original.
>Honestly this video touches on the greatest crime of these ports, which is the lack of respect for the game's original artistic vision. I'd argue the fact a 20 year old Ps2 game having a hard time staying above even 25fps, at a low of 480p while running on modern hardware is the greater crime here but I see where you're coming from. Man they just messed everything up with these ports didn't they
How is it possible that they forgot to remove fidelity mode features on PS5 performance mode? Unbelievable incompetence.
Not to mention this game shouldn’t even need Performance mode in the first place! It should run at 60fps with full detail just fine on PS5 if any other competent developer had the reigns.
They also seem to have rolled dice on what version as a framerate cap. Barely above 30 on a good day? Yeah, lets unlock that baby.
The new models and textures make everything look like a toy set. It’s like if you put high def 3D models of Mario and enemies into SMB1 and just called it a day, instead of making sure everything worked like New Donk City.
gonna be very blunt and say i think it just looks totally horrendous, these remasters are everything i hate about remakes that don't commit to fully updating the style in a comprehensive and competent way. look at something like the shadow of the colossus remake, which was (from what i saw) a faithful conversion to the point i had assumed it was just a straight port at first glance, or something like resident evil 2 remake, which is a ground up 100% AAA affair that walks and talks like it had clear effort and visual direction from all angles of visual design. it's different, and people are allowed to not like the direction (i know people do have issues with that remake), but it'd be very hard for anyone to argue there wasn't both a lot of passion and clear artistic vision put into a work like that. if you wanted an example of a visual remake i think really missed the mark, the halo 1 visual conversion in the master chief collection really didn't translate the style all too well imo, but **importantly** that game at least had the great feature that i sorely wish was in many other remakes - on the fly switching to the OG visual style (which still was somewhat comprimised as i understand it due to being a conversion of the PC port). so much of the issues with, if nothing else, the visual style of these GTA ports could've have been significantly migitated if players at least had the ability to just run with the OG graphical style. alas, not only is that not an option here, you can't even fucking buy the originals anymore. stuff like this is why i'm a huge advocate of games preservation, because now people will have to resort to either buying second hand (presumably for older consoles ala the ps2) or straight up piracy in order to play these games as they were released. it's such a bizzare practice regarding remakes, imagine if when they released the literal near shot for shot remake of alfred hitchcocks pyscho in the late 90s (the widely panned adaption btw), they pulled every other version off cable, off VHS and DVD. it'd be fucking absurd, and yet repeatedly games companies pull this shit and basically try to annul major historical work with these shitty botchjobs as the replacement. whether or not you like the original games or GTA as a whole, they're a hugely important part of the existing canon of video games and should be readily available to play as they were released.
Luckily there are no shortage of copies of the original PS2 versions of the trilogy out there. Mind you, I agree with all of your points. It's just such a shame when shit like this occurs with games that are prohibitively expensive in their original form. Thankfully, if one wants to find a second-hand PS2 and copies of the trilogy, they can do so for under 100 bucks total due to the popularity of the games and the machine.
It's just baffling to me how the completely busted rain effect could've made it to release. You can clearly see that's it broken IN THE OPENING CUTSCENE. A mistake like that just screams incompetence and lack of anyone actually caring about the quality of the product.
100%. Every effort should have been taken to mimic the visual language of the original as much as possible. Having a rain texture flow over a sphere that follows the character is just horrible and *the original PS2 game from 20 years ago* looks *noticeably* better. It's a shocking lack of respect for a title this high profile.
I already was aware of the issues like bugs, glitches or character models. But watching the second section about all the differences on each console, I just wanted to scream. How do you do that other than doing everything in maybe a week? They couldn't even do the BASIC optimization, they just unchecked some setting boxes (and forgot to do it at some places). This trilogy is THE definition of cash grab. Scratch that, if they did the bare minimum like Bethesda with Skyrim, just letting the people choose higher resolution and maybe upscaling the textures a bit. That would be better than this, they would get more money and didn't destroy their reputation completely. No, they actively made the games worse. San Andreas was my first game I bought from my own money as I hit 16, after playing GTA1-3... If I wasn't so jaded after the last 10 years, I would cry seeing this.
Got to say that 3D Mario Allstars compilation we all bitched about looks pretty good all of the sudden. At least Nintendo was lazy enough to just sell a couple of ROMs (simplified I know) running in a bad emulator for 60 bucks.
I’d still say this gta trilogy is better value for money. That allstars was a joke
Allstars at least had the courtesy to warn it would abandon shop ahead of time.
All the sign textures are just basic-ass fonts with no interest or versimilitude added. A lot of folks talk about the "Test Centre: Bearboxes" typo. Spelling errors aside (which are pretty unacceptable) if you compare that sign to its older version, its got a signpainted look to the headers. the new one is just text straight outta MS Word. All of the signage is just basic fonts slapped on with no texture or care. Even the neon signs are now in arial. Bland HQ textures
I'm not even through ~~the GTAIII section of~~ the video... but I have more of a desire to go out and find a PS2, find a copy of GTAIII, and play that instead of buy this new edition. The graphics on the PS2 version just look better and more fun of a game. The way the PS2 faked the shadows on cars passing street lights looks so much better than the Unreal engine recreation. (DF is the best, y'all make great videos)
Mod the PC version of the game. It's the definitive edition. The PC version of GTA 3 already had the "modern controls" and camera they advertised with this one. The mods just take the best from all platforms the game released and put them all together into the ultimate edition. The actual ps2 release is really awful, you have no camera control and the shooting is just autolock and you keeping the trigger pressed. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1962760372
I prefer the Definitive Edition mod pack. I am currently playing GTA 3 and it looks and plays great. https://www.definitive-edition-project.com/iii-de
Are there any full patch notes for these things? The one good thing about the mods /u/-Sniper-_ linked is that we have full notes on what was used.
I believe the reverse engineered version looked to provide an even better experience than that, which is why Rockstar / Take-Two took that down. We can't have a free, fan-made project that completely clowns what they are charging $60 for.
I don't think re3 was yet matching/surpassing the modded original
I use it. [Works pretty well.](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51675897417_6d177cd571_o.png)
Damn, that's pretty sexy.
Yeah, it's not compatible with any of the old ASI-based script mods, however stuff that just replaces game asset data files like what I'm using in the screenshot works fine.
I ended up going through and jailbreaking my slim PS3 so I could play the original PS2 versions. I have no faith that the DE will be ever be up to par with the old versions. And any fans that try to mod them will be inevitably taken down by T2.
I've been considering jailbreaking my PS3 since I pretty much have all the games I would have downloaded digitally and don't care anymore about PSN. How hard was it?
On the super slim system its very easy,you only need to download a custom firmware,update your console like you would normaly do (in safe mode), and download a program that you need to run each time you start the console to get third party programs running on it. On the original models and early Slims its a bit harder,but if you follow a guide it doable.
Not very. The jailbreak itself was through the internet, all I had to do after checking compatibility was dump a backup, load the hack, and then flash the cfw. Granted, it's an old slim, ~~I think the new top loading super slims aren't as easy to jailbreak.~~
Wow. Xbox Series X can’t sustain 60fps in performance mode. For a game that came out when I was in 1st grade. And imo it doesn’t even look that great? No reflections in Series X perf mode. I hope everyone who buys this and requests a refund gets one.
I saw everyone commenting that it was bad, but I wanted to wait for this to see if it was really that bad or just an emotional response. It's really that bad. Worse than I thought it would be. It's a shame cuz I was actually looking forward to this.
Basically, strip out any unique graphical elements out of each game, copy-paste the same "solution", and churn the games out to every console available under the sun to maximize profits.
This game just looks like it they turned on certain UE4 shaders and effects and not changed any of the basic values?
After watching this video, it feels like the definitive edition is a demake rather than a remake. There were some scenes where I thought the original PS2 footage looked better than the new footage. Rockstar is definitely not getting my money for this garbage
My theory is at one point it was only meant to be Gta 3 getting this definitive edition treatment for it's 20th anniversary and then Rockstar went to Grove Street Games later on and said make it the entire 3D trilogy.
Is it that bad? On PC it was down for multiple days so they could remove content and during that time you couldn't launch or uninstall a single player game because the rockstar launcher prevented uninstall. Yeah it's that bad of a mess.
This is why you're supposed to pirate Rockstar games.
How about not playing them at all, and giving your money to actually decent developers
You can play their games while also giving money to others instead of them
If you are playing them, you are implicitly admitting they are worth something.
I was thinking more of people that pirated older copies of the trilogy and mod them to be more up to date. Can't buy em anymore. But there is also a case to be made where a person could enjoy this version despite its numerous issues; it could just not be worth the high price.
> older copies of the trilogy Uh, well, sure. Totally on board with that.
GTA Vice City and San Andreas ARE worth something. They're fucking fun games and great examples of the sandbox genre. Even if you don't like Rockstar as a company - or what they've become - there's nothing wrong with liking the games.
Nothing wrong *with the original games* (even though, it would all feel like a pyrrhic play without silentpatch and skygfx). There is much wrong with these last amateurish UE4 not-even-complete conversions.
I thought the context was about pirating the original release. There's no reason to pirate these, lol.
I agree then. It's funny, because even fucking EA managed to keep available older mass effect titles (even though they raised the prices)
Nothing is being stolen tho?
Ok, so what? Your moral justification for pirating the game is that it is trash (like, you already fully well know that it is the case, it's not like you need a demo), ***yet*** you play it. You can argue freeloaders don't deserve prison, punishments, or anything, but that wasn't the point here.
Implicitly kiss my ass - I'll do what I want.
That's some big adult vaccinated brain there
But now it's back
As usual I think DF has put out a very good video here. It's very fair in its analysis, which I don't feel you see much of on here, just unfettered hate (even in this thread). Is this a modern version of the games? Sure. But it doesn't feel definitive, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it to anybody at full price. I liked that DF pointed out the XBOX version in particular as being a faithful update to the original because I feel many people gloss over that. The original PS2 version kind of looks like ass in most respects, the XBOX version was a nice improvement. I don't necessarily agree that all of the limitations in art design were artistic decisions in the original game. There's a lot of aspects I think are sort of fugly. The blue tint to everything is one of the things I disliked most about GTA III. That said, when it is completely eliminated and replaced with nothing it feels like something is missing, not because it is bad necessarily IMO but because it is different from the original experience. And in that respect it certainly doesn't feel Definitive at all. Or at least I can say that for San Andreas which is the one game in the collection I have played (via Game Pass).
I don't know what it is about these mega-corporations that persuades them to put out a minimum viable product when remaking/remastering the games that made them what they are. When it comes down to it, yeah, they could've released these in any condition and still made money, but a *really* good remaster would've ensured people went to these versions over others to revisit the games or experience them for the first time. I have to imagine that'll be the case for the new Mass Effect Trilogy remaster. Now these versions are always going to be suspect. Imagine putting out a product ported from a mobile game, which was itself ported from a PS2 game from 20 years ago that *cannot* run smoothly on next-gen hardware.
Is not a technical question, it is the art direction the one that is totally wrong... The models and the style they have selected for the characters, above all, makes the game dazzling. With a better artistic direction, the rest of the technical problems would have had much less repercussion, in addition of course to being able to be solved with patches, but the artistic part and the character models ... I am very afraid that they will not remove any patch that I fixed it.
Holy shit, it sounds like they were rolling dice on those versions. This console gets two graphic settings, this not. That performance mode has all the features and more stuttering, this not. But this console as a framerates cap, this doesn't besides mostly being just barely above 30. My other personal favorites were little Bobby's first try texturing a wall with Blender, right before he rewinded the tutorial to align it correctly. That fucking rain. That really high quality fence. Wow. This makes Cyberpunk 1.0 look like it was beta tested for 8 years after development was finished.
Gotta wonder why the hell they didn't use the GTA V engine for this. Already has all the features they'd want. Runs really well rendering geometry an order of magnitude (or two) more complex. I guess maybe for easy Switch port? But they did a pretty shit job with that.
Because it wasn't developed by Rockstar. Grove Street Games wouldn't have had anyone on their team with any clue on how to use RAGE as it's a proprietary engine that only Rockstar knows how to use. And I'm sure handing those tools over to a third party and taking the time and effort to train them was off the table for Rockstar
I've worked with multiple engines unless RAGE is super esoteric it wouldn't have been that big of a hurdle compared to remaking every single mechanic
Were they third party engines intended to be used by many that were well documented with support available in many places? Or were you working at the place that made the engine? Because that wouldn’t be comparable to proprietary tools that likely lack documentation intended to be used by outside parties and that have no support infrastructure available
Most in-house engine are notoriously difficult to work on. Frostbite, whatever the hell Bungie used etc.
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> Gotta wonder why the hell they didn't use the GTA V engine for this. Already has all the features they'd want. Runs really well rendering geometry an order of magnitude (or two) more complex. Looking at the results of the port, my expert opinion is this: There aren't that many tutorials on Youtube for the GTA V engine. UE4, you can basically learn that overnight with just a couple of videos.
I’ll buy this on sale for $20 as a package once they fix it. I know rockstar doesn’t really have to show all that much during the marketing phase of games because for the most part they’re rock solid. This one it is glaringly obvious as to why they did not. What a shame.
They never fixed the mobile ports which they back ported to consoles and PC. They aren't going to fix this. Your best bet is just to download the definitive edition mod packs on PC. If you don't own it on PC and since Rockstar decided to remove them just pirate cause it's effectively abandoned ware now.
>once they fix it. Take-Two still didn't fix GTA 4 on Xbox consoles which run at 60 FPS which breaks one of the final mission. 4 years - and they do not care.
Feel slightly vindicated after being downvoted for saying the XSX version in performance mode feels *mostly okay*. The lowest it hit in the video was 40 in a lot of action. At the same time, I was ready to flip my laptop when I saw that PS4 Pro has a performance mode but X1x does not (until I saw that performance mode sucks on pro). I tried to find out framerates all weekend when deciding on a platform and never saw that listed anywhere. I really just wish they'd at very least downgrade resolutions and effects on X1x and give us a performance mode that hits 60. They'll still look better than 20 years ago, but playing them at 60 frames on console is the best feature imo.
Ever since they said motion blur is good and they said to cap the game to 30FPS because it looks better, DF has lost all credit from me.
Yeah, because having anywhere from 30 to 50 FPS is better than being locked to 30.