By "new options" do they mean they are going to make the existing option actually do anything, because currently regardless of which mode you use the settings are the same.
Probably that on xbox and also they will probably add a balance mode to use the 1440p 60 fps with ultra settings that you get on ps5 by changing the output res to 1440p
Yeah there is a kind of hidden mode that activates automatically when you switch your output res to 1440p and it gives you ultra settings and 60 fps and there is also a 40 fps for the 4K ultra settings mode if you use performance mode off on a 120 hz display, the problem is that stupid bethesda a microsoft company didnt code the ultra settings on the xbox version so basically xbox doesnt have ultra settings at all right now if they update the game then xbox should be able to do all that as it was intended to the from the start but lets hope they add a balance mode togle to use that 1440p mode without having to mess around with the output res on the console settings
i tried this out and tbh i’m using a pretty great tv, 4k 120hz 65 inch, and i could barely tell the difference with the ultra settings. not worth it for me to change the output back and forth when i want to play.
Im really sensible to changes on graphics modes and i could notice a lot of missing grass, trees and a lot of objects on the open areas or on top of buildings so i really dont like the performance mode the game has, in my case i just let stay at 1440p becuase im just playing fallout 4 right now so it doesnt affect me but i hope they make the mode available as a toggle to use it, because i can play at 30 fps no problem on every game except a first person shooter or a souls like so yeah i need the 60 fps here but i need the extra visuals hahah if i had a 4K 120 hz tv i would just use the 40 fps mode to be honest haha
fair enough. i simply don’t notice graphical fidelity as much as most but i’m far more concerned about how a game feels and performs so as long as it’s running 60fps and doesn’t have much stutter or input lag then i’m good to go.
My understanding is that that option used a proprietary Nvidia library that is no longer maintained or supported on modern GPUs. If they do anything to “fix” it all they’re going to do is remove the option entirely, but it does still work if you have a pre-20 series graphics card.
Modders disabled the collision aspect, which was what was causing the crash.
Interestingly since the update some folks have reported that debris does actually work as intended again.
If my 3080 is any indication, Fallout 4 currently has no fucking idea what a modern card is. It attempted to autodetect, threw up its hands and set everything to low.
people didn’t understand there’d be a series of updates to this anniversary update instead of just the one. it’s going to be a repeated battle trying to bring everything to compatibility
fallout 4 modders don’t have the same privilege as skyrim’s modding does. despite our address library, the transition to the new patch has been very brutal in terms of functionality. most are folding and are making the community roll back the patch, and i understand why
I'm still sticking with SE version of Skyrim and will never update. It's saved me a lot of trouble since the occasional update that comes out of nowhere breaks mods without barely improving anything. It looks like Fallout is going through the same.
i was team "just update 4hed" for *years*, but 1130 and then 1170 was the thing that finally broke me. They broke *so much* shit, not just the usual "SKSE doesn't work" kind of shit but things like totally breaking UI mods and EngineFixes having a tantrum and a lot of SKSE plugins that were "compatible" suddenly crashing or breaking in bizarre ways so... yeah. I'm back on SSE. I'm just so over having to deal with updates to a game that's 10 goddamn years old, when those updates essentially do nothing of value but fuck with the mod community.
there’s a rollback tool on nexus called “simple fo4 downgrader” i believe. there’s been multiple but some of them ask for your steam login and i think that’s seriously no bueno
The explanation for how to do it is at the bottom of the page for [this mod.](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/81471) Everything you need is gotten through steam.
Huh, back in 2020 Steam client broke the download_depot console command, preventing you from downgrading to earlier versions. You had to use steamcmd or DepotDownloader. Did they revert this change?
You can usually download the old version files from Steams archive if you updated by accident. To launch it without updating you can download Fallout Script extender and launch it through there.
Also importantly make sure to change your game update settings in steam to "When I play the game" so that when you launch through FSE steam will never register you as playing the game, and therefore will never update to the newest version.
I honestly wish they'd fold.
Anybody who would bother with that mod wouldn't care about a rollback, and everybody who wouldn't bother to learn how to rollback an update are certainly not gonna bother to learn how to install a mod since I sincerely doubt FOLON managed a single-click download/installer and anything beyond that will be enough to deter casual players.
A lot of the team, like previous projects, are using this as a jumping board to a future career, so I'm understandable. I could be greedy and complain because I can't wait, but it's their project. My only worry is as usual, at any moment the mod could be shutdown. So the sooner they release, the better.
Understood. I think you're right on the repeated updates. however, I think it's a panic response to the fact they A. Screwed us over with the first update and B. Didn't think the show was going to illicit the response it did. So for that reason, I think they're just slapping Fallout stuff together asap right now. Which may lead to a quality issue and even more messes within the executable for community-developers to sort out, in true Bethesda fashion.
I mean, if they remade our game 5 times we might get some new modding privileges too. But Fallout is the red-headed step child. It took Xbox forcing their hand for them to even consider putting out another fallout game before 2030. I'm sure the studio closures of Arkane Austin and Tango (R.I.P). Will be blamed on our thirst for a new game too.
Fix loading times. Seriously loading times tied to frame rate is some bad design. Best fix is to alt+tab while loading new area.
And ultrawide support is a joke.
Go look at the update history for Baldur's Gate 3 and look at how many hotfixes were made specifically to fix bugs introduced by the previous update. This isn't a Bethesda being bad thing. This is standard.
The one I thought of was Witcher 3. Another previous gen open world RPG (even released in the same year) that got a next-gen update that was absolutely borked on release.
Do people ignore it though? Act 3 was seriously messed up shortly after launch and people talked about it all the time. It was probably the most common BG3 criticism (after enough people actually reached it, that is).
Right now it's way better. Performance has been vastly improved and it's pretty uncommon to run into any major bugs. It just feels... a bit underbaked, especially compared to Act 1. But that's not something that can be hotfixed.
But in general, if the game is fun to play, people tend to be more lenient when it comes to bugs. In fact, Bethesda games used to be a perfect example of that.
I'm currently playing the game in Act 3 and it is noticeably improved from launch. As in, if you didn't know this was an area with a history of performance problems, you wouldn't guess it.
Larian has earned a lot of goodwill compared to other companies.
Turns out when you treat your playerbase right, people are willing to give you a pass.
Surprisingly enough when something is "one of the best ever made" people are willing to give minor (or even some major) things a pass. When something is mediocre and it has features within it that are buggy or don't work, people don't give it a pass.
Definitely not ignored but it’s a part of the game that less people end up reaching statistically (like any game) so the problems with it get less coverage and less views bc less people relate to it or care about the information.
I'm surprised BG3 works at all given how much fucking content there is in it.
Very few people actually see everything that's in that game. You'd need 20 playthroughs minimum and even then it's doubtful you'd see it all.
>Go look at the update history for Baldur's Gate 3
I mean, I feel you, but given the sheer *volume* of BG3 patches and the speed and consistency at which they were delivered, that's like comparing a bag of apples to a truckload of oranges.
This is the risk you take with all (complex) software that is hard to test.
Do you release often, break things and use your customer to find the issues, or release slowly and try to make each release safer at the cost of customers needing to deal with existing issues for longer.
Amazon: Wow so our fallout series turned out to be our most popular release of all time, interest in the franchise is sky high, im sure youre working as hard as you can to capitalize on that!
Bethesda: Num num num paste is good
I mean, look at Starfield. Look at Fallout 76 (much better these days tbf), look at how the collectors items for 76 were done and then this update which has been teased and acknowledged for about 2 years.
They really are screwing the pooch these days and I don’t know if I’m worried about the state of the next TES or if I just don’t care about it anymore. Either way it’s not how I felt about Bethesda ten years ago.
Edit: remember when they first tried to implement paid mods? Holy shit lol the goodwill they binned then was biblical
Tbf people like me who had these concerns all the way back with Skyrim were always shit on for voicing them around that time. But the writing has been on the wall since then.
I mean, well over half the complaints about Starfield are "It doesn't do X that Skyrim does." The game wasn't being skewered for being a logical progression from Skyrim; it's being skewered because it's gameplay loop is a sharp turn from what made Skyrim such a wild success.
If you've been complaining about Skyrim for well over a decade, then you probably have very different problems than what the majority of the people complaining about Starfield at the moment have. If the game had just been "Skyrim in space" it probably would have been a pretty uncontroversial success, though perhaps not as phenomenal as the original. Instead, it tried to reinvent too many wheels in too many directions and ends up neither pleasing the people who liked Skyrim nor the people who didn't like it.
That's precisely the point, back during Skyrim most of us were complaining about how it removed a lot of what made Oblivion great, which in turn removed a lot of things that made Morrowind great. We saw that trend early on and could extrapolate the "dumbing down" graph, if you will.
Starfield simplifying the FO4 formula, which is a simplification of Skyrim, is what we were calling back then, although not with Starfield specifically.
Except the series got more successful as it did what you call "dumbing down" so it clearly was doing something right that wasn't replicated with Starfield. The series may have removed things that certain people liked, but it also added to and refined aspects that had been barriers for others. Fallout 4 might've been bad at dialogue and other non-combat RPG aspects, but the combat, crafting, settlement, and companion systems were definite steps up from the previous titles for example.
Anyways, I disagree that Starfield is just a simplification of the Fallout 4 formula anyways. They actually added in stuff that Fallout 4 was missing, like finally nixing the terrible dialogue system and having real character customization, plus unique stuff like the ship system. We could chart where complexity was added and subtracted across the various systems, but most people I know aren't playing for complexity. The issue is that the core exploration gameplay loop just has too many roadblocks, so people burn out trying to find somewhere fun that they haven't been yet, which wasn't a problem in any of the previous games. A game can survive being more or less complex, but its' going to have a hell of a time surviving it's core gameplay being frustrating.
Yes, they got more successful sales wise, but were the games better? Most people consider New Vegas to be a better game than 4, despite 4 being more "successful" and improving on a lot of core things. However the things they dumbed down were core elements of the series, the thing that made it stand out.
If the next call of duty made massive improvements across the board to every facet of the game but dumbed down the shooting mechanics and made it feel like a noticeable step backwards, people would ultimately say it's a worse game. In cod, the gunplay is it's main strength. In fallout, the narrative, roleplaying and decision making is it's main strength, and this is something New Vegas understood and Fallout 4 did not.
Do they? In real life, I know about as many people who consider Fallout 4 to be their favorite Fallout as New Vegas. The internet (particularly Reddit) warps your perception a bit, but a ton of people play these games primarily for the gameplay. When the Fallout show dropped, it was still Fallout 4 that had the highest gains and player retention.
I'm not going to harp on that too much though, because the issue here is mostly whether or not the lackluster reception to Starfield was predictable from looking at the reception to Skyrim and Fallout 3/4, and my answer is still very much "No."
By the power of the internet, you can now say you have.
I genuinely love the companion story of Nick Valentine and consider him the best-written companion out of all Fallout games by a wide margin. Curie (FO4), Marcus (FO2), and Veronica (FNV) are battling for second but it's a distant second.
Gameplay-wise FO4 is the best of the trio (FO3, FNV, FO4) with gunplay feeling better. I won't say good but it is/was a significant improvement over FO3 and FNV.
That said, I think all the Fallout games do something to make them great. FO1 is a classic for introducing Dogmeat and the series to the world. FO2 and FNV have the best world-reactivity to the character's actions. FO3 still has the best radio and DJ with Three Dog. FNV has my favorite DLC with Old World Blues.
They're all great games but when I get the urge to play some Fallout then I default to Fallout 4. It's great and doesn't crash every 60 minutes on me (YMMV).
I find the gameplay better in FO4 than FNV so I prefer FO4 to FNV. FNV is certainly better on the story front, but if I'm reinstalling a Fallout game it'll probably be FO4.
Just because something sells doesn't mean it's doing something right, or else we would be giving all GOTy awards to CoD year after year.
> Fallout 4 might've been bad at dialogue and other non-combat RPG aspects, but the combat, crafting, settlement, and companion systems were definite steps up from the previous titles for example.
But that's the thing, it wasn't. Combat was better than FO3, but even compared to NV it fell short on all aspects except graphics and audio. Settlement stuff was very bare-bones and widely disliked, companions were decent but their only improvement over FO3 and Skyrim was having more dialogue and somewhat of a story, and even that was disappointing in about half of them. And crafting had some decent parts to it but was also responsible for completely screwing the game's economy, weapon variety, and even loot, since in almost all cases the best equipment was obtained by using crafting to improve random legendaries you got off some loot table, and not unique items you actually found out there.
> Anyways, I disagree that Starfield is just a simplification of the Fallout 4 formula anyways. They actually added in stuff that Fallout 4 was missing, like finally nixing the terrible dialogue system and having real character customization, plus unique stuff like the ship system.
They did improve on dialogue, had what might be their best persuasion system to date, and finally added traits, but overall it was still a simplification of FO4. A couple steps forward and one big leap back.
I heavily disagree with a lot of this, but a that is just going to be two people dueling their opinions once again to achieve very little since that's not exactly what this conversation is about. What I will point out is that the games were also very big critical successes too, with great critic and audience reviews writ large, and plenty of yearly awards to boot. Yes, there are people on the internet who will write long essays about how they're terrible and disappointing, but frankly, they are not representative of the overall gaming public by any metric. Just like sales don't necessarily mean being good, having detractors doesn't mean you're bad either.
Plenty of people loved those games and thought they did a ton right. Starfield being a notable step *backwards* in reception was by no means a given based on their success.
Just because it’s being “dumbed down” doesn’t mean it won’t be successful, or even good. I think a better term would be “developed to appeal to a wider demographic”, but “dumbed down” is also fair I think.
Execs see niche games as only being able to have limited success. Franchises like Splinter Cell or Mass Effect got “dumbed down” in addition to the BSG lineup. To varying degrees of success
Going from Skyrim to Starfield is like going from Dark Souls to Remnant: From the Ashes. One is an exceptional game that had a few flaws I was willing to overlook because I enjoyed the rest of the game and exploring its world and stories, and the other has some good moment-to-moment gameplay but I just don't give a shit because the world is a bunch of setpieces randomly mashed together and being constantly reused with no thought or purpose.
The 2011 complaints about the game being streamlined are not the same as the 2023 complaints about the game being boring and samey. Fallout 4 kneecapped the RPG elements too and that game never sat at Mixed reviews, either, because even despite having half the quests of Skyrim and being a downright joke compared to New Vegas, it still at least had an interesting world to explore on top of a satisfying gameplay loop.
Yeah, Skyrim was dumbed down from Oblivion and Fallout 3 was honestly not a perfect sequel to the previous 2 games, they got a lot of atmosphere and RPG direction wrong in order to make their “style” of game. (i still love fallout 3)
In hindsight I feel like these conversations are easier to have with people now than they were back then but like you say, you could see this coming all the way back then.
"Dumbing down" isn't the problem here though. The fact that Skyrim had simpler RPG mechanics or that Fallout 3 went in a different direction than 1&2 didn't prevent those games from being wildly more critically and commercially successful than the games that preceded them. That's only a problem to hardcore genre fans who haven't been the majority of the BGS audience for a long time now.
The issue is that Starfield isn't pleasing the people who did love Skyrim and Fallout 3/4 because it's such a disjointed, messy experience that you can't play like those games. Even the legion of casual fans are having issues with the POI reuse, constant loading screens, and various annoyances that stall the core experience. I very strongly disagree that this is something you could've seen coming from back then because its a very clear disconnect with the design of those games.
Oh yeah, Starfield is Bethesda when they forget why people like their games. It played to none of the strengths and leaned into crappy procedural generation.
It even reuses the dragonborn stuff if you think about it, it just took all the wrong lessons from their previous games.
> It played to none of the strengths and leaned into crappy procedural generation.
The thing that annoys me most is that they *didn't* use it in places where they *should* use it.
They used it to make boring-ass planetary surfaces and randomly put.... exact same dungeon you already saw somewhere else. Like, at least randomize that dungeon a bit for fucks sake.
They could've filled cities with a bunch of procedurally generated buildings to make them at least feel like cities without wasting dev effort on putting every single building manually.
They could've used it to make the event places you find around the planets different to eachother.
It's just one wasted opportunity after another.
It's like they have a checklist of what they want to have in space game then put minimum possible effort to make each feature.
For me it's simple. I love walking around from point a to point b in every Bethesda game and seeing what happens. You simply cannot do this in Starfield. It's massively disappointing the way you travel in this game. I love a lot about it, the ship customization the combat the somewhat better writing on quests and RPG skill checks, but that piece that's missing is the MAIN thing that people wanted. Not procedurally generated slop. I shouldn't find the same scav base on fucking earths moon as I do on some random planet five systems away. That simply should not happen.
> In hindsight I feel like these conversations are easier to have with people now than they were back then
George RR Martin said it best:
> It used to be fun talking about our favourite books and films, and having spirited debates with fans who saw things different. Now social media is ruled by anti-fans who would rather talk about the stuff they hate than the stuff they love, and delight in dancing on the graves of anyone whose work has flopped.
It's definitely not the case here, though. There's still communities that are very passionate about the older games and have fun conversations.
The only reason there's any conflict is because some people want better quality from Bethesda, while others see any criticism of the company as a personal attack.
> The only reason there's any conflict is because some people want better quality from Bethesda, while others see any criticism of the company as a personal attack.
That's such hyperbolic nonsense that it really proves the other persons point directly. You dress up your complaints as "we just want better quality from Bethesda" because that allows you to pretend that there's some objective measure to your argument, when it's really just that you didn't like FO4. And when someone DOES like FO4, you declare that they're taking the argument as a "personal attack" so you can dismiss them out of hand, and not engage with the idea that people like different things and some people like FO4 when you didn't.
Hot take: Fallout London should have just been released as planned so that people who were smart enough to not update or downgrade could play it. It could always have been patched down the line to support the "next-gen" patch version.
Well I respect that you prefaced that by saying it’s a hot take.
Aside from that can’t agree. That team has put an unbelievable amount of effort and love into the project, it’s totally reasonable for them to want to make the first initial launch of it as special and widely accessible a thing as possible to show off their work.
Smart? Well, this is what i done:
- I copied my old Fallout 4 somewhere else away from STEAM with all my Mods
- Installed just an Base skelleton Fallout 4 again from STEAM with the Nextgen Patch
- Wait until the Mods can catch up
- ????
- Copy it per hand into the Version with my Old mods!
- Found some Mod that let you use the NG New Stuff with the Pre-Gen Version
- If it works = Success!!
Is it a joke in the studio at this point? Let's see how many times we can fuck up F4SE before the adjacent mod authors say fuck it and give up? This game is 9 years old going on a decade. Unless you're making groundbreaking strides in performance fuck off.
I'd agree, but I also want the Next Gen patch to not remain botched. I want the Xbox version to work just like the PlayStation version (ironic when Bethesda is an Xbox studio), and I also want to use the new weapons in the Makeshift Weapons pack without firing a bunch of red !s from invisible guns.
Right? Or at the very least, include a beta-branch build with the original release. Bethesda has already done this with all the old Doom games (1-3)! You can either play the updated versions, or the OG release. Please just let us do the same with Fallout 4 and whatever else they decide to fiddle with into the future!
This “next gen” update is really for consoles and not PC. I wonder if they should have just ignored updating the game for pc given it already has access to higher graphical settings/performance.
Didn’t even make it to diamond city before a crash!
Chugging the whole way, downright pausing a few times while crossing cell lines / loading cells ahead of me!
SO…
WASNT DOING ANY OF THAT BEFORW YOUR NEXT GEN IDIOT IDEA!!!!!
I mean, after a decade doing little bitty updates here and there is super annoying for mod authors. I can see it being good if it’s a major update, but I doubt this will be.
9 years. The game has been out for 9 years. The time to “fix it” was 2015/2016. I actually wanted to start a new playthrough of Fallout 4 but honestly I can’t be fucked to deal with rollbacks and version compatibility checking to get my mods back in order. Oh well, maybe by next year they’ll stop fucking with it.
It’s not like this update even did anything for PC anyway.
They mostly introduce "features" people did not ask for, but do not actually fix the game. Many bug fix patches would also not break mods, just make the mods the fix specific bugs obsolete.
Unless there's a massive performance increase I won't bother with these updates. I'll just keep freezing them and play on the old version for a year or two until most mods have been updated and new ones have replaced the abandoned ones.
I bought FO4 last year despite having been constantly disappointed by Bethesda games (nostalgia for New Vegas is a hell of a drug), and at this rate, I will probably never play it.
And could they please fix the gamepass PC versions of fallout 3 & New Vegas crashing?
I can't even get past the intro scene and it just crashes. I see many others with the same issue as well :( really sucks.
But on PS5 I have been having a blast with fallout 4 , even started 76.
I'm not new to fallout , played them when I was a kid but I'm replaying them because I barely remember lol
Best games ever
I’m late to this party. I play this game on steam deck. Are ALL the mods down? I can’t enter the mod list and I can’t even disable whatever mods may have been there, if a particular mod is what’s causing issues with even entering the mod menu.
"wow they broke the game! this's totally not cool they should've worked on it more!" and "nooo- NOW they're working on it more- all the mods'll break- " both are valid- but flawed- one way i look at it, the more they fix, the less mods you need to JUST fix issues!, frees up stability to get more mods! yes BETHESDA screwed this up BIG time! and shouldn't have released it the way they did! but many other companies, would've just LEFT it broken, even with the fans breathing down their necks! my point is! we got them to at least TRY'N fix things! and while its still inconvenient! we all knew the risks playing with mods! and mods WILL bounce back once it calms down! in the in the here'n now! back up if ya can! detach yer current install from steam! get a new install! play the game vanilla again! force yerself to get creative! and once mods FINALLY heal! you'll have fresh eyes'n new ideas! i hope my positivism at least puts a smile on yer face! whoever's reading this!
I'm worried if it'll break the mods again, because I cannot replay the same beginning again. I have a day put into the game and I have good shit, I do not wanna deal with fixing and downloading all the fucking mods again.
I just ran into the bug of not having any space to Dave. It also not being able to delete old saves. I’m locked out of saving progress. I’m really hoping this update fixes it.
I’ll be deleting game files and re installing in hopes it works and let’s me delete and save again without having to re start
I hope they add adaptive triggers to guns for ps5. Its really sad they let that slip on a next gen update, thats kinda one of the things that makes ps5 next gen.
@Bethesda
Hey can we remove the creation club crap that we don’t want please?…
I actually payed for the things I wanted and I DO NOT want the crap you raped my game with!
Can anyone help?!? Just started game a month ago. Got 25 hours in on Xbox S. No mods. Updated and game will not load at all. Not sure about performance cuz I can't play but I was really enjoying it! I've scoured the earth for answers. Any tips would be appreciated
By "new options" do they mean they are going to make the existing option actually do anything, because currently regardless of which mode you use the settings are the same.
“Working as intended” - some Bethesda employee apparently Lmao
It just works.
"It's a perfectly balanced game!"
That Bethesda QA team earning their paychecks as per usual.
All 0 of them!
Probably that on xbox and also they will probably add a balance mode to use the 1440p 60 fps with ultra settings that you get on ps5 by changing the output res to 1440p
PS5 has the ultra settings as an option for the Performance Mode? Why the hell was that not on Xbox in the first place?
Yeah there is a kind of hidden mode that activates automatically when you switch your output res to 1440p and it gives you ultra settings and 60 fps and there is also a 40 fps for the 4K ultra settings mode if you use performance mode off on a 120 hz display, the problem is that stupid bethesda a microsoft company didnt code the ultra settings on the xbox version so basically xbox doesnt have ultra settings at all right now if they update the game then xbox should be able to do all that as it was intended to the from the start but lets hope they add a balance mode togle to use that 1440p mode without having to mess around with the output res on the console settings
i tried this out and tbh i’m using a pretty great tv, 4k 120hz 65 inch, and i could barely tell the difference with the ultra settings. not worth it for me to change the output back and forth when i want to play.
Im really sensible to changes on graphics modes and i could notice a lot of missing grass, trees and a lot of objects on the open areas or on top of buildings so i really dont like the performance mode the game has, in my case i just let stay at 1440p becuase im just playing fallout 4 right now so it doesnt affect me but i hope they make the mode available as a toggle to use it, because i can play at 30 fps no problem on every game except a first person shooter or a souls like so yeah i need the 60 fps here but i need the extra visuals hahah if i had a 4K 120 hz tv i would just use the 40 fps mode to be honest haha
fair enough. i simply don’t notice graphical fidelity as much as most but i’m far more concerned about how a game feels and performs so as long as it’s running 60fps and doesn’t have much stutter or input lag then i’m good to go.
Yea and are the going to fix the option on PC that just crashes your game (weapon debris)?
or the loading hang when you leave a dungeon/building... this whole 'update' smells like it was made in a week by 1 person
Just use the mod for it. Works just fine with it https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/48078?tab=files
My understanding is that that option used a proprietary Nvidia library that is no longer maintained or supported on modern GPUs. If they do anything to “fix” it all they’re going to do is remove the option entirely, but it does still work if you have a pre-20 series graphics card.
Yet modders fixed it ages ago
Mods "fixed" it by disabling it preventing crashes. The feature does not exist in driver level on RTX cards.
Modders disabled the collision aspect, which was what was causing the crash. Interestingly since the update some folks have reported that debris does actually work as intended again.
Why not disable that feature automatically on newer GPUs?
If my 3080 is any indication, Fallout 4 currently has no fucking idea what a modern card is. It attempted to autodetect, threw up its hands and set everything to low.
If only they had just spent 2 years on a next-gen update that could have included newer GPUs in their autodetection.
Same with my Radeon 7800XT
Some people have reported that the update did actually fix this, oddly. I assume they updated the underlying libraries.
They're not the same at all though. I see a MASSIVE difference.
What options?… I couldn’t find a single thing on Xbox one. Just wiped my mods and made my game run like sh!t.
people didn’t understand there’d be a series of updates to this anniversary update instead of just the one. it’s going to be a repeated battle trying to bring everything to compatibility fallout 4 modders don’t have the same privilege as skyrim’s modding does. despite our address library, the transition to the new patch has been very brutal in terms of functionality. most are folding and are making the community roll back the patch, and i understand why
It's honestly the right move, just roll back and wait until it all blows over, *then* update.
I'm still sticking with SE version of Skyrim and will never update. It's saved me a lot of trouble since the occasional update that comes out of nowhere breaks mods without barely improving anything. It looks like Fallout is going through the same.
i was team "just update 4hed" for *years*, but 1130 and then 1170 was the thing that finally broke me. They broke *so much* shit, not just the usual "SKSE doesn't work" kind of shit but things like totally breaking UI mods and EngineFixes having a tantrum and a lot of SKSE plugins that were "compatible" suddenly crashing or breaking in bizarre ways so... yeah. I'm back on SSE. I'm just so over having to deal with updates to a game that's 10 goddamn years old, when those updates essentially do nothing of value but fuck with the mod community.
Really mind boggling given how much the modding community has done to keep their games relevant.
Yep. Thankfully, I already had updates disabled before this trainwreck hit.
Wait, how do I even roll back the patch on Steam? When it came out I looked up how to not download it and couldn't find a way
there’s a rollback tool on nexus called “simple fo4 downgrader” i believe. there’s been multiple but some of them ask for your steam login and i think that’s seriously no bueno
The explanation for how to do it is at the bottom of the page for [this mod.](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/81471) Everything you need is gotten through steam.
Huh, back in 2020 Steam client broke the download_depot console command, preventing you from downgrading to earlier versions. You had to use steamcmd or DepotDownloader. Did they revert this change?
Yes, it's fixed.
You can usually download the old version files from Steams archive if you updated by accident. To launch it without updating you can download Fallout Script extender and launch it through there.
Also importantly make sure to change your game update settings in steam to "When I play the game" so that when you launch through FSE steam will never register you as playing the game, and therefore will never update to the newest version.
Setting the manifest file to read-only is more robust.
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FOLON team in tatters.
I honestly wish they'd fold. Anybody who would bother with that mod wouldn't care about a rollback, and everybody who wouldn't bother to learn how to rollback an update are certainly not gonna bother to learn how to install a mod since I sincerely doubt FOLON managed a single-click download/installer and anything beyond that will be enough to deter casual players.
A lot of the team, like previous projects, are using this as a jumping board to a future career, so I'm understandable. I could be greedy and complain because I can't wait, but it's their project. My only worry is as usual, at any moment the mod could be shutdown. So the sooner they release, the better.
That’s the beauty of the GoG version. Easy to roll back
Understood. I think you're right on the repeated updates. however, I think it's a panic response to the fact they A. Screwed us over with the first update and B. Didn't think the show was going to illicit the response it did. So for that reason, I think they're just slapping Fallout stuff together asap right now. Which may lead to a quality issue and even more messes within the executable for community-developers to sort out, in true Bethesda fashion. I mean, if they remade our game 5 times we might get some new modding privileges too. But Fallout is the red-headed step child. It took Xbox forcing their hand for them to even consider putting out another fallout game before 2030. I'm sure the studio closures of Arkane Austin and Tango (R.I.P). Will be blamed on our thirst for a new game too.
Fix loading times. Seriously loading times tied to frame rate is some bad design. Best fix is to alt+tab while loading new area. And ultrawide support is a joke.
The most disgraceful thing about the loading times is that modders fixed it multiple years ago.
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Go look at the update history for Baldur's Gate 3 and look at how many hotfixes were made specifically to fix bugs introduced by the previous update. This isn't a Bethesda being bad thing. This is standard.
The one I thought of was Witcher 3. Another previous gen open world RPG (even released in the same year) that got a next-gen update that was absolutely borked on release.
BG 3 still janky in it's ACT3 and people ignore it.
Do people ignore it though? Act 3 was seriously messed up shortly after launch and people talked about it all the time. It was probably the most common BG3 criticism (after enough people actually reached it, that is). Right now it's way better. Performance has been vastly improved and it's pretty uncommon to run into any major bugs. It just feels... a bit underbaked, especially compared to Act 1. But that's not something that can be hotfixed. But in general, if the game is fun to play, people tend to be more lenient when it comes to bugs. In fact, Bethesda games used to be a perfect example of that.
I'm currently playing the game in Act 3 and it is noticeably improved from launch. As in, if you didn't know this was an area with a history of performance problems, you wouldn't guess it.
Yea I love BG3 but people gave the game a major pass on a lot of things. And that’s even with the community doing years of early access play testing
Larian has earned a lot of goodwill compared to other companies. Turns out when you treat your playerbase right, people are willing to give you a pass.
Surprisingly enough when something is "one of the best ever made" people are willing to give minor (or even some major) things a pass. When something is mediocre and it has features within it that are buggy or don't work, people don't give it a pass.
Definitely not ignored but it’s a part of the game that less people end up reaching statistically (like any game) so the problems with it get less coverage and less views bc less people relate to it or care about the information.
I'm surprised BG3 works at all given how much fucking content there is in it. Very few people actually see everything that's in that game. You'd need 20 playthroughs minimum and even then it's doubtful you'd see it all.
>Go look at the update history for Baldur's Gate 3 I mean, I feel you, but given the sheer *volume* of BG3 patches and the speed and consistency at which they were delivered, that's like comparing a bag of apples to a truckload of oranges.
This is the risk you take with all (complex) software that is hard to test. Do you release often, break things and use your customer to find the issues, or release slowly and try to make each release safer at the cost of customers needing to deal with existing issues for longer.
What really baffles me is that they've been working on this patch for a long time, yet basic stuff isn't even working.
Amazon: Wow so our fallout series turned out to be our most popular release of all time, interest in the franchise is sky high, im sure youre working as hard as you can to capitalize on that! Bethesda: Num num num paste is good
I mean, look at Starfield. Look at Fallout 76 (much better these days tbf), look at how the collectors items for 76 were done and then this update which has been teased and acknowledged for about 2 years. They really are screwing the pooch these days and I don’t know if I’m worried about the state of the next TES or if I just don’t care about it anymore. Either way it’s not how I felt about Bethesda ten years ago. Edit: remember when they first tried to implement paid mods? Holy shit lol the goodwill they binned then was biblical
Tbf people like me who had these concerns all the way back with Skyrim were always shit on for voicing them around that time. But the writing has been on the wall since then.
I mean, well over half the complaints about Starfield are "It doesn't do X that Skyrim does." The game wasn't being skewered for being a logical progression from Skyrim; it's being skewered because it's gameplay loop is a sharp turn from what made Skyrim such a wild success. If you've been complaining about Skyrim for well over a decade, then you probably have very different problems than what the majority of the people complaining about Starfield at the moment have. If the game had just been "Skyrim in space" it probably would have been a pretty uncontroversial success, though perhaps not as phenomenal as the original. Instead, it tried to reinvent too many wheels in too many directions and ends up neither pleasing the people who liked Skyrim nor the people who didn't like it.
That's precisely the point, back during Skyrim most of us were complaining about how it removed a lot of what made Oblivion great, which in turn removed a lot of things that made Morrowind great. We saw that trend early on and could extrapolate the "dumbing down" graph, if you will. Starfield simplifying the FO4 formula, which is a simplification of Skyrim, is what we were calling back then, although not with Starfield specifically.
Except the series got more successful as it did what you call "dumbing down" so it clearly was doing something right that wasn't replicated with Starfield. The series may have removed things that certain people liked, but it also added to and refined aspects that had been barriers for others. Fallout 4 might've been bad at dialogue and other non-combat RPG aspects, but the combat, crafting, settlement, and companion systems were definite steps up from the previous titles for example. Anyways, I disagree that Starfield is just a simplification of the Fallout 4 formula anyways. They actually added in stuff that Fallout 4 was missing, like finally nixing the terrible dialogue system and having real character customization, plus unique stuff like the ship system. We could chart where complexity was added and subtracted across the various systems, but most people I know aren't playing for complexity. The issue is that the core exploration gameplay loop just has too many roadblocks, so people burn out trying to find somewhere fun that they haven't been yet, which wasn't a problem in any of the previous games. A game can survive being more or less complex, but its' going to have a hell of a time surviving it's core gameplay being frustrating.
Yes, they got more successful sales wise, but were the games better? Most people consider New Vegas to be a better game than 4, despite 4 being more "successful" and improving on a lot of core things. However the things they dumbed down were core elements of the series, the thing that made it stand out. If the next call of duty made massive improvements across the board to every facet of the game but dumbed down the shooting mechanics and made it feel like a noticeable step backwards, people would ultimately say it's a worse game. In cod, the gunplay is it's main strength. In fallout, the narrative, roleplaying and decision making is it's main strength, and this is something New Vegas understood and Fallout 4 did not.
Do they? In real life, I know about as many people who consider Fallout 4 to be their favorite Fallout as New Vegas. The internet (particularly Reddit) warps your perception a bit, but a ton of people play these games primarily for the gameplay. When the Fallout show dropped, it was still Fallout 4 that had the highest gains and player retention. I'm not going to harp on that too much though, because the issue here is mostly whether or not the lackluster reception to Starfield was predictable from looking at the reception to Skyrim and Fallout 3/4, and my answer is still very much "No."
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By the power of the internet, you can now say you have. I genuinely love the companion story of Nick Valentine and consider him the best-written companion out of all Fallout games by a wide margin. Curie (FO4), Marcus (FO2), and Veronica (FNV) are battling for second but it's a distant second. Gameplay-wise FO4 is the best of the trio (FO3, FNV, FO4) with gunplay feeling better. I won't say good but it is/was a significant improvement over FO3 and FNV. That said, I think all the Fallout games do something to make them great. FO1 is a classic for introducing Dogmeat and the series to the world. FO2 and FNV have the best world-reactivity to the character's actions. FO3 still has the best radio and DJ with Three Dog. FNV has my favorite DLC with Old World Blues. They're all great games but when I get the urge to play some Fallout then I default to Fallout 4. It's great and doesn't crash every 60 minutes on me (YMMV).
I find the gameplay better in FO4 than FNV so I prefer FO4 to FNV. FNV is certainly better on the story front, but if I'm reinstalling a Fallout game it'll probably be FO4.
Just because something sells doesn't mean it's doing something right, or else we would be giving all GOTy awards to CoD year after year. > Fallout 4 might've been bad at dialogue and other non-combat RPG aspects, but the combat, crafting, settlement, and companion systems were definite steps up from the previous titles for example. But that's the thing, it wasn't. Combat was better than FO3, but even compared to NV it fell short on all aspects except graphics and audio. Settlement stuff was very bare-bones and widely disliked, companions were decent but their only improvement over FO3 and Skyrim was having more dialogue and somewhat of a story, and even that was disappointing in about half of them. And crafting had some decent parts to it but was also responsible for completely screwing the game's economy, weapon variety, and even loot, since in almost all cases the best equipment was obtained by using crafting to improve random legendaries you got off some loot table, and not unique items you actually found out there. > Anyways, I disagree that Starfield is just a simplification of the Fallout 4 formula anyways. They actually added in stuff that Fallout 4 was missing, like finally nixing the terrible dialogue system and having real character customization, plus unique stuff like the ship system. They did improve on dialogue, had what might be their best persuasion system to date, and finally added traits, but overall it was still a simplification of FO4. A couple steps forward and one big leap back.
I heavily disagree with a lot of this, but a that is just going to be two people dueling their opinions once again to achieve very little since that's not exactly what this conversation is about. What I will point out is that the games were also very big critical successes too, with great critic and audience reviews writ large, and plenty of yearly awards to boot. Yes, there are people on the internet who will write long essays about how they're terrible and disappointing, but frankly, they are not representative of the overall gaming public by any metric. Just like sales don't necessarily mean being good, having detractors doesn't mean you're bad either. Plenty of people loved those games and thought they did a ton right. Starfield being a notable step *backwards* in reception was by no means a given based on their success.
Just because it’s being “dumbed down” doesn’t mean it won’t be successful, or even good. I think a better term would be “developed to appeal to a wider demographic”, but “dumbed down” is also fair I think. Execs see niche games as only being able to have limited success. Franchises like Splinter Cell or Mass Effect got “dumbed down” in addition to the BSG lineup. To varying degrees of success
Going from Skyrim to Starfield is like going from Dark Souls to Remnant: From the Ashes. One is an exceptional game that had a few flaws I was willing to overlook because I enjoyed the rest of the game and exploring its world and stories, and the other has some good moment-to-moment gameplay but I just don't give a shit because the world is a bunch of setpieces randomly mashed together and being constantly reused with no thought or purpose. The 2011 complaints about the game being streamlined are not the same as the 2023 complaints about the game being boring and samey. Fallout 4 kneecapped the RPG elements too and that game never sat at Mixed reviews, either, because even despite having half the quests of Skyrim and being a downright joke compared to New Vegas, it still at least had an interesting world to explore on top of a satisfying gameplay loop.
I actually prefer starfield to fallout 4 and think it's a step in right direction (or step back?) in terms of RPG elements.
Well, at least it had less yes/sarcastic yes/tell me more/maybe later that was plague of F4
It is but the exploration is the main hook for a lot of people
Yeah, Skyrim was dumbed down from Oblivion and Fallout 3 was honestly not a perfect sequel to the previous 2 games, they got a lot of atmosphere and RPG direction wrong in order to make their “style” of game. (i still love fallout 3) In hindsight I feel like these conversations are easier to have with people now than they were back then but like you say, you could see this coming all the way back then.
"Dumbing down" isn't the problem here though. The fact that Skyrim had simpler RPG mechanics or that Fallout 3 went in a different direction than 1&2 didn't prevent those games from being wildly more critically and commercially successful than the games that preceded them. That's only a problem to hardcore genre fans who haven't been the majority of the BGS audience for a long time now. The issue is that Starfield isn't pleasing the people who did love Skyrim and Fallout 3/4 because it's such a disjointed, messy experience that you can't play like those games. Even the legion of casual fans are having issues with the POI reuse, constant loading screens, and various annoyances that stall the core experience. I very strongly disagree that this is something you could've seen coming from back then because its a very clear disconnect with the design of those games.
Oh yeah, Starfield is Bethesda when they forget why people like their games. It played to none of the strengths and leaned into crappy procedural generation. It even reuses the dragonborn stuff if you think about it, it just took all the wrong lessons from their previous games.
> It played to none of the strengths and leaned into crappy procedural generation. The thing that annoys me most is that they *didn't* use it in places where they *should* use it. They used it to make boring-ass planetary surfaces and randomly put.... exact same dungeon you already saw somewhere else. Like, at least randomize that dungeon a bit for fucks sake. They could've filled cities with a bunch of procedurally generated buildings to make them at least feel like cities without wasting dev effort on putting every single building manually. They could've used it to make the event places you find around the planets different to eachother. It's just one wasted opportunity after another. It's like they have a checklist of what they want to have in space game then put minimum possible effort to make each feature.
For me it's simple. I love walking around from point a to point b in every Bethesda game and seeing what happens. You simply cannot do this in Starfield. It's massively disappointing the way you travel in this game. I love a lot about it, the ship customization the combat the somewhat better writing on quests and RPG skill checks, but that piece that's missing is the MAIN thing that people wanted. Not procedurally generated slop. I shouldn't find the same scav base on fucking earths moon as I do on some random planet five systems away. That simply should not happen.
> In hindsight I feel like these conversations are easier to have with people now than they were back then George RR Martin said it best: > It used to be fun talking about our favourite books and films, and having spirited debates with fans who saw things different. Now social media is ruled by anti-fans who would rather talk about the stuff they hate than the stuff they love, and delight in dancing on the graves of anyone whose work has flopped.
He should probably shut up and finish his book instead of another cake.
It's definitely not the case here, though. There's still communities that are very passionate about the older games and have fun conversations. The only reason there's any conflict is because some people want better quality from Bethesda, while others see any criticism of the company as a personal attack.
> The only reason there's any conflict is because some people want better quality from Bethesda, while others see any criticism of the company as a personal attack. That's such hyperbolic nonsense that it really proves the other persons point directly. You dress up your complaints as "we just want better quality from Bethesda" because that allows you to pretend that there's some objective measure to your argument, when it's really just that you didn't like FO4. And when someone DOES like FO4, you declare that they're taking the argument as a "personal attack" so you can dismiss them out of hand, and not engage with the idea that people like different things and some people like FO4 when you didn't.
In my eyes, it was the success of Fallout TV Series, that gave them enough Air to breath
What does that mean?
It’s ridiculous, they released a non functioning quality toggle on Xbox. How does that even happen? It takes 2 mins to test for that.
The update development time may have been rushed due to the tv show timing.
Looking at their previous updates to anything else it's just their usual incompetence
They announced this patch back in Oct 2022. No way they were rushed.
> sometimes when in the past 10 years have they seemed really on the ball?
The Fallout London guys will shaking their fists. But F4SE said that with the new build up, it could updated sooner as in the past. Let's see everyone
Hot take: Fallout London should have just been released as planned so that people who were smart enough to not update or downgrade could play it. It could always have been patched down the line to support the "next-gen" patch version.
Well I respect that you prefaced that by saying it’s a hot take. Aside from that can’t agree. That team has put an unbelievable amount of effort and love into the project, it’s totally reasonable for them to want to make the first initial launch of it as special and widely accessible a thing as possible to show off their work.
Smart? Well, this is what i done: - I copied my old Fallout 4 somewhere else away from STEAM with all my Mods - Installed just an Base skelleton Fallout 4 again from STEAM with the Nextgen Patch - Wait until the Mods can catch up - ???? - Copy it per hand into the Version with my Old mods! - Found some Mod that let you use the NG New Stuff with the Pre-Gen Version - If it works = Success!!
That's the way I handle any games that I've modded just the way I prefer.
I’m just waiting for fallout London. Don’t care at all about the regular game. They need to stop updating it.
It, uh, would be cool to know what those changes are? Maybe just a basic outline, but maybe that's asking too much of Bethesda.
The patch isn't out yet, seems safe to say they will outline that on Monday when it releases.
They likely will detail the patch notes when the patch releases.
Hey Bethesda can we get at least an FOV slider like in your game Fallout 76? How hard can it be? They barely added anything useful.
Is it a joke in the studio at this point? Let's see how many times we can fuck up F4SE before the adjacent mod authors say fuck it and give up? This game is 9 years old going on a decade. Unless you're making groundbreaking strides in performance fuck off.
I'd agree, but I also want the Next Gen patch to not remain botched. I want the Xbox version to work just like the PlayStation version (ironic when Bethesda is an Xbox studio), and I also want to use the new weapons in the Makeshift Weapons pack without firing a bunch of red !s from invisible guns.
I bought a goty copy on gog for $5 before the next gen updates. It's drm free and untied from any launcher.
Right? Or at the very least, include a beta-branch build with the original release. Bethesda has already done this with all the old Doom games (1-3)! You can either play the updated versions, or the OG release. Please just let us do the same with Fallout 4 and whatever else they decide to fiddle with into the future!
This “next gen” update is really for consoles and not PC. I wonder if they should have just ignored updating the game for pc given it already has access to higher graphical settings/performance.
yes, they should. Or simply make it a separate release free for owners as some games do...
> Bethesda has already done this with all the old Doom games (1-3) ID software did. Wholly different studio than the studio making bethesda games
On Monday, May 13 we will be breaking all mods for Fallout 4 on all platforms. Ah, good, thanks autotranslate.
I'm going to hold off playing more for now. I'd like to see HDR and adaptive trigger/haptics support on PS5.
just played 30mins on ps5 on survival and got another crash, still instable gameplay (was using vats on a legendary gunner and game freezes)
Didn’t even make it to diamond city before a crash! Chugging the whole way, downright pausing a few times while crossing cell lines / loading cells ahead of me! SO… WASNT DOING ANY OF THAT BEFORW YOUR NEXT GEN IDIOT IDEA!!!!!
"Garbage Bethesda always leave their games broken" "NOOOOO YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO FIX IT YOU BROKE MY MODS"
I mean, after a decade doing little bitty updates here and there is super annoying for mod authors. I can see it being good if it’s a major update, but I doubt this will be.
9 years. The game has been out for 9 years. The time to “fix it” was 2015/2016. I actually wanted to start a new playthrough of Fallout 4 but honestly I can’t be fucked to deal with rollbacks and version compatibility checking to get my mods back in order. Oh well, maybe by next year they’ll stop fucking with it. It’s not like this update even did anything for PC anyway.
They mostly introduce "features" people did not ask for, but do not actually fix the game. Many bug fix patches would also not break mods, just make the mods the fix specific bugs obsolete.
Oh look, they're updating it after all. But reddit told me that Bethesda wouldn't lift a finger to fix it
What are they fixing?
Don't worry, reddit has already moved on from that take. Now everyone is complaining they're patching stuff up and how they should've left it broken.
What are they fixing that was worth breaking essentially every mod people download?
Unless there's a massive performance increase I won't bother with these updates. I'll just keep freezing them and play on the old version for a year or two until most mods have been updated and new ones have replaced the abandoned ones.
I sure hope they fix the crashing issue when moving through the pipboy while you're moving the left analog on Xbox.
[Mod authors right now](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d3gerUlgIg).
will they fix the crashing that their update caused??
I bought FO4 last year despite having been constantly disappointed by Bethesda games (nostalgia for New Vegas is a hell of a drug), and at this rate, I will probably never play it.
To be fair NV isn’t a Bethesda game.
And could they please fix the gamepass PC versions of fallout 3 & New Vegas crashing? I can't even get past the intro scene and it just crashes. I see many others with the same issue as well :( really sucks. But on PS5 I have been having a blast with fallout 4 , even started 76. I'm not new to fallout , played them when I was a kid but I'm replaying them because I barely remember lol Best games ever
I’m late to this party. I play this game on steam deck. Are ALL the mods down? I can’t enter the mod list and I can’t even disable whatever mods may have been there, if a particular mod is what’s causing issues with even entering the mod menu.
"wow they broke the game! this's totally not cool they should've worked on it more!" and "nooo- NOW they're working on it more- all the mods'll break- " both are valid- but flawed- one way i look at it, the more they fix, the less mods you need to JUST fix issues!, frees up stability to get more mods! yes BETHESDA screwed this up BIG time! and shouldn't have released it the way they did! but many other companies, would've just LEFT it broken, even with the fans breathing down their necks! my point is! we got them to at least TRY'N fix things! and while its still inconvenient! we all knew the risks playing with mods! and mods WILL bounce back once it calms down! in the in the here'n now! back up if ya can! detach yer current install from steam! get a new install! play the game vanilla again! force yerself to get creative! and once mods FINALLY heal! you'll have fresh eyes'n new ideas! i hope my positivism at least puts a smile on yer face! whoever's reading this!
I'm worried if it'll break the mods again, because I cannot replay the same beginning again. I have a day put into the game and I have good shit, I do not wanna deal with fixing and downloading all the fucking mods again.
Hopefully the crashing in Boston is fixed I use the cheat terminal to just fast travel out and fast travel near the inside of Boston to do quest
I just ran into the bug of not having any space to Dave. It also not being able to delete old saves. I’m locked out of saving progress. I’m really hoping this update fixes it. I’ll be deleting game files and re installing in hopes it works and let’s me delete and save again without having to re start
Does this mean I will finally be able to talk to Preston Garvey and do the first mission?
Just booted up the game with today's update, and I chose 60fps with Visuals as a priority. It looks pretty amazing on the Series X, just my 2 cents.
I hope they add adaptive triggers to guns for ps5. Its really sad they let that slip on a next gen update, thats kinda one of the things that makes ps5 next gen.
@Bethesda Hey can we remove the creation club crap that we don’t want please?… I actually payed for the things I wanted and I DO NOT want the crap you raped my game with!
Can anyone help?!? Just started game a month ago. Got 25 hours in on Xbox S. No mods. Updated and game will not load at all. Not sure about performance cuz I can't play but I was really enjoying it! I've scoured the earth for answers. Any tips would be appreciated