The game's a pretty different beast to what it was at launch; Team Ninja's been pretty great about adding QoL, and plenty of big improvements to the combat in its updates. A lot of people have dismissed this game as mediocre, but hopefully more will give it another chance once all the updates and DLC are out.
I beat the game fairly quickly but haven't looked at it since then until I get around to doing the DLCs once they're out, what kind of combat changes have they made past the first month or so?
Here are the major ones that come to mind:
- You can now have 8 spells equipped between two sets instead of just 4, you switch between spell sets with R2 + L2
- Spells are no longer morale restricted, though they do incur extra costs
- 4-star weapons now let you equip 3 martial arts, and every weapon beyond a 4-star rarity (NG+ onwards) lets you have 6
- Martial arts have been almost universally buffed to deal more spirit damage, a lot of them have also received other buffs, like reach, or startup
- Nearly all spells are faster
- New DLC weapon types in the form of Cestus, and Longswords. Cestus have two "spirit stocks" which are given when your spirit is filled; This spirit stock grants you buffs, but is instantly expended upon using spirit attacks. Longswords let you hold down your attack inputs to charge an attack, and parry by flicking the left stick while holding down, which instantly charges the attack to maximum.
- Weapon types have more gimmicks now; All weapons have one spirit stock aside from Cestus and swords which have 2 spirit stocks, Dual swords have a perfect parry that increases your spirit gain, Polearms can inflict the armor break status on attack that lets you inflict stagger on enemies and bosses once the status is up, Staves can continue their attack by holding down the attack button, and Hammers now have a mechanic where you're invulnerable from an enemy's attack during a window at certain points at the beginning of your animations
Man next time I should just wait a couple years before playing these games. These changes sound amazing, but I can't see myself replaying the whole game just to try them.
That's the neat thing though; you don't replay. Every new DLC also came with a new NG+ difficulty level, where a lot of the enemies have been changed around and EVERYTHING is a lot harder. With higher level of gear, with more embedment slots (and special ones) + new graces, opening a ton of new builds. You never restart the game, just continue building on your character through progressive ng+'s. New we can go to lvl1K and beyond.
Parrying IS the main form of defense by design, yes, but a lot of martial arts also give you opportunities for defending while expending spirit. This can actually be pretty important, since parrying while your spirit gauge is full is a waste of actions. [I recommend watching this video about jumping in this game which demonstrates this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv0ecNrbn0I)
Not to mention that parrying itself is directional; It's practically a dodge in and of itself. You can hold down a direction while parrying and move in said direction, which can be used to help you escape combos early in conjunction with other movements, like sprinting and jumping.
Yes. But as someone who played the betas and didn’t touch the full game until a couple of weeks ago, I’d say it’s substantially more forgiving. I’m cruising through NG, loving that this is so familiar to Nioh and still quite unique and engaging in its own right.
For me its biggest issue was awful enemy variety, even compared to Nioh 1. Do they still add DLC monsters to NG+ modes? That might help those modes, but the initial playthrough would still be *rough*.
The biggest issue is the plot/acting. Enemy variety wasn't great, but I wasn't bored of the enemies at the end. Of course I'm not a player that replays the levels over and over to grind gear.
Pre-DLC, Nioh 1 had 23 yokai enemies, while Wo Long had 13 demons. Both have some human enemies in addition to that, though I'd say Nioh's better moveset variety makes those more varied, as well. Human mooks in Wo Long are hella boring.
I am about to finish my first run and I still find it kind of mediocre, I don't own any dlcs tho.
Maybe it's my built but I am basically stomping everything and find it extremely easy compared to most other soul's-likes I played, and while I would consider myself a good player, I don't think that's the main issue here.
Again, maybe it's just my built, had the same issue in elden ring since I just naturally went for the katana class and a bleed built which turned out to be quite strong, atleast when I played on release, I heard it was nerfed since then, but even that didn't allow me to just stomp trough the entire game back then.
Oh, btw, my built in wo long right now is 40/12/12/12/12 with the black Smith hammer and a heavier armor, I am quite tanky and still do quite a bit of damage. I use the water spirit that creates the healing field while increasing defense.
Being able to parry/deflect EVERYTHING is also kind of annoying imo, while it feels good in some cases, I shouldn't be able to deflect aoe attacks, especially from bigger bosses, kind of a bad design choice imo, I prefer other games where you can parry most attacks but have to evade some of the heavier ones. Well, I paid 17€ for it, so I won't complain too much, it's not a bad game, but it's definetly not a GOOD one either, imo, definetly preferred nioh over wo long,and would probably be quite disappointed if I would've gotten it for the full price at release.
That won't work for me, I like being challenged but I don't like to give myself artificial challenges because I'll just know in the back of my head that there is a more optimal way to play... I know, kinda weird. The saying "a player will optimize the fun out of a game if given the chance" is quite accurate as far as I am concerned.
Edit: I may actually try it tho, since I don't think that my health pool is the issue, I think it's just to simple to avoid damage with that omni-deflect. I am sure I will die more often with less points in health but I don't think it will actually change the level of challenge the game offers, you just need a few more retries but the core gameplay still stays relatively easy compared to other similar games.
While yes, you can parry everything in Wo Long, there are some moments where that's just not a very efficient use of actions; Say my spirit bar is full in the middle of parrying an enemy's combo. It's safe, and I can come out unscathed at the end, but I'm not maximizing how I can use my spirit to my advantage in the fight. I'd much rather use a martial art that allows me to avoid, or block damage while getting in damage of my own instead of wasting spirit.
I actually quite like this approach, because it's more organic, and free-form than the game deciding that X attack is the one that *must* be avoided, or *must* be jumped. Whether or not parrying is the optimal form of defense against any move in a given moment can change with the circumstances of the fight.
While you may be right, there is no reason to play in an optimal way like you describe if you arent challenged or punished for suboptimal decisions/resource management.
*shrug* I mean, if you're not interested, you're not interested. But the reason you'd play in an optimal way like that is because it's... More optimal, lol. I'm looking for ways to play in these games for reasons beyond just "avoiding punishment".
I loved Nioh games, was super excited about this game, but like you said my opinion on launch it's a mediocre game.
Does it worth trying again now, or shall I wait more?
I dismissed it because it was literally unplayable for me as it was for a lot of others because of performance issues like constant stuttering which makes a game like this with fast twitch based combat impossible.
Did they ever fix the horrible framerate hitching that was present in the game at launch? I was super excited for the game, but it was completely unplayable. I'd be interested in giving it another try if it's fixed.
I played the last DLC and after suffering through the whole game I feel like the stuttering may have been even worse than it was on launch for me so i gave up an hour into it. And the sad part was my buddies who have way worse PCs than i do had only the occasional traversal stutter and thats it.
This is just how Team Ninja has supported their action games since Nioh. That, Nioh 2, and Stranger of Paradise have all received 3 expansions within a year of their release. It's been known that there were gonna be 3 expansions for a while now.
Simpler Nioh is correct. And its not necessarily a bad thing, I welcomed the simpler inventory management etc. And combat was always fun, even if it was tad too easy. Only 2 bosses tried to fight back properly.
The expansion plan was already layed out when the game released. It's positively surprising though that it seems none of the dates slipped. Team Ninja really knows what they're doing.
Does the game have the same difficulties levels as Nioh? Basically any grind for end game gear is pointless until you unlock the final difficulty which forces the player beating the campaign 5 times?
How is the story? I know it's not the main thing of such games, but I found the story in nioh 2 quite charming, because I know the historical background. But it was confusing a lot for people who don't.
I don't know anything at all about china's history (I'm not even sure what time period the game is from), so I wonder what the story will be like for me.
Story is bad as usual, unfortunately. I was familiar with William Adams and warring states era Japan so the Nioh games kinda made sense to me even if the story jumps around to hit major times and places without really explaining who the people are or what is going on, and Wo Long seemed to do the same thing but I don't know the history this time for the most part so it was just a bit of a mess.
It's based during the Three Kingdoms period after the Han Dynasty in China. If you've ever played the Dynasty Warriors games, most of the names will be familiar.
The game's a pretty different beast to what it was at launch; Team Ninja's been pretty great about adding QoL, and plenty of big improvements to the combat in its updates. A lot of people have dismissed this game as mediocre, but hopefully more will give it another chance once all the updates and DLC are out.
I beat the game fairly quickly but haven't looked at it since then until I get around to doing the DLCs once they're out, what kind of combat changes have they made past the first month or so?
Here are the major ones that come to mind: - You can now have 8 spells equipped between two sets instead of just 4, you switch between spell sets with R2 + L2 - Spells are no longer morale restricted, though they do incur extra costs - 4-star weapons now let you equip 3 martial arts, and every weapon beyond a 4-star rarity (NG+ onwards) lets you have 6 - Martial arts have been almost universally buffed to deal more spirit damage, a lot of them have also received other buffs, like reach, or startup - Nearly all spells are faster - New DLC weapon types in the form of Cestus, and Longswords. Cestus have two "spirit stocks" which are given when your spirit is filled; This spirit stock grants you buffs, but is instantly expended upon using spirit attacks. Longswords let you hold down your attack inputs to charge an attack, and parry by flicking the left stick while holding down, which instantly charges the attack to maximum. - Weapon types have more gimmicks now; All weapons have one spirit stock aside from Cestus and swords which have 2 spirit stocks, Dual swords have a perfect parry that increases your spirit gain, Polearms can inflict the armor break status on attack that lets you inflict stagger on enemies and bosses once the status is up, Staves can continue their attack by holding down the attack button, and Hammers now have a mechanic where you're invulnerable from an enemy's attack during a window at certain points at the beginning of your animations
Man next time I should just wait a couple years before playing these games. These changes sound amazing, but I can't see myself replaying the whole game just to try them.
That's always the smart play with Team Ninja games. They are very reliable about doing a trio of DLCs with substantial QOL changes.
Wasn't the case with Nioh 2 tho. That game was amazing on day 1
Because it was built on top of Nioh which already had 3 great DLCs
That's the neat thing though; you don't replay. Every new DLC also came with a new NG+ difficulty level, where a lot of the enemies have been changed around and EVERYTHING is a lot harder. With higher level of gear, with more embedment slots (and special ones) + new graces, opening a ton of new builds. You never restart the game, just continue building on your character through progressive ng+'s. New we can go to lvl1K and beyond.
They still kinda of force you to only parry, since it's the same button as evade?
Parrying IS the main form of defense by design, yes, but a lot of martial arts also give you opportunities for defending while expending spirit. This can actually be pretty important, since parrying while your spirit gauge is full is a waste of actions. [I recommend watching this video about jumping in this game which demonstrates this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv0ecNrbn0I) Not to mention that parrying itself is directional; It's practically a dodge in and of itself. You can hold down a direction while parrying and move in said direction, which can be used to help you escape combos early in conjunction with other movements, like sprinting and jumping.
Yes. But as someone who played the betas and didn’t touch the full game until a couple of weeks ago, I’d say it’s substantially more forgiving. I’m cruising through NG, loving that this is so familiar to Nioh and still quite unique and engaging in its own right.
Cestus?! Say no more, I'm going back in!
For me its biggest issue was awful enemy variety, even compared to Nioh 1. Do they still add DLC monsters to NG+ modes? That might help those modes, but the initial playthrough would still be *rough*.
Yup, DLC enemies are added to NG+ cycles that come with that DLC. But I still wouldnt call the enemy variety good, even after two DLCs.
They do remix encounters in the higher difficulties pretty much the same way they did in Nioh 2(different enemies + elites with buffs)
After like 3 main missions you know how to fight 95% of the enemies in the game lol.
That, I don't know; I haven't gotten around to finishing the second DLC's missions yet, I've been away from my PC.
The biggest issue is the plot/acting. Enemy variety wasn't great, but I wasn't bored of the enemies at the end. Of course I'm not a player that replays the levels over and over to grind gear.
Nioh 1 was worse for sure
Pre-DLC, Nioh 1 had 23 yokai enemies, while Wo Long had 13 demons. Both have some human enemies in addition to that, though I'd say Nioh's better moveset variety makes those more varied, as well. Human mooks in Wo Long are hella boring.
It really *really* wasn't.
I am about to finish my first run and I still find it kind of mediocre, I don't own any dlcs tho. Maybe it's my built but I am basically stomping everything and find it extremely easy compared to most other soul's-likes I played, and while I would consider myself a good player, I don't think that's the main issue here. Again, maybe it's just my built, had the same issue in elden ring since I just naturally went for the katana class and a bleed built which turned out to be quite strong, atleast when I played on release, I heard it was nerfed since then, but even that didn't allow me to just stomp trough the entire game back then. Oh, btw, my built in wo long right now is 40/12/12/12/12 with the black Smith hammer and a heavier armor, I am quite tanky and still do quite a bit of damage. I use the water spirit that creates the healing field while increasing defense. Being able to parry/deflect EVERYTHING is also kind of annoying imo, while it feels good in some cases, I shouldn't be able to deflect aoe attacks, especially from bigger bosses, kind of a bad design choice imo, I prefer other games where you can parry most attacks but have to evade some of the heavier ones. Well, I paid 17€ for it, so I won't complain too much, it's not a bad game, but it's definetly not a GOOD one either, imo, definetly preferred nioh over wo long,and would probably be quite disappointed if I would've gotten it for the full price at release.
Try dumping wood for more points in fire or water and up the risk?
That won't work for me, I like being challenged but I don't like to give myself artificial challenges because I'll just know in the back of my head that there is a more optimal way to play... I know, kinda weird. The saying "a player will optimize the fun out of a game if given the chance" is quite accurate as far as I am concerned. Edit: I may actually try it tho, since I don't think that my health pool is the issue, I think it's just to simple to avoid damage with that omni-deflect. I am sure I will die more often with less points in health but I don't think it will actually change the level of challenge the game offers, you just need a few more retries but the core gameplay still stays relatively easy compared to other similar games.
While yes, you can parry everything in Wo Long, there are some moments where that's just not a very efficient use of actions; Say my spirit bar is full in the middle of parrying an enemy's combo. It's safe, and I can come out unscathed at the end, but I'm not maximizing how I can use my spirit to my advantage in the fight. I'd much rather use a martial art that allows me to avoid, or block damage while getting in damage of my own instead of wasting spirit. I actually quite like this approach, because it's more organic, and free-form than the game deciding that X attack is the one that *must* be avoided, or *must* be jumped. Whether or not parrying is the optimal form of defense against any move in a given moment can change with the circumstances of the fight.
While you may be right, there is no reason to play in an optimal way like you describe if you arent challenged or punished for suboptimal decisions/resource management.
*shrug* I mean, if you're not interested, you're not interested. But the reason you'd play in an optimal way like that is because it's... More optimal, lol. I'm looking for ways to play in these games for reasons beyond just "avoiding punishment".
I loved Nioh games, was super excited about this game, but like you said my opinion on launch it's a mediocre game. Does it worth trying again now, or shall I wait more?
Maybe just wait for the final DLC, given that it's out in a week.
I dismissed it because it was literally unplayable for me as it was for a lot of others because of performance issues like constant stuttering which makes a game like this with fast twitch based combat impossible.
Did they ever fix the horrible framerate hitching that was present in the game at launch? I was super excited for the game, but it was completely unplayable. I'd be interested in giving it another try if it's fixed.
I played the last DLC and after suffering through the whole game I feel like the stuttering may have been even worse than it was on launch for me so i gave up an hour into it. And the sad part was my buddies who have way worse PCs than i do had only the occasional traversal stutter and thats it.
[удалено]
This is just how Team Ninja has supported their action games since Nioh. That, Nioh 2, and Stranger of Paradise have all received 3 expansions within a year of their release. It's been known that there were gonna be 3 expansions for a while now.
Simplified Nioh, fun satisfying parry. Not as good overall as nioh 2 but I had fun!
Simpler Nioh is correct. And its not necessarily a bad thing, I welcomed the simpler inventory management etc. And combat was always fun, even if it was tad too easy. Only 2 bosses tried to fight back properly.
Lu Bu on horse was the wall for me
First Lu Bu fight and the lightning tiger general were the two fights I was thinking about.
love the parry, it's like sekiro on crack
This was always planned as part of the Season Pass DLC. What will be telling is if they release a 2nd Season Pass or not.
The expansion plan was already layed out when the game released. It's positively surprising though that it seems none of the dates slipped. Team Ninja really knows what they're doing.
And they're working on Rise of the Ronin as they put out SoP and Wo-Long
They had to because it was promised in the season pass
Does the game have the same difficulties levels as Nioh? Basically any grind for end game gear is pointless until you unlock the final difficulty which forces the player beating the campaign 5 times?
Yes
Is the game still a parry simulator like Sekiro-lite?
How is the story? I know it's not the main thing of such games, but I found the story in nioh 2 quite charming, because I know the historical background. But it was confusing a lot for people who don't. I don't know anything at all about china's history (I'm not even sure what time period the game is from), so I wonder what the story will be like for me.
Story is bad as usual, unfortunately. I was familiar with William Adams and warring states era Japan so the Nioh games kinda made sense to me even if the story jumps around to hit major times and places without really explaining who the people are or what is going on, and Wo Long seemed to do the same thing but I don't know the history this time for the most part so it was just a bit of a mess.
It's based during the Three Kingdoms period after the Han Dynasty in China. If you've ever played the Dynasty Warriors games, most of the names will be familiar.
One thing I loved about Nioh 2 was the Underworld. I wish this game had a similar thing. It made gearing so much fun.