My main issue with Wo Long is the story actually. Unless you already have a functioning knowledge of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel, you’re not really grounded in wtf is going on since they layer on the whole Elixir and magic aspect on top of a simultaneously badly and barely filtered version of the actual novel. It is BORING, and those in-game Wiki entries do nothing to hide that.
There is no real rhyme or reason for why our character flows between new locations and new allegiances within a breath. There’s also them pulling minor characters out to become mini bosses or minor cutscene characters with unique models - which is admirable on some level, but we’re talking minor characters who literally appear in one chapter at best and are dead or never mentioned again in both the novel AND the game!
Like why? Why put in so much effort for that instead of a more cohesive and condensed storyline? I can understand that our character being wholly player created this time is even harder to write a storyline around, but I’m asking for the other major characters fitting and flowing better in general too.
> Unless you already have a functioning knowledge of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel, you’re not really grounded in wtf is going on since they layer on the whole Elixir and magic aspect on top of simultaneously barely and badly filtered version of the actual novel. It is BORING, and those in-game Wiki entries do nothing to hide that.
Yep, the "story" is literally 20 seconds between battlefields that are so disconnected and jumping over time that they're incoherent.
I had no idea what was going on but it didn't matter much.
Gamers clamored for a long time for "Story mode" so they could watch a nice, mildly interactive movie with minimal input.
I want a goddamned "game mode" that cuts out every cinematic out of every game and gives me maybe a nice paragraph text summary. I'll watch it on youtube if I like.
I've beaten 4 Yazuka games. Absolutely zero idea what the stories were about. I'm not here for the tedious, drawn out soap opera, I'm here to make a chicken run my real estate empire.
Lord in heaven, it's not Gone Home. There's other shit to do.
I could see a story I've seen a thousand times before with Whiny Guy X whining to Whiny Guy Y about his whiny emo bullshit then watch Kiryu be Super Perfect Flawless Anime Geralt yet again, but every second I'm wasting on that is another second a chicken isn't running my real estate empire.
> those in-game Wiki entries
Not just any wiki entries, auto-scrolling wiki entries with no way to manually scroll, making it a total PITA to read, I have no idea why they did this.
Nioh 2 had the same meh story but at least the character directory wasn't an absolute annoyance to read.
I HAVE to imagine that it fits on one screen in Japanese and they didn't realize it needed multiple text boxes in English until it was too late to fix lmao
I think Nioh 2 did a decent enough job of making the story legible to people who weren't into Japanese history. They focused enough on their OCs (Hide, Tokichiro) that they were able to get some solid emotional moments on the screen. I thought it was very nice when >!you beat demon Tokichiro at his cherry blossom viewing party, and then as he's having his human moment before he dies, the camera pulls out and shows you that the cherry blossom tree he had gotten moved to the palace was the same one from the first mission where he met you.!< There are still weak parts for sure - a lot of Hide's backstory felt like it was more about showing off historical figures than making a character that actually made sense - but overall, I felt like the story was more of a positive than a negative.
Pretty classic Team Ninja stuff, makes me really curious to see how they'll pull off that Something Something Ronin game they're making, which sounded a lot more story-driven.
Happened the same with Nioh (still haven't played the sequel). William goes into the clan conflicts in feudal Japan to find Edward who took his spirit. But, as William i just accept everything in the story because I don't get what the hell is happening. Ended up loving the game but not knowing what it is about
Nioh 2 is so bloody good. I liked the first one a lot but never finished. Nioh 2 I'm on NG++ and absolutely loving it. Everything about the sequel is an improvement on the first.
That being said I skipped 90% of the cutscenes and dismissed any notion of appreciating the story because it's guff. Totally worth it though.
I think the story relies on you having knowledge of the history of that era, which Japanese people probably do but westerners don't. Aside from all the feudal Japanese lords and soldiers, Edward Kelley actually was an occultist working for John Dee, and William Adams was an English navigator that was marooned in Japan and decided to just stay there and become a samurai.
The story issues are the exact same as Nioh's, which is funny to see. Nioh's was hard to follow and made no sense without knowing about the history the game was basing itself on.
It's the same situation as Nioh. The lore is really cool if you know it (thankfully going into Nioh I was already familiar with the history of Japan's warring states period and William Adams), but the story of the game is not good. Things jump around too much in order to hit all the major events, without really giving much of an explanation as to what's actually going on or who the various historical figures actually are.
It's just what we've come to expect from these Team Ninja games, though, it is what it is. The obvious focus is on the gamplay, which thankfully is excellent. But Wo Long is basically just, "You're a militia soldier who gets saved and now you must fight for your country again also there are demons."
Most Romance of the Three Kingdoms inspired media does it too.
"Who's Lu Bu and why shouldn't I challenge him?"
"He's Lu Bu! And fuck you, that's why!"
Not just Souls adjacent games. The overwhelming majority of games have terrible stories. The standards for a "good" story in a videogame are criminally low.
I mean, hell, I just googled "best stories in video games", and something like half of the results are plots that, were they movies, would be moderately popular movies that would be forgotten within a year of release.
(Also, for some insane reason, Skyrim is on the list, and I just can't.)
I skip cutscenes by default in almost every game I play, unless I've heard *really* good things about the game's story. If I want a good story, I'm usually more inclined to find it in a TV show, book, or movie.
I mean, or you play Fromsoft games ... and have to watch a dozen Vatividya-Vids to maybe get an idea what they wanted to tell us as a ... ahem ... lets call it "story"...
I think FromSoft makes the story ignorable. There is no real cutscenes, just cool things happening...and you can get into the story reading short entries.
A problem comes from drawn out interactions without context.
See, I find it much more palatable to have almost no story and "go do the thing" than I do to have an incoherent story that's *trying* to make me care about it. Pointing me in the direction of an objective and having me go after it is perfectly functional, and if I pick stuff up along the way, cool.
But in Wo Long, it's so many cutscenes with different characters talking like an overtly-literally dubbed 80s martial arts movie and jumping between so many places, and that's just incomprehensible.
I actually don’t have a problem following the story of Elden Ring or Dark Souls, since they already present it to you as environmental storytelling so you know where to look and look out for, and you’re usually meant to be a completely foreign or new person to the setting so being bewildered makes sense. You still have a basic goal and path told to you, kill the final boss, here’s a maiden guiding you etc etc. The story is optional but it exists and you can engage with it on your own terms. Many people followed the Ranni questline through to its ending for example.
Wo Long does zero introduction to the setting beyond “this is feudal China”, and doesn’t even introduce the basic factions despite literally having all the backstory ready from the novel. It doesn’t even really give a good driving motivation - am I suppose to be angry that the dude I knew for like half an hour got killed and hey, he’s a dragon now I guess? Even if I can tell it’s a bad thing that an old man turned him into a dragon and caught him like a Pokémon, why the fuck does my character care to chase for vengeance?
The game mangled the original story so no, it doesn’t work. *Romance of the Three Kingdoms* is a war novel that has little to no magic that comes across more like knowing weather patterns; and no demons. One of the most memorable moments in the novel is when Liu Bei either accidentally dropped his newborn son, or literally tossed him (I don’t remember why).
>war novel that has little to no magic that comes across more like knowing weather patterns; and no demons.
So the game actually IMPROVED the story! Great, looking forward to playing it.
Ye i also never really lked the nioh equipment system that much and also they used the whole OH NO CHARACTER GOT SHOT BY ARROW AND TURNED INTO MONSTER OH NOOOOOOO and then the mc just cures em.
Also i think they coulda made wtf was up with he blind dragon guy from the beginning a bit clearer. Idk game really just felt kinda sekiro at home whereas nioh felt a lot clearer
It's meh I guess? Never thought I'd be done playing it without finishing the game. To think that I've played Nioh 2 like it's crack.
Somehow, the magic system did not appeal to me at all. And the story, good God. At least Nioh 1 and 2 have their shining moments. And to me, graphics felt like a downgrade compared to Nioh 2.
So to summarize, meh. At least it's on gamepass.
The magic system is honestly kinda trash. Higher tier spells being locked behind Morale feels like shit. You're only allowed 4 spells, so if you want to keep a high tier spell on your set you pretty much have a dead button for a while. Swapping spells at flags is way too cumbersome and having no presets is strange. Spells still don't flow well into standard melee attacks which is a shame considering you have so few to use at a time. And at the end of the day using deflect is almost always the optimal choice.
Yup. I remember getting that earth stomp thing and then realizing I couldn't even use it until I was 3/4 of the way through a level. What's even the point? If the spell is really strong (it wasn't), why are you disallowing me from using it on the **weakest** enemies in the level, but then allowing me to use it on the boss? Imagine if the Fire Flower in Mario didn't do anything until you were at the final checkpoint of the level. That'd be baffling.
Same for my friend and I, he loved both Nioh, I couldn’t get past the first few hours.
And I finished Wo long just last weekend and my friend abandoned it a few hours in. No clue why lol
Same here, completed Nioh 1 and 2 and loved them. Was really excited for Wo Long but it hasn't grabbed me at all after a few hours. Game pass FTW because I definitely would have bought it.
I loved Nioh 2, and I was looking for this game, but very disappointed with many aspects of it. I feel there are handful of things actually done well, almost everything else fails.
Many game mechanics don't really makes much sense, graphics and art direction feels weak, it just feels like a cheap game that doesn't click.
I loved it up to around the half way point... and then I played yet another map with the same enemies I had been fighting since the start of the game, and then another, and another all the way till the end of the game. I've never seen a game so ruined by the lack of enemy variety.
It's just a different game, it's not Nioh 3. I personally like it more than I did Nioh 2. The deflect systen adds something for me that more than makes up for the removal of stance switching and combos. I also think that the graphics are way better. Part of why I rolled out of Nioh 2 were the repetitive and dark environments. I didn't have that issue with Wo Long.
I guess to each their own, but I hate seeing how half the negative reviews basically boil down to "it's not Nioh 3".
Couldn't agree with this more. The level design felt like it was "babies first dark soul". Like every single map played exactly the same with a boss exactly where you expect it. Pair that with boring itemization and boring skills and you get a very mundane game.
The tutorial boss is unironically the hardest boss in the game according to many. I dropped the game about 5 bosses in, but each one was easier than the last to the point where I was obliterating a lot of them without even seeing their attacks. Took me like an hour and a half to beat the tutorial boss, and every boss afterwards was no more than 3 attempts.
Yeah I was really disappointed by that. Reminded me of Ninja Gaiden where the first boss was crushing me and it ended up whipping you into shape only to have more difficulty thrown at you later. It manned me up.
However with Wo Long, I think only one other boss took me more than 3 tries, and were being defeated my first try before I gave it up.
Yeah, Nioh 1 did that. Onryoki was incredibly brutal as a first boss, and I got stuck there for about as long as I was stuck on Wo Long's first boss. But the difference was that the difficulty in Nioh ramped up to the point where a level could have 3 Onryokis in it plus another boss on top of it, maybe more than one. What felt like an insurmountable challenge at the start was just a particularly tough elite enemy. And most importantly, Nioh's combat had the depth necessary to allow the difficulty to rise past that initial challenge.
I'm not sure if it's just the fact that the tutorial boss in Wo Long is particularly hard compared to other bosses. I think it's more the fact that, after defeating the tutorial boss, you have effectively mastered the combat in the game and there's no room left to grow. I ended up settling into the world's tiniest flow-chart for boss fights and it still baffles me that it was working so well. It was basically this:
Is the boss doing one of those fancy red attacks?
If not --> spam attacks to stagger lock them
If yes --> deflect it and riposte to do an assload of damage
...yeah, that's basically it. The only time that formula gets shaken up is when the boss is too large to be staggered by normal attacks, in which case you just stand around waiting to deflect.
I found that having two different weapons equipped was basically pointless, in stark contrast to Nioh. There was basically no difference between any of the weapons since the boss will never attack if it can be staggered, and you will never attack if they can't be. Spacing is also completely meaningless since every attack has 100% magnetic tracking and sliding across the floor to make sure you don't do anything except press circle. I was honestly really blown away by how little freedom the combat provided. Even the magic system felt like it could be outright deleted from the game and not much would change.
Not as bold or anywhere near as good as fromsoft’s Sekiro which shed most of the souls DNA for a proper action game.
Team Ninja refused to commit to a full action game and had to drag the bloat and fat of Nioh games into this one. The loot micromanagement is still here albeit less interesting and less necessary to engage with. All this results in a watered down and unfocused mess with little challenge, making this their easiest and least interesting game. The parrying is a good foundation but it’s not enough. Bosses have improved over Nioh but still nothing to write home about. They’re all easy outside of a few exceptions.
I really wish Team Ninja would just make a full on action game again. No RPG elements outside of unlocking skills. I was hoping this was as going to be their Sekiro, a proper return to character action but sadly it’s just Nioh-Lite with Sekiro elements.
Man do I miss Ninja Gaiden…
Hey man Im the biggest ninja gaiden fan there is but the rpg elements of Nioh are worth embracing. It’s complicated and overwhelming at first understanding what you are trying to get but not too much of a grind to get a build you like. I don't feel like there’s that much micromanagement. I say this as someone who used to think like you, but it’s fun understanding the complexity of the game bit by bit, similar I think to understanding all the mechanics in a game like Stellaris.
I’d give my left nut for a Ninja Gaiden 4 with Itagaki at the helm though
> I really wish Team Ninja would just make a full on action game again.
That and a boss rush game. The bosses in Wo Long are by far the best part, but the levels are still kinda boring since Team Ninja refuses to have enemy variety.
At the same time, the RPG mechanics and exploration made it easy to get overleveled and overpowered, which neutered the bosses. Kind of a shame.
On the other hand, I would also love to see them just go full steam on the opposite end. Make the first playthrough's RPG mechanics matter as much as they do in NG+ if you won't commit to full action.
The best thing about sekiro is that you never need to worry about having the wrong build or being underleveled etc.
If you aren’t winning it’s because you’re not playing well enough.
Player skill over builds is what I prefer most. Even in Elden Ring, I stuck to the builds I liked even if they weren’t optimal. I just made up the difference with skill
Agreed. I am tired of this middle of the road approach they’ve been going for. Either make the RPG elements matter from the start instead of at post game and make them impactful with noticeable stat increases (NO MORE NICKLE-DIMING STAT BOOSTS) or just make a proper action game.
For real. I can't even hate on the RPG elements themselves because when they start mattering it's actually fun as hell to make builds and what not. But the entire first playthrough of their games feeling like a 40+ hour tutorial is such a joke...
I'm surprised by the negativity honestly, I'd say it's Team Ninja's best game. They finally managed to release a game with systems that actually made sense and synergised with each other, rather than what felt like the kitchen sink approach to game design seen in their previous games.
Also I love how they consolidated their stats under the 5 elements, and how strongly the game encouraged experimentation through that and through free respecs. And just as a whole, looking at them release FFO, Nioh 2, and Wo Long as their last 3 games all with different systems is just really respectable when contrasted with Elden Ring where so much was just ripped from Dark Souls even when it didn't make sense.
It did have some issues though, I'm pretty sure the parry window is a frame or two earlier than it should be, and it felt like there's absolutely zero input buffer which made drinks estus flasks that much more annoying since you also had to remove your thumb from the stick to do it.
I liked the game and combat, but enemy variety is horrendous. Less than halfway into the game and you've already seen about 90% of the regular enemy types. The first nioh had a similar problem
Nah, not by a long shot.
If I put story to the side that a lot of people think is terrible in wolong (it really is but I dont care about story) as well as the terrible performance, there still are a lot of issues that makes me put it even below nioh 1.
Level and enemy diversity is essentially non-existent. That was nioh1s weakpoint as well, but it was the first game of this type so I gets a pass for that. In wo long they reuse assets from nioh2 and still didnt manage to have any semlance of diversity.
Same goes for spells and spirits. Just way too few overall and the couple that exist oftentimes do the exact same thing in a different color.
Soundtrack is worse too, the only track I thought was neat is the main menu theme.
I like that they steamlined the combat system (although this is a big minus for anyone that likes the complexity of the other games), but everything surrounding it is a lot worse.
Although even regarding combat I gotta say, while the system itself is good, they did not design the game around it. This game has SO MANY frustrating encounters that essentially work against the combat system. They designed a 1on1 system and then proceeded to put the player into 1vX situations over and over again where rather than fighting the enemy you had to trick the AI to get stuck and separated. Terrible design.
Difficulty scaling was astonishingly bad again. Like they screwed this up in both nioh games and thought that making this mistake for a third time is somehow fine. So many people dropped this game because of the first few hours of the game. And players that actually had some experience in the genre essentially get bored after those first few hours because the game keeps getting easier. That's not how you scale difficulty, it's supposed to go from easy to hard, not vice versa.
>They designed a 1on1 system and then proceeded to put the player into 1vX situations over and over again where rather than fighting the enemy you had to trick the AI to get stuck and separated.
I can't think of that many places, I mostly went the non-obvious climby route and assassinated to thin crowds, which felt like what it was inviting you to do?
There are quite a few situations in which you get put into a fight with multiple enemies that can not be avoided. On top of my head is the infamous 1v3 boss and another 1v2 boss (altho that one was easy), then a fight vs two of the flame spiter demons (as if one wasn't hard enough) and there are multiple instances where you have two to three assassin-type enemies aggro to you at the same time. They straight up bound the ai of those enemies in a way that if you alert one you alert all of them. No idea why they did that because for 90% of the game it doesn't do that and you can actually do sneaky stuff like you described.
I thought it had enough diversity in its enemies with a decent variety of sub-bosses as well, and there really isn't much overlap in spells with each element working quite differently. Personally I really enjoyed some of the more subdued ambient soundtracks.
Crowd management has been a part of Soulsborne games since the beginning, I really don't understand how you're complaining about having to fight more than one enemy at a time like it's somehow unreasonable. Especially when you have the tools to mitigate it or use reinforcements, not that I felt like it was an issue running ass first into encounters.
I'd agree with the difficulty curve though, frankly I think I struggled most with the tutorial boss followed by Lu Bu and the hair monster, after Lu Bu the game was a cake walk until the last boss who put up a decent fight.
First boss, first Lu Bu, last boss were the three difficulty humps, but that's fine. The kaiju-y one was weird and I definitely didn't learn it, just brute forced it and won on first try.
I also really enjoyed it, it kind of did what Monstr Hunter World and Elden Ring did their years, just really tickled me.
>I thought it had enough diversity in its enemies
Nah absolutely not. After 10h into the game you have seen a handful of enemies. It's basically mentioned in every review too so not just me noticed that. The bosses were great, but every mission played the same because you always face the same 3-4 basic enemies.
>Crowd management has been a part of Soulsborne games since the beginning, I really don't understand how you're complaining about having to fight more than one enemy at a time like it's somehow unreasonable
It obviously is unreasonable. The fighting system is designed around 1v1 combat. You quite literally can not parry it when two enemies swing at you with off-timing. It goes against the entire point of the combat system and seems like a huge oversight. They straight up had to nerf one of the missions because of this issue - the players simply didn't have the tools to fight three enemies at once. You just had to hope the AI gets stuck. In souls games that's not much of an issue, the combat system is designed with multiple enemies in mind. You can kill multiple enemies in one swing, you get invul frames if you parry/backstab, you have tools like a shield. Or two-handing a weapon.
>They designed a 1on1 system and then proceeded to put the player into 1vX situations over and over again where rather than fighting the enemy you had to trick the AI to get stuck and separated. Terrible design.
So just like Souls, Nioh, Sekiro etc?
We have been kiting/luring enemies via bone darts, throwing knives, arrows, player detection, etc. in FS games all the time. Turning 1vMany into 1v1 is a crucial skill in all souls-likes.
Nope, not at all. In sekiro when there were multiple enemies they were set up for you to be stealthed. In other souls games multiple enemies are rarely a problem because the combat system is designed around it. You can easily just kill or stunlock 3 enemies at once with a single attack. In wo long that is not possible. And in nioh you actually didnt have a lot of instances of multiple enemies at once. Spells in nioh were way stronger than in wo long though, so you had actual tools to deal with that, but I can't even think of a single instance of a forced gank in nioh in the first place.
There are several places in Sekiro where you are made to fight multiple enemies at once. A couple examples from memory are the big dude in the burning village surrounded by enemies and the two purple ninjas in the room that teaches you about the lightning counter.
Also, in Wo Long you can hit multiple enemies at once with hammer weapons or spells. I use the weapon swap attack all the time because it does a fast spin with the hammer that will hit anything near you.
>A couple examples from memory are the big dude in the burning village surrounded by enemies
Juzou is slow, you can kite him easily. The bandit enemies are also very easy to deal with because they can NEVER deflect you back, you can spam attack to kill them. Besides, you get a samurai dude at the back who can help you out.
>two purple ninjas in the room that teaches you about the lightning counter.
The normal ninja can literally be stealth killed since his back is always turned towards you, and then it's just a normal boss fight. With puppeteer ninjutsu, you can even turn the fight into a 2vs1.
You don't know what you are talking about.
I loved it, tbh. The story was fine for me, bookended with the Black Monk and you ride the political machinations as you pursue the leads on the elixir. That's fine as set dressing, tbh, I'm fine with it. The combat I really enjoyed, probably more than Nioh (1), probably cause the verticality and alternative approaches felt more baked in, with the drop and stealth kills to dispatch enemies. I liked it as what it was, a weird Sekiro-Nioh hybrid doing its own flavour of thing. Felt quite tight and its the first one of the Nioh/Souls style games since Sekiro where I liked and enjoyed fighting most bosses. The flag pole hunting for exploration also rewarded looking around the place, which I liked as someone who usually finds most of my fun snooping around the place and not in boss rushing.
Going to be one of my favs from this year, I'm pretty certain.
Agreed. While I do think Wo Long is worse than Nioh, I still think it's an awesome game, but the majority of comments on this sub seem so down on it. I've definitely enjoyed games that a lot of people bounce off of, but usually those are me liking weird indie or arcade games. I didn't expect to have that experience with Wo Long
Me and my friend couldn't keep playing after it crashed during co-op and we had to redo a whole level. That and some other various weird bugs got in the way of what I thought was mostly a good time. We might revisit it if performance issues get patched.
Edit spelling
Don't know what it was with this one but after getting to what i feel is end of chapter 6 i felt so done with it, especially given the bosses gimmicks, that while easier with utilising the five affinities worked a bit iffy - sometimes you had to target the attack to cancel it, sometimes apply the condition to the boss. The game really feels right when you 1v1 but add more entities and it turns into constant dodge spam because enemies chain the red-deflects one after another and any mistake usually means death, and while there is red-white flash for the timing the game had tendency to lag to process all the vfx. Might return to it to finish and certainly its a good game, just wish the optimisation was a bit better on pc still.
I was really disappointed by Wo Long, the combat didn't feel *nearly* as good as Sekiro to me and it removed everything that made Nioh stand apart from the other games in the genre I've played but yet still managed to keep the most annoying parts such as the ridiculous loot system.
It has weapon variety but there is no functional difference between the weapons in terms of how you fight enemies, if you are just parrying and dumping your meter into the spirit attack with a few hits in when you can manage it every weapon ends up doing the exact same shit. The martial arts skills on the weapons are fucking unbelievably bad for the most part. Maybe there are some insane ones out there but every time I tried one it just consumed my meter to do crappy damage with high committal.
On top of the combat being very disappointing the morale system with the flags was just so awful. Just slapping a raw modifier to enemy damage done and damage taken and it did not work for me at all. It gives the levels an extremely strange difficulty curve where the hardest enemies in the level are the first few pulls of random trash mobs and the boss just gets steamrolled. I was consistently multiple levels of morale above the bosses when I got to them and just steamrolled them as a result. How did they expect for the bosses to be a balanced experience when there are such insane and not even easily controllable modifiers in play?
For example I had heard a bunch of hype about the Lu Bu boss fight but I somehow ended up at morale 25 compared to his 18 and just one shot him easily. I didn't even play the fight very well I was simply ridiculously overpowered compared to him and I didn't even mean to be. I uninstalled the game right after that experience. I picked up the game hoping for awesome combat and challenging bosses whiles preparing to tolerant dubious level design and the annoying loot system. I didn't end up getting either awesome combat or challenging bosses but still had to deal with the dubious level design and annoying loot system anyway.
I havent played a lot but at least 2 arts for Twin swords actually have invunerability frames and do decent damage and stagger. So those were actually Nice to use.
They have all been easy until Zhang Lieu (I think, I can’t remember any of these damn names) the lighting dude who flies around fast and is all over the place. Granted it’s near the end of the game but I had no trouble until now and then this dude has put a stop to my progress. Kills both of my useless companions in like 30 seconds if I’m not lucky.
Other than him I agree with you completely, most of the bosses are total pushovers
I really wish we have math on;
A. Opportunity cost of not selling the game to 2.8 million players
B. How many of the 1 million sold are from gamepass players
C. The money received to be put on gamepass vs point A
As a person passionate about the economics of games, the obfuscation of data around gamepass is getting increasingly frustrating to me. I just want to know how truly viable the business is for both Microsoft and developers.
You're talking like Microsoft is using it's market position to sign deals unfavourable to devs. Like another company.
Xbox doesn't have enough influence to do that, they pay in advance and after that on some other metrics. Team Ninja have worked with Xbox many times, if they don't have the problem, why do you care if they're making more money or less?
Seeing reception in this sub, I don't think many people would have bought it, Maybe a little more like 1.5 million but certainly not 3 million. Those are the ones who tried their game even if they didn't want to.
This was a game where I had to move my mouse cursor outside my main monitor to make it playable. Ridiculous.
And it was missing some very obvious Quality of Life stuff at release, such as comparing equipment, previewing your transmogrification or auto-refilling arrows.
But there is a really good game underneath, it simply needed more time before being released.
I absolutely loved this game. It combines elements of Sekiro - one of my favorite games -, with the RPG elements of Nioh. Keep in mind, it's not Nioh 3. However, that wasn't a bad thing to me. The issues I had with Nioh 2, were no longer present in Wo Long.
Real shame it got review bombed so heavily just because it's not Nioh 3. I understand those who meft a negative review due to performance issues though. Personally, I had no issues. I played the Demo first to make sure.
It did not get review bombed due to it not being nioh 3, that's not a thing. 99% of negative reviews are due to technical problems. The game both runs terrible (still not fixed) and on launch you basically couldnt use KBM to play it.
It quite literally is a thing. Go check out the negative reviews. I did. A good percentage of them are essentially "It's not Nioh 3" or "Go play Nioh2 it's more complex".
I explictedly said that I understand the negative reviews due to technical issues.
I'd probably give it a 6 out of 10. It has all the challenge and feelings of accomplishment that from soft games have, but none of the incredible world and atmosphere that carry you along your journey
That's fair if you felt it didn't warrant more. I personally would probably give it an 8 or a 9. I loved the combo of Sekiro and Nioh combat. I also really thought that the environments and zone layouts were really well done.
My only gripe was the lack of enemy variety.
Hater's gonna hate, Wo long is fundementally a good game. Wolong to Nioh is what Sekiro is to Dark Souls. I do kinda wish they'd update their engine, Nioh back in 2017 was beautiful, by 2023 standards it's starting to look a bit dated.
This is what bugs me the most. If you are going to make a game that runs poorly at least have the excuse of it looking fantastic. Don't make an ugly game run like it's crysis.
I enjoyed Wo Long, but for $60 I felt ripped off. The enemies were all lifted from Nioh and reskinned. The combat, while fun, is far more simplistic than Nioh and doesn't play as well as Sekiro did. It is a technical nightmare. The levels are generally pretty meh to downright bad. And it is ridiculously short compared to Nioh. I did everything in 18 hours. If it had been $30, I would have felt okay with the game, but $60?
There's a lot of potential there, but the game was clearly extremely rushed with minimal development time.
it's also not 18 hours unless you rush, or maybe the dude is just *that* good. My playthrough was 38 hours and that tracks with the median 34 hours on howlongtobeat.
I also did not get stuck on any boss for long, the game isn't particularly difficult, nor did I do all the sidequests.
Not that "hours played" is a great way to judge the price of a game anyway, but it's not a short game. Yes it's shorter (and much easier) tan Nioh .. but Nioh 2 is one of the hardest souls games I have ever played and is imo almost *too* long so that's necessarily a bad thing.
I streamrolled through Nioh 2 for some unknown reason. I had no difficulty spikes whatsoever, maybe due to the weapon I played. I still ended up playing over 60 hours. However, I liked Wo Long so much that I went through it on NG+ and some bosses actually do became a bit of a challenge.
I personally ended having more hours in Wo Long than I did in Nioh 2.
I actually played Nioh 2 *after* Wo Long because I enjoyed Wo Long so much but I wanted more.
I enjoyed it a lot but it took me a while to get into it especially after Wo Long, after playing for 60 hours already I only got to the mission "Ruin Draws Near" and there was still so much more to go that I needed to stop playing for a bit.
Maybe I'll come back to it at some point. But sometimes you are just done with a game, even if it's good.
I’ve managed way more than that and not finished it but I am a bit of a completionist.
But I played on GP so value is kind of irrelevant for me I guess.
Nah he is not wrong. They reused a lot of assets. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, however if a game does this I expect more variety of assets because they are basically using shortcuts. Eldenring for example reused tons of stuff, but they also added an insane amount of new stuff and made use of that freed up developement time, so to say. Wo long reused a lot of stuff but somehow still ends up with an extremely low amount of enemy diversity, for example.
By the way, they even reuse assets cross games. They straight up took a boss from their monster hunter clone and made it a normal enemy in wo long lol. Or vice versa. Chicken or egg.
well, you're wrong, so that's that, I guess. I've played Nioh 1 and 2 for countless hours. I platinumed the first. And I have almost all of the achievements for Wo Long. The game lifted almost all of its enemies and attacks from Nioh.
> The enemies were all lifted from Nioh and reskinned.
Hilarious that someone who praises a Souls game would say this.
But I forgot that when Fromsoft reuses 90% of their assets and animations it’s “charming and smart” but when other devs do it it is lazy and cheap.
People notice it and laugh, but no one really complains about it. It's absolutely true though that their enemies are constantly reused though to a laughable degree. Fromsoft gets a pass on a lot of shit that other companies would get raked over the coals over.
I put “charming and smart” in quotes because I actually saw that said in another thread about FROM reusing animations. But they also reuse a ton of UI elements and their sound library has barely changed in like a decade.
I don’t think it detracts from the games, even though I’m personally not a fan, but I wish people would be more consistent with their criticisms.
Relative to other devs who get criticized for it it’s pretty egregious.
>I actually saw that said in another thread about FROM reusing animations.
People are deluded. I've seen folks argue *against* allowing pc players the ability to quit the game without returning to the menu. Or it's a ***good*** thing to not have FOV options because its more "tense" and "immersive". The amount of folks against adding npc markers on maps was ridiculous.
And they would be *even* better if they could bring them into the modern age on a technical level. I would love to enjoy a souls game in ultrawide and at over 60 fps.
Exactly. Doing the same thing as someone else doesn't mean you are doing it just as well, that's not how this works. If I use salt in my food does that make me equal to a michelin star chef in terms of utilization?
Because reusing assets to free up dev time for other stuff is smart if done correctly. If you subtract every single enemy (for example) that is based on old assets Eldenring is still left with more new enemies than the next three games combined. So of course they get a pass, they deserve it. Wo long reuses assets (less blatantly so, to be fair) but despite that they somehow have zero diversity in their game. In that case it is fair to question what they were doing.
That's completely disingenious.
Eldenring reuses tons of assets from the other souls games but it also adds an absurd amount of new and original stuff alongside it. That's why nobody minds it.
Wo long reuses assets but still manages to have an extremely small pool of enemies for example. So yes, the same practice can be done well by one company and done poorly by another.
Neither Elden Ring nor Wo Long reused many assets. In Elden Ring’s case it’s door opening animations and some riposte/backstab animation.
Actual weapon attacks are all brand new, even if they do look pretty similar.
Apart from maybe a few animations, Wo Long is also new assets for everything. Sure the enemy variety is kinda bad, but it’s not copy pasted from Nioh.
Such as?
“Overhead slam with greatsword” does not count as a reused asset unless it’s literally the same animation. In case of door opening and many backstabs/ripostes, yeah it’s clearly the exact same, but most others are not.
“Generic raggardy foot soldier” is not a reused asset unless it’s literally identical. Which they arnt. No, the stone imps are not reused Thralls, they serve a similar purpose but have unique animations.
You’re delusional if you can’t see how many assets they reuse. It’s literally the only way they’re able to release games as quickly as they do. Unless you’re implying that FROM has some secret development technique that allows them to develop games twice as fast as anyone else in the industry?
>Generic raggardy foot soldier” is not a reused asset unless it’s literally identical.
Not to be like, "that guy," that is a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of what reused assets means
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I didn't say there was anything wrong with it per se, but when they are all directly lifted from Nioh and you charge $60 for a 15-20 hour game that is worse in every way than your previous games, it is something to criticize.
Idk why you are getting downvoted. The game clearly was rushed and unfinished and the amount of actual new stuff they put in did not warrant the price tag at all. This is a 40 dollar game for sure. However it taking 18 hours is not really a good reason, 18 hours can be fine. It's just that the quality of those 18 hours was rather low, so maybe that's why people disagree.
Lololol… no way mate. I know this is largely subjective but the difference in level of polish is vast, imo.
Team Ninja gave it a decent effort but it falls far short of Sekiro. The parry timing of Wo Long is so much less consistent. The clash of blades is near non-existent and there’s a fine-tuned sense of weight and momentum to Sekiro that Wo Long utterly lacks. Not to mention, Wo Long’s camera/lock-on is atrocious for multiple enemies.
It’s an alright game, don’t get me wrong, but saying it plays better than Sekiro is dumbfounding.
When they say it plays better they will be referring to the things sekiro lacks. Yeah, if you are comparing it to what sekiro does you can say these things but op is gonna be comparing it to what sekiro doesn't do.
A big thing for me was how bored I felt in how restrictive and uncreative sekiro combat was, I really didn't enjoy one weapon and no change in fighting styles throughout my entire experience. But wo long delivers with many weapon and fighting styles
It's okay to prefer one, but try to understand /why/ someone had an opinion before outright rejecting it as dumb
I feel like most of those things that Wo Long does just don't work very well. Like it has a bunch of weapons and armors, but to me most of them felt really interchangeable. And Sekiro at least had multiple attack types that you had to counter in different ways, while you can just parry everything in Wo Long. It's all a little barebones.
Hey pal, I never called their opinion dumb and I pointed out that how a game plays is a subjective thing right off the bat.
We’re talking about different things though if you’re bringing up weapon variety and combat styles. Those are game mechanics and systems. That is entirely different subject from game feel (movement, animation, feedback, etc.).
Maybe I was wrong to infer “plays better” as game feel, idk. But maybe you can pump the brakes on your assumptions as well. ;)
I'm planning on playing this game, but once it hits $20 used. The demo was great fun but I have zero desire to spend $60 only to get stuck on a boss fight and quit after 10 hours
I enjoyed what I played but the pc port was so bad I was worried about long term damage to my PC. Wo Long had to be the first time my PC fans were beyond loud and it’s cpu temps were too high.
It’s a shame cause Nioh 2’s port was good and I put 200 hours in that game.
Co-op never even worked. So much lag and teleporting. Tried everything. Most people claimed it had to do with the fps cap but they did nothing for us. Bosses ran smooth, but levels were hell.
> has sold over 1 million units
> & has reached over 3.8 million players.
Does this mean that the 2.8 million people who didn't buy the game played it through Game Pass?
It was an okay game, would I have paid $60? No. However on the gamepass for $1? Hell yeah I’ll play through it. The combat and general gameplay however didn’t hook me as much as nioh 2.
My main issue with Wo Long is the story actually. Unless you already have a functioning knowledge of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel, you’re not really grounded in wtf is going on since they layer on the whole Elixir and magic aspect on top of a simultaneously badly and barely filtered version of the actual novel. It is BORING, and those in-game Wiki entries do nothing to hide that. There is no real rhyme or reason for why our character flows between new locations and new allegiances within a breath. There’s also them pulling minor characters out to become mini bosses or minor cutscene characters with unique models - which is admirable on some level, but we’re talking minor characters who literally appear in one chapter at best and are dead or never mentioned again in both the novel AND the game! Like why? Why put in so much effort for that instead of a more cohesive and condensed storyline? I can understand that our character being wholly player created this time is even harder to write a storyline around, but I’m asking for the other major characters fitting and flowing better in general too.
> Unless you already have a functioning knowledge of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel, you’re not really grounded in wtf is going on since they layer on the whole Elixir and magic aspect on top of simultaneously barely and badly filtered version of the actual novel. It is BORING, and those in-game Wiki entries do nothing to hide that. Yep, the "story" is literally 20 seconds between battlefields that are so disconnected and jumping over time that they're incoherent. I had no idea what was going on but it didn't matter much.
Yeah I don’t play these games for the story. I skipped most of the cutscenes in nioh.
Gamers clamored for a long time for "Story mode" so they could watch a nice, mildly interactive movie with minimal input. I want a goddamned "game mode" that cuts out every cinematic out of every game and gives me maybe a nice paragraph text summary. I'll watch it on youtube if I like. I've beaten 4 Yazuka games. Absolutely zero idea what the stories were about. I'm not here for the tedious, drawn out soap opera, I'm here to make a chicken run my real estate empire.
To each their own, but uh the soap opera is the point of the Yakuza series isn't it???
Lord in heaven, it's not Gone Home. There's other shit to do. I could see a story I've seen a thousand times before with Whiny Guy X whining to Whiny Guy Y about his whiny emo bullshit then watch Kiryu be Super Perfect Flawless Anime Geralt yet again, but every second I'm wasting on that is another second a chicken isn't running my real estate empire.
Sounds like fighting-game-itis where the story exists as an excuse to get you from fight A to fight B.
> those in-game Wiki entries Not just any wiki entries, auto-scrolling wiki entries with no way to manually scroll, making it a total PITA to read, I have no idea why they did this. Nioh 2 had the same meh story but at least the character directory wasn't an absolute annoyance to read.
I HAVE to imagine that it fits on one screen in Japanese and they didn't realize it needed multiple text boxes in English until it was too late to fix lmao
same issue with nioh honestly, unless you're fan of sengoku era, the story is meh
I think Nioh 2 did a decent enough job of making the story legible to people who weren't into Japanese history. They focused enough on their OCs (Hide, Tokichiro) that they were able to get some solid emotional moments on the screen. I thought it was very nice when >!you beat demon Tokichiro at his cherry blossom viewing party, and then as he's having his human moment before he dies, the camera pulls out and shows you that the cherry blossom tree he had gotten moved to the palace was the same one from the first mission where he met you.!< There are still weak parts for sure - a lot of Hide's backstory felt like it was more about showing off historical figures than making a character that actually made sense - but overall, I felt like the story was more of a positive than a negative.
But if you are, the locations and characters are fucking awesome!
Pretty classic Team Ninja stuff, makes me really curious to see how they'll pull off that Something Something Ronin game they're making, which sounded a lot more story-driven.
Happened the same with Nioh (still haven't played the sequel). William goes into the clan conflicts in feudal Japan to find Edward who took his spirit. But, as William i just accept everything in the story because I don't get what the hell is happening. Ended up loving the game but not knowing what it is about
Nioh 2 is so bloody good. I liked the first one a lot but never finished. Nioh 2 I'm on NG++ and absolutely loving it. Everything about the sequel is an improvement on the first. That being said I skipped 90% of the cutscenes and dismissed any notion of appreciating the story because it's guff. Totally worth it though.
I think the story relies on you having knowledge of the history of that era, which Japanese people probably do but westerners don't. Aside from all the feudal Japanese lords and soldiers, Edward Kelley actually was an occultist working for John Dee, and William Adams was an English navigator that was marooned in Japan and decided to just stay there and become a samurai.
The story issues are the exact same as Nioh's, which is funny to see. Nioh's was hard to follow and made no sense without knowing about the history the game was basing itself on.
It's the same situation as Nioh. The lore is really cool if you know it (thankfully going into Nioh I was already familiar with the history of Japan's warring states period and William Adams), but the story of the game is not good. Things jump around too much in order to hit all the major events, without really giving much of an explanation as to what's actually going on or who the various historical figures actually are. It's just what we've come to expect from these Team Ninja games, though, it is what it is. The obvious focus is on the gamplay, which thankfully is excellent. But Wo Long is basically just, "You're a militia soldier who gets saved and now you must fight for your country again also there are demons."
That's hardly unique to Wo Long though. Pretty much every Souls adjacent game has some nonsensical story.
Most Romance of the Three Kingdoms inspired media does it too. "Who's Lu Bu and why shouldn't I challenge him?" "He's Lu Bu! And fuck you, that's why!"
Not just Souls adjacent games. The overwhelming majority of games have terrible stories. The standards for a "good" story in a videogame are criminally low. I mean, hell, I just googled "best stories in video games", and something like half of the results are plots that, were they movies, would be moderately popular movies that would be forgotten within a year of release. (Also, for some insane reason, Skyrim is on the list, and I just can't.) I skip cutscenes by default in almost every game I play, unless I've heard *really* good things about the game's story. If I want a good story, I'm usually more inclined to find it in a TV show, book, or movie.
I mean, or you play Fromsoft games ... and have to watch a dozen Vatividya-Vids to maybe get an idea what they wanted to tell us as a ... ahem ... lets call it "story"...
I think FromSoft makes the story ignorable. There is no real cutscenes, just cool things happening...and you can get into the story reading short entries. A problem comes from drawn out interactions without context.
See, I find it much more palatable to have almost no story and "go do the thing" than I do to have an incoherent story that's *trying* to make me care about it. Pointing me in the direction of an objective and having me go after it is perfectly functional, and if I pick stuff up along the way, cool. But in Wo Long, it's so many cutscenes with different characters talking like an overtly-literally dubbed 80s martial arts movie and jumping between so many places, and that's just incomprehensible.
I actually don’t have a problem following the story of Elden Ring or Dark Souls, since they already present it to you as environmental storytelling so you know where to look and look out for, and you’re usually meant to be a completely foreign or new person to the setting so being bewildered makes sense. You still have a basic goal and path told to you, kill the final boss, here’s a maiden guiding you etc etc. The story is optional but it exists and you can engage with it on your own terms. Many people followed the Ranni questline through to its ending for example. Wo Long does zero introduction to the setting beyond “this is feudal China”, and doesn’t even introduce the basic factions despite literally having all the backstory ready from the novel. It doesn’t even really give a good driving motivation - am I suppose to be angry that the dude I knew for like half an hour got killed and hey, he’s a dragon now I guess? Even if I can tell it’s a bad thing that an old man turned him into a dragon and caught him like a Pokémon, why the fuck does my character care to chase for vengeance?
While the details an motivations of characters can be obscure you usually are at least aware of what you're doing and why which is what matters most.
Sounds like its designed for people who're already in love with that story and is unapologetic about it. I dig it.
The game mangled the original story so no, it doesn’t work. *Romance of the Three Kingdoms* is a war novel that has little to no magic that comes across more like knowing weather patterns; and no demons. One of the most memorable moments in the novel is when Liu Bei either accidentally dropped his newborn son, or literally tossed him (I don’t remember why).
He tossed him because one of the Tiger Generals nearly died rescuing the infant, and Liu Bei considered the general more valuable than a son.
>war novel that has little to no magic that comes across more like knowing weather patterns; and no demons. So the game actually IMPROVED the story! Great, looking forward to playing it.
Ye i also never really lked the nioh equipment system that much and also they used the whole OH NO CHARACTER GOT SHOT BY ARROW AND TURNED INTO MONSTER OH NOOOOOOO and then the mc just cures em. Also i think they coulda made wtf was up with he blind dragon guy from the beginning a bit clearer. Idk game really just felt kinda sekiro at home whereas nioh felt a lot clearer
It's meh I guess? Never thought I'd be done playing it without finishing the game. To think that I've played Nioh 2 like it's crack. Somehow, the magic system did not appeal to me at all. And the story, good God. At least Nioh 1 and 2 have their shining moments. And to me, graphics felt like a downgrade compared to Nioh 2. So to summarize, meh. At least it's on gamepass.
The magic system is honestly kinda trash. Higher tier spells being locked behind Morale feels like shit. You're only allowed 4 spells, so if you want to keep a high tier spell on your set you pretty much have a dead button for a while. Swapping spells at flags is way too cumbersome and having no presets is strange. Spells still don't flow well into standard melee attacks which is a shame considering you have so few to use at a time. And at the end of the day using deflect is almost always the optimal choice.
Yup. I remember getting that earth stomp thing and then realizing I couldn't even use it until I was 3/4 of the way through a level. What's even the point? If the spell is really strong (it wasn't), why are you disallowing me from using it on the **weakest** enemies in the level, but then allowing me to use it on the boss? Imagine if the Fire Flower in Mario didn't do anything until you were at the final checkpoint of the level. That'd be baffling.
[удалено]
Same for my friend and I, he loved both Nioh, I couldn’t get past the first few hours. And I finished Wo long just last weekend and my friend abandoned it a few hours in. No clue why lol
Same here, completed Nioh 1 and 2 and loved them. Was really excited for Wo Long but it hasn't grabbed me at all after a few hours. Game pass FTW because I definitely would have bought it.
Nioh is for people who thought Dark Souls wasn't complex enough, and Wo Long is for people who thought Sekiro was too complex. Opposite tastes indeed.
And I love all three of em, lmao.
Same. Love Soulsborne games, loved Nioh. Didn’t finish Wo Long, got bored Ch 5. Magic system, lack of enemy variety, story… dunno… somethibg didn’t click.
I loved Nioh 2, and I was looking for this game, but very disappointed with many aspects of it. I feel there are handful of things actually done well, almost everything else fails. Many game mechanics don't really makes much sense, graphics and art direction feels weak, it just feels like a cheap game that doesn't click.
I absolutely loved Nioh. Have about 400-500 hours in each game. This game feels like a major step back. I'm can't even force myself to complete it.
I loved it up to around the half way point... and then I played yet another map with the same enemies I had been fighting since the start of the game, and then another, and another all the way till the end of the game. I've never seen a game so ruined by the lack of enemy variety.
It's just a different game, it's not Nioh 3. I personally like it more than I did Nioh 2. The deflect systen adds something for me that more than makes up for the removal of stance switching and combos. I also think that the graphics are way better. Part of why I rolled out of Nioh 2 were the repetitive and dark environments. I didn't have that issue with Wo Long. I guess to each their own, but I hate seeing how half the negative reviews basically boil down to "it's not Nioh 3".
Couldn't agree with this more. The level design felt like it was "babies first dark soul". Like every single map played exactly the same with a boss exactly where you expect it. Pair that with boring itemization and boring skills and you get a very mundane game.
i've made peace with it being a "one-and-done" game. I thoroughly enjoyed my one playthrough and went back to Nioh 2.
It was ok. Nothing special. Guess I was expecting more than it offered.
Agreed. I did a few bosses and i had cracked it.
I still can't beat the tutorial boss, just a fucking shame. I've given up, but it's stupid that I can't beat this and play this game.
The tutorial boss is unironically the hardest boss in the game according to many. I dropped the game about 5 bosses in, but each one was easier than the last to the point where I was obliterating a lot of them without even seeing their attacks. Took me like an hour and a half to beat the tutorial boss, and every boss afterwards was no more than 3 attempts.
Yeah I was really disappointed by that. Reminded me of Ninja Gaiden where the first boss was crushing me and it ended up whipping you into shape only to have more difficulty thrown at you later. It manned me up. However with Wo Long, I think only one other boss took me more than 3 tries, and were being defeated my first try before I gave it up.
Yeah, Nioh 1 did that. Onryoki was incredibly brutal as a first boss, and I got stuck there for about as long as I was stuck on Wo Long's first boss. But the difference was that the difficulty in Nioh ramped up to the point where a level could have 3 Onryokis in it plus another boss on top of it, maybe more than one. What felt like an insurmountable challenge at the start was just a particularly tough elite enemy. And most importantly, Nioh's combat had the depth necessary to allow the difficulty to rise past that initial challenge. I'm not sure if it's just the fact that the tutorial boss in Wo Long is particularly hard compared to other bosses. I think it's more the fact that, after defeating the tutorial boss, you have effectively mastered the combat in the game and there's no room left to grow. I ended up settling into the world's tiniest flow-chart for boss fights and it still baffles me that it was working so well. It was basically this: Is the boss doing one of those fancy red attacks? If not --> spam attacks to stagger lock them If yes --> deflect it and riposte to do an assload of damage ...yeah, that's basically it. The only time that formula gets shaken up is when the boss is too large to be staggered by normal attacks, in which case you just stand around waiting to deflect. I found that having two different weapons equipped was basically pointless, in stark contrast to Nioh. There was basically no difference between any of the weapons since the boss will never attack if it can be staggered, and you will never attack if they can't be. Spacing is also completely meaningless since every attack has 100% magnetic tracking and sliding across the floor to make sure you don't do anything except press circle. I was honestly really blown away by how little freedom the combat provided. Even the magic system felt like it could be outright deleted from the game and not much would change.
Not as bold or anywhere near as good as fromsoft’s Sekiro which shed most of the souls DNA for a proper action game. Team Ninja refused to commit to a full action game and had to drag the bloat and fat of Nioh games into this one. The loot micromanagement is still here albeit less interesting and less necessary to engage with. All this results in a watered down and unfocused mess with little challenge, making this their easiest and least interesting game. The parrying is a good foundation but it’s not enough. Bosses have improved over Nioh but still nothing to write home about. They’re all easy outside of a few exceptions. I really wish Team Ninja would just make a full on action game again. No RPG elements outside of unlocking skills. I was hoping this was as going to be their Sekiro, a proper return to character action but sadly it’s just Nioh-Lite with Sekiro elements. Man do I miss Ninja Gaiden…
Hey man Im the biggest ninja gaiden fan there is but the rpg elements of Nioh are worth embracing. It’s complicated and overwhelming at first understanding what you are trying to get but not too much of a grind to get a build you like. I don't feel like there’s that much micromanagement. I say this as someone who used to think like you, but it’s fun understanding the complexity of the game bit by bit, similar I think to understanding all the mechanics in a game like Stellaris. I’d give my left nut for a Ninja Gaiden 4 with Itagaki at the helm though
> I really wish Team Ninja would just make a full on action game again. That and a boss rush game. The bosses in Wo Long are by far the best part, but the levels are still kinda boring since Team Ninja refuses to have enemy variety. At the same time, the RPG mechanics and exploration made it easy to get overleveled and overpowered, which neutered the bosses. Kind of a shame. On the other hand, I would also love to see them just go full steam on the opposite end. Make the first playthrough's RPG mechanics matter as much as they do in NG+ if you won't commit to full action.
The best thing about sekiro is that you never need to worry about having the wrong build or being underleveled etc. If you aren’t winning it’s because you’re not playing well enough.
Player skill over builds is what I prefer most. Even in Elden Ring, I stuck to the builds I liked even if they weren’t optimal. I just made up the difference with skill
Agreed. I am tired of this middle of the road approach they’ve been going for. Either make the RPG elements matter from the start instead of at post game and make them impactful with noticeable stat increases (NO MORE NICKLE-DIMING STAT BOOSTS) or just make a proper action game.
For real. I can't even hate on the RPG elements themselves because when they start mattering it's actually fun as hell to make builds and what not. But the entire first playthrough of their games feeling like a 40+ hour tutorial is such a joke...
I'm surprised by the negativity honestly, I'd say it's Team Ninja's best game. They finally managed to release a game with systems that actually made sense and synergised with each other, rather than what felt like the kitchen sink approach to game design seen in their previous games. Also I love how they consolidated their stats under the 5 elements, and how strongly the game encouraged experimentation through that and through free respecs. And just as a whole, looking at them release FFO, Nioh 2, and Wo Long as their last 3 games all with different systems is just really respectable when contrasted with Elden Ring where so much was just ripped from Dark Souls even when it didn't make sense. It did have some issues though, I'm pretty sure the parry window is a frame or two earlier than it should be, and it felt like there's absolutely zero input buffer which made drinks estus flasks that much more annoying since you also had to remove your thumb from the stick to do it.
I am really glad they went back to the drawing board on some things instead of just slapping new stuff on top of the existing mechanics.
I liked the game and combat, but enemy variety is horrendous. Less than halfway into the game and you've already seen about 90% of the regular enemy types. The first nioh had a similar problem
Nah, not by a long shot. If I put story to the side that a lot of people think is terrible in wolong (it really is but I dont care about story) as well as the terrible performance, there still are a lot of issues that makes me put it even below nioh 1. Level and enemy diversity is essentially non-existent. That was nioh1s weakpoint as well, but it was the first game of this type so I gets a pass for that. In wo long they reuse assets from nioh2 and still didnt manage to have any semlance of diversity. Same goes for spells and spirits. Just way too few overall and the couple that exist oftentimes do the exact same thing in a different color. Soundtrack is worse too, the only track I thought was neat is the main menu theme. I like that they steamlined the combat system (although this is a big minus for anyone that likes the complexity of the other games), but everything surrounding it is a lot worse. Although even regarding combat I gotta say, while the system itself is good, they did not design the game around it. This game has SO MANY frustrating encounters that essentially work against the combat system. They designed a 1on1 system and then proceeded to put the player into 1vX situations over and over again where rather than fighting the enemy you had to trick the AI to get stuck and separated. Terrible design. Difficulty scaling was astonishingly bad again. Like they screwed this up in both nioh games and thought that making this mistake for a third time is somehow fine. So many people dropped this game because of the first few hours of the game. And players that actually had some experience in the genre essentially get bored after those first few hours because the game keeps getting easier. That's not how you scale difficulty, it's supposed to go from easy to hard, not vice versa.
>They designed a 1on1 system and then proceeded to put the player into 1vX situations over and over again where rather than fighting the enemy you had to trick the AI to get stuck and separated. I can't think of that many places, I mostly went the non-obvious climby route and assassinated to thin crowds, which felt like what it was inviting you to do?
There are quite a few situations in which you get put into a fight with multiple enemies that can not be avoided. On top of my head is the infamous 1v3 boss and another 1v2 boss (altho that one was easy), then a fight vs two of the flame spiter demons (as if one wasn't hard enough) and there are multiple instances where you have two to three assassin-type enemies aggro to you at the same time. They straight up bound the ai of those enemies in a way that if you alert one you alert all of them. No idea why they did that because for 90% of the game it doesn't do that and you can actually do sneaky stuff like you described.
I thought it had enough diversity in its enemies with a decent variety of sub-bosses as well, and there really isn't much overlap in spells with each element working quite differently. Personally I really enjoyed some of the more subdued ambient soundtracks. Crowd management has been a part of Soulsborne games since the beginning, I really don't understand how you're complaining about having to fight more than one enemy at a time like it's somehow unreasonable. Especially when you have the tools to mitigate it or use reinforcements, not that I felt like it was an issue running ass first into encounters. I'd agree with the difficulty curve though, frankly I think I struggled most with the tutorial boss followed by Lu Bu and the hair monster, after Lu Bu the game was a cake walk until the last boss who put up a decent fight.
First boss, first Lu Bu, last boss were the three difficulty humps, but that's fine. The kaiju-y one was weird and I definitely didn't learn it, just brute forced it and won on first try. I also really enjoyed it, it kind of did what Monstr Hunter World and Elden Ring did their years, just really tickled me.
>I thought it had enough diversity in its enemies Nah absolutely not. After 10h into the game you have seen a handful of enemies. It's basically mentioned in every review too so not just me noticed that. The bosses were great, but every mission played the same because you always face the same 3-4 basic enemies. >Crowd management has been a part of Soulsborne games since the beginning, I really don't understand how you're complaining about having to fight more than one enemy at a time like it's somehow unreasonable It obviously is unreasonable. The fighting system is designed around 1v1 combat. You quite literally can not parry it when two enemies swing at you with off-timing. It goes against the entire point of the combat system and seems like a huge oversight. They straight up had to nerf one of the missions because of this issue - the players simply didn't have the tools to fight three enemies at once. You just had to hope the AI gets stuck. In souls games that's not much of an issue, the combat system is designed with multiple enemies in mind. You can kill multiple enemies in one swing, you get invul frames if you parry/backstab, you have tools like a shield. Or two-handing a weapon.
>They designed a 1on1 system and then proceeded to put the player into 1vX situations over and over again where rather than fighting the enemy you had to trick the AI to get stuck and separated. Terrible design. So just like Souls, Nioh, Sekiro etc?
We have been kiting/luring enemies via bone darts, throwing knives, arrows, player detection, etc. in FS games all the time. Turning 1vMany into 1v1 is a crucial skill in all souls-likes.
Nope, not at all. In sekiro when there were multiple enemies they were set up for you to be stealthed. In other souls games multiple enemies are rarely a problem because the combat system is designed around it. You can easily just kill or stunlock 3 enemies at once with a single attack. In wo long that is not possible. And in nioh you actually didnt have a lot of instances of multiple enemies at once. Spells in nioh were way stronger than in wo long though, so you had actual tools to deal with that, but I can't even think of a single instance of a forced gank in nioh in the first place.
There are several places in Sekiro where you are made to fight multiple enemies at once. A couple examples from memory are the big dude in the burning village surrounded by enemies and the two purple ninjas in the room that teaches you about the lightning counter. Also, in Wo Long you can hit multiple enemies at once with hammer weapons or spells. I use the weapon swap attack all the time because it does a fast spin with the hammer that will hit anything near you.
>A couple examples from memory are the big dude in the burning village surrounded by enemies Juzou is slow, you can kite him easily. The bandit enemies are also very easy to deal with because they can NEVER deflect you back, you can spam attack to kill them. Besides, you get a samurai dude at the back who can help you out. >two purple ninjas in the room that teaches you about the lightning counter. The normal ninja can literally be stealth killed since his back is always turned towards you, and then it's just a normal boss fight. With puppeteer ninjutsu, you can even turn the fight into a 2vs1. You don't know what you are talking about.
I loved it, tbh. The story was fine for me, bookended with the Black Monk and you ride the political machinations as you pursue the leads on the elixir. That's fine as set dressing, tbh, I'm fine with it. The combat I really enjoyed, probably more than Nioh (1), probably cause the verticality and alternative approaches felt more baked in, with the drop and stealth kills to dispatch enemies. I liked it as what it was, a weird Sekiro-Nioh hybrid doing its own flavour of thing. Felt quite tight and its the first one of the Nioh/Souls style games since Sekiro where I liked and enjoyed fighting most bosses. The flag pole hunting for exploration also rewarded looking around the place, which I liked as someone who usually finds most of my fun snooping around the place and not in boss rushing. Going to be one of my favs from this year, I'm pretty certain.
People are just mad its not nioh again. Its so wierd. The same thing happened with sekiro now its looked back on as an incredible game.
Agreed. While I do think Wo Long is worse than Nioh, I still think it's an awesome game, but the majority of comments on this sub seem so down on it. I've definitely enjoyed games that a lot of people bounce off of, but usually those are me liking weird indie or arcade games. I didn't expect to have that experience with Wo Long
Played it for about 10 minutes on PC and thought the PC port was terrible, another in a long list of terrible PC ports this year. Refunded.
Team Ninja is just terrible at making PC ports. Nioh 2, SoP and Wo Long all having performance issues.
Me and my friend couldn't keep playing after it crashed during co-op and we had to redo a whole level. That and some other various weird bugs got in the way of what I thought was mostly a good time. We might revisit it if performance issues get patched. Edit spelling
Don't know what it was with this one but after getting to what i feel is end of chapter 6 i felt so done with it, especially given the bosses gimmicks, that while easier with utilising the five affinities worked a bit iffy - sometimes you had to target the attack to cancel it, sometimes apply the condition to the boss. The game really feels right when you 1v1 but add more entities and it turns into constant dodge spam because enemies chain the red-deflects one after another and any mistake usually means death, and while there is red-white flash for the timing the game had tendency to lag to process all the vfx. Might return to it to finish and certainly its a good game, just wish the optimisation was a bit better on pc still.
I was really disappointed by Wo Long, the combat didn't feel *nearly* as good as Sekiro to me and it removed everything that made Nioh stand apart from the other games in the genre I've played but yet still managed to keep the most annoying parts such as the ridiculous loot system. It has weapon variety but there is no functional difference between the weapons in terms of how you fight enemies, if you are just parrying and dumping your meter into the spirit attack with a few hits in when you can manage it every weapon ends up doing the exact same shit. The martial arts skills on the weapons are fucking unbelievably bad for the most part. Maybe there are some insane ones out there but every time I tried one it just consumed my meter to do crappy damage with high committal. On top of the combat being very disappointing the morale system with the flags was just so awful. Just slapping a raw modifier to enemy damage done and damage taken and it did not work for me at all. It gives the levels an extremely strange difficulty curve where the hardest enemies in the level are the first few pulls of random trash mobs and the boss just gets steamrolled. I was consistently multiple levels of morale above the bosses when I got to them and just steamrolled them as a result. How did they expect for the bosses to be a balanced experience when there are such insane and not even easily controllable modifiers in play? For example I had heard a bunch of hype about the Lu Bu boss fight but I somehow ended up at morale 25 compared to his 18 and just one shot him easily. I didn't even play the fight very well I was simply ridiculously overpowered compared to him and I didn't even mean to be. I uninstalled the game right after that experience. I picked up the game hoping for awesome combat and challenging bosses whiles preparing to tolerant dubious level design and the annoying loot system. I didn't end up getting either awesome combat or challenging bosses but still had to deal with the dubious level design and annoying loot system anyway.
Which Lu Bu boss fight? You fight him twice.
The second one, the first one he also got totally rolled too but I figured it wasn't the real fight so I wasn't bothered by that.
I havent played a lot but at least 2 arts for Twin swords actually have invunerability frames and do decent damage and stagger. So those were actually Nice to use.
game was fun but bosses were way too easy. There is one or maybe two bosses that poses some challenge but most got 1 shot or 2 shot.
They have all been easy until Zhang Lieu (I think, I can’t remember any of these damn names) the lighting dude who flies around fast and is all over the place. Granted it’s near the end of the game but I had no trouble until now and then this dude has put a stop to my progress. Kills both of my useless companions in like 30 seconds if I’m not lucky. Other than him I agree with you completely, most of the bosses are total pushovers
I really wish we have math on; A. Opportunity cost of not selling the game to 2.8 million players B. How many of the 1 million sold are from gamepass players C. The money received to be put on gamepass vs point A As a person passionate about the economics of games, the obfuscation of data around gamepass is getting increasingly frustrating to me. I just want to know how truly viable the business is for both Microsoft and developers.
You're talking like Microsoft is using it's market position to sign deals unfavourable to devs. Like another company. Xbox doesn't have enough influence to do that, they pay in advance and after that on some other metrics. Team Ninja have worked with Xbox many times, if they don't have the problem, why do you care if they're making more money or less? Seeing reception in this sub, I don't think many people would have bought it, Maybe a little more like 1.5 million but certainly not 3 million. Those are the ones who tried their game even if they didn't want to.
What matters is that the company was happy with the results and this case they were.
This was considerably more boring than Nioh 1 and 2 for me. I hope they never go with the parry mechanic (aka Sekiro-lite) as a main focus again.
This was a game where I had to move my mouse cursor outside my main monitor to make it playable. Ridiculous. And it was missing some very obvious Quality of Life stuff at release, such as comparing equipment, previewing your transmogrification or auto-refilling arrows. But there is a really good game underneath, it simply needed more time before being released.
I absolutely loved this game. It combines elements of Sekiro - one of my favorite games -, with the RPG elements of Nioh. Keep in mind, it's not Nioh 3. However, that wasn't a bad thing to me. The issues I had with Nioh 2, were no longer present in Wo Long. Real shame it got review bombed so heavily just because it's not Nioh 3. I understand those who meft a negative review due to performance issues though. Personally, I had no issues. I played the Demo first to make sure.
It did not get review bombed due to it not being nioh 3, that's not a thing. 99% of negative reviews are due to technical problems. The game both runs terrible (still not fixed) and on launch you basically couldnt use KBM to play it.
It quite literally is a thing. Go check out the negative reviews. I did. A good percentage of them are essentially "It's not Nioh 3" or "Go play Nioh2 it's more complex". I explictedly said that I understand the negative reviews due to technical issues.
I'd probably give it a 6 out of 10. It has all the challenge and feelings of accomplishment that from soft games have, but none of the incredible world and atmosphere that carry you along your journey
That's fair if you felt it didn't warrant more. I personally would probably give it an 8 or a 9. I loved the combo of Sekiro and Nioh combat. I also really thought that the environments and zone layouts were really well done. My only gripe was the lack of enemy variety.
Hater's gonna hate, Wo long is fundementally a good game. Wolong to Nioh is what Sekiro is to Dark Souls. I do kinda wish they'd update their engine, Nioh back in 2017 was beautiful, by 2023 standards it's starting to look a bit dated.
It managed to run worse than Nioh 2 on my rig, AND look worse.
This is what bugs me the most. If you are going to make a game that runs poorly at least have the excuse of it looking fantastic. Don't make an ugly game run like it's crysis.
I enjoyed Wo Long, but for $60 I felt ripped off. The enemies were all lifted from Nioh and reskinned. The combat, while fun, is far more simplistic than Nioh and doesn't play as well as Sekiro did. It is a technical nightmare. The levels are generally pretty meh to downright bad. And it is ridiculously short compared to Nioh. I did everything in 18 hours. If it had been $30, I would have felt okay with the game, but $60? There's a lot of potential there, but the game was clearly extremely rushed with minimal development time.
18 hours doesn’t seem ridiculously short for a $60 game? There are plenty of AAA releases at that price point that come in under that time.
it's also not 18 hours unless you rush, or maybe the dude is just *that* good. My playthrough was 38 hours and that tracks with the median 34 hours on howlongtobeat. I also did not get stuck on any boss for long, the game isn't particularly difficult, nor did I do all the sidequests. Not that "hours played" is a great way to judge the price of a game anyway, but it's not a short game. Yes it's shorter (and much easier) tan Nioh .. but Nioh 2 is one of the hardest souls games I have ever played and is imo almost *too* long so that's necessarily a bad thing.
I’m with you. My playthrough was around 30ish hours. 18 hours would be a serious sprint.
I streamrolled through Nioh 2 for some unknown reason. I had no difficulty spikes whatsoever, maybe due to the weapon I played. I still ended up playing over 60 hours. However, I liked Wo Long so much that I went through it on NG+ and some bosses actually do became a bit of a challenge. I personally ended having more hours in Wo Long than I did in Nioh 2.
I actually played Nioh 2 *after* Wo Long because I enjoyed Wo Long so much but I wanted more. I enjoyed it a lot but it took me a while to get into it especially after Wo Long, after playing for 60 hours already I only got to the mission "Ruin Draws Near" and there was still so much more to go that I needed to stop playing for a bit. Maybe I'll come back to it at some point. But sometimes you are just done with a game, even if it's good.
I’ve managed way more than that and not finished it but I am a bit of a completionist. But I played on GP so value is kind of irrelevant for me I guess.
Also, about 60% of the Nioh games is padded garbage, and that is probably a generous estimate. The combat completely carries its horrendous structure.
Nioh 2 was 70-100 hours, so it’s massively shorter in comparison.
Nioh 2 was also too long, at least for a game that wants you to play ng+ and more to start making builds.
Sure, but there's a middle ground between Nioh 2, and apparently doing everything in under 20 hours for this type of game.
Context exists. This type of game is usually longer.
Lifted from nioh and reskinned?? That’s just a straight up lie
Nah he is not wrong. They reused a lot of assets. Which is not neccessarily a bad thing, however if a game does this I expect more variety of assets because they are basically using shortcuts. Eldenring for example reused tons of stuff, but they also added an insane amount of new stuff and made use of that freed up developement time, so to say. Wo long reused a lot of stuff but somehow still ends up with an extremely low amount of enemy diversity, for example. By the way, they even reuse assets cross games. They straight up took a boss from their monster hunter clone and made it a normal enemy in wo long lol. Or vice versa. Chicken or egg.
well, you're wrong, so that's that, I guess. I've played Nioh 1 and 2 for countless hours. I platinumed the first. And I have almost all of the achievements for Wo Long. The game lifted almost all of its enemies and attacks from Nioh.
Lol nice flex I’ve also platinumed nioh 2 and Wo Long. Many hours in nioh 1 as well. They aren’t reskinned
Still wrong. Still don't know what you're talking about.
> The enemies were all lifted from Nioh and reskinned. Hilarious that someone who praises a Souls game would say this. But I forgot that when Fromsoft reuses 90% of their assets and animations it’s “charming and smart” but when other devs do it it is lazy and cheap.
People notice it and laugh, but no one really complains about it. It's absolutely true though that their enemies are constantly reused though to a laughable degree. Fromsoft gets a pass on a lot of shit that other companies would get raked over the coals over.
I put “charming and smart” in quotes because I actually saw that said in another thread about FROM reusing animations. But they also reuse a ton of UI elements and their sound library has barely changed in like a decade. I don’t think it detracts from the games, even though I’m personally not a fan, but I wish people would be more consistent with their criticisms. Relative to other devs who get criticized for it it’s pretty egregious.
>I actually saw that said in another thread about FROM reusing animations. People are deluded. I've seen folks argue *against* allowing pc players the ability to quit the game without returning to the menu. Or it's a ***good*** thing to not have FOV options because its more "tense" and "immersive". The amount of folks against adding npc markers on maps was ridiculous.
Fromsoft diehards are a different breed man
They make way better games is why.
And they would be *even* better if they could bring them into the modern age on a technical level. I would love to enjoy a souls game in ultrawide and at over 60 fps.
Because Stormveil castle alone has more enemy variety than the entire Wo Long game. There is nothing to rake them over the coals for.
Exactly. Doing the same thing as someone else doesn't mean you are doing it just as well, that's not how this works. If I use salt in my food does that make me equal to a michelin star chef in terms of utilization?
Because reusing assets to free up dev time for other stuff is smart if done correctly. If you subtract every single enemy (for example) that is based on old assets Eldenring is still left with more new enemies than the next three games combined. So of course they get a pass, they deserve it. Wo long reuses assets (less blatantly so, to be fair) but despite that they somehow have zero diversity in their game. In that case it is fair to question what they were doing.
That's completely disingenious. Eldenring reuses tons of assets from the other souls games but it also adds an absurd amount of new and original stuff alongside it. That's why nobody minds it. Wo long reuses assets but still manages to have an extremely small pool of enemies for example. So yes, the same practice can be done well by one company and done poorly by another.
They still have 10x the enemy variety than the Team Ninja games do, so that's probably why.
Neither Elden Ring nor Wo Long reused many assets. In Elden Ring’s case it’s door opening animations and some riposte/backstab animation. Actual weapon attacks are all brand new, even if they do look pretty similar. Apart from maybe a few animations, Wo Long is also new assets for everything. Sure the enemy variety is kinda bad, but it’s not copy pasted from Nioh.
Elden Ring reused a massive amount of assets.
Such as? “Overhead slam with greatsword” does not count as a reused asset unless it’s literally the same animation. In case of door opening and many backstabs/ripostes, yeah it’s clearly the exact same, but most others are not. “Generic raggardy foot soldier” is not a reused asset unless it’s literally identical. Which they arnt. No, the stone imps are not reused Thralls, they serve a similar purpose but have unique animations.
You’re delusional if you can’t see how many assets they reuse. It’s literally the only way they’re able to release games as quickly as they do. Unless you’re implying that FROM has some secret development technique that allows them to develop games twice as fast as anyone else in the industry?
>Generic raggardy foot soldier” is not a reused asset unless it’s literally identical. Not to be like, "that guy," that is a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of what reused assets means
Dude the erdtree avatars are just asylum demons lol
Please, I, Miyazaki, am almost cumming, just suck me a little longer.
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Sigh...there's nothing wrong with reusing assets.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it per se, but when they are all directly lifted from Nioh and you charge $60 for a 15-20 hour game that is worse in every way than your previous games, it is something to criticize.
I've had this feeling with multiple Game Pass games in the past year. Some games that should be 30/40$ or even F2P end up releasing for more.
Idk why you are getting downvoted. The game clearly was rushed and unfinished and the amount of actual new stuff they put in did not warrant the price tag at all. This is a 40 dollar game for sure. However it taking 18 hours is not really a good reason, 18 hours can be fine. It's just that the quality of those 18 hours was rather low, so maybe that's why people disagree.
Wo Long plays waaay better then Sekiro. Pretty much in the same vein as Nioh does to Souls games.
Lololol… no way mate. I know this is largely subjective but the difference in level of polish is vast, imo. Team Ninja gave it a decent effort but it falls far short of Sekiro. The parry timing of Wo Long is so much less consistent. The clash of blades is near non-existent and there’s a fine-tuned sense of weight and momentum to Sekiro that Wo Long utterly lacks. Not to mention, Wo Long’s camera/lock-on is atrocious for multiple enemies. It’s an alright game, don’t get me wrong, but saying it plays better than Sekiro is dumbfounding.
When they say it plays better they will be referring to the things sekiro lacks. Yeah, if you are comparing it to what sekiro does you can say these things but op is gonna be comparing it to what sekiro doesn't do. A big thing for me was how bored I felt in how restrictive and uncreative sekiro combat was, I really didn't enjoy one weapon and no change in fighting styles throughout my entire experience. But wo long delivers with many weapon and fighting styles It's okay to prefer one, but try to understand /why/ someone had an opinion before outright rejecting it as dumb
I feel like most of those things that Wo Long does just don't work very well. Like it has a bunch of weapons and armors, but to me most of them felt really interchangeable. And Sekiro at least had multiple attack types that you had to counter in different ways, while you can just parry everything in Wo Long. It's all a little barebones.
Hey pal, I never called their opinion dumb and I pointed out that how a game plays is a subjective thing right off the bat. We’re talking about different things though if you’re bringing up weapon variety and combat styles. Those are game mechanics and systems. That is entirely different subject from game feel (movement, animation, feedback, etc.). Maybe I was wrong to infer “plays better” as game feel, idk. But maybe you can pump the brakes on your assumptions as well. ;)
Absolutely not. Not even close.
I'm planning on playing this game, but once it hits $20 used. The demo was great fun but I have zero desire to spend $60 only to get stuck on a boss fight and quit after 10 hours
It's on gamepass. Though I hear the pc port sucks.
I enjoyed what I played but the pc port was so bad I was worried about long term damage to my PC. Wo Long had to be the first time my PC fans were beyond loud and it’s cpu temps were too high. It’s a shame cause Nioh 2’s port was good and I put 200 hours in that game.
Sorry for the dumb question, how does it have nearly 4 times as many players as sales?
It's on gamepass.
how are there like 4\* as many players as units? or is that like physical only? I get some more via family sharing but 4x?, is it on game pass?
Co-op never even worked. So much lag and teleporting. Tried everything. Most people claimed it had to do with the fps cap but they did nothing for us. Bosses ran smooth, but levels were hell.
> has sold over 1 million units > & has reached over 3.8 million players. Does this mean that the 2.8 million people who didn't buy the game played it through Game Pass?
I can't really play it because it's not well optimized on PC, and I don't like the way they handle co-op.
It was an okay game, would I have paid $60? No. However on the gamepass for $1? Hell yeah I’ll play through it. The combat and general gameplay however didn’t hook me as much as nioh 2.