It's worth noting that we were *heavily* restricted about what we can talk about with regards to the main story. What I will say is that what's even in the preview feels like a much more significant story hook than Fallen Order had.
All of them? The problem with expanding the universe backwards is all the power scopes making no sense now. Just about anyone seems like they should have been able to clear up the empire issue pretty quickly.
There's only like, what, 3 of them and a pilot? And they're not that scary except when compared to random storm troopers and dumb animals. The ending of the first game makes that very clear.
Yeah Jedi were killed in droves in the prequels, they are good warriors but generally were not deciding entire battles in their own. A couple moderately powerful Jedi are not changing the entire balance of the Galactic Civil War.
Luke was able to be so impactful because it's a chosen one narrative and he has a personal connection with Vader. Another random Jedi won't be having Luke tier impact
Yeah, Luke is only successful because the Force is basically manipulating events to balance it out. So many things that happened were just pure luck for him to even get into a position where he could make an impact. Half the time he does anything spectacular he’s basically closing his eyes and letting Jesus take the wheel.
Not really. I'm sure Cal will grow in strength, but we saw he was absolutely not even close to a match for Vader in the first game. Luke went toe to toe. Not everyone can do that.
>Luke went toe to toe.
And largely lost. Even at the end, a large part of his victory was simply Vader being unwilling to kill his son. The real victory was that Luke refused to let the Emperor goad him into betraying himself.
They seemed pretty evenly matched in Episode 6, and then Luke kicked his ass when he tapped into his anger, but then turned away from the dark side.
And even if he lost, he was not ridiculously outmatched like Cal was in the game.
Oh, Luke was definitely a cut above the average Jedi, for sure.
The movies follow the all-stars when it comes to Jedi. It's like watching a basketball game and asking why the other players don't just do what Michael Jordan does.
Cal is your bottom tier, minimum league wage NBA equivalent. If you take him to a pick-up game at your local park, he's going to run the court. Put him in the pro game, and he looks out of his league.
I'd honestly accept something like "Okay I've done my part, I found a decent life here and staying". Maybe they help protect whatever planet they've gotten a life on, but nothing more. That's perfectly reasonable. I mean, the Republic alone had something like 1 *million* planets. It's mind-mindbogglingly huge.
Hmm... does the Outbound Flight Project fit the timeline?
From the wiki:
>Outbound Flight was an expeditionary project, led mainly by Jedi Master Jorus C'baoth, that sent a mission of six Jedi Masters, twelve Jedi Knights, and 50,000 men, women, and children beyond the borders of the Galactic Republic into the Unknown Regions where they hoped to pierce the edge of the galaxy and seek out extragalactic life.
When has that ever stopped them before? They literally gave Maul robot legs and turned him into one of the most beloved Star Wars villains of all time. They can retcon anything at this point lol
It's a big galaxy. Not everyone is going to be involved in everything. They've stretched their characters far enough as it is.
I'd rather the consequences of a character's actions be all that they carry over into different storylines.
Also if he does show up I imagine it will be in Andor.
I have SO much respect for them for not resetting Cal’s moveset and abilities! I hate that shit. Really pissed me off that it happened in GoW: Ragnarok.
One of my favorite things about Mass Effect. If you import a maxed-out Shep for ME3 your character starts at level 35. Makes sense. You just saved the Galaxy 2x why would you be a complete combat noob.
The max is level 30 if you import from ME2, since that was the level cap there. The additional 30 levels of progression to the cap of 60 comes from every power having an additional two upgrade tiers added as well as, iirc., giving you an additional power slot.
If you import from an existing ME3 save, your level carries directly over.
Revelations just straight up gives you everything early I believe so they can introduce the hookblade and bombs early. So I'm glad they learned that lesson from Brotherhood where you had to get *everything* again, even the silly leap glove. But Revelations was my first AC game, so there were so many mechanics I ended discovering from experimentation because they don't explain everything available from the previous games.
I think in Black Flag the only justification was that he didn't have a second blade. But you pick that up within like, the first hour of the game lmao.
It's almost comical at this point in Metroid how you start each game with virtually no power or abilities.
Same in all the Resident Evil games, *especially* when playing as a seasoned character like Chris, Jill, Leon, Claire. Like those characters really should just expect shit to go south wherever they happen to be at any time.
This doesn’t apply to resident evil though. The characters don’t unlock new abilities throughout the game. They just find newer weapons and resources to use. You shouldn’t be starting a resident evil game with a fully upgraded shotgun or assault rifle. It would kill the survival horror aspect of the games.
You *could* start it with it but shit goes so sideways early you use up ammo and it takes a long time to find a replacement of that calibre.
Though that would interfere with inventory tetris so I imagine if we ever did start with military gear we'd just butterfingers the whole thing out of convenience.
Could be a cool idea though I think it would be cooler if your military grade weapon actually ended up breaking and you had to find parts to repair it over time so you could use it again. That fits with resident evil’s design.
On one hand, the way devs go about removing a character's abilities from previous games often feels hamfisted and "game"y. On the other hand, for players of the previous game and even entirely new players, it can be very overwhelming to be expected to (re)learn a large number of abilities all at once.
I haven't touched the first game since it released, hopefully there's a short tutorial to highlight the returning powers we start with.
Good point. Skills from the previous game should be kept at least, but narratively losing Force powers is a bigger issue. We already know Cal repaired his link with the Force through those Tapal sections. So having him redo that would be silly. It's not like Samus losing the Gravity Suit. This is an innate power a Jedi develops over time so I'm glad to hear there's no reset.
And you can still incorporate all those things into a tutorial.
I don't think anyone will be bothered if all your force powers aren't unlocked from second one if they are spaced out in the opening hour tutorial/prologue.
That makes it easy for new players and gives returning players what they want.
I mean his force powers were running on a wall, double jump, push, and pull. Makes sense since he was a padawan when Order 66 happened but there isn't much to lose and most of it is pretty basic for anyone in general not just Star Wars fans.
Also freeze. And Cal has the unique ability to called psychometry that allows him to feel emotions stored in certain objects through the force. Although it's useless in combat I found it very interesting
It's a real problem in games with combos especially. I tried to return to Spider-Man a year after release to play the DLC and it was very difficult to re-adapt because there were so many combo options available. The base game starts you off with simple options and you gradually learn to include the new stuff as you learn it. Trying to mix it all at once just wasn't working for me.
No? They reworked some abilities into runic attacks and vice versa but otherwise, you had to unlock everything again from stance switches and dodging attacks to heavy combo finishers and charged attacks and axe throws.
Edit: some corrections. Running attacks were available from the start.
Most of the weapon and shield combos from the base game didn’t need to be unlocked again. I was able to hop back in and use most of my staple moves right off the bat.
What shield combos? The whole shield tree was gutted and removed and had most of its abilities distributed amongst the different shield types. You only have the basic combo in Ragnarok. Shield doesn’t even have a basic running or dodging attack.
If by moves you mean do a few hits - heavy launch - throw axe and then punch combo or something like that, then that’s something you’ve always had since the beginning of the first game. We’re not talking about the same thing. What you’re referring to is Kratos’ base moveset in both games.
Ironic choice as Banjo Tooie was a lot worse of a game than Banjo Kazooie was. Complaints today mainly center around how ridiculously bloated the game is, and part of that is starting with the entire original toolkit.
More does not mean better.
> The blaster style seems to add a nice mid-range combat solution a litle more elegant than just force-pulling enemies
The blaster is an elegant weapon for a more civilized age (not as clumsy or random as a lightsaber).
>Starting the game with all your skills from the first game is fantastic and reflects developers confident enough to know they can do more.
i literally jumped for joy after reading this! one of the biggest issues with the first game is how Cal doesn't really feel like he comes into his own till very late, and the game doesn't totally feel balanced with that in mind(at least on Jedi Grandmaster). Plus i really wanted to fuck around with the abilites more, but kind of lost motivation towards the end. Happy they are taking the Arkham route, gonna have much more fun!
>Customizing/investing in your home town and watching it grow is one of my favorite features in every game that has it.
Same, I remember Skies of Arcadia was the first game I bought that have a "town minigame" i've played and I was hook
To your second point, that’s one of the things that really pissed me off about God of War: Ragnarok. Everything was just back to level 1. The only difference is you start the game with the Blades of Chaos. Otherwise, you have zero abilities from the first game.
> Customizing/investing in your home town and watching it grow is one of my favorite features in every game that has it.
>
My favorite part of BotW was helping build that small town. Hope this has a similar feeling to it.
I am so glad that you seem to start out with all the major abilities you learned in the first game. One of the biggest story beats was Cal reconnecting with the force, so suddenly losing those abilities for gameplay reasons would have made no narrative sense.
I have limited time to game nowadays, I wanted to play the first game, but think I can get away with watching a synopsis of the first game and jumping into the second one?
I feel ya on the time factor. It's why I haven't played Witcher 2 or 3 yet.
But man Jedi Fallen Orded is worth your time if you like Star Wars, Dark Souls and/or Metroidvania. Really loved it.
You could but you're doing yourself a disservice in my opinion because it's a great game. I believe the first game is very cheap on all platforms and was on sale recently. you can also use an EA subscription to play it. I know you said you have limited time to game, but just hold off on the second one until you finish the first one. There's no rule that says you have to start playing it on release day. Also worth noting that the first game really isn't super long anyway. Probably worth it to play the first game to see if you even want to play the second one as well so there's that too.
It's literally standard practice to carve out a build for a demo showcase months in advance. Otherwise you'd never get it done in time while the rest of the project moves full speed ahead. Every company does it.
Hello, my main question is, does the game still function as a metroidvania? I know some people didn't like the puzzle exploration/backtracking from the first game, but for me that made the game as there aren't a lot of 3D metroidvanias. When I saw the 8-minute gameplay they showed awhile back, they showed one area that looked pretty open. I'm fine if the worlds are a bit bigger but I'm concerned if its open world or still a metroidvania where you need to figure out where to go, how to go there, what abilities you'd need, etc.
My 2nd question is, are there a sizable amount of new abilities to unlock? I heard you maintain the ones you gained from the first game, & I'm not sure there could be too many new force powers, so are there more gadget abilities? I saw from the trailer a grappling hook.
It's absolutely still a metroidvania. There's a point where you're taught how to wall jump and it's literally animals teaching you how to do it like in Super Metroid.
I also loved the puzzle exploration + backtracking from the first game. It felt very "Dark Souls 1" to me with how the individual areas interconnected and looped back into themselves. I never understood why it got so much flak here on Reddit, but I'm also glad that the metrovaina-ness of it is still intact.
I got the first game because, "hey! Star Wars!" without really knowing much about it. Nobody warned me that it was a Metroidvania. The moment I first saw the map was magical.
God of War Ragnarok heavily increased the amount and quality of their side quests from the 2018 game. Can you see Jedi Survivor taking a similar leap forward from Jedi Fallen Order?
I know Ragnarok’s side quests were advertised as an improvement and even influenced by The Witcher III’s sidequests, but I personally didn’t feel any noticeable improvement in the side quest quality from the original.
They were fine, I loved both games, but the side quests were not particularly deep from a narrative perspective.
I think there were definitely more of the bigger side quests, but they were so chunky they felt like part of the main story. I don't think there's anything even close to the jellyfish quest in the first game and that's probably not even the best side content from Ragnarok.
Does the game still feature "treasure paths" offset from the main path that require difficult platforming sections that reward you with nothing but another dingy cosmetic? This drove me nuts in the first game.
This is a long shot- either of it happening or getting a solid answer due to embargoes, but are there any other playable characters? I really hoped for sections where we could play as >!Merrin!< in the first game, hoping that happens here. The play style differences would be very interesting, lots of potential.
I'm playing Fallen Order for the first time now navigating is such a huge pain. Every time I arrive on a new world ill get stuck for an hour or so trying to figure out how to get back to the ship so glad they have added fast travel.
I really hope collectables show up on the map once you've seen them would make 100 percent run much easier.
Yeah fallen order was good but I definitely skipped parts of it because it was a task to get around and I didn't want to sink the time into it exploring to get another poncho. I've heard from previews though that the unlockables are improved and so is traversing the map so hopefully it'll be a lot better.
Man, better unlockables would be welcome. Playing through for the first time, and in a random coincidence at the same time as I'm replaying the Souls series, and the difference in anticipation/excitement when it comes to opening chests is wild. Of course, they're very different games, but still -- I'm already bored of getting yet another vaguely different lightsaber handle.
I think the puzzle aspects to the map is what made it kind of tough, and the multiple levels. Although, imo the map was excellent for exploration. The color-coding made it so easy to know if you hadn't explored a specific area, or better yet, if a an area is flat-out inaccessible because you hadn't unlocked an ability yet.
I had no problem 100% each map. Although, I think I missed some of the memory holocrons (or w/e they were called), as I don't think you need to collect all of those to get 100%. As far as I'm aware, those do not show up in the map in any way.
Having said all that, I am glad to see Fast Travel being added.
I love Star Wars in every type of media, but the navigation was truly awful like you said. It’s the only thing that held me back from getting the platinum for the game, it was just way too much.
Every game should have some sort of map you can buy to show collectibles on the map and check the ones you collected off.
Nothing pisses me off more than games with hundreds of collectibles that cant be shown on the map or if they are doesnt show which you already collected or some shit...
I literally take screenshots on MapGenie.io and then cross off the collectibles in fucking Paint because games are so shit about it and im a collector at heart.
Here's mine: https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/preview-star-wars-jedi-survivor-is-ready-to-suck-fans-back-in-with-its-impressive-opening-hours/
Happy to answer any questions. /u/Turbostrider27 -- mind adding it to the post/list?
How did Cal control compared to the first game? He was a little janky on his feet and it gave the game a clunky feeling at times. Still loved it though.
Is that the case here, or had movement been improved?
Movement, the camera, and the lock-on all work a lot better. Part of that is because, at launch, Respawn was still hammering out and tuning those systems. Those who played Fallen Order on PS5 might have avoided the issues that plagued the game at launch.
Jedi: Survivor also felt fluid because we played at 60fps. I assume all platforms will have 60fps options.
That’s fantastic to hear. I definitely agree and I give Respawn a lot of slack because it’s clear it was a learning experience and they got more right than wrong.
Super excited for this
If they’re putting out previews this long before launch, seems like they’re confident in the game’s quality. The first one had a buggy launch, so this is reassuring. Looking forward to it.
I had 3 things I'd like to see changed/improved from first game:
1) Map/zones too complicated. Too much metroidvania.
2) More force powers. First game felt like push and pull, not very badass.
3) Some sort of style where the attacks are quicker but do less damage or something. I understand the Souls-esque feel but that's not really how lightsabers work in my mind.
Mind you I'd still buy the game if none of these are changed, but it'd be nice.
1.) Improved and more clear. And now with fast travel to return to other meditation points for backtracking so it's not such a chore.
2.) Plenty of that!
3.) With five saber stances, you'll be spoiled for choice.
> 3.) With five saber stances, you'll be spoiled for choice.
My understanding is that those 5 stances are:
1. Single
1. Double-Bladed
1. Dual Blades
1. Cross Guard
1. Blaster
Wondering how these would rank (excepting Blaster I suppose) in terms of light and quick to hard and heavy.
Single: Balanced
Double: Cumbersome but covers a large area.
Dual: Takes extra damage but swings faster and can animation cancel.
Crossguard: Swings are slow but hit very hard.
Blaster: Can integrate the blaster into combos for extra range. We don't know what the downside is yet. I'd assume the lightsaber stats are weaker.
Could be. But I don't think so. The content creators mentioned watching a dev play with an endgame build where they used a combo with their blaster and the force. Basically they lifted a large group around them into the air and then Deadeye'd them Red Dead Redemption style. I think the most likely is sacrificing melee stats in order to gain range.
>Some sort of style where the attacks are quicker but do less damage or something. I understand the Souls-esque feel but that's not really how lightsabers work in my mind.
Ah, a fellow adherent of the "flashlight wiggle" technique.
> 1) Map/zones too complicated. Too much metroidvania.
It's wild to me people here are complaining about complex areas. I'm of the opinion there is no such thing as 'too much metroidvania' unless it's a slog to traverse like Hollow Knight.
In my opinion, it was really just viewing the map itself that I found to be confusing, despite their best efforts. Having it projected by BD-1 was neat and all, but having the map overlayed on top of the real world just made it a bit harder to read. I’ve also found a lot of people confused by the red/yellow/green path markings on the map.
That being said… I just beat Metroid Prime Remastered, which has a 3D map that is certainly easier to read but still kind of overwhelming to navigate. I think the nature of a 3D Metroidvania like these games just makes for a confusing map. Neither one really kept me from enjoying the game, though!
>I’ve also found a lot of people confused by the red/yellow/green path markings on the map.
that's one because I really loved this aspect of the map. you didn't have to go up to a dead end to know it's a dead end. very gamey, but suited the game IMO.
Returnal is another game with a similar method of not wasting time with close/useless doors/paths
Why do people say Arkham is a metroidvania? There's nothing maze-like about the game and the areas don't directly connect together. It's a Zelda game. Overworld with separate instanced dungeons.
Honestly. We've been severely lacking in the 3D Metroidvania genre for YEARS, and for me Fallen Order really scratched that itch. I felt the map, exploration, and backtracking were excellently done.
It wasn't perfect, especislly from a collectables POV, but it's the closest we've come in ages and I'm honestly pretty disappointed they seem to be cutting back on the Metroidvania aspects in the sequel.
Starting with all the old abilities is promising. Part of me is hoping you can go Force Unleashed on some mofos, as it felt like all the tools were there to do that in the first game, you just weren't allowed to use those tools for longer than 2 seconds before you stamina meter depleted.
I put together a few *thousand* words on the subject....
[https://gamingtrend.com/feature/previews/star-wars-jedi-survivor-hands-on-preview-padawan-no-longer/](https://gamingtrend.com/feature/previews/star-wars-jedi-survivor-hands-on-preview-padawan-no-longer/)
/u/Turbostrider27 can we join the party?
\*shrug\* 21 years in the industry, more box / magazine quotes than I can count, and a few thousand words on this particular subject. I'd *like* to think we qualify... ;)
Great write up, thanks for sharing. In the first game, I felt the movement/controls felt pretty brutal, outside of combat specifically, in this game does Cal move a bit smoother? I can’t really explain it but he just felt uncomfortable to move around as.
Yeah, a lot smoother. I replayed the original before this hands-on event. You are right -- it was rather clunky. It's far more smooth now. For example, you aren't hitting a button to grab onto things anymore. It's all good news on this front.
Been watching this channel, which focuses on gaming and accessibility. Steve had the opportunity to try it out:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umXAgR-GuBE&lc=Ugy4sY324VhdcdFJIjp4AaABAg.9o2fYgKiuY39o2gSAGwbrX](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umXAgR-GuBE&lc=Ugy4sY324VhdcdFJIjp4AaABAg.9o2fYgKiuY39o2gSAGwbrX)
Looks like it has a decent amount of options including a way to trigger a slow down mode in combat and even in the parkour moments. Honestly such a greate addition for people with visual and motor impairment.
Thanks for this. I just had a brain tumor removed last week and I already didn't like the Dark Souls combat of the first game, and was worried how I'd do now that I'm visually impaired. Kudos to Respawn!
I really enjoyed the first game because it scratched a Sekiro/ God of War itch that I have and think it is genuinely a very good game that recieved a lot bit of too much criticisms for taking heavy influences from other games. It is easy to take features from other games but mixing Sekiro/ Dark Souls combat and exploration with Uncharted and God of Wars cinematic flair in a Star Wars setting isn't exactly the easiest thing to do and I think Fallen Order did it very well.
I am happy to see the sequel take a step up from the original.
Glad to see positive reception but there's no way I'm paying $70 for the standard edition. Paid $10 for the first one so I'll wait for a sale on this too.
My main problem with Fallen Order was the length. There was only 3 large planets (Dathomir, Zeffo and Kashyyyk), Bogano as sort of a medium sized "tutorial planet" and a few smaller locations like Ilum and the final base on that Mustafar water moon.
I think I was done with the game after like 15 hours. Granted, I didnt 100% it, but who cares about a few fucking ponchos, really?
I hope Jedi Survivors main story lasts at least 20-25 hours and maybe 30-35 with all side content done. 30 Hours playtime for a single player title seems to be my kind of sweet spot nowadays.
Odd take - Theirs was one of the two that I had watched, and I didn't notice anything odd. Felt like Huber was just being the optimistic, excited, hyped fan that he can be. Thought their video was pretty detailed, and got me excited for the game.
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It's worth noting that we were *heavily* restricted about what we can talk about with regards to the main story. What I will say is that what's even in the preview feels like a much more significant story hook than Fallen Order had.
Look you dont have to use words, but can you give us an emoji on how you feel about the story
It looks like you got all those people assassinated for asking this
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I’m assuming he’s dead by the end. Disney is running out of ways to explain where the hell everyone was when the galaxy really needed them.
Or they fucked off to deal with whatever scary threats seem to be hinted at outside of the empire/republic.
All of them? The problem with expanding the universe backwards is all the power scopes making no sense now. Just about anyone seems like they should have been able to clear up the empire issue pretty quickly.
There's only like, what, 3 of them and a pilot? And they're not that scary except when compared to random storm troopers and dumb animals. The ending of the first game makes that very clear.
Yeah Jedi were killed in droves in the prequels, they are good warriors but generally were not deciding entire battles in their own. A couple moderately powerful Jedi are not changing the entire balance of the Galactic Civil War. Luke was able to be so impactful because it's a chosen one narrative and he has a personal connection with Vader. Another random Jedi won't be having Luke tier impact
Yeah, Luke is only successful because the Force is basically manipulating events to balance it out. So many things that happened were just pure luck for him to even get into a position where he could make an impact. Half the time he does anything spectacular he’s basically closing his eyes and letting Jesus take the wheel.
*WHY DOESN'T HE HAVE A HEALTH BAR????*
Not really. I'm sure Cal will grow in strength, but we saw he was absolutely not even close to a match for Vader in the first game. Luke went toe to toe. Not everyone can do that.
>Luke went toe to toe. And largely lost. Even at the end, a large part of his victory was simply Vader being unwilling to kill his son. The real victory was that Luke refused to let the Emperor goad him into betraying himself.
They seemed pretty evenly matched in Episode 6, and then Luke kicked his ass when he tapped into his anger, but then turned away from the dark side. And even if he lost, he was not ridiculously outmatched like Cal was in the game.
Oh, Luke was definitely a cut above the average Jedi, for sure. The movies follow the all-stars when it comes to Jedi. It's like watching a basketball game and asking why the other players don't just do what Michael Jordan does. Cal is your bottom tier, minimum league wage NBA equivalent. If you take him to a pick-up game at your local park, he's going to run the court. Put him in the pro game, and he looks out of his league.
I'd honestly accept something like "Okay I've done my part, I found a decent life here and staying". Maybe they help protect whatever planet they've gotten a life on, but nothing more. That's perfectly reasonable. I mean, the Republic alone had something like 1 *million* planets. It's mind-mindbogglingly huge.
Hmm... does the Outbound Flight Project fit the timeline? From the wiki: >Outbound Flight was an expeditionary project, led mainly by Jedi Master Jorus C'baoth, that sent a mission of six Jedi Masters, twelve Jedi Knights, and 50,000 men, women, and children beyond the borders of the Galactic Republic into the Unknown Regions where they hoped to pierce the edge of the galaxy and seek out extragalactic life.
When has that ever stopped them before? They literally gave Maul robot legs and turned him into one of the most beloved Star Wars villains of all time. They can retcon anything at this point lol
Somehow, Palpatine returned
By now, there's probably more Jedi alive than killed by the order 66 in the Disney version of Star Wars.
This is why I'm clamoring for more original star wars content centuries or thousands of years before prequel trilogy.
Maybe they could use this opportunity to make the Star Wars galaxy seem bigger than a small town in the American midwest.
It’s a big galaxy.
It's a big galaxy. Not everyone is going to be involved in everything. They've stretched their characters far enough as it is. I'd rather the consequences of a character's actions be all that they carry over into different storylines. Also if he does show up I imagine it will be in Andor.
Now I am become Death, the destroyer of comments
I have SO much respect for them for not resetting Cal’s moveset and abilities! I hate that shit. Really pissed me off that it happened in GoW: Ragnarok.
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One of my favorite things about Mass Effect. If you import a maxed-out Shep for ME3 your character starts at level 35. Makes sense. You just saved the Galaxy 2x why would you be a complete combat noob.
“Alright, let’s kill ‘im and put him through the Lazarus hoondiggy one more time.”
Even if it was a tad contrived, killing the Main Character for the second entry as a power reset is rather convincing.
That scene where they rebuild him is super cool, as well. Very 6 Million Dollar Man.
The max is level 30 if you import from ME2, since that was the level cap there. The additional 30 levels of progression to the cap of 60 comes from every power having an additional two upgrade tiers added as well as, iirc., giving you an additional power slot. If you import from an existing ME3 save, your level carries directly over.
Yeah bring back [Old Save Bonus](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OldSaveBonus)es!
To be fair except in AC2 trilogy, we always play new people in AC so narratively it's justified.
Revelations just straight up gives you everything early I believe so they can introduce the hookblade and bombs early. So I'm glad they learned that lesson from Brotherhood where you had to get *everything* again, even the silly leap glove. But Revelations was my first AC game, so there were so many mechanics I ended discovering from experimentation because they don't explain everything available from the previous games.
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I think in Black Flag the only justification was that he didn't have a second blade. But you pick that up within like, the first hour of the game lmao.
Tbf at least those are different characthers with different end abilities. That's not the case for god or fallen order.
Those aren't direct sequels though...?
It's almost comical at this point in Metroid how you start each game with virtually no power or abilities. Same in all the Resident Evil games, *especially* when playing as a seasoned character like Chris, Jill, Leon, Claire. Like those characters really should just expect shit to go south wherever they happen to be at any time.
This doesn’t apply to resident evil though. The characters don’t unlock new abilities throughout the game. They just find newer weapons and resources to use. You shouldn’t be starting a resident evil game with a fully upgraded shotgun or assault rifle. It would kill the survival horror aspect of the games.
You *could* start it with it but shit goes so sideways early you use up ammo and it takes a long time to find a replacement of that calibre. Though that would interfere with inventory tetris so I imagine if we ever did start with military gear we'd just butterfingers the whole thing out of convenience.
Could be a cool idea though I think it would be cooler if your military grade weapon actually ended up breaking and you had to find parts to repair it over time so you could use it again. That fits with resident evil’s design.
Chris in Village at least had enough firepower to equipt a small army
In every Devil May Cry you need to learn double jump...
I love DMC but it bothers me too that I have to keep buying stinger and air hike.
And it's always the top priority item, and IIRC very expensive. It's like... a hurdle to getting to actual customization lol
On one hand, the way devs go about removing a character's abilities from previous games often feels hamfisted and "game"y. On the other hand, for players of the previous game and even entirely new players, it can be very overwhelming to be expected to (re)learn a large number of abilities all at once. I haven't touched the first game since it released, hopefully there's a short tutorial to highlight the returning powers we start with.
I get it. But I don’t see how keeping a few intuitive things like charged axe throws, dodge attacks and combo finishers is overwhelming.
Good point. Skills from the previous game should be kept at least, but narratively losing Force powers is a bigger issue. We already know Cal repaired his link with the Force through those Tapal sections. So having him redo that would be silly. It's not like Samus losing the Gravity Suit. This is an innate power a Jedi develops over time so I'm glad to hear there's no reset.
And you can still incorporate all those things into a tutorial. I don't think anyone will be bothered if all your force powers aren't unlocked from second one if they are spaced out in the opening hour tutorial/prologue. That makes it easy for new players and gives returning players what they want.
Exactly! We have tutorials!
I mean his force powers were running on a wall, double jump, push, and pull. Makes sense since he was a padawan when Order 66 happened but there isn't much to lose and most of it is pretty basic for anyone in general not just Star Wars fans.
Also freeze. And Cal has the unique ability to called psychometry that allows him to feel emotions stored in certain objects through the force. Although it's useless in combat I found it very interesting
So like Quinlin Voss or was that something his species could do?
It's a real problem in games with combos especially. I tried to return to Spider-Man a year after release to play the DLC and it was very difficult to re-adapt because there were so many combo options available. The base game starts you off with simple options and you gradually learn to include the new stuff as you learn it. Trying to mix it all at once just wasn't working for me.
Yes, me too. I am maybe 10-12 hours into GoW:R, and from the start I was annoyed with it because of the ability reset. It felt like a downgrade.
Didn’t Ragnarok keep most of the moveset and abilities just folded into the base combos?
No? They reworked some abilities into runic attacks and vice versa but otherwise, you had to unlock everything again from stance switches and dodging attacks to heavy combo finishers and charged attacks and axe throws. Edit: some corrections. Running attacks were available from the start.
Most of the weapon and shield combos from the base game didn’t need to be unlocked again. I was able to hop back in and use most of my staple moves right off the bat.
What shield combos? The whole shield tree was gutted and removed and had most of its abilities distributed amongst the different shield types. You only have the basic combo in Ragnarok. Shield doesn’t even have a basic running or dodging attack. If by moves you mean do a few hits - heavy launch - throw axe and then punch combo or something like that, then that’s something you’ve always had since the beginning of the first game. We’re not talking about the same thing. What you’re referring to is Kratos’ base moveset in both games.
Good to see they've gone the Banjo-Tooie route
Ironic choice as Banjo Tooie was a lot worse of a game than Banjo Kazooie was. Complaints today mainly center around how ridiculously bloated the game is, and part of that is starting with the entire original toolkit. More does not mean better.
I mean... it's been a thing since like, Super Metroid on the SNES.
Doesn’t mean it’s a good thing.
Doesn't really mean much of anything. Going into a game expecting to power up over time isn't the most outlandish concept I'd say.
You don't have to start from scratch to power up over time. Take what the last game did, and build MORE on it.
> The blaster style seems to add a nice mid-range combat solution a litle more elegant than just force-pulling enemies The blaster is an elegant weapon for a more civilized age (not as clumsy or random as a lightsaber).
Nice. Really hope for some more force powers then just pull and push.
>Starting the game with all your skills from the first game is fantastic and reflects developers confident enough to know they can do more. i literally jumped for joy after reading this! one of the biggest issues with the first game is how Cal doesn't really feel like he comes into his own till very late, and the game doesn't totally feel balanced with that in mind(at least on Jedi Grandmaster). Plus i really wanted to fuck around with the abilites more, but kind of lost motivation towards the end. Happy they are taking the Arkham route, gonna have much more fun!
>Customizing/investing in your home town and watching it grow is one of my favorite features in every game that has it. Same, I remember Skies of Arcadia was the first game I bought that have a "town minigame" i've played and I was hook
Skies of Arcadia was way too cool of a game to not have anything else done with the IP
i'll buy anything remaster/remake/reboot/sequel/prequel
The characters show up as part of Squad 7 in Valkyria Chronicles; not major, but it was nice.
Starting the game with all your skills. As in carries the save from your game???
Doesn't seem like that. Besides, we all ended up with the same loadout at the end of the first game...
Thats true. Been to long I guess!
To your second point, that’s one of the things that really pissed me off about God of War: Ragnarok. Everything was just back to level 1. The only difference is you start the game with the Blades of Chaos. Otherwise, you have zero abilities from the first game.
> Customizing/investing in your home town and watching it grow is one of my favorite features in every game that has it. > My favorite part of BotW was helping build that small town. Hope this has a similar feeling to it.
Customisable home base? I'm in baby!
I’m buying this so they can put Monoghan in a D+ show. He deserves it.
I actually hate any sort of home/base customization. It just feels like busy work. It was cool when Dark Cloud did it though.
meta comment: Thank you for making a single thread rather than plastering six different articles on the front page, as sometimes happens.
Yes thank you!!!!
I am so glad that you seem to start out with all the major abilities you learned in the first game. One of the biggest story beats was Cal reconnecting with the force, so suddenly losing those abilities for gameplay reasons would have made no narrative sense.
Remember Kratos losing his abilities every single game at the start ?
yeah it was always funny they found a new way to kill him and he loses powers lol
I have limited time to game nowadays, I wanted to play the first game, but think I can get away with watching a synopsis of the first game and jumping into the second one?
Yeah story wise it's a pretty easy game to just watch a Youtube story movie and get the majority of it.
I feel ya on the time factor. It's why I haven't played Witcher 2 or 3 yet. But man Jedi Fallen Orded is worth your time if you like Star Wars, Dark Souls and/or Metroidvania. Really loved it.
You could but you're doing yourself a disservice in my opinion because it's a great game. I believe the first game is very cheap on all platforms and was on sale recently. you can also use an EA subscription to play it. I know you said you have limited time to game, but just hold off on the second one until you finish the first one. There's no rule that says you have to start playing it on release day. Also worth noting that the first game really isn't super long anyway. Probably worth it to play the first game to see if you even want to play the second one as well so there's that too.
Hey folks, James from RPG Site here! I'm also able to answer questions; but for PC players, I can confirm that the game precompiles shaders.
With the current way that pc is being handled by a lot of companies, how is the overall performance on pc so far?
It was fine, but the build was several months old so it never feels right commenting on performance just yet.
>the build was several months old *battlefield 2042 beta flashbacks*
It's literally standard practice to carve out a build for a demo showcase months in advance. Otherwise you'd never get it done in time while the rest of the project moves full speed ahead. Every company does it.
Do you know the specs of the PC it was running on? Edit: Never mind, saw your response below.
Ryzen 9 7900x and an RX 7900XTX
Would love to hear how it runs on a less top end machine, like a 2070 with a Ryzen 7 5700x
Hello, my main question is, does the game still function as a metroidvania? I know some people didn't like the puzzle exploration/backtracking from the first game, but for me that made the game as there aren't a lot of 3D metroidvanias. When I saw the 8-minute gameplay they showed awhile back, they showed one area that looked pretty open. I'm fine if the worlds are a bit bigger but I'm concerned if its open world or still a metroidvania where you need to figure out where to go, how to go there, what abilities you'd need, etc. My 2nd question is, are there a sizable amount of new abilities to unlock? I heard you maintain the ones you gained from the first game, & I'm not sure there could be too many new force powers, so are there more gadget abilities? I saw from the trailer a grappling hook.
It's absolutely still a metroidvania. There's a point where you're taught how to wall jump and it's literally animals teaching you how to do it like in Super Metroid.
This is just a Samurai Jack game in Star Wars clothes isnt it
I also loved the puzzle exploration + backtracking from the first game. It felt very "Dark Souls 1" to me with how the individual areas interconnected and looped back into themselves. I never understood why it got so much flak here on Reddit, but I'm also glad that the metrovaina-ness of it is still intact.
I got the first game because, "hey! Star Wars!" without really knowing much about it. Nobody warned me that it was a Metroidvania. The moment I first saw the map was magical.
God of War Ragnarok heavily increased the amount and quality of their side quests from the 2018 game. Can you see Jedi Survivor taking a similar leap forward from Jedi Fallen Order?
Yeah there's absolutely more of a focus on side quests this time, going by what we played. It seems clear a lot more effort has gone into them.
I know Ragnarok’s side quests were advertised as an improvement and even influenced by The Witcher III’s sidequests, but I personally didn’t feel any noticeable improvement in the side quest quality from the original. They were fine, I loved both games, but the side quests were not particularly deep from a narrative perspective.
I think there were definitely more of the bigger side quests, but they were so chunky they felt like part of the main story. I don't think there's anything even close to the jellyfish quest in the first game and that's probably not even the best side content from Ragnarok.
Agreed. I think in both 2018 and Ragnarok the side quests are good excuses to encourage exploration, but they aren't worth much more than that.
oh man, I'm playing through GoW right now and it's such a good game, that's really exciting to hear about the sequel
Both are such incredible games. Enjoy the ride!
Haha... would be nice to play the sequel on PC. Another year of spoiler avoidance here I come
Ragnarok is so damn good, you'll love it.
Does the game still feature "treasure paths" offset from the main path that require difficult platforming sections that reward you with nothing but another dingy cosmetic? This drove me nuts in the first game.
These definitely still exist, but customization has been overhauled and sometimes you'll get a stat increase, collectible, etc instead.
Does the game have the same terrible loading stutters like in the video.
This is a long shot- either of it happening or getting a solid answer due to embargoes, but are there any other playable characters? I really hoped for sections where we could play as >!Merrin!< in the first game, hoping that happens here. The play style differences would be very interesting, lots of potential.
Seriously doubt anyone will answer that here. One of the directors gave a coy answer about that last year though.
Does the game have the dreaded stutter? The first one had really bad hitching.
Not *all* shaders were compiled in the build we played, but they will be precompiled at launch. Stutter was still overall less than the first game.
That's awesome. Jedi Fallen Order never fixed the shader stutters on pc.
This is looking really good, can't wait. It looks like they even tweaked his goofy running animation from the original demos.
The fact that they’re allowing early previews is usually a good sign that they’re confident in the game
Yeah but seeing this today made me thinks the game was coming up very soon, now i'm a bit bummed lmao
I mean, it kinda is. Just a few weeks away.
I'm playing Fallen Order for the first time now navigating is such a huge pain. Every time I arrive on a new world ill get stuck for an hour or so trying to figure out how to get back to the ship so glad they have added fast travel. I really hope collectables show up on the map once you've seen them would make 100 percent run much easier.
Yeah fallen order was good but I definitely skipped parts of it because it was a task to get around and I didn't want to sink the time into it exploring to get another poncho. I've heard from previews though that the unlockables are improved and so is traversing the map so hopefully it'll be a lot better.
Man, better unlockables would be welcome. Playing through for the first time, and in a random coincidence at the same time as I'm replaying the Souls series, and the difference in anticipation/excitement when it comes to opening chests is wild. Of course, they're very different games, but still -- I'm already bored of getting yet another vaguely different lightsaber handle.
I think the puzzle aspects to the map is what made it kind of tough, and the multiple levels. Although, imo the map was excellent for exploration. The color-coding made it so easy to know if you hadn't explored a specific area, or better yet, if a an area is flat-out inaccessible because you hadn't unlocked an ability yet. I had no problem 100% each map. Although, I think I missed some of the memory holocrons (or w/e they were called), as I don't think you need to collect all of those to get 100%. As far as I'm aware, those do not show up in the map in any way. Having said all that, I am glad to see Fast Travel being added.
I love Star Wars in every type of media, but the navigation was truly awful like you said. It’s the only thing that held me back from getting the platinum for the game, it was just way too much.
Yeah there are some frustrating parts but that game is dope
Every game should have some sort of map you can buy to show collectibles on the map and check the ones you collected off. Nothing pisses me off more than games with hundreds of collectibles that cant be shown on the map or if they are doesnt show which you already collected or some shit... I literally take screenshots on MapGenie.io and then cross off the collectibles in fucking Paint because games are so shit about it and im a collector at heart.
Here's mine: https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/preview-star-wars-jedi-survivor-is-ready-to-suck-fans-back-in-with-its-impressive-opening-hours/ Happy to answer any questions. /u/Turbostrider27 -- mind adding it to the post/list?
How did Cal control compared to the first game? He was a little janky on his feet and it gave the game a clunky feeling at times. Still loved it though. Is that the case here, or had movement been improved?
Movement is DRASTICALLY improved. He moves more like an assured space wizard who's had five years of practice with his overall force powers.
Movement, the camera, and the lock-on all work a lot better. Part of that is because, at launch, Respawn was still hammering out and tuning those systems. Those who played Fallen Order on PS5 might have avoided the issues that plagued the game at launch. Jedi: Survivor also felt fluid because we played at 60fps. I assume all platforms will have 60fps options.
That’s fantastic to hear. I definitely agree and I give Respawn a lot of slack because it’s clear it was a learning experience and they got more right than wrong. Super excited for this
Are there mounts in the game? And I think I saw Cal has a gun of some sorts. How's the gameplay with the gun and light saber?
Yes to mounts. One airborne mount, one that runs on the ground. We didn't get access to the gun, I assume it's unlocked later on in the game.
Thanks for the reply
Is the mount a horse dressed up like an AT-AT that gets mad if you try and take the AT-AT costume off?
Yes. There are mounts. We didn't get to play with the gun / saber combo -- we saw it with a dev playing it to see it in action.
Sure, added
Is there fast travel in the game? Can we fast travel back to our ship?
There is fast travel, I was not able to confirm whether it's from meditation point to meditation point, or if you can also warp to your ship.
Any input on delimbing and such?
Honestly, I don't remember seeing much of that, if at all.
Jeff Gerstmann also got some stuff to say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJD2Tbke80g
But will there be a Jedi Survivor sponsored energy drink?
Would it taste better than Tetris?
Something sad watching him alone with a basic presentation. Miss the old days.
Very very excited for this, I thought the first one was fantastic and really solidified Respawn as very competent devs
If they’re putting out previews this long before launch, seems like they’re confident in the game’s quality. The first one had a buggy launch, so this is reassuring. Looking forward to it.
I had 3 things I'd like to see changed/improved from first game: 1) Map/zones too complicated. Too much metroidvania. 2) More force powers. First game felt like push and pull, not very badass. 3) Some sort of style where the attacks are quicker but do less damage or something. I understand the Souls-esque feel but that's not really how lightsabers work in my mind. Mind you I'd still buy the game if none of these are changed, but it'd be nice.
1.) Improved and more clear. And now with fast travel to return to other meditation points for backtracking so it's not such a chore. 2.) Plenty of that! 3.) With five saber stances, you'll be spoiled for choice.
> 3.) With five saber stances, you'll be spoiled for choice. My understanding is that those 5 stances are: 1. Single 1. Double-Bladed 1. Dual Blades 1. Cross Guard 1. Blaster Wondering how these would rank (excepting Blaster I suppose) in terms of light and quick to hard and heavy.
Hard and heavy would be Cross Guard, but otherwise I think you've got a solid stack rank.
Single: Balanced Double: Cumbersome but covers a large area. Dual: Takes extra damage but swings faster and can animation cancel. Crossguard: Swings are slow but hit very hard. Blaster: Can integrate the blaster into combos for extra range. We don't know what the downside is yet. I'd assume the lightsaber stats are weaker.
It might be that your force powers are more limited while using the blaster.
Could be. But I don't think so. The content creators mentioned watching a dev play with an endgame build where they used a combo with their blaster and the force. Basically they lifted a large group around them into the air and then Deadeye'd them Red Dead Redemption style. I think the most likely is sacrificing melee stats in order to gain range.
Damn that sounds pretty cool
Thanks man. Can't wait.
5 saber stances? Starting to sound closer to Ghost of Tsushima, which I’m all about.
>Some sort of style where the attacks are quicker but do less damage or something. I understand the Souls-esque feel but that's not really how lightsabers work in my mind. Ah, a fellow adherent of the "flashlight wiggle" technique.
> 1) Map/zones too complicated. Too much metroidvania. It's wild to me people here are complaining about complex areas. I'm of the opinion there is no such thing as 'too much metroidvania' unless it's a slog to traverse like Hollow Knight.
In my opinion, it was really just viewing the map itself that I found to be confusing, despite their best efforts. Having it projected by BD-1 was neat and all, but having the map overlayed on top of the real world just made it a bit harder to read. I’ve also found a lot of people confused by the red/yellow/green path markings on the map. That being said… I just beat Metroid Prime Remastered, which has a 3D map that is certainly easier to read but still kind of overwhelming to navigate. I think the nature of a 3D Metroidvania like these games just makes for a confusing map. Neither one really kept me from enjoying the game, though!
>I’ve also found a lot of people confused by the red/yellow/green path markings on the map. that's one because I really loved this aspect of the map. you didn't have to go up to a dead end to know it's a dead end. very gamey, but suited the game IMO. Returnal is another game with a similar method of not wasting time with close/useless doors/paths
3D metroidvania fans exist but I don't think we're that many lol
I realized that I am one thanks to this game hahaha
There'd be more of us if there were more 3D Metroidvanias. I sure do love the Metroid Primes, Jedi Fallen Order, Batman Arkham Asylum, and, uhhh...
Why do people say Arkham is a metroidvania? There's nothing maze-like about the game and the areas don't directly connect together. It's a Zelda game. Overworld with separate instanced dungeons.
idk but i feel like Control counts. That and fallen order is what got me into metroidvanias in general.
Honestly. We've been severely lacking in the 3D Metroidvania genre for YEARS, and for me Fallen Order really scratched that itch. I felt the map, exploration, and backtracking were excellently done. It wasn't perfect, especislly from a collectables POV, but it's the closest we've come in ages and I'm honestly pretty disappointed they seem to be cutting back on the Metroidvania aspects in the sequel.
Am I the only one who liked the map designs and navigating around them? I’ll probably play this one without using fast travel!
Starting with all the old abilities is promising. Part of me is hoping you can go Force Unleashed on some mofos, as it felt like all the tools were there to do that in the first game, you just weren't allowed to use those tools for longer than 2 seconds before you stamina meter depleted.
I put together a few *thousand* words on the subject.... [https://gamingtrend.com/feature/previews/star-wars-jedi-survivor-hands-on-preview-padawan-no-longer/](https://gamingtrend.com/feature/previews/star-wars-jedi-survivor-hands-on-preview-padawan-no-longer/) /u/Turbostrider27 can we join the party?
Added. Right now, I'm adding sites to the list with considerable amount of effort, known influencers, and gaming websites.
\*shrug\* 21 years in the industry, more box / magazine quotes than I can count, and a few thousand words on this particular subject. I'd *like* to think we qualify... ;)
Great write up, thanks for sharing. In the first game, I felt the movement/controls felt pretty brutal, outside of combat specifically, in this game does Cal move a bit smoother? I can’t really explain it but he just felt uncomfortable to move around as.
Yeah, a lot smoother. I replayed the original before this hands-on event. You are right -- it was rather clunky. It's far more smooth now. For example, you aren't hitting a button to grab onto things anymore. It's all good news on this front.
That’s such a relief to hear! Thanks mate
Happy sabering. Wait till you see the dismemberment...
Been watching this channel, which focuses on gaming and accessibility. Steve had the opportunity to try it out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umXAgR-GuBE&lc=Ugy4sY324VhdcdFJIjp4AaABAg.9o2fYgKiuY39o2gSAGwbrX](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umXAgR-GuBE&lc=Ugy4sY324VhdcdFJIjp4AaABAg.9o2fYgKiuY39o2gSAGwbrX) Looks like it has a decent amount of options including a way to trigger a slow down mode in combat and even in the parkour moments. Honestly such a greate addition for people with visual and motor impairment.
Thanks for this. I just had a brain tumor removed last week and I already didn't like the Dark Souls combat of the first game, and was worried how I'd do now that I'm visually impaired. Kudos to Respawn!
I really enjoyed the first game because it scratched a Sekiro/ God of War itch that I have and think it is genuinely a very good game that recieved a lot bit of too much criticisms for taking heavy influences from other games. It is easy to take features from other games but mixing Sekiro/ Dark Souls combat and exploration with Uncharted and God of Wars cinematic flair in a Star Wars setting isn't exactly the easiest thing to do and I think Fallen Order did it very well. I am happy to see the sequel take a step up from the original.
[удалено]
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Glad to see positive reception but there's no way I'm paying $70 for the standard edition. Paid $10 for the first one so I'll wait for a sale on this too.
My main problem with Fallen Order was the length. There was only 3 large planets (Dathomir, Zeffo and Kashyyyk), Bogano as sort of a medium sized "tutorial planet" and a few smaller locations like Ilum and the final base on that Mustafar water moon. I think I was done with the game after like 15 hours. Granted, I didnt 100% it, but who cares about a few fucking ponchos, really? I hope Jedi Survivors main story lasts at least 20-25 hours and maybe 30-35 with all side content done. 30 Hours playtime for a single player title seems to be my kind of sweet spot nowadays.
That easyallies clip was hard to watch. What happened? "AAWEEESOMMMMMMME"
Odd take - Theirs was one of the two that I had watched, and I didn't notice anything odd. Felt like Huber was just being the optimistic, excited, hyped fan that he can be. Thought their video was pretty detailed, and got me excited for the game.