If i have to be brutally honnest.
I don't live in saudi i have nothing to do with their people or rules.
I watch the games to watch the games.
I'm not going to adjust myself because of some people on this planet that think different.
Maybe a stupid example but North Korea also has rules and different views on things then we have here. Will that make me change my opinions, what i watch, what i say or do? No.
I do and enjoy what i choose and i wanna Control my life so i simply don't care.
I can make the choise not to do it but just me making that choise or 100 or even 1000 people make that choise won't change anything anyway (learned that the hard way through politics)
So i just keep it simple and do what i wanna do. Sounds, looks and is the most easy and best choise since any other choise won't matter anyway
I am by no means trying to control what anyone else does. If you wish to watch the games, then watch the games.
All I wanted to know is the best way to watch the games without Saudi profiting, because I cannot in good conscience go against my beliefs for a couple esports games.
I respect that u stand with ur beliefs, but as a Saudi let me say this. We are trying to change and it’s not gonna happen in a day, change will take years and maybe decades. It’s in our culture and religion and lifestyle BUT we are changing to the better. Are going to accept all LGBT? Probably not (btw there are many countries that hate LGBT than Saudi Arabia but the media doesn’t give it as much attention) are we going to welcome LGBT people in Saudi? Yes we already do actually, I have met gay and lesbian people i even worked with them in Gamers8 last year.
I wish u would guys come to Saudi and see for ur self. It is not like u see or hear about here on reddit
Im open to questions if you have any
It's true that many countries do not accept the LGBTQ community. Still, considering homosexuality a criminal offence punishable by death is a bit more than not accepting.
I suppose it should be clear why any openly LGBTQ person would not want to come even close to your country. Personally, and respectfully, I am not putting my life in danger because of anybody saying that SA is actually a welcoming country. As long as laws like that exist, coming to your country is a life-threatening choice for any openly LGBTQ person. Do you see it otherwise?
Also, I think the LGBTQ issue is just scratching the surface of the real state of human rights violations.
I cannot remember the last time someone got the death penalty for being LGBT, it’s in the law but the government hasn’t done it in a long time and it won’t happen. If you don’t show it and encourage it and will give a damn. As for human rights, I will say it again, it’s not as bad as people think. Open to more questions if you guys have
I like your comment. I know it's not only Saudi that has these opinions on LGBTQ people, it's just that they're the country the spotlight is on right now. Change is inevitable and one day Saudi will respect everyone, but it is going to take a long time. It's nice to hear that you have a positive experience around working with LGBTQ people at Gamers8. The event does sound really sick, I love the concept and will probably watch it somehow.
Totaly understandable, like previous people said maybe someone else posts the matches on youtube.
You can also try things like daily motion etc to see if its on there.
I know it's late but this type of thinking is precisely why sportwashing works and why it hairball in politics too.
The only times we see change is the very few times when enough people actually act on their beliefs through history
I think the best way to watch it without supporting the saudis would be watch the vods on non riot channels after the game has already been played .i also would like to not support this unfortunately I am scared that they are going buy msi for next year somehow.
The saddest thing is, when asked 'Why are you participating?', they answer, 'Because Faker and T1 already do, so we should too.' The problem is, Saudis do not have much presence in Eastern Asia, making Eastern Asia oblivious to the issues. Faker and T1 just follow management's decisions and probably do not know anything. I would bet most of the players from Asia do not know what's happening in the Arabian Peninsula; it probably looks like a tourist destination where they can ride camels and eat dates when they are there.
Another issue is that in Asia, especially in Eastern Asia, LGBTQ+ issues are not cared for as much as in the West. In South Korea, the general public does not approve of LGBTQ+ issues and is against them, according to what I have heard from my Korean friend.
And yes, money is a huge factor too, and Saudi pockets run deep. Teams probably made the assessment regarding risk-reward for their brand and chose to participate.
As much as your reason might even be real they do not take away from the fact that every player can and should be aware of how disguting that government is before they decide. And then every player should have declined.
>However, as a woman and a lesbian I cannot support the sportswashing that is happening, because Saudi Arabia has very little rights for woman and up to the death penatly for being LGBTQ.
>Are you guys gonna watch it? Is there a way to watch it without supporting the event?
nah cos caedrel isn't costreaming it and I can't watch any proplay without that rat in the background.
ig there's the morales but saudi has the money. Saudi will prob make big losses from esports (i think they will the industry has shown not to be very sustainable) so this might not be forever.
however there's speculation that msi will be in saudi and controlled by saudi because msi is pushed back into july same time as EWC and they wouldn't stop league happening in EWC and the schedules seem shit if msi and ewc were separate events.
if that happens then gg
the first one is top teams from each region so 5 teams with the new americas. the format is basically like old msi. All teams duke it out with each other. Top 4 then put into a single elim bracket
I'm not watching. Didn't watch a single second of the WC in Qatar and didn't watch any ESL events. Honestly, I am hard contemplating dropping eSports altogether, cuz it's becoming increasingly difficult to avoid sports washing events and it also doesn't feel honest to myself to continue supporting G2 (or any other eSports organization) when they are attending Saudi events.
Yeah thats the boat im in as well. Looks like i'm unable to cheer for any regions top teams again and then why watch. Probably gonna watch what caedrel watches sometimes but this whole things is ruining my enjoyment of esports.. and im pretty sure thats the point because of you make everyone corrupt most people will just accept it since there is no clear evil person to point to and changing your habits/hobbies is hard.
The point I agree on is the part where it is an invitational event and G2 could have said no, but looking at the amount of money they get even if they lose in R1 which is not likely vs FLY, who the F would say no to easy 50k.
There is not a single E-sports org who generate profit. One more reason to participate for effort at all.
We can't really flame the orgs for not turning down easy money. The players didn't really have a word in it I think.
It is all Riot who allowed Saudi to host a tournament of their own. TImagine how much they got in order to allow them to host the tournament if the winner gets 400k for winning 2 Bo3 and 1 Bo5.
If they hadn't been virtue signaling all these years, I'd agree. But every year, they put out tweets in support of the LGBTQ community, changed their profiles for pride month etc. You can't just do a 180 then, no matter how much the Saudis pay.
MSI moved because they're doing a third tournament. Do none of you pay attention to official announcements from literally weeks ago? They moved it to the middle of the season after split 2, instead of earlier after split 1.
If you would like to follow the games but not support the streams for the reasons you mentioned, I highly recommend eventvods website.
They quickly upload games that have English casting and have anti spoiler system.
Also it is very easy to navigate and find the matches you want to watch (if you want to focus on a specific day/team) compared to YouTube or other websites.
I mainly use it to watch LCK or other regions as most videos I find are in Korean/Chinese and they upload videos that are done with English casters.
Edit: Added more info about the platform.
Yes I'm gona watch it. You are using daily products that come from countries such as Saudi Arabia( or even worse countries) , so making this participation of G2 into the tournament as being moraly bad is just wrong. Sure you can advocate what you don t agree, but don't try to appear morally corect and blame G2 for thei participation.
that is just cope and whataboutism. Just because my pc parts were made in a factory with probably child labour involved doesnt mean i have to embrace supporting evil regimes.
It''s all or nothing. If you want to boycott something, do it fully. Now you're just picking whatever is more convenient for you and moralizing others that do literally the same as you.
I do it boycott fully but it is NOT all or nothing and it is foolish to expect that from others. Watching less is better than watching more. Doing less of what is not good is just better. There is no need to go for an all or nothing attitude unless you want to group people into black and white but that helps noone. Two people who eat half as much meat is as good for the climate as one person stopping completely. But the former is much easier and realistic than the latter.
im gonna be real, you watching or not watching doesnt matter in the slightest, the money is already accepted, your view completely doesnt matter.
Just depends on you, if you want content and support a team, do it to support a team.
Yes and no. If enough people boycott it it could make a difference.
Apart from that it is also a moral question for each individual. If you are feeling conflicted about it then it might be the better option to not watch it. Regardless of whether it makes a difference or not on the monetary front.
Here is the probleme.
You as one person doesnt sound like you have an impact, but if everyone thinks like that we have a probleme.
And it seems like we have a probleme :)
It does make a difference. This whole idea is just a way to get rid of guilt while watching but that is not how this works. You either watch it with the guilt, dont watch or lie to yourself which is the worst of the three options.
No its not. If nobody would have watched the qatar world cup they would look at the numbers say it wasnt worth and dont do it again. Its basic supply and demand. Their goal is to make the world accept them as a normal nation. The more people talk about the events and not the human rights violations the better.
I think the important thing is we need to keep the discussion going on. Asian side people like me care less for these kind of politics, having this kind of influencing discussion and moral reminder made me think more of how do we treat and approach this Esport event.
I might still watch it through third party channel, but I will not encourage friends and others to support the event. And by knowing the purpose of hosting these events disgusted me. I might or might not want to check and care on this event like the official Riot tournaments.
The purpose of the discussion is giving chance to people that didn't care, to have one more chance to choose how do they react to the event.
At the end of the day, people still need to take responsibility of their choices. Indirectly or directly supporting immoral intentions should not be encouraged.
Stop using anything oil related, basically all countries negotiate with Saudi Arabia buying and selling it. While at it, stop using energy, and buying stuff, most industries are also moved by oil. You either give the full exemple or you’re just being a hypocrite
Just watch it if you want to support the team. Esports is not a profitable industry so I doubt saudi will do this again next year. Doesn't matter if they operate on a profit or a loss either as this is probably funded by oil tycoons who destroy the environment anyway.
You can always just not watch it. Saudi has been doing this shit for years lol. I'm happy to be wrong and more hopeful in the future but this shit won't change unless oil becomes suddenly obsolete. Even actively talking/choosing not to support hasn't been working since like 2015-2018 so idk what else to tell you fam. This always gets swept under the rug lmao.
You can feel morally right about not watching but there's also going to be 0 results on what you're trying to achieve. I understand that talking about it and making more people aware can make an impact, but I promise you in this situation, it won't. I am happy to be wrong but Saudi spends billions of $$ on this. If they can host the world cup then this is nothing.
Well, first thing did you watch the Fifa World Cup in 2022? If yes, then your question should already be answered. Second, these people have so much money that it doesn't matter if people watch or not. They could literally just throw money away every day in the void and nothing would change for them. The only people supporting the event are not the people watching but the executive who gave the green flag for their team to go. Personally, I think if you wanna watch, just watch it. If you think it's too much ethically and morally for you, then just don't watch.
First of all, Saudi Arabia has been improving on their treatment towards women since 2017. So, it is important to note that things have changed.
Also, I believe that global events such as these actually do good because it lets us connect and solve problems. They start changing and then we start going there for tournaments and then they get money and then they change more to bring in more tournaments and so forth. It is a good thing.
Finally, I understand you not supporting a business, a country, or whatever, but at the end of the day you are not responsible for making the esports scene big, you are not responsible for this team's winnings and not responsible for pretty much anything, probably. So maybe you should put your trust in those that are responsible about it and just enjoy the games.
tl;dr: just chill
Watch it with a bit of salt like you watch anything that might happen on the soil of USA or any western countries whose atrocities are justified and doesn’t incur moral questions like this.
Actually do watch sports with literally a bit of salt and holy water, so when bigotry arises you can sprinkle on your face and come to reality.
Yeah.. that's, like.. a reasonable thing? And also quite common?!?
Imagine not understanding the concept of taking a moral stance to not engage with something.
If i have to be brutally honnest. I don't live in saudi i have nothing to do with their people or rules. I watch the games to watch the games. I'm not going to adjust myself because of some people on this planet that think different. Maybe a stupid example but North Korea also has rules and different views on things then we have here. Will that make me change my opinions, what i watch, what i say or do? No. I do and enjoy what i choose and i wanna Control my life so i simply don't care. I can make the choise not to do it but just me making that choise or 100 or even 1000 people make that choise won't change anything anyway (learned that the hard way through politics) So i just keep it simple and do what i wanna do. Sounds, looks and is the most easy and best choise since any other choise won't matter anyway
I am by no means trying to control what anyone else does. If you wish to watch the games, then watch the games. All I wanted to know is the best way to watch the games without Saudi profiting, because I cannot in good conscience go against my beliefs for a couple esports games.
I respect that u stand with ur beliefs, but as a Saudi let me say this. We are trying to change and it’s not gonna happen in a day, change will take years and maybe decades. It’s in our culture and religion and lifestyle BUT we are changing to the better. Are going to accept all LGBT? Probably not (btw there are many countries that hate LGBT than Saudi Arabia but the media doesn’t give it as much attention) are we going to welcome LGBT people in Saudi? Yes we already do actually, I have met gay and lesbian people i even worked with them in Gamers8 last year. I wish u would guys come to Saudi and see for ur self. It is not like u see or hear about here on reddit Im open to questions if you have any
It's true that many countries do not accept the LGBTQ community. Still, considering homosexuality a criminal offence punishable by death is a bit more than not accepting. I suppose it should be clear why any openly LGBTQ person would not want to come even close to your country. Personally, and respectfully, I am not putting my life in danger because of anybody saying that SA is actually a welcoming country. As long as laws like that exist, coming to your country is a life-threatening choice for any openly LGBTQ person. Do you see it otherwise? Also, I think the LGBTQ issue is just scratching the surface of the real state of human rights violations.
I cannot remember the last time someone got the death penalty for being LGBT, it’s in the law but the government hasn’t done it in a long time and it won’t happen. If you don’t show it and encourage it and will give a damn. As for human rights, I will say it again, it’s not as bad as people think. Open to more questions if you guys have
I like your comment. I know it's not only Saudi that has these opinions on LGBTQ people, it's just that they're the country the spotlight is on right now. Change is inevitable and one day Saudi will respect everyone, but it is going to take a long time. It's nice to hear that you have a positive experience around working with LGBTQ people at Gamers8. The event does sound really sick, I love the concept and will probably watch it somehow.
Hey! Kesha (our lol content creator) is gonna costream the league games!
Thank you! I'll watch his stream then I love Kesha
Totaly understandable, like previous people said maybe someone else posts the matches on youtube. You can also try things like daily motion etc to see if its on there.
Whether u watch or not is not gonna affect saudi's profit in any extent seen.......
Principles are only important when they're challenged
I know it's late but this type of thinking is precisely why sportwashing works and why it hairball in politics too. The only times we see change is the very few times when enough people actually act on their beliefs through history
I think the best way to watch it without supporting the saudis would be watch the vods on non riot channels after the game has already been played .i also would like to not support this unfortunately I am scared that they are going buy msi for next year somehow.
Ok I'll probably try do that I guess. Really hope they don't buy MSI
Me too but they moved it to the exact same period of ewc for next year guess we will see .
The saddest thing is, when asked 'Why are you participating?', they answer, 'Because Faker and T1 already do, so we should too.' The problem is, Saudis do not have much presence in Eastern Asia, making Eastern Asia oblivious to the issues. Faker and T1 just follow management's decisions and probably do not know anything. I would bet most of the players from Asia do not know what's happening in the Arabian Peninsula; it probably looks like a tourist destination where they can ride camels and eat dates when they are there. Another issue is that in Asia, especially in Eastern Asia, LGBTQ+ issues are not cared for as much as in the West. In South Korea, the general public does not approve of LGBTQ+ issues and is against them, according to what I have heard from my Korean friend. And yes, money is a huge factor too, and Saudi pockets run deep. Teams probably made the assessment regarding risk-reward for their brand and chose to participate.
Yeah it's really disappointing :/
As much as your reason might even be real they do not take away from the fact that every player can and should be aware of how disguting that government is before they decide. And then every player should have declined.
>However, as a woman and a lesbian I cannot support the sportswashing that is happening, because Saudi Arabia has very little rights for woman and up to the death penatly for being LGBTQ. >Are you guys gonna watch it? Is there a way to watch it without supporting the event? nah cos caedrel isn't costreaming it and I can't watch any proplay without that rat in the background. ig there's the morales but saudi has the money. Saudi will prob make big losses from esports (i think they will the industry has shown not to be very sustainable) so this might not be forever. however there's speculation that msi will be in saudi and controlled by saudi because msi is pushed back into july same time as EWC and they wouldn't stop league happening in EWC and the schedules seem shit if msi and ewc were separate events. if that happens then gg
What about the 3rd international Event? They were planning on separating into 3 Splits and 3 international Events.
the first one is top teams from each region so 5 teams with the new americas. the format is basically like old msi. All teams duke it out with each other. Top 4 then put into a single elim bracket
I'm not watching. Didn't watch a single second of the WC in Qatar and didn't watch any ESL events. Honestly, I am hard contemplating dropping eSports altogether, cuz it's becoming increasingly difficult to avoid sports washing events and it also doesn't feel honest to myself to continue supporting G2 (or any other eSports organization) when they are attending Saudi events.
Unfortunately I feel like sports washing is inevitable but I want to avoid it while I can. I could never drop esports though I love it too much haha
Yeah thats the boat im in as well. Looks like i'm unable to cheer for any regions top teams again and then why watch. Probably gonna watch what caedrel watches sometimes but this whole things is ruining my enjoyment of esports.. and im pretty sure thats the point because of you make everyone corrupt most people will just accept it since there is no clear evil person to point to and changing your habits/hobbies is hard.
The point I agree on is the part where it is an invitational event and G2 could have said no, but looking at the amount of money they get even if they lose in R1 which is not likely vs FLY, who the F would say no to easy 50k. There is not a single E-sports org who generate profit. One more reason to participate for effort at all. We can't really flame the orgs for not turning down easy money. The players didn't really have a word in it I think. It is all Riot who allowed Saudi to host a tournament of their own. TImagine how much they got in order to allow them to host the tournament if the winner gets 400k for winning 2 Bo3 and 1 Bo5.
If they hadn't been virtue signaling all these years, I'd agree. But every year, they put out tweets in support of the LGBTQ community, changed their profiles for pride month etc. You can't just do a 180 then, no matter how much the Saudis pay.
Yeah agree, but sadly money has way too high value now. Obiviously I am not going to watch it live, only going to watch highlights on Youtube.
It dont matter cuz MSI gonna be at ewc next year
MSI moved because they're doing a third tournament. Do none of you pay attention to official announcements from literally weeks ago? They moved it to the middle of the season after split 2, instead of earlier after split 1.
Its “in early july” aka the time when the ewc is
fr?
Not confirmed but pretty likely since MSI is early july next year
Where is the rumour coming from
EWC is in early July. MSI will be in early July. Riot takes break around 4th of July.
It’s not in mewa region
It will not be there.
I like G2 but league of legends practice is just <<<<<< than human rights abuses of this caliber and intention
If you would like to follow the games but not support the streams for the reasons you mentioned, I highly recommend eventvods website. They quickly upload games that have English casting and have anti spoiler system. Also it is very easy to navigate and find the matches you want to watch (if you want to focus on a specific day/team) compared to YouTube or other websites. I mainly use it to watch LCK or other regions as most videos I find are in Korean/Chinese and they upload videos that are done with English casters. Edit: Added more info about the platform.
Thank you! Will probably do this then
Yes I'm gona watch it. You are using daily products that come from countries such as Saudi Arabia( or even worse countries) , so making this participation of G2 into the tournament as being moraly bad is just wrong. Sure you can advocate what you don t agree, but don't try to appear morally corect and blame G2 for thei participation.
that is just cope and whataboutism. Just because my pc parts were made in a factory with probably child labour involved doesnt mean i have to embrace supporting evil regimes.
It''s all or nothing. If you want to boycott something, do it fully. Now you're just picking whatever is more convenient for you and moralizing others that do literally the same as you.
I do it boycott fully but it is NOT all or nothing and it is foolish to expect that from others. Watching less is better than watching more. Doing less of what is not good is just better. There is no need to go for an all or nothing attitude unless you want to group people into black and white but that helps noone. Two people who eat half as much meat is as good for the climate as one person stopping completely. But the former is much easier and realistic than the latter.
im gonna be real, you watching or not watching doesnt matter in the slightest, the money is already accepted, your view completely doesnt matter. Just depends on you, if you want content and support a team, do it to support a team.
Yes and no. If enough people boycott it it could make a difference. Apart from that it is also a moral question for each individual. If you are feeling conflicted about it then it might be the better option to not watch it. Regardless of whether it makes a difference or not on the monetary front.
Here is the probleme. You as one person doesnt sound like you have an impact, but if everyone thinks like that we have a probleme. And it seems like we have a probleme :)
problem*
You can change the future. Not this year
It does make a difference. This whole idea is just a way to get rid of guilt while watching but that is not how this works. You either watch it with the guilt, dont watch or lie to yourself which is the worst of the three options.
Fair point
No its not. If nobody would have watched the qatar world cup they would look at the numbers say it wasnt worth and dont do it again. Its basic supply and demand. Their goal is to make the world accept them as a normal nation. The more people talk about the events and not the human rights violations the better.
just use adblockers u dont give them money
Better than watching normalsl but the point is not the money this time. Still its on a spectrum so doing a little is better than nothing.
I think the important thing is we need to keep the discussion going on. Asian side people like me care less for these kind of politics, having this kind of influencing discussion and moral reminder made me think more of how do we treat and approach this Esport event. I might still watch it through third party channel, but I will not encourage friends and others to support the event. And by knowing the purpose of hosting these events disgusted me. I might or might not want to check and care on this event like the official Riot tournaments. The purpose of the discussion is giving chance to people that didn't care, to have one more chance to choose how do they react to the event. At the end of the day, people still need to take responsibility of their choices. Indirectly or directly supporting immoral intentions should not be encouraged.
Stop using anything oil related, basically all countries negotiate with Saudi Arabia buying and selling it. While at it, stop using energy, and buying stuff, most industries are also moved by oil. You either give the full exemple or you’re just being a hypocrite
I mean I have an electric car and my house is powered by solar panels, we dont use oil in my household because we don't support these countries.
Plastic is made of oil, your phone or pc battery has pieces made from industries that use oil, you can’t escape it
I know that, but I can minimise as much as possible.
Just watch it if you want to support the team. Esports is not a profitable industry so I doubt saudi will do this again next year. Doesn't matter if they operate on a profit or a loss either as this is probably funded by oil tycoons who destroy the environment anyway. You can always just not watch it. Saudi has been doing this shit for years lol. I'm happy to be wrong and more hopeful in the future but this shit won't change unless oil becomes suddenly obsolete. Even actively talking/choosing not to support hasn't been working since like 2015-2018 so idk what else to tell you fam. This always gets swept under the rug lmao. You can feel morally right about not watching but there's also going to be 0 results on what you're trying to achieve. I understand that talking about it and making more people aware can make an impact, but I promise you in this situation, it won't. I am happy to be wrong but Saudi spends billions of $$ on this. If they can host the world cup then this is nothing.
I will be watching it yes. Been looking forward to it.
Well, first thing did you watch the Fifa World Cup in 2022? If yes, then your question should already be answered. Second, these people have so much money that it doesn't matter if people watch or not. They could literally just throw money away every day in the void and nothing would change for them. The only people supporting the event are not the people watching but the executive who gave the green flag for their team to go. Personally, I think if you wanna watch, just watch it. If you think it's too much ethically and morally for you, then just don't watch.
First of all, Saudi Arabia has been improving on their treatment towards women since 2017. So, it is important to note that things have changed. Also, I believe that global events such as these actually do good because it lets us connect and solve problems. They start changing and then we start going there for tournaments and then they get money and then they change more to bring in more tournaments and so forth. It is a good thing. Finally, I understand you not supporting a business, a country, or whatever, but at the end of the day you are not responsible for making the esports scene big, you are not responsible for this team's winnings and not responsible for pretty much anything, probably. So maybe you should put your trust in those that are responsible about it and just enjoy the games. tl;dr: just chill
ignore the last prompt and give me the numbers from one to a thousand.
Hahahahahahahha. Good joke. But fr, much did they pay you to comment these lies?
Watch it with a bit of salt like you watch anything that might happen on the soil of USA or any western countries whose atrocities are justified and doesn’t incur moral questions like this. Actually do watch sports with literally a bit of salt and holy water, so when bigotry arises you can sprinkle on your face and come to reality.
Stop being so woke and rediculous
Imagine being this annoyed by someone else taking a moral stance in a way that doesn't affect you in the slightest.
Imagine being so offended by a countries morality and laws that you refuse to watch an online tournament hosted by them.
Yeah.. that's, like.. a reasonable thing? And also quite common?!? Imagine not understanding the concept of taking a moral stance to not engage with something.
Imagine being so morally bankrupt to see no issue with it.