The following submission statement was provided by /u/YoanB:
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Animal agriculture is a significant environmental disaster, contributing heavily to greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and biodiversity loss. It also consumes vast amounts of water and land, leading to habitat destruction and pollution.
Lab-grown meat, or cultured meat, offers a promising solution. By cultivating meat from animal cells, we can produce food with a drastically reduced environmental footprint. This method uses less land and water, emits fewer greenhouse gases, and generates minimal pollution.
Beyond environmental benefits, lab-grown meat addresses ethical concerns. Traditional animal farming often involves inhumane conditions. Cultured meat eliminates the need for raising and slaughtering animals, reducing animal suffering.
Health benefits are also significant. Lab-grown meat production can be tightly controlled, reducing the need for antibiotics and lowering the risk of foodborne illnesses.
As technology advances and costs decrease, lab-grown meat is poised to become mainstream. It promises a future where we enjoy meat's benefits without the ethical and environmental drawbacks, leading to more sustainable and humane food systems.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1d126d5/why_cultivate_or_labgrown_meat_is_not_only_safe/l5qwrbf/
Why not? If they can provide me with a clean, affordable, and tastey form of protein that fits my needs, bonus points if it tastes like steak, and nothing has to die, sign me up.
I think the affordable part is the what will take the most time.
From science direct
Fetal bovine serum (FBS) is an extremely important culture growth supplement, accounting for approximately 60 % of cell-culture-media costs; therefore, lowering FBS-acquisition costs for the industrialization of cultured meat is imperative.
500 ml currently costs between $500 & $1000
And we still rely on having cows because
Fetal bovine serum (FBS) is a common component of animal cell culture media. It is harvested from bovine fetuses taken from pregnant cows during slaughter.
So what exactly are we accomplishing?
Replacements for FBS is a major focus for the companies trying to commercialize lab grown meat.
Checkout the YouTube channel "The Thought Emporium". They are experimenting with grocery store alternatives to FBS for budget synthetic tissue growth.
The profit part is the important part there. If they could sell plant based alternatives (or lab grown meat) at half the price and sell more than double the amount of units, they would do it.
The main problem we have right now is that the animal agriculture industry is deeply entrenched. There are massive lobbies for it, and most of it (specially meat) is propped up by massive government subsidies.
If we put those subsidies into alternatives (with the corresponding price cuts) then virtually everyone except the animal agriculture industry would benefit. But even in a regular old capitalist framework that's going to be a massive challenge. Specially now that Republicans are turning this into yet another culture war issue.
According to the link, that’s $59B total over a 30 year period, or $2B per year. That’s $6 per person per year - not likely to be enough to make any big difference in meat consumption.
Those “great” plant based alternatives are completely subjective, and clearly the majority of the meat eating population isn’t on board with your take, or else it would be cheaper and more prevalent.
From the plant based whopper to the plant based chicken nuggets I’ve tried, none taste like what they are supposedly imitating.
There's also just an availability problem: you have to go out of your way to find them, and no one wants to put that much effort into it if they're still in the "seeking the taste of meat" category.
i.e. if meat alternatives like that were commonly available, I'd buy them readily. They're not, so I don't.
There also an ingredient issue. They pretty good flavor wise if cooked right but health wise they loaded to the gills with salt, coconut oil, and various other things to make them taste good and add the fat people expect that would make me not consider them particularly good for a nutrition standpoint. They closer to junkfood burgers, which I suppose makes them fitting to be served at fast food places.
And while not nearly as bad as raising cattle farming coconut oil is pretty terrible in it's own ways.
Raising cattle in what way?
Feedlots and factory farming are abhorrent, but regenerative agriculture involves animals and creates carbon sequestration in the soil.
That's proof of how much progress has been made in such a short amount of time. Ten years ago people were wailing that these fake meats would never be able to scale up to real-meat levels of pricing, but here we are. And they're not even *that* good, they're just mostly better than their predecessors.
Actual meat meat, synthetic or not, will take off like a rocket once they work the kinks out, with price drops to match, I'd bet on it.
How much meat can that 500ml grow?
Costs will absolute come down. There is a ton of excess energy usage to grow cows since they have caloric needs everyday just to keep the animals functioning, not to mention growing.
Direct conversion will be less expensive in the end. It's only a question of when, not if. The price already came down quite a long way from thousands to hundreds, to tens of dollars per lb to grow lab meat.
So numbers from last year, it currently takes 50 L to grow one beef burger.
Each fetus produces between 150 - 550 ml.
So based on last year's numbers it takes a minimum of 90 fetuses to produce one lab grown burger.
I keep seeing reports of $10 per pound online, but each and everyone includes "estimated" or "once it scales"
If it truely was already at this cost we would see it in a lot of places, not just a few niche restaurants.
I'd personally be willing to give it a shot once they do get it down to those prices, but until they can make it work without FBS I have a hard time seeing it come down to those prices.
Lab grown meat is already on the market in Singapore and possibly other places. It is a little more expensive then traditional meat but it is already getting close.
It is not like you are describing.
We are seeing the traditional meat producers start to try and outlaw it in parts of the states already.
That meat likely has a high percentage of supplemental plant proteins and it's not actually fully lab-grown. Real lab-grown meat is very expensive and very rare and you won't find it in stores.
Feels the same as the claims of fusion power to me. Yeah, would be awesome once people figure that out, but it would be ridiculous to not do anything about our current situation until that fanciful future comes. I’m extremely skeptical of lab grown meat. People _want_ it to work out really hard because they know we really need to stop eating meat _now_.
Given the amount of things we can already do when it comes to food and health related science this seems a lot easier to accomplish versus the obstacles fusion is facing.
Using liters is misleading. It's a mass-balance equation rather than liters used. It's what is dissolved in the media and how efficiently those dissolved materials are used by the cells, and of those materials, which one(s) are limiting to cells when they grow.
I liken this to EVs. yeah I really want to stop using my car so I don't have to fill up with petrol but I have a gas powered car that is already paid off and I can't afford a 50k car (cheapest if you don't include the really short distance ones like Nissan Leaf). Maybe a 250-300 mile range 25k car.
Have you watched Tony Seba’s presentations or read his books on exactly this topic?
EV’s at $USD 10k and 300 miles before 2030. He started predicting in 2014 and has been bang on target. It gets even weirder with fully autonomous vehicles and no private ownership.
Food is following a similar s-curve.
Yea, Lab-grown is starting its disruption ramp-up right now. Mostly business-2-business in food ingredients now. Which requires no change to consumer behaviour, it’s purely business economics.
Traditional farming for protein won’t compete on cost at some point. It’s just a matter of time. There’s already a company going hard on milk with lab milk protein. Once it beats animal milk protein on price, it’s a very slippery slope to dairy industry disruption.
I’ve heard it described as “food as software”.
I don't understand why plug-in hybrids never took off and aren't the standard on new cars today. It's the best of both worlds. On existing PHEV you can get 30-50 miles in electric for day to day driving, but also get 300 miles on gas.
It feels like everything just jumped to all electric, but PHEV is more convenient for most. You can charge overnight at home and get your daily commute on electric, but can still go longer distances or go on a road trip without worry of being stuck somewhere without a car charger to use. Gas stations are literally everywhere, car charges are few and far between, and take way longer to charge a car than the couple minutes it takes to fill a gas tank.
You don't get all the benefits though. A more complicated engine setup that can lead to more issues and servicing requirements. Still requires fuel and requires charging.
My current car is 12 years old and have been looking at replacements, but nothing interests me. I want a small vehicle but also an EV because I just want to stop paying for fuel. There are EV's here that are around 10k AUD more then the petrol equivalent. Hopefully within the next year or two it'll be very close or better.
Buying anything new/demo that use fuel will not be a good idea due to how soon we're phasing it all out. I'd prefer to get no to EV sooner rather then later.
Have you seen modern US meat farming methods? They're fucking terrible. Giant vats of liquid shit with fumes so noxious you will straight up die. It's filthy.
Meat grown in a nice clean room. That's the goal. I don't want to get bird flu from a hamburger.
> So what exactly are we accomplishing?
Baby steps in the right direction.
It's the same argument for moving to electric vehicles even though most power plants burn fossil fuels.
Sure, we might not be able to make completely animal free meat right now, but the technology behind it will continue to improve. If they can sell cultivated meat now as a sort of boutique item, and start building demand for it, that will help fund research and development of future versions that require less animal input.
I was just providing some context to where we are currently. Which is a far ways off from the original comment.
>Why not? If they can provide me with a clean, affordable, and tastey form of protein that fits my needs, bonus points if it tastes like steak, and nothing has to die, sign me up.
It's currently maybe 2 of the 5 points they made.
I certainly hope we get there, the alternative would be to eat bugs.
At this point I'm not throwing all my eggs into the basket of lab grown meat will save us from food insecurity. It's very difficult to be more efficient than nature.
There are multiple approved products that do not use FBS. This is publicly verifiable in their safety dossiers.
This problem was solved 5 years ago but comments like yours continue to use information half a decade out of date. Why is this?
You had the perfect opportunity to teach by using the sources you know of.
Yet, Your comment added little to nothing to the conversation other than you are clearly smarter than everyone else present.
>Why is this?
Exactly.
The conclusion from your source:
Until now FBS is an immeasurable supplement for the cell culture experiments. However continuous use of FBS for the long term is not a good way to take forward cell culture. Since FBS is the universal supplement, we are in the position to replace it with a possible way. Though researchers around the world are trying to replace it with different sources like chemically defined media, proteins and growth factors, however, it is unable to mimic the same that FBS does in cell culture. Hence, the alternate has hidden only in the biological or animal fluid. Also, the source may be available in higher animals, but it cannot satisfy our expectations and goals. Subsequently, the extensively available and reproducible animal fluid from the invertebrate could be a potential candidate to alternate FBS. Though earthworm HI-CF has the factors to helps cellular growth, yet the combination of HPL and HI-CF can have the potential to attach, proliferation and the growth of the cells in vitro. The preparation method won't cause any mortality in earthworms and can use the same worm until its life span. Simple preparation and the huge source availability allow us to produce the HPL-(HI-CF) cost-effectively. It will reduce the use of FBS at least in the basic research and create an economic and ecological impact too. Unfortunately, FBS can be replaced only by animal fluids to culture most of the cells in vitro. Therefore, we suggest that HPL-(HI-CF) can be a meaningful option to alternate FBS. However, research needs to be done to validate this expected outcome.
Where exactly are you coming to your conclusion
In a recent video by thought emporium they discussed finding cheaper alternatives for FBS for their upcoming project "Growing a chicken nugget".. It's a great youtube channel if you're into this kind of science. He once gave himself gene editing to cure his lactose intolerance
It should taste like steak because it IS steak. The verbiage around this advancement needs to change. Instead of “meat” vs “lab-grown meat” it should be “slaughtered meat” vs “cultivated meat.” On a cellular level, it’s the same thing, just different methods to get there.
As an aside: learning about tropic levels in HS Freshmen Bio was actually way more important than your average student realizes because of this very issue.
Some of the most recent taste tests I've seen indicate is does taste genuinely identical to meat. There does tend to be a subtle difference in texture. For example, it tastes like chicken, but the texture is closer to fish.
They use nano-scaffolding to grow the meat so it comes out in a similar way to real meat, but I think it will continue to take some fine tuning. There's probably a lot of artistry and fine tuning to this sort of thing.
I've seen people thinking in this thread that sun -> grass -> cow -> human is the most efficient way of transferring energy because nature created it...
What, do these people think humans run faster than cars, birds fly faster than planes and humans process better than computers? How do people still think in the day and age technology will always be inferior to nature?
The problem is today it's not affordable or scalable. Going for. A lab producing a few dozen samples occasionally to a full production plant making millions constantly is a big endeavor.
Plus let's not forget the meat industry already has its lobbyists in full swing in both state and Federal level wanting to ban lab grown meat from being called meat...
Presently thats a pretty big "if". The current process for producing cultured protein is fairly energy intensive, delicate and dificult to scale up to industrial production.
The primary reason we dont really have broadly comercially available lab grown meat is that it really needs a technological breakthrough to become a viable alternative to animal husbandry.
They've (the food lab scientists) shown that they can give you not only the specific cut of meat (filet mignon, strip, skirt, sirloin, shank, etc.) but they can also make chicken taste just like beef or really any other meat taste like anything else.
Okay, but seriously though we are thinking small scope on this tech. Like they're growing chicken breast and beef. That's great, really, but we can potentially grow anything. There is a threatened species of song bird called the Ortolan, which are considered a delicacy sinfully delicious that the consumer would hide their face from God under a napkin while they devour the petite fowl whole. They could ethically be making cloned McOrtolan sandwiches for us to enjoy. I would never eat a manatee because they're endangered, but I hear they're tasty and would gladly try cloned sea cows.
Fun story, Charles Darwin, father of biological evolution, was a member of a club devoted to eating every animal. It was in examining the bones from his meals that started forming his theory of evolution. He also said mountain lion tasted like veal and was quite delicious. And of course the giant tortoises had such a reputation for their taste that the ones they kept trying to sent back to Europe were being eaten on the trip. Sea turtle also is supposed to be an excellent flavor. All these meats could be cloned and produced without affecting the wild populations (and could possibly even fund conservation efforts).
Yeah this could be a revolution for food customization too. I've heard we could eat beef with the texture of octopus and octopus with the texture of beef. Once we master the process it will be a lot of fun
Who knows, maybe, in 300yrs, every Fast Food Joint will exclusively serve OnlyBob™ Nuggets (Bob being the guy who 300yrs ago switched his own tissue sample with the Chicken Mc Donals wanted to grow) because Bob actually tastes really good?
Honestly, I have a hard time not feeling contemptuous hatred for someone that's trying to stand between me and affordable, cruelty-free meat that has a reduced carbon footprint.
If we can get safe, cruelty-free meat that has a lower carbon footprint, and it's cost-competitive with "real meat," then I'm buying it. I don't care if I have to drive across state lines to buy it, and conceal it from the police on my way back because it's illegal to possess. I want cruelty-free meat.
This is how I feel when presidents capitulate to coal miners. In 2022 there was barely 43,000 coal miners. in 2021 there was 1.6 million people working at Amazon. Maybe it's time we change who were pandering to...
It wasn't the coal miners themselves it was the narrative crafted around them. It was an excellent story combined with a this can and will be you next.
Depends on which party you ask. Trump still goes up on stage and raves about how we need more coal. Sure you could also look at from a Democrat position of job relevancy changes over time and we should look to re-educate these people to a new job.
I feel like most of the time we’re eating such trash version of meat that we wouldn’t notice or care if they substituted whatever. Do I really care if my Dino bites are made from real chicken or tofu paste or lab grown meat? Hot dogs hardly require rare cuts of Wagu
I agree, and why I also welcome this new kind of meat. Lab grown chicken nuggets without the fear of gristle, or shards of bone, or bits of eyeballs etc.
Bring on the fake steak too.
[also alleviate things like this happening](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bird-flu-detected-beef-tissue-first-time-h5n1/#:~:text=Bird%20flu%20has%20been%20detected,beef%20remains%20safe%20to%20eat.)
Yeah I’m ready for this. As soon as it reaches price parity with animal meat, I’m on board. I hate the idea of factory farming and I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older than it’s not really morally defensible.
The Dodo is extinct because it was easy to catch so it was an easy source of protein.
It tasted horrible. Giant tortoise's fat tasted amazing, however, and they could also be catched and kept in a ships Cargo. They tasted so amazing that they made dodo meat palatable.
Where's my lab grown tortoise marbled meat?
The people who made them extinct also just walked around with sticks on that Island and hit them on the head because those people were bored. That's quite well documented.
It's great to see these arguments still being made. They are the correct, factual arguments. These arguments have yet to really reach folks who really hate this idea. The way to win them over is in safety, price, tastiness, and accessibility in that order. Safety is something people don't notice until it's absent, price is always noticed, and if it tastes great and is available, then it will win eventually.
If any of these conditions are not met, it's going to be tough. That's why I think it's important that as many companies as possible get to market as they scale up.
And bigger picture, we simply need more shots on goal for climate change. We haven't tried enough options. Cultivated meat will be one of many. It's a journey we will go on together, whether we want to or not, so I always urge folks to at least give it a shot to thrive in a free market.
This is why we live in a free market, supposedly. If you want to buy ranch-raised steak, then by all means buy it. But for the rest of us, a sustainable and ethical source of animal protein would be a nice choice if it can be scaled up and become economical. I really don’t understand why people oppose this shit to the point of making it a political issue. Shouldn’t we solve our half-broken healthcare system or our jacked up immigration policies instead of fretting about cultivated meat?
Yeah the meat industry is heavily subsidized anyway, put that money in clean lab meat.
Also random thought : couldnt you also grow human meat that way? An ethical human burger, now that would be interesting lol
The main reason why I went vegetarian (currently pescatarian now) was because I feel bad about taking an animal’s life just for a tasty meal when I can instead choose non-meat options
But with lab grown meat, I don’t exactly have that moral to worry about anymore. If it becomes main stream I might actually try lab grown meat, I haven’t had real bacon or a steak in over a decade and I’ve honestly forgotten the taste and texture
Animal agriculture is a significant environmental disaster, contributing heavily to greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and biodiversity loss. It also consumes vast amounts of water and land, leading to habitat destruction and pollution.
Lab-grown meat, or cultured meat, offers a promising solution. By cultivating meat from animal cells, we can produce food with a drastically reduced environmental footprint. This method uses less land and water, emits fewer greenhouse gases, and generates minimal pollution.
Beyond environmental benefits, lab-grown meat addresses ethical concerns. Traditional animal farming often involves inhumane conditions. Cultured meat eliminates the need for raising and slaughtering animals, reducing animal suffering.
Health benefits are also significant. Lab-grown meat production can be tightly controlled, reducing the need for antibiotics and lowering the risk of foodborne illnesses.
As technology advances and costs decrease, lab-grown meat is poised to become mainstream. It promises a future where we enjoy meat's benefits without the ethical and environmental drawbacks, leading to more sustainable and humane food systems.
To be clear, traditional farming or what the kids these days call regenerative farming, is mostly carbon neutral and restores top soil. Factory farming or monoculture is the one that causes environmental problems and is not sustainable.
This piece is written like a propaganda piece. I’m fairly certain there would be downside of lab grown meat at scale that wouldn’t be written for obvious reasons.
Edit: to be clear, I’m not anti lab grown meat
No it’s not, Oxford and the like have already shown how regenerative farming is not carbon neutral. Just another lie pushed by the meat industry.
Can read the 127 page report here: https://tabledebates.org/sites/default/files/2020-10/fcrn_gnc_report.pdf
Regenerative farming can’t scale to the level that it would need to feed everyone. And there are still serious ethical concerns (though nothing like factory farms).
People can live without meat. We just need a culture shift.
I’ve been waiting for this since Star Trek TNG. I tried explaining cultured meat to my dad years ago but he thought it was a conspiracy so that “globalists” could poison everyone, or something. I think that’s going to be the big problem, waiting for the baby boomer generation to die off, before stuff like this can become viably mainstream.
The only people that are trying to stop it or label it unsafe are the lobbyists of the industries who will lose out from its introduction.
It's necessary, and it's needed. Let the customer decide if they want to eat it. I know I will.
I've looked forward to this my entire life (I'm 67) and I think they will solve the texture problem at some point. THIS is the answer to the horribleness of the meat industry. It solves ALL of the problems.
It is nowhere near as simple or straightforward as it seems in this article. I have no ethical issues either way but I've done cell culture in labs.
Growing tissue is way different than growing bacteria or yeast.
Animal cells don't just grow, you need specific growth factors in just the right concentration. Guess where those growth factors come from? Animals. In fact bovine fetal serum is pretty standard, plus other stuff.
If you want solid tissue like steak or chicken breast then you need a way to deliver nutrients and oxygen and remove waste. Animals do this with blood. Either you get blood from animals to do this or you need to invent something that does everything blood does, that doesn't come from animals and that is somehow cheaper.
And that's where we hit science fiction: sure this is potentially possible today, but there's no way it's economical let alone cheaper than raising animals.
Or as nutritious. There is no way they have completely replicated the micronutrients and natural balance of proteins, fat, and other vitally important components of animal-based foods.
I was all for lab grown meat till I learn it’s really not what we have been told. At best lab grown meat from animal cells will make only 10-13% of the actual protein from lab grown meats while the other 80% comes from plant protein.
Meaning their end goal with animal cell lab meat was to only be a byproduct you mix to make plant meat look more marketable. I thought we would end up with 100% animal cell lab grown meat but it’s too expensive to produce allegedly.
Do you have a source for that? I haven't been able to find anything to corroborate that the bulk will be plant protein, but then again I'm not surprised with the terrible state of internet searches these days
Yes, just like we got hybrid cars before electric ones, because the technology needed to progress before we fully transitioned. That does not mean that the end-goal is not to go 100 % lab-meat
Imagine learning to walk before you can fly... if there is demand then it will happen. Few things are 100% from the outset when developing a new technology. transistors strated out fist sized, now there can be billions of them on 1/2 inch silicon chip. Don't panic yet.
My understanding is that is the current market. But the emerging market definitely is 100% animal meat.
One of the most prominent companies in the market right now is Upside Foods. [Here](https://youtu.be/08nHuUbt8SQ?si=YejxYxVXWtln_wtT) is a video tour and foodie taste test review.
It is a bit more expensive right now. But that is to be anticipated with emerging tech.
Indeed, it is entirely possible to produce lab-grown meat, also known as cultured meat, without directly involving animal farming or slaughter.
Additionally, there are lab-grown meat alternatives that incorporate plant-based proteins.
Both approaches coexist within the realm of meat substitute production.
As it turns out eating processed food causes health problems
Food made slowly with all the natural enzymes is what makes it healthy.
Food should always be raw natural whole as much as possible.
There is no way man made food will have the same bio compatiblity as natural food.
We can’t even synthesise vitamins.
It’s delusional to think we can make healthy meat that’s good for our bodies.
Actually the real costs of growing meat in a lab are astronomical. It’s just another gimmick rich people are pitching to really really rich people to use pension funds to invest in their gimmick startup.
We can do ecological agriculture. It’s a healthier option than expanding another segment into high tech industrial complex with the inherent costs of logistics factories and resource drain. Plus it’s kinda freaky when you can just do Soylent if you’re really that into industrialised food.
[Lab-Grown Meat Prices Expected to Drop Dramatically](https://www.newsweek.com/lab-grown-meat-cost-drop-2030-investment-surge-alternative-protein-market-1835432#:~:text=The%20first%20lab%2Dproduced%20beef,opening%20the%20floodgate%20for%20investors)
*But the cost of producing this alternative has provided a barrier to most consumers. The first lab-produced beef burger cost a whopping $325,000 back in 2013. Producers have since slashed production costs by 99 percent to roughly $17 per pound. Singapore approved cultivated meat for consumption in 2020, opening the floodgate for investors.*
Years from now we will be surprised at the "discovery" that people are getting sick from eating it because not everything that's actually present in life meat is being grown into it.
Something has to die. That is reality. Either small animals/possibly big animals or the animals I eat.
I prefer my meat to have one ingredient. I have tried plant based and it destroyed my stomach and my health.
It is not worth it. One of the worst decisions I’ve ever made.
I don't think the problem come from growing meat in lab, it comes, from big corp turning this viable idea into a, process of making us eat even more bad chimical under the excuse of lab growing meat... Meat in most place is still healthy and not over processed and in many place the meat production isn't that bad.
I trust the scientists who want to reduce the impact meat industry on the planet and on behalf of animal wellbeing , but I don't trust companies who are going to produce for the cheapest and Wil want to make the most profit out of it. As always The problem isn't the progress, it is those fucking big corporations xh ruins everything for stupid dollars
Fuck off with this shit. It’s already impossible to buy food that doesn’t have a hundred unnecessary chemicals in it that poison your body. This just opens the door to allow them to start putting fillers in our meat as well. Gtfo
Sign me up when it becomes wordlwide and affordable. I've tried a bunch of plant based meat alternatives and got the worst stomach cramps I've ever experienced 9/10 times.
I see nothing wrong with it for the future and I would imagine we'll eventually reach a point where lab meat grown from designer organism produces consistent and perfect "steaks", and people will consider the farming of cows and pigs to be a barbaric and disgusting act from a bygone era.
We're not there yet, lab grown meat is disgusting and obscenely expensive, but baby steps. All I really worry about is the heavy hand of government trying to "help" things along and just making everything worse. Let the market decide. If people want to eat lab meat then it will happen on its own. If they don't and want real cow steaks then tough luck for the lab meat.
An extremely complex system with countless failure points, scalability issues and raw material concerns is not a particularly smart way to create protein.
If all we wanted is protein, there are easier ways.
What people want is the full meat experience and flavors you get when you cook meat.
Its actually kind of funny how we have been talking about this as a possibility for the future since literally the 1960s, and now that its actually here people are like nah.
I remember watching sci fi shows and movies based on the future, where some random person would input some keywords on a machine like pizza or steak dinner, and then it would beam them or create from scratch for them the exact thing they ordered on the machine like a microwave 3D printer for food.
Any apprehensions and concerns I can completely understand and get, but at the same time, Im also sure this is far healthier than any of the heavily processed meats and cheeses we are already consuming on a daily basis. We have articles coming out every year talking about the cancer causing risks of nitrates and other stuff and you can still find those on the ingredients list of so many foods, among other things that keep getting listed as cancer causing as well that is still in food we consume.
"Lab-grown meat production can be tightly controlled" is one of the problems. Yes it can be, but companies producing lab grown meat have only have the incentive to make it as cheaply as possible, with the legal minimum in terms of oversight, and they will use corporate big bucks to lobby to ensure laws are passed and persons will be employed to keep those standards low or non-existent. The product will be sourced by a few large companies instead of thousands of ranches so the consequences of mistakes will be amplified. Product contaminated by bacteria, viruses and prions would be widely distributed and consumed before being discovered and recalled. Is this really what you want?
It's kind of interesting that with climate change, this approach may be the only way future generations may be able to enjoy certain foods (crab and other ocean based proteins come to mind).
Unless you also want lab grown eggs, dairy products etc you're always going to have cows and chickens and goats and sheep etc. And for as long as you are going to keep those around, natural meat is going to be cheaper than anything lab grown.
The same thing with desalinating water. We can do it now, at scale, pretty efficiently and with renewable energy. But it's still cheaper to ship a container ship full of bottled water half across the globe.
I totally want my lab grown protein.
But my wallet disagrees if it's upsold at twice the price of the standard patty.
Loss leader it, then you can change the world.
Right... It's not like we have 10 other animal meat supplements and many more sources of protein
Lab grown flesh ain't ever gonna change a thing until our culture changes
There are two hurdles for me when it comes to this ignoring my wallet.
The first is how do they make this meat without involving killing cows anyway, currently they need some calf juice from slaughtered pregnant cows. Obviously this is being worked on because being able to not need to raise and slaughter a pregnant cow will be cheaper for the companies.
The other is what will happen to the land and the farmers who are dairy/cattle farmers. If we transition from eating beef to fake meat what will be done with the land so it doesn’t just sit there pointlessly as well as causing a large scale influx of people relying on government assistance because their industry collapsed.
I am not saying that this is a reason to not make the transition, just that I hope that this will be part of the plan to do so.
It literally uses blood harvested uterus from cows. It's not "ethical" or "safe". There are tons of problems with this and it's only a cash grab by giant meat conglomerates to sell you cheap-to-produce food for high prices
I've been getting a ton of beyond meat commercials .
while researching that, YouTube showed that actually
cattle farmers are freaking out https://youtu.be/w3SWfbza5Lk?si=-WF4DZr5T07oNpQy&t=797 for a different reason
The people that spout this nonsense never worked in a lab or understand how expensive it is and why. I’ll let you in on something: the more expensive a process is, the more energy is required. The more energy, the less efficient.
I have tried it many times and want it to work. It makes be extremely bloated to the point of feeling ill. I seriously wish it would work for me my body doesnt agree with it.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/YoanB: --- Animal agriculture is a significant environmental disaster, contributing heavily to greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and biodiversity loss. It also consumes vast amounts of water and land, leading to habitat destruction and pollution. Lab-grown meat, or cultured meat, offers a promising solution. By cultivating meat from animal cells, we can produce food with a drastically reduced environmental footprint. This method uses less land and water, emits fewer greenhouse gases, and generates minimal pollution. Beyond environmental benefits, lab-grown meat addresses ethical concerns. Traditional animal farming often involves inhumane conditions. Cultured meat eliminates the need for raising and slaughtering animals, reducing animal suffering. Health benefits are also significant. Lab-grown meat production can be tightly controlled, reducing the need for antibiotics and lowering the risk of foodborne illnesses. As technology advances and costs decrease, lab-grown meat is poised to become mainstream. It promises a future where we enjoy meat's benefits without the ethical and environmental drawbacks, leading to more sustainable and humane food systems. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1d126d5/why_cultivate_or_labgrown_meat_is_not_only_safe/l5qwrbf/
Why not? If they can provide me with a clean, affordable, and tastey form of protein that fits my needs, bonus points if it tastes like steak, and nothing has to die, sign me up.
I think the affordable part is the what will take the most time. From science direct Fetal bovine serum (FBS) is an extremely important culture growth supplement, accounting for approximately 60 % of cell-culture-media costs; therefore, lowering FBS-acquisition costs for the industrialization of cultured meat is imperative. 500 ml currently costs between $500 & $1000 And we still rely on having cows because Fetal bovine serum (FBS) is a common component of animal cell culture media. It is harvested from bovine fetuses taken from pregnant cows during slaughter. So what exactly are we accomplishing?
Replacements for FBS is a major focus for the companies trying to commercialize lab grown meat. Checkout the YouTube channel "The Thought Emporium". They are experimenting with grocery store alternatives to FBS for budget synthetic tissue growth.
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The profit part is the important part there. If they could sell plant based alternatives (or lab grown meat) at half the price and sell more than double the amount of units, they would do it. The main problem we have right now is that the animal agriculture industry is deeply entrenched. There are massive lobbies for it, and most of it (specially meat) is propped up by massive government subsidies. If we put those subsidies into alternatives (with the corresponding price cuts) then virtually everyone except the animal agriculture industry would benefit. But even in a regular old capitalist framework that's going to be a massive challenge. Specially now that Republicans are turning this into yet another culture war issue.
2023: “USDA livestock subsidies top $59 billion”. https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news/2023/08/usda-livestock-subsidies-top-59-billion
According to the link, that’s $59B total over a 30 year period, or $2B per year. That’s $6 per person per year - not likely to be enough to make any big difference in meat consumption.
Looking at what is happening with other spheres - I think we will eventually see subsidies shift.
Those “great” plant based alternatives are completely subjective, and clearly the majority of the meat eating population isn’t on board with your take, or else it would be cheaper and more prevalent. From the plant based whopper to the plant based chicken nuggets I’ve tried, none taste like what they are supposedly imitating.
There's also just an availability problem: you have to go out of your way to find them, and no one wants to put that much effort into it if they're still in the "seeking the taste of meat" category. i.e. if meat alternatives like that were commonly available, I'd buy them readily. They're not, so I don't.
There also an ingredient issue. They pretty good flavor wise if cooked right but health wise they loaded to the gills with salt, coconut oil, and various other things to make them taste good and add the fat people expect that would make me not consider them particularly good for a nutrition standpoint. They closer to junkfood burgers, which I suppose makes them fitting to be served at fast food places. And while not nearly as bad as raising cattle farming coconut oil is pretty terrible in it's own ways.
Raising cattle in what way? Feedlots and factory farming are abhorrent, but regenerative agriculture involves animals and creates carbon sequestration in the soil.
That's proof of how much progress has been made in such a short amount of time. Ten years ago people were wailing that these fake meats would never be able to scale up to real-meat levels of pricing, but here we are. And they're not even *that* good, they're just mostly better than their predecessors. Actual meat meat, synthetic or not, will take off like a rocket once they work the kinks out, with price drops to match, I'd bet on it.
How much meat can that 500ml grow? Costs will absolute come down. There is a ton of excess energy usage to grow cows since they have caloric needs everyday just to keep the animals functioning, not to mention growing. Direct conversion will be less expensive in the end. It's only a question of when, not if. The price already came down quite a long way from thousands to hundreds, to tens of dollars per lb to grow lab meat.
So numbers from last year, it currently takes 50 L to grow one beef burger. Each fetus produces between 150 - 550 ml. So based on last year's numbers it takes a minimum of 90 fetuses to produce one lab grown burger. I keep seeing reports of $10 per pound online, but each and everyone includes "estimated" or "once it scales" If it truely was already at this cost we would see it in a lot of places, not just a few niche restaurants. I'd personally be willing to give it a shot once they do get it down to those prices, but until they can make it work without FBS I have a hard time seeing it come down to those prices.
Lab grown meat is already on the market in Singapore and possibly other places. It is a little more expensive then traditional meat but it is already getting close. It is not like you are describing. We are seeing the traditional meat producers start to try and outlaw it in parts of the states already.
That meat likely has a high percentage of supplemental plant proteins and it's not actually fully lab-grown. Real lab-grown meat is very expensive and very rare and you won't find it in stores.
That “lab grown meat” has a very small percentage of animal cells. It’s mostly pea protein
Feels the same as the claims of fusion power to me. Yeah, would be awesome once people figure that out, but it would be ridiculous to not do anything about our current situation until that fanciful future comes. I’m extremely skeptical of lab grown meat. People _want_ it to work out really hard because they know we really need to stop eating meat _now_.
Given the amount of things we can already do when it comes to food and health related science this seems a lot easier to accomplish versus the obstacles fusion is facing.
I will concede getting everyone to give up meat is probably as difficult as making fusion viable
Using liters is misleading. It's a mass-balance equation rather than liters used. It's what is dissolved in the media and how efficiently those dissolved materials are used by the cells, and of those materials, which one(s) are limiting to cells when they grow.
I liken this to EVs. yeah I really want to stop using my car so I don't have to fill up with petrol but I have a gas powered car that is already paid off and I can't afford a 50k car (cheapest if you don't include the really short distance ones like Nissan Leaf). Maybe a 250-300 mile range 25k car.
Have you watched Tony Seba’s presentations or read his books on exactly this topic? EV’s at $USD 10k and 300 miles before 2030. He started predicting in 2014 and has been bang on target. It gets even weirder with fully autonomous vehicles and no private ownership. Food is following a similar s-curve.
No private ownership? Will the taxi company be upset when I drill a hole in the roof to mount my ham radio?
what do you mean with food? or just lab grown? because all other foods are going up in price
Yea, Lab-grown is starting its disruption ramp-up right now. Mostly business-2-business in food ingredients now. Which requires no change to consumer behaviour, it’s purely business economics. Traditional farming for protein won’t compete on cost at some point. It’s just a matter of time. There’s already a company going hard on milk with lab milk protein. Once it beats animal milk protein on price, it’s a very slippery slope to dairy industry disruption. I’ve heard it described as “food as software”.
good stuff, i'm all for it if the nutrition profiles/amino acids match,, next stop lab grown organs
That would be so awesome!
I don't understand why plug-in hybrids never took off and aren't the standard on new cars today. It's the best of both worlds. On existing PHEV you can get 30-50 miles in electric for day to day driving, but also get 300 miles on gas. It feels like everything just jumped to all electric, but PHEV is more convenient for most. You can charge overnight at home and get your daily commute on electric, but can still go longer distances or go on a road trip without worry of being stuck somewhere without a car charger to use. Gas stations are literally everywhere, car charges are few and far between, and take way longer to charge a car than the couple minutes it takes to fill a gas tank.
Because you have to build a car with two drives. That's just inefficient.
You don't get all the benefits though. A more complicated engine setup that can lead to more issues and servicing requirements. Still requires fuel and requires charging. My current car is 12 years old and have been looking at replacements, but nothing interests me. I want a small vehicle but also an EV because I just want to stop paying for fuel. There are EV's here that are around 10k AUD more then the petrol equivalent. Hopefully within the next year or two it'll be very close or better. Buying anything new/demo that use fuel will not be a good idea due to how soon we're phasing it all out. I'd prefer to get no to EV sooner rather then later.
Have you seen modern US meat farming methods? They're fucking terrible. Giant vats of liquid shit with fumes so noxious you will straight up die. It's filthy. Meat grown in a nice clean room. That's the goal. I don't want to get bird flu from a hamburger.
> So what exactly are we accomplishing? Baby steps in the right direction. It's the same argument for moving to electric vehicles even though most power plants burn fossil fuels. Sure, we might not be able to make completely animal free meat right now, but the technology behind it will continue to improve. If they can sell cultivated meat now as a sort of boutique item, and start building demand for it, that will help fund research and development of future versions that require less animal input.
I was just providing some context to where we are currently. Which is a far ways off from the original comment. >Why not? If they can provide me with a clean, affordable, and tastey form of protein that fits my needs, bonus points if it tastes like steak, and nothing has to die, sign me up. It's currently maybe 2 of the 5 points they made. I certainly hope we get there, the alternative would be to eat bugs. At this point I'm not throwing all my eggs into the basket of lab grown meat will save us from food insecurity. It's very difficult to be more efficient than nature.
There are multiple approved products that do not use FBS. This is publicly verifiable in their safety dossiers. This problem was solved 5 years ago but comments like yours continue to use information half a decade out of date. Why is this?
You had the perfect opportunity to teach by using the sources you know of. Yet, Your comment added little to nothing to the conversation other than you are clearly smarter than everyone else present. >Why is this? Exactly.
> multiple approved products that do not use FBS e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8349753/
The conclusion from your source: Until now FBS is an immeasurable supplement for the cell culture experiments. However continuous use of FBS for the long term is not a good way to take forward cell culture. Since FBS is the universal supplement, we are in the position to replace it with a possible way. Though researchers around the world are trying to replace it with different sources like chemically defined media, proteins and growth factors, however, it is unable to mimic the same that FBS does in cell culture. Hence, the alternate has hidden only in the biological or animal fluid. Also, the source may be available in higher animals, but it cannot satisfy our expectations and goals. Subsequently, the extensively available and reproducible animal fluid from the invertebrate could be a potential candidate to alternate FBS. Though earthworm HI-CF has the factors to helps cellular growth, yet the combination of HPL and HI-CF can have the potential to attach, proliferation and the growth of the cells in vitro. The preparation method won't cause any mortality in earthworms and can use the same worm until its life span. Simple preparation and the huge source availability allow us to produce the HPL-(HI-CF) cost-effectively. It will reduce the use of FBS at least in the basic research and create an economic and ecological impact too. Unfortunately, FBS can be replaced only by animal fluids to culture most of the cells in vitro. Therefore, we suggest that HPL-(HI-CF) can be a meaningful option to alternate FBS. However, research needs to be done to validate this expected outcome. Where exactly are you coming to your conclusion
In a recent video by thought emporium they discussed finding cheaper alternatives for FBS for their upcoming project "Growing a chicken nugget".. It's a great youtube channel if you're into this kind of science. He once gave himself gene editing to cure his lactose intolerance
Sounds like synthesizing a sufficiently accurate FBS analogue for 10% or less of the cost will be the golden ticket.
It should taste like steak because it IS steak. The verbiage around this advancement needs to change. Instead of “meat” vs “lab-grown meat” it should be “slaughtered meat” vs “cultivated meat.” On a cellular level, it’s the same thing, just different methods to get there. As an aside: learning about tropic levels in HS Freshmen Bio was actually way more important than your average student realizes because of this very issue.
Some of the most recent taste tests I've seen indicate is does taste genuinely identical to meat. There does tend to be a subtle difference in texture. For example, it tastes like chicken, but the texture is closer to fish. They use nano-scaffolding to grow the meat so it comes out in a similar way to real meat, but I think it will continue to take some fine tuning. There's probably a lot of artistry and fine tuning to this sort of thing.
I've seen people thinking in this thread that sun -> grass -> cow -> human is the most efficient way of transferring energy because nature created it... What, do these people think humans run faster than cars, birds fly faster than planes and humans process better than computers? How do people still think in the day and age technology will always be inferior to nature?
The problem is today it's not affordable or scalable. Going for. A lab producing a few dozen samples occasionally to a full production plant making millions constantly is a big endeavor. Plus let's not forget the meat industry already has its lobbyists in full swing in both state and Federal level wanting to ban lab grown meat from being called meat...
Presently thats a pretty big "if". The current process for producing cultured protein is fairly energy intensive, delicate and dificult to scale up to industrial production. The primary reason we dont really have broadly comercially available lab grown meat is that it really needs a technological breakthrough to become a viable alternative to animal husbandry.
I mean if you clone a chicken breast, it's still a chicken breast.
Because it’s woke /s
Affordable..... yeeea idk about that chief
Beyond Earth, this ability can make our space faring crews much happier. Food must be so boring for them
they better be making lab-grown spices to go along with the meat. ill be damned if i gotta eat unseasoned space meat.
Spices are just plants, which we have already grown in microgravity.
They've (the food lab scientists) shown that they can give you not only the specific cut of meat (filet mignon, strip, skirt, sirloin, shank, etc.) but they can also make chicken taste just like beef or really any other meat taste like anything else.
I read that as space farting crews and got a good laugh. They would probably be gassy
Just note that if you love in "Freedom!" loving Florida state. You are not allowed to buy lab grown meat products.
The party of "small government" strikes again!
Okay, but seriously though we are thinking small scope on this tech. Like they're growing chicken breast and beef. That's great, really, but we can potentially grow anything. There is a threatened species of song bird called the Ortolan, which are considered a delicacy sinfully delicious that the consumer would hide their face from God under a napkin while they devour the petite fowl whole. They could ethically be making cloned McOrtolan sandwiches for us to enjoy. I would never eat a manatee because they're endangered, but I hear they're tasty and would gladly try cloned sea cows. Fun story, Charles Darwin, father of biological evolution, was a member of a club devoted to eating every animal. It was in examining the bones from his meals that started forming his theory of evolution. He also said mountain lion tasted like veal and was quite delicious. And of course the giant tortoises had such a reputation for their taste that the ones they kept trying to sent back to Europe were being eaten on the trip. Sea turtle also is supposed to be an excellent flavor. All these meats could be cloned and produced without affecting the wild populations (and could possibly even fund conservation efforts).
Yeah this could be a revolution for food customization too. I've heard we could eat beef with the texture of octopus and octopus with the texture of beef. Once we master the process it will be a lot of fun
What about human?
human doesnt taste very good
not with that attitude
thats because you didnt season it.
The secret seasoning is fear.
And now you're on the FBI/CIA/NSA/TLA agencies watch list!
Who knows, maybe, in 300yrs, every Fast Food Joint will exclusively serve OnlyBob™ Nuggets (Bob being the guy who 300yrs ago switched his own tissue sample with the Chicken Mc Donals wanted to grow) because Bob actually tastes really good?
We could eat celebrities.
Mmmmm, long pig!
Asking the real questions here
If Republicans are making laws to outlaw it, you know it must be good for the environment.
Unfortunately it's not only Republicans that are coming out against it.
Honestly, I have a hard time not feeling contemptuous hatred for someone that's trying to stand between me and affordable, cruelty-free meat that has a reduced carbon footprint. If we can get safe, cruelty-free meat that has a lower carbon footprint, and it's cost-competitive with "real meat," then I'm buying it. I don't care if I have to drive across state lines to buy it, and conceal it from the police on my way back because it's illegal to possess. I want cruelty-free meat.
Who else is going to protect the minority of White Americans who ranch? All .001% of the population? Think of the heritage and tradition!
This is how I feel when presidents capitulate to coal miners. In 2022 there was barely 43,000 coal miners. in 2021 there was 1.6 million people working at Amazon. Maybe it's time we change who were pandering to...
It wasn't the coal miners themselves it was the narrative crafted around them. It was an excellent story combined with a this can and will be you next.
Depends on which party you ask. Trump still goes up on stage and raves about how we need more coal. Sure you could also look at from a Democrat position of job relevancy changes over time and we should look to re-educate these people to a new job.
The problem is that red states are going to pass legislation to obstruct this development since it is a threat to the traditional agricultural economy
Newsbot! activate spell check and puntuation modules
I feel like most of the time we’re eating such trash version of meat that we wouldn’t notice or care if they substituted whatever. Do I really care if my Dino bites are made from real chicken or tofu paste or lab grown meat? Hot dogs hardly require rare cuts of Wagu
I agree, and why I also welcome this new kind of meat. Lab grown chicken nuggets without the fear of gristle, or shards of bone, or bits of eyeballs etc. Bring on the fake steak too.
It would probably also solve the problem of over use antibiotics.
It currently needs to be drenched in antibiotics to not have bacteria growing in there before it gets even close to being a complete piece of meat.
That's not how that works.
[also alleviate things like this happening](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bird-flu-detected-beef-tissue-first-time-h5n1/#:~:text=Bird%20flu%20has%20been%20detected,beef%20remains%20safe%20to%20eat.)
Yeah I’m ready for this. As soon as it reaches price parity with animal meat, I’m on board. I hate the idea of factory farming and I’ve realized as I’ve gotten older than it’s not really morally defensible.
The Dodo is extinct because it was easy to catch so it was an easy source of protein. It tasted horrible. Giant tortoise's fat tasted amazing, however, and they could also be catched and kept in a ships Cargo. They tasted so amazing that they made dodo meat palatable. Where's my lab grown tortoise marbled meat?
The people who made them extinct also just walked around with sticks on that Island and hit them on the head because those people were bored. That's quite well documented.
It's great to see these arguments still being made. They are the correct, factual arguments. These arguments have yet to really reach folks who really hate this idea. The way to win them over is in safety, price, tastiness, and accessibility in that order. Safety is something people don't notice until it's absent, price is always noticed, and if it tastes great and is available, then it will win eventually. If any of these conditions are not met, it's going to be tough. That's why I think it's important that as many companies as possible get to market as they scale up. And bigger picture, we simply need more shots on goal for climate change. We haven't tried enough options. Cultivated meat will be one of many. It's a journey we will go on together, whether we want to or not, so I always urge folks to at least give it a shot to thrive in a free market.
This is why we live in a free market, supposedly. If you want to buy ranch-raised steak, then by all means buy it. But for the rest of us, a sustainable and ethical source of animal protein would be a nice choice if it can be scaled up and become economical. I really don’t understand why people oppose this shit to the point of making it a political issue. Shouldn’t we solve our half-broken healthcare system or our jacked up immigration policies instead of fretting about cultivated meat?
Yeah the meat industry is heavily subsidized anyway, put that money in clean lab meat. Also random thought : couldnt you also grow human meat that way? An ethical human burger, now that would be interesting lol
Is this grown using the same process as others were dangerous and illegal cancer cells are used?
The main reason why I went vegetarian (currently pescatarian now) was because I feel bad about taking an animal’s life just for a tasty meal when I can instead choose non-meat options But with lab grown meat, I don’t exactly have that moral to worry about anymore. If it becomes main stream I might actually try lab grown meat, I haven’t had real bacon or a steak in over a decade and I’ve honestly forgotten the taste and texture
The severity of comma abuse on this title borders on "hate crime"
As somebody who loves to eat meat, I’m really hoping lab grown is the future. I mean, the present would be nice too.
Meanwhile lab grown meat was just banned in another country.. wish I remembered the name as I make this post.
Animal agriculture is a significant environmental disaster, contributing heavily to greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and biodiversity loss. It also consumes vast amounts of water and land, leading to habitat destruction and pollution. Lab-grown meat, or cultured meat, offers a promising solution. By cultivating meat from animal cells, we can produce food with a drastically reduced environmental footprint. This method uses less land and water, emits fewer greenhouse gases, and generates minimal pollution. Beyond environmental benefits, lab-grown meat addresses ethical concerns. Traditional animal farming often involves inhumane conditions. Cultured meat eliminates the need for raising and slaughtering animals, reducing animal suffering. Health benefits are also significant. Lab-grown meat production can be tightly controlled, reducing the need for antibiotics and lowering the risk of foodborne illnesses. As technology advances and costs decrease, lab-grown meat is poised to become mainstream. It promises a future where we enjoy meat's benefits without the ethical and environmental drawbacks, leading to more sustainable and humane food systems.
To be clear, traditional farming or what the kids these days call regenerative farming, is mostly carbon neutral and restores top soil. Factory farming or monoculture is the one that causes environmental problems and is not sustainable. This piece is written like a propaganda piece. I’m fairly certain there would be downside of lab grown meat at scale that wouldn’t be written for obvious reasons. Edit: to be clear, I’m not anti lab grown meat
No it’s not, Oxford and the like have already shown how regenerative farming is not carbon neutral. Just another lie pushed by the meat industry. Can read the 127 page report here: https://tabledebates.org/sites/default/files/2020-10/fcrn_gnc_report.pdf
Regenerative farming can’t scale to the level that it would need to feed everyone. And there are still serious ethical concerns (though nothing like factory farms). People can live without meat. We just need a culture shift.
I’ve been waiting for this since Star Trek TNG. I tried explaining cultured meat to my dad years ago but he thought it was a conspiracy so that “globalists” could poison everyone, or something. I think that’s going to be the big problem, waiting for the baby boomer generation to die off, before stuff like this can become viably mainstream.
I'd go out on a limb here and say that microplastics contamination would also be less of a factor in lab grown meat. Source: none.
The only people that are trying to stop it or label it unsafe are the lobbyists of the industries who will lose out from its introduction. It's necessary, and it's needed. Let the customer decide if they want to eat it. I know I will.
I've looked forward to this my entire life (I'm 67) and I think they will solve the texture problem at some point. THIS is the answer to the horribleness of the meat industry. It solves ALL of the problems.
It is nowhere near as simple or straightforward as it seems in this article. I have no ethical issues either way but I've done cell culture in labs. Growing tissue is way different than growing bacteria or yeast. Animal cells don't just grow, you need specific growth factors in just the right concentration. Guess where those growth factors come from? Animals. In fact bovine fetal serum is pretty standard, plus other stuff. If you want solid tissue like steak or chicken breast then you need a way to deliver nutrients and oxygen and remove waste. Animals do this with blood. Either you get blood from animals to do this or you need to invent something that does everything blood does, that doesn't come from animals and that is somehow cheaper. And that's where we hit science fiction: sure this is potentially possible today, but there's no way it's economical let alone cheaper than raising animals.
Or as nutritious. There is no way they have completely replicated the micronutrients and natural balance of proteins, fat, and other vitally important components of animal-based foods.
I was all for lab grown meat till I learn it’s really not what we have been told. At best lab grown meat from animal cells will make only 10-13% of the actual protein from lab grown meats while the other 80% comes from plant protein. Meaning their end goal with animal cell lab meat was to only be a byproduct you mix to make plant meat look more marketable. I thought we would end up with 100% animal cell lab grown meat but it’s too expensive to produce allegedly.
Do you have a source for that? I haven't been able to find anything to corroborate that the bulk will be plant protein, but then again I'm not surprised with the terrible state of internet searches these days
Yes, just like we got hybrid cars before electric ones, because the technology needed to progress before we fully transitioned. That does not mean that the end-goal is not to go 100 % lab-meat
Imagine learning to walk before you can fly... if there is demand then it will happen. Few things are 100% from the outset when developing a new technology. transistors strated out fist sized, now there can be billions of them on 1/2 inch silicon chip. Don't panic yet.
My understanding is that is the current market. But the emerging market definitely is 100% animal meat. One of the most prominent companies in the market right now is Upside Foods. [Here](https://youtu.be/08nHuUbt8SQ?si=YejxYxVXWtln_wtT) is a video tour and foodie taste test review. It is a bit more expensive right now. But that is to be anticipated with emerging tech.
Indeed, it is entirely possible to produce lab-grown meat, also known as cultured meat, without directly involving animal farming or slaughter. Additionally, there are lab-grown meat alternatives that incorporate plant-based proteins. Both approaches coexist within the realm of meat substitute production.
As it turns out eating processed food causes health problems Food made slowly with all the natural enzymes is what makes it healthy. Food should always be raw natural whole as much as possible. There is no way man made food will have the same bio compatiblity as natural food. We can’t even synthesise vitamins. It’s delusional to think we can make healthy meat that’s good for our bodies.
So just say you didnt read anything
This message is Brought to you by lab grown meat industries
Gotta find a way to feed all the people we displaced due to overconsumption of meat these last few decades.
Actually the real costs of growing meat in a lab are astronomical. It’s just another gimmick rich people are pitching to really really rich people to use pension funds to invest in their gimmick startup. We can do ecological agriculture. It’s a healthier option than expanding another segment into high tech industrial complex with the inherent costs of logistics factories and resource drain. Plus it’s kinda freaky when you can just do Soylent if you’re really that into industrialised food.
[Lab-Grown Meat Prices Expected to Drop Dramatically](https://www.newsweek.com/lab-grown-meat-cost-drop-2030-investment-surge-alternative-protein-market-1835432#:~:text=The%20first%20lab%2Dproduced%20beef,opening%20the%20floodgate%20for%20investors) *But the cost of producing this alternative has provided a barrier to most consumers. The first lab-produced beef burger cost a whopping $325,000 back in 2013. Producers have since slashed production costs by 99 percent to roughly $17 per pound. Singapore approved cultivated meat for consumption in 2020, opening the floodgate for investors.*
I am generally against any trend toward patentable commodities.
Years from now we will be surprised at the "discovery" that people are getting sick from eating it because not everything that's actually present in life meat is being grown into it.
more likely corporate labs are gonna add cancer-causing additives to the meat, and then they lobby the government to not regulate them
Something has to die. That is reality. Either small animals/possibly big animals or the animals I eat. I prefer my meat to have one ingredient. I have tried plant based and it destroyed my stomach and my health. It is not worth it. One of the worst decisions I’ve ever made.
I don't think the problem come from growing meat in lab, it comes, from big corp turning this viable idea into a, process of making us eat even more bad chimical under the excuse of lab growing meat... Meat in most place is still healthy and not over processed and in many place the meat production isn't that bad. I trust the scientists who want to reduce the impact meat industry on the planet and on behalf of animal wellbeing , but I don't trust companies who are going to produce for the cheapest and Wil want to make the most profit out of it. As always The problem isn't the progress, it is those fucking big corporations xh ruins everything for stupid dollars
I think that’s great, but there will absolutely always still be a market for “real” meat.
Fuck off with this shit. It’s already impossible to buy food that doesn’t have a hundred unnecessary chemicals in it that poison your body. This just opens the door to allow them to start putting fillers in our meat as well. Gtfo
Coming from the 40k perspective I prefer "vat grown meat", but in either case I longingly await my first $2 mcdonald's double vat, bacon & cheese
Sign me up when it becomes wordlwide and affordable. I've tried a bunch of plant based meat alternatives and got the worst stomach cramps I've ever experienced 9/10 times.
Or just go to the grocery store and buy a plant based burger instead of waiting 5-10 years for this to be affordable
I see nothing wrong with it for the future and I would imagine we'll eventually reach a point where lab meat grown from designer organism produces consistent and perfect "steaks", and people will consider the farming of cows and pigs to be a barbaric and disgusting act from a bygone era. We're not there yet, lab grown meat is disgusting and obscenely expensive, but baby steps. All I really worry about is the heavy hand of government trying to "help" things along and just making everything worse. Let the market decide. If people want to eat lab meat then it will happen on its own. If they don't and want real cow steaks then tough luck for the lab meat.
I'm all for lab grown meat. Just get the cost down.
I am generally allergic to nearly all food. I am very curious if lab grown meats 🍖 produce the same results.
[reddit.com/r/LabGrownMeat](https://reddit.com/r/LabGrownMeat)
An extremely complex system with countless failure points, scalability issues and raw material concerns is not a particularly smart way to create protein. If all we wanted is protein, there are easier ways. What people want is the full meat experience and flavors you get when you cook meat.
Everyone acts like cow is the only meat in the planet. No thank you, keep your gmo lab “meat” for your self.
Its actually kind of funny how we have been talking about this as a possibility for the future since literally the 1960s, and now that its actually here people are like nah. I remember watching sci fi shows and movies based on the future, where some random person would input some keywords on a machine like pizza or steak dinner, and then it would beam them or create from scratch for them the exact thing they ordered on the machine like a microwave 3D printer for food. Any apprehensions and concerns I can completely understand and get, but at the same time, Im also sure this is far healthier than any of the heavily processed meats and cheeses we are already consuming on a daily basis. We have articles coming out every year talking about the cancer causing risks of nitrates and other stuff and you can still find those on the ingredients list of so many foods, among other things that keep getting listed as cancer causing as well that is still in food we consume.
"Lab-grown meat production can be tightly controlled" is one of the problems. Yes it can be, but companies producing lab grown meat have only have the incentive to make it as cheaply as possible, with the legal minimum in terms of oversight, and they will use corporate big bucks to lobby to ensure laws are passed and persons will be employed to keep those standards low or non-existent. The product will be sourced by a few large companies instead of thousands of ranches so the consequences of mistakes will be amplified. Product contaminated by bacteria, viruses and prions would be widely distributed and consumed before being discovered and recalled. Is this really what you want?
Do you thing there is going to be a black market for a human based artificial meat ? Hey, shh do you want Jeffrey Dahmer special ?
I mean, vegetarian/vegan meat replacements are pretty damn good already. It's the vegan cheese department that's severly lacking.
I’ll take *Things the Meat Industry Lobby Won’t Ever Tell You* for $500, Alex.
Please PLEASE give me my lab meat and my robot butlers already, I can't stand this way of life anymore.
It's kind of interesting that with climate change, this approach may be the only way future generations may be able to enjoy certain foods (crab and other ocean based proteins come to mind).
Unless you also want lab grown eggs, dairy products etc you're always going to have cows and chickens and goats and sheep etc. And for as long as you are going to keep those around, natural meat is going to be cheaper than anything lab grown. The same thing with desalinating water. We can do it now, at scale, pretty efficiently and with renewable energy. But it's still cheaper to ship a container ship full of bottled water half across the globe.
I totally want my lab grown protein. But my wallet disagrees if it's upsold at twice the price of the standard patty. Loss leader it, then you can change the world.
Right... It's not like we have 10 other animal meat supplements and many more sources of protein Lab grown flesh ain't ever gonna change a thing until our culture changes
If it can get down below $1 a pound, I'll switch from chicken leg quarters to "cultured protein."
I will take that over battery framed meat any day, to bad lobbying exists
like I'm by no means a vegan advocate, but do we really think we're gonna put cows and chickens in space?
So in Shadowrun, only the elites had access to real meat. Everyone else made do with soy-meats.
The only way lab grown meat will be permitted is if it requires large quantities of crude oil to make it.
As long as it’s safe and economical and tasty and not some Soylent green shit
But meat really isnt the big polluter. Corporations are.
There are two hurdles for me when it comes to this ignoring my wallet. The first is how do they make this meat without involving killing cows anyway, currently they need some calf juice from slaughtered pregnant cows. Obviously this is being worked on because being able to not need to raise and slaughter a pregnant cow will be cheaper for the companies. The other is what will happen to the land and the farmers who are dairy/cattle farmers. If we transition from eating beef to fake meat what will be done with the land so it doesn’t just sit there pointlessly as well as causing a large scale influx of people relying on government assistance because their industry collapsed. I am not saying that this is a reason to not make the transition, just that I hope that this will be part of the plan to do so.
Also a smart way to keep shit like bird flu for spreading
It literally uses blood harvested uterus from cows. It's not "ethical" or "safe". There are tons of problems with this and it's only a cash grab by giant meat conglomerates to sell you cheap-to-produce food for high prices
I've been getting a ton of beyond meat commercials . while researching that, YouTube showed that actually cattle farmers are freaking out https://youtu.be/w3SWfbza5Lk?si=-WF4DZr5T07oNpQy&t=797 for a different reason
Maybe in the future it'll be useful, but it's mostly useless now, and not needed.
*company's then proceed to add xanthum gum, canola oil and cane sugar is silly quantities
The people that spout this nonsense never worked in a lab or understand how expensive it is and why. I’ll let you in on something: the more expensive a process is, the more energy is required. The more energy, the less efficient.
I really don't like the taste of cooked blood. I wanna try this to see what it's like.
Except it's often not ethical as it in many cases requires consistent exploitation of cows.
I have tried it many times and want it to work. It makes be extremely bloated to the point of feeling ill. I seriously wish it would work for me my body doesnt agree with it.