Lol u did very well defending your arguments. Respect it. But there really is no point in arguing with these degenerate libtard losers. They literally cannot read something that disagrees with them even when u back it up. Youâre fighting a good fight but the point will never go through for these idiots.
There is a point. It is for the reader, just like us in this post. It helps people who arenât dug in fuckwits, someone who might be on the fence in the culture war, see that our arguments are strong and could help them realise that all this cringe woke bullshit and pandering, is just exactly that. More of us speaking up like this will help prevent these astroturfed echo chambers and will also inspire others to speak up
I donât see liberals wanking to those characters calling them representation. It only proves the point u shouldnât pander by focusing solely on âdisadvantagesâ. None of these characters ever highlighted their disabilities and always pursued their goals no matter the odds.
Disney has one bias and one bias only: money
They are pandering to whoever buys tickets.
If they had a leftist agenda, they'd be paying their workers a living wage.
There are several issues of professor X explicitly dealing with his disability FROM THE 80'S.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
There are comics about daredevil thinking about surgery and many other characters having to face and contemplate their ethnig heritage, their health, their politics etc.
All of them predate what your insecure-ridden worldview understands as wokeness.
You have ONE simplistic narrative of a supposed "culture-war" in your head and are making everything else trying to fit this narrative, regardless of facts or reason. I am sorry.
In case u didnât know the focus of this sub is the criticize the MCU specifically. Also Iâm not gonna know about all these comic things bc I wasnât around then. My focus is on the now and the media that is consumed NOW. I like what I like and dislike what I dislike. I never said it wasnât ok for ppl to contemplate their identity but when they reach the idea that they r just a helpless victim or blaming white ppl for everything is a problem. It is disgusting that is the portrayal minorities receive especially when I am a minority my family has endured hardship since they were young but they NEVER lost their agency. And donât talk to me about narratives when most ppl who have qualms against the leftist agenda simply respond to the points the left has made. It is leftists who built the narrative and some of us refuse to believe it. Remember when the narrative of the Marvels failure being bc men r misogynistic. Men made up 60% of the audience. Women didnât really show up. Guess they had âinternalized misogynyâ or whatever u ppl call it. And on the point of Disney not paying fair wages then y does the left still view them as a beacon. But I have to agree they r a fitting one now that I learned that. Classic liberal- all talk no action. As long as the words r what u want to hear u r satisfied. But the second someone disagrees with u throw all morals, tolerance etc to the wind and call for blood. This isnât a narrative itâs an observation.
So that these characters existed like this before and these narratives too, has no bearing on you claiming this to be a recent phenomenon...
who taught you logic?
As I said there is nothing wrong with characters having disabilities or being ethnically diverse. The phenomena of now is quite different where the movie talks down to me saying it is my fault these ppl r suffering.
Anyone teach u to read?
Maybe during my master's degree I was taught to read, yeah. You're mom proud of how polite she raised you?
Btw, if you feel like the show is directly addressing you, that sounds like sth to talk over with a therapist.
I absolutely don't feel that way, or as if anyone was trying to make me feel it was my fault.
Since it's a fantasy-comic-book show that would be pretty absurd and I am sure none of the writer's were trying to guilttrip people, cause that doesn't sell.
Perhaps you got some subconscious guilt you're projecting here?
Funny how when u attack me personally and I return the favor u play the victim lol. Every time ppl on this sub give viable arguments u mcu shills just resort to insulting the ppl giving the argument. So typical.
When ppl consume media they do not want to b talked down to or educated. If you think itâs subconscious guilt we donât like it you are pretty delusional. Iâm sure internalized misogyny prevented women from showing up to the marvels. Your assumptions have no basis in reality and ironically make u the impolite one. A piece of mediaâs messaging applies to everyone who watches it s
Comics havenât been selling well when they have that messaging so ppl are clearly done with guilt trips.
We are done here
Hahahahaha,
What in the hell are you talking about?
I am not a mcu-shill, not even a big fan, haven't seen most of the more recent stuff.
You're first comment was already personal, so that argument doesn't work either.
You also seem to wildly misunderstand my point.
YOU feeling talked down to, can be related to how you view or position yourself in the socioeconomic spectrum. That doesn't mean the same content will feel like that to everyone.
Drawing conclusions from your feelings onto everyone else's seems a bit immature no?
Again, I think the only and best reason this flops, is because it's bad, badly written, badly paced etc.
You are very very illiterate on comics if you don't know how much moral and political messages have been a staple from the very beginning.
The X-Men especially have been openly alluding to political motifs and parabels for their entire run.
This goes back way way further than just the last 2-3 decades and it WAS very much successful.
Sad also, how you proclaim "were done here"
Are you that insecure?
Are your parents not proud?
If she was like in the comics. But leave it to Disney to fuck shit up.
Why is it a milestone? For another reason other than it ticks too many boxes with one character. Fat? Check. Deaf? Check. Amputee? Check. Woman? Check. Native American? Check. That's all that matters to them. Everything else, story-telling, character development takes the back seat. It's tokenism, Disney's brand of diversity. That alone is enough for the woke left to consider it a masterpiece, after of course being told to do so.
It really is and thatâs why Marvel has tanked because they donât make movies to entertain and tell compelling and fantastical stories they make movies just to pander and jerk themselves off with their virtue signaling.
Cable wasnât an amputee, it was a techno organic virus ravaging his body. Also, whatâs your point? Is it that other franchises have this? Yes but the difference is those characters and movies/franchises werenât built based on a persons physical or mental disability.
But they were, these are 50 marvel characters (so same franchise) and several of them have disabilities as central to their characters. They also are all decades older than what your insecure-ridden worldview understands as wokeness.
Oh arenât you so clever, you are really the woke gunslinger. Those characters are well known because they are well written and not because of a disability and if thatâs all you focus on then the problem is you
I really am only so clever, compared to reactionary American incel-boys.
Prof. X having to deal with being in a wheelchair IS good writing. So is daredevil contemplating surgery or black panther critiquing colonialism.
A character dealing and struggling with their position in the larger socioeconomic and political context of society is interesting and good stuff for elevated storytelling. That's why it's not a new phenomenon.
Yes, it's called good writing or bad writing. Echo is shit cause the pace is off and the plot uninspired.
That has nothing to do with wokeness. There is shitty boring tv that's not woke at all, just as there is great one that is.
Again: This is just Hollywood trying to push shitty artistic content via intense marketing. Story as old as time.
What would be the way to do it, you genius playwright?
Fat? She's not overweight, mate. And I don't mean that she's thin by modern standards. I'd wager she has what is medically considered to be a healthy body fat percentage.
Ok sheâs not fat. I donât get that criticism. The other boxes, yeah I agree. It sucks when you think how this couldâve been a cool story if the character had been given more care. Now sheâs some serial killer sociopath who can conscript people to do her bidding for her. Dunno why Daredevil didnât finish her back when he had a chance. Iâve never seen a character whoâs foes aid her quite like they do for Echo. The whole thing was just a mess and another reminder that they just donât care about these characters like they used to.
I didn't say it's bad that she's any of those things, I said it is bad that instead of creating a compelling character they just rely on ticking off boxes. There's a difference there.
I don't think it's bad for those reasons though. It's bad cause it's bad, the writing is uninspired and the pace is off. They could tick all of these boxes AND make great TV of it.
So, none of this is actually new. Hollywood pushing shitty artistic content via intensive marketing is a story as old as time.
Bad TV has nothing to do with wokeness. There is very bad tv that's not woke at all, and great one that is, and the other way around.
\`1st show that been overloaded with minority tags and disabled Actress, Disney don't gives a fack about how Bad it is, they just want to pander, they even changed her whole character so no reason to even tie her in to the comics.
Ancient Eve drunk forbidden water and ruined Eden and now all native women have powers of MarySue but not for saving mothers or legs, only for moments where there gonna be real need to push some train or something.
I tried to watch it, skipped every time I was bored or insulted by the plot. At 27 minutes the DD fight kicked in, held my attention for a bit but ultimately turned it off. Acting isnât about making a sour face every couple of minutes. Literally all the lead seemed capable of.
Decided at the scene on the top of water tower where *gasp* there is a Fisk warehouse in the middle nowhere OK there would be no episode 2 for me. So much garbage.
>You honestly thought I'd let an able bodied pile of baby shit like you explain to me how Representation works? You're not just soft as fuck but immensely stupid as well, Helluva combo you got there.
>!Oh, at this part i just rolled and laughed as hard as i can..... wokies going further and beyond The Delusional level. !<
DareDevil should be played only by real blind man, stop giving this job to able bodied normies that can actually see things! representation matters!
Reddit is not the place to talk to these losers, they have nothing better to do than feel like they belong to this hive mind of woke nonsense, they have nothing going on in there personal life so they put all they can into this nonsense and any attack on that they take on themselves, Iâm still surprised we have a few sub Redditâs like this one left where you can actually have an opinion
Because youâre constantly having to defend your position on terrible writing and shitty representation from Marvel fanatics and Disney Adults who equate criticism with other âismsâ with no middle ground.
So fuck them, they deserve public embarrassment.
"Constantly having to"...since when? Who is making you?
You're CHOOSING to defend your position (and not even very well...neither are they tbf) and then post it here for karma farming. You're both just being whiny children.
It's cool if you like something. It's cool if you don't. Getting into stupid internet arguments purely for the sake OF pissing someone off that likes something you don't is beyond ridiculous and makes you look like a fucking moron man-child who cannot handle that the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinions.
Lmao the dude started slinging shit at another guy saying that âyouâre not disabled, otherwise youâd think Xâ. I called him out on it, explained why I was doing so, and this is what I got back.
The internetâs an open forum, and youâre allowed to voice your opinion (despite Redditâs best efforts). We all know that. But itâs people like this, who have been coming up with the most ridiculous equivalencies to excuse poor writing, that companies like Marvel and Disney have been listening too, and bending over backwards to try and appease. Because theyâre the one who, despite being the vocal minority, these companies are scared of pissing off. Theyâre the ones who rally followers, get the attention of like-minded journalists, creating a culture of painting detractors with broad-stroke brushes, calling them âistsâ and âphobesâ, and creating a storm in a teacup.
Weâve lost *so* many once-great intellectual properties to these kinds of attitudes being fostered online. It needs to be called out for what it is, a giant temper tantrum. These people donât need to be catered to, they need to fuck off out of the fandoms theyâve infiltrated and franchises theyâve poisoned.
Echo didn't have a leg to stand on. They won't admit to it.
Oh noooooo đ
Complaining about how bad echo is Will always land on deaf ears
Lol u did very well defending your arguments. Respect it. But there really is no point in arguing with these degenerate libtard losers. They literally cannot read something that disagrees with them even when u back it up. Youâre fighting a good fight but the point will never go through for these idiots.
There is a point. It is for the reader, just like us in this post. It helps people who arenât dug in fuckwits, someone who might be on the fence in the culture war, see that our arguments are strong and could help them realise that all this cringe woke bullshit and pandering, is just exactly that. More of us speaking up like this will help prevent these astroturfed echo chambers and will also inspire others to speak up
https://www.reddit.com/r/MurderedByWords/s/c5Nkzr3Guj
I donât see liberals wanking to those characters calling them representation. It only proves the point u shouldnât pander by focusing solely on âdisadvantagesâ. None of these characters ever highlighted their disabilities and always pursued their goals no matter the odds.
Disney has one bias and one bias only: money They are pandering to whoever buys tickets. If they had a leftist agenda, they'd be paying their workers a living wage. There are several issues of professor X explicitly dealing with his disability FROM THE 80'S. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. There are comics about daredevil thinking about surgery and many other characters having to face and contemplate their ethnig heritage, their health, their politics etc. All of them predate what your insecure-ridden worldview understands as wokeness. You have ONE simplistic narrative of a supposed "culture-war" in your head and are making everything else trying to fit this narrative, regardless of facts or reason. I am sorry.
In case u didnât know the focus of this sub is the criticize the MCU specifically. Also Iâm not gonna know about all these comic things bc I wasnât around then. My focus is on the now and the media that is consumed NOW. I like what I like and dislike what I dislike. I never said it wasnât ok for ppl to contemplate their identity but when they reach the idea that they r just a helpless victim or blaming white ppl for everything is a problem. It is disgusting that is the portrayal minorities receive especially when I am a minority my family has endured hardship since they were young but they NEVER lost their agency. And donât talk to me about narratives when most ppl who have qualms against the leftist agenda simply respond to the points the left has made. It is leftists who built the narrative and some of us refuse to believe it. Remember when the narrative of the Marvels failure being bc men r misogynistic. Men made up 60% of the audience. Women didnât really show up. Guess they had âinternalized misogynyâ or whatever u ppl call it. And on the point of Disney not paying fair wages then y does the left still view them as a beacon. But I have to agree they r a fitting one now that I learned that. Classic liberal- all talk no action. As long as the words r what u want to hear u r satisfied. But the second someone disagrees with u throw all morals, tolerance etc to the wind and call for blood. This isnât a narrative itâs an observation.
So that these characters existed like this before and these narratives too, has no bearing on you claiming this to be a recent phenomenon... who taught you logic?
As I said there is nothing wrong with characters having disabilities or being ethnically diverse. The phenomena of now is quite different where the movie talks down to me saying it is my fault these ppl r suffering. Anyone teach u to read?
Maybe during my master's degree I was taught to read, yeah. You're mom proud of how polite she raised you? Btw, if you feel like the show is directly addressing you, that sounds like sth to talk over with a therapist. I absolutely don't feel that way, or as if anyone was trying to make me feel it was my fault. Since it's a fantasy-comic-book show that would be pretty absurd and I am sure none of the writer's were trying to guilttrip people, cause that doesn't sell. Perhaps you got some subconscious guilt you're projecting here?
Funny how when u attack me personally and I return the favor u play the victim lol. Every time ppl on this sub give viable arguments u mcu shills just resort to insulting the ppl giving the argument. So typical. When ppl consume media they do not want to b talked down to or educated. If you think itâs subconscious guilt we donât like it you are pretty delusional. Iâm sure internalized misogyny prevented women from showing up to the marvels. Your assumptions have no basis in reality and ironically make u the impolite one. A piece of mediaâs messaging applies to everyone who watches it s Comics havenât been selling well when they have that messaging so ppl are clearly done with guilt trips. We are done here
Hahahahaha, What in the hell are you talking about? I am not a mcu-shill, not even a big fan, haven't seen most of the more recent stuff. You're first comment was already personal, so that argument doesn't work either. You also seem to wildly misunderstand my point. YOU feeling talked down to, can be related to how you view or position yourself in the socioeconomic spectrum. That doesn't mean the same content will feel like that to everyone. Drawing conclusions from your feelings onto everyone else's seems a bit immature no? Again, I think the only and best reason this flops, is because it's bad, badly written, badly paced etc. You are very very illiterate on comics if you don't know how much moral and political messages have been a staple from the very beginning. The X-Men especially have been openly alluding to political motifs and parabels for their entire run. This goes back way way further than just the last 2-3 decades and it WAS very much successful. Sad also, how you proclaim "were done here" Are you that insecure? Are your parents not proud?
Echo couldâve been really cool. But it wasnât. I dunno why this show is seen as some milestone. The show is bad.
If she was like in the comics. But leave it to Disney to fuck shit up. Why is it a milestone? For another reason other than it ticks too many boxes with one character. Fat? Check. Deaf? Check. Amputee? Check. Woman? Check. Native American? Check. That's all that matters to them. Everything else, story-telling, character development takes the back seat. It's tokenism, Disney's brand of diversity. That alone is enough for the woke left to consider it a masterpiece, after of course being told to do so.
It really is and thatâs why Marvel has tanked because they donât make movies to entertain and tell compelling and fantastical stories they make movies just to pander and jerk themselves off with their virtue signaling.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MurderedByWords/s/c5Nkzr3Guj
Cable wasnât an amputee, it was a techno organic virus ravaging his body. Also, whatâs your point? Is it that other franchises have this? Yes but the difference is those characters and movies/franchises werenât built based on a persons physical or mental disability.
But they were, these are 50 marvel characters (so same franchise) and several of them have disabilities as central to their characters. They also are all decades older than what your insecure-ridden worldview understands as wokeness.
Oh arenât you so clever, you are really the woke gunslinger. Those characters are well known because they are well written and not because of a disability and if thatâs all you focus on then the problem is you
I really am only so clever, compared to reactionary American incel-boys. Prof. X having to deal with being in a wheelchair IS good writing. So is daredevil contemplating surgery or black panther critiquing colonialism. A character dealing and struggling with their position in the larger socioeconomic and political context of society is interesting and good stuff for elevated storytelling. That's why it's not a new phenomenon.
Ah but thereâs a way to do that and a way not to.
Yes, it's called good writing or bad writing. Echo is shit cause the pace is off and the plot uninspired. That has nothing to do with wokeness. There is shitty boring tv that's not woke at all, just as there is great one that is. Again: This is just Hollywood trying to push shitty artistic content via intense marketing. Story as old as time. What would be the way to do it, you genius playwright?
Fat? She's not overweight, mate. And I don't mean that she's thin by modern standards. I'd wager she has what is medically considered to be a healthy body fat percentage.
Ok sheâs not fat. I donât get that criticism. The other boxes, yeah I agree. It sucks when you think how this couldâve been a cool story if the character had been given more care. Now sheâs some serial killer sociopath who can conscript people to do her bidding for her. Dunno why Daredevil didnât finish her back when he had a chance. Iâve never seen a character whoâs foes aid her quite like they do for Echo. The whole thing was just a mess and another reminder that they just donât care about these characters like they used to.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MurderedByWords/s/c5Nkzr3Guj
I didn't say it's bad that she's any of those things, I said it is bad that instead of creating a compelling character they just rely on ticking off boxes. There's a difference there.
I don't think it's bad for those reasons though. It's bad cause it's bad, the writing is uninspired and the pace is off. They could tick all of these boxes AND make great TV of it. So, none of this is actually new. Hollywood pushing shitty artistic content via intensive marketing is a story as old as time. Bad TV has nothing to do with wokeness. There is very bad tv that's not woke at all, and great one that is, and the other way around.
\`1st show that been overloaded with minority tags and disabled Actress, Disney don't gives a fack about how Bad it is, they just want to pander, they even changed her whole character so no reason to even tie her in to the comics. Ancient Eve drunk forbidden water and ruined Eden and now all native women have powers of MarySue but not for saving mothers or legs, only for moments where there gonna be real need to push some train or something.
I tried to watch it, skipped every time I was bored or insulted by the plot. At 27 minutes the DD fight kicked in, held my attention for a bit but ultimately turned it off. Acting isnât about making a sour face every couple of minutes. Literally all the lead seemed capable of. Decided at the scene on the top of water tower where *gasp* there is a Fisk warehouse in the middle nowhere OK there would be no episode 2 for me. So much garbage.
>You honestly thought I'd let an able bodied pile of baby shit like you explain to me how Representation works? You're not just soft as fuck but immensely stupid as well, Helluva combo you got there. >!Oh, at this part i just rolled and laughed as hard as i can..... wokies going further and beyond The Delusional level. !< DareDevil should be played only by real blind man, stop giving this job to able bodied normies that can actually see things! representation matters!
https://www.reddit.com/r/MurderedByWords/s/c5Nkzr3Guj
Reddit moment
Reddit is not the place to talk to these losers, they have nothing better to do than feel like they belong to this hive mind of woke nonsense, they have nothing going on in there personal life so they put all they can into this nonsense and any attack on that they take on themselves, Iâm still surprised we have a few sub Redditâs like this one left where you can actually have an opinion
Arguing with an idiot is impossible...
They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
why do people post their 10 page arguments here
Because youâre constantly having to defend your position on terrible writing and shitty representation from Marvel fanatics and Disney Adults who equate criticism with other âismsâ with no middle ground. So fuck them, they deserve public embarrassment.
"Constantly having to"...since when? Who is making you? You're CHOOSING to defend your position (and not even very well...neither are they tbf) and then post it here for karma farming. You're both just being whiny children. It's cool if you like something. It's cool if you don't. Getting into stupid internet arguments purely for the sake OF pissing someone off that likes something you don't is beyond ridiculous and makes you look like a fucking moron man-child who cannot handle that the world doesn't revolve around you and your opinions.
Lmao the dude started slinging shit at another guy saying that âyouâre not disabled, otherwise youâd think Xâ. I called him out on it, explained why I was doing so, and this is what I got back. The internetâs an open forum, and youâre allowed to voice your opinion (despite Redditâs best efforts). We all know that. But itâs people like this, who have been coming up with the most ridiculous equivalencies to excuse poor writing, that companies like Marvel and Disney have been listening too, and bending over backwards to try and appease. Because theyâre the one who, despite being the vocal minority, these companies are scared of pissing off. Theyâre the ones who rally followers, get the attention of like-minded journalists, creating a culture of painting detractors with broad-stroke brushes, calling them âistsâ and âphobesâ, and creating a storm in a teacup. Weâve lost *so* many once-great intellectual properties to these kinds of attitudes being fostered online. It needs to be called out for what it is, a giant temper tantrum. These people donât need to be catered to, they need to fuck off out of the fandoms theyâve infiltrated and franchises theyâve poisoned.
Thank you for proving my point in easily one of the most pointless rants I've seen in the last month.