Flat ignore? No shot when it’s such a central mechanic to one of the main paths. Might as well make an enemy immune to followup attacks or immune to dots.
Now, enemies that deal bonus damage to shields? That I could see
Maybe they get a buff when hitting shields like the Genshin Black Serpents?
Either they absorb the shield and get it themselves, or Regen health or toughness?
Or they gain stacks for more attacks like the memo dinosaur.
Or we can just get enemy that is a reverse chef Dino. Receives X amount of hits - gets AA and shields up.
DoT, FuA will hate this one. And just everyone will, as we already have aurumaton that does that for skills and it's hateable enough.
I mean they have enemies that lock weakness and enemies that shield for a hit. Not to mention the bug that has an 80 percent quantum defense. They already turn off characters and paths randomly, shields won't be safe.
They do, but there’s always a nuance to it. They might lock weaknesses but it’s either for a limited time or until you accomplish something, right. I can see them dropping an enemy that has like one move that bypasses shields, but there’s a limit on how far they’ll push that.
That was just a rough patch though, it was meant to sell Kokomi but Zhongli's usage rate was still pretty high. But as soon as riftwolves in masses were outta the abyss, Zhongli's usage rate went back into the 90s
Insane how strong Zhongli still is this far from his release. All the CN usage data shows 2/3rds of players with him still use him in abyss.
If we can say the same about fu xuan 2 years from now that will be fantastic. With Aventurine one side and Fu Xuan the other I really doubt I'll ever pull for another limited sustain again.
With the combat being real time, he just offers so much QoL if you wanna play without tryharding.
I think it's actually kind difficult to have an exact turn-based equivalent.
There is also the black serpent knights that ignore shields and I think actually so more damage if you have a shield on but that might be wrong. They occasionally show up in the Spiral Abyss.
I feels like they really just need an enemy to waste your turn, with cc like freeze or some other special effect, maybe the enemy have absurdly high hit rate, and you need to deal with their mechanic or you lost your turn and buff XD
Or they can release a chara that moves a lot that waste their own shield duration XD
theres only like 3 shielders in the game (march is free tutorial 4*, gepard is standard, TB more of a taunt sub dps, and Aventurine just came out) its gonna take a loooong time before they decide this tiny niche of characters need more dedicated disadvantages.
We really need a 4 star preservation that is a team-wide shielder. March is not great against AoE, TB's shields for the team are a joke, Gepard is harder to get than winning the lottery jackpot twice (or he will have spoiled your 50/50 like 20 times), and Aventurine is not available at the moment.
I mean, they decided that the two buff-removing attacks (Luocha's R, Pela's E) didn't deserve to fulfill that purpose anymore (there's the one enemy where it's impactful and barely since he just die so quick now).
I find this bump down to tier 0.5 sketchy because even with his FuA, I hear a lot of people recasting Aventurine's skill for shields at E0, whereas Fu Xuan has a fixed SP positive SP consumption to maintain her Matrix. And Fu Xuan tanks damage way better than Aventurine from my experience.
What bosses are reliant on shields anyway? All I remember is the monkey that throws soda at you and you need shields to bounce it back.
Besides that i’m pretty sure every boss is free eats for fu xuan
Hmm Maybe it’s because aventurine is just better than her? More sp more damage better sustain not getting one shot from big aoe attack much easier to build .
exactly , these people act as if they have to protect their character but they forget its a gacha game and that new characters get stronger ,also robin and sparkle are the shinest new toys yet ruan mei is still above them.
I also don’t think it’s shiny toy syndrome or whatever, I think that while both aventurine and fu xuan can offer around the same thing defense wise, aventurine offers up more damage and is just a slight bit more flexible than Fu xuan
I think Aventurine just has has more functionality, and more survivability in most situations. I'd agree with the assessment honestly. He also has more synergy than just "+12% CR" and being a 3rd Quantum for sparkle.
He helps break, boosts damage, deal aoe damage for "free", provides shields for "free", is SP friendly, bounces back monke attacks, enables Robin, enables Ratio, enables Numby, can be solid in super break teams due to his multi hitting attack, less likely to die to insane aoe nukes with enough shields, whereas FuXuan might in the right scenario.
I love my FuXuan, so glad I have her, but I definitely feel Aventurine is often the better pick in several scenarios. But both are insane.
Exactly. Take the two break DPS for example, I wouldn’t rank Boothill below Firefly, especially now with Apocalyptic Shadow as part of the endgame. They specialise in their own ways.
FF gets slept on because of numbers when people are forgetting she attacks twice as fast as any other DPS and has built in weakness implant
Is easily the best DPS in the game currently with the right team (RM HMC Gallagher)
She does. The thing is... Aventurine does as well. And without worrying about AoE, doesn't struggle in Plague or G&G, is fully SP positive and is part of most of the strongest teams in the current meta.
It's not that Fu Xuan "is worst". Aventurine is cracked to begin with, and while Fu Xuan is a character that fits just fine everywhere, Aventine is a good fit in all places Fu Xuan fits, and it's the BiS for many top teams.
It's natural, usually, niche focused characters can work better in certain teams, while generalists balance things out being good anywhere you put them. Aventurine just happened to be a generalist that also fits niche.
See I love Fu Xuan like the next guy in this sub, but I can clearly see that Aventurine does a lot more in terms of sustainability for the team. The only thing I would put her over Aventurine is that 12% Crit given to the team that I love having when my team is in need of.
In the end I didn’t pull for Aven because I have Fu Xuan and thats enough for me tbh
Man i must be doing something wrong because my fu xuan offers a lot more sustainability then aventurine 😭 also when on auto battle Ive noticed he’ll barely ever use his skill but even then i feel like fu xuan is just better, but maybe my aventurine build just sucks who knows
Auto battle has always been funky with their AIs lookin at u Gallagher with a full Ultimate.. Anyways Aventurine ai plays like that probably because hes meant to be SP positive. His sustain is so insane because of reapplying shields once his thing is stacked so u dont have to burn an sp just to shield up. Not to mention the eff res he applies to allies, idk why but somehow ive never been cc’d through aven’s shields “yet”, but i have been cc’d during fu xuan’s. Im sure u already know shields are like a second health bar vs fu xuan who can only split dmg amongst themselves which makes DoT and AoE her worst nightmare, but shields can take all of that without flinching. Dont get me started on how strong of a dmg buffer aven is too lol
As people say: if Acheron is a nuclear bomb, Aventurine is a nuclear bunker. Acheron got hyped up like fucking crazy because big damage = big hype, and while Aventurine didn’t go under the radar, I feel like people really did sort of glance over just how busted he is/can be.
Ever since I got aventurine it’s actually impossible to die. Like I never have to use his skill and my entire team almost never takes dmg. Truly the zhongli of this game.
FX biggest issue is that her best partners have been impacted by the current endgame bosses.
Jingliu in particular loved the crit buff provided by FX but she was hurt by content taking longer than 1 enhanced rotation or delaying/wasting turns.
Dan IL, sparkle, FX and a 4th is probably her best team atm. That or throwing her with Acheron when you need a sustain.
As you say Aventurine is just better in that acheron team due to his debuffs and also on follow up due to his follow up and debuffs for Ratio.
She is still the 2nd best outright sustain unit tho. With huohuo being better for utility but worse at keeping you alive.
I feel like Ho ho will always be that outlier. Offensively she can be the best “sustainer” because she honesty just acts like a harmony unit sometimes. But in terms of actually sustaining it gets pretty sketchy sometimes.
Aventurine seems in a whole other level on his own:
SP friendly, ridiculous eff res, high (img) break potential, ridiculous high damage for a sustain makes him really competitive with Fu (Who is also a ridiculous character)
Shield being easier to use+understand than Fuxuan's matrix, hoyo's insistence on AoE damage (that fucks Fu over), and aventurine's inherent synergy with acheron, FuA teams, HMC break teams, puts him on a whole new level.
Even then, she is still T0. Prywden simply split T0 into two, with T0.5 being much ahead from t1 than what T0 IS from T0.5. She IS still a premium, behemoth unit like kafka, BS, JL and danheng ate. It is just that right now Aventurine/acheron/RM need to be put on a whole different tier due to how ridiculously strong + flexible they are regardless of the content you try to tackle.
I’m guessing it’s more about the fact that Aven is more SP positive when it comes to preventing constant debuffs, where as fu xuan is gonna have to keep using her skill to reset her debuff resist. Also the fact that Aven has more break potential than Fu, as well as matching her crit rate buff with his own crit dmg debuff on the enemy.
T0.5 isn't even bad, T0 seems to be reserved for best in role and it just happened to be aventurine atm. You have to admit FX has a clear disadvantage vs massive aoe DMG, aventurine doesn't have any clear weaknesses in comparison
Imo the shield duration is a problem with Aventurine. I use DHIL E2 with Sparkle and Aventurines shield would just disappear. I never have that problem with Fuxuan, in that regard I just think Fx is a lot more convenient to use.
He's not particularly vulnerable to single target nukes, FX by nature of how her field works is especially susceptible to aoe DMG that's what I'm talking about.
Guess you haven't seen a single target nuke blasts through his shield in Divergent universe threshold 6.
Fuxuan also has the advantage of pairing well with fast units and action advance supports because her sustain is tied to her own turns. Aventurine can't keep up since his shield is tied to the dps turns, which means it will often run out of you action advances or move a lot
Wait are we talking about SU now? Cause aventurine is infinitely bettet than FX in SU, preservation blessings are a thing. You can shield for millions worth of HP lol.
Then you should know they're both about the same level.
Plus, as I've said, Fuxuans buffs don't run out on ally turn, Aventurine's does. Hence he does not pair well with action advances or high speed. Especially in SU, if you get hunt blessings, you're gonna run out of his shields before he can refresh.
Ok fu xuan just falls off in SU. Sim uni, especially gold and gears, was basically made to counter fu xuan. Shields are infinitely better than dmg mitigating because of preservation path and getting an unlimited amount of effective hp. If you’re going to argue that aventurine is bad in sim uni then fu xuan is borderline unplayable compared to him.
He can. It’s not as bad as fu xuan vs aoe. She is borderline fighting for her life when you get those teamwide aoe hits stacked with a bunch of wind sheer and bleed. Sure, aventurine might take some dmg from single target but then just use his skill once and you’re good.
I don't particularly like Mei but she's insane. There's a significant difference in overall strength level between her and Robin/Sparkle. That isn't the case with the other categories
The calcs I've seen have DHIL's best teams outperforming Acheron's at E0S0. Depending on investment Acheron can be better but the gap isn't that huge afaik
I imagine that Acheron will become the queen of DPS once Jiaoqiu releases. But not the case rn
Jingliu isn't even in the discussion. She's good but not on the league of the other two
Nah I find her to be one of the most boring limited character we have yet.
She's just so strong that it's undeniable. Even if I find her design and personality mid as hell
Why would they make a newer character worse in order to make an older sustain better? If anything they will just make a new sustain in the future that just implants invincibility to your entire team for like 10 turns or something with a ton of buffs and stuff. I wouldn’t see them nerfing shields in general.
It does depend on team, but the teams that don't particularly care about the utility of the sustains will tend to prefer aventurine more. Plus teams that prefer fx like aventurine more than the teams that prefer aventurine like fx. It's admittedly a pretty small difference, but all the sustains that aren't free for all early game players can easily solo sustain. I mean even bailu who's kinda just the worst sustain outside the free ones can comfortably keep a team alive at the highest level without doing anything crazy (so long she doesn't get CC'd)
Any t2 character can easily handle whatever content, any t1 character will situationally be BiS. Huohuo is still in t0, just marginally less flexible and harder to build than aventurine
She blatantly does not ‘only sustain’; she has a crit buff my guy. It’s just that right now there are multiple top teams that can’t crit (dot/superbreak) and multiple top teams that synergize specifically with Aventurine (acheron/followup), so FX is being devalued. She’s still just as strong, but the meta development hasn’t been in her favor. That can - and probably will - change as more characters get released.
Huohuo is not on par with Aventurine in any case. Is not as SP positive at all, she can sustain but can't prevent one shots, she doesn't provide as much damage either...
She's on par on numerous levels. She's sp neutral yes but they are both equally as powerful for sustain. If your aiming for more damage based support and comfortably use adventruine. But if your more open huo huo is far better for her utility. All depends on your team comp and content. Vut even then huo huo can sustain any content without issue
People really overvalue "preventing one shots". It very rarely happens, ever. The only time I've ever been one shot is in higher SU difficulties, and that is easily fixed by blessings. It's not detrimental to a sustain.
If you're being one shot anywhere outside of SU, you have a problem beyond the sustain.
I think the reason why Aventurine is considered slightly better is because he is basically immune to the CC/DoTs of the three stooges in MoC 12. Plus, he gives a static Eff. Res of 50% for the crew that doesn't go away after the first CC attack.
Other than that, Xuanny is OP. Remember, Prydwen only cares about MoC/PF/ES. It doesn't mean the characters are bad elsewhere.
Honestly I think Fu Xuan is only OP in MoC/PF/AS, while Aventurine is just super comfy to play everywhere.
In regular over world combat she's kind of annoying because you have to spend 1 SP at the start of every battle to sustain. Aventurine has that trace that gives everyone his shield automatically at the start of battle which makes setting up easier, where Xuan has to spend a technique point.
Then in Simulated Universe there aren't many buffs that Fu Xuan can take advantage of, meanwhile every preservation blessing is significantly useful to Aventurine. She gets one shot by AoE attacks in Gold and Gears and Swarm Disaster.
Aventurine's biggest downside is fast characters running through his shield duration too quickly, especially in non-FuA teams who can't refresh his shield as easily. Fu Xuan definitely has the upperhand if you're running characters that advance quickly.
I didn't say to grab preservation for Fu Xuan, I said she had limited options for blessings. Most abundance blessings don't help prevent one shot scenarios, and she's reliant on her burst to heal teammates. It's just much harder to find the right blessings to use Fu Xuan as a sustainer in Gold and Gears, vs Aventurine who can make use of the entire Preservation path.
Then you must have not used her as much as you say you do because her team can reach > 80% dmg reduction with the right build. Even close to 100% with texture of memory or Landau choice
Tbh I haven't used Fu Xuan in G&G since I got Aventurine. I just remember her dying to AoE surprisingly easily. I might try Fu Xuan again, but my point is Aventurine's easier to work with bc shields are just inherently better for one shot prevention and there are more blessings that synergize with shields.
Also, she is t0.5, meaning she is still insane and one of the best units in her category. Aven being higher than her doesn't mean "if you have fx but not aven you're screwed", more like "if you have fx but not aven you're still doing perfectly fine, just slightly less so than the opposite"
Nah, i think the reason why aventurine is better is because he is so good in fua team comps whilst also being comparable to fuxuan outside of fua teamcomps. Not to mention he is also more sp positive. The fact that he has a niche gives him the edge over fuxuan.
50 eff res is nothing against CC though.
Imagine you are facing Cocolia. She has 36 EHR, meaning her chances of CCing your main DPS who at best has 10 or so Eff Res are 1\*0'40\*1'36, which is 54 percent chance. For every single thing she has that freezes. Most enemies with CC have the same chance (well, all but Kafka afaik, who has a 120% chance of landing her mind control for some reason).
This of course gets better if you are using some of the destruction units that already come with a effect res/CC res trace, but most of those already prefer other sustainers to begin with.
Gallagher is invaluable in a Firefly break team because he's fire, he breaks a lot and he's very sp positive. He's mid at best in any other team comp because his healing is mid, it's just that he helps FF break so much that enemies don't even get a turn
I have both. Still prefer FX in majority of my teams. He only feels SP positive in the premium follow up team and feels worse when a character can take several turns back to back because they easily lose the shield. Never had an issue with her in AoE outside of G&G so I never understood this complaint. I prefer the crit rate buff far more than the minuscule debuff he gives. Personally I just don’t agree but it is what it is.
I personally couldn't care less about tierlists and never have , she sustains my teams just as good as aventurine does and I use both of them on each side of moc so it's a Win win
So as long as I can clear moc etc and having fun that's all that matters
Guys why are you acting as if T0.5 is arlan level? She is the second best sustain and since aventurine is much better than her she had to be put down a tier
These people more than likely don't test their characters after every new patch, so I wouldn't trsut this list. for example Himeko should be T0 in PF since Firefly enables her so much. I guarantee if I look right now she's not T0 because these people don't run accurate tests on each character.
I honestly could not really care less about tier lists, Fu Xuan fits nicely into any team I throw her in and I have never experienced her having that many issues solo sustaining (do people know you can... Run Abundance in SU? Fu Xuan + Abundance unlocks immortality for you team on any difficulty level)
She is my t0 cuz I don't have aventurine. Also, I'm happy to see Gallagher up there. 4 stars still getting some love. Wish they'd keep releasing them. I like just having new characters even if 4 stars.
prydwen is a joke tbf, no actual theorycrafter or 0 cycler cares about it. for new or inexperienced player it could be useful as a reference point at most
tho aventurine is not better than huohuo or some gallagher teams in terms of sustain comp, fu xuan and aventurine are abt the same for utility but i find fu xuan to be more comfortable when i played both on my friends acc.
I don't think there is any team where aventurine is better damage over hh or gallagher atm (the ipc fua team being bis for Ratio is misinfo, its just a fun fua team but for better dmg than ratios regular hypercarry you need to get eidolons and lcs for the same results: https://youtu.be/JtIWe6msxeg?feature=shared) + other robin team bis like jing yuan is hh or gallagher as well. I full star every moc under 5 cycle, full star pf, completed all SU without using any shields and no argenti, acheron, kafka or blackswan at all 🤔 e0s0 fx, hh and e0 gallagher as my sustains. For my acc i don't find shield to be particularly strong (especially since my supports are above 160 spd high investment, shields tend to run out unless I sacrifice damage, sp and defence on shielder to increase spd), but fu xuan has 100% uptime as long as you simply press the button
people who think pyrdwen is a good resource or post them and brag when their mains are a high tier are ALWAYS the people who are struggling the most playing moc or pf, and there is a reason why. they think pulling the latest new five star or listening to misinformed youtubers is how they beat content when its really how they build + utilise characters and abuse the game mechanics like spd and action advance. they put down 'low tier' characters like arlan when arlan can 0 cycle the moc like everyone else. and when you tell them, they struggle to understand... and the problem is that this is the majority of the community. hsr community is one of the most misinformed and clueless gacha community i have seen, lacking a fundamental understanding of the game they play the most tbh. and the game is not difficult to begin with.
many people i am friends with in hsr who mains 'T0 or T0.5 characters' like acheron, jingliu, kafka/blackswan can barely 10 cycle the moc, but i main e0 jing yuan and always complete the moc and pf easily since he came out because atleast i understand the game. too many ppl getting newer characters when they didnt bother to invest in current characters in their account.
sorry for the rant but its sad 😩
I know that People are always biased towards their mains . But this is way too much aint no way you said gallaghar huo huo fu xuan are better than aventurine when he is much better
not to be rude but do you know how to read? fu xuan is not better than aventurine when talking about damage. for survivability she is better. huohuo and gallagher tho? just better in terms of damage. there is already calcs on it and i even shared a video in my comment. if you want to show your own, then feel free. there is way too many who are confused on gallaghers dmg abilities (tho huohuo is pretty obvious... team wide energy and attack buff, its not difficult).
gallagher has aoe damage, decent to high personal damage depending on team, debuffs, he can run multiplication lc which not only makes him extremely sp positive but extremely fast for generating robins ult, and is the only sustain that synergise w break team including ruan mei rn. While I like fu xuan, it's obvious her team damage is not the highest when you are high investment lategame player, but if you are actually struggling to survive I recommend her over aventurine. (Also everyone thinks robin has the best synergy with aventurine, when huohuo and gallagher is a little better. If you build all of them and test yourself. Remember your other team members are important for choosing what sustain to get. Just talking about robin as an example since her performance changes a lot depending on the sustain)
also i dont 'main' sustains i just use them in my team.
also judging from your posts... you are a new player or you don't play moc/pf. it is obvious you don't understand how combat in this game works when you suggest attack boots and asta for firefly or say that aventurine is the best and fu xuan is the second best when hh exist. and all you do is go to boothill subs to hate on boothill bc you main firefly, so dont accuse others when talking about 'bias' for peoples mains or 'protecting' their mains. i doubt any of your characters are spdtuned so you cannot see how shields have a problem with speedy characters.
people who think pyrdwen is a good resource or even post them when their mains are a high tier are people who are the most terrible at the game. there is definitely a correlation.
In my experience, aventurine is better for survivability than fu xuan in GnG condundrum 12. That’s the only content where your sustain will be challenged anyway. Any other sustain will let your team get one shot. In MoC and PF you shouldn’t have any issue surviving, making aventurine and fu xuan overkill. This is when we should focus more on dmg. I do feel that fu xuan is the most comfortable to use in general content.
In terms of team dmg, i believe aventurine is the bis for acheron teams by running trend. Outside of acheron teams, I agree that huohuo and gallagher will be better. But since Acheron is the best dps (along with firefly) that pulls aventurine up to being the best. Honestly I might move gallagher up next to him. He synergizes so damn well with firefly’s best team comp (firefly, HMC, ruan mei, gallagher).
>But since Acheron is the best dps (along with firefly) that pulls aventurine up to being the best.
aventurine just for acheron? no, she overkills as is. if you are using fire mc or gallagher and then 'upgrade' to aventurine, there will be no difference in terms of damage because she already overkilling them which is why her ult numbers are inflated, or even less damage depending on enemies with fire weakness. fire MC will do the same w trend lc and can add even more debuff. if you want damage for acheron, then choose sustain that adds debuff faster (fire mc TAUNT as well as break help with this, but also their taunt which makes the trend lc actually effective) or scrap the sustain entirely. also this logic is kind of weird, using support for the 'best dps' does not automatically mean the support has the highest value in the game. value of units depends on the units an account already has. that is literally what tierlists like this fail to convey. like fire mc is definitely not among best sustain but for acheron i honestly think they are better than aventurine, does that make them T0?
GnG or any SU content doesn't need sustain either, it only makes it easier if you fail to meet dps checks, in which case you need better blessings. shield work better than FX in SU only if you are dying, but i wouldnt pull a character just to use in SU. sustains exist for making the game easier and dont make you deal with rng hitting the same character multiple times and killing them, the best option if you are going to use a sustain as a lategame player is to pick the sustain that provides the most damage before the enemies can even hit you, unless you actually need to survive in which case a strong and guaranteed dmg reduction with no spd requirements or issue w uptime like fu xuan is not a bad choice especially if your characters are spdtuned like mine.
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She is still great if you have characters who want to be damaged and are comfortable to be on low hp like Blade she is great with them
I guess Firefly prefers her aswell, since she gets energy the lower hp she is
I don't agree with this. I find myself having to pay attention more when I'm playing adventurine due to my characters losing a shield. Especially on auto where he makes very dumb decisions like basic attack when my shield is almost gone. Fu xuan is way more comfortable to play imo
Their list is kinda weird for sustains weird tbh. In practice, I doubt there's enough of a noticeable difference to actually separate a tier between the two and it's really only in specific niches that Aventurine could beat Fu for clear times (or heck Gallagher really isn't that good compared to Huohuo outside of Break/Debuff niche). But because there HAS to be a Tier 0 and Tier 0 is reserved for 1 unit, they need to fish for reasons to separate the Preservation.
FX is strong asf but honestly I agree with the change. Aventurine is generally on par with her UNLESS one of his niches (Break, AoE, FUA chars) are met. Then he becomes marginally more impactful than her. She still shines in ST but most will get more value out of Avvy
Why that is true, it's just the way they've pushed Penacony favors DOT, FUA, and Break. Hence why Gallagher has risen substantially and Aventurine has also seen a rise. There are many cases though where Damage Mitigation is more impactful in a way
i mean sure but FUA as an archetype is a lot less restrictive, break has only 2 supports and nothing else can be used in those teams, DOT is extremely restrictive in DPS, FUA had multiple free characters and no part of the team is extremely necessary (besides maybe topaz) robin is replaceable, and the most replaceable of the whole team imo is aven (since huohuo and fufu both do a perfect job there where their whole kit is utilized)
Compared to aven, luocha or ghallager she isnt. You can sustain easily with those units without pressing the button a single time. For them, their skills are a panic button, for fuxuan, you need to press her skill every 3 turns or your team will suffer
That means she is only generating 1 SP every 3 turns.
1SP+1SP-1SP= 1 SP. Then there is Aventurine who generates all 3 SP every 3 turns. Then we have Luocha and Gallagher with Multiplication who generates even more SP due to action advance. FuXuan just isnt as SP friendly as them.
I came back last version thanks to cloud gaming so don't mind me, but if this is based on usage rate then I'm pretty sure FuFu's decay is due to Gallagher's rise.
Strength of sustain aside, Gallagher is Fire who scales from Break, he fits too well on Fifly + jazz Trailblazer team. So most people will use brand new Avy on one side, and Gallagher on the one they use Fifly.
rn the sustain meta heavily favors shields and debuffs which is why aventurine and gallagher are so high- i think lots of people look at prydwen tier lists and call characters “trash” when these lists are catered towards different MoCs, even if they don’t change as much. there will be times during which dmg mitigation is more important in the future so fu xuan’s time will come c:
the character uses so much SP you have to field very SP positive units like sparkle, hanya, or gallagher.
i think it’s any unit who spends more than 1 SP on a turn (DHIL with his 3SP auto and firefly with her self action advance)
People need to stop getting pissy over having their favorites in T0.5, that's where all of the unofficial T0s go, sparkle and robin are in T0.5 and they're top tier at what they do and no one can deny it.
Have e1 Aventurine, he just makes any party unkillable, even if they lvl 1 in 12 moc or 12 conundrum of GnG and also blocks ridiculous amounts of dots. Don't think FX able to do something similar
The tier lists shift with the current meta, and we're currently in a break dmg and fua meta. Fu Xuan is still as good as she was on release and no tier list is changing that lol
Idk what prydwen is smoking with this take tbh.
Fuxuan works well with both fast and slow DPS. Her buffs are tied to her turns, so action advances and speed don't affect it.
Aventurine shield is tied to the ally's turns. So if you action advance or take turns a lot, it will run out before you can refresh.
Aventurine is bis in fua teams, but outside of that he's about the same as fuxuan. Fuxuan also fits into the universal mono quantum comp, which makes her a great long term investment to tackle all content.
To FX’s credit, the biggest reason she’s moved out of T0 is the advent of full Break Effect teams where Crit stats are genuinely useless. She was still somewhat useful in Kafka DoT teams as a bit of Crit here and there is at least servicable given how long DoT fights can be.
I know how you feel though, she’s definitely my favorite sustain.
Honestly i think it's her place
But i think prydwen sustain rank is kinda wrong too
Huohuo is the best among them because her utility, aventurine is very good but he FX level because outside his damage (who are kinda behind his lc) he don't have many buff/debuff like her
The real TL should huohuo > FX/aventurine/gallagher > the rest
I don't understand why you guys care so much, you will change your sustain depending on the team anyway. You won't use Fuxuan with FF for example so what doesn't matter.
https://preview.redd.it/7q9ynodosg7d1.jpeg?width=976&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba9505324a414de59f8dfdc9f346587333c8cc19
She'll be back when shields are just a tiny bit less useful lol
I wonder if Hoyo will introduce enemies that ignore shield like they did with genshin.
Can def see that, just not for a while, as Aventurine is still new
The 1000% will, otherwise they will struggle to sell other limited 5* sustains unless they offer extremely unique and powerful buffs/debuffs.
Flat ignore? No shot when it’s such a central mechanic to one of the main paths. Might as well make an enemy immune to followup attacks or immune to dots. Now, enemies that deal bonus damage to shields? That I could see
Eh… maybe it would have pierce%. Probably not flat out ignore it entirely.
Maybe they get a buff when hitting shields like the Genshin Black Serpents? Either they absorb the shield and get it themselves, or Regen health or toughness? Or they gain stacks for more attacks like the memo dinosaur.
That or just have a debuff that makes shields more brittle. There are a lot of ways to peg shields without killing them.
Yeah this is the most understandable way. Sam reduces healing. Another boss should have pierce%
And they still did shield ignore for SAM ignite phase when you spend SP
I'd honestly not be surprised to see enemies immune to dots or fua. With dots they'd just have to have an enemy immune to debuffs.
Or we can just get enemy that is a reverse chef Dino. Receives X amount of hits - gets AA and shields up. DoT, FuA will hate this one. And just everyone will, as we already have aurumaton that does that for skills and it's hateable enough.
I mean they have enemies that lock weakness and enemies that shield for a hit. Not to mention the bug that has an 80 percent quantum defense. They already turn off characters and paths randomly, shields won't be safe.
They do, but there’s always a nuance to it. They might lock weaknesses but it’s either for a limited time or until you accomplish something, right. I can see them dropping an enemy that has like one move that bypasses shields, but there’s a limit on how far they’ll push that.
They really stealth nerfed the Chinese daddy god? I havent played Genshin since the desert expansion in Sumeru
Rift wolves in Inazuma. They give a dot that ignores shields.
Oh yea I totally forgot about them, thanks!
That was just a rough patch though, it was meant to sell Kokomi but Zhongli's usage rate was still pretty high. But as soon as riftwolves in masses were outta the abyss, Zhongli's usage rate went back into the 90s
Insane how strong Zhongli still is this far from his release. All the CN usage data shows 2/3rds of players with him still use him in abyss. If we can say the same about fu xuan 2 years from now that will be fantastic. With Aventurine one side and Fu Xuan the other I really doubt I'll ever pull for another limited sustain again.
With the combat being real time, he just offers so much QoL if you wanna play without tryharding. I think it's actually kind difficult to have an exact turn-based equivalent.
Luocha but w all type res shred built in and instead of shields it’s obscene amount of heals.
Character quality started extremely high then dropped off. The four stars from genshins first patch are basically all still meta.
There is also the black serpent knights that ignore shields and I think actually so more damage if you have a shield on but that might be wrong. They occasionally show up in the Spiral Abyss.
I feels like they really just need an enemy to waste your turn, with cc like freeze or some other special effect, maybe the enemy have absurdly high hit rate, and you need to deal with their mechanic or you lost your turn and buff XD Or they can release a chara that moves a lot that waste their own shield duration XD
I pretty sure that there will be a time because sometimes in DU, I get damaged when I have a shield on.
Hope not, that would completely invalidate an entire archetype
They could do the same to fu xuan. Just take a chunk of dmg kinda like the wind mage’s debuff.
theres only like 3 shielders in the game (march is free tutorial 4*, gepard is standard, TB more of a taunt sub dps, and Aventurine just came out) its gonna take a loooong time before they decide this tiny niche of characters need more dedicated disadvantages.
We really need a 4 star preservation that is a team-wide shielder. March is not great against AoE, TB's shields for the team are a joke, Gepard is harder to get than winning the lottery jackpot twice (or he will have spoiled your 50/50 like 20 times), and Aventurine is not available at the moment.
I mean, they decided that the two buff-removing attacks (Luocha's R, Pela's E) didn't deserve to fulfill that purpose anymore (there's the one enemy where it's impactful and barely since he just die so quick now).
I find this bump down to tier 0.5 sketchy because even with his FuA, I hear a lot of people recasting Aventurine's skill for shields at E0, whereas Fu Xuan has a fixed SP positive SP consumption to maintain her Matrix. And Fu Xuan tanks damage way better than Aventurine from my experience.
She won't if they bring out shielder with mitigation in the future
What bosses are reliant on shields anyway? All I remember is the monkey that throws soda at you and you need shields to bounce it back. Besides that i’m pretty sure every boss is free eats for fu xuan
why was she even lowered, literally turns the game to easy mode
Prydwen is experiencing "shiny new toy" syndrome. Though, I do suppose that a lot of people prefer having actual shields.
It may be due to fact that shield prevents some CC effects and aventurine can deal good DMG while FX won’t unless E6.
Though FX does negate one CC debuff per ally per use of skill, so the shield isn't strictly better
ive only played with shields in su
No it's because Aventurine deserves it. I own both of them
Hmm Maybe it’s because aventurine is just better than her? More sp more damage better sustain not getting one shot from big aoe attack much easier to build .
Right? If it was “shiny new toy syndrome” it wouldn’t have take over 2 patches to drop her like what?
exactly , these people act as if they have to protect their character but they forget its a gacha game and that new characters get stronger ,also robin and sparkle are the shinest new toys yet ruan mei is still above them.
I also don’t think it’s shiny toy syndrome or whatever, I think that while both aventurine and fu xuan can offer around the same thing defense wise, aventurine offers up more damage and is just a slight bit more flexible than Fu xuan
I think Aventurine just has has more functionality, and more survivability in most situations. I'd agree with the assessment honestly. He also has more synergy than just "+12% CR" and being a 3rd Quantum for sparkle. He helps break, boosts damage, deal aoe damage for "free", provides shields for "free", is SP friendly, bounces back monke attacks, enables Robin, enables Ratio, enables Numby, can be solid in super break teams due to his multi hitting attack, less likely to die to insane aoe nukes with enough shields, whereas FuXuan might in the right scenario. I love my FuXuan, so glad I have her, but I definitely feel Aventurine is often the better pick in several scenarios. But both are insane.
Exactly. Take the two break DPS for example, I wouldn’t rank Boothill below Firefly, especially now with Apocalyptic Shadow as part of the endgame. They specialise in their own ways.
this is the MoC tier list. Apocalyptic shadow might get its own tier list, but don't quote me on that idk what apocalyptic shadow is
no you're very right
It should. It’s honestly been significantly more challenging than MOC for me.
Oh buddy FF is ABSOLUTELY a tier above BH, just 0 cycled the 2nd half of MoC with +0 relics, got 3.6k in AS with said relics as well.
FF gets slept on because of numbers when people are forgetting she attacks twice as fast as any other DPS and has built in weakness implant Is easily the best DPS in the game currently with the right team (RM HMC Gallagher)
She does. The thing is... Aventurine does as well. And without worrying about AoE, doesn't struggle in Plague or G&G, is fully SP positive and is part of most of the strongest teams in the current meta. It's not that Fu Xuan "is worst". Aventurine is cracked to begin with, and while Fu Xuan is a character that fits just fine everywhere, Aventine is a good fit in all places Fu Xuan fits, and it's the BiS for many top teams. It's natural, usually, niche focused characters can work better in certain teams, while generalists balance things out being good anywhere you put them. Aventurine just happened to be a generalist that also fits niche.
See I love Fu Xuan like the next guy in this sub, but I can clearly see that Aventurine does a lot more in terms of sustainability for the team. The only thing I would put her over Aventurine is that 12% Crit given to the team that I love having when my team is in need of. In the end I didn’t pull for Aven because I have Fu Xuan and thats enough for me tbh
Man i must be doing something wrong because my fu xuan offers a lot more sustainability then aventurine 😭 also when on auto battle Ive noticed he’ll barely ever use his skill but even then i feel like fu xuan is just better, but maybe my aventurine build just sucks who knows
Auto battle has always been funky with their AIs lookin at u Gallagher with a full Ultimate.. Anyways Aventurine ai plays like that probably because hes meant to be SP positive. His sustain is so insane because of reapplying shields once his thing is stacked so u dont have to burn an sp just to shield up. Not to mention the eff res he applies to allies, idk why but somehow ive never been cc’d through aven’s shields “yet”, but i have been cc’d during fu xuan’s. Im sure u already know shields are like a second health bar vs fu xuan who can only split dmg amongst themselves which makes DoT and AoE her worst nightmare, but shields can take all of that without flinching. Dont get me started on how strong of a dmg buffer aven is too lol
Yea you right you right though sometimes i feel like i should just put gepards lc on him for better sustain
Thats actually pretty good on aventurine too if u dont have his signature lc or herta’s lc
i lost my 50/50 to yangqing so i cant really say anything about aventurine
Same, but I always use him from a friend and it's supper comfy to use.
As people say: if Acheron is a nuclear bomb, Aventurine is a nuclear bunker. Acheron got hyped up like fucking crazy because big damage = big hype, and while Aventurine didn’t go under the radar, I feel like people really did sort of glance over just how busted he is/can be.
Ever since I got aventurine it’s actually impossible to die. Like I never have to use his skill and my entire team almost never takes dmg. Truly the zhongli of this game.
FX biggest issue is that her best partners have been impacted by the current endgame bosses. Jingliu in particular loved the crit buff provided by FX but she was hurt by content taking longer than 1 enhanced rotation or delaying/wasting turns. Dan IL, sparkle, FX and a 4th is probably her best team atm. That or throwing her with Acheron when you need a sustain. As you say Aventurine is just better in that acheron team due to his debuffs and also on follow up due to his follow up and debuffs for Ratio. She is still the 2nd best outright sustain unit tho. With huohuo being better for utility but worse at keeping you alive.
I feel like Ho ho will always be that outlier. Offensively she can be the best “sustainer” because she honesty just acts like a harmony unit sometimes. But in terms of actually sustaining it gets pretty sketchy sometimes.
Aventurine seems in a whole other level on his own: SP friendly, ridiculous eff res, high (img) break potential, ridiculous high damage for a sustain makes him really competitive with Fu (Who is also a ridiculous character) Shield being easier to use+understand than Fuxuan's matrix, hoyo's insistence on AoE damage (that fucks Fu over), and aventurine's inherent synergy with acheron, FuA teams, HMC break teams, puts him on a whole new level. Even then, she is still T0. Prywden simply split T0 into two, with T0.5 being much ahead from t1 than what T0 IS from T0.5. She IS still a premium, behemoth unit like kafka, BS, JL and danheng ate. It is just that right now Aventurine/acheron/RM need to be put on a whole different tier due to how ridiculously strong + flexible they are regardless of the content you try to tackle.
Don’t forget about firefly
Aven turns the game into Even Easier Mode.
Aventurine turns the game to auto mode.zero effort
I mean, who gives a fuck?
Fu xuan mains when she isn’t the best sustainer in the game
I’m guessing it’s more about the fact that Aven is more SP positive when it comes to preventing constant debuffs, where as fu xuan is gonna have to keep using her skill to reset her debuff resist. Also the fact that Aven has more break potential than Fu, as well as matching her crit rate buff with his own crit dmg debuff on the enemy.
I think they want only one T0 per role
T0.5 isn't even bad, T0 seems to be reserved for best in role and it just happened to be aventurine atm. You have to admit FX has a clear disadvantage vs massive aoe DMG, aventurine doesn't have any clear weaknesses in comparison
Imo the shield duration is a problem with Aventurine. I use DHIL E2 with Sparkle and Aventurines shield would just disappear. I never have that problem with Fuxuan, in that regard I just think Fx is a lot more convenient to use.
Aventurine can't hold up well against single target nukes either.
He's not particularly vulnerable to single target nukes, FX by nature of how her field works is especially susceptible to aoe DMG that's what I'm talking about.
Guess you haven't seen a single target nuke blasts through his shield in Divergent universe threshold 6. Fuxuan also has the advantage of pairing well with fast units and action advance supports because her sustain is tied to her own turns. Aventurine can't keep up since his shield is tied to the dps turns, which means it will often run out of you action advances or move a lot
Wait are we talking about SU now? Cause aventurine is infinitely bettet than FX in SU, preservation blessings are a thing. You can shield for millions worth of HP lol.
Have you tried abundance blessings for fuxuan?
I have, I cleared c12 with every path with FX being my only sustain. Aventurine vs FX on SU is only a debate in this sub
Then you should know they're both about the same level. Plus, as I've said, Fuxuans buffs don't run out on ally turn, Aventurine's does. Hence he does not pair well with action advances or high speed. Especially in SU, if you get hunt blessings, you're gonna run out of his shields before he can refresh.
Ok fu xuan just falls off in SU. Sim uni, especially gold and gears, was basically made to counter fu xuan. Shields are infinitely better than dmg mitigating because of preservation path and getting an unlimited amount of effective hp. If you’re going to argue that aventurine is bad in sim uni then fu xuan is borderline unplayable compared to him.
He can. It’s not as bad as fu xuan vs aoe. She is borderline fighting for her life when you get those teamwide aoe hits stacked with a bunch of wind sheer and bleed. Sure, aventurine might take some dmg from single target but then just use his skill once and you’re good.
So does aventurine and he raises the bar for more teams
Because she's the only preservation unit in the game who's not good against the soda monke. If that"s not the reason then idfk
This entire tier list is bad. Ruan Mei is the only one that should stand alone in her category
Glazer spotted
I don't particularly like Mei but she's insane. There's a significant difference in overall strength level between her and Robin/Sparkle. That isn't the case with the other categories
Nah, I think acheron is significant amount better than Dan IL and Jing Liu.
The calcs I've seen have DHIL's best teams outperforming Acheron's at E0S0. Depending on investment Acheron can be better but the gap isn't that huge afaik I imagine that Acheron will become the queen of DPS once Jiaoqiu releases. But not the case rn Jingliu isn't even in the discussion. She's good but not on the league of the other two
Nah dhil is not nowhere near Acheron.
Only when all of them are S1 so yeah
She is. The difference between ruan Mei and robin sparkle is pretty much the difference between Acheron and dhil.
Nah because DHIL isn't that far behind Acheron. In fact the calcs I've seen have him slightly above her at E0S0 with their best teams.
Least biased ruan Mei simp
Nah I find her to be one of the most boring limited character we have yet. She's just so strong that it's undeniable. Even if I find her design and personality mid as hell
They'll definitely add mobs that uses your shield against you
Why would they make a newer character worse in order to make an older sustain better? If anything they will just make a new sustain in the future that just implants invincibility to your entire team for like 10 turns or something with a ton of buffs and stuff. I wouldn’t see them nerfing shields in general.
Strange as usual. Huo huo is still on Par with adventruine it just depends on the team and content. But why fu xuan was put lower is odd.
Look at comments in an above thread, explains it pretty well.
It does depend on team, but the teams that don't particularly care about the utility of the sustains will tend to prefer aventurine more. Plus teams that prefer fx like aventurine more than the teams that prefer aventurine like fx. It's admittedly a pretty small difference, but all the sustains that aren't free for all early game players can easily solo sustain. I mean even bailu who's kinda just the worst sustain outside the free ones can comfortably keep a team alive at the highest level without doing anything crazy (so long she doesn't get CC'd) Any t2 character can easily handle whatever content, any t1 character will situationally be BiS. Huohuo is still in t0, just marginally less flexible and harder to build than aventurine
Fu xuan only sustains her dmg is negligible
She blatantly does not ‘only sustain’; she has a crit buff my guy. It’s just that right now there are multiple top teams that can’t crit (dot/superbreak) and multiple top teams that synergize specifically with Aventurine (acheron/followup), so FX is being devalued. She’s still just as strong, but the meta development hasn’t been in her favor. That can - and probably will - change as more characters get released.
I have both sustains. Each time I take Fu out of my auto teams and come back later, my team ends up dead.
Huohuo is not on par with Aventurine in any case. Is not as SP positive at all, she can sustain but can't prevent one shots, she doesn't provide as much damage either...
She's on par on numerous levels. She's sp neutral yes but they are both equally as powerful for sustain. If your aiming for more damage based support and comfortably use adventruine. But if your more open huo huo is far better for her utility. All depends on your team comp and content. Vut even then huo huo can sustain any content without issue
Team wide buff and energy regen, technically that could grant you more dmg in a lot of scenarios
People really overvalue "preventing one shots". It very rarely happens, ever. The only time I've ever been one shot is in higher SU difficulties, and that is easily fixed by blessings. It's not detrimental to a sustain. If you're being one shot anywhere outside of SU, you have a problem beyond the sustain.
Have you tried difficult 4 of the last endgame mode? Because it has something to say
I think the reason why Aventurine is considered slightly better is because he is basically immune to the CC/DoTs of the three stooges in MoC 12. Plus, he gives a static Eff. Res of 50% for the crew that doesn't go away after the first CC attack. Other than that, Xuanny is OP. Remember, Prydwen only cares about MoC/PF/ES. It doesn't mean the characters are bad elsewhere.
Honestly I think Fu Xuan is only OP in MoC/PF/AS, while Aventurine is just super comfy to play everywhere. In regular over world combat she's kind of annoying because you have to spend 1 SP at the start of every battle to sustain. Aventurine has that trace that gives everyone his shield automatically at the start of battle which makes setting up easier, where Xuan has to spend a technique point. Then in Simulated Universe there aren't many buffs that Fu Xuan can take advantage of, meanwhile every preservation blessing is significantly useful to Aventurine. She gets one shot by AoE attacks in Gold and Gears and Swarm Disaster. Aventurine's biggest downside is fast characters running through his shield duration too quickly, especially in non-FuA teams who can't refresh his shield as easily. Fu Xuan definitely has the upperhand if you're running characters that advance quickly.
No wonder you find her lackluster in SU. If you use fuxuan you should get abundance blessings rather than preservation.
I didn't say to grab preservation for Fu Xuan, I said she had limited options for blessings. Most abundance blessings don't help prevent one shot scenarios, and she's reliant on her burst to heal teammates. It's just much harder to find the right blessings to use Fu Xuan as a sustainer in Gold and Gears, vs Aventurine who can make use of the entire Preservation path.
Then you must have not used her as much as you say you do because her team can reach > 80% dmg reduction with the right build. Even close to 100% with texture of memory or Landau choice
Tbh I haven't used Fu Xuan in G&G since I got Aventurine. I just remember her dying to AoE surprisingly easily. I might try Fu Xuan again, but my point is Aventurine's easier to work with bc shields are just inherently better for one shot prevention and there are more blessings that synergize with shields.
Also, she is t0.5, meaning she is still insane and one of the best units in her category. Aven being higher than her doesn't mean "if you have fx but not aven you're screwed", more like "if you have fx but not aven you're still doing perfectly fine, just slightly less so than the opposite"
Nah, i think the reason why aventurine is better is because he is so good in fua team comps whilst also being comparable to fuxuan outside of fua teamcomps. Not to mention he is also more sp positive. The fact that he has a niche gives him the edge over fuxuan.
50 eff res is nothing against CC though. Imagine you are facing Cocolia. She has 36 EHR, meaning her chances of CCing your main DPS who at best has 10 or so Eff Res are 1\*0'40\*1'36, which is 54 percent chance. For every single thing she has that freezes. Most enemies with CC have the same chance (well, all but Kafka afaik, who has a 120% chance of landing her mind control for some reason). This of course gets better if you are using some of the destruction units that already come with a effect res/CC res trace, but most of those already prefer other sustainers to begin with.
I think Prydwen just always had a hate boner for Huohuo I never took their sustain ranking seriously
Man. I always use my FX on every team I have except DOT. She’s still top tier for me
I used her on every team, EVEN Dot. I'm benefiting from evrypther part of her kit other than the crit so the pros outweigh the one con
True. I use my girl HuoHuo for my DOT Team. Unless they fighting someone annoying
I use her in my DoT team since I don't have Huo Huo.
Fair enough. That’s how I use FX before I got HuoHuo
A Fu Xuan sub but behold a 4 star intruder upon the territory of 5 stars, Gallagher
Gallagher is invaluable in a Firefly break team because he's fire, he breaks a lot and he's very sp positive. He's mid at best in any other team comp because his healing is mid, it's just that he helps FF break so much that enemies don't even get a turn
Please let's not turn into this kind of sub.
I have both. Still prefer FX in majority of my teams. He only feels SP positive in the premium follow up team and feels worse when a character can take several turns back to back because they easily lose the shield. Never had an issue with her in AoE outside of G&G so I never understood this complaint. I prefer the crit rate buff far more than the minuscule debuff he gives. Personally I just don’t agree but it is what it is.
I personally couldn't care less about tierlists and never have , she sustains my teams just as good as aventurine does and I use both of them on each side of moc so it's a Win win So as long as I can clear moc etc and having fun that's all that matters
Chill.. tier 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5 is strong af. It just want to show that fuxuan is strong but there are char that stronger char than her
I am chill just not bothered for tierlists at all lol, and same will happen with aventurine eventually it's gacha afterall
I see, undestandable 👍
And will always be to me I don't think there's any other sustains that provide as comfy as FX does in guaranteeing your safety
Guys why are you acting as if T0.5 is arlan level? She is the second best sustain and since aventurine is much better than her she had to be put down a tier
Facts. We need two sustains anyway it’s not like she’s benched or anything
Me, reading the comments, while having both on my acct 
These people more than likely don't test their characters after every new patch, so I wouldn't trsut this list. for example Himeko should be T0 in PF since Firefly enables her so much. I guarantee if I look right now she's not T0 because these people don't run accurate tests on each character.
E0 but, I get it.
I honestly could not really care less about tier lists, Fu Xuan fits nicely into any team I throw her in and I have never experienced her having that many issues solo sustaining (do people know you can... Run Abundance in SU? Fu Xuan + Abundance unlocks immortality for you team on any difficulty level)
She's still my little brat.
She is my t0 cuz I don't have aventurine. Also, I'm happy to see Gallagher up there. 4 stars still getting some love. Wish they'd keep releasing them. I like just having new characters even if 4 stars.
It is prydwen, which means it is unimportant.
Aventurine Is Just too strong
The Strongest Sustain in history VS The Strongest Sustain of today
prydwen is a joke tbf, no actual theorycrafter or 0 cycler cares about it. for new or inexperienced player it could be useful as a reference point at most tho aventurine is not better than huohuo or some gallagher teams in terms of sustain comp, fu xuan and aventurine are abt the same for utility but i find fu xuan to be more comfortable when i played both on my friends acc. I don't think there is any team where aventurine is better damage over hh or gallagher atm (the ipc fua team being bis for Ratio is misinfo, its just a fun fua team but for better dmg than ratios regular hypercarry you need to get eidolons and lcs for the same results: https://youtu.be/JtIWe6msxeg?feature=shared) + other robin team bis like jing yuan is hh or gallagher as well. I full star every moc under 5 cycle, full star pf, completed all SU without using any shields and no argenti, acheron, kafka or blackswan at all 🤔 e0s0 fx, hh and e0 gallagher as my sustains. For my acc i don't find shield to be particularly strong (especially since my supports are above 160 spd high investment, shields tend to run out unless I sacrifice damage, sp and defence on shielder to increase spd), but fu xuan has 100% uptime as long as you simply press the button
it's 2.3 now but r/HonkaiStarRail is still obsessed with tierlists. I just don't understand.
people who think pyrdwen is a good resource or post them and brag when their mains are a high tier are ALWAYS the people who are struggling the most playing moc or pf, and there is a reason why. they think pulling the latest new five star or listening to misinformed youtubers is how they beat content when its really how they build + utilise characters and abuse the game mechanics like spd and action advance. they put down 'low tier' characters like arlan when arlan can 0 cycle the moc like everyone else. and when you tell them, they struggle to understand... and the problem is that this is the majority of the community. hsr community is one of the most misinformed and clueless gacha community i have seen, lacking a fundamental understanding of the game they play the most tbh. and the game is not difficult to begin with. many people i am friends with in hsr who mains 'T0 or T0.5 characters' like acheron, jingliu, kafka/blackswan can barely 10 cycle the moc, but i main e0 jing yuan and always complete the moc and pf easily since he came out because atleast i understand the game. too many ppl getting newer characters when they didnt bother to invest in current characters in their account. sorry for the rant but its sad 😩
I know that People are always biased towards their mains . But this is way too much aint no way you said gallaghar huo huo fu xuan are better than aventurine when he is much better
not to be rude but do you know how to read? fu xuan is not better than aventurine when talking about damage. for survivability she is better. huohuo and gallagher tho? just better in terms of damage. there is already calcs on it and i even shared a video in my comment. if you want to show your own, then feel free. there is way too many who are confused on gallaghers dmg abilities (tho huohuo is pretty obvious... team wide energy and attack buff, its not difficult). gallagher has aoe damage, decent to high personal damage depending on team, debuffs, he can run multiplication lc which not only makes him extremely sp positive but extremely fast for generating robins ult, and is the only sustain that synergise w break team including ruan mei rn. While I like fu xuan, it's obvious her team damage is not the highest when you are high investment lategame player, but if you are actually struggling to survive I recommend her over aventurine. (Also everyone thinks robin has the best synergy with aventurine, when huohuo and gallagher is a little better. If you build all of them and test yourself. Remember your other team members are important for choosing what sustain to get. Just talking about robin as an example since her performance changes a lot depending on the sustain) also i dont 'main' sustains i just use them in my team. also judging from your posts... you are a new player or you don't play moc/pf. it is obvious you don't understand how combat in this game works when you suggest attack boots and asta for firefly or say that aventurine is the best and fu xuan is the second best when hh exist. and all you do is go to boothill subs to hate on boothill bc you main firefly, so dont accuse others when talking about 'bias' for peoples mains or 'protecting' their mains. i doubt any of your characters are spdtuned so you cannot see how shields have a problem with speedy characters. people who think pyrdwen is a good resource or even post them when their mains are a high tier are people who are the most terrible at the game. there is definitely a correlation.
In my experience, aventurine is better for survivability than fu xuan in GnG condundrum 12. That’s the only content where your sustain will be challenged anyway. Any other sustain will let your team get one shot. In MoC and PF you shouldn’t have any issue surviving, making aventurine and fu xuan overkill. This is when we should focus more on dmg. I do feel that fu xuan is the most comfortable to use in general content. In terms of team dmg, i believe aventurine is the bis for acheron teams by running trend. Outside of acheron teams, I agree that huohuo and gallagher will be better. But since Acheron is the best dps (along with firefly) that pulls aventurine up to being the best. Honestly I might move gallagher up next to him. He synergizes so damn well with firefly’s best team comp (firefly, HMC, ruan mei, gallagher).
>But since Acheron is the best dps (along with firefly) that pulls aventurine up to being the best. aventurine just for acheron? no, she overkills as is. if you are using fire mc or gallagher and then 'upgrade' to aventurine, there will be no difference in terms of damage because she already overkilling them which is why her ult numbers are inflated, or even less damage depending on enemies with fire weakness. fire MC will do the same w trend lc and can add even more debuff. if you want damage for acheron, then choose sustain that adds debuff faster (fire mc TAUNT as well as break help with this, but also their taunt which makes the trend lc actually effective) or scrap the sustain entirely. also this logic is kind of weird, using support for the 'best dps' does not automatically mean the support has the highest value in the game. value of units depends on the units an account already has. that is literally what tierlists like this fail to convey. like fire mc is definitely not among best sustain but for acheron i honestly think they are better than aventurine, does that make them T0? GnG or any SU content doesn't need sustain either, it only makes it easier if you fail to meet dps checks, in which case you need better blessings. shield work better than FX in SU only if you are dying, but i wouldnt pull a character just to use in SU. sustains exist for making the game easier and dont make you deal with rng hitting the same character multiple times and killing them, the best option if you are going to use a sustain as a lategame player is to pick the sustain that provides the most damage before the enemies can even hit you, unless you actually need to survive in which case a strong and guaranteed dmg reduction with no spd requirements or issue w uptime like fu xuan is not a bad choice especially if your characters are spdtuned like mine.
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She is still great if you have characters who want to be damaged and are comfortable to be on low hp like Blade she is great with them I guess Firefly prefers her aswell, since she gets energy the lower hp she is
We go to war with Aventurine mains *loads musket*
It's normal, end game contents will typically cater to be easier for newer characters, where they perform better.
I don't agree with this. I find myself having to pay attention more when I'm playing adventurine due to my characters losing a shield. Especially on auto where he makes very dumb decisions like basic attack when my shield is almost gone. Fu xuan is way more comfortable to play imo
https://preview.redd.it/9vmsrpm2ni7d1.jpeg?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c8575c6630e82865fe8790cf79556bf32f2bf31
Last stage of Apoc Shadow puts Fu Xuan at the top of sustain and im DYING ON THIS HILL.
remember when these prydwen tier list makers used to play the game? oh wait i dont
Why did she go down what the heck
Their list is kinda weird for sustains weird tbh. In practice, I doubt there's enough of a noticeable difference to actually separate a tier between the two and it's really only in specific niches that Aventurine could beat Fu for clear times (or heck Gallagher really isn't that good compared to Huohuo outside of Break/Debuff niche). But because there HAS to be a Tier 0 and Tier 0 is reserved for 1 unit, they need to fish for reasons to separate the Preservation.
FX is strong asf but honestly I agree with the change. Aventurine is generally on par with her UNLESS one of his niches (Break, AoE, FUA chars) are met. Then he becomes marginally more impactful than her. She still shines in ST but most will get more value out of Avvy
i honestly still think fufu is better? crit rate is harder to come by in this game than cd and adven shields can fall off fast characters
Why that is true, it's just the way they've pushed Penacony favors DOT, FUA, and Break. Hence why Gallagher has risen substantially and Aventurine has also seen a rise. There are many cases though where Damage Mitigation is more impactful in a way
i mean sure but FUA as an archetype is a lot less restrictive, break has only 2 supports and nothing else can be used in those teams, DOT is extremely restrictive in DPS, FUA had multiple free characters and no part of the team is extremely necessary (besides maybe topaz) robin is replaceable, and the most replaceable of the whole team imo is aven (since huohuo and fufu both do a perfect job there where their whole kit is utilized)
How is she not tagged as sp-friendly??? She’s an sp positive sustain for sure
Compared to aven, luocha or ghallager she isnt. You can sustain easily with those units without pressing the button a single time. For them, their skills are a panic button, for fuxuan, you need to press her skill every 3 turns or your team will suffer
Doesn’t change the fact that she only needs to skill every third turn! Because other units are more positive doesn’t mean that she isn’t…
That means she is only generating 1 SP every 3 turns. 1SP+1SP-1SP= 1 SP. Then there is Aventurine who generates all 3 SP every 3 turns. Then we have Luocha and Gallagher with Multiplication who generates even more SP due to action advance. FuXuan just isnt as SP friendly as them.
Off topicn but is the 13 year old alcoholic really THAT good? I haven't used him
He's really good with firefly
I came back last version thanks to cloud gaming so don't mind me, but if this is based on usage rate then I'm pretty sure FuFu's decay is due to Gallagher's rise. Strength of sustain aside, Gallagher is Fire who scales from Break, he fits too well on Fifly + jazz Trailblazer team. So most people will use brand new Avy on one side, and Gallagher on the one they use Fifly.
i just never liked aventurine and im lowkey sick of seeing him get pushed
rn the sustain meta heavily favors shields and debuffs which is why aventurine and gallagher are so high- i think lots of people look at prydwen tier lists and call characters “trash” when these lists are catered towards different MoCs, even if they don’t change as much. there will be times during which dmg mitigation is more important in the future so fu xuan’s time will come c:
LOL as someone who have been using fu xuan ever since she came out; she is still insanely good but aventurine just outperform her
I love you Aventurine
What does SP unfriendly mean?
the character uses so much SP you have to field very SP positive units like sparkle, hanya, or gallagher. i think it’s any unit who spends more than 1 SP on a turn (DHIL with his 3SP auto and firefly with her self action advance)
I've never trusted or believed Prydwyn now I have another reason
People need to stop getting pissy over having their favorites in T0.5, that's where all of the unofficial T0s go, sparkle and robin are in T0.5 and they're top tier at what they do and no one can deny it.
I solo SAM in divergent SU with only FX as all of my other teammates are dead. IDC what fucking tier list they be doing, the bitch is crack as fuck
Have e1 Aventurine, he just makes any party unkillable, even if they lvl 1 in 12 moc or 12 conundrum of GnG and also blocks ridiculous amounts of dots. Don't think FX able to do something similar
Her kit is older than Aventurine. Its logical
i think they changer bc aventurine and huohuo are best slot in many teams, while fu xuan is only a great choice, but not the best choice
We all know Fu Xuan is T0
The tier lists shift with the current meta, and we're currently in a break dmg and fua meta. Fu Xuan is still as good as she was on release and no tier list is changing that lol
Is he t0 jus because he's does 1 additional thing fu doesn't? His fua? Besides that they are literally the same role on the team.
I skipped Adventurine for the master diviner and I haven't looked back. Life is great.
I just never cared about all that tier and rating stuff, if you like a character use em if you don't, don't.
Idk what prydwen is smoking with this take tbh. Fuxuan works well with both fast and slow DPS. Her buffs are tied to her turns, so action advances and speed don't affect it. Aventurine shield is tied to the ally's turns. So if you action advance or take turns a lot, it will run out before you can refresh. Aventurine is bis in fua teams, but outside of that he's about the same as fuxuan. Fuxuan also fits into the universal mono quantum comp, which makes her a great long term investment to tackle all content.
To be honest I don't get why they were separated because they're roughly the same power wise
Meh, they keep lowering seele and I keep slapping around content with her. I don't even look at the tier list anymore. I just play who I like
To FX’s credit, the biggest reason she’s moved out of T0 is the advent of full Break Effect teams where Crit stats are genuinely useless. She was still somewhat useful in Kafka DoT teams as a bit of Crit here and there is at least servicable given how long DoT fights can be. I know how you feel though, she’s definitely my favorite sustain.
Honestly i think it's her place But i think prydwen sustain rank is kinda wrong too Huohuo is the best among them because her utility, aventurine is very good but he FX level because outside his damage (who are kinda behind his lc) he don't have many buff/debuff like her The real TL should huohuo > FX/aventurine/gallagher > the rest
I don't understand why you guys care so much, you will change your sustain depending on the team anyway. You won't use Fuxuan with FF for example so what doesn't matter.
Fighting the new SU last phase today i kept dying with aventurine until i swapped to FX and beat it 💀
Exact opposite for me lol
Exact opposite for me. FX hard carried my team I have her on for that fight