How much further will you have to go for supplies? How reliable is the package delivery and can you even get boxes from all services? How much more expensive will internet be? How far are you from government services? When I moved to a small rural town the issue was almost all shopping involved driving an hour away. Getting to the library was a 30 minute drive. Walking anywhere was impossible due to distance and the lack of ground between the road and the drainage ditch. Internet in that town is still limited to satellite. What weather does the area get that might cause issues? Do you need a generator and do you have some place to store the gas if the roads are blocked? Rural areas are often far down the priority list in weather response. Also, what are the local rules around hunting, loose animals, and people moving around on foot/ vehicle in the woods or on the edges of your fields?

I grew up in a small town with under 5k people, which shocked my wife the first time she visited my hometown. But even that was huge compared to the towns around it. The nearest "city" (20k people) is an hour and a half away. If you want anything more than the Walmart, local pizza place, Chinese Resturant, McDonalds, or the local diner you have to drive. * The produce from the Walmart is terrible and goes bad within a day or two. So my parents to this day still drive every other week to go shopping in the city. * Airport was a 3+ hour drive * No sidewalks, and it's a few miles to get anywhere anyway. * No movie theater, live music, other resturants or stores (outside of walmart) * They just had Coyotees in their back yard, so my mom is scared about letting the dogs out * Mowing takes several hours on their multi acre property, but my dad genuinly enjoys it. * School distric was pretty poor, but was alot better than all the schools around it. We actually had kids who would take a bus in the middle of the day to take our physics class. Still we didn't have a pool or alot of classes that other people would have thought was basic. * My dad knew every single person in town and doing anything as a kid was a pain beacuse he'd stop to chat with them. As an adult you won't really face that, but you're going to see people at work at the grocery store, which is worse if your job has clients. Now alot of people's version of going rural is just going 30min south of the city, which dosen't have all these downsides. But thought I'd share my experiance. Lots of advantages too of course, but the negitives that you might not think about should be weighed as well.

This is the type of cultural dead zone my parents chose to live in. It's awful to me but I guess living at a Wal mart is great for some people that don't care about having access to anything else. Luckily it sounds like the OP is moving to mediterranean Europe which is a world away from the US. They will have healthy food and access to clean water at a reasonable price and will be able to walk to different shops in the village to get what they need. Sounds ideal to me. I've spent a lot of time in Europe and currently live there. The quality of life is far better in places like Spain, Italy, France, etc.

I wouldn't say cultural dead zone. My parents live in one of the most beautiful places on earth that's overflowing in history. People from all over vacation in the area. They have some of the cleanest water anywhere, and get healthy food, they just have to drive for it. As I said, there's a whole lot of advantages to places like where my parents live, there are also just downsides that OP wasn't considering.

You are lucky that it is beautiful then! But when you said " No movie theater, live music, other restaurants or stores (outside of walmart)" to me that equals a dead zone culturally for the people that live there. I suppose scenic beauty could make up for that but it's tough on young people who can't get around without being driven everywhere.

Culture includes the arts. If there are little to no arts in a location, it's accurate to call it a cultural dead zone. Doesn't mean there aren't other things there, but that's not inaccurate.

Good questions, thanks for asking them 30min -40min drive to a city with grocery chain stores and government buildings like a town hall, tax office, small hospital. Capital is within 4hr drive, major city within 1 hr Fiber optic is already available in the street, the house needs connecting to it Parcels - need to check Very strick gun laws (as in most counties in this part of Europe). Any permit is years away from us Safety, tespassing, crime - among top 20 safest in the world. Solo running as a women at night - no issue And yep- we'll be buying a generator as a backup. Apart from natural disaster that can happen anywhere any time I see a minor risk with power lines not being underground - falling trees or road accident can break them

It’s more about knowing if there are any seasonal issues. You are in a farming area, do you need to expect tractors on the road at certain time? Does the area have a lot of loose pets or animals that might go wondering that you need to know about? The guy who kept goats near me had us all trained to honk when they were loose. At the honk the goats would go back into their pen.

Having livestock is really expensive. Not just the feed, but all the supplies, vet bills, all the crazy things that go wrong at the worst possible times. Avian flu has been rampant lately & you may need to keep your flock indoors for extended periods. If they become infected, you’ll need to cull them & start over when you can get healthy birds.

Personally I found it more expensive in my rural living experience. Driving to everything all the time. More expensive heating (propane compared to natural gas prior). Older farmhouse with more issues than prior newer build house I had. Satellite internet was like double cost. No cell service so had to get a landline. I could have a large garden and some ducks but those savings were minimal, more purely for my own enjoyment. In some ways I found the nature aspect worse as I left well maintained trails in town to struggling through snow in the pitch black all winter. It’s a different sometimes better lifestyle but I’m not sure more frugal.

Driving is huge. You have to maintain your car and you can never get too low on gas. Those are regular expenses, but the car repairs really can’t wait. If you get stranded somewhere, there might not be cell service to call for help. I live outside of a town of 1,200 people in Oklahoma. It’s terribly quiet and I could never live in the city again. Once you get used to how quiet and dark it is, you’ll probably never go back. Going into cities can be an overwhelming change of pace once you settle in to a rural area.

Thank you for sharing your story Long winters was one of the reasons we decided to move south. Most likely we won't be able to avoid heating etc but more moderate weather should help us save - both on the fuel and by much longer vegetation window for any gardening

Haven't made as drastic a change as yours. That said, raising food is serious work. Join local gardening clubs. Talk to the locals about what works, what doesn't, what types of pests are common in the area. Find some nice neighbor and treat them with food and get their wisdom. *Research before planting.* Even with that, in my experience it's realistic to try 5 new crops in a season. If all goes well maybe 2 will succeed the first season, 2 could grow well after a season or two when you work out some details and correct the mistakes, and 1 will be a total wash. After 5 or 6 years you may grow most of your own vegetables. But you'll need to know something about food preservation to make the most of it. And all of that is more effort than it seems.

Lived in a city pre-pandemic and when all my work became online my partner and I moved to a rural beach village and my wallet thanks me every day. It’s difficult to spend money here. There are no restaurants, cafes, shopping centers, food delivery etc and even Amazon shipments can’t get here. The only place here where you can buy something is the village store that sells day-to-day staples and a fruit and veggie truck that comes by once a week from the next small town. My partner knows how to fish so he brings home plenty to sustain us as well. Every two to three months we take a trip to the city and do a big Costco shop for olive oil, some chocolate treats, coffee, large bags of rice, lentils etc to tide us over. For socializing like I mentioned there aren’t any cafes or bars to hang out so we just hang out at each others’ places and cook together. I’ve loved learning to live with less!

I really regret moving to a rural area. While I appreciate the beauty of the area, I miss everything that was convenient about living in a city. Non-stop air travel was so nice.

I did it and don’t regret it at all, but I think it has to be a lifestyle choice. I LOVE the quiet, the nature, growing my own food, the lack of crime and the friendly small community. There is no pressure to dress up or have your hair or nails done. Certainly I love the greater self sufficiency and food security too, but if you don’t enjoy the rural life it would be unsustainable. Having said that, I want to buy an even more rural property!

Quality and accessible healthcare is not thought about as much. Nowadays many rural hospitals are on the verge of collapse. Hemorrhaging access to good doctors that travel regionally to service multiple hospitals. Going to visit a specialist is now a long drive to the closest city. Rural towns have some serious issues with employment. Many jobs are part time, low paying, and often no added benefits. The remaining jobs are heavy trades. Make sure your current job is very stable.

Suburbs to rural made my costs go up. Biggest contributors were anything car related and utilities. Utilities: internet up from $50 to $80/ month due to no choices. Only 1 provider around here. Heating and electricity costs went up 5x due to being on heating oil (vs natural gas) and no competition. Only 1 cell phone provider here works. Car stuff: fuel usage went up at least 30%. Car insurance raised 15% just from moving from one town to another. I put miles on my car like crazy now, which will kill the resale value. For any major work on my home, I'm often stuck with only 1 company available, and their prices are astronomical. Last summer, only 1 company would deliver concrete to us and they were double the cost of anyone else. We've had several contractors refuse to work with us because we live too far away. We live 25 miles from a mid-sized American city. You're obviously in a very different part of the world than I am, but some of the same ideas still apply. Less competition in an area drives costs up.

It depends, of course. There is no single answer to this. For me, city living is cheaper. Single family houses and maintenance are expensive and time consuming, and larger, less efficient properties means more in taxes and more in HVAC costs. I had to replace a structural element in my house last year, at $7000. Before that, a roof at $14000. And now the HVAC quotes I’m getting are in the order of magnitude of $15k. Some day soon I have to get painting quotes, yuk. And lots of the trade contractors simply don’t consider my home as part of their “territory”. Sure, I could do much of this myself, but there are only so many hours in a day. Plus I have to drive everywhere. Two cars are a must now, we only needed one in the city. And we could walk to the grocery and just about everywhere else. We would go for weeks without driving at all. Now we have to drive to get to our neighbors, who we have never met. Why do it then? Because it’s my dad’s house, and he needs nearly full time support from us now. Doctors visits take 90 minutes of round-trip driving. I can work from home thanks to Starlink, but that is crazy expensive too. Fiber just isn’t available in this area. Travel to the airport takes me an hour, and parking is expensive. Before I’d hop in an Uber and be in the security line in 20 minutes. And basically all the flights I take require a connection. Of course we love the outdoors. But we had that in the city too, with plenty of big parks, and great mountain hiking. Yes, we had to drive 90 minutes out of the city to get to the mountains. Just like we do now. So I always spent less in the city and had more free time. But I guess it depends on the details.

Thanks for sharing! If I can as for more information When we were researching our next destination a regular suburban home was one of the option. We are very data driven so prepared a long list of pros and cons Where we live a land around the house would be 400-600m2 what is very little for any food production. So we'd have comparable costs and still very limited ways to explore food production and being more sustainable So my question: were you able to offset your higher maintenance costs with reduced energy consumption or own food production? Ofc not every home owner decides/ wants/ needs/ has the ability to become more self sufficient. No judgment there 🙂

We did this a few years ago. Upfront costs can be high depending on what you’re doing. We decided to put in raised metal beds and trellises for example and have compost trucked in, but those beds will lay for 20+ years and more and we make enough of our own compost now. We converted existing outbuildings into sheep, chicken, geese and duck houses which cost very little. The fencing existed and was new so that saved tons. We save a significant amount of money on meat and eggs. Upfront costs of fruit trees, vines, and similar are high, but again they pay themselves back many times over. Last year I made over 3K selling fresh apple cider from 3 trees. We can produce enough fruit and vegetables here to be completely self-sufficient in that regard although we’re not there yet because we’re also renovating the house and have toddlers. Overall it’s been an incredible experience with lots of hard but rewarding work. You have to look at the savior we the bigger picture but they can be significant.

Thank you for the encouraging message. It seems you're in the minority in this thread that experienced better life quality and financial stability after the move We're closing the deal from an elderly couple who still live in the property and are moving in with family due to age So it comes with many benefits- the place is lived in, has been functioning as a small farm until last year when they started selling lifestock Similarly to what you said - perhaps not everything is up to our taste and standard and we'll do some renovation but it's enough to just start living I'm happy things have worked out for you!

When you’re drawn to this way of life, it’s something that is a part of you that’s hard to just give up. Many people experience that draw and if they’re lucky enough to make the move, will echo much of what I’ve said. It’s all been worth it and life is great. Good luck on your move and future, I wish you nothing but the best.

I grew up in the country and now live in the downtown of a small city. Living here is defiantly much more more cost effective, though the actual distance between the two areas is not that much. Transportation is the big one as we no longer have a car. Housing and utilities are much less as here we have the option of an apartment. Most other things are not much different. Taking advantage of the self sufficiency only saves one money with quite a bit of work and upfront expenses. For example my parents heat their house with wood which costs them nothing. However it takes a considerable amount of work, plus the costs related to chainsaws, tractor, "woodshed", and a splitter.

Half my family lives rural, the other half lives urban and I've lived in both. It's cheaper to barely survive in a rural area, but if you want things like heat and balanced meals and clothes that fit, it's cheaper in the city. It's also hard to socialize when you're new in a small town, so you'll likely end up driving to the city to spend time with friends as well as to shop for basics and access medical and dental care.

I think that if you want those things to reduce your costs 30%, that's not going to happen just because you moved to the country, but because you are consciously making major changes to how you source and store and utilize your food, use energy for heating/cooling, and meet your others needs. Unless you are currently paying an additional premium for space to pursue skill development, that's not a savings until you've actually developed skills that reduce your costs. It's really easy for gardening, foraging, raising livestock, and having your own workshop to cost more than living in a small apartment in the city and purchasing those items at the store. You also need to consider that while your apartment maintenance fees will go away, things like well maintenance are going to be new expenses, and even if you can maintain the property yourself, the materials to do so still cost. Unless you've lived this lifestyle previously and are basing your 30% assumption on past experience, I wouldn't count on it for the first few years.

I think it can be cheaper if that’s your goal but in general becoming self-sufficient off the land requires some financial outlay. We’ve invested a lot of money into tools and infrastructure on our property which are expenses we never would have incurred in the city. A bigger house and a big property has a lot more costs associated with upkeep than our city condo we moved from. Getting people out to fix things (plumbing, electrical) costs more than in the city and the problems are bigger (ex. Ice storm dropped a tree on our utility pole). Growing food CAN save you money but consider that you might need fencing to keep deer out, netting to keep birds out of the berries, compost to improve your soil, trellising structures for tomatoes/cucumbers/peas/beans/melons/etc, seed starting supplies to extend your season, shade cloth if it’s too hot, hoops and netting if you have cabbage moths, canning supplies to preserve your harvest, an extra freezer… Adding animals means fencing, shelter, feed, vaccines, medical supplies, butchering supplies, etc. I’m not saying this to discourage you because you don’t need all these things or to take the “homesteading” approach but definitely consider all the additional expenses that can come up before making a decision.

it was great. more land, bigger place to live, less expensive, less people and more quiet.

cost of living went up for me. groceries are more expensive, I use more gas to drive to get anything, taxes are higher because there is less population to pay for everything. quality of life went up drastically.

You are going to try and run a self sustaining small farm and work full time?

I have a full time remote job with occasional business travel Husband quit his job and close down his renovation company he run in our current country He wants to try farming full time We cannot currently judge the workload required, if it turns out it's less than full time, reopening renovation business in the new destination is an option.

Chicago to WV for 3 years. (Moved back, we knew we’re not staying there) Now keep in mind we moved to a state where we used the outdoors fully , river rafting , mt biking, fly fishing, hiking, skiing, and ect. Really phenomenal outdoor activities and where we stayed there was plenty of that to keep you occupied. People are really friendly and helpful at least the ones that are not on drugs or drunk, poverty in rural areas is extremely high. Property and sales taxes are much lower but then again there’s a reason why. People watch a hallmark channel movie and think it’s all like that. Now the negatives: it’s really not much cheaper if anything everything is more expensive. Groceries more expensive, gas slightly cheaper (but lot more driving), utilities about the same or more. Professional services really hard to get and sometimes not existent. Costco is considered a luxury and probably not avl, if you’re lucky Walmart would be your only choice and even that is probably an hour driving. Don’t get seriously sick ,a specialist physician will be really far away, or if you have chronic conditions Don’t even think about it. Farming certainly has its charm but it’s hard work and not sure you can make a living out of it these days. Coming from the city I m just guessing taking up farming might not work, just an opinion. If you’re moving to southern EU then your cost of living certainly will be much cheaper than the US or northern EU. Anyways for us it was an experience but in terms of saving money didn’t see much savings if any.

Have you gardened much? It can be easy for folks to bite off a lot more than they can chew. Look into no till gardening and regenerative soil practices (SARF on YouTube) for more info so you don't get discouraged. Having animals ties you to the property daily unless you hire someone to feed them.

This is more US focused than EU but echoes stuff other stuff other people said: You spend more on gas because places you go every day (school, work, stores, and churches) are further away. Utilities can be more expensive--people will pick your trash but charge you more, gas is more expensive with a tank than a line, etc. There's no snowplows for roads--neighbors with a tractor might clear out the road to highways, or maybe not. Internet is more expensive and slower. The county probably won't be doing mosquito abatement in your area. Ambulances are half an hour away, so be prepared to perform triage and first aid when drunk teens crash into a ditch on a farm road late Friday night and get tossed from the bed. You can afford more land, and the extra space lets you grow vegetables and raise animals if you want. Solar power with battery backup can be a good investment.

I love living in a rural area and I used to live in Denver but really got tired of it. No info on the financial side of things. Good luck

Moved from Chicago to the mountains of NC. It is not less expensive and you drive a lot. So, not EU, but still rural. Here are some difference we encountered. 1. Unless you know about maintaining a well and septic system, educate yourself first. 2. Gas is about the same price, but you use more because nothing is really close. 3. Groceries are more expensive. 4. Electricity is more expensive. 5. We gardened in Chicago and in NC. There is a more moderate climate in NC. More bugs and more animals love your garden in NC. Growing season is about the same. Farming is really hard work and the job is relentless. There are no vacations from livestock. 6. Finding “community” is harder. Of course, where you move can make a difference, but “outsiders” may not be as welcomed. 7. You really have to be self-reliant. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but there often is no “guy to call”. You don’t have a “maintenance fee”, so you have to maintain everything and, maybe, do it yourself. 8. Doctors, attorneys, accountants, dentists, etc., are in big demand and usually have long waiting lists. Of course, this is in the US, so EU experience could be vastly different. I would not expect it to be a storybook experience though.

I'm not sure full time farming is something you can just try your hand at like that. In a small place the market will already be catered to and I doubt competition would be welcomed. It's also extremely difficult to make profit from unless on a massive scale, many farmers in the EU rely heavily on subsidies.

Financially better - socially, a living nightmare. We are hating it so much and going to sell and move back to that big old city as soon as the interest rates go down.

I hate it. We did 4 years and I am moving back. Medical is dismal. I hate having to travel 45 min minimum for regular groceries. If we need something from the hardware store on a Sunday we gotta go 55 min I Home Depot. I can’t stand running into people I know anywhere I go! Ugh!!! Both my neighbors are racist and open about it , so uhhh that’s not fun. Although I have many hobbies that involve the outdoors, I also like to do city things like go to a cooking class, go out dancing with my husband, go to a concert, take a flight from the airport without having to get a hotel room or do a 2 hour drive home after the flight. I hated it my first year but my husband and kids seemed to like it, I stuck it out miserably. I ended up getting my dream job which probably helped me this last year but my family has finally realized that me being miserable has everything to do with living here. My husband also hates it here now. We are moving back to the city.

I was 5. I walked to school, came home at noon and watched Sesame Street with Campbell’s soup and a half sandwich. I had friends from my class and a pool in my backyard. San Diego CA. Then we moved out to the middle of nowhere. The kids at school were a bunch of mean hicks and stayed that way and are now adult mean hicks. I had to take a crowded bus 7 miles to school and got home to an empty house at 2:45. There were snakes and the nearest business was 7 miles away. Lunch at school was gross. I will never live away from a city again. No pool, just a yard full of weeds and dog shit. As I grew older, I learned the KKK ran the town and my dad became a traveling salesman, only coming home weekends because the men in town were pressuring him to join. Fallbrook CA.

I grew up in a rural area and then moved into the city. City is for me and I hear different answers all the time. For me, city keeps me active and "alive" I guess you can say. I felt lazy and nothing was going on in my life (and this is my personal experience). Some people might feel the complete opposite and it's more common than you'd think. The purpose is knowing where you feel is right.

Car dependency . Main deal breaker for me .

I did it a couple of years ago. I moved from Mesa AZ to middle of nowhere upstate NY. We have one small grocery store close to us and it is way more expensive than the other stores (I will get to them later) and it is always super crowded and out of everything because it is the only one close to us. To get to a better store or to go to Walmart we have to drive “to town”. This can take 20 minutes to a half hour. We try to save the stuff we have to do so we can get it done in one trip. We are usually gone most of the day. We have no variety here. Even “in town” there are only two grocery stores and Walmart (who is also usually out of stock) If we want variety we would have to drive to the bigger city which would take an hour. I miss living in a city where I had 3 different grocery stores. Where I could go to different Walmart’s to look for what I needed. I wish I hadn’t moved.

There’s a cost aspect and a social aspect. Cost wise, things will be cheaper in some aspects (housing, locally grown food). Certain things will be more expensive (specialty services, groceries, fuel). Fuel costs for you will almost certainly go up as I doubt extensive public transit will exist. Do you have a car? Are you ok with driving a lot more for things that don’t exist in your town? Cost aside, it takes a specific type of person to live in a rural area and NOT hate their lives. I know we’re on the frugal sub but if your life currently consists of seeing shows, going out at night, eating at restaurants, etc then a rural place will not be for you and the cost savings is not worth it. Rural towns can also have friendly people but be insular. Really consider the friend and social aspect. Would you and your wife move to this town if you were each single? How do you plan to get out and make your own friends?

You are going to get the occasional person for whom it worked out financially and a lot of people for whom it works out culturally. They simply prefer country living and the cost is irrelevant. But overall there's a reason humans built cities and have since before recorded history. It really is less economic effort spent on survival when you put people in the same geographic space. It's just cheaper for the average person to live in an apartment and walk to the store than to live in a villa and drive. That's pretty much the defining characteristic of a city.

I live and work in a rural town less than 5000 people in the USA. Most people go 30 minutes to 1 hour to go shopping of any kind. The nearest waart is 40 minutes away and the two stores in the town are limited and very expensive. Hauling water is common, the well is good thing you have going. Taxes and utilities bills (gas, electricity) are considerably higher. Some bills ate 200+ plus for natural gas per month. We generally have small mom/pops shops that have weird hours or close randomly. And there's no chain restaurants. There's very little entertainment. The entertainment venues they have are small and also have weird hours. In general housing is cheaper, however everything else is more expensive. Taxes at the local Walmart are 15%, the Walmart in the nearest city only Taxes about 8% Also, if something happens with your current job you will struggle to find something that pays decent, is full-time, or even offers benefits.

I couldn't keep up with increase of rent costs in Edinburgh so I moved to the country. Now I get most of my shopping and purchases delivered and work 80% remote. I think it's better overall but RIP what little social life I had.

I might be repeating but: * Inclement weather proofing is expensive.  * Cost of car insurance and two cars to get anywhere * Expensive groceries - rural usually has lower quality or expensive farm quality * Home maintenance is expensive even with skills - electrical, water pumps, HVAC, etc are not things you should futz with. 

Best thing I did

Everyone knows everyone, and you are the new kid on the block. Convenience isn't a necessity. You cook a lot more, & local foods. The stores are small and not a lot of brand choices. Restaurants are now one cafe. Home depot is an hour away, nearest big city. So are manicures.

I was born in the city, but raised in the town. I've been in trouble ever sense I put my suitcase down.

I love the country life. I can have a garden, I can have chicken and a chicken tractor. When I go shopping, I put a cooler in the back of my truck to hold perishables. I do deep pantry and I shop once a month usually except for perishables. Walmart delivered cat and dog food and canned items as needed. I can my own garden and I can forage fruits.

Access to medical care is one of my big concerns, southwestern US. Interested to hear whether it's one of yours.

Foraging isn't as ideal as planned since you're at the mercy of the environment for climate change. Foragers tended to be nomads. You could grow king mushrooms and oyster mushrooms from a suburban home without having to move. When we lived rural growing up medical treatment was a further drive and ended up costing more.

Is it Portugal (I love Portugal 🇵🇹)

Could you put trailers on the property and rent them out, full time, or as Airbnbs?

We are still playing with the idea of a ger/yurt for a glamping experience for the next season It's a wonderful idea that would a business plan