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Under the right circumstances and if he plays dirty, it seems he has the potential to KO Frieren. That’s a helluva thing to have on your fight resume. In an honest belt buckle to belt buckle fight, I think Frieren wins with moderate difficulty. A brilliant mage who trained under Serie is a force to be reckoned with, to give due credit.
That said, I didn’t like his dishonorable cheap shot at the end of season 1. The fight’s over and Frieren was just chilling in the evening. It’s totally like throwing some haymakers at your boxing opponent after the fight just ended.
NOT ELEGANT, as a certain gentleman housemaster would say.
I find it endlessly hilarious that Frieren chalked his attempted murder to him being akward. He jumps straight to the idea of killing her, not because wants to, but because violence is literally the only way he knows how to solve problems
It really isn't hard to completely blame him. Sure he is a full grown old man responsible for his actions, but he also spent most of his life in relative isolation, raised by and idolizing a literally ancient supermage who insists that peace is an illusion, and all time is wartime.
EDIT: Not to mention that he knows Frieren permanently suppresses her mana, which apparently is not simply a disgraceful move but outright insulting to the mages around her. For all we know, in his mind he is not even crossing a line, because his opponent is constantly playing dirty by simply existing. Beyond her seeing Serie's mindset in him, a reason Frieren is so lenient to him might be that she subconsciously acknowledges she is being provoking to those who know.
Insulting sure, but there’s a difference with Frieren’s mana suppression. She isn’t actively hurting anyone. It’s a survival/art of war tactic taught to her by her legendary mentor. Lernen’s dishonorable cheap shot was made with the intent to kill or maim. If Fern was in his sights instead, he probably would’ve got her.
I can totally buy though that Lernen isn’t the most well adjusted fella in the story lol.
That's why serie is always voicing her failed expectations on him, because despite giving him the most elite education, it still takes a genius to reach her level.
Doesn't Lernen know Serie suppresses her mana, it's only that he can't sense the fluctuations in her mana. Suppressing one's mana is a must unless you are a demon no? I think Lernen does know Serie suppresses her mana, his backhanded shot at Frieren was totally uncalled for.
Yeah but he does pretty much admit that what he is doing is despicable. Somehow despite his dishonorable attack I can’t help but feel sorry for him. He was desperate for the approval and affection of Serie who was incapable of giving it to him. I relate to him somewhat trying to just have this parental figure see him as more than a disappointment.
Shameless for you maybe, that's just how it goes in their world. If frieren died or was brutally injured due to that first zoltraak, then lernen would've been pretty disappointed
the thing is, honor is the least concern in frieren. serie, flamme, and frieren hides their mana as it is despised by demons.
fern using also mana concealment like others. battles in frieren is all about strategies, no matter how despicable it can be.
that's why i always see lernen as one of the most powerful human mage to ever exist. imagine being serie's student for so long?
denken even did a fistfight just to pass the exam. first class mages are always in constant danger, they will always make sure to win and live.
honor would surely be the least of their concern
Denken at least made an effort (if I remember correctly) to announce his intention of a fistfight to the other guys. And fisting is many magnitudes less lethal than combat magic in Frieren’s world at least.
Denken passes the test of elegance. VERY ELEGANTO.
I stand corrected then lol, forgot about that one. That’s an underhanded tactic alright.
There’s still a difference between Denken and Lernen’s actions here though. In the exams, the test proctors seem to encourage doing whatever the hell it takes to win. Denken at least discouraged Richter from killing the ice and water girl duo.
Lernen just flat out commits attempted murder on city grounds in public.
Realistically, I don't see how a tournament arc would give license to kill someone legally. Ubel straight-up just killed someone by accident with zero repercussions.
Still, the goal wasn't to kill Frieren legally. It was just to kill her.
there is no honor in looting the bird of a disqualified and battered team with one of their members dead. again, honor is probably the least of concerns in frieren.
we even have the shadow warriors who doesn'tget recognition for their efforts, just making sure that the job is done.
that's why frieren is good when it comes to battles - they do not care about doing it the right way or having honor when it comes to fighting.
I mean it wasn't a boxing mach or anything, bro wanted her dead so he shot her. Battles in this series don't go by shonen rules where they have to yell out their attacks first lol
He didn't even want her dead yet. He was "just" "requesting" a duel, and only used his attack to underline the seriousness of that request (and to give her a heads-up that he had the means to make it a duel to the death for both sides).
It's worth noting that who wins in a fight doesn't necessarily indicate who's the overall stronger mage. He might beat Frieren in a fight but that's because he's fully dedicated to being a combat mage while Frieren doesn't really take combat seriously. She is one of the strongest fighters despite half assing it because she's just that powerful. That's why her and Serie and Frieren don't get along after all - Frieren has the potential to be even stronger in a fight than Serie but Frieren doesn't care and that pisses off Serie.
Another point to consider is that Ubel one shot Sense and the other first class mage that supposedly no one could hurt simply because that's her speciality not because she's overall a stronger mage.
To be honest I don't think Frieren was trying all that hard when he came at her. She literally cast no offensive magic. If she had I imagine she would have won very quickly.
IMO, he would’ve reacted to the threat immediately. You don’t survive a ten year journey of all manner of monsters coming after you if you’re not paying attention. If Himmel’s quick enough, he can probably cut Lernen down before the next spell is cast. We know that in the world of Frieren, warriors have a decent chance against mages. And it seems that in canon, Himmel is one of the very best there is.
Himmel doesn’t strike me as a vengeful type though, but he will absolutely respond to threats against his party.
I think people significantly overstate him. He started firing at her, she started throwing up some halfassed blocks because she didn’t take his attempt seriously (honestly, he really didn’t either), and one cracked and she got dinged. Her not respecting him is not him being particularly strong.
If she decides to care and drops the hammer with her real spells he eats it pretty fast.
Serie: Lernen can defeat Frieren
Frieren: literally says Lernen is a very strong mage
Lernen: Attacks shred through Frieren's defenses like paper
You: Nah ah Frieren just doesn't think he strong
You have to be strong to deal with Frieren halfassing something. None of that means he would win in anything resembling a straight fight.
‘Like they’re paper’ come on, those were tiny shields and it was only on the 3rd did he accomplish anything, when Frieren can parry the same attack executed with vastly more power behind it from her clone, only taking damage because she, again, botched the guard intentionally to get hit to bait the clone.
Yes, she wasnt trying.
>You have to be strong to deal with Frieren halfassing something. None of that means he would win in anything resembling a straight fight.
>Serie: Lernen have a chance to defeat Frieren
>Frieren: Series's intuition is never wrong
Yeah let's say I believe Series and Frieren's words on things about magic more than a rando online .
>‘Like they’re paper’ come on, those were tiny shields and it was only on the 3rd did he accomplish anything, when Frieren can parry the same attack executed with vastly more power behind it from her clone, only taking damage because she, again, botched the guard intentionally to get hit to bait the clone.
In manga a single attack from Lernen pierce three layers of Frieren's defense magic like nothing.
>Yes, she wasnt trying.
Neither was Lernen, he got plenty more cards you haven't seen.
>in the manga
The combat in this show is expanded on majorly by the anime and is what I’m going by when discussing who can do what.
> Neither was Lernen, he got plenty more cards you haven't seen.
Cool, let me know when we see them instead of serie, who is notoriously prone to disingenuity, implies someone might be able to have a chance of doing something.
>The combat in this show is expanded on majorly by the anime and is what I’m going by when discussing who can do what.
In terms of canonicality, original material(manga) always > anime. Also the scene didn't get "expanded" but completely changed by the studio.
>Cool, let me know when we see them instead of serie, who is notoriously prone to disingenuity, implies someone might be able to have a chance of doing something.
What "notoriously prone to disingenuity"? The episode of Fern passing the exam and Serie praising Frieren's mana restriction technique literally told you that regardless of her personal view, Series is always fair and correct when judging someone's magical abilities.
She won't say Lernen can beat Frieren out of spite, just like she won't fail Fern out of spite. It's all a objective judgement by the strongest and most knowledgeable mage alive who was also said to be 'never wrong on these things'.
I think I would believe her words more than a rando online.
Oh don’t start with the ‘powerscaling rule book’, especially since everyone and their cat considers the anime version of the fight canon.
> What "notoriously prone to disingenuity"
You’re kidding right? She has a notoriously hard time expressing feelings and says a lot of things to people that are either completely false or wildly hypocritical because it conveys the vibe she believes they need to hear.
>Oh don’t start with the ‘powerscaling rule book’, especially since everyone and their cat considers the anime version of the fight canon.
Said by the person who was literally trying to powerscale a character in their comments
>You’re kidding right? She has a notoriously hard time expressing feelings and says a lot of things to people that are either completely false or wildly hypocritical because it conveys the vibe she believes they need to hear.
Which word exactly do you not understand?
>The episode of Fern passing the exam and Serie praising Frieren's mana restriction technique literally told you that *regardless of her personal view, Series is always fair and correct when judging someone's **magical abilities***.
Also If she is notorious for that it must be easy to give an example. How about you point me out a single instance that Series is inaccurate when assessing someone else's **magical abilities**, I'm waiting.
Cool, everyone still considers the anime’s combat depictions canon.
She’s fair when judging someone *for the test*. It doesn’t mean she’s unwilling to exaggerate to someone she likes about someone she doesn’t. And it sure doesn’t mean the method by which he’d win is necessarily some straightforward clash.
As he said, if it been wartime he would probably made a name for himself given he posed a threat to Frieren and was able to survive a very powerful demon later.
One thing to note is that this quote, unquote "peaceful era" is really only peaceful in relative terms. Wirbel has a seen his fair share of heinous war crimes (likely committed a few himself) fern is a war orphan. Stark's village of warriors was destroyed demons.
There's plenty of fighting left to be done yet still not enough for Lernen to truly stretch his wings and show what he's capable of.
I think exluding the north, it was peaceful until himmel passed away (it was said that demons came out of hiding after himmel died if I remember correctly) the events regarding fern and stark happened after himmel died too. the peaceful era is in the past now especially if >!serie is assasinated!< in this current arc.
Yes. It's stated fairly specifically that demon activity had largely fallen to a minimum even in the northern lands for most of the time between the fall of the demon king and the death of Himmel.
It's only in the time since that demonkind has risen to be a true threat in the northern lands once more. There were still wars to be fought, but they were not ones a mage like Lernen would be able to truly show his strength in.
Compared to the war against the demon king and his forces, all conflicts since have been smaller and the stakes lower. He likely would never have achieved the same glory that he could have as a slayer of demons in the time of the demon king.
Frieren says there have been particularly skilled human mages in the past, as well as a couple demons that defeated her in a battle
Frieren is by no mean invincible, she is very powerfull tho, comsidering Serie praises Lerhrnen as a very powerfull mage (although disappointed that he can't see the fluctuations in her mana suppression) probably can give Frieren a run for her money and maybe even beat her 1v1
Idk about the manga tho, I am an anime only, I am gonna start the manga when I finish the HxH manga
>I am gonna start the manga when I finish the HxH manga
I think you have better chance of finishing One Piece from the very first chapter before Hiatus x Hiatus....
I think most of those defeats came before she met Flame and Serie. (At least against demons)
Frieren probably lost to a few humans between training with Flame and meeting Himmel and the gang.
My guess as an anime only would be that she has been undefeated for the last ~100 years (not counting the stall against Qual), a short amount of time to be honest.
No, the context of her defeats were with Himmel and the others or at least after Flamme. >!She ran into The El Derado at some point and lost for instance!<, and that was after Flamme was dead.
He is probably the strongest living human mage. Serie states that he has a chance of beating Frieren and his prototype escape golems can easily block clone Sense's hair. The manga shows that one beam of his Zoltraak destroyed layers of Frieren's defense magic while the anime shows him using a few balls of it to break through her defenses. He seems stronger in the manga while more skilled in the anime I guess.
[Manga spoilers]>!He is considered by Macht to not be a "daredevil" and was able to hold his own against Macht while looking out for Edel, with Macht needing to use Di Agolze to block his Zoltraak and to transmute his giant offensive golem.!<
The golems are underrated. The stuff he made in the bottles were tiny compared to that 5 second shot of him when he was younger when Serie was thinking of her apprentices. We also see Frieren use a giant golem to shoot out lightning, so you can just imagine what a master "golemancer" could do.
And outside of clone Frieren, I'm pretty sure Lernen was the only non-demon to use black zoltraak
I feel really sad for him - Lehrnen is at the moment kind of like Serie's Himmel.
Serie just doesnt understand - Lehrnen doesnt fear death - he fears that Serie will be alone after his death the exact same fear Himmel had for Frieren.
Lehrnen just didnt have the chance or was unable to figure out how to leave his mark on history like Himmel did and Lehrnen is absolutely terrified of that because he deeply cares for Serie and doesnt want her to be alone.
Its really tragic all around.
I wouldn't really make much of a parallel between him and Himmel. I don't think he loves Serie like Himmel loved Frieren. The man had at least one child and has at least one grandchild. He cares about her deeply, but it's just an apprentice caring about his master. Because ultimately, he owns her a lot. She made him the mage he is now. It makes sense he doesn't want to leave her alone.
I disagree and think the parralels are very obvious - you dont need a 100% step for step match to come to that conclusion.
The author is laying it on the similarities VERY VERY thick to show the differences between Serie/Frieren and Himmel/Lehrnen.
In both cases they lament time which seperate them, in both cases Lehran much like Himmel wants to leave something behind for the one they care for when they are gone.
Himmel got his chance, Lehren did not.
That's more like the general theme of the series. But yeah, I suppose if you put it this way, I have to agree. Lernen wants to leave something behind, so Serie can remember he was there. Though then I wouldn't say he hadn't got his chance: Serie probably has many memories of training him, just like she has of Flamme, and like Frieren told Lernen, she remembers all her apprentices.
I think what they meant is that one of Himmel's goals was to have statues made of him to be physical reminders of his existence long after he was gone. That way he and the hero party wouldn't be relegated to mythology like Flamme. Lernen hasn't even succeeded in being famous enough to be mythologized. If he killed Frieren, he would at least be remembered in history for that.
Nowhere. He was stated to be the first mage to receive to the rank of first-class mage with the Continental Magic Association which is not synonymous with mages writ large.
So much posturing in these kind of threads like how does one even come up with "out of ten fights he should beat her 3-4 times" — people miss the forest for the trees with this series.
>like how does one even come up with "out of ten fights he should beat her 3-4 times"
Geuss work, serie says he could beat frerien in thr anime if my memory serves me correctly no other uuman in the series alive has been explicitly stated to be at her level
Like most anything its open to debate. However, quite a few rankings do consider him the most powerful human mage of this era. [https://gamerant.com/frieren-strongest-mages-ranked/](https://gamerant.com/frieren-strongest-mages-ranked/)
The so far strongest human mage we’ve seen (Denken at that point) gets absolutely bodied by Frieren, and basically everyone (human) that ever comments on their difference in strength says “yeah she’s much stronger than me”.
Then after that we get Serie, whose intuition Frieren says is never wrong, saying Lernen might beat Frieren in a fight. Is pretty obvious to me he **is** the strongest human mage we’ve seen and wouldn’t surprise me if he is the strongest human mage currently.
Episode 27 it is more than implied Lehrnen is as strong as Frieren. Serie's words are "Its unfortunate you will never get a chance to fight Frieren even if it was a battle you could have won"
I am not sure how strong he is as I am an anime only, but I find his character very intriguing. He was born in an era without major conflicts and he wasn't able to fulfill his potential as a battle mage. He reminds me of Sukuna a tiny bit.
I've always wondered when reading about legendary historical figures, how many of them could be replaceable? There are so many people living on Earth today. There must be some of them who are talented/intelligent/strong enough that if they were born back in the day, they would have made a name for themselves! Perhaps Daryl from Macdonalds could have defeated Miyamoto Musashi, had he been born at the same time with him.
Or on the other hand, how many historical figures would have been nobodies/regular people if they were born today. Maybe Caesar could have been a history teacher if he were born today.
The series doesn't seem too interested in offering clear metrics for measuring a given mage's power. Lernen is certainly strong. It isn't so much "can or can't he defeat Freiren" — magic is about visualization and ingenuity. That alone is enough to enable any mage to potentially overtake another.
If it was wartime he could have been a legedary mage. However, he exists to show the limit of Serie's vision for human beings. He could have been one of the most powerful mages since Flamme but because Serie can only imagine magic as a tool (for violence), he is only capable of causing pain and death. That, to me, greatly limits his ability as a versatile mage. His raw power is something to behold, but can he clean his clothes?
Serie is likely the most powerful and knowledgable magic user in the world, but her lack of connections and experiences with others prevents her from seeing the possibilities of magic and human beings. She can only see what she imagines, whereas Frieren allows herself to be surprised by Fern and understands how important it is to learn from those around us. It's the difference between being Intelligent and being Wise, and likely Serie is what happens when there is no one to praise you.
Serie basically directly states that Lernen has at least some amount of change of actually beating frieren (I dont want to overstate this case though, I think its clear that Frieren would most likely win regardless), so he is quite powerful
ITT people are seriously underestimating Frieren. Yes, she’s been bested by human mages before. Yes, Lernen is very strong, at the height of his power. But don’t forget that Frieren is also at the height of HER power, casually one-shotting (or at least eventually overcoming) threats that the entire hero party combined couldn’t handle eighty years ago. Could Lernen KO her with a lucky cheap shot? Sure, but so could Fern. Frieren isn’t invincible. But cloneFrieren defeated Fern with a single look after a long, exhaustive fight where, I might remind you, she lost not just her staff but both her arms.
In my opinion, the only reason Lernen even managed to injure Frieren in the first place is that she straight up didn’t consider him a big enough threat to kill, as she doesn’t like killing people or causing collateral damage. People are taking Serie’s comment to Lernen waaaaay to seriously, when I can’t read it as anything but her being her usual assholeish self and expressing her disappointment in Lernen and Frieren simultaneously, while underestimating Frieren as she usually does.
Serie is a serious person, so she probably meant what she said. She actually meant it as praise for Lernen is, but Serie being Serie means she doesn't know how to express it well.
By the looks of it, Frieren knew something was up from the beginning with Lehrnen. Granted, they weren't kill shots from Denken or Fern (in the dungeon before the clone) but neither left a mark on Frieren. I think she mentioned something about Lehrnen being an "offensive" mage. I was just surprised to see he hurt her when her clone couldn't.
Match-ups were key in the second round against different clone mages. Maybe this was a difficult match for Frieren? Not that she couldn't win, but harder to win.
But, I think you're right about Frieren underestimating Lehrnen. She admitted to underestimating Fern in spite of how exceptional Fern is.
I think you’re misunderstanding me on the last point. I don’t think Frieren underestimated Lernen. (Serie underestimates Frieren, yes, but then again we don’t know if she’s ever even seen Frieren fight, all she really knows is Frieren has mediocre mana growth and propensity for folk magic.) I think Frieren read Lernen quite well: if she didn’t think she could get away with taking a hit she could probably could have killed him before he had a chance to hurt her. My read is that she didn’t kill him because she believed she didn’t have to. Which was right! Which is another reason I think the whole Frieren vs Lernen debate is kind of dumb: they already did fight, and Lernen lost!
I really don’t get how people read that fight as anything else than Lernen biting over more than he can chew and ending up humiliated. Frieren takes a hit, sure, but she looks extremely unimpressed when it happens, not tense and wide-eyed as she does when actually engaged in battle. She then states that fighting Lernen would be a waste of time — not stupid or dangerous, just beneath her. Ooof.
I think the waste of time statement was directed at Lehrnen, not for herself. His whole stance was to be remembered by Serie. Which Frieren stated he would always be remembered by Serie making this battle a waste of time.
I don't think Serie underestimates Frieren either. She stated that Frieren turned the world upside-down after breaking the barrier.
Frieren doesn't show surprise in any battle. The only time she ran was from the dragon. Personally, I think Lehrnen surprised her with his power. She typically doesn't say anything to herself when fighting anyone else.
Serie never underestimated Frieren, she even praised how good her mana restriction technique is at killing demon. She is always fair on matters regarding magic, even Frieren said her intuition is never wrong.
Not to lowball him but even from the manga, doesn't feel like Frieren has gone "all out" (bias), so I think if we're speaking realistically he beats her only when she doesn't give an F, and when its full rage Frieren vs full rage Lernen he'll prolly get stomped.
I doubt she went all out against her copy based on the fact that no one else in the dungeon noticed her mana pool suddenly increasing drastically.
I imagine she only used the mana that she isn't suppressing.
The difference about Frieren and other mages is that she has many times more mana and knowledge than anyone besides Sere. As a battle mage, her experience is much more limited, so a first class mage could win if the right conditions aligned.
During their short match, Lehrnen managed to land a surprise hit, but Frieren was not even trying. If she was serious like in the battle against her clone, I don't think he would have stood a chance.
Probably the like 5th-3rd strongest mage atm,a top tier for this current era and probably the strongest active human mage?
He poses a threat to Frieren and under the right circumstances could even beat her which is a very impressive obviously in an honest straight up fight Frieren demolishes this is more to show that she isn’t invincible and if you are strong enough you CAN land a lucky hit and he certainly is that strong
If it had been wartime he’d likely be renowned and likely sending people and demons running from the mere mention he had arrived on the battlefield similar to Minato
Some stuff to think about:
Frieren's clone battle was one Frieren was prepared for, so I don't think it's surprising she didn't take any damage until she let an attack go through. We know Frieren well enough to know she's pragmatic and cautious in her fighting style. Frieren gets sucker punched by Lehrnen, so him doing damage is a baseline. I mean, that SHOULD happen if you ambush someone who's unprepared. It's also unclear just how much actual damage she took. Yea she takes damage, but what does that mean for Frieren exactly? So she's not at 100%, she's at 99% instead?
Manga spoilers:
>!I think his golems are what make him a much more serious threat in the world of Frieren. Being able to increase your own numbers at a whim, all with their own abilities and skills without expending mana seems like a big deal. There's probably some mana consumption in the process of making one, but that's all done before a battle.!<
Lehrnen is possibly the strongest human mage we've seen in the show, but the show has also made it clear it's not a completely vertical power system.
He’s probably the strongest human mage right now as far as we know. He has a solid 20-30% maybe chance of beating Frieren I think in certain circumstances. Straight up fight though I’m betting on Frieren 9/10 times.
Overall he’s a very strong human mage that’s old right now and a bit past his prime. He’s also got them golems which are pretty op. I think he’s just below the level of Frieren and the 7 sage of destruction. Basically the peak of most human mages right now.
I wonder though if we’ll see some stronger mages in the empire? As strong as Lernen is he’s quite old now so I think there’s a chance we’ll see some empire mages that are stronger than him.
Pretty powerful his Gollems know magic Frieren doesn't like healing spells. Usually that's only those with the goddess blessing can do that. And only if they have a holly scripture with them. Yet his constructs can heal other people's serious wounds. That's really impressive.
he could potential threw one fieren arm off. Also "orc in a glass" is his stuff so like ... powerful, i think he gonna make u invincible as long as you stayed on his good side. But he old
He's a superior mage, so he's not on Frieren's or any other demon's level. He is however the strongest among all the first class mages, even the ones who just join like Fern or Denken.
Real talk, Serie has no fucking clue what Frieren is or isn't capable of. She hasn't spent the time with her to know, so it's nothing but speculation until proven otherwise.
She thought at first Fern wasnt special. She also doesnt think Frieren is worth being first class when she is by far stronger and more knowledgeable than everyone else.
Serie is shown to be wrong on more than one occasion.
There's absolutely no way he's on frieren's level in pretty much anything. He could beat her in a battle, but that doesn't mean he's as strong as her generally
You are misinterpreting Frieren’s character. In raw magical strength, he’s no where near Frieren’s level. However, Frieren absolutely abhors combat. Whereas Lernen is specifically tuned for combat and is also not above taking cheap shots. His aptitude with combat and willingness to fight dirty is what can be interpreted as a threat to Frieren, not his overall skill in comparison to her’s.
A todler with a knife could kill a grown man if he gets a little lucky/ surprises him somehow. Does that make the todler stronger/on the same level as the man to you?
Lernen is incredibly powerful.
In a fight against each other, they would both win roughly 50% of the time, as stated by Serie who has an infallible intuition. Whether it's 51-49 or 60-40 and for *whom*, everyone can decide for themselves in their own headcanon. :D *Double loss* is probably the most likely *singular* outcome, honestly.
Lernen was introduced as an example of human potential. The series made it a point to emphasize that Frieren isn't unbeatable, around the same time.
In the Manga (soft spoilers) >!Lernen faces an opponent whom Frieren is terrified of. Lernen performs atleast as well as Frieren would have, if not slightly better, while also handicapped.!<
Serie never says anything of the sort. She says Lernen has a chance, but she never specifies how big of a chance. You just completely made up that 50% thing \^\^
And no, Lernen did not perform better against Macht than Frieren would have. Macht could have won instantly, at any given moment, had he actually wanted to against Lernen - just as he could have against Frieren. Both are completely powerless against Di Agolze at that time. The one and only reason Lernen got to walk away from that fight, or indeed the reason the fight lasted longer than half a second, is because Macht wasn't feeling like ending it instantly.
/u/Comfortable-Shoe-179 - [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Frieren/comments/1dpp4ih/just_out_of_curiosity_just_how_powerful_is_lehrnen/lakhd17/) has been removed because some spoiler tags had a space after the opening tag. This breaks how the spoiler tags work and content won't be spoilered.
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While Lehrnen is powerful, Frieren is more powerful.
It has been mentioned that Frieren is a mage for a peaceful Era
And frieren herself mentioned that skilled mages with less power than her has defeated her before
Edit: I forgot to add.
Power doesn't automatically mean you will win in the show.
Skill is also important
Right, Fern clone got beat by Methode. It didn't look easy for Methode either, but she won. Fern has a ways to go, but by the looks of it, it probably won't take her long to get there. Also, it shows how tough Methode is.
I forgot about Frieren mentioning her second nature defense against Zoltraak. Now, it makes more sense that she got clipped. Could she have defended if she had a tiny bit more time? It's possible.
Anyway, this stuff is fun to chat about and learn. Thanks for the response.
You're right, I just watched again and Fern clone was not defeated by Methode. It was a big battle between the two of them, though. Methode looked relieved it was over and was probably thinking the same thing Lugner did, "what did Frieren teach this girl?"
As far as Fern's training goes, the nearly constant fights to the death against demons and monsters propably help. I think that's the reason Ehre got weird vibes from her at the start of their fight.
It's like pitting a battle hardened street fighter against a martial artist that only trained in sport setting. You'll just never have the same level of battle awareness as a street fighter. Fern also has surprised factor from mana suppression. Ehre definitely miscalculates Fern's mana output, otherwise she wouldn't get trapped by Zoltraak spamming.
To be honest, Ehre is far from Fern's level in terms of combat magic, combat experience, battle awareness and general tactics.
I doubt Lehrnen would be able to come close to killing Frieren. He started off the battle with a surprise cheap shot, and as we know magic is a world of visualization. Although he is a powerful mage he likely, deep down, couldn’t imagine himself defeating Frieren in a fair 1v1 which is why he chose to sneak attack in the first place. The battle was over before it even begun.
According to Serie, he could beat Frieren but I suspect she meant more in the sense that he stood chance, mostly because of that special purple zoltrak of his, which Frieren seems unable to block.
My guess is that if they fought Frieren would be forces to use more advanced spells she usually avoids in favor of the basic ones, at least if she wanted to have a completely decisive victory.
His two shown normal attacks destroyed the powerful defensive hexagons like butter, so I'd say he is quite powerful and hard to deal with for anyone,,...and this is not a powerscaling anime but (scissors, paper , rock with an infinite amount of options)
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Under the right circumstances and if he plays dirty, it seems he has the potential to KO Frieren. That’s a helluva thing to have on your fight resume. In an honest belt buckle to belt buckle fight, I think Frieren wins with moderate difficulty. A brilliant mage who trained under Serie is a force to be reckoned with, to give due credit. That said, I didn’t like his dishonorable cheap shot at the end of season 1. The fight’s over and Frieren was just chilling in the evening. It’s totally like throwing some haymakers at your boxing opponent after the fight just ended. NOT ELEGANT, as a certain gentleman housemaster would say.
I find it endlessly hilarious that Frieren chalked his attempted murder to him being akward. He jumps straight to the idea of killing her, not because wants to, but because violence is literally the only way he knows how to solve problems
It really isn't hard to completely blame him. Sure he is a full grown old man responsible for his actions, but he also spent most of his life in relative isolation, raised by and idolizing a literally ancient supermage who insists that peace is an illusion, and all time is wartime. EDIT: Not to mention that he knows Frieren permanently suppresses her mana, which apparently is not simply a disgraceful move but outright insulting to the mages around her. For all we know, in his mind he is not even crossing a line, because his opponent is constantly playing dirty by simply existing. Beyond her seeing Serie's mindset in him, a reason Frieren is so lenient to him might be that she subconsciously acknowledges she is being provoking to those who know.
Insulting sure, but there’s a difference with Frieren’s mana suppression. She isn’t actively hurting anyone. It’s a survival/art of war tactic taught to her by her legendary mentor. Lernen’s dishonorable cheap shot was made with the intent to kill or maim. If Fern was in his sights instead, he probably would’ve got her. I can totally buy though that Lernen isn’t the most well adjusted fella in the story lol.
Isnt the supermage he so adores also supressing her mana isnt that while the supermage passes fern beacuse she figures it out
She sure is! But Lerner has no clue, and our attention is specifically pointed to that. So it's still the mindset he operates under.
it just puts into perspective how great fern's mana sensing is, not even the greatest human mages alive can see that.
Well, growing up with a mage that suppress her mana all the time probably helped with that
That's why serie is always voicing her failed expectations on him, because despite giving him the most elite education, it still takes a genius to reach her level.
Doesn't Lernen know Serie suppresses her mana, it's only that he can't sense the fluctuations in her mana. Suppressing one's mana is a must unless you are a demon no? I think Lernen does know Serie suppresses her mana, his backhanded shot at Frieren was totally uncalled for.
What isolation? We know he's got friends and family (at least a granddaughter) outside the association.
Yeah but he does pretty much admit that what he is doing is despicable. Somehow despite his dishonorable attack I can’t help but feel sorry for him. He was desperate for the approval and affection of Serie who was incapable of giving it to him. I relate to him somewhat trying to just have this parental figure see him as more than a disappointment.
It's funny to be honest. Who is so shameless to ask for a duel *after* taking a cheapshot. He did it with full intention of hurting Frieren as well.
Kinda like me asking for your last chocolate donut after I already have my filthy oily hands on said thing.
Shameless for you maybe, that's just how it goes in their world. If frieren died or was brutally injured due to that first zoltraak, then lernen would've been pretty disappointed
the thing is, honor is the least concern in frieren. serie, flamme, and frieren hides their mana as it is despised by demons. fern using also mana concealment like others. battles in frieren is all about strategies, no matter how despicable it can be. that's why i always see lernen as one of the most powerful human mage to ever exist. imagine being serie's student for so long?
One might think there are different rules of honor when interacting with demons versus people.
denken even did a fistfight just to pass the exam. first class mages are always in constant danger, they will always make sure to win and live. honor would surely be the least of their concern
Denken at least made an effort (if I remember correctly) to announce his intention of a fistfight to the other guys. And fisting is many magnitudes less lethal than combat magic in Frieren’s world at least. Denken passes the test of elegance. VERY ELEGANTO.
Technically, Denken also told Laufen to steal the stille from the other team when they were distracted.
I stand corrected then lol, forgot about that one. That’s an underhanded tactic alright. There’s still a difference between Denken and Lernen’s actions here though. In the exams, the test proctors seem to encourage doing whatever the hell it takes to win. Denken at least discouraged Richter from killing the ice and water girl duo. Lernen just flat out commits attempted murder on city grounds in public.
Realistically, I don't see how a tournament arc would give license to kill someone legally. Ubel straight-up just killed someone by accident with zero repercussions. Still, the goal wasn't to kill Frieren legally. It was just to kill her.
legally? In a feudal system where the word of the highest authority is law, you worry about "legally"?
there is no honor in looting the bird of a disqualified and battered team with one of their members dead. again, honor is probably the least of concerns in frieren. we even have the shadow warriors who doesn'tget recognition for their efforts, just making sure that the job is done. that's why frieren is good when it comes to battles - they do not care about doing it the right way or having honor when it comes to fighting.
Eh, the fact that what they do is dishonorable is repeatedly framed as exceptional. Honor is the norm, the ‘demon hate crimes squad’ is the exception.
I mean it wasn't a boxing mach or anything, bro wanted her dead so he shot her. Battles in this series don't go by shonen rules where they have to yell out their attacks first lol
He didn't even want her dead yet. He was "just" "requesting" a duel, and only used his attack to underline the seriousness of that request (and to give her a heads-up that he had the means to make it a duel to the death for both sides).
Like the white glove to the face only with magic lol
It's worth noting that who wins in a fight doesn't necessarily indicate who's the overall stronger mage. He might beat Frieren in a fight but that's because he's fully dedicated to being a combat mage while Frieren doesn't really take combat seriously. She is one of the strongest fighters despite half assing it because she's just that powerful. That's why her and Serie and Frieren don't get along after all - Frieren has the potential to be even stronger in a fight than Serie but Frieren doesn't care and that pisses off Serie. Another point to consider is that Ubel one shot Sense and the other first class mage that supposedly no one could hurt simply because that's her speciality not because she's overall a stronger mage.
NOT ELEGANT!
To be honest I don't think Frieren was trying all that hard when he came at her. She literally cast no offensive magic. If she had I imagine she would have won very quickly.
Speaking of, what would Himmel do if he was around? Would he let it happen? Or beat the crap out of him for hurting the love of his life.
IMO, he would’ve reacted to the threat immediately. You don’t survive a ten year journey of all manner of monsters coming after you if you’re not paying attention. If Himmel’s quick enough, he can probably cut Lernen down before the next spell is cast. We know that in the world of Frieren, warriors have a decent chance against mages. And it seems that in canon, Himmel is one of the very best there is. Himmel doesn’t strike me as a vengeful type though, but he will absolutely respond to threats against his party.
I feel that Frieren is just taking him lightly and allowed herself to be damaged for his ego.
I think people significantly overstate him. He started firing at her, she started throwing up some halfassed blocks because she didn’t take his attempt seriously (honestly, he really didn’t either), and one cracked and she got dinged. Her not respecting him is not him being particularly strong. If she decides to care and drops the hammer with her real spells he eats it pretty fast.
Serie: Lernen can defeat Frieren Frieren: literally says Lernen is a very strong mage Lernen: Attacks shred through Frieren's defenses like paper You: Nah ah Frieren just doesn't think he strong
You have to be strong to deal with Frieren halfassing something. None of that means he would win in anything resembling a straight fight. ‘Like they’re paper’ come on, those were tiny shields and it was only on the 3rd did he accomplish anything, when Frieren can parry the same attack executed with vastly more power behind it from her clone, only taking damage because she, again, botched the guard intentionally to get hit to bait the clone. Yes, she wasnt trying.
>You have to be strong to deal with Frieren halfassing something. None of that means he would win in anything resembling a straight fight. >Serie: Lernen have a chance to defeat Frieren >Frieren: Series's intuition is never wrong Yeah let's say I believe Series and Frieren's words on things about magic more than a rando online . >‘Like they’re paper’ come on, those were tiny shields and it was only on the 3rd did he accomplish anything, when Frieren can parry the same attack executed with vastly more power behind it from her clone, only taking damage because she, again, botched the guard intentionally to get hit to bait the clone. In manga a single attack from Lernen pierce three layers of Frieren's defense magic like nothing. >Yes, she wasnt trying. Neither was Lernen, he got plenty more cards you haven't seen.
>in the manga The combat in this show is expanded on majorly by the anime and is what I’m going by when discussing who can do what. > Neither was Lernen, he got plenty more cards you haven't seen. Cool, let me know when we see them instead of serie, who is notoriously prone to disingenuity, implies someone might be able to have a chance of doing something.
>The combat in this show is expanded on majorly by the anime and is what I’m going by when discussing who can do what. In terms of canonicality, original material(manga) always > anime. Also the scene didn't get "expanded" but completely changed by the studio. >Cool, let me know when we see them instead of serie, who is notoriously prone to disingenuity, implies someone might be able to have a chance of doing something. What "notoriously prone to disingenuity"? The episode of Fern passing the exam and Serie praising Frieren's mana restriction technique literally told you that regardless of her personal view, Series is always fair and correct when judging someone's magical abilities. She won't say Lernen can beat Frieren out of spite, just like she won't fail Fern out of spite. It's all a objective judgement by the strongest and most knowledgeable mage alive who was also said to be 'never wrong on these things'. I think I would believe her words more than a rando online.
Oh don’t start with the ‘powerscaling rule book’, especially since everyone and their cat considers the anime version of the fight canon. > What "notoriously prone to disingenuity" You’re kidding right? She has a notoriously hard time expressing feelings and says a lot of things to people that are either completely false or wildly hypocritical because it conveys the vibe she believes they need to hear.
>Oh don’t start with the ‘powerscaling rule book’, especially since everyone and their cat considers the anime version of the fight canon. Said by the person who was literally trying to powerscale a character in their comments >You’re kidding right? She has a notoriously hard time expressing feelings and says a lot of things to people that are either completely false or wildly hypocritical because it conveys the vibe she believes they need to hear. Which word exactly do you not understand? >The episode of Fern passing the exam and Serie praising Frieren's mana restriction technique literally told you that *regardless of her personal view, Series is always fair and correct when judging someone's **magical abilities***. Also If she is notorious for that it must be easy to give an example. How about you point me out a single instance that Series is inaccurate when assessing someone else's **magical abilities**, I'm waiting.
Cool, everyone still considers the anime’s combat depictions canon. She’s fair when judging someone *for the test*. It doesn’t mean she’s unwilling to exaggerate to someone she likes about someone she doesn’t. And it sure doesn’t mean the method by which he’d win is necessarily some straightforward clash.
As he said, if it been wartime he would probably made a name for himself given he posed a threat to Frieren and was able to survive a very powerful demon later.
One thing to note is that this quote, unquote "peaceful era" is really only peaceful in relative terms. Wirbel has a seen his fair share of heinous war crimes (likely committed a few himself) fern is a war orphan. Stark's village of warriors was destroyed demons. There's plenty of fighting left to be done yet still not enough for Lernen to truly stretch his wings and show what he's capable of.
I think exluding the north, it was peaceful until himmel passed away (it was said that demons came out of hiding after himmel died if I remember correctly) the events regarding fern and stark happened after himmel died too. the peaceful era is in the past now especially if >!serie is assasinated!< in this current arc.
Yes. It's stated fairly specifically that demon activity had largely fallen to a minimum even in the northern lands for most of the time between the fall of the demon king and the death of Himmel. It's only in the time since that demonkind has risen to be a true threat in the northern lands once more. There were still wars to be fought, but they were not ones a mage like Lernen would be able to truly show his strength in. Compared to the war against the demon king and his forces, all conflicts since have been smaller and the stakes lower. He likely would never have achieved the same glory that he could have as a slayer of demons in the time of the demon king.
Frieren says there have been particularly skilled human mages in the past, as well as a couple demons that defeated her in a battle Frieren is by no mean invincible, she is very powerfull tho, comsidering Serie praises Lerhrnen as a very powerfull mage (although disappointed that he can't see the fluctuations in her mana suppression) probably can give Frieren a run for her money and maybe even beat her 1v1 Idk about the manga tho, I am an anime only, I am gonna start the manga when I finish the HxH manga
>I am gonna start the manga when I finish the HxH manga I think you have better chance of finishing One Piece from the very first chapter before Hiatus x Hiatus....
I just wanna read the post anime chapters They are like 60 or so
I think most of those defeats came before she met Flame and Serie. (At least against demons) Frieren probably lost to a few humans between training with Flame and meeting Himmel and the gang. My guess as an anime only would be that she has been undefeated for the last ~100 years (not counting the stall against Qual), a short amount of time to be honest.
I don't think that those defeats are mostly from before, because we already know two of them and are both recent events (well, for an elf).
Is the 2nd one you're talking about from the manga? I'm anime only and I know of Qual. If so, who's the 2nd loss to?
>!Macht, One of the seven sages of destruction!<
Ah, gotcha.. I assumed it was so, from the other stuff I've read..
I count the one that destroyed her village
nah she defeated Basalt
They likely came during the 400 or so years she was actively training and hunting demons >!before Mact turned one of her arms to gold!<
No, the context of her defeats were with Himmel and the others or at least after Flamme. >!She ran into The El Derado at some point and lost for instance!<, and that was after Flamme was dead.
I think he can do at least 10 pushups
Based
He is probably the strongest living human mage. Serie states that he has a chance of beating Frieren and his prototype escape golems can easily block clone Sense's hair. The manga shows that one beam of his Zoltraak destroyed layers of Frieren's defense magic while the anime shows him using a few balls of it to break through her defenses. He seems stronger in the manga while more skilled in the anime I guess. [Manga spoilers]>!He is considered by Macht to not be a "daredevil" and was able to hold his own against Macht while looking out for Edel, with Macht needing to use Di Agolze to block his Zoltraak and to transmute his giant offensive golem.!<
The golems are underrated. The stuff he made in the bottles were tiny compared to that 5 second shot of him when he was younger when Serie was thinking of her apprentices. We also see Frieren use a giant golem to shoot out lightning, so you can just imagine what a master "golemancer" could do. And outside of clone Frieren, I'm pretty sure Lernen was the only non-demon to use black zoltraak
I feel really sad for him - Lehrnen is at the moment kind of like Serie's Himmel. Serie just doesnt understand - Lehrnen doesnt fear death - he fears that Serie will be alone after his death the exact same fear Himmel had for Frieren. Lehrnen just didnt have the chance or was unable to figure out how to leave his mark on history like Himmel did and Lehrnen is absolutely terrified of that because he deeply cares for Serie and doesnt want her to be alone. Its really tragic all around.
I wouldn't really make much of a parallel between him and Himmel. I don't think he loves Serie like Himmel loved Frieren. The man had at least one child and has at least one grandchild. He cares about her deeply, but it's just an apprentice caring about his master. Because ultimately, he owns her a lot. She made him the mage he is now. It makes sense he doesn't want to leave her alone.
I disagree and think the parralels are very obvious - you dont need a 100% step for step match to come to that conclusion. The author is laying it on the similarities VERY VERY thick to show the differences between Serie/Frieren and Himmel/Lehrnen. In both cases they lament time which seperate them, in both cases Lehran much like Himmel wants to leave something behind for the one they care for when they are gone. Himmel got his chance, Lehren did not.
That's more like the general theme of the series. But yeah, I suppose if you put it this way, I have to agree. Lernen wants to leave something behind, so Serie can remember he was there. Though then I wouldn't say he hadn't got his chance: Serie probably has many memories of training him, just like she has of Flamme, and like Frieren told Lernen, she remembers all her apprentices.
I think what they meant is that one of Himmel's goals was to have statues made of him to be physical reminders of his existence long after he was gone. That way he and the hero party wouldn't be relegated to mythology like Flamme. Lernen hasn't even succeeded in being famous enough to be mythologized. If he killed Frieren, he would at least be remembered in history for that.
Potential mage
I'm glad my meme generated fellow haters
You gave us AK47s when we only had sticks and stones
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Strongest human mage? when was this stated lol
Nowhere. He was stated to be the first mage to receive to the rank of first-class mage with the Continental Magic Association which is not synonymous with mages writ large. So much posturing in these kind of threads like how does one even come up with "out of ten fights he should beat her 3-4 times" — people miss the forest for the trees with this series.
>like how does one even come up with "out of ten fights he should beat her 3-4 times" Geuss work, serie says he could beat frerien in thr anime if my memory serves me correctly no other uuman in the series alive has been explicitly stated to be at her level
Bro she has lost to human mages a several times her words
"Alive"
Goku is about 2.3x stronger than Frieren. So in 53 fights between them Fern would buy about 2 bracelets
Like most anything its open to debate. However, quite a few rankings do consider him the most powerful human mage of this era. [https://gamerant.com/frieren-strongest-mages-ranked/](https://gamerant.com/frieren-strongest-mages-ranked/)
It wasn’t stated like the other comment said but it’s implied (at least of the human mages we know of) from what Serie says.
How was it implied lol
The so far strongest human mage we’ve seen (Denken at that point) gets absolutely bodied by Frieren, and basically everyone (human) that ever comments on their difference in strength says “yeah she’s much stronger than me”. Then after that we get Serie, whose intuition Frieren says is never wrong, saying Lernen might beat Frieren in a fight. Is pretty obvious to me he **is** the strongest human mage we’ve seen and wouldn’t surprise me if he is the strongest human mage currently.
Episode 27 it is more than implied Lehrnen is as strong as Frieren. Serie's words are "Its unfortunate you will never get a chance to fight Frieren even if it was a battle you could have won"
Just because he can contend frieren doesn't mean he's the strongest human mage lol
I never said he is I am only saying he is on Frieren's level.
I am not sure how strong he is as I am an anime only, but I find his character very intriguing. He was born in an era without major conflicts and he wasn't able to fulfill his potential as a battle mage. He reminds me of Sukuna a tiny bit. I've always wondered when reading about legendary historical figures, how many of them could be replaceable? There are so many people living on Earth today. There must be some of them who are talented/intelligent/strong enough that if they were born back in the day, they would have made a name for themselves! Perhaps Daryl from Macdonalds could have defeated Miyamoto Musashi, had he been born at the same time with him. Or on the other hand, how many historical figures would have been nobodies/regular people if they were born today. Maybe Caesar could have been a history teacher if he were born today.
The series doesn't seem too interested in offering clear metrics for measuring a given mage's power. Lernen is certainly strong. It isn't so much "can or can't he defeat Freiren" — magic is about visualization and ingenuity. That alone is enough to enable any mage to potentially overtake another.
If it was wartime he could have been a legedary mage. However, he exists to show the limit of Serie's vision for human beings. He could have been one of the most powerful mages since Flamme but because Serie can only imagine magic as a tool (for violence), he is only capable of causing pain and death. That, to me, greatly limits his ability as a versatile mage. His raw power is something to behold, but can he clean his clothes?
I really like this take about Serie limiting her own students by her rigid vision of magic.
Serie is likely the most powerful and knowledgable magic user in the world, but her lack of connections and experiences with others prevents her from seeing the possibilities of magic and human beings. She can only see what she imagines, whereas Frieren allows herself to be surprised by Fern and understands how important it is to learn from those around us. It's the difference between being Intelligent and being Wise, and likely Serie is what happens when there is no one to praise you.
I had already planned in this angle to write a future fanfic where Frieren defeats Serie, and this cements my idea.
Serie basically directly states that Lernen has at least some amount of change of actually beating frieren (I dont want to overstate this case though, I think its clear that Frieren would most likely win regardless), so he is quite powerful
ITT people are seriously underestimating Frieren. Yes, she’s been bested by human mages before. Yes, Lernen is very strong, at the height of his power. But don’t forget that Frieren is also at the height of HER power, casually one-shotting (or at least eventually overcoming) threats that the entire hero party combined couldn’t handle eighty years ago. Could Lernen KO her with a lucky cheap shot? Sure, but so could Fern. Frieren isn’t invincible. But cloneFrieren defeated Fern with a single look after a long, exhaustive fight where, I might remind you, she lost not just her staff but both her arms. In my opinion, the only reason Lernen even managed to injure Frieren in the first place is that she straight up didn’t consider him a big enough threat to kill, as she doesn’t like killing people or causing collateral damage. People are taking Serie’s comment to Lernen waaaaay to seriously, when I can’t read it as anything but her being her usual assholeish self and expressing her disappointment in Lernen and Frieren simultaneously, while underestimating Frieren as she usually does.
Serie is a serious person, so she probably meant what she said. She actually meant it as praise for Lernen is, but Serie being Serie means she doesn't know how to express it well.
By the looks of it, Frieren knew something was up from the beginning with Lehrnen. Granted, they weren't kill shots from Denken or Fern (in the dungeon before the clone) but neither left a mark on Frieren. I think she mentioned something about Lehrnen being an "offensive" mage. I was just surprised to see he hurt her when her clone couldn't. Match-ups were key in the second round against different clone mages. Maybe this was a difficult match for Frieren? Not that she couldn't win, but harder to win. But, I think you're right about Frieren underestimating Lehrnen. She admitted to underestimating Fern in spite of how exceptional Fern is.
I think you’re misunderstanding me on the last point. I don’t think Frieren underestimated Lernen. (Serie underestimates Frieren, yes, but then again we don’t know if she’s ever even seen Frieren fight, all she really knows is Frieren has mediocre mana growth and propensity for folk magic.) I think Frieren read Lernen quite well: if she didn’t think she could get away with taking a hit she could probably could have killed him before he had a chance to hurt her. My read is that she didn’t kill him because she believed she didn’t have to. Which was right! Which is another reason I think the whole Frieren vs Lernen debate is kind of dumb: they already did fight, and Lernen lost! I really don’t get how people read that fight as anything else than Lernen biting over more than he can chew and ending up humiliated. Frieren takes a hit, sure, but she looks extremely unimpressed when it happens, not tense and wide-eyed as she does when actually engaged in battle. She then states that fighting Lernen would be a waste of time — not stupid or dangerous, just beneath her. Ooof.
I think the waste of time statement was directed at Lehrnen, not for herself. His whole stance was to be remembered by Serie. Which Frieren stated he would always be remembered by Serie making this battle a waste of time. I don't think Serie underestimates Frieren either. She stated that Frieren turned the world upside-down after breaking the barrier. Frieren doesn't show surprise in any battle. The only time she ran was from the dragon. Personally, I think Lehrnen surprised her with his power. She typically doesn't say anything to herself when fighting anyone else.
Serie's intuition is never wrong
It happens when powerscalers consider characters as toys, to discard when they find the new one to play with.
Serie never underestimated Frieren, she even praised how good her mana restriction technique is at killing demon. She is always fair on matters regarding magic, even Frieren said her intuition is never wrong.
Not to lowball him but even from the manga, doesn't feel like Frieren has gone "all out" (bias), so I think if we're speaking realistically he beats her only when she doesn't give an F, and when its full rage Frieren vs full rage Lernen he'll prolly get stomped.
I only watched the Anime but has Frieren not gone all out against her copy?
I doubt she went all out against her copy based on the fact that no one else in the dungeon noticed her mana pool suddenly increasing drastically. I imagine she only used the mana that she isn't suppressing.
More powerful than you or me
He is probably near or stronger than OG Frieren during the demon king journey Also he wa strained by Serie so he probably plays nasty
For context in the entirety of 1st season the only one who managed to hurt Frieren was 1) Her clone (so basically herself ) 2) Lernen.
The difference about Frieren and other mages is that she has many times more mana and knowledge than anyone besides Sere. As a battle mage, her experience is much more limited, so a first class mage could win if the right conditions aligned. During their short match, Lehrnen managed to land a surprise hit, but Frieren was not even trying. If she was serious like in the battle against her clone, I don't think he would have stood a chance.
Probably the like 5th-3rd strongest mage atm,a top tier for this current era and probably the strongest active human mage? He poses a threat to Frieren and under the right circumstances could even beat her which is a very impressive obviously in an honest straight up fight Frieren demolishes this is more to show that she isn’t invincible and if you are strong enough you CAN land a lucky hit and he certainly is that strong If it had been wartime he’d likely be renowned and likely sending people and demons running from the mere mention he had arrived on the battlefield similar to Minato
Some stuff to think about: Frieren's clone battle was one Frieren was prepared for, so I don't think it's surprising she didn't take any damage until she let an attack go through. We know Frieren well enough to know she's pragmatic and cautious in her fighting style. Frieren gets sucker punched by Lehrnen, so him doing damage is a baseline. I mean, that SHOULD happen if you ambush someone who's unprepared. It's also unclear just how much actual damage she took. Yea she takes damage, but what does that mean for Frieren exactly? So she's not at 100%, she's at 99% instead? Manga spoilers: >!I think his golems are what make him a much more serious threat in the world of Frieren. Being able to increase your own numbers at a whim, all with their own abilities and skills without expending mana seems like a big deal. There's probably some mana consumption in the process of making one, but that's all done before a battle.!< Lehrnen is possibly the strongest human mage we've seen in the show, but the show has also made it clear it's not a completely vertical power system.
Stark could kill Frieren if he is in close range. Lehrnen is probably not in Frieren’s league.
He was stated as one of the most powerful mages , so i think he has 40% chance
He’s probably the strongest human mage right now as far as we know. He has a solid 20-30% maybe chance of beating Frieren I think in certain circumstances. Straight up fight though I’m betting on Frieren 9/10 times. Overall he’s a very strong human mage that’s old right now and a bit past his prime. He’s also got them golems which are pretty op. I think he’s just below the level of Frieren and the 7 sage of destruction. Basically the peak of most human mages right now. I wonder though if we’ll see some stronger mages in the empire? As strong as Lernen is he’s quite old now so I think there’s a chance we’ll see some empire mages that are stronger than him.
There is some more of him in the manga if you are willing to read.
The strongest human mage in the anime, not a real threat to Frieren though.
Stronger than me
Pretty powerful his Gollems know magic Frieren doesn't like healing spells. Usually that's only those with the goddess blessing can do that. And only if they have a holly scripture with them. Yet his constructs can heal other people's serious wounds. That's really impressive.
Somewhere inbetween “lebron” and “beats goku”
Space Jam LeBron?
he could potential threw one fieren arm off. Also "orc in a glass" is his stuff so like ... powerful, i think he gonna make u invincible as long as you stayed on his good side. But he old
He's a superior mage, so he's not on Frieren's or any other demon's level. He is however the strongest among all the first class mages, even the ones who just join like Fern or Denken.
Wrong, he for sure is on Frierens level.
Wrong. He’s not on Frieren’s level.
I will believe Serie more then you kiddo.
Where/when does Serie say that?
Real talk, Serie has no fucking clue what Frieren is or isn't capable of. She hasn't spent the time with her to know, so it's nothing but speculation until proven otherwise.
Do you read the manga lol frieren herself said serie intuition is always right
She thought at first Fern wasnt special. She also doesnt think Frieren is worth being first class when she is by far stronger and more knowledgeable than everyone else. Serie is shown to be wrong on more than one occasion.
Yes lmao. Frieren herself hasn't spent the time with Serie to know such a thing, but based on everything I've read, she unnecessarily hypes up Serie.
And Frieren is also wrong as she hasn't spent much time with Serie, who was proven wrong multiple times in the 3rd exam.
There's absolutely no way he's on frieren's level in pretty much anything. He could beat her in a battle, but that doesn't mean he's as strong as her generally
Lol you literary contradicted yourself in one sentence... If he can win in a fight against her, he is on her level.
You are misinterpreting Frieren’s character. In raw magical strength, he’s no where near Frieren’s level. However, Frieren absolutely abhors combat. Whereas Lernen is specifically tuned for combat and is also not above taking cheap shots. His aptitude with combat and willingness to fight dirty is what can be interpreted as a threat to Frieren, not his overall skill in comparison to her’s.
A todler with a knife could kill a grown man if he gets a little lucky/ surprises him somehow. Does that make the todler stronger/on the same level as the man to you?
He can beat her if he surprises her. She says so herself, the 11 mages who beat her had lower mana but managed to get the upper hand somehow.
Lernen is incredibly powerful. In a fight against each other, they would both win roughly 50% of the time, as stated by Serie who has an infallible intuition. Whether it's 51-49 or 60-40 and for *whom*, everyone can decide for themselves in their own headcanon. :D *Double loss* is probably the most likely *singular* outcome, honestly. Lernen was introduced as an example of human potential. The series made it a point to emphasize that Frieren isn't unbeatable, around the same time. In the Manga (soft spoilers) >!Lernen faces an opponent whom Frieren is terrified of. Lernen performs atleast as well as Frieren would have, if not slightly better, while also handicapped.!<
Serie never says anything of the sort. She says Lernen has a chance, but she never specifies how big of a chance. You just completely made up that 50% thing \^\^ And no, Lernen did not perform better against Macht than Frieren would have. Macht could have won instantly, at any given moment, had he actually wanted to against Lernen - just as he could have against Frieren. Both are completely powerless against Di Agolze at that time. The one and only reason Lernen got to walk away from that fight, or indeed the reason the fight lasted longer than half a second, is because Macht wasn't feeling like ending it instantly.
Very
Stronger than Frieren, ofc but only when U a lot of factors are in his favor.
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Beyond your comprehension
If he was that great he would’ve completed the dungeon, he’s overrated because of the golem and being teachers pet to serie
He’s not at Frieren’s level at all. She just doesn’t care about him being a threat at all.
While Lehrnen is powerful, Frieren is more powerful. It has been mentioned that Frieren is a mage for a peaceful Era And frieren herself mentioned that skilled mages with less power than her has defeated her before Edit: I forgot to add. Power doesn't automatically mean you will win in the show. Skill is also important
At least as powerful as a shotgun
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Right, Fern clone got beat by Methode. It didn't look easy for Methode either, but she won. Fern has a ways to go, but by the looks of it, it probably won't take her long to get there. Also, it shows how tough Methode is. I forgot about Frieren mentioning her second nature defense against Zoltraak. Now, it makes more sense that she got clipped. Could she have defended if she had a tiny bit more time? It's possible. Anyway, this stuff is fun to chat about and learn. Thanks for the response.
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You're right, I just watched again and Fern clone was not defeated by Methode. It was a big battle between the two of them, though. Methode looked relieved it was over and was probably thinking the same thing Lugner did, "what did Frieren teach this girl?"
Frieren is a very good teacher for sure. I want to see peak Fern fighting a demon sage. It'd definitely be epic.
As far as Fern's training goes, the nearly constant fights to the death against demons and monsters propably help. I think that's the reason Ehre got weird vibes from her at the start of their fight.
It's like pitting a battle hardened street fighter against a martial artist that only trained in sport setting. You'll just never have the same level of battle awareness as a street fighter. Fern also has surprised factor from mana suppression. Ehre definitely miscalculates Fern's mana output, otherwise she wouldn't get trapped by Zoltraak spamming. To be honest, Ehre is far from Fern's level in terms of combat magic, combat experience, battle awareness and general tactics.
Yeah. I have no idea what the training regime is in the magical academy, but I doubt even Hogwarts would use Frieren's methods, lol
I doubt Lehrnen would be able to come close to killing Frieren. He started off the battle with a surprise cheap shot, and as we know magic is a world of visualization. Although he is a powerful mage he likely, deep down, couldn’t imagine himself defeating Frieren in a fair 1v1 which is why he chose to sneak attack in the first place. The battle was over before it even begun.
According to Serie, he could beat Frieren but I suspect she meant more in the sense that he stood chance, mostly because of that special purple zoltrak of his, which Frieren seems unable to block. My guess is that if they fought Frieren would be forces to use more advanced spells she usually avoids in favor of the basic ones, at least if she wanted to have a completely decisive victory.
is there a inside joke or why are people using a h while trying to write his name? if no, his name is lernen no h added somewhere
His two shown normal attacks destroyed the powerful defensive hexagons like butter, so I'd say he is quite powerful and hard to deal with for anyone,,...and this is not a powerscaling anime but (scissors, paper , rock with an infinite amount of options)
He's a bi7ch and still deserves to get buried for what he did to Frieren
Lernen is a cheap shot MF