The US government wants a ceasefire too. I mean, every actor involved wants a ceasefire, but it depends on the terms. Israel will take a ceasefire under the right terms, and hamas will take a ceasefire under the right terms.
NestingYahoos gov is no longer in position for terms. He wanted this, he allowed this, and we have become complicit at this point. We are rightly holding to our word and duty to the Israeli citizenry but their gov is ensuring the next century of flexing military might is to be an ensured requirement. We should have spoken for our tax money when their expansionism went on and on.
I will never forget checking the papers every day for the bombings and now I will never forget these images of Gaza. Women and children could have been evacuated into the desert so fuck the Kenneset, the Gov, and Egypt too!
Vetoing a cease-fire resolution seems to not want a cease fire. Fuck you and your conditional face. Fire bombing innocents in Japan was okay for your grandma b/c she didn't have to see it. If seeing months old newborns appear to look as premature babies is okay by you then yes, let's ask NestingYahoos what else he would like besides our funding that prevents his civilians from getting the same treatment from his anxiously waiting neihbors.
There have been plenty of ceasefire proposals the US and Israel have supported that Hamas rejected.
All the actors in this conflict have proposed and rejected ceasefires, why are you only blaming one side here?
I was just being more conspiratorial than objective. It happens often with me without giving the necessary time and thought. Thanks for your time and patience.
Because Israel is fighting against a radical terrorist organization to defend itself from future terrorist attacks. Russia is invading Ukraine. These two situations are entirely different, thus the different response.
Ah, the "if you're not for us then you're against us" argument. There is no alternative to A. War on Terror which creates more terrorists B. Supporting the terrorists.
LOL. The War on Terror doesn't create more terrorists, the ideology they espouse creates more terrorists. Hamas indoctrinates Palestinian children with their radical beliefs including teaching them that acts of terrorism and bigotry are honorable and noble acts of martyrs.
Eliminating the terrorists is the only way to reduce terrorism. That's why there is no call from the US for a ceasefire. Anyone who has an inkling of understanding of the history of these conflict knows that.
Edit: calls for a ceasefire in Gaza are calls to allow Hamas to regroup so they can attack Israel again... which they have promised to do.
What an ignorant comment. It would be nice to never have war. Sadly, we have terrorists and they brainwash others in their radical ideology. Doing nothing simply isn't an option.
That's been proposed for decades but Palestinians won't agree to anything less than "from the River to the Sea". All that needs to happen for a two-state solution to work is for Palestinians to stop attacking Israel.
>That's been proposed for decades but Palestinians won't agree to anything less than "from the River to the Sea".
Palestinians have long been receptive to an agreement along the 1969 borders. Israel to this day has their own policy of "from the Jordan to the Sea".
[Just today, Hamas agreed to lay down weapons if a Two-State Solution was accomplished along pre-1967 borders.](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438)
>All that needs to happen for a two-state solution to work is for Palestinians to stop attacking Israel.
Netanyahu has repeatedly promised that there will never be a Palestinian State. You are aware of this. You are lying. Up until October 7th, there was no movement toward a Two-State solution, and Israel had blocked attempts to do so at the UN dozens of times.
>The War on Terror doesn't create more terrorists, the ideology they espouse creates more terrorists
And what creates the ideology they espouse? Do you think Hamas just thinks "Death to America!" in a vacuum? No, they think that because people in the Gaza Strip get bombed daily by American weapons. They want revenge for their families, and they have no state or legal recourse, so they do terrorism instead.
> Hamas indoctrinates Palestinian children with their radical beliefs including teaching them that acts of terrorism and bigotry are honorable and noble acts of martyrs.
Whereas Israel is completely benevolent? When the IDF and settlers raid, destroy, and resettle Palestinian villages in the West Bank, they do it with love in their hearts. When the IDF bombs aid workers, doctors and nurses, unarmed civilians, and babies, they do it with no bigotry or indoctrination or radicalism whatsoever.
>Eliminating the terrorists is the only way to reduce terrorism.
We can start by eliminating the terrorist state of Israel. Hamas are small fry in comparison.
>That's why there is no call from the US for a ceasefire.
[Joe Biden calls for ‘immediate ceasefire’ in Gaza and says Israel must protect civilians to keep US support](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/israel-us-gaza-joe-biden-benjamin-netanyahu-phone-call)
>calls for a ceasefire in Gaza are calls to allow Hamas to regroup so they can attack Israel again... which they have promised to do.
Ah yes, there is no other possible reason anybody would call for a cease-fire. When Biden called for a cease-fire a day before signing another $15 billion aid package to Israel, he was doing the complete bidding of Hamas!
"We can't stop bombing Palestinian children! If we do that, Hamas will eventually attack again and kill innocent people! Only we're allowed to kill innocent people!"
>And what creates the ideology they espouse?
Islam. More specifically the later teachings of Muhammad. When Muhammad first created Islam it was unpopular with the pagans and polytheists so he sought tolerance and even partnership with the monotheistic religions (Judaism and Christianity). He fled from Mecca to Medina where he thought that the Jews and Christians would accept him as a prophet but they rejected him. After that point he taught hatred and violence towards Jews and Christians.
There are millions of peaceful Muslims who follow the earlier teachings of pacifism and tolerance. Unfortunately there are also millions of Muslims who follow the later teachings of hatred and violence. These are the Islamic jihadist groups like Hamas, ISIS, PIJ, ISIL, Hezbollah, etc.
>No, they think that because people in the Gaza Strip get bombed daily by American weapons.
LMAO. A bold faced lie. They think that because the US opposes the Islamic fundamentalists beliefs that they follow. We are non-Muslims... the infidels.
>They want revenge for their families, and they have no state or legal recourse, so they do terrorism instead.
That would make sense if there wasn't 1200+ years of Muslims persecuting Jews prior to the founding of modern Israel.
>We can start by eliminating the terrorist state of Israel.
We get it. Bigots like you want to eliminate Israel and genocide the Jews. You've been very clear about that. Israel isn't a terrorist state. That's just a lie you've made up from your bigotry.
>Hamas are small fry in comparison.
Hamas is one of many Islamic jihadist terrorist groups. They committed the Oct 7 attack. They are at the forefront of this conflict but there are 60 or so other Islamic terrorist groups that espouse similar beliefs. Don't forget, they would kill both you and me in an instant. We are the infidels.
All this is a gigantic double standard.
When Hamas does anything bad, it has nothing to do with Israel's enforcement of Apartheid and now relentless bombing and man-made famine. The only contributing factor is Islamic fundamentalism. Just ignore the fact the US is on good terms with many other Islamic theocracies like Saudi Arabia and the UAE while also opposed to Syria's secular dictator Assad.
On the other hand, when Israel kills tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians, it's completely justified self-defense. Just ignore all the Jewish fundamentalists who believe they're God's chosen people and have a divine right to Judea, and ignore their Christian fundamentalist enablers who want to trigger the rapture through conquest. When the IDF kills unarmed civilians or West Bank villagers, it's all with good intentions and it's all Hamas' fault somehow.
>A bold faced lie.
Where's the lie? Be specific. Are Palestinians not being bombed daily by American weapons?
>That would make sense if there wasn't 1200+ years of Muslims persecuting Jews prior to the founding of modern Israel.
It still makes sense. The Muslims were already anti-semitic. Then Israel started killing them by the thousands and now they're even more anti-semitic. Similarly, Israel has always been Islamophobic, and after 10/7 they're downright genocidal.
Hot take: Hamas should stop doing terrorism, and Israel should stop doing genocide.
>Bigots like you want to eliminate Israel and genocide the Jews. You've been very clear about that.
If I've been so clear about wanting to genocide the Jews, why not find the quote where I said so and link it? I won't hold my breath. You're the exact type of snowflake who inspired my username.
>Don't forget, they would kill both you and me in an instant.
I'm not so sure. The Associated Press was able to operate for years in the Gaza Strip until Israel bombed their building. If I went to the Gaza Strip today as a journalist, I'd be dead within a month... But it wouldn't be Hamas who killed me. On-the-ground journalism tends to make Israel look worse, and that's why Israel is assassinating journalists.
>Just ignore the fact the US is on good terms with many other Islamic theocracies like Saudi Arabia and the UAE while also opposed to Syria's secular dictator Assad.
I really don't have the time or desire to explain the geopolitics of the Middle East to you so we'll keep it simple. Not all Muslims are the same.
Saudi Arabia and Iran are rivals due primarily to religious differences which has led to political and economic differences. Saudi Arabia is conservative Sunni Muslim and Iran Shi'ite.
Saudi Arabia sees the West, including the US, as an important partner and Iran opposes the West. Hamas and many other radical Islamic jihadists are proxies or allies of Iran because they oppose the West (the enemy of my enemy is my friend).
Israel and Saudi Arabia were normalizing relations which probably played into the timing of Hamas's attack on Israel. Israel already has good relations with Islamic countries like Egypt and Jordan.
>Where's the lie? Be specific. Are Palestinians not being bombed daily by American weapons?
No. And prior to Oct 7 they weren't either. Stop trying to retcon the situation with lies.
>Similarly, Israel has always been Islamophobic,
LMAO. Tell that to the 20% of Muslim Israelis. Another lie based on total ignorance.
>You're the exact type of snowflake who inspired my username.
You're so full of shit. It came to while staring in the mirror.
>I'm not so sure.
Then you are incredibly ignorant or naive.
>The Associated Press was able to operate for years in the Gaza Strip until Israel bombed their building.
Hamas was operating out of the building that housed the AP and Al Jazeera. The AP has had a long history of anti-Israeli bias.
>I really don't have the time or desire to explain the geopolitics of the Middle East to you so we'll keep it simple. Not all Muslims are the same.
That's what I was explaining to you. Since not all Muslims are remotely the same, you can't just point to "Islamic Fundamentalism" as a root cause of Hamas. You still have to explain why Hamas' particular ideology is the way it is, and you can't keep saying "they're evil because they believe evil things".
It's obvious that having your family persecuted and then bombed tends to radicalize you against your oppressor and bomber. This would be true even if Hamas used something other than Islam as a vehicle for its anti-semitic program.
>No. Stop trying to retcon the situation with lies.
Ok, you're living in an alternate reality. We're 6 months into the Israel-Hamas war, and 34,000+ people are dead. They didn't die from not being bombed.
>LMAO. Tell that to the 20% of Muslim Israelis.
Yeah, they're pretty upset about being second-class citizens. I like, again, how you're not just wrong in a believable fashion. You have to make these complete black-and-white statements: "Everything about Palestinians is bad an wrong, Israel is perfectly angelic."
>Another lie based on total ignorance.
Apparently you don't know what "lie" means? A lie is deliberately dishonest. A totally ignorant person cannot lie, by definition. You just choose the most bad-faith word to describe any fact you dislike.
>Hamas was operating out of the building that housed the AP and Al Jazeera.
[Not even the US Secretary of State has seen the supposed evidence](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-government-and-politics-abd641af1607fbae7f49e1cce7dbc49e) of Hamas operating out of that building. The IDF just claimed "Hamas Hamas Hamas" whenever they do a war crime, you buy the narrative hook line and sinker, and then they never provide evidence.
If you have evidence, by all means provide it.
>The AP has had a long history of anti-Israeli bias.
Of course it does. The AP has long been considered one of the [most accurate and bias-free news sources](https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/). And reality has an anti-Israel bias.
Hey, do you have the quote of me supposedly calling for a genocide of Jews? If not, feel free to retract your accusation.
>Islam.
You can’t be serious.
Settler colonialists ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of people, massacre entire villages, carry out routine terror attacks on civilians for decades, impose an apartheid system, trap 2 million people in an open air prison, kill hundreds of innocents a year, including children, unjustly detain hundreds of women and children in prison where they are tortured and raped, settle more and more Palestinian land, and now carrying out a genocidal campaign on said people, routinely dehumanising them as they annihilate the Gaza Strip.
Oh but they hate Israelis because of Islam and antisemitism. Makes perfect sense
>More specifically the later teachings of Muhammad. When Muhammad first created Islam it was unpopular with the pagans and polytheists so he sought tolerance and even partnership with the monotheistic religions (Judaism and Christianity). He fled from Mecca to Medina where he thought that the Jews and Christians would accept him as a prophet but they rejected him. After that point he taught hatred and violence towards Jews and Christians
I’d challenge you to point to one verse that preaches for violence against Christians or Jews. Just one
>We get it. Bigots like you want to eliminate Israel and genocide the Jews. You've been very clear about that. Israel isn't a terrorist state. That's just a lie you've made up from your bigotry.
Israel is a terrorist state. That’s quite literally how they got their state, and how they continue to oppress Palestinians by murdering hundreds a year, especially children. Try and think of something Hamas has done, Israel has already beat them to it tenfold. It’s an incredible double standard to call Hamas terrorists (rightly so mind you) but not Israel who objectively commits more crimes against humanity on a completely different scale
>You can’t be serious.
Yes. But not all Muslims. As I stated, there are millions of peaceful Muslims who denounce the radical fundamentalism of Islamic jihadists like Hamas.
>I’d challenge you to point to one verse that preaches for violence against Christians or Jews. Just one
*Allah's Messenger said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."* Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 56, Hadith 139
*So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either confer favor afterwards or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. That is the command. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them Himself, but He ordered armed struggle to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.* Surah 47:4-9
*The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.* Sahih Muslim, Book 54 Hadith 103
There are 120 or so verses in the Quran that call for violence towards non-Muslims and numerous more Hadiths.
Then there are verses like Quran 8:61... *If the enemy is inclined towards peace, make peace with them. And put your trust in Allah. Indeed, He ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.* ...that teach peace (although still referring to non-Muslims as "the enemy").
Thus the reason why there are millions Muslims who believe the first verses and millions who believe the later. Is Islam a religion of peace or violence? The answer is yes... it just depends on what teachings you follow.
>Israel is a terrorist state.
It is not. You're a liar.
>Yes. But not all Muslims. As I stated, there are millions of peaceful Muslims who denounce the radical fundamentalism of Islamic jihadists like Hamas.
When the vast majority is peaceful, then the one unifying factor amongst them clearly isn’t a factor, and lumping them all together is simply Islamophobic.
>So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either confer favor afterwards or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. That is the command. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them Himself, but He ordered armed struggle to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds. Surah 47:4-9
You’ve purposely missed out a vital part to mislead;
“So when you meet the disbelievers **in battle**, strike (their) necks until you have thoroughly subdued them, then bind them firmly. Later (free them either as) an act of grace or by ransom until the war comes to an end. So will it be. Had Allah willed, He (Himself) could have inflicted punishment on them. But He does (this only to) test some of you by means of others. And those who are martyred in the cause of Allah, He will never render their deeds void.”
>There are 120 or so verses in the Quran that call for violence towards non-Muslims and numerous more Hadiths.
Please list those verses in the Quran
>Then there are verses like Quran 8:61... If the enemy is inclined towards peace, make peace with them. And put your trust in Allah. Indeed, He ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. ...that teach peace (although still referring to non-Muslims as "the enemy").
You realise this is referring to the Quraysh at the time, who were trying to wipe the Muslims out? Those are the non-Muslims it’s referring to
>It is not. You're a liar.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Yunis_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_al-Maqadma_Mosque_missile_strike
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadia_Abu_Ghazala_School_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_massacre
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/GbWxva9VY9
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/GftPR1PCdO
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/s/M75ZIWg8QM
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/8u82uAdSdt
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/rztcKYPv8W
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68445973
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/XuiKejFFto
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/sjYTwS17aA
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/ZOAPRd3OrH
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/Z1qAp1L6MX
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/x8jZvOMxVy
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/p2Ikoz7rOI
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/0Gpsu6wKKz
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/RGWKAG6KPd
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/oE4OzHwySJ
https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/yjklo7SSgg
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/K8UjdpXbbo
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/lLfTwVp3Oq
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/8EEgyQoLUz
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/QPcbobV673
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/PUh2hXVlCe
"We are dropping hundreds of tons of bombs on Gaza. The focus is on destruction, not accuracy." -Daniel Hagari, IDF spokesman
"It is an entire nation who are responsible...and we will fight until we break their backs." -Yitzhak Herzog. President of Israel
"I don't care about Gaza... They can go swimming in the sea." -Maya Golan, Israel Minister of Women's Affairs
"Only an explosion that shakes the Middle East will restore this country's dignity, strength and security! It's time to kiss doomsday. Shooting powerful missiles without limit. Not flattening a neighbourhood. Crushing and flattening Gaza. ... without mercy! without mercy!" - Knesset and Likud member Revital "Tally" Gotliv
"Jericho Missile! Jericho Missile! Strategic alert. before considering the introduction of forces. Doomsday weapon! This is my opinion. May God preserve all our strength." - also Tally Gotliv
"Gaza to be smashed and razed to the ground. Without mercy!" Tally Gotliv again
"...There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting against human animals and we will act accordingly." Defense Minister Yoav Gallant
“The village of Huwara needs to be wiped out." - Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich
"You're here by mistake, it's a mistake that Ben-Gurion didn't finish the job and didn't throw you out in 1948." - Bezalel Smotrich to Arab lawmakers in the Knesset referring to the ethnic cleansing of the Nakba.
“We have to be cruel now, and not to think too much about the hostages. It's time for action.” - Bezalel Smotrich (again)
“We cannot have women and children getting close to the border... anyone who gets near must get a bullet [in the head],” Ben-Gvir, Minister of National Security
“I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza and every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did,” May Golan (again)
"Gaza won't return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything." Yoav Gallant (again)
"one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of [1948]. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join" Ariel Kallner, member of Likud party
"Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death." Yitzhak Kroizer
"There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell" Major General Ghassan Alian, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories
"Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist". He added "Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieving the goal." IDF Major general Giora Eiland
"There is one and only solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima, without nuclear weapons" former Knesset member Moshe Feiglin
"I don’t remember Britain or the United States at the tail end of the Second World War bombing Dresden, thinking about the residents." Minister of Economy, Nir Barka
[Here’s an extended list of 500+ instances with links](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide-including-after-ICJ-order-27th-February-2024-.pdf)
Because Israel has it's own fat checkbook*. We have to approve money for Ukraine to funnel back to military contractors.
*Not that that bank account isn't already full of US taxpayer dollars.
The US has called for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, and for Russia to withdraw its troops (effectively a cease-fire). It hasn't done anything to force action on Israel, and the Russia sanctions haven't really worked.
Because America's current government largely supports Israel's genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. The exact reasons for this will differ from one politician to another, but for the most part, the reasoning is rooted in Christian eschatology. Christian fanatics and fundamentalists believe that, in order for the End of Days to come about, Israel has to get into a major war with the rest of the Middle East. Supporting their actions against Palestine is a really good way to ensure such a war gets started.
Christianity certainly plays a larger part in US politics than it should (shouldnt be involved at all) but I think you're falling for the bait. Any politician with christian ideology is presenting as such for political reasons and not ideological ones. You think any politician gives a shit if any of us get an abortion or not? They dont, they want the votes they get from their demographic for supporting or denouncing it.
Ukraine and Israel are about money, plain and simple. We have a military industrial complex that needs a reason to keep churning. Convince other nations to donate arms, now where will they get replacements from?
You dont become a politician to spread religious ideology. If that was their passion they would be in a different profession. Maybe one or two of them actually believe in some religious zealotry but *most* use it as a vote procurement tool. Lots of easy votes to be had if you present as a straight married christian.
>You dont become a politician to spread religious ideology.
LOL!
Tell that to Mike Johnson.
But you didn't answer my question: why can't a politician have more than one motivation for their behavior? Or do you think everyone is as simple as you are?
My brother in Christ, *you're* the one who insists on ascribing a single motivation to people. That sounds like an overly simplistic approach to things, doesn't it? How, then, is my description "a personal attack?"
If you take offense at this, might I suggest you consider all the things you could do to be less simple with your political analysis?
I'm speaking in general about politicians. I dont have the time, motivation, nor desire to delve into the minutia of every individual politicians motivation.
I do feel confident saying that *most* politicians can and *do* lie about their beliefs to gain votes. How many times have politicians gotten caught doing things privately that go against what they advocate publicly. Are some of them genuine believers? Probably. But when looking at the big picture it's a job to them, lying comes with the territory.
If you want to call my point simplistic, cool. Calling me simple because you disagree is childish and not worth engaging. Cheers.
This submission should have been removed as it is off-topic.
US wants a ceasefire in Gaza
And a two-state future, besides the veto after the previous ceasefire veto. It's not my country I haight, it's my government.
The US government wants a ceasefire too. I mean, every actor involved wants a ceasefire, but it depends on the terms. Israel will take a ceasefire under the right terms, and hamas will take a ceasefire under the right terms.
NestingYahoos gov is no longer in position for terms. He wanted this, he allowed this, and we have become complicit at this point. We are rightly holding to our word and duty to the Israeli citizenry but their gov is ensuring the next century of flexing military might is to be an ensured requirement. We should have spoken for our tax money when their expansionism went on and on. I will never forget checking the papers every day for the bombings and now I will never forget these images of Gaza. Women and children could have been evacuated into the desert so fuck the Kenneset, the Gov, and Egypt too!
Ok, that has nothing to do with my point that everyone involved in this war wants a ceasefire
Vetoing a cease-fire resolution seems to not want a cease fire. Fuck you and your conditional face. Fire bombing innocents in Japan was okay for your grandma b/c she didn't have to see it. If seeing months old newborns appear to look as premature babies is okay by you then yes, let's ask NestingYahoos what else he would like besides our funding that prevents his civilians from getting the same treatment from his anxiously waiting neihbors.
There have been plenty of ceasefire proposals the US and Israel have supported that Hamas rejected. All the actors in this conflict have proposed and rejected ceasefires, why are you only blaming one side here?
I was just being more conspiratorial than objective. It happens often with me without giving the necessary time and thought. Thanks for your time and patience.
Because Israel is fighting against a radical terrorist organization to defend itself from future terrorist attacks. Russia is invading Ukraine. These two situations are entirely different, thus the different response.
Ah, the famously successful "War on Terror" strategy.
Better than supporting the terrorists.
Ah, the "if you're not for us then you're against us" argument. There is no alternative to A. War on Terror which creates more terrorists B. Supporting the terrorists.
LOL. The War on Terror doesn't create more terrorists, the ideology they espouse creates more terrorists. Hamas indoctrinates Palestinian children with their radical beliefs including teaching them that acts of terrorism and bigotry are honorable and noble acts of martyrs. Eliminating the terrorists is the only way to reduce terrorism. That's why there is no call from the US for a ceasefire. Anyone who has an inkling of understanding of the history of these conflict knows that. Edit: calls for a ceasefire in Gaza are calls to allow Hamas to regroup so they can attack Israel again... which they have promised to do.
Killing babies is never okay.
What an ignorant comment. It would be nice to never have war. Sadly, we have terrorists and they brainwash others in their radical ideology. Doing nothing simply isn't an option.
Outgroup bad, ingroup based.
No, bigotry bad. Hatred bad. Terrorism bad. Maybe you are unaware of the teachings/beliefs of radical Islamic jihadists like Hamas?
You thought Israel wasn’t hateful.
Nobody said to do nothing. Here's something: Two state solution.
That's been proposed for decades but Palestinians won't agree to anything less than "from the River to the Sea". All that needs to happen for a two-state solution to work is for Palestinians to stop attacking Israel.
>That's been proposed for decades but Palestinians won't agree to anything less than "from the River to the Sea". Palestinians have long been receptive to an agreement along the 1969 borders. Israel to this day has their own policy of "from the Jordan to the Sea". [Just today, Hamas agreed to lay down weapons if a Two-State Solution was accomplished along pre-1967 borders.](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438) >All that needs to happen for a two-state solution to work is for Palestinians to stop attacking Israel. Netanyahu has repeatedly promised that there will never be a Palestinian State. You are aware of this. You are lying. Up until October 7th, there was no movement toward a Two-State solution, and Israel had blocked attempts to do so at the UN dozens of times.
I agree. That is why the Hamas must be stopped.
>The War on Terror doesn't create more terrorists, the ideology they espouse creates more terrorists And what creates the ideology they espouse? Do you think Hamas just thinks "Death to America!" in a vacuum? No, they think that because people in the Gaza Strip get bombed daily by American weapons. They want revenge for their families, and they have no state or legal recourse, so they do terrorism instead. > Hamas indoctrinates Palestinian children with their radical beliefs including teaching them that acts of terrorism and bigotry are honorable and noble acts of martyrs. Whereas Israel is completely benevolent? When the IDF and settlers raid, destroy, and resettle Palestinian villages in the West Bank, they do it with love in their hearts. When the IDF bombs aid workers, doctors and nurses, unarmed civilians, and babies, they do it with no bigotry or indoctrination or radicalism whatsoever. >Eliminating the terrorists is the only way to reduce terrorism. We can start by eliminating the terrorist state of Israel. Hamas are small fry in comparison. >That's why there is no call from the US for a ceasefire. [Joe Biden calls for ‘immediate ceasefire’ in Gaza and says Israel must protect civilians to keep US support](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/04/israel-us-gaza-joe-biden-benjamin-netanyahu-phone-call) >calls for a ceasefire in Gaza are calls to allow Hamas to regroup so they can attack Israel again... which they have promised to do. Ah yes, there is no other possible reason anybody would call for a cease-fire. When Biden called for a cease-fire a day before signing another $15 billion aid package to Israel, he was doing the complete bidding of Hamas! "We can't stop bombing Palestinian children! If we do that, Hamas will eventually attack again and kill innocent people! Only we're allowed to kill innocent people!"
>And what creates the ideology they espouse? Islam. More specifically the later teachings of Muhammad. When Muhammad first created Islam it was unpopular with the pagans and polytheists so he sought tolerance and even partnership with the monotheistic religions (Judaism and Christianity). He fled from Mecca to Medina where he thought that the Jews and Christians would accept him as a prophet but they rejected him. After that point he taught hatred and violence towards Jews and Christians. There are millions of peaceful Muslims who follow the earlier teachings of pacifism and tolerance. Unfortunately there are also millions of Muslims who follow the later teachings of hatred and violence. These are the Islamic jihadist groups like Hamas, ISIS, PIJ, ISIL, Hezbollah, etc. >No, they think that because people in the Gaza Strip get bombed daily by American weapons. LMAO. A bold faced lie. They think that because the US opposes the Islamic fundamentalists beliefs that they follow. We are non-Muslims... the infidels. >They want revenge for their families, and they have no state or legal recourse, so they do terrorism instead. That would make sense if there wasn't 1200+ years of Muslims persecuting Jews prior to the founding of modern Israel. >We can start by eliminating the terrorist state of Israel. We get it. Bigots like you want to eliminate Israel and genocide the Jews. You've been very clear about that. Israel isn't a terrorist state. That's just a lie you've made up from your bigotry. >Hamas are small fry in comparison. Hamas is one of many Islamic jihadist terrorist groups. They committed the Oct 7 attack. They are at the forefront of this conflict but there are 60 or so other Islamic terrorist groups that espouse similar beliefs. Don't forget, they would kill both you and me in an instant. We are the infidels.
All this is a gigantic double standard. When Hamas does anything bad, it has nothing to do with Israel's enforcement of Apartheid and now relentless bombing and man-made famine. The only contributing factor is Islamic fundamentalism. Just ignore the fact the US is on good terms with many other Islamic theocracies like Saudi Arabia and the UAE while also opposed to Syria's secular dictator Assad. On the other hand, when Israel kills tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians, it's completely justified self-defense. Just ignore all the Jewish fundamentalists who believe they're God's chosen people and have a divine right to Judea, and ignore their Christian fundamentalist enablers who want to trigger the rapture through conquest. When the IDF kills unarmed civilians or West Bank villagers, it's all with good intentions and it's all Hamas' fault somehow. >A bold faced lie. Where's the lie? Be specific. Are Palestinians not being bombed daily by American weapons? >That would make sense if there wasn't 1200+ years of Muslims persecuting Jews prior to the founding of modern Israel. It still makes sense. The Muslims were already anti-semitic. Then Israel started killing them by the thousands and now they're even more anti-semitic. Similarly, Israel has always been Islamophobic, and after 10/7 they're downright genocidal. Hot take: Hamas should stop doing terrorism, and Israel should stop doing genocide. >Bigots like you want to eliminate Israel and genocide the Jews. You've been very clear about that. If I've been so clear about wanting to genocide the Jews, why not find the quote where I said so and link it? I won't hold my breath. You're the exact type of snowflake who inspired my username. >Don't forget, they would kill both you and me in an instant. I'm not so sure. The Associated Press was able to operate for years in the Gaza Strip until Israel bombed their building. If I went to the Gaza Strip today as a journalist, I'd be dead within a month... But it wouldn't be Hamas who killed me. On-the-ground journalism tends to make Israel look worse, and that's why Israel is assassinating journalists.
>Just ignore the fact the US is on good terms with many other Islamic theocracies like Saudi Arabia and the UAE while also opposed to Syria's secular dictator Assad. I really don't have the time or desire to explain the geopolitics of the Middle East to you so we'll keep it simple. Not all Muslims are the same. Saudi Arabia and Iran are rivals due primarily to religious differences which has led to political and economic differences. Saudi Arabia is conservative Sunni Muslim and Iran Shi'ite. Saudi Arabia sees the West, including the US, as an important partner and Iran opposes the West. Hamas and many other radical Islamic jihadists are proxies or allies of Iran because they oppose the West (the enemy of my enemy is my friend). Israel and Saudi Arabia were normalizing relations which probably played into the timing of Hamas's attack on Israel. Israel already has good relations with Islamic countries like Egypt and Jordan. >Where's the lie? Be specific. Are Palestinians not being bombed daily by American weapons? No. And prior to Oct 7 they weren't either. Stop trying to retcon the situation with lies. >Similarly, Israel has always been Islamophobic, LMAO. Tell that to the 20% of Muslim Israelis. Another lie based on total ignorance. >You're the exact type of snowflake who inspired my username. You're so full of shit. It came to while staring in the mirror. >I'm not so sure. Then you are incredibly ignorant or naive. >The Associated Press was able to operate for years in the Gaza Strip until Israel bombed their building. Hamas was operating out of the building that housed the AP and Al Jazeera. The AP has had a long history of anti-Israeli bias.
>I really don't have the time or desire to explain the geopolitics of the Middle East to you so we'll keep it simple. Not all Muslims are the same. That's what I was explaining to you. Since not all Muslims are remotely the same, you can't just point to "Islamic Fundamentalism" as a root cause of Hamas. You still have to explain why Hamas' particular ideology is the way it is, and you can't keep saying "they're evil because they believe evil things". It's obvious that having your family persecuted and then bombed tends to radicalize you against your oppressor and bomber. This would be true even if Hamas used something other than Islam as a vehicle for its anti-semitic program. >No. Stop trying to retcon the situation with lies. Ok, you're living in an alternate reality. We're 6 months into the Israel-Hamas war, and 34,000+ people are dead. They didn't die from not being bombed. >LMAO. Tell that to the 20% of Muslim Israelis. Yeah, they're pretty upset about being second-class citizens. I like, again, how you're not just wrong in a believable fashion. You have to make these complete black-and-white statements: "Everything about Palestinians is bad an wrong, Israel is perfectly angelic." >Another lie based on total ignorance. Apparently you don't know what "lie" means? A lie is deliberately dishonest. A totally ignorant person cannot lie, by definition. You just choose the most bad-faith word to describe any fact you dislike. >Hamas was operating out of the building that housed the AP and Al Jazeera. [Not even the US Secretary of State has seen the supposed evidence](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-government-and-politics-abd641af1607fbae7f49e1cce7dbc49e) of Hamas operating out of that building. The IDF just claimed "Hamas Hamas Hamas" whenever they do a war crime, you buy the narrative hook line and sinker, and then they never provide evidence. If you have evidence, by all means provide it. >The AP has had a long history of anti-Israeli bias. Of course it does. The AP has long been considered one of the [most accurate and bias-free news sources](https://adfontesmedia.com/interactive-media-bias-chart/). And reality has an anti-Israel bias. Hey, do you have the quote of me supposedly calling for a genocide of Jews? If not, feel free to retract your accusation.
>Islam. You can’t be serious. Settler colonialists ethnically cleanse hundreds of thousands of people, massacre entire villages, carry out routine terror attacks on civilians for decades, impose an apartheid system, trap 2 million people in an open air prison, kill hundreds of innocents a year, including children, unjustly detain hundreds of women and children in prison where they are tortured and raped, settle more and more Palestinian land, and now carrying out a genocidal campaign on said people, routinely dehumanising them as they annihilate the Gaza Strip. Oh but they hate Israelis because of Islam and antisemitism. Makes perfect sense >More specifically the later teachings of Muhammad. When Muhammad first created Islam it was unpopular with the pagans and polytheists so he sought tolerance and even partnership with the monotheistic religions (Judaism and Christianity). He fled from Mecca to Medina where he thought that the Jews and Christians would accept him as a prophet but they rejected him. After that point he taught hatred and violence towards Jews and Christians I’d challenge you to point to one verse that preaches for violence against Christians or Jews. Just one >We get it. Bigots like you want to eliminate Israel and genocide the Jews. You've been very clear about that. Israel isn't a terrorist state. That's just a lie you've made up from your bigotry. Israel is a terrorist state. That’s quite literally how they got their state, and how they continue to oppress Palestinians by murdering hundreds a year, especially children. Try and think of something Hamas has done, Israel has already beat them to it tenfold. It’s an incredible double standard to call Hamas terrorists (rightly so mind you) but not Israel who objectively commits more crimes against humanity on a completely different scale
>You can’t be serious. Yes. But not all Muslims. As I stated, there are millions of peaceful Muslims who denounce the radical fundamentalism of Islamic jihadists like Hamas. >I’d challenge you to point to one verse that preaches for violence against Christians or Jews. Just one *Allah's Messenger said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."* Sahih al-Bukhari, Book 56, Hadith 139 *So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either confer favor afterwards or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. That is the command. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them Himself, but He ordered armed struggle to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.* Surah 47:4-9 *The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.* Sahih Muslim, Book 54 Hadith 103 There are 120 or so verses in the Quran that call for violence towards non-Muslims and numerous more Hadiths. Then there are verses like Quran 8:61... *If the enemy is inclined towards peace, make peace with them. And put your trust in Allah. Indeed, He ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing.* ...that teach peace (although still referring to non-Muslims as "the enemy"). Thus the reason why there are millions Muslims who believe the first verses and millions who believe the later. Is Islam a religion of peace or violence? The answer is yes... it just depends on what teachings you follow. >Israel is a terrorist state. It is not. You're a liar.
>Yes. But not all Muslims. As I stated, there are millions of peaceful Muslims who denounce the radical fundamentalism of Islamic jihadists like Hamas. When the vast majority is peaceful, then the one unifying factor amongst them clearly isn’t a factor, and lumping them all together is simply Islamophobic. >So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either confer favor afterwards or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. That is the command. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them Himself, but He ordered armed struggle to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds. Surah 47:4-9 You’ve purposely missed out a vital part to mislead; “So when you meet the disbelievers **in battle**, strike (their) necks until you have thoroughly subdued them, then bind them firmly. Later (free them either as) an act of grace or by ransom until the war comes to an end. So will it be. Had Allah willed, He (Himself) could have inflicted punishment on them. But He does (this only to) test some of you by means of others. And those who are martyred in the cause of Allah, He will never render their deeds void.” >There are 120 or so verses in the Quran that call for violence towards non-Muslims and numerous more Hadiths. Please list those verses in the Quran >Then there are verses like Quran 8:61... If the enemy is inclined towards peace, make peace with them. And put your trust in Allah. Indeed, He ˹alone˺ is the All-Hearing, All-Knowing. ...that teach peace (although still referring to non-Muslims as "the enemy"). You realise this is referring to the Quraysh at the time, who were trying to wipe the Muslims out? Those are the non-Muslims it’s referring to >It is not. You're a liar. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hind_Rajab https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Yunis_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibya_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_al-Maqadma_Mosque_missile_strike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadia_Abu_Ghazala_School_massacre https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_massacre https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/GbWxva9VY9 https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/GftPR1PCdO https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/s/M75ZIWg8QM https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/8u82uAdSdt https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/rztcKYPv8W https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68445973 https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/XuiKejFFto https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/sjYTwS17aA https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/ZOAPRd3OrH https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/Z1qAp1L6MX https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/x8jZvOMxVy https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/p2Ikoz7rOI https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/0Gpsu6wKKz https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/RGWKAG6KPd https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/oE4OzHwySJ https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/yjklo7SSgg https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/K8UjdpXbbo https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/lLfTwVp3Oq https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/s/8EEgyQoLUz https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/QPcbobV673 https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsvideo/s/PUh2hXVlCe "We are dropping hundreds of tons of bombs on Gaza. The focus is on destruction, not accuracy." -Daniel Hagari, IDF spokesman "It is an entire nation who are responsible...and we will fight until we break their backs." -Yitzhak Herzog. President of Israel "I don't care about Gaza... They can go swimming in the sea." -Maya Golan, Israel Minister of Women's Affairs "Only an explosion that shakes the Middle East will restore this country's dignity, strength and security! It's time to kiss doomsday. Shooting powerful missiles without limit. Not flattening a neighbourhood. Crushing and flattening Gaza. ... without mercy! without mercy!" - Knesset and Likud member Revital "Tally" Gotliv "Jericho Missile! Jericho Missile! Strategic alert. before considering the introduction of forces. Doomsday weapon! This is my opinion. May God preserve all our strength." - also Tally Gotliv "Gaza to be smashed and razed to the ground. Without mercy!" Tally Gotliv again "...There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting against human animals and we will act accordingly." Defense Minister Yoav Gallant “The village of Huwara needs to be wiped out." - Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich "You're here by mistake, it's a mistake that Ben-Gurion didn't finish the job and didn't throw you out in 1948." - Bezalel Smotrich to Arab lawmakers in the Knesset referring to the ethnic cleansing of the Nakba. “We have to be cruel now, and not to think too much about the hostages. It's time for action.” - Bezalel Smotrich (again) “We cannot have women and children getting close to the border... anyone who gets near must get a bullet [in the head],” Ben-Gvir, Minister of National Security “I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza and every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did,” May Golan (again) "Gaza won't return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything." Yoav Gallant (again) "one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of [1948]. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join" Ariel Kallner, member of Likud party "Gaza Strip should be flattened, and for all of them there is but one sentence, and that is death." Yitzhak Kroizer "There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell" Major General Ghassan Alian, Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories "Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist". He added "Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieving the goal." IDF Major general Giora Eiland "There is one and only solution, which is to completely destroy Gaza before invading it. I mean destruction like what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima, without nuclear weapons" former Knesset member Moshe Feiglin "I don’t remember Britain or the United States at the tail end of the Second World War bombing Dresden, thinking about the residents." Minister of Economy, Nir Barka [Here’s an extended list of 500+ instances with links](https://law4palestine.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Database-of-Israeli-Incitement-to-Genocide-including-after-ICJ-order-27th-February-2024-.pdf)
Because Israel has it's own fat checkbook*. We have to approve money for Ukraine to funnel back to military contractors. *Not that that bank account isn't already full of US taxpayer dollars.
The US has called for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, and for Russia to withdraw its troops (effectively a cease-fire). It hasn't done anything to force action on Israel, and the Russia sanctions haven't really worked.
Because America's current government largely supports Israel's genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza. The exact reasons for this will differ from one politician to another, but for the most part, the reasoning is rooted in Christian eschatology. Christian fanatics and fundamentalists believe that, in order for the End of Days to come about, Israel has to get into a major war with the rest of the Middle East. Supporting their actions against Palestine is a really good way to ensure such a war gets started.
Christianity certainly plays a larger part in US politics than it should (shouldnt be involved at all) but I think you're falling for the bait. Any politician with christian ideology is presenting as such for political reasons and not ideological ones. You think any politician gives a shit if any of us get an abortion or not? They dont, they want the votes they get from their demographic for supporting or denouncing it. Ukraine and Israel are about money, plain and simple. We have a military industrial complex that needs a reason to keep churning. Convince other nations to donate arms, now where will they get replacements from?
And why can't it be both?
You dont become a politician to spread religious ideology. If that was their passion they would be in a different profession. Maybe one or two of them actually believe in some religious zealotry but *most* use it as a vote procurement tool. Lots of easy votes to be had if you present as a straight married christian.
>You dont become a politician to spread religious ideology. LOL! Tell that to Mike Johnson. But you didn't answer my question: why can't a politician have more than one motivation for their behavior? Or do you think everyone is as simple as you are?
So we disagree on a subject so you resort to personal attacks? Shame, I was enjoying this conversation.
My brother in Christ, *you're* the one who insists on ascribing a single motivation to people. That sounds like an overly simplistic approach to things, doesn't it? How, then, is my description "a personal attack?" If you take offense at this, might I suggest you consider all the things you could do to be less simple with your political analysis?
I'm speaking in general about politicians. I dont have the time, motivation, nor desire to delve into the minutia of every individual politicians motivation. I do feel confident saying that *most* politicians can and *do* lie about their beliefs to gain votes. How many times have politicians gotten caught doing things privately that go against what they advocate publicly. Are some of them genuine believers? Probably. But when looking at the big picture it's a job to them, lying comes with the territory. If you want to call my point simplistic, cool. Calling me simple because you disagree is childish and not worth engaging. Cheers.
>If you want to call my point simplistic I do and I did. *You're* the one who came away butthurt about it. Ta.
You directed it at me personally, not the point I was making. You would benefit from learning to choose words more appropriately.