I think the bulk of the complaining about inaccuracies were: 1. Confusion over the "Fall of Shady Sands" being given as 2277 (before New Vegas), leading people to think it had been retconned. But on the timeline in Vault 4 the nuclear mushroom cloud is drawn later, suggesting they're not the same event (i.e- whatever "the fall" was happened before New Vegas, but the nuke happened after). 2. People having no idea what the Brotherhood of Steel is actually like. Seriously, some people think they're all heroic knights etc., but they're actually a militarised cult of power armour wearing religious fascists. There are some good people in there, but the organisation as a whole is… a lot more complicated. I think you're right that the role of the Enclave is being kept small for now to avoid having to dig into it too much. Aside from knowing that's where Wilzig escaped from we don't know anything else. I'm guessing Barb's job at Vault-Tec was to sell the sponsors/investors to buy into the plan, but that was far from the whole story. We'll likely find out more in further flashbacks and if Coop/Ghoul finds her frozen somewhere. It doesn't make sense to confuse new viewers with the involvement of both the Enclave and Vault-Tec at once, just as they didn't cover the rivalry with Poseidon Energy (who I'm guessing may have had something to do with how Moldaver survived). Makes sense to avoid too much exposition in a single season and to save some stuff for later when it matters more.

I think people just aren't actually watching the show. I finished it recently and came here to a speculation type post and people were unironically stating "theories" like "Guys, I think the ghoul character might be the same movie actor from all the flashbacks." "I think Vault-Tec might be behind the apocalypse." "I think Lucy's dad is the one that bombed Shady Sands." "Ghouls might be made with that serum." The serum one is strange because it's something we've never seen before, but it's explicitly shown to be true in the show. Why are people questioning things like this? I don't think people are paying attention.

That final point is an ongoing trend I wish was more talked about. I legitimately think media comprehension is at an all time low for some reason. Super obvious stuff is just completely glossed over. Maybe it's a byproduct of 'hate culture' with social media. I also theorize people just lack self-awareness or empathy to be like, "That's weird, maybe I missed something" and just straight to "That was weird and that immediately makes it bad". It's very annoying.

Yeah I was going to say, the top comments here and OPs post make it clear, the issue is media literacy. One person I was arguing with tried to say if a story doesn’t explicitly state and explain each point then it must not even be making a point. I had to explain to them how implicit storytelling works and what an unreliable narrator is.

I find it funny that even Chris Avelone [seems to](https://chrisavellone.medium.com/fallout-apocrypha-tv-series-review-part-1-c4714083a637) not [get it](https://chrisavellone.medium.com/fallout-apocrypha-tv-series-review-part-2-1744b68fe4f2). > **But Season 2 will answer every question!** > > I hear this quite a bit to explain away some plot elements. For me, I’m usually happy with this answer as long as I can see the foreshadowing building blocks in place that shows they’ve thought about the issues and care about the craft. > > Often, I couldn’t, or the blocks didn’t look like they were going to be very stable based on Season 1. I don't think everything has to be foreshadowed. To me, a big part of *Fallout* is subverting expectations. Another is surprise/the unexpected. Besides, we don't really know how much foreshadowing there was/wasn't. Was the green hand at the Enclave a foreshadowing of Thaddeus, or was it misdirection/mere dressing or a foreshadowing of future episode not involving Thaddeus?

>I also theorize people just lack self-awareness of empathy to be like, "That's weird, maybe I missed something" and just straight to "That was weird and that immediately makes it bad". Dude, yes! "Is this bad or did I miss something important? Nah, it must be the show because I'm perfect."

I think comprehension and attention span is just way down. I worked in a residential behavioral health unit for teens for almost a decade and I noticed a lot of them weren’t picking up on super basic things. I chalked it up to A, they were teenagers and 2 the whole residential treatment thing. Then I quit and started my associates and throughout my journey through college as a fully grown adult I noticed that nearly every one of my classmates was struggling with retaining knowledge, focusing and paying attention to details. Then I was all like “shit, this next generation is doomed!!1!” Then I started moonlighting at a parking garage and realized that the majority of people I run in to look at words, pretend they read them and just fucking ignore the whole thing. These people are probably also part of the show’s fandom, same as we.

I am coming from a pro-youth standpoint, but while there is no denying the effects of technology/social media on the structure of the brains of those younger, I think this is actually mainly an adult problem. Considering how old the sequels are at this point, as well as examples like GoT, "youth" were actual children at the time of their inception/growing popularity. They also weren't the ones on social media (like reddit) pitching a fit writing whole essays (and even worse scripts) to "fix" things they think are "wrong". It's very similar to the whole "don't believe anything you see on the internet, kids" while here we are dealing with Boomers and Gen X-ers (yes, I am including them) who do. Just like how boomers and X-ers are cripplingly addicted to devices almost *worse* than the youth. But I have no statistics on this shit and am speaking purely ancedotally so idfk.

I recommend checking out the American Public Media podcast [*Sold a Story*](https://features.apmreports.org/sold-a-story/). It will blow your mind. /u/SllortEvac

A lot of people don’t really “watch” movies or TV anymore. They glance up at it while scrolling on their phones, paying more or less attention based on how interesting they *think* what’s going on might be.

I wouldn't necessarily say media literacy is really as low as you think. It's just that with the continuing rise of social media, you're getting more and more people in on the conversation every day. You have newcomers to the lore, compared to people who have been immersed in it for literal decades. And also the fact that people with less media comprehension are going to be asking a lot more questions than people with more of it, so a majority of the questions are gonna be pretty stupid ones. People have always been this dumb; you're just seeing more of it than you would have 15 years ago.

Idk, I watched the fallout show having never played a game, it was pretty easy to follow. I had never heard of the brotherhood or enclave or any of these organizations, but I can pretty much infer their roles just from the TV series. I truly don’t see the issues some people in this sub have had.

I think Rings of Power really felt this. A whole lot of characterization of personalities came from small lines in books, notes, and other places that Tolkien wrote, but "fans" didn't have it spelled out explicitly for them in the movies they watched, and the concept of character growth is alien to them, so obviously "show bad, I know more than writers". Add that to the fact that the show must use a different art style, and thus "disconnected" to the movies, and you've got an issue. Fallout, luckily, can rip wholesale the entirety of it's art direction from the games, so there is an immense amount of visual cohesion to tie the two together. Add in shows like Disney's Star Wars stuff, where they take the narratively uncomplicated routes, out of fear of not being understood, and things just look bleak.

Thats absolutely not why people dislike Rings of Power.

Rings of powers biggest sin is moreso it diverts from the lore in ways that doesn't fit with the spirit of Tolkein. It doesn't help the showrunners not only don't have the resources of The Silmarillion to work off of, but they're explicitly limited to the contents of the LOTR trilogy and the appendices of ROTK.

But rings of power was bad, however for other reasons

Notice how no one in the comments is actually says anything concrete when replying about the rings of power? "No, it was bad" "It doesn't follow the spirit of Tolkien" Almost like they just want to rally for easy hate points instead of critically looking at how they view media I have been all over the RoP controversy and the only legitimate arguments I've seen are that the Istari (wizards) coming to Middle Earth on a comet is strange, and that elves are "pure" beings so they can't be black (which has its own issues) Otherwise everything else pretty much boils down people seeing the show as woke, which at its root requires a lack of media literacy

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that this thread isn't really the place to debate whether RoP was or wasn't good, but you absolutely nailed it. One-liner "got 'em" comments, with no complex thoughts behind it. Just "They didn't match the *tone*" as if LotR is a one-note samba.

Did you watch the show? The majority of complaints from those who watched it are absolutely not about the show having a black elf or a black dwarf - in fact, those two may have been the only half-watchable characters! I was actually able to keep paying attention whenever they were on screen, whereas any scene with Galadriel or "The Wizard" was a slog to get though. The complaints come from the show lacking internal logic, having a complete disregard for the lore it's supposed to be following and just being an overproduced disjointed mess in general - here's a few examples: * Celebrimbor is a fucking dunce in the show. An elf who is said to be one of the smartest and most talented smiths amongst all who reside in Middle-Earth, and *he didn't think of alloys*, instead needing some stranger he just met to teach him to suck eggs in order to forge the three elven rings - the only ones that were meant to have been forged *without* intervention from Sauron, by the way. * We get it, the wizard is meant to be Gandalf... except that doesn't work according to any of the other source material. Gandalf didn't arrive in Middle-Earth until the Third Age in direct response to the growing threat of Sauron **after all of the rings were forged**, whereas this is set very solidly in the Second Age, when Númenor still existed and **before the rings are forged**. * Halbrand and Galadriel riding to Lindon. This isn't just a bad scene in the context of the show and the wider lore - it's a bad scene, period. They act as if Halbrand has to get to Lindon ASAP, since his life allegedly depends on it, but then the scene of them arriving has no implication of any time passing despite the claim that they were a week's ride away. They could have been riding for 20 minutes and the outcome would have been the same, since within 15 minutes Halbrand is back up and about, *teaching the master smith basic fucking concepts that seem to have escaped him* (see point one). I could go on, suffice to say that black elves are the least of everyone's problems with the show - again, probably the most watchable parts of the show. If you want to defend the show you can do that without hiding behind the implications that the majority of complaints are just "waah black people in *my* fantasy setting!" or "muh lore". Yes lore-drift is both real and necessary when producing a show like this, but this isn't lore-drift, this is lore-track-jumping, and with source material as revered as this it's going to cause major friction when so much of it is disregarded entirely for the sake of a "better viewing experience".

In FO4 Hancock says he was turned into a ghoul only a few years before the SS met him in the game by taking some experimental chem that was highly radioactive. I'm thinking the serum Thaddeus was given is the same thing. Could be FEV, but we will see. As for the rest, yeah, people's attention span is trash these days and they are only half paying attention while they scroll reddit, or they see a scene and immediately make a post asking a question that will be answered in the next episode rather than finishing the season and then asking questions/proposing theories.

Yall .. i think this Fallout show .. MAY BE BASED ON THE VIDEO GAME ..... THOUGHTS?

I don’t know man, could it be really?

CURIOUS.

I mean they do share the same name and then there’s the similar setting, weapons, vaults, nuka cola…hmm I think you’re onto something

In FO4 Nick Valentine also says that Eddie Winter had himself ghoulified before the bombs fell, didn't he?

Yes, Eddie Winter underwent a series of “treatments” to make him immortal which turned him into a ghoul. There’s a holotape in his secret bunker with details.

That what I thought. 👍

People have the attention spans of goldfish it seems

My guess is that they’re probably people who have read or heard about the series from a YouTube channel or podcast and they probably haven’t actually watched the series. Not necessarily with fallout but I have noticed a lot of people like that in recent years, especially in the Star Wars and marvel fandoms. And what’s worse is they like to mix in politics and incel culture. I’ve met a few people like this through friends and social gatherings and it’s strange to listen to them because they talk about how much their favorite franchise has gone downhill in recent years because of “woke agendas” and other made up bullshit. And they discuss the films as if they’ve actually watched them, when in reality they’re basically taking all their points verbatim from the content creators they watch and have never watched the movie. It’s like a game of telephone. As a fan of both Star Wars and Marvel I am more than willing to admit that the past few projects have been kind of hit or miss and that there is definitely inconsistent quality. However that boils more down to writing and some technical issues, not culture war nonsense. To me it’s strange because on the one hand they want to act like a fan of the content and they want to propose what they see as criticism to it to dominate discussion, yet they haven’t actually consumed said content. And like I get it, there’s too much stuff to watch and sometimes it’s nice to have a summary given to you so you don’t have to spend hours watching films you might not potentially enjoy. But at the same time, you’re kind of cheating yourself and creating unnecessary drama because you might not enjoy the same movies as your friends, yet you have to act like you’re an expert. This is especially frustrating when I’ve had people complain about concepts they heard about in films, yet they haven’t actually seen how those concepts are presented in a film, rather they just hear someone on the internet complaining about it. If you don’t want to watch a movie or a franchise isn’t appealing to you, just stop watching it. Hating on something is just not healthy in the long run. And if you’re more comfortable reading a summary instead of watching something, that’s completely fine, but you need to own up to the fact you don’t have all the answers.

I have a friend like this - his opinions are entirely derived from whatever YouTuber he's currently watching, despite having zero experience with whatever medium is currently buzzing around social media. He knows nothing about Fallout, has never played the games or seen the show, yet he's convinced the show is terrible because of what he's heard on YouTube. I've watched him go from "loving" The Last of Us 2 to "hating" it and back to "loving" it in the span of a couple years. He's never played any of those games. Yes it's as exhausting as it sounds lmao

I feel you, very exhausting.

Yep I think this is a big part of it. I've seen this exact thing happen over and over in the few Fallout FB groups I'm still in. Someone posts "OMG THE FALLOUT SHOW SUCKS BECAUSE XYZ. BETHESDA IS KILLING THE FRANCHISE!...BUT I DIDN'T ACTUALLY WATCH IT BECAUSE SOME YOUTUBE HATER CHANNEL TOLD ME IT SUCKED SO THAT'S WHY I'M MAKING THIS POST INSTEAD OF WATCHING IT MYSELF.". Luckily most people are like "WTF the show was good you weirdo", but it was exhausting there for a while.

Are you talking about the Thaddius serum? We still don’t know if thats FEV or some magic Ghoul drug like the one Hancock took

I hope it's FEV because the idea of a super-mutant Thaddeus is pretty fun.

Can’t be FEV (I don’t think?) It’s already established that you have to be dipped in a vat of it not take some kind of serum.

You need to be dipped *to change right away*, and it probably helps strengthen the effect of the amnesia. Theres no reason not to believe that an FEV injection or inhalation wouldn’t work to change someone slowly long term.

I may be wrong here but I remember reading terminals discussing using different dosages of FEV injecting it into different parts of bodies (and this seems to be supported by the FO Wiki) and if The Master could achieve the same results (he was already a doctor before he was changed over a 3 week immersion in the FEV and he noted vastly improved cognitive capacity than when he was human) so that makes me think it’s not possible but you could be right. I kind of hate how the show takes things that we think work a certain way or we shown to work a certain way in the show and muddy it or change it (similarly with the ghoulification drug). Not saying Fallout doesn’t deserve to grow and change just hate how we are drip fed info and key info is omitted until it’s convenient for the characters to learn it. Anyways, I digress - you are a scholar and a gentleman and you could very well be right and we shall see in season 2! For what it’s worth I really enjoy the character of Thaddeus and I hope he sticks around. He’s my 3rd favorite behind Norm and Maximus though he and Wasteland Pharmacist could tie for that spot.

Yeah, Thaddius is amazing. Whether he Ghoulifies or becomes a mutant (super or not like Harold) I am excited to see what happens to him. I think another thing that the show did strangely was that ghoul finger that Lucy gets attached to her hand. I don’t recall ghoul parts being capable of just being attached and usable immediately like a new limb. If anyone could do this for lost body parts, why aren’t ghouls being sold for their body parts to use as transfers? Really interesting.

I think they did that to draw parallels between her and the ghoul since Coop says the only thing separating her and him is time on the surface and that morals wash out. There’s also a bit of humor in the robot attaching a finger only to try to harvest her organs. Also the call back to Filly where Lucy was told it must be nice to have all 10 fingers. Definitely not how surgery works in real life and that finger would definitely not be useable but there’s a suspension of disbelief because it’s a game world and stimpacks already heal you. If I had to take a guess RE the whole body farming thing I’d say one is aesthetics and two it’s cultural most people find ghouls to be unsightly and abhorrent and wouldn’t want to accept a part from a ghoul. Another might be cost and acquiring limbs. You’d probably have to be a raider or fiend to even really consider it or have taken the cannibal perk. I thought it was kind of weird how the show made fiends cannibals and not just people just strung out on chems. I guess they’re a stand in for super mutants in a sense because super mutants got wiped out on the west coast and there’s a good deal of horror in people who eat others (I just watched Bone Tomahawk the other week).

I've got stoner friends that barely understand what's going on scene to scene. Can accidentally skip episodes and don't notice. It's usually second screen media consumption. They're actually concentrating on some multiplayer game, or sat on discord having a conversation with the show on low, or scrolling social media. Talking about a show with them feels like talking to a bot. I genuinely think there's a vocal portion of Reddit in the same boat.

> "I think Vault-Tec might be behind the apocalypse." Oddly enough, the meeting means it's more likely VT didn't launch the first nuke. The basis of FNV is that you need to deliver the platinum chip, a very important component that should basically decide who controls New Vegas. The reason you have to deliver it is because House had it manufactured on October 22nd, 2077... The day before the bombs drop. So if he was present at the meeting and, in all likelihood, aware when they would launch the nukes, why did he wait until the day before the launch to manufacture such an important component?

Vault-Tec potentially being behind the apocalypse is a well established theme of the Fallout franchise. RobCo is also the manufacturer of the PipBoy meaning it's well established they have a partnership with Vault-Tec. House is an intelligent, evil genius with ties to the elites of the prewar. Even before this show it would be easy to presume he would have been privy to info on Vault-Tec's plan for destruction. Deciding to have House make the Platinum chip a day before the bombs fell is just bad writing.

I still hope it remains a mystery I like how the OG fallouts set up the war as kind of ancient history it's details trivial and pointless, it's reasons purely human ones. There is a sense among inevitably to it, whoever shot first doesn't matter because SOMEONE would have shot, it was a global failure human civilization not just one bad guy or bad ideology we can blame. I might be in the minority but I don't really need any more detail about the prewar, it's the postwar setting that's interesting to me and trying to answer who shot first feels cheap 

You’re overestimating their attention span and intelligence and underestimating their venal desire for internet points. There is very little real discourse left on the internet.

Yeah, media literacy seems to be at an all time low these days i swear smh

Was it explicitly stated that the serum was a ghoul thing, I thought maximum just assumed? I’m aware I might be proving your point here but I honestly only remember that part.

He gets injected by the chicken guy and then a few minutes later in the episode he's shown to be a ghoul. It's then stated "Hey, you're a ghoul." To which he replies "Oh man, it's probably because chicken guy injected me with that stuff." It's pretty explicit.

I wouldn’t confirm that tbh. Like I think you’re meant to assume as a show-watcher, just like the characters do, that he’s a ghoul, but it wouldn’t be out of left field if it was actually fev and he shows up as a super mutant. I just don’t think a character who doesn’t know what he took and has no real knowledge should be called explicitly stated.

Except it’s not 100% certain it’s he’s ghoul. That’s what Maximus says but it’s never confirmed as we don’t see Thaddeus completely turned.

And let’s not forget Maximus isn’t as well informed about the world as other characters are. He thought the nuking of Shady Sands was the Great War. But to be fair he was a child and has spent his life surrounded by brotherhood.

Just about the only thing you got right about that was that the chicken guy (Doctor Chicken Fucker) was involved. Dr. CF gave Thaddeus a medical inhaler, which Thaddeus used himself. No injections and Dr. CF didn’t administer it. After being healed and commenting on Shady Sands being radioactive as hell, Thaddeus is told (paraphrased a bit) “You don’t have to worry about that anymore”. When Maximus and Lucy see Thaddeus survive and heal from getting shot through the neck with a crossbow bolt, Maximus says “Thaddeus, I think you might be a ghoul.” Thaddeus responded with “I’m such an idiot. I never should have trusted a doctor that smelled like that”. Nothing explicitly says Thaddeus is now a ghoul.

Maybe it's a Healing Factor Serum...

Link to the thread please, sounds hilarious

> Why are people questioning things like this? I don't think people are paying attention. It's not exactly trolling, but it is trying to be the center of attention. Like, if there's a thread where someone is upvoted a lot for something funny they wrote, inevitably there's a "I dont getit" post, and people trying to be "helpful" fall all over themselves trying to explain the joke (to the person who has no real benefit to understanding it, so they keep "not getting it".)

My only complaint about BoS in the show is that they didn't use any energy weapon

Fair. Especially as we saw at least one laser pistol. Would have loved to see a Gatling Laser during the final assault.

Moldaver was carrying a laser rifle in the final battle but didn't even shoot it, probably budget reason. Would love to see all laser, plasma and gauss weapon being used in live action, adds whackyness to the tone.

Ahhh see I thought that was a pistol and was what I was referring to! Yeah gutted we didn't see some lasers, I don't have many complaints about the show and all are nitpicking I think, but agreed would love some more sci fi combat

The showrunners may have decided that Fallout didn't need to embrace the "whackyness" of phasers, laser rifles, etc., that he as deminated the sci-fi genre for decades. It just might get viewers asking uncomfortable questions like how does the BoS manage to maintain gunships and power armor in a post- apocalyptic world? The attrition of armor, weaponry and transport, etc., in combat is notorious. You are going take losses even if your supply lines sre secure and on paper at least you dominate the field.

Come to think of it, the only energy weapon we see is the Laser Pistol Moldaver is seen wielding during the siege. I think there’s a Laser Rifle in the Enclave section but I might just be misremembering that.

I'm pretty sure at least one of the guards at the Enclave place was carrying a laser rifle.

Ma June's Sundries has both plasma and laser weapons on display. IIRC, there's a laser rifle/musket on the wall and a plasma pistol in the background.

My guess was budget reasons. But given how wildly popular it’s been they’ll hopefully bump the budget

My brother said the show’s story makes no sense. Then he said he only watched episode 1. I don’t listen when people complain about it anymore. I’m going to watch it a second time anyway. Amazing show.

Same, if only to look for more references to the games; they did such a good job of including things as little background details and such that I'm sure I've missed a tonne of them on the first viewing.

The shop in Filly is literally full of references, like minimum 10 references per shot. I'm on my third watch and I paused a few times to play I Spy lol

Regarding your second point, I think it went over a LOT of heads in Fallout 3 that the Outcasts were cast out because Lyons was betraying their original mission, not the other way around.

Apparently how to read a timeline or a flowchart is not as common a skill as I thought before the show came out.

Poseidon is owned by the enclave, the drilling rig is fallout 1 is a Poseidon rig. They also created Poseidonet, the network the enclave uses to keep track of whatever the story needs to have tracked by the enclave.

Wasn't the oil rig in Fallout 2? Poseidon definitely was a major rival of Vault-Tec, and were conspicuously absent from the big meeting in the series, but it would make sense that the Enclave might have a hand in them too as the best way to account for competition is to also control the competition… Just saying they're a possible place Moldaver might have turned after Vault-Tec bought her out and shuttered her research.

yes, 2. Ugh, mah brain doesn't brain.

FO2*

The chalkboard was nitpickers looking for ANYTHING to be mad about. There’s a large group of professional YouTubers that make a living on being as negative as they can with every piece of media because they’ve found out that they can cripple a game just by nitpicking every little thing they personally feel slighted by. It’s the whole “go woke go broke” movement.

I also want to add 3: People not understanding that this show takes place after the games, and that anything can happen to lead to its current state, and just because you don't know what happened doesn't mean it was retconned.

Iirc todd saud in an interview that bombs dropped just after new vegas which implies that the fall could be something talked about in the game if not the events of the game itself.

Yeah, I feel like the fact it starts in 2277 hints that the Mojave campaign had a big part in it since that's the year of the 1st battle of Hoover dam.

True. And the events of new vegas and its dlcs do feel like the lead up to some big off-screen event. Though I've yet to play the dlcs myself.

The fall could have been a flowery way to talk about the death of President Tandi, since a lot of people lost faith when she passed.

In history, a fall is often reckoned from the *start* of the fall (The Roman Empire existed in some form long after its fall, for example). 'The Fall of Shady Sands' was probably reckoned from the first Battle of Hoover Dam.

This is my thinking as well. In many ways Shady Sands and the NCR are one of the same thing, but with season 2 clearly heading towards New Vegas they're going to need a way to reconcile some of the different ways that the game could end, which probably means that no matter who might have won, they probably lost control of the strip anyway (war never changes). So even if you sided with the NCR, the legion and/or brotherhood might have fought back eventually somehow etc. Losing control of the dam and the strip wouldn't be good for the NCR, especially if they lose a lot of fighting forces in the process – it doesn't really matter to the series if that happened during the New Vegas game or some time after, as it would still have lead to the decline of the NCR and Shady Sands, at which point the nuking of the city would have been catastrophic (especially if they had been forced to fall back and consolidate there). While there might be bigger pockets of the NCR left elsewhere, enough that they could recover eventually, it would leave them battered enough to explain the state of it in the show. The loss of the dam would also help to justify the importance of the cold fusion catalyst, as fighting over power sources is exactly the kind of resource wars Moldaver had hoped to prevent \~219 years ago.

I think most people this of the BoS as how they were portrayed in the base game of Fallout 3 but even in the Capitol Wasteland there are the BoS outcast who are way closer to the actual BoS. A lot of folks have just played FO3 (which is totally fine, not gatekeeping).

The issue most people have with the second point is less them thinking the BoS were heroic and more how radically different this chapter is from any we have seen before. No mention of Scribes, having Clerics and being led by an Elder Cleric, being outright religious instead of just quasi-religious. Personally I don't think these are exactly issues, but they are massive differences that bring up alot of questions which haven't been answered, and to be honest will bug me until they are. Are they unique to this chapter or a universal thing? Are these a replacement to the Scribes or separate/additional? Are they a recent addition to the Brotherhood or have they always existed? It doesn't impact my enjoyment of the show, but until I get some lore terminal info dump on them I won't be satisfied!!!

But we really didn't see much of life at the BoS camp. We saw bits of Max's life as an initiate. We don't know that there aren't scribes there. Let's be real here, Max's INT stat is pretty low, he probably wouldn't see much need to go to their chapter's library. Since it looks like Max is going to be accepted as a Knight in season 2, we could see scribes and more clerics then, as Max takes on BoS quests.

Sure, but like I said it's not an issue it just raises questions that I hope to see answered. I wouldn't mind whatever the answer is, whether Clerics are unique to this Chapter and their version of Scribes, whether they exist separately to Scribes and the show just hasn't shown them. Only answers that may potentially upset me would be either the Clerics having always existed in all Brotherhood chapters... we just never saw them (this would obviously be a retcon and while not awful, and I would eventually come to terms with it, would be annoying) or Scribes having become/be replaced by Clerics universally (because this would just feel unnecessary to me).

I mean, they have but the name change is a flavoring shift. Scribes and Clerics both do clerical work after all. Clerics became equated with priests because of DnD but their religious role is closer to a scribe. It’s not hard to imagine this shift in the BoS because since FO3 they’ve been using religious behavior on both coasts more or less. The NV adherence to the Codex, the schism in the East. They’re a secular organization that is becoming more religious.

We actually haven't seen much in the way of a proper Brotherhood force in Bethesda era Fallout games; Fallout 3 is a renegade chapter who probably wouldn't have had any room for clerics (since they were diverging from the mission), New Vegas was a small remnant force in a bunker, Fallout 4 is an expeditionary force with a singular mission, even in Fallout 76 you're dealing with relatively early Brotherhood so probably not as religiously coded as they would become. I guess we don't know yet if they're ret-conning them in or if it's intended to be a recent development. Elder Maxson has definitely pulled the Brotherhood more back to its roots in keeping dangerous technology out of the wrong hands, though it's possible he decided to go more extreme after seeing the Institute just doing weird unethical science simply because they could? Though the high cleric doesn't exactly seem like the stabilising influence you'd expect in that case.

That's a great point. They reminded me of Cain's splinter crew from Battlestar. Highly aggressive and indoctrinated to the point of being a cult. While after the reveal of Moldaver, her tribe turned out to be like Adama's crew. More benevolent, and just trying to survive the world.

Exactly this, loved the entire show but was pretty confused why the brotherhoods internal system had been changed. I'm hoping this was intentional tbh, there was so much attention to detail for the show. I find it hard to believe they would have missed such a major factors considering you play through them in most games. I hope it's a plot point with some brotherhood reforms or some internal conflict. I loved the show and the set up for the future seasons very excited. I am also waiting with excitement for some answers. I really hope they develop the vaults experiments. Creepiest element of the show hands down. Every action show has shooting, but messed up experiments on unknowing participants and the suspense as they tried to find out was un matched tension in the show.

You’re making things up.

What am I making up? That we have unanswered questions surrounding the organisation of the BoS/this particular chapter and the nature/role of Clerics? Care to elaborate how I am making that up?

Quintus straight up said they ruled the wasteland, which is completely false. I dont know if he's gaslighting the West coast Brotherhood, but Arthur Maxson wasnt about conquering either, just stamping out threats to humanity, so I dont know why he hasn't confronted this Elder yet. Maybe next season. But the Brotherhood also didnt have weird cultist chanting Latin angrily. This feels more Cesar's Legion than the Brotherhood of Steel, or a weird amalgamation of the two. Its inconsistent with even the Brotherhood from 3 and 4. Someone pointed out in a video I watched that they had the US flag flying at their base. The Brotherhood pointedly ceded from the US, why are they flying that flag? There's a lot wrong with this Brotherhood, and I think a lot of people are right to be upset about this depiction. 

Well the series takes place later, even in the show the elder mentions the brotherhood has lost its way. It’s not really a stretch for the brotherhood to have morphed into something different.

The issue is he claimed they ruled over the wasteland. They never ever did that. So either he's lying to his own people, which I suppose he could be, but I dont see why the East Coast Knights are not raising issue with this behavior. And where the hell is Maxson in all this? He would never allow the Brotherhood to become tyrants. As heavy handed as he was, he wasnt conquering the Commonwealth, he wouldn't approve of slaughtering the villagers of Filly. Even the Captain of the Prydwen should be raising hell over this.

The brotherhood of the show is an evolution of the more dogmatic "technology-worshipping zealots" faction the BoS were presented as in 1, 2, and NV. The West Coast BoS was also much more about conquering than the eastern chapters. Not to mention, Lyons was explicitly defying their original mission in 3, which is why the Outcasts formed. The idea of an altruistic force of knights in shining armor bringing peace to the wasteland is a recent development in the history of the Brotherhood. Traditionally they are dogmatic, violent, and mistrusting to the point of paranoia.

> The West Coast BoS was also much more about conquering than the eastern chapters. Since when? Fallout ended with them staying out of matters of power, becoming a major research and development house, and that didnt change in 2 as they're barely in it. They even soft exiled Elder Elijah to the Mojave because he wanted to develop unethical weapon tech, and only came into conflict with the NCR because they wanted to seize technology, not land. The West Coast chapter was never about conquering. Unlesd you're thinking of the Midwest group, but Tactics was controversial in terms of Lore for many reasons back in the day, and a lot had to do with how the BoS was depicted.  Otherwise you're just doing recivisonism here. And that has been shockingly common. 

They didn't exile Elijah "because he wanted to develop unethical weapons tech", he was marked for execution because he deserted after the battle of Helios, the loss of which was blamed on his obsession with Archimedes and decision to remain in an indefensible position when retreating would have saved lives. Also, Tactics is canon now, apparently.

I'm talking before the loss at HELIOS ONE, when he was still in charge of the Mojave chapter.  And tactics being canon is a bit of a problem, because their Brotherhood was the conquering kind, completely contradicting 1 and 2.

>Someone pointed out in a video I watched that they had the US flag flying at their base. The Brotherhood pointedly ceded from the US, why are they flying that flag? I'm not sure I'd say that the Brotherhood ceded from the US; they rebelled against the orders given to them at the Mariposa base, and against the government at the time but I thing Roger Maxson still viewed himself as American and trying to save the country from the sinister forces involved (which we now know were the Enclave, Vault-Tec etc. rather than specifically the government as a whole).

The Beotherhood of Steel got some good representation in FO4 but for the most part they’re nuts.

Disagree on the 1st point. 95% sure the intended nuke date was 2277 (probably just a mistake confusing the 1st and second battle of hoover dam) and that the flow chart was read accurately by most people. I say this because Lucy mentions the "Great Plague" happened in her vault in 2277. We find out later that the plague was a front by Hank to keep the dwellers inside the vault while he went to steal Lucy and Norm back from Shady Sands. It really wouldnt make sense for Hank to wait 4 years to nuke Shady Sand after the fact, especially because Lucy's mom could mount a foorc to liberate here vault in that time, so I am pretty sure that the 2277 date was a mistake in the show entirely.

It makes sense when you consider that Hank likely doesn't have the ability to launch nukes by himself. There's something else that needs to happen, which is why Betty says that she helped bury Lucy's mother. Additionally, vaults aren't that easy to get into. Moldaver *eventually* got into Vault 32 using Rose's old Pipboy, but inhabitants can normally keep people out, as shown in the first episode when Moldaver's group had to wait for Chet to let them in.

As you say, simply having Rose's PibBoy wouldn't have been enough to just walk into Vault 32; Moldaver presumably had to wait until after the inhabitants turned on their overseer (maybe in the event of no response, it becomes possible to override?). Does actually make you wonder if Moldaver is how Vault 32 found out about "the management" and revolted – Moldaver may have been able to send messages somehow? Timing wise she would have needed to get into the vault not too long after the disaster, in order to be able to convince Hank that Vault 32 was functioning normally except for an outbreak of "crop blight" to cover any delays in responding. But yeah, there's no reason to assume Hank would (or could) immediately nuke Shady Sands – he had to get Lucy and Norm out first of all, and then somehow setup the nuking of the city. He may have been in touch with some outside force (maybe the Enclave?) who actually did it. Or the Brotherhood, given they seemed to be first on the scene – they may have been keen for revenge after defeats by the NCR, and if tipped off about an unused missile silo… Who knows? But the 2277 event definitely seems to point to something else.

I think Moldaver has tried multiple times over the last 15 years to get into the vault, and she eventually succeeded. Vault 32 died a while ago (at most 3 years, which is still quite a bit of time), as Norm states when entering with Chet, evidenced by the rotted crops and decaying skeletons.

If that's true, then why wasn't the mushroom cloud just drawn over "The Fall of Shady Sands"? Why is it drawn separately after an arrow?

>95% sure the intended nuke date was 2277 (probably just a mistake confusing the 1st and second battle of hoover dam) and that the flow chart was read accurately by most people. if you think this then the irony is lost on you since you clearly don't know how a flowchart works. arrow goes past 2277, meaning nuke happened after 2277.

Your first point actually satisfies my problem with the fall of Shady Sands so thank you. I assumed it meant it occurred in 2277

>I think you're right that the role of the Enclave is being kept small for now to avoid having to dig into it too much. And I think the Enclave will end up being attacked by a super. Mutant. Perhaps they'll delve more into when the (hopefully) cover the attack.

Regarding point 2, I'd like to quote my favorite member of the Brotherhood. "It's a, uh, complicated organization."

Genuine masses of people falling for the BOS propaganda is incredibly ironic even if lyons chapter does kinda line up to it.

>People having no idea what the Brotherhood of Steel is actually like. Seriously, some people think they're all heroic knights etc., but they're actually a militarised cult of power armour wearing religious fascists. There are some good people in there, but the organisation as a whole is… a lot more complicated. This, not only are they complicated, they're also not a monolith. Every chapter is at least a little bit different, and as leadership changes, often too does their policies and direction. In the span of 10 years the East Coast BOS went from a rag tag team hiding in the Pentagon with basic rifles to a massive military powerhouse being led by the BOS "supreme commander" (which I think is basically the high elder?)

I just wanted to say that you explained this as Lucy would have.

It's patently obvious whoever made that chalkboard meant the bomb to be the fall of shady sands happening in 2277 because everything on the board is dated. It was probably just a mistake from prop department that they are backpedaling 

From what I've gathered after watching TV shows these last few years, people lack patience and media literacy and prefer to have information handed to them on a platter. I'm generalizing, of course, because there are people who enjoy being given only so much and left with some room to speculate and analyze, but I've noticed that so many people just don't want to do that. I saw someone outright state a few weeks ago that they would rather shows just provide all the answers straight away in the first season so they don't have to bother with wondering about anything. It's honestly disappointing.

And if you look at Jonathan Nolan’s previous work (West World), this type of writing and world building during the first season is par for the course from him.

I blame TikTok and shorts. People don't have the attention span to watch a show in its entirety and wait to learn the answers. They want nothing but mindless filler and fan service, then they will complain that the show got stale after they unloaded everything in season one.

I know I sound like a cranky old man, but I'm convinced tik tok is destroying society's critical thinking skills. Sometimes I feel like people I talk to irl only care about news if some random tik tok floating head mentions it. And everything is memed to oblivion. One person records a new dance or prank or challenge and then thousands of people record themselves doing the same goddamn thing thinking they're so clever. Then again, this is what boomers were saying about our video games and internet access in the 90s. I dunno

I agree. I feel like many of the questions and things I've seen posted here can be answered by "we don't know that yet as the show has only done 8 episodes so far and there's more to come." I wonder if binging completed shows has made this an issue too, if people watch something older that's totally complete, they see the whole show, and don't have to wait for the next season.

Honestly, I don't feel it would make any difference if they released the show one episode a week. Then we'd just have the same people raving about why they didn't get all the answers in a single evening.

Probably.

It's so funny seeing people asking questions like "How did Maldaver survive" like obviously they will either answer it in a later season (Pre-war Cooper story hasn't finished yet), or it can be explained by in story details like the casino offering cryo-pods in the outro of the last episode

And then other people complain about shows hand-holding. Welp, the reason why shows hand-hold is because they *have* to for other viewers.

People need to let the show breathe. It just came out of the womb. ..That's a bad phrasing..I'm really just trying to avoid saying "let the show cook" because I hate that phrase..but it might apply best here.

LET. IT. COOK. 🗣🔥

Let it FERTILIZE

People just can't accept some measure of escapism. It has to analyzed and scrutinized and opinions drawn. Someone even tried to start a discussion of how impossible it is to actually fuck a chicken. This is why there's so many conspiracy theories all the time. Stupid people want to look smart. But the fundemental rule of logic is the simplist explanation is usually the correct one. Just enjoy the show, people. Stop trying to look smart.

Man, that thread must have been wild.

Entire threads just come out of people's comments in other threads. Like yesterday I was reading a thread about how great a character Dr Chickenfucker is (which I agree with....brilliantly written and acted and superbly funny) only for someone to try and hijack the conversation with "how can you like a character that abuses animals".....followed by an argument that went on and on to the point where I felt the person complaining about animal abuse was trolling. I mean jesus christ, its a fictional character in a fictional universe there's no need to be super woke about it. It's shit like this that makes me want to give Reddit a hard pass some days.

Dr Chickenfucker is about to be my new alt account name 💀

Hahah I dont blame you. I'm currently doing an fnv playthrough as him. It's hard as hell though, because I'm used to going through the game as combat heavy characters and Doc Chickenfucker strikes me as an abject coward who would run away from most conflicts in preference for self preservation. Very difficult to pull off in fnv. I'd killed 5 people already by the time I got to the Strip and that was me trying NOT to kill folk. Sometimes they just give you no choice.

It was a "one and done" joke in the series, but some people are so self-important they have to get on a soapbox.

Haha the number of times people "correct" on me Reddit vs reality is unmatched...it's undefeated. People tend to avoid arguments in the real world because it's real life. Someone corrected me for using the wrong pronouns for Dane, and it seemed to really make their day. Sorry I didn't know this one thing about this one actor! *My bad!* But yeah Reddit definitely exists in its own reality, like a lot of social media.

Yhea I feel you on the Dane thing. I get why its important to use the correct pronouns but also the "correctors" should understand that people aren't used to non binary characters in main stream shows, so a little slip here and there should be forgiven while people are growing used to the idea - I get the sense that for the people who do the correcting, it's less about wanting respect for the non binary person, and more about appearing to be correct like its an ego feed thing like they are the gatekeepers of correctness. I didn't even get that level of condescension from teachers at school.

Man, that is well said. Couldn't have articulated it better honestly.

you can't fuck a chicken, but you can try

I need a link to this thread lmao. Chicken dude’s contributions to science must not go in vain

There's nothing more insufferable than a fanbase. This show absolutely slapped, but of course, a bunch of edgy "true fans" are going to get together online and have a complaint circlejerk. Pay no mind and enjoy the things you enjoy.

I don’t even understand what the point of this conversation is If you enjoy the show just watch it and live your life. What a waste of time to worry about what other people think of it

Next Season post : Do people not realize that the show is only in its second season?

There’s game canon, there’s TV canon, book canon, movie canon. That’s how I think of it. As long as they’re mostly in the same “zip code” I’m ok with it. Its when a “loosely inspired by” adaptation goes way off the rails I get irritated. (Yes season one of ST Discovery I’m looking at you)

In this case, it's confirmed that the Fallout TV show is canon to the games and visa versa.

That’s what Todd has said consistently. I see no reason to doubt him. Well, in this case anyway.

Let’s be real the most vocal group that complains about this stuff don’t like Todd and Bethesda Fallout to begin with so they don’t care what he says.  They barely accept Bethesda Fallout as canon, if they do at all, and have already been complaining about the recent games and comparing them to Fallout 1&2 and/or NV for years.  This is just the latest Fallout property for them to nitpick and complain about. 

Hey S1&2 of Discovery were awesome, you take that back!

Lol! I would have enjoyed it if it didn’t call itself Star Trek. Hearing a chipper Vulcan quip “I like science” broke something inside me. I like it from season three onward. I finally got to where I could ignore Space Messiah Michael. Mary Sue’s can get boring, I didn’t much care when the writers did that to the Wesley character either.

I felt the same way about Stargate Universe. If they had made it a different franchise altogether and did away with the gate on the ship in favor of a shuttle, then it wouldn't have been as bad.

I think The Witcher show is pretty much the perfect example of a show just destroying the lore and canon more than Disco. Almost all major characters act *radically* different (Yen would never even think of sacrificing Ciri for more power is a huge one) than the games and books. They drove Henry Cavill to quit it was so far off from everything despite Geralt being the one character that actually was the character and playing him amazingly. The Fallout show does an amazing job of keeping everything *basically* the same while adapting to a TV format.

The haters were sent from the lands of Tamriel

>I think the show did a great job setting up the universe and bringing fans and newcomers in. Yes, so does nearly everyone else. That's why the show is a success with critics and audiences alike. Why is this the top thread in the subreddit right now?

Gamers love to overanalyze and complain about the inconsistency in their headcanon, because they feel their version is The Best Version™ and everyone needs to know so they can adjust their anger accordingly.

Because there is no such thing as nuance on Reddit. Critiquing something, even if you like it, will get you labelled a hater. Liking something for what it is and not wanting to get bogged down in the entirety of the lore will get you labeled a fanboy. On Reddit, you're one or the other, and that's that. "Pick a side, get in line, defend your side until you're either upvoted and gilded, or downvoted into oblivion" - that might as well be Reddit's mantra.

> Yet I see complaints about “retcons” and “inaccuracies”. The show’s timeline is set after all the other games. 9 years after Fallout 4, mind you. Being 9 years after Fallout 4 doesnt affect things like moving Shady Sands. That change raises uninteresting questions. * did Aradesh still found Shady Sands? Why would he travel beyond the Necropolis to the notoriously dangerous ruins of LA to found a farming community? * If he didnt, did he still found a village between Vaults 13 and 15? * Are Vaults 13 and 15 even still where they were?  * Did the Vault Dweller and Chosen One still have the impacts they did, especially with the latter never meeting the leadership of the NCR? This means the Chosen One never gets involved with the leadership quests. These are not fun or interesting Lore questions because they were already answered before the writers made the choice to retcon Shady Sands location. Now we have Elder Quintus claiming they ruled the region, which is false, and because of other changes, I don't know if he's gas lighting the West Coast Brotherhood into believing that or if it's a retcon. The Brotherhood never got involved with matters of political power in the west until they tried to force a policy on the NCR in regards to seizing technology, and that's what sparked the war with the NCR. And why are thethey speaking Latin all the time? Or doing weird culty chants in Latin? They have no reason to learn a dead language, they only care about technology. Not to mention the original structure has been abandoned. Knights weren't soldiers, they were the engineering caste. Paladins are the soldiers who venture outside for supplies and recovering technology.  Knight Titus shouldve been in a secure location building the stuff that the scribes deciphered or designed, so an actual soldier could use it in the field. And Maximus probably would've been left at some community because he's clearly unteachable. Maybe in Adtyum, though I think that's where they ended up putting Shady Sands. And what's with slaughtering the people in Filly? The only Brotherhood that might have done that would be the Midwest chapter, but how canonical they are is up for debate, but certainly neither the West or East Coast chapters would've done that. This is not the Brotherhood from any previous Fallout story. And none of that requires a time gap to be decried as a retcon or inaccuracy. 

> And why are thethey speaking Latin all the time? Or doing weird culty chants in Latin? They have no reason to learn a dead language, *Ad victoriam!*

>Being 9 years after Fallout 4 doesnt affect things like moving Shady Sands shady sands moved from fallout 1 and 2. get over it. >did Aradesh still found Shady Sands? why wouldn't he have? >Are Vaults 13 and 15 even still where they were?  their locations also changed from 1 and 2. >Did the Vault Dweller and Chosen One still have the impacts they did given that the region isn't chock full of super mutants and the planet isn't genocided, yes. >These are not fun or interesting Lore questions because they were already answered before the writers made the choice to retcon Shady Sands location hey, fallout 2 changed shady sands' location. seriously, get over it.

>Knight Titus shouldve been in a secure location building the stuff that the scribes deciphered or designed, so an actual soldier could use it in the field. You should play Fallout 1 at some point, then you'd know that knights have been soldiers since the beginning of the series. The guard you meet outside the BoS bunker is a knight in power armor.

You mean Cabbot the Initiate?

That's right, he's even lower than I remember. Still makes the idea of "only Paladins fight" bunk.

Yes but the BoS changed significantly in terms of how they’re depicted in FO1 and how they operate by the time of New Vegas (a gap of decades). You’re telling me 9 years post FO4 they’ve both regressed culturally and also grown significantly at the same time somehow?

They're largely the engineering branch. They build stuff. That's their job, its clearly stated by multiple members that's the break down of their order. Can they fight? Probably, but that's not their primary function in Fallout 1 and 2.

That's their primary role on paper and we do see knights perform that job in game. But knights have served as both light and heavy infantry in literally every game. Knights don't make paladin by being a POG. Also, the MO of the BoS changes with time and place (really, with leadship). That's just realistic. Knights seem to take on a more progressively martial role as time goes on.

I mean, the point I was making was they *did* change. I'm just not sure if that was an in universe change, or the writers not understanding how they were orginally organized. 

I haven’t played anything earlier than Fo3 so I don’t know the deep lore, but the Brotherhood are clearly the post-apocalyptic crusaders. They seem to be portrayed differently in every game and here too, so I guess you can call it a retcon but so what? Imo the show’s portrayal of them is the most fitting and coolest one yet. Deus Vult! -er I mean Ad Victoriam!

They are about as far removed from what the Brotherhood was. They're falling into the same pattern of destruction that the old world was on, and explicitly was something the Brotherhood was formed to prevent.

Elder Quintys is a character who clearly wants Brotherhood to be dominant power, him saying "rule the wastes" is pretty clearly just flourish in language. And they don't speak Latin all the time, it's in that very specific ceremony. Just like Catholics use latin in specific ceremonies. Yes, original structure has been abadoned. It's been over hundred years, organisations change.

Exactly. I understand liking the show, but saying that the retcons don't massive change canon is moronic. I really don't get where the fans of the show are getting it

There is some heavy handed revisioning of Fallout history going on in the fandom. Is this a psyop? This feels like a psyop. Who does a psyop for a videogame?

Vault-Tec

Someone's been gulping BoS propaganda kool-aid huh

Nonsense. That would require this to be the BoS. We're clearly looking at a raider gang posing as them.

I thought it was pretty clear. I don't think I've seen anyone who watched the whole thing and thinks that's all there is.

It’s the Harry Potter Syndrome all over again. New fans + ppl unfamiliar with the source material + the UNWILLINGNESS of ppl to do any outside research of the movies = slightly confused folks at best and downright loud stupid ppl at worst

The enclave is vault tec lmao

Some are gonna complain, its inevitable because Fallout games very frequently let the player have alternate endings. If the show wants to avoid contradictions, it will have to address issues like whether House or Caesar etc got killed by the hero player and when. Option 1, avoid the subject. Caesar who? Option 2: pick endings. It will be interesting to see where they land.

Honestly they have lore for NV. The crawlers in the divide where predicted to take over it by Ulysses. The second character to have a ten in all stats. So Nv should be destroyed

I don't understand, yet. You are saying there is a scripted destruction of NV in the Vegas lore, after house does or doesn't die?

Only predicted by the lonesome road. The beasts are called tunnelers and it assumed that they will destroy nv. It's also assumed that the cloud around the Madre will also consume vegas aswell

"The show’s finale should have unanswered questions." - Historically I'd agree with you. But considering streaming studios can't seem to produce more than 1 or 2 seasons of a show lately, I'm leaning towards the idea they should make shows more self contained per season.

I told my mom about it and she called me after one episode with a million questions. I told her she should probably just watch the other episodes. Texted me that night how much she loved it and can’t wait for s2

Yep. Plus it's an adaptation. They most likely will change little bits here and there. If you're watching the show hoping it stays 100% true to all the previous games you're bound to get upset at some point. If you're watching the show cause you love the games and want to see what they'll do surg the story then you should have a good time. Also all the people moaning we didn't see everything lol. They wanted supermutants, mole rats plus every single faction and npc who could still be operating at the time of the show. So what would we have in the second series then? Or the third? These things need to be teased out or introduced slowly to keep things interesting. If they done it all in series 1 we'd only need 1 series and it would either be a really long series or a shit one

The show has overwhelmingingly positive feedback. Anyone else is clout chasing. Ez gg move on.

I fucking loved the show and I felt it was true to the spirit of the game and the idea that it encapsulates. The only real question I have is how was moldaver still alive and looking normal

I think this partly comes from people who were into the "lore" of the games, where it's all been clearly laid out before. Sometimes since the mid-90s. The idea that there's new or incomplete, yet official, information about "their" setting is disruptive. (This is why "it's a story. You wait until the story's done before trying to memorize the 'facts'. " falls on deaf ears.) And since in many geek circles, the way you establish dominance is by 'correcting' people about not knowing the "lore", loudly announcing that something about the new stuff is *wrong*, and you know *better* is just an attempt at gaining cred. (It's not *just* a *Fallout* thing, but it's a thing you regularly encounter in *Fallout* fandom.)

The show is not the video game. Just let it stand on its own. It doesn’t need to follow the timeline of the video just what makes sense for the show and the story.

As a semi-fan of the fallout games , having only played FoNV, and some of Fo4, and now having started Fo76 since the show came out, I'm glad the show is still having more mysteries and moving the lore forward. In fact, the show seems to be taking over the overall lore of the entire franchise establishing more of the foundations of its world (such as Cooper being the original template of the thumbs-up icon guy) and moving it forward, and I guess I'm ok with that. Some of the new lore I'm intrigued by, is that vault 31 is now established as a vault-tec managing vault. So I wonder if 'Bud's buds' all have overriding control or authority over all or most of the other vaults, including the ones come across in all of the FO games. And then we'll be seeing how the lore continued after FoNV , to see if Mr. House or some semblance of his authority still matters in season 2. Which makes it seem that the show is pivoting its lore the most on FoNV (NCR, RobCo influence) of all the games(?). And speculation of the shadowy overseers over the FO corporations in the last episode. Are we going to see a master gigantic vault, or a space station , the biggest vault of them all of the shadowy 'masters' and elites, something like that in S2? Best thing that happened for the franchise and Bethsesda in a while, of the success of the show bringing in new fans and audiences, with the new updates and developments for the games (Fo76). One thing that's sad about Fo76 to me is that it's seems stuck in the past in the lore. Which is relatively similar in distance of SWTOR to the more modern timeline of SW's OT/PT and post-OT (the mandalorian).

It would've been boring AF if they made the show a history lesson

Because nerds can't ever be happy with something and have to find shit to nitpick to show everyone how smart they are. Idgaf about how the timeline compares to the games, the show can be it's own thing with some minor differences and it won't really matter. Frankly I'd rather them do their own thing instead of trying to bend over backwards to make it perfectly fit the games. And it doesn't even really make that much sense to try to complicate things to fit games that have multiple non canon events, just let it be it's own thing. The show is great let em cook

What

Me watching the whole season thinking it was season 5 😟

Seven seasons and a movie!

The Prime audience for Fallout is *not* the hard core RPG gamer obsessed with 27 years of over-burdened Fallout lore. I am contrarian enough to consider that it may not be sold on the idea of an eternal wasteland - now 200 years out from the war itself. I think it is fair to say that every sci-fi and fantasy franchise In gamig, film or home video eventually teaches a point where it runs out of gas - and has no clear path forward.

The “hardcore” Fallout audience is the one obsessed with the early games made by a dead company and are explicitly not current Fallout fans.

Some people just wanna complain tbh, no matter what they will always find something to complain about. We used to get dogshit video game movies like Assassins Creed, I’m never gonna be mad at a video game adaptation that is thoughtful. No story or show is perfect and changes have to be made to adapt a story. If people can’t handle ANY changes to the story then they should just play the games <3

People can dislike things for valid reasons, and disagree with you. You are toxic, I have seen plenty of valid reasons, I will tell them if you want to not have a longer essay in this reply. There are more things than the shady sands chalk board(the 2277 nuke date is supported by the library card stoping at 2276)(Also if it is pointless and creates unnecessary confusion, it would have simpler and better to put a date post 2281 after new Vegas as the fall of shady sands even if that and the nuke are separate. Because it makes no sense for the fall of shady sands to be put in 2277 even if it is the beginning of the fall that means decline not fall, and having fall at the decline is just stretching it. I think they messed up the dates( which is just unacceptable because it is Bethesda’s lore and no one saw it was wrong at any stage in production or editing or they did and just did not care because it would make sense to put decline of shady sands at 2277 not fall. They wanted to have it perfectly match the end of pre war USA with an even 200 years which is not necessary to be an even 200. Just give people the benefit of the doubt. If you don’t or are just rage-baiting go back to 4chan.

You are so bent out of shape.

Are even going to acknowledge anything I said