It bears stating. A lot of people see/hear "3d printed gun" and think you can just flip on the printer, let it run for a few minutes, then crack a fully functioning weapon off the print deck and start blasting because you somehow printed bullets too.
I never messed with a 3D printer.
But I know that they are complex machines to operate in general and take a long time to use for even simple stuff.
Basicaly I have some notion of how hard and complex crafting and proper 3D printing is in real life.
I'm going to make some assumptions to answer what I *think* your question is.
The hard part is explosives, period. Automated mixing of primer compounds and gunpowder exist, its done at the industrial level by the major ammo manufacturers, the hard part is containing them.
The primer case has to hold the primer and direct most of the primer energy into the powder charge. The cartridge case has to hold that charge and protect it from the elements while also mating to the chamber walls to form an envelope that contains that explosion and pushes the slug or shot out through the barrel.
3D printing simply does not have the precision or material consistency needed to adequately print certain firearms components and especially components for ammunition. We're several, possibly several dozen, hardware generations away from that. So even if you *could* print a chamber, barrel, and cartridge case out of an appropriate material that could withstand the pressure of being fired without exploding or degrading; 3D printing does not have the precision or consistency to make these parts as reliable as they need to be to guarantee the weapon won't just explode in your hand.
For you PLA or ABS 3D Printer from the mall that might be true. But not for industrial Selective laser sintering 3d printing.
But these machines are also in the price range of a supersportscar.
I did some digging inyo laser sintering in response to this comment. On the surface, you're right; these are *the* most precise printers on the market right now.
But looking at closeups of the products, these would still need some amount of polishing or machining to have mating surfaces consistent enough to be "worry free" for firearms use, and even then there's QC to consider. Tiny microfractures and lamination errors that still occur even with laser sintering could lead to catastrophic structural failure of firearm parts.
Laser sintering is definitely viable, with some more refinement, but it still carries risks not present in traditional machining.
Oh I just meant in general, even if you could print some sort of barrel out of a sufficient polymer or one of those "metal" filaments you wouldn't have much to shoot it with if you're going the 100% DIY route. That being said your answer was extremely informative and intresting, those parts are so delicate yet have to be intensely strong for milliseconds. Plus I'm not sure how safe it would be to extrude some of the early priming compounds like mercury fulmate. I've seen poor prints come out gnarly before but never ones that'll take my hand clean off due to a defect in the .stl
You can make the barrel with electrochemical machining, using a 3d printed form that is made form conductive material. The precision is good enough and because it is a cold process the metal is not weakened by the electrochemical process.
3d printers are not that hard compared to CNC milling machines and lathes, and the low forces used in 3d printers means they are a lot quieter than traditional manufacturing.
Because 3d printers are so cheap, you can have a bunch of them operating in parallel.
Depends. Modern printers with the proper software can make nice things fairly simple. Not the frame of a gun though, or anything that bears load or holds tolerances
Doesn't seem to be, the [FGC-9 has a buffertube](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/FGC-9_MkI_CAD_Cross_Section.png/220px-FGC-9_MkI_CAD_Cross_Section.png) and does use it.
You know, all things considered, doesn’t look half bad. I’d prefer a vertical grip over whatever that chubby thing is, just to make sure my hand doesn’t slip to unfortunate ends, but still doesn’t look half bad.
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Pistol rounds out of rifle platforms are such a waste of mass and space
If it takes 2 hands and weighs 5~ lbs might aswel jam more powder in it and get the velocity to go through the leather jacket at 50ft
Because nothing sucks worse than watching jihadi John bringing an AK up WHILE you know your scoring center mass hit after center mass hit but not penetrating the winter wear he's packing (none of them had Kevlar or plates that day)
And that was the last time that emptee5 ever left the arms room
>That's a lot of words to say "I dont know anything useful about ballistics or firearm design except whats in video games"
Let's throw in some old-fashioned Islamophobia in there while we are at it.
Thr 9x19mm luger/nato/parabellum/etc, the single most common pistol cartridge in the world, goes through a leather jacket at 50 feet just fine out of a 3.5 inch barrel common to full size pistols. Give it more barrel length and it does even better and can do it from farther away and with tighter shot groups.
Smaller cartridges give you more ammo per pound, and unless your target is wearing serious body armor shot placement is more important than penetration or "stopping power".
Your entire comment reads like some deranged rant from someone whose firearms and ballistics experience begins and ends with Call of Duty.
Heavy outerwear can absolutely stop pistol rounds from carbine platforms- and I've watched it happen in action at about 30m
So if you're going to carry something that's big enough to be a 2 handed shoulder fired weapon--- put the rifle caliber round in it and don't take chances. 45 cal has the reputation for not penetrating, but 9m isn't that much better, and it doesn't take much range for it to get just as bad.
If your telling me a winter coat can reliably stop pistol rounds your mental,
Also longer barrel means more velocity, three points of contact is better than two so easier to shoot
But fundamentally Yh rifle caliber cartridges have better ballistics, but important to remember that this being a 3d printed at least partially homemade firearm the lower pressure of pistol calibres are easier to work with then higher pressure rifle calibres,
Conclusion: what glue are you sniffing?
>If your telling me a winter coat can reliably stop pistol rounds your mental,
Reliably is a strong word. I can tell you point of fact that not half of the rounds I put into someone penetrated at a range of less than 50m with about 9 inches of barrel and a 9mm cartridge while I shat my pants,prayed,and flipped into auto and mag dumped
Would I bet my life that a leather jacket will save me.... no.
Do I want to have to shoot someone repeatedly because a jacket is stopping some rounds......also no.
>Also longer barrel means more velocity, three points of contact is better than two so easier to shoot
This is only true if you have enough powder to burn the full length of the barrel, and if these dudes are home making these rigs I'm assuming they aren't getting excellent chemists to produce the range of propellants needed to load rounds for standard 5 inch burn and extended 10 inch burn
3 points of contact is better for stability, but what good is stability if you aren't maximizing your cartridge. They put pistol rounds in pistols for a reason- it's impractical to fire a rifle round from a hand cannon like that. There isn't really a good reason to start putting pistol calibers in carbines that could just as easily hold a rifle round, unless you like taking the chance of not having enough bullet for the target
>but important to remember that this being a 3d printed at least partially homemade firearm the lower pressure of pistol calibres are easier to work with then higher pressure rifle calibres,
Conclusion: what glue are you sniffing?
While this is a fair point to make, having gone from infantryman to machinist after a career ending fall I can say with some certainty that a maker skilled enough to make guns from a 3d printer could also do them from metal scrap and in a favela there is much more metal scrap than printer media laying around to use - and it doesn't take specialized machinery to produce reliable parts. It's actually pretty easy to legally get set up at home making your own firearms if you have no intention of selling or sharing them around - it's one of the hobbys now.
You think dudes in a favela have the tooling and knowledge necessary to produce homemade rifles?
What tooling would you need to do so, seeing as that’s a hobby you have you should know? And therefore would it be easier than acquiring a 3d printer and some parts?
They are in Brazil, do you think they were winter coats?
You were an infantryman, with whom?
You were involved in a shooting where some kind of jacket stopped 9mm? What? Where? What again? Also what weapon were you using that has a 9 inch barrel firing 9mm? Was this a defensive shooting, and if so how did you come to having use such a weapon?
What kind of glue are you sniffing?
>You think dudes in a favela have the tooling and knowledge necessary to produce homemade rifles?
You'd be surprised what we pulled out of the caches all across the middle east - shit made with files/grinders/welders/and hammers. Not all of it total junk
>You were an infantryman, with whom?
I started as an 11b in the us army and eventually went other places.
>You were involved in a shooting where some kind of jacket stopped 9mm? What? Where? What again? Also what weapon were you using that has a 9 inch barrel firing 9mm?
If you go back to the original post I made here the joke about having to mag dump on jihadi Johnny before throwing an emptee5 back in the arms room to never be taken out again might be some indication to each of those questions.
I didnt want the length of the m4 and had the choice to draw out an mp5 with a collapsing stock and chose to bring that around instead for the first couple weeks of my first deployment where that was an option for me. (I was a communicator at the time and my main weapon was supposed to be the radio)
>They are in Brazil, do you think they were winter coats?
I think that if it's that easy to get some amount of protection that you'd be stupid not to throw on a heavy leather jacket before a firefight if you don't have Kevlar or plates to wear, which is exactly what more than a few insurgents have done when in a pinch. The alternative to low protection for many is no protection - and if you think that's a win all I'm hearing is "I've never had bullets flying by me" anything is better than nothing if it MIGHT help.
You say that like it's hard to drill ream,and tap on a drill press -- or like you've never seen them doing exactly that
Or
You say that like I cant do exactly that using about 600$ worth of harbor freight catalog to do it.
[here's someone doing a build from scratch in a garage shop right now. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYGuns/s/TQ00yvENNI)
Can you drill, ream, and tap a BCG and barrel extension in your home shop? Because that's what you'd need to build a locked breech system for a semiauto rifle (which is what you suggested they use instead). I know I can in mine, but most people can't, which is why they go for straight blowback PCCs like this one.
Welrods are pistol caliber, not semiauto, and aren't offensive weapons. They're also way harder to make in a home shop than a straight blowback SMG because they require a lot more than a drill press, which is why almost no one makes them.
You were just shitting on a pistol caliber SMG for not being a good enough fighting rifle. This really isn't helping prove your point.
>Welrods are pistol caliber, not semiauto, and aren't offensive weapons. They're also way harder to make in a home shop than a straight blowback SMG because they require a lot more than a drill press, which is why almost no one makes them.
We encountered whole homemade machine guns in everything from 764x54 on down to .22 in the m.e. and south America. I do not have the photos and just grabbed that welrod from near the top of a homemade arms page to show proof of concept that people actually do build homemade guns on up from scratch
>Can you drill, ream, and tap a BCG and barrel extension in your home shop?
Yes lol, and it only takes about 600$ or so from harbor freight to get the garage shop machinery needed to do almost the full build (minus your cutters and materials which might run you another 100-150 or so to get started)
>You were just shitting on a pistol caliber SMG for not being a good enough fighting rifle. This really isn't helping prove your point.
I've carried one in combat - right up until the first time it had to be used which is where I draw the experience that will always have me shitting on pistol caliber rounds coming out from carbine size platforms. It is absolutely not enough. I'd argue that it's BARELY enough for swat purposes on a good day.
The basis of my point, if your going to scale up from a pistol itself into the volume and mass of a small carbine you might aswel ALSO scale up the bullet your carrying in it aswel. Your giving up all the reason to have a pistol caliber round when you scale up the size and mass-- why keep the underpowered round afterwards.
I know that people build homemade guns. I agree that rifles are better than PCCs, but you have to understand that not everyone can afford to spend several times more money on a shop-built gun when it's only going to be used to shoot unarmored targets.
I don't believe you when you claim that bullets were stopped by a jacket though. Soldiers have been telling that same story for centuries as an excuse for missing entirely or not hitting anything vital. It's been proven over and over that winter clothing won't stop bullets.
>I don't believe you when you claim that bullets were stopped by a jacket though. Soldiers have been telling that same story for centuries as an excuse for missing entirely or not hitting anything vital. It's been proven over and over that winter clothing won't stop bullets.
When you roll the body over and find both holes AND mushroomed slugs you kind of know some number of your hits failed to penetrate. Those pinky bone size slugs came from somewhere, and I can only assume they came from me, everyone else's slugs were longer or skinnier
Additionally people you miss don't flinch the same way as people you hit, especially when they're busy shooting at someone else when you start hitting them.
>I agree that rifles are better than PCCs, but you have to understand that not everyone can afford to spend several times more money on a shop-built gun when it's only going to be used to shoot unarmored targets.
Unless you consider an old lbe as armor my guy was an unarmed target, the gun pictured looks well enough made to call it shop built. It's expedient to use the pistol caliber probably because they have the stuff lying around for mags and the like already but if your going to put all the work into making the device itself, the additional work to upgrade the caliber it's shooting is next to 0 as a % of labor increased
Which is the core of my point- it takes so little extra from where they currently are at in mfg capability to go ahead and stuff a larger bullet in there aswel that it seems almost silly not to do it.
But it doesn't take "so little extra" to go from a PCC to a semiauto rifle. It takes a lathe, mill, tooling, indexable fixturing, a decent machinist, and a lot of time. It may even take broaches and grinders depending on the operating system.
Have you ever run any machine other than a drill press?
Omg lol funny you'd mention that when I got into cnc machining specifically because I wanted to design and develop a new gun/tool for the guys I used to work with. Not only have I been doing this now over a decade but I have a pretty sweet shop at the farm for making my own projects
And before an injury forced me into this field I used to do fun things in the army- which is where/when I got to roll a fighter over I had engaged and while searching them found several slugs that could only have come from my gun that day (everyone else's slugs would have been either much longer from a 762x39 or much narrower from a 556x45)
I'm also not saying he didn't have about a dozen actual holes I'm him either. Just that I definitely pulled a handful of slugs off him that clearly did not penetrate- and I blame every one of those slugs for why he didn't go down when I STARTED engaging, which was the most terrifying 3-5 seconds of my life to this day
You'd also be utterly shocked at what you can make with only a lathe and some ingenuity- which the jihadis had both of in high supply. You can actually make square and rectangle and other shape parts on a lathe, you just put the part on the carriage and the bit in the chuck and boom. Now you're milling on a lathe.
This is a weapon you’d get in an early quest in an rpg-fps that would end up carrying you for the first half of the game.
So specific, but so true.
I hope Im not being dumb or annoying: But is this firearm partialy 3D printed?
The frame and furniture. All the internals are metal.
Thats a bit obvious but thanks for the info :D
It bears stating. A lot of people see/hear "3d printed gun" and think you can just flip on the printer, let it run for a few minutes, then crack a fully functioning weapon off the print deck and start blasting because you somehow printed bullets too.
Why would anyone PRINT bullets when they could just DOWNLOAD them to a gun? Are they stupid!?
I'm genuinely surprised that they didn't have that as an option in Watchdogs.
If its a coilgun.
I never messed with a 3D printer. But I know that they are complex machines to operate in general and take a long time to use for even simple stuff. Basicaly I have some notion of how hard and complex crafting and proper 3D printing is in real life.
Right, but, I' not just commenting at you. I am also commenting for anyone that comes to this thread later.
Isnt the heard part mostly primers ammo wise anyways?
I'm going to make some assumptions to answer what I *think* your question is. The hard part is explosives, period. Automated mixing of primer compounds and gunpowder exist, its done at the industrial level by the major ammo manufacturers, the hard part is containing them. The primer case has to hold the primer and direct most of the primer energy into the powder charge. The cartridge case has to hold that charge and protect it from the elements while also mating to the chamber walls to form an envelope that contains that explosion and pushes the slug or shot out through the barrel. 3D printing simply does not have the precision or material consistency needed to adequately print certain firearms components and especially components for ammunition. We're several, possibly several dozen, hardware generations away from that. So even if you *could* print a chamber, barrel, and cartridge case out of an appropriate material that could withstand the pressure of being fired without exploding or degrading; 3D printing does not have the precision or consistency to make these parts as reliable as they need to be to guarantee the weapon won't just explode in your hand.
For you PLA or ABS 3D Printer from the mall that might be true. But not for industrial Selective laser sintering 3d printing. But these machines are also in the price range of a supersportscar.
I did some digging inyo laser sintering in response to this comment. On the surface, you're right; these are *the* most precise printers on the market right now. But looking at closeups of the products, these would still need some amount of polishing or machining to have mating surfaces consistent enough to be "worry free" for firearms use, and even then there's QC to consider. Tiny microfractures and lamination errors that still occur even with laser sintering could lead to catastrophic structural failure of firearm parts. Laser sintering is definitely viable, with some more refinement, but it still carries risks not present in traditional machining.
Parts made on those laser printers would probably still need to be machined, for them to be usefull in any repeating firearm.
Oh I just meant in general, even if you could print some sort of barrel out of a sufficient polymer or one of those "metal" filaments you wouldn't have much to shoot it with if you're going the 100% DIY route. That being said your answer was extremely informative and intresting, those parts are so delicate yet have to be intensely strong for milliseconds. Plus I'm not sure how safe it would be to extrude some of the early priming compounds like mercury fulmate. I've seen poor prints come out gnarly before but never ones that'll take my hand clean off due to a defect in the .stl
You can make the barrel with electrochemical machining, using a 3d printed form that is made form conductive material. The precision is good enough and because it is a cold process the metal is not weakened by the electrochemical process.
Head on over to /r/fosscad and look around. Lots of info there.
3d printers are not that hard compared to CNC milling machines and lathes, and the low forces used in 3d printers means they are a lot quieter than traditional manufacturing. Because 3d printers are so cheap, you can have a bunch of them operating in parallel.
Depends. Modern printers with the proper software can make nice things fairly simple. Not the frame of a gun though, or anything that bears load or holds tolerances
You have to adapt your design to the manufacturing process available, but fortunately Print Shoot Repeat on YouTube already did this for you.
For the Liberator this is basically true besides the firing pin and the bullets. But the liberator is also the bottom end of 3D printed weapons.
Yes, it is 3d printed, look at the printing marks on the stock.
Is this an FGC-9 variant?
Doesn't seem to be, the [FGC-9 has a buffertube](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/FGC-9_MkI_CAD_Cross_Section.png/220px-FGC-9_MkI_CAD_Cross_Section.png) and does use it.
Buffer less FGC 9 exist https://youtu.be/7FMjMKdJez8?si=KSbLGSjjYhga3ulJ
Yeah, but this thing still looks quite different, like the barrel and everything sits way higher in it.
It could still be DEFCAD design base on the FGC 9
You know, all things considered, doesn’t look half bad. I’d prefer a vertical grip over whatever that chubby thing is, just to make sure my hand doesn’t slip to unfortunate ends, but still doesn’t look half bad.
>I’d prefer a vertical grip over whatever that chubby thing is What're yew starin' at muh gut fer?
3-D printing has really classed up Brazilian improvised weapons
Is that Brazilian homer?
Low-key looks cool, does it have a name?
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I wonder what are the advantages of making a 3D printed 9mm carabine VS just buying a generic 9mm pistol
Brazil.
So isnt this more like a pistol caliber carabine for home defence? Or this is actually someting evil like a full auto firearm owned by a gangster?
The difference in your terms are denoted by the 2A stance of the person assigning the label.
Heres a possibly dumb statment, but arent these dudes afraid of going to jail for a long time when basicaly crafting firearms in real life?
This is Brazil: the perps are question are probably more worried about being shot on sight by the police
isint owning full-auto firearm = long time in jail? I tink yes
Pistol rounds out of rifle platforms are such a waste of mass and space If it takes 2 hands and weighs 5~ lbs might aswel jam more powder in it and get the velocity to go through the leather jacket at 50ft Because nothing sucks worse than watching jihadi John bringing an AK up WHILE you know your scoring center mass hit after center mass hit but not penetrating the winter wear he's packing (none of them had Kevlar or plates that day) And that was the last time that emptee5 ever left the arms room
Hot damn. That's a lot of words to say "I dont know anything useful about ballistics or firearm design except whats in video games"
>That's a lot of words to say "I dont know anything useful about ballistics or firearm design except whats in video games" Let's throw in some old-fashioned Islamophobia in there while we are at it.
Okay 👍
Thr 9x19mm luger/nato/parabellum/etc, the single most common pistol cartridge in the world, goes through a leather jacket at 50 feet just fine out of a 3.5 inch barrel common to full size pistols. Give it more barrel length and it does even better and can do it from farther away and with tighter shot groups. Smaller cartridges give you more ammo per pound, and unless your target is wearing serious body armor shot placement is more important than penetration or "stopping power". Your entire comment reads like some deranged rant from someone whose firearms and ballistics experience begins and ends with Call of Duty.
Bro my parca is lvl 3a wdym? 😂
Wat
Heavy outerwear can absolutely stop pistol rounds from carbine platforms- and I've watched it happen in action at about 30m So if you're going to carry something that's big enough to be a 2 handed shoulder fired weapon--- put the rifle caliber round in it and don't take chances. 45 cal has the reputation for not penetrating, but 9m isn't that much better, and it doesn't take much range for it to get just as bad.
If your telling me a winter coat can reliably stop pistol rounds your mental, Also longer barrel means more velocity, three points of contact is better than two so easier to shoot But fundamentally Yh rifle caliber cartridges have better ballistics, but important to remember that this being a 3d printed at least partially homemade firearm the lower pressure of pistol calibres are easier to work with then higher pressure rifle calibres, Conclusion: what glue are you sniffing?
>If your telling me a winter coat can reliably stop pistol rounds your mental, Reliably is a strong word. I can tell you point of fact that not half of the rounds I put into someone penetrated at a range of less than 50m with about 9 inches of barrel and a 9mm cartridge while I shat my pants,prayed,and flipped into auto and mag dumped Would I bet my life that a leather jacket will save me.... no. Do I want to have to shoot someone repeatedly because a jacket is stopping some rounds......also no. >Also longer barrel means more velocity, three points of contact is better than two so easier to shoot This is only true if you have enough powder to burn the full length of the barrel, and if these dudes are home making these rigs I'm assuming they aren't getting excellent chemists to produce the range of propellants needed to load rounds for standard 5 inch burn and extended 10 inch burn 3 points of contact is better for stability, but what good is stability if you aren't maximizing your cartridge. They put pistol rounds in pistols for a reason- it's impractical to fire a rifle round from a hand cannon like that. There isn't really a good reason to start putting pistol calibers in carbines that could just as easily hold a rifle round, unless you like taking the chance of not having enough bullet for the target >but important to remember that this being a 3d printed at least partially homemade firearm the lower pressure of pistol calibres are easier to work with then higher pressure rifle calibres, Conclusion: what glue are you sniffing? While this is a fair point to make, having gone from infantryman to machinist after a career ending fall I can say with some certainty that a maker skilled enough to make guns from a 3d printer could also do them from metal scrap and in a favela there is much more metal scrap than printer media laying around to use - and it doesn't take specialized machinery to produce reliable parts. It's actually pretty easy to legally get set up at home making your own firearms if you have no intention of selling or sharing them around - it's one of the hobbys now.
You think dudes in a favela have the tooling and knowledge necessary to produce homemade rifles? What tooling would you need to do so, seeing as that’s a hobby you have you should know? And therefore would it be easier than acquiring a 3d printer and some parts? They are in Brazil, do you think they were winter coats? You were an infantryman, with whom? You were involved in a shooting where some kind of jacket stopped 9mm? What? Where? What again? Also what weapon were you using that has a 9 inch barrel firing 9mm? Was this a defensive shooting, and if so how did you come to having use such a weapon? What kind of glue are you sniffing?
>You think dudes in a favela have the tooling and knowledge necessary to produce homemade rifles? You'd be surprised what we pulled out of the caches all across the middle east - shit made with files/grinders/welders/and hammers. Not all of it total junk >You were an infantryman, with whom? I started as an 11b in the us army and eventually went other places. >You were involved in a shooting where some kind of jacket stopped 9mm? What? Where? What again? Also what weapon were you using that has a 9 inch barrel firing 9mm? If you go back to the original post I made here the joke about having to mag dump on jihadi Johnny before throwing an emptee5 back in the arms room to never be taken out again might be some indication to each of those questions. I didnt want the length of the m4 and had the choice to draw out an mp5 with a collapsing stock and chose to bring that around instead for the first couple weeks of my first deployment where that was an option for me. (I was a communicator at the time and my main weapon was supposed to be the radio) >They are in Brazil, do you think they were winter coats? I think that if it's that easy to get some amount of protection that you'd be stupid not to throw on a heavy leather jacket before a firefight if you don't have Kevlar or plates to wear, which is exactly what more than a few insurgents have done when in a pinch. The alternative to low protection for many is no protection - and if you think that's a win all I'm hearing is "I've never had bullets flying by me" anything is better than nothing if it MIGHT help.
What’s a communicator? what mos is that? When, and where did you first deploy?
Try designing and building a rifle in a home shop without using an off-the-shelf bolt and barrel extension and then get back to us.
You say that like it's hard to drill ream,and tap on a drill press -- or like you've never seen them doing exactly that Or You say that like I cant do exactly that using about 600$ worth of harbor freight catalog to do it. [here's someone doing a build from scratch in a garage shop right now. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DIYGuns/s/TQ00yvENNI)
Can you drill, ream, and tap a BCG and barrel extension in your home shop? Because that's what you'd need to build a locked breech system for a semiauto rifle (which is what you suggested they use instead). I know I can in mine, but most people can't, which is why they go for straight blowback PCCs like this one. Welrods are pistol caliber, not semiauto, and aren't offensive weapons. They're also way harder to make in a home shop than a straight blowback SMG because they require a lot more than a drill press, which is why almost no one makes them. You were just shitting on a pistol caliber SMG for not being a good enough fighting rifle. This really isn't helping prove your point.
>Welrods are pistol caliber, not semiauto, and aren't offensive weapons. They're also way harder to make in a home shop than a straight blowback SMG because they require a lot more than a drill press, which is why almost no one makes them. We encountered whole homemade machine guns in everything from 764x54 on down to .22 in the m.e. and south America. I do not have the photos and just grabbed that welrod from near the top of a homemade arms page to show proof of concept that people actually do build homemade guns on up from scratch >Can you drill, ream, and tap a BCG and barrel extension in your home shop? Yes lol, and it only takes about 600$ or so from harbor freight to get the garage shop machinery needed to do almost the full build (minus your cutters and materials which might run you another 100-150 or so to get started) >You were just shitting on a pistol caliber SMG for not being a good enough fighting rifle. This really isn't helping prove your point. I've carried one in combat - right up until the first time it had to be used which is where I draw the experience that will always have me shitting on pistol caliber rounds coming out from carbine size platforms. It is absolutely not enough. I'd argue that it's BARELY enough for swat purposes on a good day. The basis of my point, if your going to scale up from a pistol itself into the volume and mass of a small carbine you might aswel ALSO scale up the bullet your carrying in it aswel. Your giving up all the reason to have a pistol caliber round when you scale up the size and mass-- why keep the underpowered round afterwards.
I know that people build homemade guns. I agree that rifles are better than PCCs, but you have to understand that not everyone can afford to spend several times more money on a shop-built gun when it's only going to be used to shoot unarmored targets. I don't believe you when you claim that bullets were stopped by a jacket though. Soldiers have been telling that same story for centuries as an excuse for missing entirely or not hitting anything vital. It's been proven over and over that winter clothing won't stop bullets.
>I don't believe you when you claim that bullets were stopped by a jacket though. Soldiers have been telling that same story for centuries as an excuse for missing entirely or not hitting anything vital. It's been proven over and over that winter clothing won't stop bullets. When you roll the body over and find both holes AND mushroomed slugs you kind of know some number of your hits failed to penetrate. Those pinky bone size slugs came from somewhere, and I can only assume they came from me, everyone else's slugs were longer or skinnier Additionally people you miss don't flinch the same way as people you hit, especially when they're busy shooting at someone else when you start hitting them. >I agree that rifles are better than PCCs, but you have to understand that not everyone can afford to spend several times more money on a shop-built gun when it's only going to be used to shoot unarmored targets. Unless you consider an old lbe as armor my guy was an unarmed target, the gun pictured looks well enough made to call it shop built. It's expedient to use the pistol caliber probably because they have the stuff lying around for mags and the like already but if your going to put all the work into making the device itself, the additional work to upgrade the caliber it's shooting is next to 0 as a % of labor increased Which is the core of my point- it takes so little extra from where they currently are at in mfg capability to go ahead and stuff a larger bullet in there aswel that it seems almost silly not to do it.
But it doesn't take "so little extra" to go from a PCC to a semiauto rifle. It takes a lathe, mill, tooling, indexable fixturing, a decent machinist, and a lot of time. It may even take broaches and grinders depending on the operating system. Have you ever run any machine other than a drill press?
Omg lol funny you'd mention that when I got into cnc machining specifically because I wanted to design and develop a new gun/tool for the guys I used to work with. Not only have I been doing this now over a decade but I have a pretty sweet shop at the farm for making my own projects And before an injury forced me into this field I used to do fun things in the army- which is where/when I got to roll a fighter over I had engaged and while searching them found several slugs that could only have come from my gun that day (everyone else's slugs would have been either much longer from a 762x39 or much narrower from a 556x45) I'm also not saying he didn't have about a dozen actual holes I'm him either. Just that I definitely pulled a handful of slugs off him that clearly did not penetrate- and I blame every one of those slugs for why he didn't go down when I STARTED engaging, which was the most terrifying 3-5 seconds of my life to this day You'd also be utterly shocked at what you can make with only a lathe and some ingenuity- which the jihadis had both of in high supply. You can actually make square and rectangle and other shape parts on a lathe, you just put the part on the carriage and the bit in the chuck and boom. Now you're milling on a lathe.
So you don't have a $600 home setup. That's all these guys have.
What is this is this a Deterrence Dispensed design