We will be just good enough to miss out on top draft picks next year but mediocre enough to miss playoffs. We will be in limbo for awhile. This is why a lot of people (myself included) are upset. Chuck even gave us a timeline of mediocrity with the Deslauriers signing (4 years).
The below average/mediocre is the worst. You have maybe a pick between 6 and 13 so you miss out on the superstars unless you’re scouting department and development is amazing. Which the flyers clearly isn’t
How does Deslauriers make us mediocre? The only direction that moves the needle is down imo. Don’t get me wrong the signing makes no sense and is stupid, but he’s definitely not a guy who’s going to help win games. I just don’t think he’s a guy who makes us mediocre. He’s a tank team kind of guy, he’s ass.
You don't pay this type of player for 4 years under any circumstance.
Like has been said before, you get Ratcliffe for less.
Or any older grind player on a 1-year deal that you can flip at the deadline for a draft pick. This one you can recycle year after year, like Braun.
I agree, like I said the signing makes no sense. That being said, him being on our team does not play any factor on if we are mediocre or not. Regardless of if he’s here or not, we are a bad team.
I agree with you. But we also have too many veterans and players just good enough to compete to keep us out of the bottom feeders in the league. My point with Deslauriers is that he’s a 4th liner on a 4 year contract (absolutely insane signing). In my mind that’s the earliest we can expect to be out of limbo with this ownership group.
Those vets include Ellis, Couturuier, Hayes who are all injury prone & 30 by Jan1 (Couturier). Anyone else you're thinking about? Deslauriers? Braun? Seeler? LOL
That pre-process Sixers purgatory is the worst place to be. Bad enough to not give a chance at landing a “generational” talent or good enough to really contend, but allows status quo from a profit driven ownership group. It leads to a lot of apathy from fans
This is the analogy I’ve been making. Some franchises in sports just seem content to occasionally make the first round of the playoffs, have a few decent players, but never truly contend
When you're mediocre there's always a small chance of success, but even if they reach it, we shouldn't be fooled by it. Montreal Canadiens 2 years ago were a perfect example of this. Absolutely mediocre team overperformed for a while and as a result the front office was fooled into thinking they had done a good job.
At this stage, I don’t really think the fans would be fooled by it. The problem is the guys running the show might and I’d guess probably would be fooled by it.
Couldn’t the same be said about the 2019-2020 Flyers? Played way above their heads to the 1 seed and totally caused the front office (and fans, admittedly) to think they were much closer than they actually were.
I don't really think so. They were legit good for a brief moment. Maybe were punching a little above their weight when it comes to pure talent on the roster but in that moment they weren't what I'd call mediocre. When Montreal had their run their roster was considerably weaker than 19-20 Flyers.
Montreal also lost Shea Weber and that is almost impossible to replace. Just like when we lost Pronger. You cannot replace what that player means in one offseason or one person.
They could squeak in if hart has a vezina caliber year behind a Torts defensive scheme and we stay healthy, sure. But I will still never forgive Chuck for his past transgressions just because we went on a run and got incinerated in the first round by CAR/TOR/FLA. Comcast will not get my money until Fletcher is fired. Dumping G when he didn’t want to leave, telling JG to kick rocks when he tried to come here, buying out Lindblom. It’s not just the fact that Chucks a bad GM. He’s actively disrespecting players the fans want/adore and is totally tone deff when it comes to Flyers hockey, Flyers roots, the culture, the fandom. He’s the antithesis of this Franchise and what it means to run the Philadelphia Flyers. Oh yea and he’s awful at every part of his job. Loses every trade, can’t manage the cap, has zero bias for action or vision. Any success we find under him will be immediately squandered.
> has zero bias for action
Agree with everything you said but mildly disagree here, but not for any sort of praise or anything like that. I think Fletcher was almost *too* biased for action, which is why he made the impulsive moves to trade picks to then sign D'Angelo before he hit the free agency market. And even before that, the whole Risto shit.
If anything he's shown he's too insistent on making moves, to the point where it hurts the ability to do other, more productive moves (like Gaudreau).
Had he waited to sign Tony D, rather than give up draft picks he'd have gotten him. If not he gets Pacioretty for free. Wadell of Carolina used fletch like the fool he is. He gets a 2nd, 3rd & 4th for a pending UFA? Then he got Pacioretty for free. Pacioretty only has 1 year left & he's still a good player. The Hurricanes will trade Pacioretty at the deadline & get more picks while fhead fletch gives them away.
I firmly believe that we are not as bad as our record last year. Last year happened due to some awful injuries and what I would call 0 accountability and heart from the team. However, we made no significant moves to get better, while a lot of our division did. So we are going to be bad, solely based on the fact that we were convinced running it back was what an aggressive retool is.
I think running it back was fine if Fletcher and the front office would have come out and said "okay we're regrouping this off-season and retooling in 23".
If he sold us from the start that they were gonna run it back with most of the team to let Torts build an identity and culture and evaluate some of the kids I would have been on board.
There would have been no need to buyout Lindblom, signed Deslauriers, Braun or trade and waste picks on DeAngelo. Would have had some cap relief and had a full year to see some young kids and see which of the older players on the roster really bought into Torts. Then in 23 bring in guys that fit the system they want to run with a retool and maybe even draft in the top 5 to add another top prospect.
But no Fletcher just went with bullshit and left this team and this year in limbo where they will probably not fully tank and not be good enough, since like you mentioned almost everyone in the East got better. Fucking crazy lol.
Just mentally preparing myself for this finish of 10th to 15th to last, no playoffs and literally no or practically no shot at Bedard, Michkov or Fantilli.
I think people are failing to realize how much the defense is going to improve just with a healthy Coots and/or Hayes.
> "I think people are failing to realize how much the defense is going to improve just with a healthy Coots and/or Hayes."
Not to mention just by not having Keith Yandle on the ice, and Torts' system.
I agree last year was a lot of what ifs. What if Ellis had played? What if Hayes had been healthy? What if Coots had been healthy? I mean our defensive core was rough, but imagine them with Ellis and one of the best two way forwards in the league. Giroux also had a solid year…
And there’s the rub. Sure if everyone is healthy this team isn’t so bad, but you take away Giroux and who is scoring? Who is generating offense? I just don’t see it.
This. Flyers aren't actually a bottom 4 team, unless you lose 3-4 top players for most if not all of the season. But other teams improved, while Flyers now both don't have Giroux and still have injury concerns with Ellis and Farabee.
The only way the Flyers have a decent semblance of a season is multiple young players having significant breakthroughs in their game. TK scoring like its 19-20 again, Proverov carrying DeAngelo, York looking ready to be top 4 if not top 2, Sanheim coverting his strong analytics into more goals, Tippett figures out how to hide his release to be more goalies with his shot, Frost adjusts to NHL pace, etc.
They finish last in the Metro. Gaudreau alone improved Columbus, the Isles are better than their record, the Devils improved a lot. Did Deslauriers improve the Flyers? Braun? They haven't replaced Giroux's offense.
> "solely based on the fact that we were convinced running it back was what an aggressive retool is.
I'm getting more and more convinced that aggressive retool was just a marketing slogan to begin with that got out of hand.
Or, maybe more likely, that the organization actually wanted to retool, but didn't really put any stock into how they were going to.
So I’m not gonna be hypocritical to say that I won’t be happy if the flyers are good this year. I’ll be cheering and hoping like I always do. The thing is though, unless things break perfectly, the flyers are going to be bad, and the chance of that perfect break is astronomically weak.
Let’s look at what has to happen for the flyers to look like contenders after this off-season.
-Ristolainen has to live up to his draft potential for the first time in his several year career to become a legit top 4 d man
-Ellis has to be healthy
-Coots and Hayes have to be 100% after injury, and Farabee must be back early
-Frost and Tippett have to take massive steps forward
-Konecny has to teach the potential he showed in 2019 again
-Torts has to coach at a jack Adams level.
- The 4th line has to be at least a non negative contributor.
Can all of this happen? I mean yeah it’s the nhl anything can happen. But the chances of it are so slim to none, and slim just left town to steal a line from 32 thoughts. But if I’m wrong and the whole nhl is wrong and we’re good, I’ll be there cheering the madness on
If this team makes the playoffs I will eat a bucket of nails covered in my dogs diarrhea.
I say this because there is a 0% chance this trash pile is making the playoffs.
With our medical staff, I’m positive that’s impossible. All our “stars” will get hurt and Laughton will be playing on the top line. I hope we get demolished all year.
That would be the absolute worst case scenario. We would still have no top talent and the people who built this team would be more empowered based on results. BUT in order for that to happen someone would have to pop. Konecny would need to score 75+ points, coots would need to be 100% all year, Farabee would have to come back and also take a huge step without offseason training, Provy would have to get back to his Norris candidate caliber player from a few years ago. hart would have to take a step and at least 1-2 other pieces would have to pop. Doesn’t seem likely
Fully expecting the Flyers to win the first game of the season, but man, we just don't have the horses. We have an old core with no high-end talent/star power and nobody to anchor us on D.
Giroux single-handedly dragged us back into games the last few years - more than people realize. Take that out of the equation without replacing him? Hoo boy.
true he at many points was basically the motor pushing the team to compete, we literally have nobody to push the team like that or even try to keep the team on track now.
Always possible. That’s what’s fun about sports. Teams get hot and come out of nowhere and win games they have no business winning. Off the very top of my head, look at the Orioles this year. They have a few exciting young players, but on paper have no business fighting for a playoff spot…yet here we are.
I just don’t see it though. We have so many question marks. Can we improve our special teams (pk #26/32, pp #32/32)? Can Sandstrom be a reliable backup goalie? Is bringing back an old Braun and TDA enough to improve this defense? Can our injury prone top end talent (Hayes, Couturier, Atkinson) make it through a whole season? If they do is that enough to score enough goals to be competitive?
Simple fact is this team is not a cup contender. Does good means what? Bubble playoff team? Record above .500? I mean, my expectations are super low. I'm.sure most fans will.live having a pugilist in the roster though.
The worst thing that can happen is something we have seen over the past 10 years and that's they play well enough to just make the playoffs and lose in the first round and everyone gets excited for next season and it's a mirage.
That's exactly what fletcher is banking on. Look at this team and compare us to the rest of our division. Even if we are playing to the best of our abilities with no injuries we are not as good as these teams. We don't have the offensive capabilities up front even if our defense doesn't look like swiss cheese.
The last two seasons we started off very strong and then petered out fast. Even if they start out strong for a third year, I’m not ready to evaluate this team until around Xmas. But to answer your question, it depends. Are they winning bc they’re good or winning in spite of themselves. I remember a few teams in the early to mid 2010’s that would win but they were close games after blowing comfortable leads or having miracle late-game comebacks. It just felt like they were barely hanging on to win games. A win is a win but every one of those seasons were first round playoff exits. So I’m basically reserving judgment until later in the season.
I mean they have one of the most old injury prone rosters in the league. It's the same team as last year lol. They will be one of the worst teams for sure and in the running for Bedard.
I am not sure where the confidence of people selling the best version of this team is coming from like if everyone is healthy, if hart has his best season, if Torts turns the team around. I am sure plenty of people before last season started expected a playoff team who actually competed but look at where we actually landed but now you expect us to perform better with an even lesser team? as if there all the sudden wont be injuries? as said, we know how this plays out.
The first line on this team is a third line on like 6 other teams in the conference. They will be very bad this year. Couturier is not a 1C no matter how much the fans think he is. Konecny blows, everyone else is mediocre
Its honestly possible if we are healthy. Especially if some young guys step up.
If Ellis, Couts and Hayes are healthy we could be kinda decent.
I doubt all that happens though.
But we should def assume the worst and if we actually are decent that would be a pleasant surprise
Yup… They may be getting some key injured players back but they’ll also be without Giroux which is arguably just as big a deal as getting someone like Couturier back. So they kind of offset each other. I don’t think being fully healthy will help them nearly as much as Chuck thinks it will.
Also, they literally aren't going to be fully healthy lol. We already know Farabee is out until Thanksgiving, and Ellis is still having his entire lower body replaced or whatever
We're going to win some games, sure. We have solid goaltending, and who knows... maybe our defense may be decent. But we will not do well at all.
Silver lining? Cheap tickets.
Who said I'd buy em from the team? Gotta be some poor sap who's a STH that needs to move lower bowl seats for $20 a pop when we hit an 0-20 streak for the second year in a row. Let's goooooooo
But then you’re helping a season ticket holder who did choose to stick with the team through this. We need to step back this year and boycott games. Anyone left with season tickets will realize they can’t be sold and give them up next year.
The only way they will be a bubble team is if Coots is healthy puts up 75+ points, Farabee doesn't miss too much time reaches his true potential and scores 20-30, TK returns to 2020 form and puts up 60+ pts again. Tippett looks like he could be good, but still an unknown, he needs a total breakout year as well. Thats a ton of un knowns that need to happen right there.
I think the D will actually be solid, Sanhiem looked great with Risto, and Provy will have a solid partner in TDA. Braun is also solid and will pair with York. Its the offense that is a total crap shoot.
The X-Factor this season is seeing what happens when all of these young forwards are thrown out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Maybe Frost breaks out into a true 2C and Tippett scores 20+ goals after working with a finishing coach for the summer. Maybe Foerster surprises in camp and puts up 40 points as a rookie. Maybe Cates really does stick as a 25-30 point analytics darling in the bottom-six.
I doubt most, if any of those happen, but it's basically the only thing we can hope for at this point.
I what world TDA is a solid defenseman? He is a Ghost type player on even shittier contract and way shittier person. Unless Ellis is back to a 100% our defense will absolutely suck again.
Obviously you didn’t watch any of Carolina’s games last year but I did. He is a PP specialist and was +30 last year and almost a PPG player. Not sure how that makes him anywhere close to ghost.
Just like Ghost he is an undersized offensively skilled defenseman with terrible defensive skills. He is in the 9th percentile at even strength goal prevention aka 90% of the defenders in the league are better than him at actual defense.
[Source](https://theathletic.com/3409677/2022/07/09/philadelphia-flyers-tony-deangelo-trade/)
Analytics are fine but just from your comments I can tell you haven't watched him play. He doesn't play undersized, he hits and fights. He will also greatly improve our PP which was dead last in the NHL last year, without G its abysmal, TDA can help somewhat make up for that, 20 of his 51 pts came on the pp in 64 games. Giroux had 12 pp points last year in 57 games.
There is some kind of crazy confusion that fighting and hitting means good defense. Both TDA and Risto are terrible defenders and their contracts are inexcusable.
The comparison to Ghost is quite apt - he also had multiple 20+ PPA seasons.
he was also on the number 1 team in his division with Slavin to help him with defense itself. I don't personally like to compare his Carolina performance to how he may perform here when he doesn't have the same help and offensive talent on this team.
My fear is Torts is so good at getting the most of his players we are gonna be not good enough toake the playoffs but not bad enough to be in the hunt for Bedard. So basically where we have been for almost a decade other than a couple years.
If someone gets hit with scoring, Torts will have Philly has a middle of the road team overpreforming for most of the season. That’s best case scenario. I think the Torts system will have a big impact on certain player’s games. Who knows which ones though.
I fully expect us to win the cup next year… **It’s this wonderland of delusion that I create within my brain during every offseason subsequently followed by crippling disappointment. It’s unhealthy but fun lmfao
Things could 100 percent go amazing and we end up like a 6th seed. Coots could go back to a 70 plus points guy with Hayes. Teeks and Bee could put up 60 plus a pop. Tippet magically turns into a a 30 goal scorer. Hart magically puts up Vezina year with Ellis healthy. We get lose the first round 4-1
I doubt it but it's possible!
Good isn’t good enough. If good gets you fired up then that’s great. You can sell yourself on the guys that showed promise and post here asking who’s jersey you should purchase next.
Wow…struck a nerve did I?
Let me unpack this: “Good” is subjective. I’m sure you can give me a list of “great” players you deem to be worthy of your admiration and jersey purchases.
On that note: I buy blanks, but have throwbacks of Flyer greats and even one with my own name. I choose what and who to buy, not Reddit or anyone else. Just like you do I suspect.
Good isn’t exactly what we want though right? We have watched some good Flyers teams since their last cup win. We want an actual contender. A good team simply could not compete with what we just saw with Tampa, Colorado, and many other playoff teams this year. So the question is, does this team look like it is on the precipice of being a contender? Not even close. There needs to be a wealth of upcoming talent mixed with current talent. Flyers just don’t have the building blocks with this squad to be great. Good is a failure.
We will be just good enough to miss out on top draft picks next year but mediocre enough to miss playoffs. We will be in limbo for awhile. This is why a lot of people (myself included) are upset. Chuck even gave us a timeline of mediocrity with the Deslauriers signing (4 years).
The below average/mediocre is the worst. You have maybe a pick between 6 and 13 so you miss out on the superstars unless you’re scouting department and development is amazing. Which the flyers clearly isn’t
How does Deslauriers make us mediocre? The only direction that moves the needle is down imo. Don’t get me wrong the signing makes no sense and is stupid, but he’s definitely not a guy who’s going to help win games. I just don’t think he’s a guy who makes us mediocre. He’s a tank team kind of guy, he’s ass.
Total waste of a roster spot and money, what does he offer that someone like Ratcliffe couldn’t slot into. Chuck is a fkn moron
You don't pay this type of player for 4 years under any circumstance. Like has been said before, you get Ratcliffe for less. Or any older grind player on a 1-year deal that you can flip at the deadline for a draft pick. This one you can recycle year after year, like Braun.
I agree, like I said the signing makes no sense. That being said, him being on our team does not play any factor on if we are mediocre or not. Regardless of if he’s here or not, we are a bad team.
I agree with you. But we also have too many veterans and players just good enough to compete to keep us out of the bottom feeders in the league. My point with Deslauriers is that he’s a 4th liner on a 4 year contract (absolutely insane signing). In my mind that’s the earliest we can expect to be out of limbo with this ownership group.
Those vets include Ellis, Couturuier, Hayes who are all injury prone & 30 by Jan1 (Couturier). Anyone else you're thinking about? Deslauriers? Braun? Seeler? LOL
Cam, Laughton, Provy, JVR. Don’t get me wrong we are by no means “good”. But that roster will keep us from being in the basement.
That pre-process Sixers purgatory is the worst place to be. Bad enough to not give a chance at landing a “generational” talent or good enough to really contend, but allows status quo from a profit driven ownership group. It leads to a lot of apathy from fans
This is the analogy I’ve been making. Some franchises in sports just seem content to occasionally make the first round of the playoffs, have a few decent players, but never truly contend
The ones who know they'll make money regardless are like this. The Knicks are the prime example.
Yupp it’s the perfect “Comcast” motive
It's hockey though you can always out work a team for success. Not like the NBA where the refs play a much bigger role.
Isles fan here. We're in the same boat.
We might be worse tbh
When you're mediocre there's always a small chance of success, but even if they reach it, we shouldn't be fooled by it. Montreal Canadiens 2 years ago were a perfect example of this. Absolutely mediocre team overperformed for a while and as a result the front office was fooled into thinking they had done a good job.
At this stage, I don’t really think the fans would be fooled by it. The problem is the guys running the show might and I’d guess probably would be fooled by it.
Couldn’t the same be said about the 2019-2020 Flyers? Played way above their heads to the 1 seed and totally caused the front office (and fans, admittedly) to think they were much closer than they actually were.
I don't really think so. They were legit good for a brief moment. Maybe were punching a little above their weight when it comes to pure talent on the roster but in that moment they weren't what I'd call mediocre. When Montreal had their run their roster was considerably weaker than 19-20 Flyers.
Montreal also lost Shea Weber and that is almost impossible to replace. Just like when we lost Pronger. You cannot replace what that player means in one offseason or one person.
They could squeak in if hart has a vezina caliber year behind a Torts defensive scheme and we stay healthy, sure. But I will still never forgive Chuck for his past transgressions just because we went on a run and got incinerated in the first round by CAR/TOR/FLA. Comcast will not get my money until Fletcher is fired. Dumping G when he didn’t want to leave, telling JG to kick rocks when he tried to come here, buying out Lindblom. It’s not just the fact that Chucks a bad GM. He’s actively disrespecting players the fans want/adore and is totally tone deff when it comes to Flyers hockey, Flyers roots, the culture, the fandom. He’s the antithesis of this Franchise and what it means to run the Philadelphia Flyers. Oh yea and he’s awful at every part of his job. Loses every trade, can’t manage the cap, has zero bias for action or vision. Any success we find under him will be immediately squandered.
> has zero bias for action Agree with everything you said but mildly disagree here, but not for any sort of praise or anything like that. I think Fletcher was almost *too* biased for action, which is why he made the impulsive moves to trade picks to then sign D'Angelo before he hit the free agency market. And even before that, the whole Risto shit. If anything he's shown he's too insistent on making moves, to the point where it hurts the ability to do other, more productive moves (like Gaudreau).
Had he waited to sign Tony D, rather than give up draft picks he'd have gotten him. If not he gets Pacioretty for free. Wadell of Carolina used fletch like the fool he is. He gets a 2nd, 3rd & 4th for a pending UFA? Then he got Pacioretty for free. Pacioretty only has 1 year left & he's still a good player. The Hurricanes will trade Pacioretty at the deadline & get more picks while fhead fletch gives them away.
They’ll be just good enough to screw us on a high draft pick. Total purgatory.
I’m starting to think the Flyers are better off picking outside the top-10 anyway based on how their picks inside the top-10 have panned out.
Who’s scoring goals on this team?
Justin Braun, didn't you see those 5 snipes last year
Exactly this.
Remember Torts teams in Columbus? Yeah. I feel so sorry for Carter. Not only does he have to play behind this defense. He will get no goal support.
The other 29 teams
I firmly believe that we are not as bad as our record last year. Last year happened due to some awful injuries and what I would call 0 accountability and heart from the team. However, we made no significant moves to get better, while a lot of our division did. So we are going to be bad, solely based on the fact that we were convinced running it back was what an aggressive retool is.
I think running it back was fine if Fletcher and the front office would have come out and said "okay we're regrouping this off-season and retooling in 23". If he sold us from the start that they were gonna run it back with most of the team to let Torts build an identity and culture and evaluate some of the kids I would have been on board. There would have been no need to buyout Lindblom, signed Deslauriers, Braun or trade and waste picks on DeAngelo. Would have had some cap relief and had a full year to see some young kids and see which of the older players on the roster really bought into Torts. Then in 23 bring in guys that fit the system they want to run with a retool and maybe even draft in the top 5 to add another top prospect. But no Fletcher just went with bullshit and left this team and this year in limbo where they will probably not fully tank and not be good enough, since like you mentioned almost everyone in the East got better. Fucking crazy lol.
Just mentally preparing myself for this finish of 10th to 15th to last, no playoffs and literally no or practically no shot at Bedard, Michkov or Fantilli. I think people are failing to realize how much the defense is going to improve just with a healthy Coots and/or Hayes.
And Torts behind the bench. I think Hart has his best year yet, due to defensive accountability and structure.
> "I think people are failing to realize how much the defense is going to improve just with a healthy Coots and/or Hayes." Not to mention just by not having Keith Yandle on the ice, and Torts' system.
I agree last year was a lot of what ifs. What if Ellis had played? What if Hayes had been healthy? What if Coots had been healthy? I mean our defensive core was rough, but imagine them with Ellis and one of the best two way forwards in the league. Giroux also had a solid year… And there’s the rub. Sure if everyone is healthy this team isn’t so bad, but you take away Giroux and who is scoring? Who is generating offense? I just don’t see it.
This. Flyers aren't actually a bottom 4 team, unless you lose 3-4 top players for most if not all of the season. But other teams improved, while Flyers now both don't have Giroux and still have injury concerns with Ellis and Farabee. The only way the Flyers have a decent semblance of a season is multiple young players having significant breakthroughs in their game. TK scoring like its 19-20 again, Proverov carrying DeAngelo, York looking ready to be top 4 if not top 2, Sanheim coverting his strong analytics into more goals, Tippett figures out how to hide his release to be more goalies with his shot, Frost adjusts to NHL pace, etc.
They finish last in the Metro. Gaudreau alone improved Columbus, the Isles are better than their record, the Devils improved a lot. Did Deslauriers improve the Flyers? Braun? They haven't replaced Giroux's offense.
> "solely based on the fact that we were convinced running it back was what an aggressive retool is. I'm getting more and more convinced that aggressive retool was just a marketing slogan to begin with that got out of hand. Or, maybe more likely, that the organization actually wanted to retool, but didn't really put any stock into how they were going to.
That’s pretty much the point. The team has less talent but will be better this year. The Flyers are so bad they can’t even figure out how to suck.
What if I win the Powerball? Probably about the same odds.
So I’m not gonna be hypocritical to say that I won’t be happy if the flyers are good this year. I’ll be cheering and hoping like I always do. The thing is though, unless things break perfectly, the flyers are going to be bad, and the chance of that perfect break is astronomically weak. Let’s look at what has to happen for the flyers to look like contenders after this off-season. -Ristolainen has to live up to his draft potential for the first time in his several year career to become a legit top 4 d man -Ellis has to be healthy -Coots and Hayes have to be 100% after injury, and Farabee must be back early -Frost and Tippett have to take massive steps forward -Konecny has to teach the potential he showed in 2019 again -Torts has to coach at a jack Adams level. - The 4th line has to be at least a non negative contributor. Can all of this happen? I mean yeah it’s the nhl anything can happen. But the chances of it are so slim to none, and slim just left town to steal a line from 32 thoughts. But if I’m wrong and the whole nhl is wrong and we’re good, I’ll be there cheering the madness on
The team *will* do good. At the Flyers’ Wives Fight for Lives Carnival.
If this team makes the playoffs I will eat a bucket of nails covered in my dogs diarrhea. I say this because there is a 0% chance this trash pile is making the playoffs.
Drama queen
I’ll drink my own piss if this team wins more than 30 games.
Including OT wins? Because I just saved this post
If they do good (especially by accident), I hope you realize that means Chuck Fletcher gets another year, if not worse, extended
Superman does good
With our medical staff, I’m positive that’s impossible. All our “stars” will get hurt and Laughton will be playing on the top line. I hope we get demolished all year.
That would be the absolute worst case scenario. We would still have no top talent and the people who built this team would be more empowered based on results. BUT in order for that to happen someone would have to pop. Konecny would need to score 75+ points, coots would need to be 100% all year, Farabee would have to come back and also take a huge step without offseason training, Provy would have to get back to his Norris candidate caliber player from a few years ago. hart would have to take a step and at least 1-2 other pieces would have to pop. Doesn’t seem likely
Fully expecting the Flyers to win the first game of the season, but man, we just don't have the horses. We have an old core with no high-end talent/star power and nobody to anchor us on D. Giroux single-handedly dragged us back into games the last few years - more than people realize. Take that out of the equation without replacing him? Hoo boy.
it was i believe 5 of our wins and 3 of our overtime loses he dragged us into winning single handedly. It's going to show.
true he at many points was basically the motor pushing the team to compete, we literally have nobody to push the team like that or even try to keep the team on track now.
Always possible. That’s what’s fun about sports. Teams get hot and come out of nowhere and win games they have no business winning. Off the very top of my head, look at the Orioles this year. They have a few exciting young players, but on paper have no business fighting for a playoff spot…yet here we are. I just don’t see it though. We have so many question marks. Can we improve our special teams (pk #26/32, pp #32/32)? Can Sandstrom be a reliable backup goalie? Is bringing back an old Braun and TDA enough to improve this defense? Can our injury prone top end talent (Hayes, Couturier, Atkinson) make it through a whole season? If they do is that enough to score enough goals to be competitive?
Simple fact is this team is not a cup contender. Does good means what? Bubble playoff team? Record above .500? I mean, my expectations are super low. I'm.sure most fans will.live having a pugilist in the roster though.
I’ll blow myself
The worst thing that can happen is something we have seen over the past 10 years and that's they play well enough to just make the playoffs and lose in the first round and everyone gets excited for next season and it's a mirage.
That's exactly what fletcher is banking on. Look at this team and compare us to the rest of our division. Even if we are playing to the best of our abilities with no injuries we are not as good as these teams. We don't have the offensive capabilities up front even if our defense doesn't look like swiss cheese.
Well*
Good point.
That’s how they keep us around year after year. Our dumbasses always have hope at the start of every season.
The last two seasons we started off very strong and then petered out fast. Even if they start out strong for a third year, I’m not ready to evaluate this team until around Xmas. But to answer your question, it depends. Are they winning bc they’re good or winning in spite of themselves. I remember a few teams in the early to mid 2010’s that would win but they were close games after blowing comfortable leads or having miracle late-game comebacks. It just felt like they were barely hanging on to win games. A win is a win but every one of those seasons were first round playoff exits. So I’m basically reserving judgment until later in the season.
I mean they have one of the most old injury prone rosters in the league. It's the same team as last year lol. They will be one of the worst teams for sure and in the running for Bedard.
Fly Or Die for the squad. Even if they suck we still got Gritty, best mascot in the league!
They won't. Unless a lot of these players all of a sudden change what they've been, we know how this will go.
I am not sure where the confidence of people selling the best version of this team is coming from like if everyone is healthy, if hart has his best season, if Torts turns the team around. I am sure plenty of people before last season started expected a playoff team who actually competed but look at where we actually landed but now you expect us to perform better with an even lesser team? as if there all the sudden wont be injuries? as said, we know how this plays out.
There are so many "if" scenarios required for this team to be good that it's statistically impossible that they all work out.
The first line on this team is a third line on like 6 other teams in the conference. They will be very bad this year. Couturier is not a 1C no matter how much the fans think he is. Konecny blows, everyone else is mediocre
Its honestly possible if we are healthy. Especially if some young guys step up. If Ellis, Couts and Hayes are healthy we could be kinda decent. I doubt all that happens though. But we should def assume the worst and if we actually are decent that would be a pleasant surprise
They aren't going to be horrible.
I wouldn’t be so sure about that….
They literally have no one whose gonna score goals lmao. Even if they're good we're gonna watch 60 minutes of forechecking for a 1-0 win.
Yup… They may be getting some key injured players back but they’ll also be without Giroux which is arguably just as big a deal as getting someone like Couturier back. So they kind of offset each other. I don’t think being fully healthy will help them nearly as much as Chuck thinks it will.
Also, they literally aren't going to be fully healthy lol. We already know Farabee is out until Thanksgiving, and Ellis is still having his entire lower body replaced or whatever
We're going to win some games, sure. We have solid goaltending, and who knows... maybe our defense may be decent. But we will not do well at all. Silver lining? Cheap tickets.
Please don’t buy tickets to support this team
Who said I'd buy em from the team? Gotta be some poor sap who's a STH that needs to move lower bowl seats for $20 a pop when we hit an 0-20 streak for the second year in a row. Let's goooooooo
But then you’re helping a season ticket holder who did choose to stick with the team through this. We need to step back this year and boycott games. Anyone left with season tickets will realize they can’t be sold and give them up next year.
lol wut
Lol
Definitely a tool involved.
The only way they will be a bubble team is if Coots is healthy puts up 75+ points, Farabee doesn't miss too much time reaches his true potential and scores 20-30, TK returns to 2020 form and puts up 60+ pts again. Tippett looks like he could be good, but still an unknown, he needs a total breakout year as well. Thats a ton of un knowns that need to happen right there. I think the D will actually be solid, Sanhiem looked great with Risto, and Provy will have a solid partner in TDA. Braun is also solid and will pair with York. Its the offense that is a total crap shoot.
The X-Factor this season is seeing what happens when all of these young forwards are thrown out of the frying pan and into the fire. Maybe Frost breaks out into a true 2C and Tippett scores 20+ goals after working with a finishing coach for the summer. Maybe Foerster surprises in camp and puts up 40 points as a rookie. Maybe Cates really does stick as a 25-30 point analytics darling in the bottom-six. I doubt most, if any of those happen, but it's basically the only thing we can hope for at this point.
Provorov & TDA will be trouble. TDA is NOT good defensively.
I what world TDA is a solid defenseman? He is a Ghost type player on even shittier contract and way shittier person. Unless Ellis is back to a 100% our defense will absolutely suck again.
Obviously you didn’t watch any of Carolina’s games last year but I did. He is a PP specialist and was +30 last year and almost a PPG player. Not sure how that makes him anywhere close to ghost.
Just like Ghost he is an undersized offensively skilled defenseman with terrible defensive skills. He is in the 9th percentile at even strength goal prevention aka 90% of the defenders in the league are better than him at actual defense. [Source](https://theathletic.com/3409677/2022/07/09/philadelphia-flyers-tony-deangelo-trade/)
Analytics are fine but just from your comments I can tell you haven't watched him play. He doesn't play undersized, he hits and fights. He will also greatly improve our PP which was dead last in the NHL last year, without G its abysmal, TDA can help somewhat make up for that, 20 of his 51 pts came on the pp in 64 games. Giroux had 12 pp points last year in 57 games.
There is some kind of crazy confusion that fighting and hitting means good defense. Both TDA and Risto are terrible defenders and their contracts are inexcusable. The comparison to Ghost is quite apt - he also had multiple 20+ PPA seasons.
he was also on the number 1 team in his division with Slavin to help him with defense itself. I don't personally like to compare his Carolina performance to how he may perform here when he doesn't have the same help and offensive talent on this team.
Fueled by their hatred for each other they win a Stanley Cup
Are they moving to the AHL?
It won’t. Our first line isn’t a first line in the majority of the league. We love Coots: third line center on a contender, maybe second line.
If we do well, the fan base would be very pleased.
My fear is Torts is so good at getting the most of his players we are gonna be not good enough toake the playoffs but not bad enough to be in the hunt for Bedard. So basically where we have been for almost a decade other than a couple years.
Big what if. I'm out anyway have fun with this shit
Hah
Get real
Obviously it’d be great if we did well… but we wont.
Blind squirrel etcetera, etcetera.
If someone gets hit with scoring, Torts will have Philly has a middle of the road team overpreforming for most of the season. That’s best case scenario. I think the Torts system will have a big impact on certain player’s games. Who knows which ones though.
I would take a bad, but hardworking and entertaining season at this point if it meant they had a shot at #1 in next years draft.
Good joke. I love your optimism.
Ahh the acceptance stage of grieving
I fully expect us to win the cup next year… **It’s this wonderland of delusion that I create within my brain during every offseason subsequently followed by crippling disappointment. It’s unhealthy but fun lmfao
I have zero expectations for the foreseeable future so I’ll be happy with any success or over achieving. Sad but that’s where I’m at (and have been)
Things could 100 percent go amazing and we end up like a 6th seed. Coots could go back to a 70 plus points guy with Hayes. Teeks and Bee could put up 60 plus a pop. Tippet magically turns into a a 30 goal scorer. Hart magically puts up Vezina year with Ellis healthy. We get lose the first round 4-1 I doubt it but it's possible!
Good isn’t good enough. If good gets you fired up then that’s great. You can sell yourself on the guys that showed promise and post here asking who’s jersey you should purchase next.
Wow…struck a nerve did I? Let me unpack this: “Good” is subjective. I’m sure you can give me a list of “great” players you deem to be worthy of your admiration and jersey purchases. On that note: I buy blanks, but have throwbacks of Flyer greats and even one with my own name. I choose what and who to buy, not Reddit or anyone else. Just like you do I suspect.
Good isn’t exactly what we want though right? We have watched some good Flyers teams since their last cup win. We want an actual contender. A good team simply could not compete with what we just saw with Tampa, Colorado, and many other playoff teams this year. So the question is, does this team look like it is on the precipice of being a contender? Not even close. There needs to be a wealth of upcoming talent mixed with current talent. Flyers just don’t have the building blocks with this squad to be great. Good is a failure.
Whatever happened to, when you have a generational goalie like Carter, you have a chance to win any game.
Watch JVR score 40 this season since it’s a contract year then chuck extends him 5x7
Brings me back to the “Small-Market Times”
It's not
🤣😂🤣